I'm Alexandra to thank this and I'm one of the hosts of national I've used ordered the pretty podcast by CO host David French and I discuss all the latest in political news and especially the intersections between politics, culture and faith. We approach these topics with a focus on the constitution and the importance of our founding values and every once in a while, you can even catch us talking about are clashing views on sports and pop culture. You can listen to ordered liberty at National review, dot com or subscribe on Itunes. Google play Fisher tune in or whatever else you get your pact gas tromp in IRAN, HAWK or in IRAN Dove and are we running torture centres at our

border will discuss all this more on. This week's edition of the editors Onrush Larry, I'm joined, is always by the right. Honourable Charles W Cook, the pride of Tennessee, David, French and the notorious boo do Michael Brendan Dorothy you listening to a national view. Podcast our sponsors this week are equip and door dash more about them in due course. If you is podcast on national, you dot, com, were delighted to have you been If you and better for us, he made his party or feed at I tunes Google play sticker. Spotify or tune in, and if you like what you hear here, please sit are giving us a five star review on Itunes. If don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said anything and speaking of review is, we got one in the Sunday Times last. Again that ran little review, Jorce Man, if you want to think of it, that way of this very podcast, it said the editor

hosted by the macho editors Ashura view. This weekly show gives an insight into the minds of the right wing elite and trauma America, we are all frankly, a little puzzled by them your reference, but I think it's clearly because Charlie dawned tactical gear and went and took care the prairie dog threat out in the bad lands that got us that reference author You very much Charley was didn't work out very well for the prey dogs, but it worked out quite well for us you're, welcome, So you you had a. I imagine a nice an ice moment feeling good about President try when he pulled up short on this strike where I guess, there's some back and for three says the planes weren't really in the air, but has been reporting that the planes were. the air prepared to carry it out very limited retaliatory attacks forcing tell on the Iranians after the shot down a you,

drawn and tromp called it off, supposedly because it got word late that there would be a hundred fifty rainy and casualties was make a sound like a pretty big strike, but that was his purported reason for stopping short. How encouraged or discouraged for you by this act well in the words of every cliched foreign policy pungent and commentator, I'm just going to say this is the moment. Donald Trump became president of the United States and the no disrespect for my president listen. It was right, I think, to pull back if this attack would have caused a hundred fifty casualties, I think

one of the things is, I dont know if its intention on Donald Trump part to play the kind of madmen theory of the presidency, but it is difficult enough for me. directions to figure out what America I ran policy is in the past few months. I can't imagine how differ, hold. It is for iranian to figure out what american policy is. And so I am not sure how This strike would have been received in IRAN if it would have precipitated M Ryan going full out in for future retaliation which they, have not done yet. I mean they. They certainly create problems for us. In our allies across the region, but they could do a lot more and a lot more, that's damaging and they do not yet I am hopeful to see longer a better settlement with- or I worry that I am one of the few

people on the right that hadn't a thing or two. save for the IRAN deal just as a practical matter. Minutes wasn't treaties are the president had every right to pull us out of it, but I think pulling out of it and in approving the hardliners correct that America is not good to its word in the Middle EAST. We brought Gaddafi in from the cold and then maybe almost immediately started bombing him. We started ran toward the table and then immediately ourselves pulled away I was. I was happy to see this, but I can't celebrate too much because, of course the president's policy could change in a week or two. He is also since, while saying that hundred and fifty casualties, bothered his conscious too much in response to the downing of an unmanned robot

He has also said that we could retaliate in a way that is extreme and painful. So I. I'm waiting and watching the show, like everyone else, so David's isotopes says here, is terrible shouldn't, be this far down the road and rail. Never mind is kind of bizarre that he would supposedly gotten the estimate of casualties it at the end, rather than is somewhere in, getting while he's making the initial decision, and I think we can stipulate that if Obama had had done such thing that the right would have gone absolutely crazy I mean I've savoured hitting hitting IRAN after the theme, the last two tanker attacks. so I thought it would have been specially just fight after the drawn attack But then there was a little. You know whispering back to my mind. They really seem to be goading us into some sort of yeah up pinprick retaliate, or maybe a little bit more, so maybe on that basis, this isn't

a good idea, but where are you on the presence and on the substance? Yes, I think you know that I think I wrote this that you would rather see a good decision. Good decision made waiting took a coherent strategy with a meaningful deliberative process. But if you're gonna have a good decision made in an atmosphere of inconsistency in chaos, at least it's still a good decision was a good decision not to strike. I think a few things are happening here. At the same time, I think first, if anyone is arguing that well cancellation was sort of a way of saying. Oh look Mullahs of IRAN's look, how close you came to a mighty strike, the let's be clear, cancel the pinprick, I mean that's what he daddy, cancel the strike on but we're gonna be. According to press reports, three targets radar rain.

Installations missile batteries would make no real material difference to the Iranian AIR defence system would make no real material difference to the iranian military and would inflict casualties that the mullahs, just frankly, don't care about at all, so he wasn't, for two calling, often almighty wallop. What he was calling off was a and escalation escalation that I think, would have been dangerous is unnecessary to our overall strategy and one that, quite frankly, I I'm think how can people are ready for him and I think we need to go we're we're not tingling here with a meaningless power were certainly tangle, with the power of a nation that less powerful than us. But we gotta be you're here in one of the things that one of the problems we have had in recent war decisions? Is we ve acknowledged, are incredible military strength and we ve not acknowledge all too often the down side risk, and what

have here, and I'm just gonna keep beating the drum on this, and until we get some realistic public commentary, an enormous degree of downside risks in a military confrontation with I ran. I ran, has the ability to hit american bases directly in the Middle EAST, with its very large, so and rocket force it has. Globally at its Beck and call certainly under its influence- and I ran a coalition. She ain't militias that we know from bitter experience in the operation Iraqi Freedom are very deadly at deadly foes that are difficult to bring to hear and we have far fewer troops in theatre to bring them to heal I ran, has the ability to if not closed systems, if farmers substantially disrupt commerce, the strait of former days, which is one of the most important waterways in the world in which would have economic, applications that we would not be immune to, and so sorry,

circumstances. This the sort of no show in the last factor is less. We think that IRAN is just terrified at the notion of taking losses in a million. conflict. I mean this The mullahs in IRAN, Iraq WAR, took hundreds of thousands of losses, maybe according to some estimates, including wins a million or more casualties and walked, walk today, that over minds My inhuman way, the tax over minefields to preserve their Islam. revolution. So this is a different kind of foe and the last thing to keep- Uniform Mona logging too much military power is not our only leverage here. Our economic sanctions are inflicting great pain on the iranians- and it seems to me the Iranians are trying to go, does into altering the essence. altering the fundamentally altering the international perceptions, placing

themselves in the in the position of the aggrieved Party And even perhaps granting them a pretext to bust through their uranium enrichment caps under the around deal. So I haven't you Seen a strong upside argument for striking these three, these three targets overshooting down an unmanned drone and I'm seeing a lot of downside, and so he may there. I call it was a bad process, but he made the right call. the toy. One irony here is that, as of a week or so ago, story was that the intelligence might be bad about IRAN being behind these attacks in the strait is all being gin dub, because Trump is desperate to have an excuse to go to war with IRAN.

There are a lot of things going on here. We ve got make their mind up as to whether this is a good or a bad thing. There's an extent to which trumps critics well use anything to to hit him as a logo on he is ignorant. He is precious. He is running and administration, unlike any other, and memory the chains of come. DA strained. He doesn't have the same analytical approach to foreign policy that others who run for president would have brought.

I think there is also some genuine reluctance on his part to kill people. I do think that ways on Donald Trump in a way it might not on others I think he likes to appear crazy and he likes to pay a dangerous and he likes to appear unpredictable. So people have pointed out that he probably knew the supposed death toll before the ten minute mark, but he wants IRAN to think he didn't he wants around. I think he pulled it off the last minute that he could have done something, but that he chose not to that's part of Donald Trump Approach, whether works on out. He wants far leaders to consider him. An unknown variable

These things are all specific to download from the matter a great deal he's also operating within an environment of general democratic confusion. I said this In defending Obama's foreign policy to an extent, Donald Trump is confused. Donald Trump is contradictory because the american people are confused and contradictory. Donald Trump was confused during. Primaries? On the one hand, he would say Bush light us into war in Iraq. We don't need to be the world's policeman redundant to be spending all this money. Let other people pay their fair share so forth. On the other hand, he wants to bomb them.

Oblivion. Anyone touches America or kill em. All that is broadly, where Americans to Obama had to deal with that it made his foreign policy incoherent, on top of whatever personal shortcomings have, one of which was, he wasn't interested in foreign policy. Trump has to deal with it, so you end up with this odd foreign policy that is the product of outside pressures that has been delegated almost entirely to the executive branch by Congress, both formally Vivier You M, F and de facto by Congress. It simply doesn't try to regain its power

on the shoulders of a man who doesn't know a great deal. Who is unpredictable? Who wants to be seen as unpredictable and again, I think, has a certain fear of killing people. So it's difficult to know what's gonna happen I think that IRAN will make a mistake if it continues to push and push, because that confusion within the electorate and that confusion within Congress and that confusion within those who are around Trump will eventually give way to resolve and NASA S. Instinctive political animal trump will sense that and eventually he'll hit back, So, Michael, it seems as though we're heading down a path towards the IRAN deal really in earnest unravelling. Where are they

the rain, say: they're gonna breach breach this initial threshold. I think they're talking about another one and I think to be up to the trumpet trojan under they continue these various waivers nuclear activities that are a key part of this picture and if they don't they, You can end up at the U N and that the thing I could really fall apart. Then you get. The big question are the is really gonna play chicken with Trump or Are they come back to the table? What would be here your instinct, where this goes in and the biggest picture and the biggest picture I mean and the biggest picture. I think the around deal was convenient for every everyone at the time similarly than the non the parties that aren't around in the added states. One of the manages of IRAN deal was we want to post

or delay or stop the possibilities, click between IRAN and the internet, knighted states, because we ve had enough regime changes and human waves of my creation and people displacement from the Middle EAST into Europe, I e in along in the long term, I think ran, will be a nuclear power and America's not willing to go into a major and and possibly terrible war to print that that that will happen. I I am not sure that are economic sticks are enough to do more than just delay. That, inevitably, would you think of it? Yeah thing: that what we have here is a continual mismatch between IRAN's long term strategy and our continual addiction to short term strategies so far

and in that sense the IRAN deal made sense from the american short term strategy perspective and it made a tunnel sense from the iranian long term strategy perspective, soda. I ran to strengthen its economy industry term. While it once for awhile punts for some time anyway. It's ability to actually build a bomb, but when a random build a bomb in Israel on the reasons why I thought the deal was a bad deal it will build a bomb on the back of a much stronger economy. Stronger, military, etc. So from the rampant back uranium perspective. It made a tunnel sense from the Obama perspective, which sort of says hey for all the time horizon at any one in the. U S cares about weeds, stop the arabian bomb. It made a degree of effective in the way we handle these things, and so then we have a change and we switch and we switch are

how did she pretty dramatically? And whenever you do that, especially when it balls tearing up an agreement, there is a cost to it. and so now we have a strategy that I think, if it were, if you are consistent in its application, unrelenting in its application, may the ability to bear some fruit The Iranians are keenly aware of our short time horizon. So here's what I think is happening, I think I ran, is engaged in a relatively calculated set of escalation, then are designed in part to create a sense of danger and chaos to create a sense. Of risk in peril. That impacts the Eric and body politic It will lead, for example, democratic candidates to say one The things that I'm gonna do when I get back when when we get an office is, is ease tension in and under the arabian formulation. Easing tension means essentially going back to at least

form of the deal that was previously agreed to, and I think that this a very calculated move, on their part. Yes, I think they are feeling actual pain and I think that part of the calculus Well, one way to change. Our strategic situation is to make Americans feel pain and how to Americans feel pain. They feel pain when there's a sense of uncertainty and danger and chaos, and so I think that this is part of a calculated strategic decision. come with a regime that has a risk, tolerance, great. Then own risk tolerance in many ways, and I think that's one of them, one of the things that makes all of this so difficult to do. with. Is you know, although we are in we arm far more powerful than I ran? We also have a far less tolerance for risk than I ran. We have a

Lesser degree of willingness to accept casualties, to accept disruption to accept loss Then. I ran dies, and so in that disparity, even though they are the lesser power, they gained some strategic advantages in this long running confrontation and think about this. This is a country that is in Liquid more loss of life on Americans drew direct and indirect than virtually any nation in the world over the last two generations, and yet escape from it, largely unscathed, with the exception of the severe losses we inflicted on it in the tanker war in the late nineteenth eighties and its because there is a there We are always operating under different kinds of strategic pictures. And inside look at this, and I have a great degree of compassion for American decision makers and policy makers, because this is a very thorny, our very tough nut to crack.

So the the issue is- and I think anybody is hitting on something if our risk tolerance, means low for a time I ran will become a nuclear power if We change our risks, tolerance. We would have the ability to stop that, and I think that, if you're just getting back to the fundamental basics of it, if one nation is willing to risk more than another nation, regardless of the power imbalances between the two, the nation that is willing to undergo the greater risks, will often gain strategic advantages and. I think that's where we are- and I think a lot of people thought that you know when Trot came in and ease gauging inning huge amount of bluster any saying these things. Things twitter that you know, no american president is really sad sort of enormous sounding like up almost

almost Debbie Debbie EU style, bombastic boasts of ultimate destruction but then cancels the strike because its to kill a hundred and fifty people. I think that basically defines mixed messages and I think, a lot of trumps. You know international These have kindly figured him out and what they figured out is that there is a lot of boast and there isn't as much fun through or maybe no follow through it all again and that you play him in that process, and I think that that gives me some some real. concerns, but diving The bottom line give the bottom line. miss the one I just outlined in its a bipartisan problem, a problem that we ve had for ever since the iranian Revolution, and that is they play long game, there's an extremely high tolerance for risk. We play the short game and we have a low tolerance for risk and that I ran advantages over time, future

good exit question. First to you within the next six months, Trump we'll have sat down stork. Why, on one summit with president raw honey to hash this all out, yes or no? No empty? Yes, yes, sire! No, I don't think the iranian President will agree is desperately is trot, might want to do that. Yeah. The answer, I think is no, because the Iranians have every incentive to try to wait out and hope he loses, and twenty twenty and the deal gets restored, as so many or maybe all the democratic it's our promising. So before we go on, let's hear from our first sponsor this week, quip the

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HU, I p dot com, slash editors, please check it out. Its quip is a revolutionary breakthrough tooth brush and Charlie and very critical. My clip reads in the past: I hope that met your high standards for corporate most magnificent cook. Man, goodness MA, am almost in tears. All right so David Next Big topic, the border. We had the controversy that still amazingly enough rolling on now that we briefly discussed last week of- see, saying we're running concentration camps at the border. And try to justify this obvious smear by pointing to the academic definition supposedly of concentration camps, which are just no captain, have people in them.

let alone put aside any of the intentions are what are actually being used for. And we ve had some truly a disturbing reports specially around a border patrol facility and Clint Texas where lawyers went to talk to the kids, who have been there to see if the facility is in keeping with so called floor. as settlement that sets out How we can only lead to attain children very briefly, things which must be seventy two hours and only under certain conditions are supposed to be safe and sound cherry and according to his lawyers, who immediately went out and start talking to the press. Kids don't have toothbrushes, they dont tat. They dont have served not taking showers there and filthy close some others, especially second in care for a properly as some of them are being care for adult at all, as some of them were. Lawyers report,

a system word in older kids are taking care of looking after a younger kids, and this calls an explosion, over the weekend and early this week, and this facility is actually now being emptied of the kids who are being sent to an eight a chess facility but this is really been attributed to trumps, malice and twenty. A kind of punish kids make a point of how terrible things already, more funding, and it just seems to me one that would require a lot of competence. To order these all these different agencies and facilities to mistreat kids to require a vast, we're a malicious people up and down the line to carry out these order and three. The simpler explanation is incur but it's driven by a genuine crisis, and I was struck by the lawyer who talk to the new Yorker about that Clint Texas facilities they not about it before haddock

see. The hundred for there are three hundred fifty kids there when they, when they visited and never held, kids war and the lawyer referred to kids constantly being being a tree. for to day to just facility, but more more coming in, and this is obviously totally consistent with a vast flow of migrants. At the border, their overtopping, every single one of our facilities and all our capabilities. So judge Ass, which is positive, custody, kids, social order, their facilities or for so border patrol which is not a social welfare agency and doesn't have facilities built with this kind population in mind and upholding the kids for weeks at a time, and you get a lot of practices that that we shouldn't be proud of. We should be trying to change as soon as possible, but that r r d, the black spot on the record of Donald Trump. Personally, as I think so, the media was betrayed us

I think two things have to be true. At the same time, one is. We have to be able to detain unlawful immigrants upon their entry, any system, especially when you're talking about families with small children unaccompanied minors. What do you do just say? Good luck! Here's the vast interior of the United States of America find some place to live. Is just unrealistic as if, as applied in particular to children, is just flat out inhumane. So I think we have be able to have detention facilities for unlawful immigrants and those detentions, fist These have to be humane ministered to to non delicate duties of the government and the the simple fact of the matter is, There have been multiple points in the last several years and which the kind ability date the border patrol Officials, immigration officials have been overwhelmed and when we saw

in a really viral clip that went up a quorum argument where there was a trump. Yo J attorney, arguing that access to things like toothbrushes, warrant, a requirement of sick, didn't work, required under legal settlements requiring safe and sanitary conditions, always in a lot of that commentaries. That was an appeal from a case that was filed during the Obama administration Obama struggled with this as well, and he struggled mightily with it You know many of the worst of the but uncle kids in cages pictures date back from the Obama Ministry. And when you have limited resources when there is a flood of human beings into those spaces Kay. often results now that does it mean that it should result. That is the natural and inevitable result of an influx of migrants. We have known about

this problem for long enough to have resourced sufficiently to deal with it and we have it. And then you combine that with its The simple fact and I hate to say that there is a lot incompetence in the federal bureaucracy, and there are some people who are particularly when play under stress- are munitions. Leslie or unnecessarily punitive, because some of these stories at you here are of petty and wishes punishments of some of these people, these migrant, kids and famine, when they act out, and so you know this is something that in its moment, Why does when real human beings are facing real problems? looting conditions that any more, Can we find inhumane that we would find inhumane even in prisons, where people having been convicted? Felonies, though we have to act and we have to,

in a way that is consistent with the two principles that we have to be able to detain unlawful immigrants, at least for a time and the conditions have to be human and so for wine in an I'm been sparing in my criticism Trump administration. When I believe it's warranted, I was unsparing in my criticism of family separation. I do think that you can sit here and say that the federal, immigration. Officials are active, in top to bottom in and intentionally malicious manner to deter immigrants. I think they're at peace, for making that argument, but I think that that she said rich. I just don't. I don't think that's the case in the reasons why I dont think that that's the cases many of these same problems predated trump. In fact, that's the subject for litigation that predated trop. So we have to act in accordance with it

principles. I do not think and would need more evidence before. I would change my mind that this is the result of some sort of intentionally malicious punitive trump policy, this being enacted up up and down the length and breadth of the american immigration establishment Troy, what about ISM is sometimes a onwards a diversion, but it seems relevant in this instance because Obama had a migrant crisis, twenty fourteen twenty fifteen that was big biggest s and they had all exactly the same problems when this is was a that was much more favourable incline the immigration than the Trump Administration is and David refer to this viral video clip of this poor D. O J lawyer. That is just another. Why these cases, in our era of basically lying with of video clip mean very few p if any in the mainstream media pointed out that the conditions,

judge. His were were going to or not contemporary conditions, but conditions and twenty fifteen when in this case started, and this parallel is making the case that she was that soap and chief she's aren't necessary to definition of safe and sanitary, not because she doesn't think those kids should have. Such things is The technical legal argument having to do with whether judges by ad Those requirements into safe and sanitary had changed in effect. The floor as agreement, which I forget, the data but that would allow the administration to make an appeal or are avoid an appeal being blocked. I forget what but was a technical level. He meant, but it was just district distorted and was thrown in.

This narrative, this malicious mistreatment of children at the border. I loathe this practice in our culture taking lawyers to task for during their jobs. We have a system that requires people to stand up on either side of a question whether that's in a criminal trial, whether that's governments being dragged into court, it cannot work if we don't defend, the accused cannot work if the government doesn't have somebody representing its position and letter gating for it, and especially when we are dealing with provisions that need teasing out for us is one of them. This lawyer was doing her job. He will get upset when you point that out, they think you're saying I was only following orders.

But quite the opposite, actually viewer to have a system with the rule of law, at its heart you're going to have to allow lawyers to make arguments you're going to have to allow lawyers to defend people. You don't like what you think are evil you're going to have to allow Supreme Court justice is to us carpet, educators and so on and so forth. I felt strongly sorry for this lady, and I think that the people at now this, which is a left wing propaganda website, the cut it and put it out as they did, should all feel extremely guilty. The root problem. That we're looking at here is, as David says, that we have for years now been watching the border ass. One crisis After another comes away, people want to live in America, that's entirely rational some,

then consider that it is worth it to try to break into the country because they want the opportunity or because they're scared of what will happen to them if they go home. Those things are understandable. To what is also understand of all is that America should impose laws should regulate the flow should choose who at once and who does not want those two things there.

Are going to cause conflict. If we have laws, those laws are going to be enforced and should be enforced, and if we don't think that the price of enforcing those roles is worth it, then we should repeal those laws. Now there is, of course, a duty to enforce the laws in a way that is moral in a way that is kind not every failure to do so is for lack of trying. Sometimes it is for lack of resources, lack of useful directives and good old fashioned bureaucratic incompetence. The trouble we have is that we are not really debating the moment whether we should have as much immigration or a little bit more a little bit less way debating two things that make fixing this quite difficult. One is whether we should have border enforcement at all, whether it is intrinsically immoral. That is a growing position on the left and even when

It's not explicitly stated. It is implied, be Alexandria. Abkhazia, quartet, if the the are are using a specific problem and some of the scenes ve seen our problem and need to be resolved to make what is actually a categorical case that we shouldn't be enforcing the border that forcing the border is in itself wrong and she's gonna find herself in a difficult position. If a bill comes up in Congress to fix is to send more resources to clarify what is allowed and what's not because if she funds more agents more beds, different facilities, she will be accused of acquiescing in evil. I think that's a silly way of looking at it, but that is nevertheless the way that this is being looked at. The other problem is that- and this is an especially acute in the trump era- is that a lot of people who

actually know a great deal about politics, or the federal government, have discovered long standing american practices and some of them are worth complaining about. Some of them are ugly and they have assumed that those practices are the result of the unique perfidy and deliberate cruelty of the incumbent president, when in fact they are the product of ongoing problems, sometimes unavoidable problems, sometimes structural crises that have not been addressed, and this is another such example. There is a belief out there that Donald Trump is a bond villain whose

stroking his cat cackling into the night at the idea of children- being hurt that probably awesome people in America who are immorally indifferent to this- that probably awesome people in America or if some pretty terrible views towards immigration and don't really care if kids get hurt into the bargain. But the vast majority of the people in our government. The vast majority of the people in the White House in the vast majority of the people on the border are not those people. These are the wages of years of a lack of compromise and resolution on the question of immigrants. But is very, very difficult to fix it. When you have it all resolve to one man and his supposed perfidy, and when you are in the mouth, as we are, of a fight over whether we should have a border tool. So like one Aren't you you're, obviously, is

were several armed the border now family units for Central America, David pointed out you don't just wanna released people in the country, taking good luck, find someone to stay that's what's happening to them under the Trump administration you're the guy, what the bill, the war and stop all this from coming. In my understanding from talking to people yesterday to do this twenty one day, average of of how many people coming and for a while, I think of it up to four thousand five hundred a day. Now it's down to thirty five, three thousand five hundred a day and one day was, I think, two thousand seven hundred, so they think maybe the what Mexico is doing is just having some

a fat, but this has just been a extraordinary event to happen. A president who campaigned on stopping this kind of you haven't muse, there's a couple things happening wants is the specific political breakdowns happening in Central America. There is the essentially there was like a message that came down And these are so important messages, essentially that come down the chain of migration patterns that change how people act, whether they come with children

They try to sneak in legally with a coyote style arrangement or whether they cross immediately try to find an authority and ask for asylum. We ve seen lots of changes. The government unprepared to handle this huge changed as also the economy is roaring and when the economy is worrying that some a magnet for migration. However, I think I mean Charlie David spoke about the problems exhaustively, etc. The alternative that the left

offers is what exactly, I think, Charlie's right, that a yo see doesn't want to vote for court. Him quote expanding the concentration camps, which actually is the most humane thing to do, is to give more resources so that kids can be accommodated better. Some people complain about the costs that cost seven hundred fifty dollars a night for every individual and that's more than a luxury hotel, well, luxury hotel. Babysit you a luxury hotel, doesn't stop other people from beating you up and robbing you in your room, etc. Are border patrol has to do things like this and what is the alternative? Just releasing people into the country that is not a moral alternative, not only because it violates the law. Even if you want to see the law changed, it is immoral to do because

creating a kind of shadow system where people are unlawfully in the country? They are able to be exploited by scrupulous landlords, unscrupulous employers etc. That the case that conservatives into making a border hawks mean to make is a case for lawful society for equal citizenship. And it's a case. The left is abandoned just for he's, so be an eye watering appeals towards equality, but it's in we're not ensuring equal the under the law were not ensuring equality.

meaningful way. We're just saying we don't like the process of enforcing the borders, while enforcing the border is humane. Having people who live in America ACT have access to the police and courts like everyone else is humane. So I wait for humane solution gave hijacks question to you. When the history is written, who will be blamed for the border crisis, twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen Donald Trump, the Democrats, Mexico, cynical northern triangle, governments or forces beyond anyone's control, You know we always over simplified this stuff and blame whatever challenge that, at least in this,

were to medium term of history, blame whatever failures occur on the president's so for the foreseeable future, it'll beyond Trop checkup, perhaps for the foreseeable future. But I think when the history of this is written, answers everything you just sit all of them. I mean I grew Charlie. It's it's the tragic confluence of of contrary interests, institutional checks and the surprises of history all, Converging on what is a tragedy, ya think that blame will be on trumped for a very long time. Eventually, though, a decent history will be written. That points out the larger forces and the fact that our rules were totally and insane and created and sensitive for the historic in flux, in especially over the last year or so before. We move on this year about our other, sponsor this week, door dash. You all know

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editors get five dollars off and no longer have to face this. Sir agonizing choice, whether to cook your own dinner or not, and to be burdened with all the trouble and with clean up door dash, will take care of it all for you and get your fee food from favour, restaurants, right to your doorstep, so one other event this week Bernie Sanders. Doubling down, and Doing Elizabeth, worn and saying he's: gotta, forgive ah student debt. Let's hit on this really quickly just exit questions I appeal to you: first and b d: Democrat is elected president and takes office, and twenty twenty one summer? All of american student debt will be relieved yes or no.

Some, maybe all student debt of people who pass through some kind of weird new title: nine gauntlet with flying colours, the afresh I'm gonna, say nine unless the oh, it's a way of election when he twenty beyond what we can currently comprehend. I feel like a lot of this stuff is just a lot of these. Promises are dead empty gestures towards an ideological crowd without any real prospect of their enactment troika, argue that I think it will go through even if there is a way of election. I would say some I think, they're pretty committed to it. I think it had to be really limited and limited to lower. Income, people That's inherently quite limiting because allowed as debt. As so we discussed, I believe, before an upon Pike asked Podcast is upper middle class of people who aren't natural target.

That's for still be kind of a party of upper middle class entitlements. I've heard you say this before my comments: These are people who are just. The needs are people are gonna, be fine people who have college degrees in the? U S is by and large, turnout fine better than fine So has had a few other things before we go Charlie, you ve been taken with natural light beer natural light. Now which is a combination of strawberry lemonade and bear sounds horrible. Isn't horrible is in fact delightful? I'm occasion it used to be afraid of his eye, reverse refreshing, very dry, very cold. Straight out can straight out of the kind has a pink hue and cry,

a bunch of flamingos, that's perfect for Florida, especially in this heat zap. I've been accused by some people of being a hick psych, NASCAR guns, and this is this- is a drink. Maybe that reinforces our little. But I had to ask about the straw, because I was there at the same time when we went to a terrible die bar and Fresno California and Charlie, tried to order, I think, a double. Old fashioned and was misheard and and may because the accent and in the waiter, Ceta, Shirley, Temple and and tried in here, but Kevin Waves and did Charles yet yet yet the up and calves, like you know you just order, surely tat all right and just night and act in any real ran all these rough characterised this early to programmes of behind me. reason that we will find a bat bar alive with Kevin was back

we were all in suits and Kevin had driven in his g, and he was wearing a leather jack ear and they had a Harley Davidson patch and in TAT who, in his arm or whatever, and I think he he looked like a protector and that bar, but if he hadn't been there, I think we none of us are beyond this port Catherine, especially after my shirt example order. speaking of beer or least drinks and VD you're taken with happy table beer. Happy too, will be our skills. Alright, you're notes. It's ok, yeah. I don't know where that we both had beers today Charlie I'm not a marginal table. What I just hawk Beer, Michael you! Well this one may right now this one is its happy table. Beer by allegation brewery in the great state of mean

Table Beer, that I guess a belgian style of beer, and so this is what this knots and I'm not a beer snob would call a hop forward tat type of beer, but it's not like one of these. You know California, Ip Ays, where you you feel like you're being transformed or assimilated by the hops. This is a nice. drinking beer and for the nice summer days that we're having. I think it's perfect. And if it had been listening to the rewards put cast yeah did this is about gas is called the relaunch of holes. It's on the ringer, podcast net, and it is one of the more fine podcast. Just imagine a podcast dedicated to your favorite, fine movies. I mean this is not about. This is not about real. King films. This is about re, watching movies like fast and fear his five or the hang over or

You can just go down the less John Wick too and breaking down all the best parts talking about them ad nauseam it chest. Is it's so fine with fun spirit about it and it just yet like a lot of people that I don't necessarily go to a ton of these, but the movies that I like. I really like, and I like to watch him more than once Andy, it's it's just a lot of finite. Urge you, if you're, if you're, looking for a lie Your side podcast check that one out. So on a melancholy note, I've been thinking about the tragedy of losing a tree, and my parents old house, where I grew up and we had its enormous big tree out front. That pushed up the sidewalk and was just a landmark in the biggest tree in neighbourhood. Every time I took a cab he's getting right home I'd say: yes, the house with the big tree

and for some reason the tree got diseased and died and had to be cut down over Weekend, and this is just felt as like a momentous event in and neighbourhood? I got three people just randomly saying the trees being down, including a old childhood friend, now lives in Texas Take heed texted me right. I don't have a sedative a picture, but do they cut down your tree and a tree must have been as old as the house. Perhaps older and just a magnificent thanks, so it was a real loss so before we move on. Let's do our editors picks envy DE. What's your big big this review in national View print magazine by

Daniel Mahogany of the book. The constitution in full by Peter Augusta Lawlor of Bus at memory and Richard Rhine, shoe fitted finish the project after Lawlor passed away a few years ago and die anything Maloney Rights is good, and this is this is a book that would help split the difference in some of the recent debates rising servitors about our liberal inheritance gave what's your big. So can I just say that I don't ever want to write something that makes for a mesh mad, so he did he demolished in it couldn't be more than like for him four hundred and fifty words and are bad from novel John Irving that chest is a laundry list of ridiculous claims about pro life. American. and the pro life movement in the history of abortion and no

I can lasserate a bad argument more effectively with greater Economy of words than romance so rematch, if your listening dont return your scalpel on me. I beg you me, Charlie with your pic. I don't think we're mesh. Will spare you David. If you, if you do- and I am he Doesn'T- Spain turns it. Didn't spare me When I was in into an indiscriminate all, the other interns lived in fear of what, where the internet called being, were remiss shamed on the corner, a corner schapiro, going to shame by reminding us what had absolutely while my added to speak is actually your book review rich from the latest issue on. but cold ballpark baseball in the american city, which is written by pool goldberger, and you write that he argues that a baseball field is a sports com.

Nation of the jeffersonian agrarian tradition and Hamilton emphasis on cities and industry. Very much perfect. It's a wonderful book, my pig, is the cover story and our new issue and under appreciated, but important topic by Guy named Christopher O Day, follows these things obsessively just highlighting. of the national security threats involved in the chinese logistics chain and that this Just one element to the generational strategic challenge were facing from China. Please check it out, so that's it for us even listening to a national view. Bud

podcasting every broadcast, retransmission countless game without express written permission of national. You magazine strictly prohibited as podcasting produced by the incomparable Sarah Shitty, who makes a sound better than we deserve thanks Charlie. Thank you, David. Thank you, Michael thanks to equip and door dash, and thanks specially to all of you for listening where the editors see you.