Today on The Editors, Rich, Charlie, Michael, and Jim discuss the New York Times ’ recent Kavanaugh smear, Trump’s attempts to ban vaping, and tensions between the U.S. and Iran.
- Rich: Tech intervention.
- Charlie: Zion National Park and surrounding area.
- Jim: Justin Trudeau
- MBD: Throwback Covers playlist on Spotify.
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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who pushed red cabinet
peanuts will discuss this. In other questions of great moment on this week's edition of the editor,
umbrage. Lowering of joint is always, or at least some of the time by the right. Honourable Charles C D, you cook gin. At least
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I am hosting remotely from
sandy I go on the stand.
A service entrance of hotel adjoining a parking lot
because this is where the wifi is best was
working in my room, the wife, I was stronger in the lobby, but there too many people talking. So this is the quietest spot. I could find seven here cars if you hear
people ask me to move. We get out away if you hear the planes going overhead desperately want a flat path to Santiago Airport. That's the reason why so without further Ado,
I turn you MIKE on the big story this week that broke last week,
Gand was the suppose it a New York Times blockbuster,
port, proving allegedly that bread, carbon I'll, have lied along
about the Deborah mirrors incidents at Yale, because
an additional alleged incident where
supposedly and no one has explained that my satisfaction how's possibly could have worked anatomically where there's a dry
in party and recognise exposed himself and then friends, plural pushed his penis entity
hands of aid,
A woman who we are not told in the original times expert does has no recollection
of this incident and doesn't want to talk about it? What did he made of it? Well, I mean, on the last point about anatomy. I think they bury the lead
pigs hands to remove Brett Cavanaugh in someone's direction.
It was a very odd. It was. A very odd report
and the more you read it, the more you I think
readers, fair minded readers, saw omissions and strain.
Illusions of facts that that term. That made the whole impacted report. Less credible that didn't stop a few presidential candidates on the democratic side. From saying reacting to the report and saying oh bright, Cavanaugh should be impeached. This is simple
But gradually you know, people started googling, some of the the names and terms and found out that the sore
This next accusation was MAX
steer our contemporary of bread capitals at Yale, but someone who has been a consistent political rival, someone who was on the
Britain lawyer team, when bright cabinet, was on Kenneth Stars team during the Lewinsky scandal, someone who's what you know why
is involved in politics in Washington and has been snubbed by Republicans before and, of course, it didn't in
Lou two very important detail. That was in the book from which this story was adopted, which is that the supposed victim of this
other Yale, all sexual assault,
has no memory of this ever happening and doesn't want to speak to anyone about it. So
you know again, it was it it had this sum of woman,
sense of being a kind of fishing expedition where people
we're soliciting accusations again spreading
in order to make the previous act
patients see more credible and since that time it's it's ended up in a series of recriminations between
the authors and the New York Times where the New York Times seemed to throw the authors under the bus and then the the authors blamed the editors which I of the New York Times, which actually found
more credible. Yes, I Jim couple things on that. One one: the dispute between the the editors and in the authors just at having been
This is a very long time. I realize crazy stuff happens. That makes no sense. That is controversial and you explain it to outsiders, doctors, thinking, just
you're, making it up so the authors
explanation: oh they wanted to cut the the name of the alleged victim because
their policy not to name a legit
domes and then they lost the whole thing about her. Having a recollection that that seems plausible to me, but there
its encumbered on the authors, though, who know how important this fact is to block and authors push back again: setters
the time and its responsibilities, responsibility author to read the edit
Finally, and there's nothing wrong with it or something that's totally taken out
and change the balance of something extremely important. Just to say, we need this back in any. Obviously, there would be an easy way to do it. They did it subsequently in twenty four hours later after there was a big hue and cry led led by our friend
my anyway. You actually had a copy, the book and good to draw people's attention to the fact that the the alleged victim
had no recollection
the other thing, and just David fresh in very good on this, is you could take all the the report
many of these two journalists and
more naturally come to the conclusion. Well, there's no more evidence that of his guilt, in fact that there's exculpatory
evidence so on the balance we think
probably innocent, but that's clearly a conclusion that they didn't want to come to.
Yeah and there was a hard lesson for everybody
how to understand what offense, the relationship between reporters and editors, writers and editors
rich, not everybody is as easy to get along with, as I am
the offer to back late. I really want
they had actually India could be there. I don't want why you know
This is one of the I think inherent dangerous when you are a reporter on a particular beat. You cover a big story like the cabinet.
There's more meat on the bone, there's more to be explored and written about their you get. The big book
contract. You know if you
for the New York in one of the subsequent
Excuses or Oreo. Supplementary explanations from these authors was well
there's a lot of stuff in this book. That's actually kind of flattering the bread, cabin other fast overwhelming majority and everybody we spoke to talk about it
swell guy. He was that they'd never heard about any of this kind of behaviour, just it
role model will lock your cookies
times are border and you come
hey. I got a book common outlets, it says bread, Cavanaugh is a swell guy and in fact this,
but your reasons to be kind of
the goal of Christine Blasi Ford's strike one year. Editors of the New York Times are not gonna, say: yeah, Verona, huge acts, excerpt event,
the Sunday edition
and also the New York Times rears, don't want to hear that they were
here. Look I spent months of my life believing that this man was Satan, please,
give me more supporting data to support that position not want to hear, but what would agree
guy. He is that you know youth, basketball and backyard barbecues and everybody loves him
I want to understand that when he was at Yale he was basically John Belushi and Animal House
with a Europe with a whole bunch of sexual harassment in their stop and that that was the only the two levels- the mandate of this book, but in fact
heck of a lot of that, but they did find. Was this? You know telephone game story of somebody heard from somebody her some hurt.
And, I think everybody in the Process- new darn, well what they were doing with this sir, this particular
surf and leaving that out, I don't buy that this was an accidental you. Now we just want
Take your name out, we ve forgotten, we put
to mention. She didn't remember anything and she didn't actually say it happened, and she wouldn't talk to us like that. It up. Look
this there is something very odd that happened throughout the entire Cavanaugh fight, where everybody Roy
in Pharaoh and the New York or not these big institutions, just you decided, you know what all the traditional rules for verifying sources are out
that somebody says it Workin appointed, will swell straighten out later. Who turns out to be true or not? We got it
at the sky, no matter what, because he assumed this is all there my either in their back in their minds the right.
Abortion is at stake, so everything is justified.
His ragged Iraq. This is Armageddon all the
throughout the window, and then you end up
situation like this one. Yet
I think this really important point. Is this? Wasn't here the late think progress there?
for the story? I wasn't media matter. There wasn't any sloppy online out that it was the the most a red outlets of progress
journalism that pride themselves on their olympian quality on there
the New York around story that they they never should have run about, that the Denver Ramirez Incident
How flimsy it was not even sure
have copies in her story, then
times runs into
story, allegation that shouldn't have run and that there was a cut
daisy chain logic here, where Blasi for wasn't
very strong or corroborate out
to begin with and then alike. Ok. We should believe that
there's this other flimsy Ontario,
corroborate allegation from America's an alley should believe
both of those, because we have an even flimsy or and more uncorroborated story for you
that is still the argument that is rendered well,
How could he be innocent if their? This? Many completely preposterous
uncorroborated stories out there. One has led to the other
the american media has last year has what is best described: ass, Cavanaugh Derangement Syndrome, if the topic is broken
It immediately abandons is professional standards, its ethics, its empathy, its honesty, its rigour, its transparency
and any other virtue. Besides, this latest story
not a scandal, was not even
story. It was nothing the person.
Whom it allegedly happened, whom the authors disgracefully keep referring to ass. The victim says.
Didn't the one: witness is a political operative, there's nothing there, which is.
Why all of the relevant information was deliberately omitted from the peace is why the peace was placed into the opinion section rather than the new section is. Why
It was framed in impossibly vague terms, rather than cost us breaking news. When the times has a story, it puts it in the headlines.
When is trying to smear somebody, which is what I tried to do here, it comes at it
This peculiar angle, it talks about class and gender and environments. Its remit,
of to me that we're doing this again one year later,
the same major players are adopting the same ugly tactics and now, thankfully, experiencing the same disastrous results. There has actually been a little news in recent weeks. That news is that policy for its best friend, Leland Keyser doesn't believe her. In fact,
was bullied into changing historian, endorsing her friends account but resisted it
he seems to be somewhat proud of this. Could she has your corner post rich on her bravery,
frame, then her basement bathroom
on an outer play. We also have some
We also learned that Plaza thoughts. Father seems not to have believed Harry than how these things are not dispositive, but their far more interesting than the story that got or the attention which was not a story at all. I just want to say one thing about Jim's point. I take gems point that the findings of these two writers were that bright, Cavanaugh, good guy,
but they didn't actually just say that they said the gut feeling. Is that he's already good guy, but that he was a bit of
party animal when in school, and I think that one cannot have it both ways.
Bright. Cavanaugh has categorically denied all of these allegations. He didn't say
look, I used to be a party Anna
But now I'm much more upstanding. He said now
of these allegations is true, so
either a liar and a monster, or he's a swell guy and now
if the allegations are true, but he can't be both
from what we know. None of the allegations are true, though I didn't like that way.
Trying to get around it and in the book. I agree with Jimmy
it was never going to be the headline in the times, but that combined with references to instinct and got and sense irritated me because it was yet another attack.
Two to smear and to smuggle in by the back door the implication that he did something there's. No, yes, he said Jim Chinese.
Point? You is either liar earth or is not an end. The authors didn't, I haven't, read a book, but apparently didn't truly account for four that dyke.
The maid, but what their? I asked her to understand what they're getting
which is you know, we're all young once we're all food
We are all drunken party
and did stupid things
The reason why these particular allegations don't sit in that framework for me, though, is the Plaza afford attack. She described it was the activists
a vicious monster. These days
suppose it dorm room incidents are not at that.
Scale or that are normally but there's still bad innocent.
Like you, ve the abolition of streaking on the lawn Oriana high school students, will move people here that there's that level of idiocy in nudity. But but this is both a list
First, when the Deborah mirrors would have involved, can merely adding someone in a kind of it there's a thread of cruelty that
that runs through it and to me that,
goes to an aspect of character that
highly changeable. You know it's not that it's all you do you do this or a things we will attack on a high school girl and try to them.
Firstly raper and then just a few.
Upstanding citizen rest of the time. I just don't think that's the way the world works and then also just we're making a little bit.
At the beginning, but there's just an inherent in plausibility to this this latest.
It is as its described, because even the straight mail, even completely drunk, there's no way he's touching another straight nail
there and there's no way another trait nails, letting someone else touch another straight out of some self there. It just it's it's possible to believe that, as described by the two authors, that kind of thing took place my mind
Yeah one of the things I was really fascinating about the cabin our fight last year were how many,
primarily Washington Journalism, but I guess you could say pretty much in the entire
news analysis, son and the chattering class, so to speak work.
Bringing a lot of baggage to the table and who.
Ethically believed they were pretty able to convince themselves. They knew what happened, not because they knew Brett Cabinet, not because they knew Christine Blasi Ford,
but because they do that kind of guy at those kind of people- and you know how prep school kids are and not yet, even folks who I
think you know really highly off Caitlin Flanagan over the Atlantic, who, I think you know ninety nine times out of a hundred, is of no great
got a great writer and always worth reading road,
I say that basically said I had something similar happened to be in high school. Therefore, I believe
deemed lazy for, and you know
we got less Caitlin Flanagan and you know God bless her for coming forward about all that stuff and how painful it must have been. But you know the fact that some jerk
Did this to her back in high school, doesn't mean for a cabinet off. Did that
there. It was amazing to see the number of Renault reporters and thinkers and people who expect to be taken seriously.
Probably insist that they don't stereotypes.
Probably insist that they don't judge people based on one or two
it would probably say: look neural, I'm a fully functional ration,
human person- I don't jump to Conclusions-
then you know you scratch the surface and about you know a millimeter down this. Well, you know how right boys are you talking about
This immediate belief of
pull learned one or two things: either prep school guy. You know they are enough,
and the idea that all of a sudden from knowing a couple, a fact,
about bread cabinet? They felt comfortable me saying with absolute certainty. What did he do
this or that he didn't do this and not none of the counter evidence of well. She didn't have a timer place. Well, you know
of all his ability to get? They put bread, cavern
this position of having to prove a negative at?
in the face of absence of any supporting evidence. None other way
MRS Sinnott, and none of that was enough to do it because they had bad experiences with Bali's. They had bad experiences with frank boys. They had bad experiences with perceptible boys and that I think it indicated
that was the wall. They'll, get your little joke that Washington is high school look. It's
Let me get beyond its war, so people
still have that attitude there. It was really fascinating to see how much
This particular fight brought out this.
Credulity- but I think, almost enthusiasm for jumping to conclusions based on
We are really down dispositive traits in break out those like so Michael. Can you address the case,
cultural power? Your Charlie brought up to the fact that Keyser has this this little corner post, I
nope praising her and saying he's, probably the hero,
the cabinet observers there, such pressure on her to lie in the stakes are so so high and she really just by
saying a couple: words could have sank, cabinets nomination.
But I imagine one word. One reason that framed is very few other people,
right if I've gotta show up in the new Yorker or the Atlantic or the New York Times, and I
part of what's going on here, is probably subconsciously up with a lot of people but consciously with three.
Members of the legal left, is
want cabin ought to be thinking about this when he's, if a row
a case ever comes up, and I especially want John robbers to be thinking about it and Roberts. I think the jury evidence he can be played in this way. We saw on the care
case and and they want him to blank and shy away from overturning or significant eroding row cause he does. He knows every outlet of elite opinion
America will say the decision is tainted if their five votes and and two with a five hour Clarence Thomas and Bread Cavanaugh Year. I think that's a great point b. You know, even if it's obvious that the smoke here has been blown by reporters and commentators with an ideological interest, it's enough to you know, get people to choke on it, even if they know it's not from some real fire of misbehavior. In a we don't know what
Cabinets feelings are on on some of these legal questions. Yet I think some conservatives are already worried that can have is squish. Ah
I'm more of the opinion that these kind of events might have the effect they seem to have had on Thomas, where he viewed his travails in confirmation as a high tech Lynch
king and it seems to have bled into his rulings where he arm. He takes no heed whatsoever
her for I M popular opinion or elite opinion at all
What I find interesting, though, was that it at the time of the new Yorker P
on Deborah Marine Ramirez. The second story there,
the Jane Meyer and Ronan Pharaoh offered one was that
you alumni were organizing this solicitation
before stories on their own without being directed by reporters or people directly in involved in the Cavanaugh process.
Mean this was this was something that people who are elite, who I have grown up in these circles, who have gone to these schools, new tests to begin looking for and participate in, and I think that is actually the kind of
Scary part, and why.
Lemon Keyser might look to comfort from a national review post in of telling her effectively. What do you know what people known their conscience to be true, that the truth matters that you it's it's impermissible immoral to lie? Even if all of your friend
and all of their powerful friends are demanding it so exit question to you, Charlie Clock. Will there
be a renewed FBI, investigation of bread, carbon. Ah, if a Democrat wins the White House and twenty twenty yes or no, no
I dont, think they're well, because that Democrat work correctly understand having one that the political utility is limited and that such an investigation would rise up the other side and render the chances of that getting anything. Major done
much less likely to be ready by. I would say, no is well in part, because you know I've always reporters had not been able to find the goods who's to say the f B. I will either
I think, if you're in a democratic president's, you know your girls
Clarence Thomas, getting a little longer. The tooth people forget
a leader was only a few years younger than Clarence Thomas you're gonna get your own chance to put your own just as on the court, and you probably focus on that stuff, assuming of course, or even go for that. You know that that hot new trend of court packing and beneath.
No, I mean if the ISIS can summarize what reporters do anyway, so no, and also because I think you're right, rich, that their own they'll be
satisfied that there's some kind of stink already on cabinet,
and making unanimous and say no. I mean there's nothing to investigate this. This is such a wispy allegation. Add it would really
a gross misuse of the FBI. Basically took harass some someone that
considers a political
enemy says gotta, easy to say now and if applause line, but I can't see someone really plausibly a Democrat, possibly doing it. One
they're in the White House. So let's pause in here from one of our sponsors this week and that city journals ten blocks, I guess
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application- and I must add, as far as I can tell the house of the ten blocks podcast had never, then, for
to host from an outside location, near a parking lot of a hotel.
Gaza, I'm really kind of Minerva moderator. This week's I'm just looking like the scarf car is, it could come right out new.
I'm doing the Temple OX read or to go the other way, and it's the first going to say hello in her walking. So I apologize to everyone for the
Ambient noise is properly what I get for us.
Teasing so mercilessly Charlie a month or two ago, when he broadcast from arrest, stop, but a quiet, location and restaurant so
let's Charlie go to you on a thing
which she last week fee
Tromp administration and present Trump himself announced from the of office. This new FDA initiative to ban flavoured bathing pods
There's been a movement bubbling up around the country Sid,
do this mere governor and
Cuomo Ban flavoured ease cigarettes on earth.
A few days ago, San Francisco recently went even further and banned all dating products and actually
stand the delivery online.
Bathing products to address
within the city. What you make of it, I think common sense vapours control is long overdue, rich and unjust.
That our governments finally stood up. This is preposterous, ceases to have done this because Maloney a chump told him to against it anyway. I acknowledge that at the outset, I dont think that this is the role of government.
But raping in general should be seen as a positive step because it is less
for you than cigarettes, cigarettes tell a lot of people in the United States and worldwide evading killed. Eighty percent of the people, the cigarettes did, we should be providing. Of course it doesn't kill anything like that. Number
The policy seems to me to be built atop, a panic. There seems to be little evidence, for it are editorial, was good and running through what little evidence there is. It seems to be based on a conflation of legal products and illegal products specifically th see cartridges. One of the differences between smoking, cigarettes and raping is that raping is a platform almost like a computer into which you can put various other products, and so you can use flavoured cartridges. You can,
non flavoured cartridges. You can also that illegal cartridges in there that have illegal substances in them and it turns out amazingly enough that vapours- or at least some vapours I've been doing. This have been using these tac raping cartridges. That's not a reason to go off to the practice per se
I would argue as a reason to end the war on drugs, because now we have another technology that is getting around the law, which has never worked in a way. That is an argument took off to teach the illegal raping cartridges, not to panic over the technology per se, not to panic over flavoured products, certainly not to issue executive orders without
reference to Congress. Sir, I am opposed to this as you
Imagine, on principle grounds. I also think that if you believe that the government has a role to play here, you should be annoyed by this, because it is.
It is another example of how Iraq
Finally, we see the whole area. We seem now have a contingent within american politics that is anti cigarette.
Moderately, anti vaping and pro pot, I'm not sure how we got here, but that is interaction.
Opposition and that it is made it into the White House is baffling to me.
Ok, so Jim. I agree with most everything. Charlie said
It is actually right point out the culprit news. Recent illnesses appears to be these th, see pods that or adulterated with this acetate, as vitamin d acetate the peers to be probably what what made people sick so to lash out against. You know these flavoured Podge
lash out of faith in general is crazy on it on a basis. I roll call about this. Others give you Jim throaty you what I think the best come back is, which is that now
No one likes smoking and traditional smoking.
Everyone acknowledges its public health disaster. I think
number of adults in stout is fourteen percent she's a trimming
advanced still accounts for thirty percent of cancer deaths. Basically one in five overall DES in America,
and if it is just a question of transferring the remaining
workers or people who would be enticed and become a new smokers debating that there be no argument, but the d
I think, the most the strongest case. The other had side has its. That's not what is happening in the the number of
teenage smokers is down to six under
six percent now
the number of teens that in the lead survey said they bathed in last three days, twenty seven percent sit so so, or not
converting teen smokers were creating new vapours and.
Yes, vapourings, not as dangerous smoking, but still not aware of all the
Risks, and certainly all things being equal you,
wouldn't want to get teens hooked on this habit. They just don't
a lot of out and that's a form of of nicotine,
gin and they do seem the most popular flavors are. Are these
The man go in the fruit and what not so it s was enticing them. Why not banned knows and and leave
tobacco flavoured dating for adulterous. Switching from from cigarettes to developing
In a rich, this feels a lot more like a hysteria.
Then a lot of other public health fights we ve had
it's interesting contrast. You know world roughly run the same age
That's not your smoking used to be fairly common in public life, and then they introduce the non smoking section in the smoking section in the restaurant and then they said,
can't do it in the workplace, ass everybody to take it outside and entered into Russia. Now we want you to go another, the ten yards away from the door, and now all of a sudden you smokers are in some sort of you know down the street around the corner down a flight of stairs into some.
Dungeon or something like that, and we ve gotta this gradual slowly
pushing it out there. Now, if you
like when someone wants its wants, one decide something is unhealthy or that something is bad, that the change
seems like someone got her foot on the gas and and accelerates it went
hey. You know we use a lot of plastic straws. They may do not need to use them as often as we do to
sudden, you can't get them in restaurants, any more at the start,
Susan using them anymore, restaurant chain, soda everybody slipped over to the plastic
paper straws the dissolved moment you put them in liquid.
And now all of a sudden. You know it's just a matter of time before we have some sort of back alley,
black market for plastic straws or something like that. They bring with them
thing, that people did a lot of people said yeah, I'm trying to cut back on smoking. So I'm trying this thing so now they have this very. You know
Who will heighten device and snow the little sweeter a nicer than what you're doing and then turn into you know. Kids again into this is probably a good further do all of a sudden like we're we're not talking about bathing as if it's the pre eminence of threatening, do we find
the open oil problem when I was looking for something which we so there,
bigger problems to worry about than this one. But this is you know:
this just like us all consuming issue. The other which our is is this reveals here take me
tea party era, Vidya had this little bit of a libertarian flickr
joke that when ran Paul's on the cover of time magazine decline,
the libertarian moment,
it was indeed an actual moment and then passed, but there was
the sense of like. Maybe the Republican Party is getting a little less tired of
The nanny state was gone off a new directions and that the Republicans restarted me. The party does not leave you alone. Let live your life or something criminal. Just
This a lotta republicans, gonna, emulating, Buckley and a national review, looking more sceptically at the drug war.
Tromp comes along and Trump has none of that Trump famously say your doesn't drink.
I believe he rather amusingly once said. Could you imagine if I did so
Your trump has this. This does not have this libertarian instinct does not have this attitude of you. No government regulations gonna be a pain. Let people make their own decisions
another you guys, but by attitude trivia? When people die in a fire, they usually die of smoke inhalation. So if you have
small burning thing in front of your mouth in your inhaling it just how healthy do you think that can be, but yeah
This is very much in line with trumps thinking. He's never gonna be a.
Back, you know tat the person whose okay, let it do, people do what they want. He's always live a nanny State Boston
and uniting is probably not gonna play well. I think we really great chance to cut a steel issue from the Democrats and make a lot of people who just want government,
leave him alone. Let people go on, live the life, they want to live and let us accept the rest. Let him know the wrestling be informed about it, but now
for the children, we ve got a band this than you know.
Start like we have any other previous experience in american life, trying to ban something and having it turn out badly. So
B. G D, the post fuss liberal dogmas possible synthetic personal on the park ass in
What what do you make of this any part of you sympathetic to it? I have set the anti smoking campaign old enough to have.
Been around during those those wars it in the nineties, and I think convicts went too far and so
respects as a scam in and latter's backs. Trial orders were making out like bandits, but it did it sees me. Is it.
It's advanced for human flourishing, although not for human freedom. What what happened in the wastes? Courage, smoking! So I think smoke is an example of something for a government. Can nudge people in a in a better direction, that's better for them and for their communities and for the families and for for Psy DOT D.
I don't see the big harm here with gaping, which is why I'm more clearly the Turin on this question, but let me make it it. I think
smoking thing when we look back at that history were going to see that more important than the government's action was just social change. That was was not totally instigated by the government in a social change, a class issue, basically that elites and upper classes that people want to imitate started. Giving this up started thinking. It was disgusting and then that that attitude started to spread, and then private establishments.
You know made it harder and harder for people to smoke in them before you know that that social change was leading a head.
Of the bans in New York City in the bars that then spread worldwide. So I think it was. The social change was happening first and the government action happened later,
My own view of the weeping thing is along the lines that this is a panic and that health panic
have a way of moving very fast. As Jim said, I mean it's, it's amazing to see New York move against legal, raping which again, no deaths attributable to LEO, raping as far
We know and at the same time their mandating. You know a whole new suite of necessary vaccines. If you want to send your child to public school, because there is an anti anti backs, panic in the state, because a few ultra orthodox jewish children got sick and NASA
we, the hpv vaccine is being mandated. So there's there's a way in which I will
worry that legislators are just giving in to moral fads and social media, pin
way ahead of expert evidence, testimony or any social need.
So I'm I'm more worried about that. The general trend spreading. I don't care that much about the weeping industry one way or another, but this seems way too hasty and ill founded chow you. I do I take up that the point up a debt to MIKE all that
government action and smoking. As I say, I think that the
governments. Interest in this case, if you accept the government has a role to play here- is to encourage anything that is less dangerous. I am certainly open to the idea that the risk here is that you create
new people their sight now, no an act that try to the point that that there may be
government raw or need. Then it may be a good thing.
The government to be more interventionist and pushing people out of traditional smoking, make it harder and and make it harder for tobacco companies. While I think you have to break them down into a series of discreet questions insofar as the tobacco companies were lying, which they seem to have been than there is, of course, a role,
government to prosecute fraud. I support that in so far as government is picking up the tab for medical costs associated with smoking. It also has a vested interest. That is, of course, in my view, an argument for keeping government out of the medical realm
and it's not quite as simple as that in practice. Anyhow, such in the in England, the government takes in more from smoking taxes than it spends on the negative consequences of smoking, but I said to me
understand the argument that if the state is picking up the tab than it has a vested interest in stopping people from some,
and the idea that the government has an interest per se in protecting a person from himself is one that
reject. So I think there is a man
stronger role for government into
Mention with third parties are involved. For example, there is a much stronger argument:
for governments to get involved in, say, an airport where people have to go away. You have a natural monopoly
Then there is in preventing people, discouraging people, taxing people when they're going to go smoke in their own home,
as a rule there, I'm I'm not as convinced as you that it is an improvement to have government
deleting these areas. If the aim is to reduce liberty in order to improve what you called human flourishing, but I would regard as a person.
A choice so Jim Gary Ex a question to you percentage odds that all they thing will be banned
in the next two or three years, you're too,
all they? No, but you probably Wilson.
A demonization campaign has fared on par with what you saw for smoking. I please, don't they
this room pleaded. I know gaping zones,
strict on who can be sold to and when and all I gotta stop is probably gonna become more ubiquitous. Anybody.
I think you ll see a little bit of that campaign, but I dont anticipate them. Having the second hand raping argument at the ready, so I don't, I don't think it's gonna get very far Simon, say no check up deafening, are gonna be banned completely
I put the percentage. Maybe it's fifty five percent just Navy ticket of puff of fifty percent
just to its hysteria. I'm not sure we'll see what the flame
ban does too teen aping, but but there
There is a panic over this. Be federal. Action is gonna power, states, locality,
to go further and there even talk to that end.
So I just would be shocked. It would be foolish policy, but I just wouldn't be shocked it if they go furthering and good at it.
The next step. So before I move on, let's hear from our other sponsor this week, which is politically the unconventional political convention
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So MBA. Another big story this week,
is the aranea. Currently the iranian strike on Saturday.
Oil facilities that put some significant percentage
of the saudi oil production off line.
You ve had cut is weird and conflicting,
It is coming from the administration about the iranian responsibility and then societies.
Apparently are still
determining whether they think the Iranians are responsible, and you had this Trump tweet that that's.
Red literally would would say we're from sub contractor to what our response will be
check. This out, he said: go we're gonna go. Let me make it well that last point was
really embarrassing reckoning. President Trump basically voiced it was as if you
in voicing my hysterical critique of american saudi relationship as the reality listen.
It is a confusing event because the Saudis aren't even willing to at least directly Blaine.
I'm not sure why maybe they're afraid that they ve caught the in others that there, the dog that's caught the bus and they don't know what to do with it.
I would not be surprised, of course, if the Iranians or a proxy group were responsible. Of course it does not look, though it
The argument is, you have to punish IRAN for the disruption, because the disruption itself is intolerable. You know that you're trying to protect oil markets or the prevent a recession from coming in
view because of disruption in the oil markets, while if you use a strong military response, you're going to disrupt oil markets even more
by going at around. This was a you know this parenting disrupted.
Percent of Saudi Arabia is production capacity, Saudi Arabia, supplying about five percent of world supply of oil. So it was significant, but markets expect it to be back up and running in a few weeks.
It does seem to me like the? U S and IRAN are released currently on a path toward major conflict. The? U S
Sanctions on IRAN are really taking a huge bite,
Iran is using its proxies and its ability to be disruptive in order to create some kind of price for the. U S for
continuation of these sanctions and the abandonment of the Koran deal that preceded them.
So am I dont know,
the way out of it. I do know.
However, that I am uncomfortable with the. U S is oh, you know
regrettably strong alignment with the Saudis. I think it's been counterproductive for both of us. I think the Saudis outsource some of the costs of their,
foreign policy onto the- U S and address
Neither see us seeking long term a balance of powers in that region, be since
neither the Saudis nor the Iranians are powerful enough to dominate the entire region.
But I dont know how we get there and we certainly don't get there with with the president making. It seem, like you know, the: U S, militaries at the Beck and call of of Prince Mohammed Bun. Solomon John, when you take
You know I read about this in the corner couple:
days ago, and I went through in the: U S had more options. All
more bad at best, they are risky
and it really gets infuriating when you listen to these presidential debates and everybody makes it sound like I had so easy. Just put me in there and I'll take care of all the stock options. One is
nothing. I just hope the iranian start being nicer. I don't think that's like
What happened, but you know
You could always try that and see what happens. Option two is to sign on to this french deal where we know we're alone or an fifteen billion dollars to offset the effect of the same
so. On the one hand, we would be imposing sanctions, on the other hand, would be saying hey it
ok, well long, you some money to counteract the effects of those actions.
Option. Three is let the Saudis handle it themselves rich. I think you'd linked to a foreign policy think her on the Atlantic Council who said you know what maybe this is what's best for. I just can't
Look at that and take man noticed the Saudis are blown up. Half a Yemen in the process of trying to fight there. The who
he's down there and blown up school buses and mass casualties among civilians and stop
yeah Saudi Arabia, responding to a ran seems like a real, quick way to get to a regional war. You think
you think you think oil shipments are disrupted. Now you know, bigger worse. War between Saudi Arabian ran seems like you know. It gets even in a worse situation. Oh, by the way you got there,
refugee problem from Syria
you did Saudi Arabia and
IRAN's shooting missiles at each other across the Persian Gulf and see what happens
forest yourselves and to do you a strike on oil platforms on their naval ships. We did something like this
one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight. Maybe the idea is you hit Duran just hard enough to say, look guys, don't start any more trouble
not so hard hearted.
Say? Okay, this? Is it we're up against the of war against the great Satan
like a rock and roll biggest. Maybe there's a fifth option. People may remember a couple weeks ago when the Trump tweeted at that
intelligence photo of something blown up on a watch site in IRAN, and he said the: U S had no idea what had happened about it, which was pretty clearly saying Nanda ran. We did this, you know
best with us again. We can do it again. You don't know
you and I and everybody else, don't know what kind of intelligence options and we have on this and we're gonna military options and abilities to sabotage something but yo. If
something really important to the mullahs blew up right now and nobody we wouldn't leave any fingerprints doubt would be really convenient
but every one of these, as some sort of options were bigger. Worse messy com,
look here, I guess
everything that Michael saying about the income of the problems with our alliance with the Saudis. You know in a
world we would never. These guys would never be our first on draft texts of potential allies. He could argue that a plain us against both sides at the door of the of the street.
Comes to for a really long time. Man
like the Saudi Royal family. You now you have it
where's their share. A problem is, but I met the day the jihadists take over there
throw the regime- and you know the ISIS Urban Lawton Types- are controlling Meca Medina as the day our lives get a heck of a lot worse, so
they may be the best of a whole bunch of bad options here,
You think it's very clear based on the fact that you, as of this recording time, nothing has happened too,
really wants to avoid a military conflict heading into a re election year, and I think that the disease
It's really dangerous when they, but they know you don't want to have a fight. They are going to push you as far as they can at least
the most insane policy. It is here
tat if we can go along with this french plan.
RO, the Iranians a lifeline. For the same.
That we got out at the rendezvous.
Agreement to impose! What's senses just stay in the agreement. If you don't you think that
Sanctions are too hard on on IRAN. I just I have.
I'm seeing us actually doing that.
I hope you don't think that just seems seems crazy to me
ex question to and be there will be a major military conflict with IRAN before the twenty twenty. You US presidential election yesterday,
No, if I think that what has happened over the british ship or some other event of that's already preceded this, if it was gonna happen, so I'm gonna say now
bury you know, I think we'll have a one sided military conflict, I think you ran, will do something else worse in a lot of people will be asking we go to the brink of war and Trump will reach out to the mullahs through censored. A third party,
convince everyone that he's got some sort of amazing deal with them. That ends the conflict. That in fact gives them almost everything they want, but he will
His tell voters a he avoided. A Middle EAST war kept us out of it
our foreign and.
Bad in the long run, but he'll look nice in the short run.
Yeah. That's a different version of this question a couple months ago, this letter there be any military action and
I thought. Yes, I thought we'd end up thinking moraine
kept her something kind of doubtful that that even that war-
than now, and I still believe this is heading
more towards a negotiation per gems point than conflict
Although uranium seem desperate desperate for
the conflict. So before we go, let's hit a few other things.
Surely you a couple couple days ago spend time to southern Utah. I did. I want to speak at seven,
University, beautiful campus, she have Shakespeare Festival there as well, so they have a well, it's not an exact replica, but they have a
an outdoor theatre that in some way resembles the globe and a couple of other lovely there, but the main reason of canvas
so beautiful, isn't it surrounded by mountains? Ass, of course, is me
of that area in the United States to get there. I drove from LAS Vegas up through
Arizona and then into southern. You turn the.
The scenery, is just absolutely breathtaking.
Nowhere more so than Zion National Park, which the place I was at sea the city is, Sir, is next to,
sir. My me I was get confused.
Design the one with the hotels or design the one. That's that's the sky in the Valley than the valley. Ok, you're, the best
The amazing said Jim you been enjoy the just intruder: Trudeau Costume Black Brown, face versus well,
blood for all the listeners out there who might have had a rough morning and
now things are grown, hooray, Repass, yeah, yeah, yeah sure podcast outside rather than than in.
Yeah you're it, our poor wretches, currently standing intrastate trying to get a good, clear signal. Look at least you're not just introduced today, the guy, the idea that you know that
progressive dreamy, dreaming, Mc Hunky, perfectly a world leader, caddies he's so multi cultural and saw oppression of other culturally, so endlessly respectfully. Never do anything that the fact that here
rest up it, depending on your term, black face or brown face, and the fact that currently, his is
DVD of Aladdin looks really different from the rest of us
the other you'd do this and apparently than it three times, and since I got you know, look we have all had the you know. We all member the wrath north and situation of he was trying to dress up like Michael George, Michael Jackson, and he was trying to move Walker Desire, youthful indiscretion, a party
today was a teacher when this was going on and he did it multiple times at one time. He apparently didn't you dress of a prairie Bela Fond Day. So me, there
Firstly, as you guys, thorough
plan members who have never done this, but your death is true. I don't know I'm just just in Joe inject this into my veins. It is absolutely delicious and wonderful. He was already in trouble. Looking at the word for reelection did, there is a fairly straight up the case of him telling,
the officials to lay off a company that had donated to em. So look if, if
If today, however, good onto your nerve nerves, Elect
couple years- this.
Karma caught up with him and beat the tar out of a really fast easy and in the center covers playlist.
Yeah, I've had a busy weak, but on the train right down a couple times, a sweet, the office Spotify just suggested one of their own playlists called throwback covers it begins with them.
A cover of the chain and this one by brandy, Carlyle in a high women and it just bangs and the whole torvous playlist is through seventies and eighties hits covered by an artist more recently in the nineties to thousands and and more recently
and I M just slipped my spirits ANA on a busy weak
So I over last week, was subject of attack intervention,
we had an ash review events, and I had to step aside and and finish column and actually right up
but everything I do on my ipod or my phone
and us finishing this column on my my iphone, and it's been on that the blank lately and
stir the function of the keyboard where switches over and allows you to do a comma wasn't worth
towards the end of their coms. As I could get my big exodus right hand, this thing fell commas and then it would actually finished it
I couldn't the strangest Holly stopped working.
Can I copied over an email and send it and with the true,
They frustrating when you like, hard up against the deadline
every sort of used to these bs.
Explanations you get for four authors who just haven't finished yet like all. I can send it to you, but my iphone not working. You know this is totally complete.
So anyway, I had to get some quicker tech help from from my my colleagues, and afterwards are very
efficient and polite Acting CEO Dale came up to me and said you turn
Our talking ritual we take. You may be suffering like totalled on the verge of a total tech, knelt down very like yours,
Ices are no longer work. Such you can't, even by a new device and updated,
So I took this this good advice and went to the the apples
the new while earning wanted is Charlie. I sent you a screenshot, the
phone eleven to five,
ex be or something that's. That's dropping tomorrow, two hundred and fifty six gig bites of stone.
Oh yeah. Now it's it's serious on on the way to meet tomorrow or other at all, but the ones I ll be back in India,
all the the
Apple stores, the phone and black,
which is what I prefers not available so as to buy a gold one that was the only on a cold.
That was available, but
I will soon, hopefully, by the next time we
Take on this podcast be more technologically advanced than than than all of us know. That
so with that, let's hit our editors picks and bidding. What's your PIC Mattie Kerns this week as many weeks wrote on
the kind of ongoing gender wars and miss gendering wars and and trains issues that are dead.
Radioactive and then you have to be very briefly touch. She wrote a piece about the Democrats.
Campaigning in the same way on these issues, and she is always worth reading so click on over and follow
Eddie, Jim Gary. What's your pick? You don't. I promise
could put something by Alexander the scientists in this category every week, but
think the unbelievably ah
and unnerving and disturbing in horrific news about that. Abortion doctor in South Bend heap
away. Somebody decides to go down to the seller and in a sea that just seem like it's out of your worst nightmares or some sort of horror movie, apparently,
The guy had just like more than two thousand
fetuses in jars right now, you'd seen that in one of these in a greenhouse saw movies or something you the audience. A bailiff screaming and horror
an Alexander entered the sector's, who always brings great passion and an incisive wits and endless. You know just
a absent moral clarity. To what I would have you know, horror show this is really brought it this week end and you know treated it with the volcanic moral outrage, the sort of thing deserted. You don't have to be a download.
Pro life or to look at something like that and say: ok. Well, while something's gone terribly wrong here, this is
this is macabre. This is an absolute disregard for all human life,
just a you know, these sort of thing that
If we were to short carpet, does now Philadelphia. Was this one off it was this one weirdo got into this gonna stop other abortion. Doctors were perfectly normal, got no, no, no date. They. You know there is some. I don't know how much you can do, that
I'm not develop a certain callousness to deeper the importance of human life, and this just
and into the most vivid nightmarish example of the natural end. Point of that
mindset so crudest Alexandra. It's a great! I stop this Charlie. What's your back, I liked Carl Smith.
Deconstruction of a radio interview that was given by one of the people who wrote the NEO time story about bread, Cavanaugh,
I went through line by line pointed out why her testimony was so dishonest and the various tricks that shit
use, one of which, as I mentioned earlier, is to repeatedly call somebody who denies anything happen to her victim which, as Carl says, would be questioned, begging, even if the accusation were supported by the person supposedly affected. But when it's not
utterly preposterous so might take. Is peace run a couple weeks ago by one of our Buckley sellers, John, her shower, who wrote about Genral once the historic
and who used to be a liberal historian with impeccable credentials, but had
Mary to write, an excellent book, no property and then about how the constitution was not the dark, evil and document. It's the trade as by folks through
writing, for the sixteen nineteen project, another critics of the founding, but actually ambiguous on on the question of slavery.
And did not endorse or protect, so
every nationally and how this was used over time by abolitionist and critics of of slavery to make the case
against slavery and John wrote a really nice piece about this book,
and the controversy really
to it. So that's it for us even listening to an ash from you, pod, casting a rebirth cast retransmission or account of this game. Without the express written permission of national view, magazine is strictly pro
but this podcast has been produced by the ink
operable Sarah. Surely who has her work cut out for her this week?
although I have to say I'm media, this kind of pod casting outside Sadia goes is growing. Army is better than being in that Black Box of our gas studio. There were you in ports
There are right now thank you to Charlie,
thank you to Jim. Thank you to Michael thanks to our sponsors. Political
and the city during all ten blocks podcast and thanks especially,
all of you for listening and your patience with the ambient noise. This
we are the editors and we'll see you
Transcript generated on 2020-05-18.