« The Editors

Episode 179: NATO Summits, Kamala Plummets

2019-12-05 | 🔗

Today on The Editors, Rich, Charlie, Michael, and Luke discuss the U.S.’s early Christmas present: Kamala Harris ends her presidential campaign. They also touch on impeachment proceedings and consider events from the recent NATO summit.

Editors’ Picks:

Light Items:

  • Rich: Old radio broadcasts of famous baseball games.
  • Charlie: Season 3 of The Crown.
  • Michael: Netflix show on movies we love, the Home Alone episode.
  • Luke: Christmas tree vendors in NYC.

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The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
An arch twenty twenty Ryan crews will be the trip of your lifetime. So come we ve charted the luxurious Amara, which will sail April Menteith to the twenty sixth and visit Cologne, Amsterdam, Strasbourg and other glorious Rhine River cities awaiting. You will be wonder by food vistas parties and tours plus great policy discussions with Dan Hannan, Rich Lowry, Avenue slays Charles Kessler and many more great conservatives. Space is very limited visit and our crews dot com for more information. Our readers and baby
Nancy. Blowsy announces trumps impending impeachment that NATO's, Dissolves into junior high school acrimony and comma goes away wheels Thus, all this more on this week's edition of the letters are Clary enjoyed is always or most of the time by the right, honourable Charles, w cook the notorious coup d, like Brandon Authority, add smarts political clout. We know Luke Thompson, you listen to a national you, podcast or sponsors this week are borough. The break through further the company and equip the breakthrough toothbrush. If you is broadcast on Ashura. You dont com would lead, have you, but it would be easier for you better for us if you made us party or feed it in other streaming services out there from Spotify to Itunes, and if you like, what you please give us a glowing five star review on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said anything right.
Look it's. It's happening. Nancy policy not am statement this more. As we are recording, confirm, that she's away over the the Rubicon There can be voting on articles impeachment soon here than a week or two and say: I've never got into the full Luke Thompson on the issue of propriety question but just reading the shift report. Just a couple, Things one there's no nod to the possibility: the Trump might as I am he did sincerely have thought the buttons were corrupt. Now course he focused on the buttons for because might run against them in in the general, but there is, I think, was and sincerity there for the level of interference in our election. There they're talking about if this announcement of an investigator
abridgment that had been investigation that investigated over and by the Ukrainians, its effect would have been basically zero Honor elections and Nancy Policy in herds. And this more is very notable. She's talking about foreign interference in a differ, since what she is talking about the founders and what they feared she is talking about Foreign government controlling are president. What sort of goes there still under girding. This is kind of Russia still and the Russia collusion theory, and their inability to give that up? But what this was was present Trump trying to control a foreign power and get a form present do what he wanted, not the other way round. I have to start by admitting that I was wrong. I did not think that the Democrats, out of a fit of
fear of their own primary voters and peak and constitutional nihilism would commit an act of political self harm. This manner we just so naive, look, I believed, I believed the old saw that politicians like to get reelected, and thus I did not think that all of the moderate Democrat freshmen would walk the plank for such a flimsy, asinine and stupid a case as this, it didn't. Twenty turned from a bomb occur. Think we're out of the other thing out of that. There was policy there I mean and it didn't work, but they got something you could your hat on it and I think genuinely and twenty ten. They all believed it Nancy places line which, as we have passed the bills you can find out what's in it, which will actually one of liking, so it is different. They know he's not gonna be removed from office by now. They know that I mean they know exactly, as I said, that political opinion has moved against impeachment and continues to move against in peace.
And will continue to move against impeachment over time. So what what's the indication tax? I I I had the fighters track a pretty much every day and it seems fairly static. You know it's like two percent or less pro it just impeachment remove yes, it's consistently around four thousand eight hundred and forty six, we probably four thousand six hundred and forty four it bounces a little, but have a look at where the independence are the minute. It's upside down with independence is a minute that this is. Proposition, and we know all the relevant impertinent facts everything they're gonna have on. You know they control a million Noah Feldman's there are plenty of intellectually shallow, coiffeur, partisan hacks. In this country,
school of Islamists and think that the Muslim Brotherhood should have run Egypt, unencumbered and sorry. I got off topic there. They can't write out the entire institutional credibility of the managerial academic, bureaucratic clasp. It will not change the fact that the only possible crime committed here is a temporary violation of the Antique Impoundment ACT passed in the wake of Nixon's abuse of the amount of power in the early 1970s. Shortly before his resignation, there is no crime and the fact that there's no crime means that there is no cause to impeach. Yes, as a constitutional matter Parliament can be about anything, it's a political question. You can impeach somebody for having how a toast, if you want, and if the political will is there, but good luck going the american people and saying well, it's in views and often violation is over, but we can't actually name a crime Emily who that's impossible actor follow, I think, looks right. The various
evidence in the polls that the impeachment question is moving back to a level of support in the public that it had before the Ukraine scandal erupted that this is just a kind of constant in our politics. I do think that this has been the case in our friend, you ve all events prediction that once the train gets rolling over the station, it tends to move much fast. And even its in or even the people who let loose understand mean we are moving quickly now. I think we might be moving quickly because Dragging out is calculated to do more damage to Democrats, then Republicans at this point, and this is just something that they have to do- to satisfy they say something that the case from each one has been improved much the hearings- and I think the key,
was entirely there. Once the rough transcript was released and It has been interesting to, though, to see what's her name, whose now at the Washington Post used to be the ombudsman editor at New York Times, Margaret Sullivan YA. Think she. A common today saying basic, two journalists, hey Wall, the Wall coverage of impeachment, isn't moving the needle here's instead genes and how to find and persuadable, publicans and start persuading them, which is an astonishing column, to write basically saying that the job description of the media should be the same as the jobs adoption of the coms operation of the Democratic Party. So yeah. I think we haven't learned anything at all, I'm not sure. I'm I'm not It's going to be the disaster that Luke anticipates for Democrats, because I just
So much of this is praised in that's probably true. I hope I hope it is. I deserve it. I just feel like the public is almost bored by it, except for like the meat hard core news junkies and on the Russia thing by the way that came up even though scholars that they brought in yesterday to testify, in a word pronouncing on Graham strategy. Saying stuff like ridiculous stuff like while we have to give this to the Ukraine because they are fighting the mare, so we're not fighting them here, as if Russia, planning a land invasion of the north American? Hans again? Why were they? You know four years ago, right well, yeah I mean it's all over mean. Obviously I mean not for arming Ukraine, but like that is an insane statement for legal making any bolsters your point rich. That, for there is Kind of
paranoia about Russia. That is still leaked all over this and it's not Democrats are unable to come themselves, to oh what arguably the impenetrable offence here so Charlie. What do you make of Jonathan Turkey's position with which I basically agree with that? This was improper as wrong. Shouldn done it, but he he are use it if he can impeach him over at one is very narrow d a fence in two you have an incomplete factual record. You haven't talked any the first hand witnesses Gordon someone had some first hand, information, but wasn't an insider. The way mulvaney here, obviously Giuliani or or job bolton- and Why are you rushing? Listen and not pausing in this such grace grave process to try to secure the the testimony of those folks
then they the critics of Turkey's position, and I think, there's there's some forced to this- will save us Protection walks. What are you doing if the Democrats wait till June rightness important judgment then, because it's a complete, factual record it. Even though we are in a much closer to the election and is the White House that yes might have some legitimate, privileged claims that should be duplicated. But, why has this resisting and make it making much harder to getting a complete factual record? I thought yesterday's testimony was interesting because it was the first time that the Democrats have been us openly partisan. Revolting ass. The Republicans have some of the republican behaviour thus far has been ridiculous. Blankets, support of president chumps position advanced by people who know full well that he did this, even if they don't think it's unimpeachable, the echoing of the perfect
line the whitewashing. If the report had spent intolerable yesterday, though we saw the Democrats doing the same thing with their academic witnesses, people who added nothing and whose partisan bias. Was obvious and revolting. I never again in my life I want to see and about a donor and potential democratic Supreme court. Pig complaining about kings. Somebody who thinks that Barack Obama was a great president. Somebody thinks he did nothing wrong. Somebody who flits between believing that America must be perfect in its application of the constitution, and that we must think of the children when the constitution doesn't fit her preferences
and I never again want to hear from somebody who is an expert in this field- are supposed to be an expert in this field that what President Trump did here he did do is the worst thing. Any president has ever done is the most impeach bull conduct we ve ever seen from a chief executive, has an odd. Incongruity at the moment in the left's rhetoric. On the one hand, we are told that the country was founded in bigotry was founded, Preserve slavery that the original principles of the United States rotten to the core. They were not liberty and equality and reason ditch and racism, and, on the other hand, we are told that chumps sorted little. Adventure in Ukraine is the worst thing any american president has ever got overdone market presence, rubber have owned other human beings. I thought the spectacle yesterday was issued pass that trolleys could point. I thought this was a good thing.
Spectacle and I thought that the only person, it was interesting, was Jonathan Turley and whose it was nice to see. Actually somebody who was not a pot is and who is not autism who is not a conservative who is not ever public and, as far as I know, who set they didn't vote for Trump and indeed voted against him, but somebody who has proven himself to be intellectually honest, who has complained. About the way things are done, even when he agrees with the outcome. If you look back to break a bomb is unilaterally, migration policy, Jonathan Turley, sided with Congress because he believed that its prerogatives and its powers were being you said even ass. He admired the end to which the Obama administration was Can I don't necessarily grew everything Jonathan tell he said, but the
one thing he said that made me consider my position and the one thing he said, and indeed that anybody said in a whole day. The ready made me think, was that the founders explicitly rejected maladministration standard for impeachment, because they thought that it would essentially permit the president only to serve if the Senate wished him to serve now in price. It is. That is, of course, how it works, If said over and over again have perhaps over stated this, the impeachment is: whatever Congress decides, it is, and it can be now the lad. I dont think The diamond. Dershowitz is correct when he says impeachment is justifiable that if chief Justice Roberts believes that the grounds for impeachment unfair that can step in and voyage the process a weird, but I did. Where did you get argument, because there are no manners, that's great gathered crackers. I dont get that, but I do that.
We have an obligation, nevertheless, to proceed according to the original public meaning of the documents, and if Jonathan tell you right now, I've done their research on this outside of listening to him yes day, but if he is right in arguing that the. Rounds for impeachment words deliberately consciously explicitly narrowed by the founders away from out administration and into a much much smaller tunnel. Then I do think that matters and it will affect the way I think about this, going forward that I thought was the most interesting part of tell his presentation and indeed of any presentation so Amity what to make of the argument that some of the slightly more sophisticated prompt payment. People make that the reason why
You can't have an election with Trump running in it is because he wanted to interfere in the election. So that's that's disqualify, so is it it's tough because I'm I'm I'm dealing with my own standards of conduct that I would like to hold public officials to and the standards think are generally accepted by the american people in those a quite divergent. At this point, I dont think that that is a good argument, because One, the opposing campaign, of course, publicize anything they want to about the sitting. President right, I mean they can say this person tried to interview. You know tried to interfere no election. He may try to do. So again you can, you can make their charge. It does. No automatic.
Disqualification for it, especially the fact that that that case will be harder to make when you know, you just point out: Ukraine got the money from didn't, get the investigation so there is no. It didn't even and there was no was no break in essentially there was no attempted criminal act. There was no criminal act, So I dont think that that is, I just don't think that will fly with anyone. So look what what would you say? send a trial to look like also dude by the commission, wisdom among some folks that censure vote would have been much shrewder
play. It could have hearings in the stops, the facts and then pull back and say: ok, we're gonna, ruin a censure him and try to get you know or no and get some extra problems for that. You probably get a majority the set up for a while. I'm I'm ecstatic for the Senate trial because the senators have to sit there. Sixties weaken their not elaborate talk and other business can proceed so they just have to sit there on bank. Listen to it not say a word shift around in their seats Mitch. Mcconnell, I am led to believe, is very excited by this prospect as well, especially since you know at least a few of them are still running for president technically one fewer which will get to later. No censure vote wouldn't work, political The reason for this mess is because Adam Schiff, essentially, who is an idiot, decided to try to re enemy, Russia, conspiracy, theory, the heart,
this level. This podcast goes up. The several letters of my haven't even managed to someone like shit is basically a political, dead men walking he'll be safe in his district forever, but he's never gonna teen stay way. Often Californy will be appointed to anything so if he wants to become a state white office holder, he needs to expand his profile and he that he put it all on on the seclusion theory- and you know the roulette we'll turned up the other, the other way so he's trying. He tried to reactivate this with this whistle blower, who it seems pretty clearly worked with his office to concoct this entire operation any box, he boxing Anti pollution, Nancy Blowsy one day did not want. Impeachment and woke up the next day with basically no meaningfully meaningful facts and decided. She changed her mind after two and a half hour meeting with the congressional black hawk is, which previously had also not wanted parliament and then all of a sudden did because they were afraid primary challenges once that cat.
Bag, there was no alternative to impeachment for them and, frankly, once she got all the modern to walk the plank on voting for the impeach investigation. It was a mere was over like like. I know you think any anymore that we discuss this last week and I realize actually might have been too optimistic, do think any moderates. Besides the two who didn't vote the inquiry are gonna like off on their articles. I dont know Europe
interesting, you may have it, it will depend I'd. Probably not. I think at this point, because none of the because none of the route, the register of the filing deadlines, two primary, these people have passed its very unlikely that they're gonna move. I mean who would do it? Damn le pen scheme may be, but Le Pen skis got a very serious primary challenger in renewing we barely be two years ago. I dont see, I don't see who's gonna defect, you may get one or two more and sorrow than in anger sang. I would support censure but not impeachment, but I think it's it's vans ruin who is the other one another, Emily S question to you. If trumps reelected will he be the first president to and be impeach twice yes or no? Yes, I think that's absolutely going too happen, if it doesn't happen in the first few years, it'll happen after the mid terms and he'll be in power.
Literally on his way out the door. This is this is one hundred percent going to happen again because he'll be emboldened, Couple reasons one it'll be embolden after surviving the first one to he will his the White House staff continue to rot and crumble. As it's been a crumbling for each week, he's been, so there's gonna be more weird and competence, more weird miscommunication something will happen: he'll be reached us talking to try about this offline. The other day, like all second terms, go bad and deteriorated so who ask? What's that gonna? Look like just any one, I'm one two percent convinced at this point that trouble being each twice try. Will every elected will tramping peach twice? Yes or no? What is it
Is the assumption underlying this question that Trump will do something that will prompt impeachment or that the Democrats will be so He had to do it again: that's I'll! Try as either it's up to you to Siberia, both. Why dont think the Democrats will try and in future minimised as a case you're because I dont think that they would have tried to impeach, over the Miller Report once it fizzled, I think, visits, but that's what we're this is the Mahler impeachment. While you- and I don't agree on that- I think that he did this now I'm still undecided as to whether its unimpeachable offence, whether it is good or bad that were in this process, whether I would vote to convict or not
whether its appropriate an election year. I am undecided on all of this, but I think this is. There is a bad, adequate another peach president and I think that There is a reason that the Democrats didn't do this over MILAN and and our doing it has. I think it depends on what time does. So. The question is a truck going to do something else if he wins a second term that could be construed as impeach of all, and the answer is probably yes, Luke Taps, so I mean how he might get in peace Thrice, who knows. Looking at the political dynamics leading to impeachment, I think the democratic will lose seats in the house. I don't think the lose them. Georgie. That will mean that the? U no wild, eyed fringe will have even more influence in their caucus in two years that it has. Now. I dont
see their grass roots getting calmer if he gets reelected now also the political dynamics that drove this one will only be exacerbated. Ah so yeah I mean I held a problem. From every month turned to someone and say it is weird, but this is what impeachment is? Oh I like it when you think back before trouble. Like to it or even in the early march, so much material you early parts of his office like it is weird right. If, if, if there but looking at the transcripts of olives calls and examining them for potential offences is king, that there isn't something about his hotels, his business, something so direct. It is this bizarre weird comes Here's a theory that he's peddling about the next election that it anyway but I did this is where Europe has come to this. This were a kind of torture wave and when his going back forth, you Luke that there is a
there's something wrong here and the way he did something wrong here and the backdrop. Is it just a key part of it? And yet yes I think so ridiculous. They haven't given up the Russia collusion theory, but the backdrop of it as all these things that have been inappropriate, but none unimpeachable on their own. So they finally reach kind of a tipping point that we got em and we could actually after our majority to do this so we're doing on this right. I mean it, but I agree that there there there I agree was improper. I don't know, I don't know impeachment was. The right remedy is one of the thing that tempers me on this is the conviction that it would, from thirty thousand feet, be peculiar if this was what led to the first american president being convicted that's not to say. I have made my mind up the way, but the context intrigues me here because, although I think that this is real-
and although I think that one can make an argument that it is impossible, I do wonder about the precedent that it would seem. At especially in relation to and relative to all the other things that President's have done for two hundred years. So my answer by the way on the double impeachment is also yes. So, with with that Let's go to one of our sponsors this week, which is burrow. We all know that whole out somewhere doors thing was nice nor long past us now tv is here and I'm not- the only one who is getting cosy with my remote control. There's a lot of college football though watch there's the in next durable, Tennessee, Titans March, to a division, title to Grippers every Sunday afternoon, silently glued my couch until I watch,
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I'm, not really the worst thing that you could set him about Trump, but got a laughing at their sleep. About him in this forty minutes. Press conference he had an Trump called Trudeau. Two faced left early. What do you make of it? Let's get the fact street. He call them to face an when we finish the sentence, he pivoted said he's a nice guy the lack of classic come. If you did not only through the election, he would say one thing and then he would say another and people would latch onto the one they prefer locked. Locker up she's been through a lot note: tat trees is dead, killed, JFK and his wife is ugly, but you know you know so anyway it was interesting. There's some rumours in other some rumours, maybe. Conspiracy theories that Boris Johnson and his team at
in Downing Street, very happy to see Trump leave early and give more remarks because the more trump is in the UK, the more potentially hurts Boris Johnson tories in their attempt to be elected at with a majority very shortly it was it was interesting. I actually began to think order about NATO. After this I know this was a silly event. I dont think trumps should have been that offended by the little giggling. It's not a surprise to him that he scandalize is his own staff. That their mouths drop open. He connection very easily spend that into a point of pride it's actually exactly. How? I imagine for leaders talk about Trump, The Turkmen, like a lot of media people, do like. I can't believe what we're watching here, but actually thought Crohn's common
about Nido are interesting, that What you have Mccrone is thinking is this new of this alike since that is dedicated toward the potential conflict with Russia that it encourages smaller states like Estonia like or even some larger states like Poland, to build up a capacity for WAR with Russia that is so specialised. It doesn't even really operate outside the context of NATO. Micron thinks that Europe's actual sick The concern is terrorism, specifically islamic terrorism, and in it, when you look at the strategic, The lay of the land for europe- you see, you know it's very obvious that for France and Germany, there is more to Lou
in conflict with Russia and much more to gain by cooperation? And that's why they're always flirting with more cooperation Alison, some of us on the side of the Atlantic might say: hey in a whenever the United them, is coming out with the Europeans, the french The Germans start looking longingly at Russia for some kind of help or alliance, but as I think the Those comments are interesting that, in a sense in a trump is out there complaining com and we are not contributing your two percent to this. Mission, which is about Russia and Mccrone sings brain dead or threat of islamic terrorism and the way: the lions works actually enfeebles. Europe's ability to deal with this problem, even enfeebles it to deal with its problems, AIDS in Libya, are elsewhere low wars that France jumped into so I am anyway, I just I thought it. It leaves
with the very interesting position in a kind of highlighted for me that maybe Mccrone has appointed least about european interests. In NATO being so divergent acid Mcclarnon resents in since the way that the central, turn Europeans almost half This, like favoured place in NATO because they're so on board with the mission, whereas he and Angela Merkel Unaware downgraded because they dare not as thrilled about this. This the rationale of this alliance mccrone could redrawing NATO. He would have Russia in Turkey out jolly. We obviously need major, so we can keep getting the baltic birch as the author of the Baltic Birches and borrow Macgyver supply cuts off, then there's no its, not calling for war, I'm at I saw this- I think NATO is imperative.
No objection per se to an american president telling non american members that their free lighting or they're not. Paying enough. I think that chumps rhetoric has gone far beyond that, which is why so many people within NATO, Or within NATO countries are nervous, my father does some working in Eastern Europe and Japan. Two thousand sixty an election. He said the fear was probable, especially when combined with breaks it. The problem of under funding and the way in which Mccrone spoke of NATO, I think, flow from the same mistake which to look,
the world ass. If it exists like this in a state of nature and always will, rather than as the product of institutions, NATO is a backbone. Of world peace. Many Europeans believe that European Union is the backbone of world peace, or at least peace in Europe. This is an hour. You mean you how, over and over and over again from prairie you types that The European Union has kept the peace in Europe. We haven't had a third World war. I don't think that's true. I think NATO has kept the peace American troops in Germany have kept the peace, and I think American, nay, supremacy which was inherited from british naval supremacy have kept the peace there. I am,
on a shame, ITALY per nature? I think european nations often have the wrong idea as to how important nature is. I think that president trumps attitude toward NATO is confused again, I don't mind putting some pressure on non american members to up their game. I do mind it when he ranges into talking about America first or essentially implying that NATO is useful, which I now Michael says, he's backed off off, but I'm not sure how much comfort that is to be sitting in Poland, as for chump, embarrassing the United States or inspiring other heads of state to snicker about him and he's not there. He is gossip about it,
Aviation is, though it stops talking about why? Why should we expect the heads of state to be? They must be fascinated by him in some ways. They must be more fascinated by him. Then we are because they have. To work with him. They have to deal with the fallout they are human as well. I think it will be strong, narrowly churlish president jumped to complain about people gossiping and being caught on microfinance. Doing so, What matters ultimately, though, is either the junior partner in NATO and everyone other than the United States is a junior partner. Recognise whether self interest lies and I'm at the end of things, much more interested in that than I am, and whether more crawl or Boris Johnson thinks that Donald Trump is a serious person which of course, he's nor Thompson. Why need just introduced
He has a white face in a black face with just objective. Its truth is, I think what was interesting here is: is macrones giving voice to a persistent french frustration which is of all of the Non America. NATO countries they have the greatest capacity for forest protection in their own national self interest broad, but there still largely depend on the United States for key logistical support, functions refueling that sort of thing- and that means
they they can either sort of cut sling load on their military spending or reduce their capacity to be an autonomous fighting force. The way say, the bridge of dawn with German stood after unification, but they also aren't really willing to spend the kind of money necessary to be autonomous and nobody in France. Europe wants to take France out of NATO the way they did in the sixties. I kind of thing a France capable of engaging in North Africa autonomously or with less reliance on the United States, is probably in America's national self interest to agree. I just don't know how we get there, but in some ways trump might be the political opportunity opening to make that happen. The but like having having mccrone drag down. Nato is
sort of collateral damage for his domestic or his policy. Frustration on this on this front, and I don't I don't have a good answer for it. I just I think it's interesting that you have your trump earlier in his administration was critical of NATO because he clearly wants to bring people around focusing on China and and not obsession with Russia as the primary threat to american Self interest Mccrone sort of slagging off NATO because he wants to act autonomously in North Africa in Chad and Molly, etc. Nato's justice convenient punching bag because, ultimately, mccrone is right in the sense that its reason for being is not what it once was. Russia aspires to have frozen conflict on its border, not to conquer Western Europe, and yet Russia's willing to engage in perfidious action that NATO is not well constructed to counter through either say propaganda
or political disruption in the russian sphere of influence. So one thing just as a matter of dramaturgy the though snickering wasn't, interesting, dramatic representation of Globalism Merce America first as ideas right that NATO is the institution that Charlie described it as it is fundamental institution of the Post war order that shapes the people, that are in it and the leaders that are in it and they are normally very comfortable with each other and trumps entrance To this is like a man station of how he literally is being treated as like an arab someone who isn't school in the manners of the system and one last point of NATO. I want to say when you saw the final pictures of all the leaders standing together, how many Americans saw that picture and said I feel so much safer now that the leader of nor
Macedonia is in this group. I'm just so glad that this man is going. Defend us when the Russians invade, just like the democratic lawyers, say during the impeachment proceed at me. I'm a NATO fan. I mean I hosted a conference on NATO four years ago. That was about trying to re capitulated like why NATO needs a new reason for being, as I do think, NATO should continue to exist and and I'll give trunk credit he's done. What neither the Bush the Obama administration succeeded in doing which is you know, essentially job boning and and threatening the Europeans into spending more money which we will need them to stop being as bad. A bunch of freeloaders, as they are. I just There's gotta be some better way of saying NATO needs to be open for re imagining without it either kicking off these histrionic anxiety, attacks about organ, get rid of NATO in cave the Russians or, on the other hand, have people say yes, let's get rid of NATO right. There's got to be some kind of way,
Gordon. I dont see the terms of that discussion. I truly cook s question to you. The future of NATO is a robust, be o k c over, I think, is robust anybody. I think. Can be a problem with Turkey real soon. So ok, look right, Must it solves the European Union's problem of having to figure out whether wants to have its own military and that extremely politically convenient for a lot of european countries, I'm somewhere between a and b? I wanted to be robust, but there are questions about its purposes. There is that turkey problem that de highlights and there's fact that allows european countries just don't wanna pony up. So that's the ok part of it so that with pause and hear from other sponsor this week,
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so we had LUCA Blockbuster development and democratic nomination. Raise the sweet with calmly Harris Shit in the world by dropping out of there. And might Michael's applauding so I don't know why I am followed. Come Harris very much? Prior this unjust took an instance just dead dislike to her her candidacy. Didn't even know who she was oozed insincerity the most insincere a laugh and american politics. This side of Hilary claim had a few moments. He had a good announcement out there in Oakland. Had the Biden bussing a moment, but she and some people on whether you made this person's well comparative. Look marker Rubio, not really quite knowing worse, where she was And this Democrats, spectrum and flitting back and forth and all
oh, is Charlie, pointed out had had some the most overreaching unilateral proposals in her policy arsenal, but would you make of it? I don't think the Rubio Comparisons Apt partially, because I think Harris she's, not that bad. No, I think. I think Rubio over performed his structural limitations within and setting aside his personal imitations, like as a candidate in the melting gum debate stage, but I think he over performed the structural constraints he was operating in politically during that primary, and I think she vastly underperformed them Harris even more than a Rourke, I think, is the is the candidate who who could have one this thing running smart campaign and blew it arose,
it's an asset that you ve got a set aside. I think a lot of people in the commentariat have a tendency to look at these primaries when they knelt down and say: oh, that was inevitable made. It was always gonna revel apart, because personal limitation acts was gonna, be fatal, roar. You know coalition problem, why was never going to be surmounted apple and these things are a lot more contingent in that? What do you make of it? Harris announced to twenty thousand people? That's an extremely impressive feet. Poetic That was a sign of real strength. She rolled out a centre left plan that gave us the opportunity to lean into a track record. Is a prosecutor leading into her history as a as an administrator oftentime very tough one, and then she like Corey Booker frankly panicked in the face of a sort of upsurge of voices on the hard line,
and ran that way and she ran away from herself and you cannot in politics, run away from yourself. When you have problems, you steer the prow into the wave and if it sinks you it was always gonna, think you, but most of the time it's not gonna, think you. If you try to stay away from it, the wave will catch you and it will capsize you and it's the end and that's what happened to her. I think that Harris does I have always felt that Harris's political talents were under appreciated on the right. She can be very warm and charming. That's a lot of the reason why the press gave her a really easy. Another early on she. Obviously, I think felt that she was gonna, be compelling candidates, South Carolina, that didn't prove out in the polling, but a lot of that's because she never really looked all that viable after an initial you know up taken the poles, which then relapsed, I would say, of Harris this
as she got more desperate. She got more outlandish in her proposals. The stink of death was on our campaign for very early on and, ultimately, what killed her was that she had one two, three, four five separate opinions on health care: the very thing that hurting Elizabeth, worn right now in many respects this The credit primary is going to be fought over whether you want to annihilate the private insurance system, or you want to preserve it within the confines of Obamacare. She took both sides that issue and killed her. It's the same thing that hurting me. Right now so Charlie, you wrote a very compelling and forceful obituary for the Harris campaign. I dont know why she felt at it No, why anyone thousands succeeded, contrary fathom, why don't I, fr. Mr President, a wife, Iraq Obama was president, I dont now people think I do know that I'm thrilled Belarus is out of the residing. I've been this happy since Fidel Castro died. She
is one of the worst people in american politics. She is grotesque combination of an the vessel? moratorium. She started. Her campaign by saying announce answer to almost every question. We should have a conversation about that. She couldn't decides what she thought. About anything if she received even slight push back is, she has almost nothing to offer in policy terms that isn't covered by sea. But he else it is notable. I think ass inside Giuliani pointed out that nobody, nobody has said since she dropped her
well now, we won't have her ideas advanced or expurgated. Nobody has been talking about Commoner Harris's platform. The complaints have been about her identity that she say, black mix trace. Woman will no longer be on the stage and at this stage, will now be dominated by white people insofar as Commoner Harris has ideas, they are pernicious. Ones are ones that should disqualify her from not just the press. As if it from the senators, while her recording California, if you are interested in criminal justice is calling Lara Babylon wrote about in the New York Times pointed out that not only did she resist any bill to soften the criminal justice system at the edges,
but she was quite happy to see people imprisoned off the evidence has been suppressed and procedures had been ignored. And it's no surprise, I suppose that she took this tack when running for president. She promised to seize patents. She promised to confiscate the four. The blame five to ten million guns? And she said over and over again that, if com grace didn't act on whatever it was. She was talking about it, time. Then she word she would give Congress one hundred days and then she would I, That is, of course not how the system works. There is no shot clock in american politics. Congress has a say: pass on day. One of the president. He s. On the last day of the presidency, the system is laid out for all to see in the U S constitution and she didn't care about that. In fact she mocked
people who care about that she laughed at Joe Biden, went to his credit. He said that it would be important for the president to follow the constitution and not just do whatever the president thought necessary. Sheep is not somebody who will be missed, she's somebody America needs. She is a bad bad politician and I'm please she's gone Any thoughts on Harris and stay there s the moment. I thought that I feel strongly about Harris when she and her name, but she was unappealing in many of her, public appearances and the moment Charlie identified when she responded to Joe Biden means
objection that one of her proposals was just plainly unconstitutional basically said I want to talk about. I want to stop talking about what we can't do start talking about we can do which is which is tyranny Yeah I mean this is tyranny according to James Madison, if I thought mean that she's Hitler I mean that James Madison unfettered Forty seven lays out the definite and of tyranny, and it is that its it was for a frightening moment, and dumb My only regret, though, is that she's being in a sense, were placed in the race my Bloomberg, who presents a softer author tourism is not going to throw you in jail for being too close to marijuana, which she is willing to say she smokes or but he is willing to find you for your big ol borer for feeding your kids
much of the wrong food or for cigarettes- So the stream is not dead, nor politics at all the general taken stay. There is a burmese back baby yeah he's women. It's happening is strong and I were pull out today- says he leads in California watch out exit question subway from that. Charlie percentage odds that two of Joe Biden, people Judge Bernie Sanders Elizabeth, worn or someone else winning the nomination percentage odds for each of the five cannot surpass abilities. Why would say now and again ignore me because I'm useless I would say that the one of those with the least chance now as it is with worn so maybe Elizabeth Warren is it
Ten percent and Joe Biden is it thirty percent and Bernie Sanders is thirty percent and maybe people to judges it twenty and everyone else is. Is it ten waiting for a break out moment? I think, give if Biden collapses, which we keep saying every week and never seems to happen, then, due to judge maybe well. While place- and I share Luke's sense that Bernie Sanders is doing better than he's being credit given credit, for. Yes, I was wrong about Bernie Sanders. I said it was the beginning of the end for him, when worn was rising, that's not true. Warrant is fading and that strengthening Buddha judge on one side and Bernie on the other and so I have to admit. I am
Increasing my arms forbidden to maybe fourteen fifteen from fourteen, like the Like five, I was five at one point. I was very low you're at fourteen. At some point you I think, the last! chicken eggs at fourteen. Is it fourteen and now I'm going to upgrade at two hundred and fifteen put vintage ahead of that, just because the strength in Iowa and the desire for it, like I, shall class to find its own candidate. So twenty percent due to judge Bernie. Twenty twenty five percent, at least so Bernie, would be a highest Bernie the highest for me right now I mean I I I mean missing my eye, He was dying at one I've gone back and forth. I started I can't we raise I'm sorry. I started the campaign saying he was very formidable.
And then his worn was rising and he was fading. I thought it was over. But he had in a real sense, stung the ice but he was arise coupled with the heart attack seem like right, and I thought that you knew he had kind of you know it was like he was a bug from outside the party that bit the parting infected with what He had to do, but now it's a slight he's campaign is more focused after the heart attack. Their making better choices. Public appearance, wise he's. Still showing its heart of energy for his age. In fact, he looks better than Biden in a lot of ways. By new. Hasn't it'll only suffered an eye attack, not a heart attack, so yeah so my Bernie. I you identified a mistake. I think. Our own thinking, but also one that had been shed by a good number of including myself and that is the Elizabeth Warren- seem to have a lot of soup.
From the wine track, crowd yeah, rather than from the Bernie crowd, and so when she started saying that she was going to spend fifty trillion dollars or whatever and taken of care and take it without get and those people set sorry what how much and then she vacillated on it, which alienated the Bernie people, who don't think that she has the guts to go through that answer and Buddha judge. Swooped in, and I had a very calm sort of response, which is Ocampo better care for all who wanted and here's my really walkie presentation and I'm not scary, I'm not gonna, take everything away from you and he he's capital on it, but it anyway it's it's an interesting raise its the bees. It's it's. You know Bernie Biden, Buddha Judge
and Bloomberg as wildcard without money. They are struck by last last weekend's summit tweet, I think, as Byron York, that's in its twenty fifteen reelection Buddha Judge got five hundred votes, a total like student counselled candidates, get get more total votes than that so low that fifty percent of the number of votes that Yossi gotten her partner. So low percentage eyes on these characters. Why I will say that binds persistence. Though it continues to lag and early states. I will go up from zero to ten. I will give him let him the big job too big jump I'll. Give him ten percent. I think Warren is, is fake I think, she's feigning, because she said I won't raise taxes on a middle class which said to her left wing supporters. She doesn't have the political courage to push through minute, Medicare for all and they're, probably right about that.
Ah, I see what you can do it and supposedly year, three hundred guy he's gonna, do it after she's blown off in the midst of the end after she gets rid of electoral college Warren. She said in the debate that she wanted more people to serve in the military, even though her entire plan hinges on cutting defence spending. By like eight hundred million dollars anyway. I'm sorry, I think that war and has sabotaged herself with her. Fifthly, on serious, even by the unserious, the standards of on seriousness of of democratic, helping care plans saying that she could give everyone healthcare without raising taxes killer with the media, and I think that put a death spiral. She could see. You call I merely wish we had an episode right after this new and you're really down on her and Annette facts of this would have on her you're right, I just. I think she neutron credibility with her left when supporters, I don't think it's the wealth tax. I dont think the wine track issue is that a lot of those folks were ready for it to take away private insurance. They were comfortable with it.
It's much more. That she's just seen as a liar, which you know given that she spent her entire career, promoting yourself based on an imagined native american heritage, should not be surprising to me one. I dont know exactly where to put her. I would say: Bernie is the presumptive front front. Runner now like bright, put him at thirty five percent, while boot is probably right behind him at thirty, so if either allocated all, but twenty five percent will give more and twenty and the field another five and look use. That burning is strongly general election candidate is an ominous nobody stronger than one as a general executed, dickies strong pressure. I wouldn't say that now I think, he's probably stronger than worn and he's probably the strongest one they have left in the field, because I think Buddha Judge has major mobilization issues. I dont think worn brings new voters on the sidelines and I think the job I know spit his dentures during a debate. So he's probably the strongest one left.
So I'm I'm uploaded Moron Biden as well Start fifteen than I edged up to twenty years at fifteen to twenty. For a long time. I forget, I came up again, I think the last time we discussed this have tried to make I had a numbers add up now side say twenty five for Biden I believe it's gonna happen, but I think he has more paths. You know he's forth an hour but is on a distant forth, its not crazy thinking when I or New Hampshire does that he's a nominee He has some possibilities. After him if he loses those places as well as long as is as these are not too behind and different people running the states. You know he could destroy Nevada and South Carolina, assuming he retained, Sir, is african american support. Buddha judge. I take really seriously despite it being ridiculous, but in a ridiculous things have happened, given twenty two percent
is surging. Obviously, in an hour in New Hampshire Bernie weigh up from where I would have a couple weeks ago. Twenty percent worried in presenting this is all by waiting. I have no idea what's gonna happen and I give everyone else of fifteen percent chance. Is probably getting a little more remote. Now concerted they're gonna have trouble qualifying for debates, but I still would wouldn't be shocked if they're, the fifth, actor in, and I was some someone catches fire there. That's not not that the top for, but I think this is gonna, be a completely a fascinating race and issues just really hard to have have any for my here, where it's going so with that, let's hit a few other things before we draw two close Charlie. You been taken with The latest season of the crown
I have. I know Michael already mentioned this show, but it's terrific. I was nervous after the first two seasons because they were great and the cost has been changed completely to reflect their different. Era in which the third season is sad, but it has at last Saturday, and the portrayal of Prince Philip is extraordinary was good and sees this one and two in season three. The writing is terrific. The way that he is portrayed is is moving its it's a very good, sir. I M sure some people listen to listen to you. Why would I want to watch her show about the royal family? It's not solely about the royal family they serve as the backdrop to a historical drama
that brings in a number of different areas in british history and places and british history and there is a one episode in particular in this season that is comparable to the first episode of Chernobyl. I wouldn't give too much away, but that that is the quality of so. I recommend the crown season three, which is on Netflix Luke Thompson. You then interacting with sidewalk Christmas tree. Vendors, New York City is the only way we can provoke Charlie citizenship. For this, can backsliding yeah, it's Christmas time in New York, which means that in one of the city's great hustles is underway. People are so incite Christmas trees on the sidewalk, and these guys are absolute sharks. They compete with one another in overnight. They find the most bizarre places to sort of hide their Christmas tree.
Stock and wears and then bring them back out, so loading docks and alleyways and construction site become these sort of furtive for us temporarily. I I think it's great and it really cracked me. I miss the smell spray. It smells much better than the normal nearsighted fathah anybody? You ve been watching the Netflix absurd on Is we love about homeless, yeah, so one Netflix Debbie, subtle series, it's like short documentaries about just like classic movies, a thing the first for they did, are dirty dancing, ghosts, bus at home alone and die hard, and just The story of how the money got made, how it was conceived, what problems faced during production, how it lucky and the one my family, much less than on home alone, was just fantastic about the kind of kismet and scepticism that people had about this movie, which the production
problems, it had the casting, it had, and then goes on to be abandoned by Warner Brothers, because they don't the pay. A whole one Two million more for the production, and I want to see the budget go from thirteen million to fourteen million. It moves over the fox and becomes the third highest grossing film of all time, so I'll I'll, a baseball ILO baseball on the radio and usually not till late January. That are really begin. Just like watching old, based baseball highlights all the time, but this here I have begun earlier I've list to the entirety of the radio broadcasts of game. Three of the Boston mask in eighteen. Seventy eight one of the greatest day, Yankee rigour season series of all time, I am now halfway through the audio of the tv broadcasts game, one of that Syria
and I'm enjoying it immensely. My wife, when I'm watching or listening to it is sporting event, will often asked me the loaded question with the undercurrent. Why are you doing this? Isn't that important game? So she asked us about this. I say yes, like forty years, give us like really boring, but I am learning more about your the game. Three was cold and windy and they serve baked beans in the press box, to the game, Butch hops, I didn't realize this was really banged up the Red Sox, their basement and had at this point the season, high thirties and errors, and also pathetically caught up in in the action so game through the Yankees. One seven, nothing and I know they one seven nothing right, but is when it was still zero, zero there were most was on first and ready Jackson hit described the left. Your lives like here is a good start scoring Uno. Yes, Grimbsy catches. It doubles months now, first month, cursing under my breath over this game,
where I know the result, but I've I've least founded mentally enjoyable, and especially this is my hobby horse Michael's. You know the pace of play is just the innings actually move, and things happen that that's really enjoyable as well, so that let's go to her editors picks anybody, what's your pic, I think, is a column by David Sonny called president from his conduct, some historical perspective, and what team does know as the impeachment proceedings are going on, and people are contemplating the idea of impeachment its of end from office, which has never happened David does Four view of how bad presidents have acted before some of these awful things Woodrow Wilson did passing the sedition act. Pudding A socialist into war protesters in jail,
he's Nixon in Lyndon. Johnson did that word horrifies to recall and be noticed. If some perspective on whether we really think that this is the It is time to use them severe remedy the constitution gives us for presidential misbehavior Jacob. What's your pick my pick, is Michael Brendan, Diabetes s, air, which he suggests that both conservatives and progressives, both Republicans and Democrats. Believed that the culture war is more important than president Trump. We hear a great deal as Michael points out about deed deal that evangelicals have made, as required suggests that evangelicals really do believe that there are under threat. They really I believe there is an excess central fight as a result. There
they all willing to ally themself themselves with with President Trump Michael says: yes, ok, but progressives have precisely the same view and if they didn't and they would be willing to offer something. Michael references Rostov it and others who have said that the left doesnt act as if it believes that Donald Trump represents an existential threat to the country. On the contrary, it acts as if Donald Trump is perhaps
it is in that they can use to push the call to all more in their direction. It's an excellent piece lieutenant to us your bit, I'm an opinion, an article by Alvin Felsenburgh from the summer night print addition that is essentially a book review, but is actually a much more interesting piece. It's about the Buckley debate with James Baldwin in Cambridge Baldwin got the better of Buckley. I think both on emotion and the merits.
Baldwin was a genius. Buckley was at that point earliness career and I think the felsenburgh is unsparing in his assessment of Buckley wrong headedness on racial questions at the time of the debate, but then uses this books, unfair treatment of Bucky's life career to trace how he changed and moved frankly, into a position much more. I think, recognisable to conservatism of today. If you haven't watch the debate its available on youtube- or at least it was a couple years ago- and it's it's worth- so my pig is Kyle Smith's new peace and the print issue, which is the cover, Kyle's Isley, a brilliant iter and rights at his best. When he's mean- and this is among his means- Recent pieces about PETE Buddha Judge, but it is highly enjoyable and highly recommended, that's it for us.
The Saint to view review podcast any re broadcast retransmission countess game. Without the express written permission of national you magazine strictly prohibited. This podcast has been produced by the incomparable Sarah shitty who makes it sound better than we deserve. Thank joy. Thank you envy. Thank you. Luke thanks to borough and equip, and thanks specially to all of you, for listening. We are the editors. It was you.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-24.