« The Editors

Episode 182: Senate Bound . . . Maybe

2019-12-19 | 🔗

Today on The Editors, Rich, Charlie, Michael, and Jim discuss yesterday’s impeachment vote and last week’s stunning British election.

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The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
An arch. Twenty twenty Rhine crews will be the trip of your lifetime. So come we ve charted the luxurious Amara, which will sail April Menteith to the twenty sixth and visit Cologne, Amsterdam, Strasbourg and other glorious Rhine River cities awaiting. You will be wonder by food. This does parties and tours plus great policy discussions with Dan Hannan, Rich Lowry, Avenue slays Charles Kessler and many more great conservatives. Space is very limited visit and crews, dot com for more information, our readers and baby in peace.
It heads to the Senate, or does it bores, John, becomes a conservative future, or does he will discuss all and nothing else on this special history edition the editors, omelettes Larry, I'm adjoined, as always by the right, audible, Charles, see, W cook Jim. Let's mess up our draft order, Geraghty and the tories- oh, do Michael Brenda, dirty or listening to a national view, podcast sponsor this week, is ten books in the wonderful new book, by our friend and colleague, Catherine Jean Lopez, here with the mystics if listeners podcast on sure you dot. Com are delighted to have you, but it would be. Your view and better for us. If you made as part of your feed, any the streaming services out there from Spotify to Itunes. And if you like what you hear your please consider giving us a five star review on Itunes. You don't like what you here. Please forget. I said Annie
right. So, Jim Clarity, we got history, we had a historic vote last night, on the floor of the house to articles of impeachment charging president throb with abuse of power and obstruction pass handily with just a couple democratic serve flaking off to on abuse power, three on obstruction and tossing gabert taking the statesmen like posture burning present. We make it absurd its area stretch there s a really getting article law, Jani, look a little bit extra up with that. Little but yeah I want to say that my energy for the utterly exciting per democratic presidential debate tonight because that's well scheduled yes, six days before Christmas opening night, a star wars, good timing, DMZ good job look: this was long predicted. I
you know. There was the only part of this process. That was the least bit surprising, was most people didn't see Jeff Andrew changing parties, if first as as far as of this taping, that appears to be all systems go, and most of the purple and red District Democrats falling in line I wonder if these two are related that once when routes which parties may be policy started YO arm twisting on this idea, I think the related different way. I think what happened Andrew. He just events gets the inquiry and he has a catastrophic drop of support in the party is like twenty percent approval, so young not getting nominated. You know he's not going to see it again as a Democrat, and I think you know open to the idea that these democratic generally outraged by trumps conduct. But I think they also saw that there There's no way out of this for them, except for through. So, if you verdict
these articles unless you're a real special in a very trompe district Liken Petersen is from Minnesota that You just have to vote for it and grin and bear it in and hope you can win over any swing, voters and Republicans. Voters you need, in November down the line. Yeah. I think also. This may reveal their probably weren't that many folks and arab Democrats him districts where this vote. It's gonna be maker, make or break Joe Cunningham's or the world in South Carolina, first district, that's gotta My parents live down and Hilton, head and and kind of quick growing. Southern corner of the state he's, probably toast anyway, so miserable his conscience. You know why. Why defy the party arc and stuff that I was somewhat surprising interesting, but you knew that there was. I think that the most the biggest number you hurt tossed around four, the crabs. Voting no was like six to ten new we expected to disobey really that much of a close vote,
and so you know we are either group but whipping, or is this a sense that most people said well now myself in for a penny in for a pound mice? All for me I hope that our our voters agree with us. You know That was somewhat interesting. I'm sure we'll talk a bit about the be weird situation that Nancy Policy and in the in advocates for impeachment, find themselves in now I don't. Today's morning job, I wrote a bunch about what they're a moment where you could have gotten a fairly by partisan majority for a resolution of censure or some other sense of saying. Mr President, you should I've done this. You can't do this. You don't have this kind of authority if you think there's sort of corruption going on with Joe Biden or something we have defined when of justice. This has to be done through official channels. If we went through an I found, nine House Democratic House Republicans had made various comments. Got in that vein. Maybe you could hear them on board, but you know what whatever the Democrats and impeachment advocates think should be the case
You were just never gonna get any house Republicans voting for this may be at a shot at weren't. You like Rooney down in Florida, but really it was always gonna, be a party line vote and I dont think Trump. We know. To this extent, Trump is capable of feeling shame which is measured. On the molecular scale Probably he bore annoyed by a bipartisan resolution of censure. I think that by this that is easy to walk around. This is a bad. Your pride is to say this partisan vendetta. This was a witch hunt, yadda yadda yadda, whereas if you got The Deuce number House Republicans debates to border something that didn't call for impeachment. Just said the president, the this. Maybe it would have been a lot more consequential. This was ultimately about making the base the Democratic Party happy and uh yeah. I hope I helped its are happy now like out. You want, I hope so I hope you walk around with a sad somber spring in your step as it has Monica censure. I thought you that would be better for them to go now a kind of
you know what it become. Justice parson, as impeachment largely in omit, may be Jim. Your nine promptly enterprise fear that maybe get like five house Republicans better zero and and losing a couple cats and dogs on on your own side, but I do think you'd get it. The a real shod, not a real Shiloh likelier than not to get over fifty vote for censure in that the Senate, so that be more by Parson, rebuke doesn't live in history with an and quite there and quite the same way, but Michael I've saved addressing save her from Jim. But what do you make of the case? substantively. The Democrats end up landing on, which is by large, he's a threat to the election, which sort has that the backdrop that he somehow welcomed foreign interference into the last election, which They they incredibly enough base when, when I talk about in more detail on trumped saying at the press, conference only
If you know, if you can hack your emails, finer old emails, Russians, every listening, do it and You said so they say just can't be trusted run this next election clue welcomed Ukrainian. During this time around and also that endangered national security. Through this scheme, I mean I don't rolling a lot of it. A lot of the case. I I do take the point that if you believe, as I do, I believe to be the case can be made. The present abusers power there good enough evidence, at least to look into whether he asked for a sham investigation or just an announcement of an investigation for political benefit. The larger question I do take Luke's constantly repeated point, though, that the
it has an interest in knowing what Joan Hunter Biden or up to on the obstruction. I think that's just a joke at this point I mean it's just they wanted Nancy Pelosi, basically couldn't even finished the sentence of asking for transcripts before the White House just released them, and there was nothing in the additional testimony that indicated that there was anything beyond the transcript that was really incriminating. That really added to the case so I mean if, if anything, they should be passing emotion, congratulating him for helping the case of impeachment. I mean not obstructing it. So it's it's an odd thing. I mean you know it's funny when you, when you was reading. You know Alexander Hamilton on impeachment again
rushing my memory once more and he talks about in these terms of you know they have to constructed in this way, because the set the Senate trial what other body of men would have the confidence to sit between the president and the the representatives of the people as his accuser and it puts interesting about it shows you I'll, be home and he worries that partisan passions would corrupt. This will that was very prescient, because Partisan allegiance has totally eclipsed the sense of these three separate branches of government operating independently of one another legally, they operate independently, but practically speaking there, the two parties are the motor on running. Underneath our politics
so anyway. It's some, I thought I think in our lifetimes impeachment has almost been destroyed as a constitutional provision, because it's been launched twice in the absence of two thirds majority sentiment for impeaching in removing the president, and so this thing has become de fanged, almost totally and looks partisan ill you now. It's like our expectation is that you only launch impeachment, because the base of one faction demands it and damn that's, probably a tragedy for the american people, and also it's probably just
politics, long term for Democrats in the sense of he's going to survive this, they knew he was going to survive this. Maybe they hope they would put some Senate seats in play through this process. I don't know if that's I don't know if impeachment adds to the the Trump effect on certain senatorial candidates that might be weak on the republican side, butt now. They would have a very difficult time if Trump does something else, something more that excites more outrage among a larger share of the public. This ban already gone off in an already failed to remove him. It will fail to remove them from office, so no, no, it was. I thought it was just a very odd event. I thought. The drama of it was kind of funny with the black Weena with the Democrats wearing Black and me
he Pelosi trying to shush prices that doesn't make it should clearly a grandmother with a lot of experience, jarring, listen, managed lately. Policies you're sitting? Should the daughter of a bolt more mayor is going to have some just natural authority, but I mean it. It did give this What Jim said the somber spring in their step? I mean it was just dumb. It was bizarre. That's all However, this was bizarre. It with this whole thing has been bizarre from beginning to end Charlie? Where are you on the substance because then that trumps a conduct, but I'm really and where per mouth had strong view one when one way or the other on impeachment, or removal seized me they're couple different ways to look at it just within our own house anaemic, Thea myself tend to make the consequential list argument. Well, you know nothing came of this. They delayed affirmed the funding for two months. They get the funding. There's no. Now
restoration. I would even argue that they announced an investigation, bring my would have zero effect on Election or really interfere in our election, but Rematch who favours impeachment says well, it doesn't really matter what the consequence was that the core impropriety here of being willing to. Leverage public resources for what was clearly something that had political motive- that at bottom related to election and mixing mixing his official duties without motive in this this way, just intolerable and didn't matter whether it was stopped or not. Does not matter whether the little thing or a big thing, it's just that most its self is disqualified. I dont bother consequences case at all.
Imagine. If we had learned that President Obama had instructed Lois learn attic after tea party groups. Would we have said when she didn't do it or what it was called for tat season was over or in the game the scheme of things it didn't effect much now who's, not trumpeted this. The fact that it didn't too much is- is neither here nor there for me doesn't mean, though, that I'm thrilled about what happened yesterday. In fact, when it happened, I felt irritated and I instantly thought just how close to the Clinton impeachment this has been. In both cases, the President did what he'd been accused of and in both cases he was let off
case will be that of a by his party. In both cases, critics of impeachment pretended that the president was being in peace. For something innocuous in neither case was that true, the language is similar representative loud milk and has a name compared the House of Representatives of Pontius Pilate and the President implicitly to Jesus recited standing iron. Ninety ninety eight both impeachment settled, on behaviour that was arguably impeach, but in both cases, TAT was not really why the impeachment DR had begun. You go back to Clinton Clinton's impeachment came after years of
public. In saying the guy was a philanderer, maybe a rapist that he was dishonest. He was corrupt. It came off the white water cattle futures scandal and travel agencies, scandal by the point that the Republican House impeached Bill Clinton it just knew, but he was worse than the articles of impeachment themselves suggested. I think the same is true of drum Democrats have said for a long time now that he's a philanderer, maybe a rapist that he's dishonest, that he's corrupt the impeachment has come after mullah. The emoluments cases and watching chump,
right, the media and tweet like an idiot and set by the point that they impeached him yesterday. They just knew, but he was worse than the articles of impeachment suggested. I think I would have voted for need In fact, I think I would have oppose all three of the impeachment we seen in american history. I said this before but it is odd, given some of the terrible things president's have done colluding in my lifetime, that all three of the impeachment that we ve you seem so small, so partisan so contain upon the surrounding politics, rather than a break from it and all three. Seemed so likely sorry, so am I key to prevail it it's you to me that throughout the history Americans have not breathe
a great deal of seriousness into the impeachment clause of the constitution, and this latest impeachment star exception. So I am the word used. Excoriated when it comes to jump, Including on this and when it comes to the Republicans and the way to their fallen in line with him and pretended his call was perfect in there's nothing to see him, but I feel sad, in general, because either
think that anyone has taken this seriously from the beginning, including yesterday Donald Trump, certainly didn't the Republicans haven't to and nor the Democrats Nancy policies, not sad she's, not somber. She doesn't think this is grave. She's not praying for the President snob, protecting or saving the constitution and the people who ultimately pushed Nancy policy into this. Could she didn't want to do it do not give two hoots about the constitution? In fact, they generally loathed the constitution and they are happy to say so. I find it odd that impeachment has come in America,
street when it has on the topics that it has. I was said earlier that it may be a censure. It would have been a better option. Perhaps, but that's what this is about, what this was for Clinton. And is what this is for top when you know full well that the Senate is not going to convict and you push and impeachment through the house. Anyhow, you are effectively censure being the president you're using a different mechanism to do it. But you are effectively censuring the president and I think that that is a tactical mistake. Even if. You believe that the underlying high crimes and misdemeanours would warrant such a measure in a vacuum, so unpleasant
actually, maybe naive. I don't doubt that she praise for tromp and I think appropriate for anyone when he one says they're praying for you lived preparations. Thank you. It's not like no there's no way you're doing that stop lying. But Emily pick up my anything you so you heard from Troy. I just I think the norm. There's a tenant tells you to think too point of Nixon impeachment. That's the model that's the norm, but now we have a different norm, wurtz and inflamed partisan majorities in the house that that do this with least the recent examples no chance of connecting it came within one vote, convicting jobs. So I really relate to Charlie's feeling lastly being alienated from the process, because, on the one hand, what the president did was worth condemning and on one about.
If you're seeing what are your standards and be d for impeachment, this qualifies right, I mean Thank God. We don't go by my standards for public office. You know, Duncan Hunter Junior would have been horsewhipped in public Gus Congress members that repainting yesterday would be tarred who feathered it's a great most. To me and to all my colleagues at my standards do not prevail in our country you do to your colleague anyway. Advertisement asked eyes met with, etc, but I agree with currently they some serious enforcement of deadlines here, for once, Michael really put you in charge. I know, but I agree with at my own. I agree with you know. Charlie, like Reencontro, was more serious offence. Then this, though, Lincoln bedroom scandal was more serious events in this the invasion of Libya, the bombing
Sudan, ahead of impeachment, was a more serious events in this: the invasion of liberty on undeclared drone warfare in several countries attempts at regime change in Syria without congressional approval. Actually, even against congressional approval Johnson seeking the entire community on Goldwater theirs so many offences presidents of both parties have conducted in my lifetime. It seems so much more serious than this idiotic phone call, which was wrong that I find it hard. I my senses that the the motive for impeachment, isn't actually the offence. The offence was just the usable excuse right, but
If you try to choice right down in both cases, it has built up and went to a deeper issue, then what the the impeachment itself was about right, right or but mean fundamentally I mean I think this is you know in both And the trump impeachment you have an opposition party in Congress there is shall shocked by the political defeats. The president has been inflicting on their Marty and a party that is I that the country doesn't see the president as the fraud they see the president, as so, I think, Charlie's comparisons very, very. Also that believed that it was destined to rule now. If you look at the republican Party was shocked in ninety ninety two that Bill Clinton this draft budget.
Smoking. Womanizer had beaten, George W Bush after the coroner. That the Reagan Revolution had supposedly tat. And it was especially shocked when he wondered action fairly easily and began to wonder what are we now going in a different direction and I think the same thing happened was trample that was far more appalling to progressive that Trump One, not only because, He represents everything they hate and he is capable in some ways, but also because they are more prone than others to believe. In the coming of the age of Aquarius and bending of the arc of history and so on and to replace, broke a bomb with Donald Trump, the shocked and system. So Jim, let's davilow, let you you touch on this earlier, the current policy gambit. I cannot believe that this gambit will last much past the weekend. It seems so upset
Wesley self destructive, but the idea which- and this is not a great credit to this idea that apparently originated with Lawrence Tribe- of holding the articles I think tribe just wanted to hold them indefinitely, so you wouldn't get acquitted, but The idea is that the hold them- and this is gonna- make Mitch Come so upset he is so I would ask for it to have. The articles thrown out lab, they say Ok, let's have a trial, the way Nancy, blowsy and Chuck humor wanted and problem here Mitch. Mcconnell isn't gonna feel that way. Obviously it contradicts the the aim that last month that we Democrats can't go witnesses more witness first hand. Witnesses could have a take time, and this is an urgent priority. The nations that risk every day that the president is an isn't impeached in removed,
then, finally, just obviously like a game. You know it makes it even see me more partisan and political than it has to this point. Yeah, I'm in the general just Trump is enough. Rotarian shagging, go ahead, I'll Alsace, my phone up of the blues version. Things are so bad for him to each other let's see how, in short, the message from the Democrats is Trump is an authoritarian. He has no regard for the constitution. He is a threat. We cannot wait until the next election. He might speak removed as quickly as possible in a good way till after the holidays, No, no, no contradiction there. I kind of both the only witness you got any better is, I don't know the Connell's already given his initial statement and kind of scoffing about this. But if you just got out there and said
Please don't throw me in that Briarpatch, oh, no, it would be terror. If I have my senators of my caucus, couldn't vote on trumps impeachment, which would be broken up. I gotta see Wednesday the thinking of Democrats. Both office and and the activists left on twitter having this recognition for long time, their thinking it s. Twenty answer the question: how can we, impeach Trump All of a sudden around the middle, the weak became question await. How can we stop the Senate from Acquitting Trop, which is a very different question and it the other this idea of well the car the Commission says the Senate holds the trial about doesnt safety when it has to hold the trial, and we could. I get an entire miscalculation of the orders and priorities and and interests of Senate Republicans. I, it conceivable that for Senate Republicans would say by it.
It could be your Mitt Romney at some point to say by Golly. Nancy policy is right. These rules are unfair. We do to call a lot more witnesses and than we do need to take a lot more time on this, so I will take stance with the forty seven Democrats to insist that Mitch Mcconnell take a break fairer set of rules. We're all certain by the way that Bernie Sanders and with warrants and Corey occur and Amy Globe Ajar and Michael Bennet. All. Is long trial as possible right everybody on board, for this whole thing, we're that here from every witness in this drag on three January and February, they would be able to campaign in Ireland and Embryos on board occasional, monsieur on that It really bizarre. I now find myself thinking that this is of the ridiculous cherry on top on what has been a largely bad faith process since the beginning
that in a way for the house to impeach Trump and then to never send it to the Senate in order to have a trial, see up The liberal Democrats may well look at this and say: hey. You know what that is, It violates the constitution, but as Charlie, pointing to a bit of a really worry about that. Much of that very much before a trump getting acquainted would be worse for the country than us, never sending it over to the Senate, because the moment we, but we can all do math right. You're gonna get most of the forty seven Democrats voting for this, maybe not Joe Mansion. I think dog, Joe probably says in for a penny in for a pound, maybe a lose one or two other one or two other democrats. And then you end up with you know: maybe Romney would vote, for it may be more cow ski, maybe one or two others. You're, not gonna get the twelve that you know it. Publications brought the bulwark were thrown around their sea and up the situation? Words of both that of forty six, forty, nine, fifty one or something- and you know trump- is gonna, go out into the White House lawn and to in victory
and see it as a complete exoneration because they could get the two thirds was it so if you're, if you really see chopper, does leave punishment even more- and I did tat at this time like it up That's why the video singing a well. He would would abide with a bipartisan resolution of censure done. More have actually said clear signal to the present. You should do this I don't know, but we all know where this is going and we could see where this is going from the beginning and it like midday on Wednesday. Democratically relies hey, wait a minute we're not getting close to sixty seven votes, wouldn't get outta the so This is still keeping the impeachment in limbo, taking the two artist so impeachment and freezing them carbonate ticking
got the rules for weeks or months. It's only a great idea to me. I love this idea, but just as the sheer ridiculous of it. This is why partisan impeachment is such a disaster, because, in a sense, the the way impeachment set up is supposed to be the house. The elected representative, the people accused the President, the Senate. Try an impartial Senate tries the president without Republicans, taking this seriously the guilt. That Democrats want to heap upon Trump for being, okay with election interference, etc. Inevitably spreads. To all the Republican Party in their minds right, so the Senate become key operators and Mitch Mcconnell becomes Moscow Mitch again and Vice President Pence. Because he's not resigning protest, while even if you impeach trump he's also in some way connected to this guilt so in a sense
reveals itself as parties as just a tool. Citizenship, and not some kind of some alarm sad duty that the constitution imposes on Nancy Policy and our peers, so it it just. Doesn't it doesnt work, this the Charlie last question on impeachment. You care one where the other, whether this central has witnesses were, I think, it's up to the Senate. I'm not sure that Jim presented the best argument from the democratic side. The argument, as I see it, is that the Democrats believe, or at least their position is that what Donald Trump demonstrated with his Ukraine phone call is it here?
repaired to cheat in the next election and that, as a result, he needs to be removed before the next election. So it doesn't matter if you wait until after Christmas, because the key is getting him out. Before he can run again and in their eyes cheat again and from that perspective, its worth waiting, because the Senate is not good to be fair, is not going to consider this seriously and is therefore going to exonerate Trump. For me, he will run in the next election now. This is a bad argument, not least because the house could have done every thing that it wants the Senate to do it could have brought in any other witness that it wanted to bring it that it did not is not the leadership of the sun,
This problem and the leadership in the Senate is in no way obliged to make up for the house's mistakes or oversight is also an extraordinarily city idea, because there is no leverage chair the Senate I do not want to be sent these articles. The republican party doesn't want to deal with it. It doesn't want to vote, on it. Susan Collins doesn't want to vote on it. Corey gardener doesn't want to vote on, Mcconnell doesn't want to have those meetings and he doesn't want to be accused of being Moscow, miniature collaborator or any of the other things that Michael says is a very silly plan that is built upon. Misreading of what this would do. I dont think that Mcconnell and Trump would sit there and say I can't believe I've been left in limbo
I think that Mcconnell would breathe a sigh of relief that he doesn't have to deal with it and try would run around the country saying that so weak. That case was so flimsy. It was such a stunt, but they didn't even transmit the articles to the Senate. These people wasted time. They wasted money, they solid my good name and they were prepared to follow them. We have all seen Donald Trump Rally We ve all seen how Donald Trump tweets taking advice and large dr at this stage, is perhaps not a good idea. In fact, is such a bad idea. That I wonder at one level whether it's a pretext for essential Lee, rendering the impeachment a censure vote and drawing a line, under age. So now I'm not, I think she's she's transmitting them no.
We will do it. I'm just saying this argument, which has caught on in some quarters, makes no sense was there, and so you have to assume Nancy Policy who is not stupid, and it's not politically ignorant will know that, but that the specific question you asked, I don't think the house should have any say over what the the Senate does. The house had its turn. It could have lasted a year. This investigation of it had wanted to pay. Didn't now it's onto the next chamber for anybody exit question to you Especial historic, double barreled extra question. The number of republican senators voting to convict in the Senate will be what and
yes or no, will there be witnesses during a Senate, there will be witnesses and zero Republicans will vote to Jim getting to minimal witnesses. If any are basically, it's gonna be there colonel plan of rules, maybe throw them a bone here, they're just to get this thing going and will be done. By the end of January. But you use It can be to Republicans The iranian regime- rakowski- probably try cook, I think I'll be any votes to convict on the republican side, and I think that will be a few democratic can defections and no witnesses.
That's correct answer will be zero, zero new republican votes to convict demagogic and pointed out the other day that actually obviously really small sample size, but the true prior Senate I'll know, member the presents party has ever voted. To convict that was only nine. I believe democratic centre during the Johnson impeachment, but no democratic centres during the Clinton impeachment. I think that will hold up here. I think, if you just do impure politics, it is a debacle for you, If you're Susan Cowan Sir Mitt Romney different, he has a degree of independence but you're, just gonna lose your own party, the suit Susan columns wool be over if she boats to convict. In my estimation, an on witnesses. I think that closer com, if you know they're gonna flake, on something Romney Mc Caskey Collins. It would clearly be witnesses. My view not not the ultimate question, but I think,
Mcconnell. He knows what he's doing he's gonna will no more soon, but you know he's trying to get there somewhere process to the current impeachment, where you do that the real the ground rules first, and you hear that the case first and then you vote on witnesses and his calculation is just after two weeks of this and would take about two weeks. There can be a zero appetite. For continuing, I think said the default rule is on dance, while mentioning to me they go Monday. Saturday, which is like unheard of before the Senate to not be allowed to run home on Thursday and yes it there can't say anything and you're gonna hear these things over and over again we ve already got sick of. Could we ve heard herded report the last two months, and then you you ask questions on a no card. So the time you're in the second week of this going up against stir a holiday weekend coming up the early the next week,
after that. I know that should matter and a fifth great historic Senate trial, but will that you're, probably Republicans, will just just been ready to to vote and to did but, as I said, will no more soon so it's pause in here from a sponsor this week, ten books, publisher of Catherine Lopez's, book lucky earth mistakes, there's so much noise? Everything seem like a distraction. Attraction, in fact, seems are oxygen when's. The last time you saw people talk in an elevator, we seem to play everywhere. We have your phones screens, don't even look up, never mind find time for silence. Our hearts need quiet how we ever going to pray. Otherwise, how can we ever possibly God's love and will and the truth about ourselves and the world without resting in him in a year the mistakes, popular naturally, a journalist and commentator Catherine, she Lopez Rights has been frequently about faith in public life and per in the church offers readers a tour of the magnificent
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was on the right side bourses destiny and a good way, but had to be prodded. Jim was quite confident. I was I was less confident but also said man of destiny, but you you Your worry he's a man of the throng. Yes, I was not. So I was nervous the two, seventeen snapple action. There were times when trees, may was pulling at sixty five, seventy seat majority and she lost the Tory Majority and had to go and coalition. It was a disaster. She had made. Syria, schemes in the Labour heartlands in that election, but not enough to actually put them to the Tory Party. Well, you know you could say she took a swing with the. King ball, in that election and the edifice stood joy and took a swing and the whole block came down. This was
dawning election result. The poles were pretty good for Johnson, the Tories going into the election people rejecting somewhere between at ten and forty see, majority conservatively and being an ABC majority and at a realignment election effectively where labour lost the labour vote. Labour lost the work close vote overwhelmingly lost its heartlands, overwhelmingly in Wales in England it lost them. Territories in Scotland lost them to the Scottish National Party, and the Labour Party has to completely has to look at itself a mirror and decide. What was it that did ASEAN was it breaks at the door? in our party was a german carbon Hulu. It's too far to the left. And was unsuitable as Prime Minister,
Was it both or is it that we ve become a party for college aged marks, and nobody else that we alienated both the traditional working class. Part of the party and enough of the upwardly Mobile Metropole, though that they one under Tony Blair so stunning result breaks. It will happen on January thirty, first They will exit and move into a one year, trade negotiation with the European Union and were hearing that the fixed term parliament's act, which is what caused such a chaotic parliament. At the end there late this year, That is going to go away.
Damaging victory, and it raises serious questions, though, about what kind of party will the Tories be it's much bigger party now represents different parts of the country. Very from constituencies and Johnson has been saying, we have to prove ourselves. We to rise to this moment and do something for these voters and what has been promising so far is bending like crazy on public services, so we'll see I'm curious what other people here think of might be the lesson as for other conservative parties, who find that former left wing, left party voters that are more were working class Downwardly mobile or more open to voting for conservative parties now across the west Is this a model, or is this non replica ball? In the absence of german carbon or briggs?
it or some defining issue. I mean I'm, I'm I'm curious. I dont think it's quite replica bowl. Here on that scale, but those results faster. I think a lot of political consultants will be chewing over them, not just in the UK, but all over Europe and America said Jim you. You are surprised by either the outcome, and as much as I'd like to glowed about that. Ill either was either natural optimism or mostly a sense that the people there a kingdom. What we're just sick of the inertia sick of debating breaks it for the better part of three years stuck a neutral, and I think, probably with jumps out about that Extra last week, the most is the great which we all got. How many times have we seen a? close election, mostly here in the United States, where organ out you have your your hung, parliament's. You have you situation where you the voters speed. And their answer isn't terribly clear,
In fact, the two thousand election of a number of times where it's been cut. Yeah? Well, you actually get a solid win Were you know? Is it ok you're that you really feel that was kind of fun to hear that you have Corbin had the up at the next day where we want? The Argo but we just get anyone to vote for us the allocation- and I know you did when the argument, because your argument was vote for us it out that this was, I think there some of this may reflect the fact that, without the argument for the bricks it referendum was good Heavens, if Britain goes forward with breaks it, the economy, will collapse and and you'll see shortages of goods in the stores and anarchy? cats and dogs living together, dialect invasions. You know every every disaster scenario for the UK without there and by law You didn't happen in our rashly. The economy did pretty well right afterwards in the year
the doom Sayers setting a lot of people said I you know, I didn't check out that then maybe this isn't this. You know I can suicide, that they kept insisting. It was so many nor have we can go forward with us, and I think that is no way to spend this as a antibiotics. Response. You could probably argue that Corbett may have been a bigger factor, but I'd look. Life has lessons and one of them is don't hang out with Anti semitic, not jobs or go. Don't don't make uses for em, don't run this old, crazy. Russia are you listening Democrats, you know You know so, as I was feeling pretty good about this, the good guys, one rich member spelling, we were do, We would do for a while, but on the doom your thing you know it. It was three years right, the in the bricks vote in two thousand. Sixteen, the government Cameron's government and his chancellor George Osborne predicted that, even if the just by voting for bread
the pound would crash. They would have to pass an emergency budget. All these services would be cut, etc, and there like a little deepen the pound the day of the vote, but then the economy expanded minutes not as Busters is the american economy, but it's been doing well for three years. All of those expert predictions turned out to be totally false, and maybe that has sunk in that Finally, the worst case scenario is not coming to pass at all such I give us here: your glass on the election and little digging a little bed on what this might mean further in the future, the Right and Anglo America wow. There are two main contributing factors to that too,
his victory and its size, which was considerable, matched, of course, by the diminishment off the Labour Party to a size. It has not been since nineteen thirty five. The first was breaks it. The second was Jeremy carbon breaks, it had not just dragged on it had been dragged on. There had been a conspiracy to drag it on Paul and was still out of kilter with public sentiment and with the referendum. Many people within the british establishment made it their business to block breaks it. Some of them were in the Supreme Court, doesn't fulfil the same role and can't shouldn't as the American Supreme Court
somewhere in the press summer in parliament itself summer outside of parliament, Michael Hesitant and Tony Blair, were to them. There was feeling I think among the electorate that it was time to move on four advocates of breaks it was move on and do what we voted for and for those who didn't necessarily vote for breaks. It'll, don't even want a breaks. It was a feeling that fair play was being undermined and other matters. The second problem for the Labour Party is the Jeremy Corwin, it's a lunatic, it's not an especially bright man
he is a man who was incapable of weeding out the ugly elements within his party elements that flooded in at the same time as he became later, many of which Him later who wants. To take Britain back to some of its darkest days. Who looks it Eighteen, seventy this a model, rather ass. A warning is a man who attracts cranks and marxists and those who are attracted By radical Sheikh is a man who can't bring him after condemn terrorists
Man is fundamentally looks at the world and thinks that anyone throwing stones at a pass has a case, and I do think the British were ready to make him. Prime Minister, I don't think they wanted him in charge. Now many of those people traditionally vote labour, not all of them, and that has been changing. Many of those people come from families would not have been seen dead. Voting conservative and carbon representative problem for his party, because he repelled those people. Personally, he was on the wrong side of an issue. They care a great deal about there being breaks it, but also he seemed to them Paulie,
shows to be alive to be a fantasy list. There is a deep prince between laying out a centre left agenda between critiquing NEO liberalism between suggesting that the Tories are to friendly toward capital law, the city of then or industry, and promised things that everybody knows are not going to be delivered Jericho and promised that everyone in Britain will get free broadband. I may seem minor, but it seems to have been. The example of his pious sky mentality that simple turned off people who are otherwise friendly toward government intervention spending, nationalization and so on. So Johnson
was savvy along with Dominate Cummings his advisers in seeing now is the time to run against the wall run against their will run against the war, lose overnight. When over trying to implement breaks it and then to hold an election and to make getting past that impasse theme he was lucky in that the man he was arguing with he's in the mould of those George Orwell criticizes in the road to Wigan pair somebody who just comes across as on electable.
So what you make the arguments made me conventional wisdom that Johnson, yes, you wanted this fantastic victory, but he he's killing off that tourism cause it's this new, a populist high spending brand. SARA Ray Politics, who I think time will tell. I dont think, irrespective of whether that is happening the Johnson had a choice in this election. I think that We recognise that the breaks it question was assuming everything else and that this basis that be parliament found itself in was likely to continue without a decisive victory one way or the other, and then.
He was unlikely given the nature of the electorate and given where the pro breaks it and anti breaks it. Votes lie to similar, asleep, run a campaign arguing for breaks it and for that right, economics and win. So what he had to do in effect say you trust me, Boris Johnson, on breaks it because I was for breaks it from the beginning. I was the face of breaks it. I know, you. Don't trust me or my party on economics, so trust me on breaks it and I will be a centrist on every other question. I will fund the Health Service I will bring an end to so called austerity. I won't promised. Sweeping reforms, privatisation, tax cuts. I don't think he had any other choice but to run in that way, given what he needed to get done because breaks, it has subordinated everything else to it,
the fact that he one does mean he now has a challenge: how You run a country on the backs of votes from people who Put you that primarily because you were in favour of getting breaks, it done. When breaks it is no longer a live issue. What happens then? I don't know the answer to that: not convinced that Boris Johnson, does either. It may well be the case that at that point, he has to run a centrist known thatcherite. Non reforming caretaker government Enron. I see well in five years or it may be the case. He says I thought that's along a lot. A caretaker may be the case, though, that he says
here's, what we're gonna try and then you can judge mean areas at the post. I dont know, but that's that's going to be a big challenge in a couple of years and breaks it's done. This is me Michael this it. This is the direction Britain is indirectly analogous to the United States, but working class voters are just a bigger part: the republican coalition from passive they do with it. But trend predated him and you could have find ways to connect with them and it is not going a pure libertarian agenda or a kind of stuff. Typical Mitt Romney Republicanism, you need a broad market orientation, a need we thoughtful about it. That sort of my dark thought, though, about the UK election was. This shows that the bad bad news here, the shows their Publican party, will have become a big spending party, the Good NEWS,
Paul companies, already big spending that yeah. It's a you know. I often think of the post, twenty twelve election analysis that was off after written Mitt Romney loss, and you got the political consultants view of the Republican Party. That Oh the problem of the republican parties on the social conservatism, all this stuff immigration, SAM. You know topics that relate to the national question too. And culture? That's all gotta go and we have to become his party. That's an upwardly mobiles! this party, basically, we have become, Ninety nine, these Party Bill Clinton nor Tony Blair and it's been delightful. For me to watch this conventional wisdom at the time evaporate in small and its unsettling to me to watch
my own in hate view of what the direction of politics should be. First, successful conservative political action come into view. It's kind of unsettling in, and this version of conservatism will not be forever right. It will have its having today, at least in the UK. Now, arguably, it's kind of having a day in the United States an uncertain one and it will attract you. No power seeking fraudsters and opportunists and discredit itself eventually for some new paradigm. But in the meantime, you. To do good, and you know I I'm excited, though, about this reflection. I thought break
It was the most important political issue in the west. In a long time, because it is fundamentally put this idea of the direction of history, the elite view of politics as an inevitable choice to words, the dissolution of national governing institutions, in favour of international rules in front of us and.
You saw vindication of national sovereignty and democracy with it, and so not only as Britain getting showing itself by rejecting German couldn't cordon a decent country. But in one month it's going to be an independent, sovereign and democratic one and have something to celebrate. Exploiting you, Charlie Cook. Will the Boris breaks it from abreks at perspective? Will it be better worse? The same thing What is on offer from Teresa man? I think it will be better because he won't be negotiating with himself January be probably a little better on substance, but perceived to be worlds apart. Just because of the personality of Boris and the perception accurate or not, but he was always behind this, even though my understanding is that he was not
so resolute as he appears to be now Emily, it's a little worse it further and peaches the Union with Northern Ireland out from my perspective, that might be good and long term but- and I worry I'm missing a trick. I mean was remarkable that Mccrone in Morocco caved to Boris a little bit and Lee of before the election and Boris got this ungovernable deal just before in it It looks a little bit like the Europeans helped him, and I'm wondering if
some way by helping him get his majority there, some mechanism that prevents him from being a tough negotiator in the next phase. So I fear, I fear, missing something this. This was a very sudden swift turn of events from total chaos to clarity and the Europeans helped him. Why am I dont know the answer? Yet I figure has to be at least a little bit better, so that what had a few other things before we go, Charlie, even washing Silicon Valley, the loss, besides Silicon Valley and less, I watched all of them have slightly late to the last episode to have been busy last Sunday
things. It was interesting because the service hilariously funny- and I am told by people who work in Silicon Valley so accurate and on the nose to be hard to watch this last episode. Was moving, I won't give anything away, but it was, it was poignant, was realistic. It was sad, it was funny, but but it was different than the rest of the show tone and execution. If you haven't seen the show, I would recommend it highly if you have make sure you the last season of last episode, Gypsy visited the ice maize. Yes the Sudan town Wash and easy just last weekend ah Here we live in what I call authenticity woods in Fairfax County, I'm an outside the belt wake journalist outside it
We welcome the city by a mile or two right. My old neighborhood was yuppie acres. It was the kind of home were in two thousand seven. You bought the house in the above, a yard. Sign became preinstalled The first amendment devoted Alexandria. You know, what's the point, place. I asked for the republican ballot in Virginia. We don't have a register by party ass for them, in primary ballot. The guy behind this tables looks to me like why That's the old Aber hoods. Now, I'm in a slightly more rightward one, and when I go to the city as much as we ought to know you live, you see, you have some remarkable. You're, free museums, all kinds of eventual they're doing an ice. Maize is your story, but where you get a park vote- that's the million dollar question So if you go on Sundays partners, free and fair the early enough. It's actually not that hard to find a parking space. They be
an ice maize. It wasn't huge browed, say the size of a small house and was the old ice blocks, and there were three hundred some of them in their about you up about public. Eight feet: high dad you walked in. It was a long line. We stood a line for problematic part of an hour, but was free add you walk around in your seeing your walk ground in ice and, of course my sons are having a great time and therefore telling everyone click the ice? And you know you can see all kinds of remarkable patterns in it and was will warm so starting milk is starting to melt. We sent a fun time one of those things Reno you're, lucky you live in a place, where some business they hate, let's build an ice maize and in order to bring in people downtown for Christmas shopping and stuff like that, and did so was terrific. Its if you want to enjoy it closed up. Last weekend. Sorry telling you now butter should be around the DC area next day for the ten next year that market calendars four December twenty twenty now so Amadeus is the time of the year for Christmas cards. Here
Christmas cards is something that you know. You kind of react limit yourself to do as you become an adult and have a family, and if pictures of two kids to send around and it seems like this weird burden. But there are all these companies that have made it much easier to upload to pictures of your kids and send our cards to all the people in your address book, and it's a delight to get all these pictures of my friends and colleagues in their children, and sometimes nice notes, and every year there's a surprise like a note of thanks or something I wasn't expecting. In fact, I got one just before I walked into the room, former colleague our Marlowe Sofie. That was really touching about her time here in national review and dumb like one of the highlights of the season. For me right, I want to salute the uncouple Sarah cities at Bay.
A couple times a week here at the office you come in the morning and there's some wonderful treat there in the kitchen laid out perfectly with everything you you need. And it's terrific, although I did have one bad experience which is on me as running and pride, one is podcast desperate for some food and housing fantastic Newbury methods. I love blueberry method sourcing. I think you're gonna eat that I I love with break methods. Is its Poleos sate, polio, paleo like paleo, France paleo cause. I don't have no european. Is I've, seen paleo magazines checking out hope those extra fire just I'm sure it's a blueberry muffin right here. And she was right this will. This was the Ottawa Pelion means, but it means that it is not associated with with good blurred, blueberry methods without and accept and this week in my favor to breakfast does the salmon are off an answer
made salmon rose with a glaze accompanying and it was. It was wonderful. Thank you, Sarah, on behalf of me and all our colleagues, and with that it's time for editors, picks and belief which your pic My pig is Kyle Psmith reviewing the movie cats catches, the weirdest things I think happened. The Broadway musical, by enjoyed Weber, base, on a series of perfectly fine juvenile type poems by the great Ts Elliot, but in the hands of enjoyed weapon and Broadway became just one of them. The craziest production is in so divorced from the original text, and now it's a movie with Taylor, Swift and Kyle gives it the treatment it deserves. Yeah I've just been at in pay any attention to this
the play and I've seen the previous on tv unavoidably freaks me out. It's just it so we're its deeply unsettling so jolly. What's your back my pick David, how assign you he's called the voter, perch math, I'm sure you ve seen a claim. Over the last couple of days, that Wisconsin is trying to steal the election by air purging voters and see policy made. This claim David Hassan II runs through why it is not true. Nonsense in fact, can get you're back we're in a lot of good pieces on the british elections and breaks it, but I think my favorite was John or Sullivan's referenda. Actions of the UK elections and it begins or Yoda, but somebody who you know the perspective you'd want,
Da Silva has hated the idea of Great Britain and, in the UK, joining the European Union back before was called. The European Union was just that the European Economic Cooperative and pushed for it. With it on the factory years, and anti entire rearing is very active in the referendum. This is a guy who's been into it. Probably more than anybody certainly on embryos at national. Real must want account Daniel Hannan right, we'll he's into it, and here it is the big election. This can be make or break for breakfast, John or solvent gets waylaid by a flu or a cold or something that is apparently one step short of the pool of virus he's miserable and pass it get it out of consciousness and election night, you got it, but he does talk to people and give its full sense of what it was, what it means written with that trademark wit and insight and sell just I was Greenpeace, Sir. My pack and I had a lot of troika picks recently done guard man, Sheep Menchu and golf courts at that. This is a cover story
the new issue and distressed me folks. There is no better way to mark a Christmas than to enjoy an incredibly harsh Charlie, could take down of sea, and- and this is believe me, the peace you had been waiting to read on CNN say, should check it out, so that's it for us, human listening to a national. You podcast, Sir Henry Broadcast, retransmission countess that express written permission of national. You magazine is strictly prohibited. This podcast has been produced by the aforementioned incomparable, Sir who makes a sound better than we deserve. Please check out our special best of Christmas podcast come next week. Thank Charlie. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Michael thanks to ten, books and Catherine Jean Lopez, her wonderful new book, a you at the mystics. Thanks specially to all of you,
listening. We are the editors and we'll see you next.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-28.