On this week’s third (third!!) episode of The Editors, Rich, Charlie, and Jim discuss the ever-evolving response to the coronavirus pandemic and the societal and economic havoc it threatens to visit upon the U.S.
• Rich: Therese Shaheen “The Chinese Wild-Animal Industry and Wet Markets Must Go.”
• Charlie: John Yoo, “Pandemic Federalism.”
• Jim: MBD’s “Fear and Extravagance in a Plague.”
• Rich: Quick lunches.
• Charlie: Kids hiding under towels.
• Jim: Nathan Hale’s historical graphic novels.
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
California shut down, New York shut down Congress firing money from a bizarre
out into the country, will discuss all this and more on this week's edition of the
there is some rich is always by the right, audible, trial, cedar
you cook and the siege of authenticity, woods, Jim Geraghty, Michael burn, your
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anything so Jim Geraghty, we live in one of those times when crazy ideas, twelve hours later, are accepted as the norm and leap frog by even crazier.
Ideas, and it would have seen once the plaza first talked about a shut down order. Shelter in place
order in New York City, it it seemed kind of crazy, then Gavin knew some one had did it in a whole state, California last night recording
here Friday afternoon and now Andrew Cuomo has followed suit and New York. What do you make of it? You know this is
where I wanted this week to end, but because it was
Kind of it was almost reassuring to think that we were in for some tough times, but that some
he who had always been Canada, less than fully serious nanny state type like build, the plaza would overreact and ennobled.
Last year was the guy who was shot
It was time to nationalized the industry's before he was ready to shut down schools in New York City.
And so when build a blog, you start saying: yeah I've ever been up to do this that it was with. We wanted to believe. Ok, that's
will the bill the Plaza being in a ninny Overreact
In going too far- and in fact it was kind of interesting that further for the initial when he first mentioned it, do you know the next day Cuomo in a press conference made it.
I, like you, really didn't think that would be necessary and that,
just discussing it was creating more panic and fear
It was necessary to apparently it was.
This looks like a good idea to enter Cuomo now and for those
was who don't live in New York or in California. The fear is that
state you, it's gonna out with followed a leader that,
at some point, it may not seem necessary here in Virginia we still have,
few restaurants their open. I guess, if you're, having less than ten people in them at one time, but does
no at some point do they follow with this and say basically every business that is not involved in trying to,
save lives with the corona virus you gotta get.
Shut down right now and again,
tell you all of US
to save lives- all of us want to do the right thing. All of us are willing to make sacrifices for everyone else, but dear leaders,
We can't do this for that long. This. This is it oh. This is like her.
I think it over the common comparison going around these days is holding your breath. You can only slam down the door on the. U S account
let me for so long. People eventually need to go back to work. School kids need to get eventually back to get educated.
People you probably hearing a little bit of domestic lack of tranquillity at my house,
Everyone wants to do the right thing, but you could only keep everybody lock in their. How angry I hate this phrase were hearing shelter in place
do shelter in place. If there's a tornado, you do shelter in place. If there's an active shooter, you dont do shelter in place for weeks at a time
and so the idea of were all of these announcements coming down the pike with no real sense of look we're gonna happen
this for a week going gonna have to do this for two weeks, but after that things can go back to normal. That's
it seems really ominous and unjust couple hours ago, doktor fancy was how she was speaking at the
the White House his tone
demeanor was very serious. I dont know
if we are bending the curve. The way we want to and everything started, look really ominous right now dealing a nagging
I had no wrote a bit about this in the morning jolt today. Look it if this is,
as one of the UK researchers suggested. I guess in a report that really freaked out the White House. If this is the,
I d spanish flu and I hope all the Spaniards will
give me for using the reference to Spain. If, if
is really on that par with the sort of thing we're
Looking at you know millions debt around the world a separate. This is a once in a century healthcare crisis. Ok, then less hunkered
let us get ready for it. Lets understand about this is level with us, because if this isn't something like that,
on that scale people
start really. I think we only have a few more weeks of people honouring this shell
in place and stay at home, and all these other does not social distancing instructions. I think
our concern? You know patient for about two weeks three weeks and then at some point, people using a start talking to their neighbours against having friends over.
Yes, try. The Wall Street Journal had an editorial this morning, saying just in economic terms. This is completely
sustainable they say we can only do it for about another week. I don't. I don't think I buy that, but certainly after April will we gotta keep doing this
and you see see another contraction in the accounts,
me that experts now I saw some protection, this morning's someone rapid will out there saying it could be minus twenty point: minus twenty,
quarter. Gdp growth said just how long can you do that and the just it involves? Is this really delicate?
balance between. You know what the virus is spread and you don't want unnecessary deaths in you. Want your hospital system overwhelmed such that people who need care just aren't going to get it. You know and are going to die at home, or
I sitting in a hospital hallway but
this. What we're doing now is spreading human misery of another form. You know
people are unemployed, they commit suicide Dade, they start drinking it, sir enough for one or two months. Maybe, but how can we sustain this beyond that were come? I suggested last week earlier this week, but this was again
this is a ploy and it's got considerably worth following last week such a few days ago and has been the story of this.
This is just got worse and worse and worse,
and because it is by increments we're ending up at an almost unthinkable position. The point at which I think everyone said
Wow, this is serious in America was trumps first presidential address
when he said I'm preventing travel to and from Europe. At that point we will said this is this is changed
not least because during the address the NBA announced that it was postponing the season, and it seems
every two or three hours since then. We ve ratcheted it up yet another notch,
and now air shelter in place, orders state wide. If you go back a month, not only did they occur
Let me look pretty good, not only with the standard wisdom that President Trump would be
difficult opponent come November because he would be able to say, look at the stock market. Look at the economy, look at employment and so on, but Paul after Paul after policies that Americans were more confident about their personal finances, about their employment situation and about the economic outlook in general, then they had been since nine
sixty nine and one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine for context was the year of the first moon landing was a year off to Martin Luther king was killed. It was the year before the Beatles broke up.
Where we are with discussing the constitutionality of order
Fifty million people in two parts is governed,
He soon just it sets move quickly, but is also
In increments such that it's important
remember the the distance travelled here. I am of gems view.
And I assume you ve rich, that this is unsustainable in the long run. That's not just because the Americans
to borrow a word from Kevin Willis, an unruly less likely than most other people to acquiesce to this over months. I think you plausibly could tell people in Singapore to stay inside for three months because they be scared of being exit.
If they disobeyed anew plausibly, could tell japanese citizens to stay inside for three months, because the cultures less individualistic, it's not going to fly here.
And is certainly not going to fly if it is accompanied by the sort of economic damage that we see in, which is unthinkable now. The good news is, I too saw that prediction of minus twenty number for the second quarter. It was accompanied by some fairly bullish predictions on the rebound,
But that assumes that will be a rebound, which assumes that this will come to an end when
hearing talk. Did I August's and there comes a point at which the knock on effects of this will last year. This is not merely a case of people missing to three weeks at work is not merely a case of a recession costing some jobs terrible there. That always is. We are looking at a situation in which the federal government,
we'll just not be able to send out enough money to offset the damage and the end of this lasts until August.
There would be no way of doing that, even if we pulled all of our resources and sent them too to the Navy, because once people miss the car payment,
or the mortgage payment. It makes it more difficult for them to get back.
To where they were before so I'm,
I am increasingly alarmed at the speed here. I'm also alarmed at the.
Seeming lack of knowledge about what were likely to be dealing with.
When it will be over? I forget his name, but I was told
morning that famous hedge fund manager had suggested that one way to do this would be to say right. We will just shut everything for a month. Literally, everything
so thirty one days from now. Things will reopen and an his point, which is a good one, was that would provide a sufficient level of knowledge and predictability to employers. Employees to the government, to banks to states to schools asked to diminish the the die.
Of course it's it's a good idea in a vacuum, if you could go ass, a business owner to a bank and say right, we are going to be shot for a month. That means there will be no income. Terror overheads here are Constance here, our variables
what can you do for me in terms of alone? Fine, we can all ensure why that makes sense, but you can't do that America for stock does not one person who can impose that so
rule, and also we don't know how long this gonna last. This is no way of predicting it, and I think this is the scariest part of all surgeon spring is scary. It if you look at the odometer gratifiers page, which are the most was, are these days.
You must of it, and we could be an early early days here. Must it would be alarming right in Germany, fifty nine totalled each as it is a tragedy, but
you don't know enough to shut down the world economy over it's really ITALY
is a harrowing: is they shut down whole country and at least so far,
and the Prime Minister was saying last week. You know this could take two weeks to see the effect of this, but deaths have daily deaths, have increased, have been increasing. There hasn't been as far as
tell any really diminishment in new cases. So
today they passed China
told us if you believe, the China numbers, which is quite a benchmark
and now they're. Already almost a thousand deaths over China and
They can see they could catch up and tore cases with China at at this pace and that's having shut down the whole country so well. What would it look like if they had instituted any social controls
but there is one other weird thing going on about ITALY and that obviously northern part of this country just getting
have stated, but one of the things that that's freaking out is that world making these sacrifices, the actual we're gonna bend. The current forget about the curving
really scary right now, but I'll be a little bit better to Morrow and live a better the day after that, little bit better the day after that and
the numbers are just today was to six hundred and twenty seven more deaths biggest data day increase
I also believe in works more than six thousand new cases to met. That's just you
the hard time get your head around it and see. You know it relax we're off. Suddenly comparisons night
eighteen, don't seem like a you know, frothing at the mouth, crazy over reaction, but
said a lot of this is in the northern part of the country in the southern parts are actually not that bad or release, maybe maybe nor nearest bad compared to those other ones,
as I water. Let's take us, I was gonna go through the country by country.
The question is: is Spain? You know x, number of days behind that is France X number of days behind that when you look at those kind
Is it really really? You know all the worst case scenario suddenly seemed not so utterly implausible. The weird thing is you look at
It was a bright for for what it's worth. I think it's very likely to China,
not giving honest numbers right now. I dont believe they're having one case in a couple of days and
zero cases- and there are celebrating the World health warnings
Nation is saying good job, China on its twitter feed and things like that. But interesting. As you know, we ve heard all very few cases in Russia very few cases in India novices. They may not be true
thing that much Pakistan B,
not all these countries that
order. China and ok- maybe you got more people flying
from China in ITALY, ah,
War carriers, for you know for the Disney effort for the virus or something like that, but you'd
A figure you'd see them in place. The Moscow get alot of international air traffic. Why wouldn't you know there be bigger outbreaks, their new email unless these
are actually flourishing in these countries and its either being completely under wraps by an authoritarian government
or does just you know, what's happening
laces words too far from the watchful
of the world for anybody to notice it feels like certain countries are not getting
nearly as bad by that's enough, coupled with the right now, I can almost hear listeners. Jumping up thing will gymnast, because a climate, ok,
generally, viruses spread less in warm weather and inhuman. Whether than they do in,
colder and drier months. I would also note, of course, if you have, this is Chuck viruses in general, not just the corona virus.
Look, I wondered how much of that stems from when its winter
both states inside, so they spend more time together. So you know you're more likely to spread from person to person when you're
site a place where the weather's nice people outside, while then you're less, spend less time, cooped up with other people who have become
worrying and shutting viruses stuff like that
on that list, Mongolia and Russia are
There are neither one or optically from whether right now so yeah, maybe just a whole bunch of case up what we're trying to get our heads around here.
The number of cases, but that are out there are people who are- and we just
but those are ITALY? Is
freaking us out and does say that you know. Maybe we can do all this.
We have to make the most YO draconian steps possible if we want to know hold off a public health apocalypse, but the fact they ve taken such grand steps and they don't seem to have made that hit that bit the curve
point yet is really really ominous and all by the way people get the feeling that at this isn't make difference. They're gonna do it
ok. The spring breakers were right. We must look at
enjoy yourselves, there's no reason and shutting ourselves off from the world. We're going
a third and live our lives, because.
While we're all trapped, cooped up like this are low.
On hold we're doing this preserve lives
How much you will have a life
We saving what kind of what love working lives. Are we living when we're trying to save these lives, so
Charlie, my my latest take on this is why I favour whatever
micro, extreme measure possible. Now, so we are discussing
MRS, but were discussing on Monday with with Michael. You know: what will the calls notary out it to build hospitals? Smart is gonna, do it I mean with Trump said,
yesterday that the reason why haven't you,
the but use the powers from the national.
Jackie was to wait for things to get bad things get bad, but if you shut down your whole country, how much much worse
get things right, so anything you can do this radical that short
that would seem to be welcome and
dealey. I don't think this would happen because the South Korea is a smaller, more controlled
country and then also a huge part percentage of its cases emanate
from one sources, this church that that was the outset, a huge part of the outbreak? But if I could trade having patients tractor
phones and the people around them being able to see where they are and a total.
Lockdown of California in New York. I'd I'd take their trade in a minute here, like this
the idea of everybody walking around whirring masks, but still going about their daily business looks really appealing right now, I said dab point out that it is a good sign or should be a good sign for those people who are absolutely convinced that President Trump is the sort of unreconstructed fascist who is about
to cancel the election that he has been told of a law that
the Scots tentatively gives him enormous power he hasn't,
tool emergency, in which the citizenry is probably
more worried than he is he's declining to use, and I think that speaks well.
Of american culture and the the latent precious that obtain on every politician that he has been reluctant to use it, irrespective of the scale of this issue, but does that but has apply to undo submerged como that are just there is doing
stuff, I'm gone all the way. I mean what what is what would be comparable? What
I have to go to world wars, stat, comparable schemes like rationing and obsolete draft. It is hard to get a more extreme.
Hell no social control. That otherwise is hard to think of Charlie of examples, but that's the example. Isn't it. I think that the where, where approach
seeing the sort of environment one would expect in a war, and it really is jarring. As I said in a month ago, this was unthinkable. I I think that the
The actions that have been taken in California and New York worry me a little bit less as a civil libertarian then had they been taken nationally for a couple of reasons. Firstly,
We do invest the vast majority of political power in America, the state level the states have far more latitude than does the federal government, and in addition to that, if this doesn't work for whatever reason it will,
come apparent in California in New York and
Alabama and I were in minnesota- won't try it that there is. I don't like the did. Lazy casting of federalism that you, Herr based on the Brandeis, quote
SSA a means, a means by which to achieve laboratories of experimentation. That's not why we have Federalist. We have federalism, because we're different states have different characters, because the people in them have different political expectations.
Because we have a genuine geographic and ideological and religious
firstly in the United States, as we did at the founding- and we want to,
if under one carapaces spot, but not all in it,
in a similar way, but in this case I am in favour of it.
Using the powers that they have creatively to see what works and what does it and if we see a dramatic reduction in cases
in California or New York ass. A result of these actions, then
then maybe other other states will pick them up is also,
same it. The traditional use
and reason for federalism may apply here. Jim was was in his previous answer,
Addressing the question of why the numbers look so different in different places and, of course, ass, a statistical question. This is very difficult to answer.
Because there are so many variables the whether it is one of them. Culture is another lying
is- is another one that the american hospitals
the american States and the american federal government are not lying about this. China is. It is impossible to know whether what China is reporting is true. We have different numbers of elderly people in different places. Italy has a lot of
older people- that's true in America to between the states, Arizona in Florida have a lot of older people.
And then there's the ever present question of the denominator, which is one of the most difficult challenges we face. The fatality rate of this disease,
looks wildly variable depending on which arena
you examined, but it may not be or maybe, but it may not be because of course you have to compare those who have died to those you haven't diet and to know who hasn't diet of corona virus. You have to be testing people who haven't died of it and we have a shortage of
ass in the United States and in general, and so we don't really know how many people have had it. We don't really.
Now, how many people currently have it? And so we doubt
how many people as a percentage of those who have experienced it, have died. So I,
The other reason that it is encouraging to see different states trying different things, providing it's not the result of a mass panic. It is that they will be able to address the specific circumstances in their state that may
be different elsewhere, guys gonna jump governing arises when let your first of all, as we are recording this apparently
DC mayor Muriel Bouser. Is it going to announce a three week, shelter in place at a press conference today, and I think
other things that is made everything we ve seen from these, you no talk of Kerr Fuse and other government restrictions on where you can go
and what you can do funds
in all so far is that their largely voluntary and the enforced
is pretty minimal
even the mayor of Hoboken, who was going to say a sense of you know who it was because they weigh up were definitely have a curfew was saying
How can a harassed people were walking their dogs? We're not gonna grassy, if you're out for a walk, the point of the curfew is to get people who are taken seriously to take it seriously. The cops are not an arrest. You know by the way, doesn't make much sense to rather people up and throw them into jail,
Let me trying to keep a part in groups of less than ten and by the way people are trying to take people out of jail because of the health risk, a spread of disease with their inside there.
You know, if you have the cops around telling people how you really should get inside you really get home. This is not a good idea.
For you to be out or to break up groups on the beaches, make fine all that's gonna, stop before either
with this turns into. If you're, not in your home, you're gonna get arrested the
and you're gonna see all kinds of people even places like San Francisco in Washington DC in New York City, say the hell you are there
now we signed on four who not gonna happen. Jim is because that is simply not
the resources in the United States, not just that it would be regarded with scepticism.
This is a long running problem in american life. If people support a law at the outset, they tend not to when they see it being enforced, but there's just not the man.
To keep people in their homes is three hundred and twenty million people in America. Nobody comes.
Because they wanted? You know, arrest some middle aged mom? What nor, under a neighborhood
so check. Cook question to you
The social distances
The lock down to shut down that we are experiencing now will come to be
seen over time as a nest.
Sorry, health measure or a hideous overreaction. While I hope that their seen as a hideous overreaction, because if they are, that means that we looked back and things ended. Ok, as I suggested last time, I have a fair for the politicians who are taking these decisions. I assume in good faith that irrespective they will be seen as a hideous every action, because unless we're dead-
in for a pandemic of Hollywood proportions if they work they're going to look as if they were unnecessary
this really is a way of winning. If you are in charge of a state or the federal government compared it, I would concur with that, which is that
I hope the only way in which it seen as a scenario which is now
Seen as an overreaction is, if this goes forward, surgeon
sanctions. Do not do now enact rules like this and limitations and restrictions like this and then those points
is there are doing them, have a terrible death count. So just
of sheer desire?
do not see that scenario come to pass by the way.
Apparently a spokesman for Muriel Bouser, saying no they're, not talking about a three week, shelter and play so
I won't forget what I said two minutes ago: that's when you keep an eye on twitter either way. This is this, is the only body has to keep her body as the news
Why should keep listening to the written? What other days work? This is one of the worst parts of this I've. I found the people share these rumours
now they are no. No! No! No, I don't know, I mean sure some DC listener. This part gas just turned the pot cast off and ran shelter. There live out
the door. This isn't a criticism of jam, quite the opposite. What I was going to say is that there is no way that, on an average day, Jim would even here the sort of rumours that you see in the corners of the internet. Like the government's coming to confiscate your guns, the government's gonna put you in a FEMA camp, the jade. How military exercises the beginning of a coup? We wouldn't
parry knows, but with this it they're just reported, I mean that this is. This is reported on the news every day and am because of where we are now it none of them sound, implausible, Ceaseth, uneasy about the impact of the government's plenty on gluing.
Soul into our beds? Father says: ok, I guess
where we are now, but it just make sure that
I M going with Daniel Medina of the intercepting the guardian, formerly Annesley, uniting us we're gonna, stop there
I'm gonna, say for an hour and necessary health magic is unfortunately assume it's it's. The virus is gonna, get worse
so Jim. What do you make of it
and go on Capital Hill. You had the eight hundred fifty billion dollar stimulus bill passed out of the house, the Senate Republican said no, but let us the voting
from here can be one point, two trillion that the bills will have to be
reconciled and that I think are expected pass early next week, but Sir
that there's no case that I can see against what they're doing in the broadest gauge, because the government has caused this.
Economic distress to theirs zero case for the government and not trying to least do what it can at the margins to leave it,
yeah. I shall begin with the preface at every good fiscal conservative should make, which was that boy
would be a heck of a lot easier to have
stimulus rescue below
but how we want to characterize this legislation-
it is easier to have that truly spend a trillion dollars if we weren't already spending update accumulating a trillion dollars and debt every year. This is why
should be spending money like it's crazy, what's good times, because in the bad times got along and all of a sudden you need to spend
lot more money and you're going to borrow a heck of a lot that having been said, I think, for the foreseeable future we're just going to pretend that the depths of the dead don't exist because we got to get through.
We gotta get through this crisis and make sure there are enough of us around to keep paying that debt a year or two from now on. The point that I can is jumping out at me is
the aim was John Delaney, the map presidential candidate, whoever they forgot about the little ball guy in the democratic
social primary who wrote yesterday forty percent of the? U S, economy is shut down
When you say you know we're talking about a twenty percent drop in GDP or something like that, I look. Maybe that's exaggerated.
But we're looking at a United States where, apparently your fifty
million people work in the restaurant industry right and they ve all been switched either take out her delivery and any restaurant robot tell you you're not make
up your margins and take up delivery during a situation like this
all hotels are effectively emptied out. Obviously
dairy sporting event. Every concert
Regarding every convention centre, every large gathering in the entire country is is shut down.
Airlines are its existing appearing people talking about a phobia, shutting out the airlines, their shutting them
helstone is that that also
be moved at this point. Anything think you'll leave, leave the airport
for only essential travel who still got not essential,
travel go on a time like this. You go down the list of industry after industry,
they have just basically slammed the brakes right and you go free
whatever early. This isn't eunuch recession where things
wow down, you dont know somebody cancels in order. There's this gradual thing. This decision
we just slammed the brakes as quickly as we could on a huge chunk of our economy. So
I am very much in the thinking with your what Michael had written
earlier this week and Robert were broken and a bunch of other guys hate whatever you gonna do. Do it fast because
today. There is a restaurant that San you know. We usually have
x amount in sales from people sitting in in our rests in our dining room.
And we had why amount in deliveries and that's not nowhere near enough lay offs.
No high orbic one from a five thousand to about a hundred. Fifty thousand in a week collecting up Africa applying for unemployment insurance
this is right,
rock this year. Whatever metaphor that seems big enough for the economy, what we're going through right now! That's it! So you know, if you are,
Do the helicopter plan of dropping money if it didn't break the social distancing rules? Just
throwing money out anywhere, you can and spread it out. I my attitude: is you go as big as you can, and I think the point that he was by Michael Britain Dorias
earlier, yes, you're gonna end some people, as if you do this any throw money around as much as you possibly can, and you dont Means test.
And you dont worry about whether some of the goes to millionaires or some goes to people who have enough of a financial cushion to get through this fine k wont work.
Worry about that later. We can always raise taxes on them later right. We can you allow these people you
check, they don't need they're gonna donated to charity. They're gonna! Do it the other gotta figure out some way to do something? Good with that. We cannot
worrying about this
When every day businesses are gonna, where our guard are going out of business.
Because they are not allowed to have customers,
I see the argument about a cruise ships and ends my thought as I go when the government says, you cannot go on this business and the business is not. You know, damn thing unsafe or something like that. Well, then, he, I think, you're entitled to a little bit a compensation, so ill
The scale of this is enormous. Speed really matters right now. I'm ok
if some of the money ends up in the hands of people who don't really need it. You know I dont want to hold
up another week another two weeks, so we can get this thing perfect because
this year. We lies with the virus at this point that speed really counts so Chica
Last week, when Mitt Romney said I will go to send a thousand object, every American that seem crazy. Now it's
it's kind of a core that the republican proposal. Are you? Ok, that's why I think that Mitt Romney s plan is not the core of the republican proposal. The republican proposal is far far more complicated and and has an enormous number of problems. As a result, I understand that Republicans want to save money.
They know that there are consequences to over spending. I also understand that Republicans are aware that there is an election coming up and if they just right checks to everyone is Writ Mitt Romney suggested we well
certainly see ads on tv saying. The republican bailout under President Trump Centre check to Jeff Bizarre Sis I for, but I just I dig it really matters right now. Am I wish a week ago if this is what they're going to do? They just done it? The bell, the Republicans announced last night, I think, is a is a mass. Firstly, it is based on the two thousand eighteen tax return,
Which causes all sorts of problems and have you made a hundred thousand dollars in January, two thousand eighteen and then nothing for the rest of the air. Nothing lasts
you don't get the money they phases out. Secondly,
that is a lower smaller check for people who don't pay taxes a tool. I think it's six hundred dollars as opposed to one thousand two hundred dollars per person that doesn't make any sense in this context. West tomorrow, has it again. I understand designing welfare programs to avoid tomorrow. Has its, I understand, designing welfare programs to try to make sure that people work, but in this case we want people
to work. So what is the purpose insane? You can't go to work. You are the most vulnerable and therefore we will send you half ass much ass. We send to people who pay taxes and and thereby in general, have have more money,
and I think that as an argument that this shouldn't be phased out at all, not because every person in the country needs money right now, but because
We have a large continental nation
and it means something different
T nine thousand dollars, which is a cut off point in their public and plan for any money at all. One hundred. Ninety eight thousand for a married couple, joy fighting jointly that
I mean something different in New York City than it does in Mississippi and is to see-
To me, just to wildly complicate this too, to start means testing at the bottom and at the top
to mention that it's not necessarily a bad thing for an economy in this state. If people who,
have more money and not at risk necessarily of losing their home other car or even their job.
Are able to enjoy more disposable income. If the idea is to is to create spending or create charity than those people need need cash to
I am a little bit confused as to why the Mitt Romney suggestion, if it's been accepted in principle, is now being quibble with to death. As Jim said, it seems eminently possible to achieve something like this and then to quibble on the back and
for example, why don't send everyone a check for the same amount and then say it's taxable
way, people who a lot of money and of giving a lot of it back? People who don't pay taxes at all, except for payroll taxes, end up giving none of it back and therefore, if you ve got
provision, that's not the only way of doing it, but it's a way of dealing with it next year, when this is hopefully gone away. So I haven't been impressed with Republicans on this at all at much. Rather, that met Romney's planet gone into effect. You asked me the beginning: am I o k with it?
I am really because this is in my view, a government is for this
is an exception, is shock to the system. This is equivalent to a tidal wave or gods. Zella attack.
This is not linked in any way to the normal debate.
It's that we have around our economy and around individual behaviour, the almost everyone
in this situation. It who is suffering did not do anything wrong, they're, not suffering because they ve made mistakes are not suffering because of prioritization and choices that they have made, and if the government is that
step in in a counter cyclical way than this seems to me the textbook case for doing so. Libertarians classical levels are not against all government, not anarchists. They believed that we have a government because,
sometimes horrendous things happen, and you need some sort of central authority. The number of circumstances that qualify are low compared to say a progressive or a socialist, but this is one of them. It would be the same if we had been invaded.
They will be the same if there were a massive domestic insurrection, so
this case yeah, I agree and, as Jim said, every good fiscal conserve
It has to point it out, but you're supposed to save for exactly these moments. We haven't, we ve spent and spent and spent
and we have also managed to keep stimulating the economy to the point at which we don't have many tools left with which to stimulate the economy. That notwithstanding yes in this case that do some eight. Let's do it quickly and it's not
over complicated in ways that would usually be acceptable. But I think here
you're getting in the way of actually helping people who need it so Jim Jim, very quickly. What's what's your view between them, the pure Romney proposal and the complicated one that the centre pumpkins currently have faster
bull beats, complicate and slow any day. The weak and the other is gonna jumps out at this. Let's assume you only if we can keep people going through this right if we can make sure they don't get, evicted
we can make. I guess I borrowed evictions. Will it said I you know they have? They keep painting took away the mortgage to pay the rent they dont end up,
in some sort of insurmountable whole right in restaurants.
The weight staff, you know what I do know we're not open wearily doing
take out delivery, but you know we're gonna keep Panier in others. The gets people through this the day they announced
a vaccine or an effective treatment, or something like that? We would you think the economy does right. The stock markets gonna take off legal.
It right, all the sun. Yet all this pent up demand for vacations
and travel and going out to eat and all the way all the differ. We going
the movies, and in all these different ways the people spend money. The moments
to come out again. So to speak the moment we don't have to be in these self quarantines thing to spend money legacy
is a hearing to see a huge rubber band of us as
economy remains, tax revenue will rebound like we can yield. There's better.
Is the better cited as a do. What you gotta do right now to get to that better day
and they will not only will we get to it and we will be in this crisis situation and will be able to address them
issues and maybe get control of spending walls.
Being better economic shaped tax revenue will be up. I will just be able to handle all these brought the questions and fix any the pie
problems here. If look, let's say a lot of money with the people who are really wealthy. You didn't need it and they didn't give to charity. I think they will give a hold your examples the morning newsletter, but fine, but so they are. I want to raise income taxes by one percentage point of the highest incomes by
and do that we accept, say we gotta restock our supplies. We had a monsieur governments, well secured a kissing others, a recurrence of a similar virus. People pay money for that.
They are so it's elder when all they don't take it back, I mean you can just pass a law through Congress. Of course you could pass a law that says four financial year: twenty twenty anyone who got this amount of money and and over a certain amount of it back at its various mechanism,
by which you can do that, but they that and then- and then we worry about it in a year, and- and I tell you something as somebody who is anti tax as a reflexive matter- that they are the chances of that being politically unpopular.
The close to zero. If you, if you say in a year's time, we had a crisis, every single person got checks. We dealt with effectively its now over and the people who got them
who are over half a million dollars a year, whether you do the cut off, have to give it back? I can't whose
election for that.
So Jim Dirty Ex a question to you. The stimulus bill by the time
this will be closed
to a total of,
trillion, then one trillion yes or no.
I to say no, but it could be right around one point five. So today one measure that Turkey will be closer to one trillion, especially if,
Some of the number is in loans that end up getting repaired
I must say closer to. I just think
every day that passes the imperative to make it
rather than smaller, is going to grow and in a compromise between Republicans in them.
That's the natural place to go is just each side to get their their own version of spending. So allow me to say a little bit over one point. Five
five trillion so Jim Gary as scandal that kind of culture or controversy basic came out of nowhere yesterday was the Richard Bur Wanna, recording of a private conversation he had with a North Carolina group where he was privately suggesting that grown up.
It would be much worse than anything he had said and public actually use the comparison of spanish flu, and then
so at dumped as some stock and came out that Kelly, I laughed lower than you Senator
Georgia was appointed not too long ago had done so
thing she says- and she's quite wretch. I guess plainer that this is all third party stuff. She didn't have direct control where, as bird doesn't have that
a rash now, would you make that yeah I mean did feels like two different sets of sir
Francis and in fact I actually think bird everybody
must be focused on the stock stuff? I think it
bird was saying. Don't worry, we're gonna be fine. We are well prepared for this. We are well supplied.
You know, don't worry America go about your business, nothing to see here and then, of course, the in privately. He was telling people
This can be really bad will then? Yes, I think, that's
Three hats are much bigger scandal. Anything going up the stocks. I thank you for the whole theme. It
is Sir Newsletter was. This is a time for honesty, a monster
the leaders, whether its state, local, your federal president or an elected office? I just think back to work
right after nine eleven,
So does anyone Dick Cheney at the Naval observatory, because I don't want to bring Cheney and NBC News which, by the way, is it really the far away
he asked Cheney. Were you prepared to shoot down a passenger airliner if a terrorist was at the controls and Cheney said? Yes, the
Frankly, there wasn't that much more to the answer. It was just your answer. Yes, very China. It was that strange.
And such like in a normal time, you like well TIM you'd hate to ever.
Be that as it away, and you have to weigh the costs that it knows it. Yeah yeah, we'll shoot down a place, your airline full of innocent people, if that's what it takes, protect people on the ground and the ivory coast. Is this bridge
sing splash of cold water to the face of like wholly smokes. Okay, this is not a drill. This is real,
certainly we are regularly addressed us with some of
leaders are giving us this. Some of us aren't, it is fairly I've, given the present deserves a lot of grief for all the times. He said now began to fifteen cases with ease
begun to zero were doing fine, but it's worth note.
The door, mainstream media publications that as yet as the wheel, Honfleur,
as it was socially acceptable to call it back then was turned
You a story that only some of us thought was okay with a truly bad you to see other elegant full moon suits in there sprang what looks like
some sort of insecticide all round, or something like that was recently gave a sigh. Fine movie
and the general attitude of the the mainstream media and a lot of publications with real.
Ex Americans you're much more likely to have problems from the ordinary seasonal flu therefrom.
Ooh Hon, in fact, if your work,
about it. You're, probably racist and xenophobic. This insufferable,
owing to a lot of this. So I used to be a big
necessary reckoning for all of that kind of stuff, but anybody was getting classified.
The CDC briefings and whether their worst stories of these with a focus on health,
why did you hear that CDC briefings really bad? I kept person. People are really
Are you hearing and I never further details
but if there was like warning from the CDC that this is good,
really bad! Then people went out to the Publican said: don't worry we got this
then I think anybody was in that situation deserves the loser seat period. You don't you know, you don't know the american people and, on the other issues the torrent of this ass for the stock stuff, as you mentioned, Bur has less of an excuse
Lawful, says this is all through third parties and gives it a blind trust that all stuff sounds pretty easy to verify. Put the financial papers forward. Senate ethics Committee should look into the stuff
well, the things you might be wondering was YO. Did any informed,
sure from muffler her to her husband to or to weed out did the people
during the the money get any inkling from her about something that was coming down? The pike that by and large ADA a bird in a lot more troubled in this unlawful? It seems that in one of these was most baffling about this- is that your entire runs? A ritual story than propeller runs the second story and, as a spokesman from burst
spoke first spoke Mission statement that says well. All of the moves were made before the market volatility- yeah, that's,
residents scandal, guys, that's what I see what you really upset about this, so that that
not an excuse, that's that's the scandal so we'll see, I think, shake out from their. Obviously we have bigger problems on our plate, but look if you're gettin bad news about you know a major virus. Coming towards kill the killer people. Your first thought is to adjust your stuff.
Were folio. I don't think you belong in public office. Yes, so true or often all familiar with the whisper conversation is sort of endemic to media and political life. There you know, there's, there's gas open and things. People quaint are quite ready to say publicly, but the Whisper conversation has,
then take you to a whole new level. Last three and a half years when you have a lot of republican office holders, a lot of media figures, a lot of extremely pro trump media figures. Who will tell you one thing when the microphone recording or the
or or that the red light for the tv and on about troubled waters
I think about him, and then I will say something totally different in public just told
the different, but so this is a version of a Trump arrow whispered conversation about a subject that
much more weighty, then, whatever the lids ridiculous controversy as over a trump tweet, that this is having a
you and private of the severity of of something that could by our national life and has in just one
reason not telling people yet that completely different I've on this podcast before made the case from the perspective of
That's who do that as to why they are on balance, doing the right thing: it's not mine
but it's also not my job. I don't want to be a sandwich. I want to be a writer and I want to be a writer, so I can say whatever I think, but if you are I sent it to. You can convince yourself that publicly holding fire against the president within your party is for the best. But if you don't do,
You might lose your next primary aim or you might lose to remember member the other party that, although the president,
flawed in many ways
keeping him in office, keeping him working with Congress.
We'll be good in the long run for economic policy or will save lives. If we can end abortion or well help protect the second amendment or what you will there's no case here this just none it. If you, if you have been told that there is,
an impending pandemic, and you are sufficiently worried about it
and you are sufficiently convinced that the information is correct to south- not just some of your stocks in birth case, but all of them
Then you should not be telling people publicly not to worry. Maybe you stay quiet,
Maybe you sow leave this to the executive branch into governess. Maybe you say I don't know what will happen.
Maybe you say that you obtain that information and a classified briefing and therefore had your hands tied. But you cannot. You absolutely cannot downplay it, especially if you're revealed beliefs are such that you're selling all of your stocks, and I think we ought to be careful here because it seemed to me yesterday.
That we started grouping behaviour that was not necessarily the same. The birth story seems bad for the reasons I have just outlined, Kelly low flow of LE. I think she had a good explanation and we firstly, as was pointed out by TED Frank, if this was an attempt to protect her wealth from the vicissitudes of the stock market. It was a terrible one, she's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe half it
billion dollars, she will have lost. Ten figures may be more in the last three weeks she moved around or had moved around on her behalf or, as seems to be the case without her knowledge, zero point, six percent of her holdings. She says: look, I'm a senator. My husband is the chairman of the New York Stock Exchange. I don't trade myself. She said she didn't hear about it until a month afterwards seems to be true, and if that's the case, I dont think that she can be culpable hair and I don't think she can be put in the same boat as
yes, but you can make an argument that, because it is difficult to prove whether there is any communication between senators or people in positions of authority and those who manage their affairs, that they should not be allowed to keep stocks while in office. But I dont think that this is indicative of the sort of hypocrisy or wrong doing that. It looks as if.
Senator but is guilty of, and then we also saw Diane Feinstein pulled into it, which made it bipartisan bitch,
he too seems to have an arrangement in which is not directly responsible for her stop portfolio. I said, I think, probably
Kelly Laszlo will have our work cut out explaining herself. I think the argument that I have just made will be difficult to.
Convey. I think she may well lose the jungle primary that is coming up as a result of this work
Sue. Our explaining you are losing is too cliche goes one sure, explaining with terms such as blind trust and delayed notification, eel you're losing w and imposed case. This does seem bad worse than than bad, even possibly criminal, and, although I understand that he is unlikely to run again for office, he he should
she probably get out of the way before this becomes a scandal. Further thought you, Jim Gary, that's that's, circulated ex question. Jim Geraghty, richer bur will resign over the skin
Yes, now, no only because my expectations for public officials have gotten very, very low, I believe, is retiring at the end of this term
They try to Larry Gregor Chica. Why would he
nobody resigns anymore, look at what happened in Virginia and Polly Brazen it out we're not focused on this has really been discussed today. Wasn't on CNN Com, wasn
the BBC until this afternoon was an unreal clear politics this morning is not running until twenty twenty two and even then it will be him
doing the running. So I now I did the key. Well, I think you'll brazen it out because rural looking at other thing,
I'll make it unanimous. The answer is no sorted a few other things before we go Jim Garret, even dipping.
And two Nathan hails historical graphic novels sure. So last thing my older son was studying in his history class before before Corona Break, instead of spring break, got kicked. It was prob,
so they ok, we're gonna watch here. Let's watch thee, Michael Bay for a harbor movie, which he how you can chew the ground
right around here. It is very Michael, bash, great score
a lot of shots, looks terrific
you know. You do feel I get some moment. Optimist primes get a pop up to us to save them, Hatboro Harbor, but the last
half hour the movie is a very abridged verse
Doolittle, Radon Tokyo
My son's had read the Nathan Hale Book when books are these graphic novels that all talk about one chapter of american history.
There's one on lava, yet there is one on Harriet Tubman full of like little cute jokes.
I also know from really helps it heavy stuff. He does one on the Donner Party activities. These are exactly what you want for you know.
Preteen boys and they read the one on the other.
The Jimmy too little rate, and they basically have been committed to memory. So, every time Michael Bay decided to take some liberties.
Younger set by Sunday young. That's not true, that's not how it happened now, just so proud
It is a bit of rebuilding rebuilding weak for our lighter things, but that was one of the happier moments of the past week or so such I took you kids had been hiding under towels. While I was thinking they saw us now
that there is nothing in the world that gives anyone as much joy, ass, hiding under a towel
when, when you put a towel over its head and say
where's, he God and then you put it up and say,
and they see you get the shit that I've never taken extremely hard. Drugs
but I cannot imagine that it feels it and it's really hard headed. So unless, while a moderately hurriedly quantified deny everything, I can't imagine they compare to how a two year old feels when you play that game with admits. It is just too
join it was. It was a nice moment and a nice break from reading about the pain were seeing inflicted.
So during the lockdown self Quarantine face here, I've had to end between trying to work it at home, wanted cook extremely cook: quick,
lunches because you can't just walk out and get a sandwich anymore. Sir.
I discovered the the best quick lunch is to make a stove top stuffing
and you just boil water throwing four tablespoonfuls of butter and cover it for five minutes. If you put a near the stuffing and Boom
got. You got much has thrown into a big bowl. I realize just just eating matched up bread but incredibly delicious. I think as etons five of these things
maybe maybe just for maybe maybe ask if one day, but the fast and easy
so let's go directors picks before we leave Jim Gary. What I'd like to really strong contenders? I was very tempted to go with you relevance. Washington's respond
the corona viruses in the magazine. Just detailed fair, just do everything you do just observing what Washington does well, when its faced with a crisis, what it doesn't do well what we ve seen in the past, what were not seeing in this case, probably ferris criticism of the administration you're gonna find an granting them. You know that this is still a story in the works and that there is still time to
ex mistakes and in some of these situations, mistakes are just inevitable debate in the cake, but are missing colleague, Michael Brendan authorities, fear an extravagance and a plague just beautifully written Michael's. Always a great writer he's
also the opposite. One of the upper centres of this in Westchester, county and dumb got everything from historical perspective to the personal touch,
You know that there is also about writing years was judged open up a vain and let a bleed unto the page. I
I recommend that literally, in these circumstances, due to the possibility of hospitals being overwhelmed by die, he just
did it and it was just a really beautiful well written. I was walking in an adjacent to stop and just finished reading the whole thing on my phone, but it can cross yesterday TAT, I cook: what's your pic
like a piece by John you, that's up now on an Arab could pandemic.
Realism in the argument is that essentially, president chumps future electoral future
mutation of future is contingent upon the actions of governors. That's where power lies in our system. He has allowed those governors and forced to allow those governors to take most of the decisions and how they did will eventually affect him. He will be blamed or championed.
For their actions, it was a good little reminder of some of the perverse incentives within our system where we have an imperial presidency, but the same constitution is ever so might take,
is peace and Anna row by trees Jean about these so called wet markets. These wild animals markets in China there are completely-
disgusting, if you seen a video them, you know just how disgusting they are actually recommend watching videos of them, but they are incubators
The disease very well may have given us the crow
a virus and for all sorts of reasons, not least that one day deserved shut down
She made a really compelling case for it. So that's it, for
seamen listening to our national view, podcast any re broadcast retransmission on account of this game without express written permission of National you magazine is strictly prohibited. Despite gases enthuse by the incomparable, sir
surely makes it sound better than we deserve. Think Charlie. Thank you, Jim thanks specially to all of you for the bank
We are the editors stay safe. Everyone.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-18.