Welcome to the second edition of the editors world whoop, where we will discuss. Matt lowers alleged betrayal, the nation, with its performance at the embassy, national Security form, Donald Trump, bizarre rush, Ophelia in a hurry cleanse pronouncement that we won't again sounds ground troops to Iraq. even though there are already there and finally, the tightening pole, those as well to me are right hand, Salaam, executive, editor of national view. The right honourable Charles, look editor of Anna ROW and elect just Levinson senior political rapporteur for an hour Now, as you may have noticed, Alexis is not actually an editor but election

play put your mind at rest on the score, because really all it takes to be an editor is taking vetch constantly about how your reporters are delivering their copy. One time, that's that's all it takes so Alexis the whole world or lease the centre. After world collapsed on Matt lowers headed during and after this NBC forum because he has allegedly much too tough on Hillary Clinton into obsessed with the email controversy and let Donald Trump get away with murder. What was your take on how he did pretty some so what's been out there. I I found it sort of a pathetic performance on his part, mean more, so I think, because NBC actually has a lot of people who could have done that. in our view, in a very intelligent way, and I thought it just came off his leg. I don't know all eaten. All of it was ok hurry up hurry up answer. These questions were asking you know, even when he got to tough questions with her.

beyond the emails, which obviously are things she should address, but even when it got to what I thought was gonna be more the topic of, or the national Security is immediately followed by ok, but but please please be brief, which to me was like ok Well, then, why are we doing? We can get soundbites from them. If we want. yeah, it was a real desire I'm flaw, those just a half an hour for each candidate, and I haven't paid attention to the rules. Price or to the ten eight o clock, Do I turn it on as wait a minute? This is just an hour long. I wasn't going to buckling down for a batting the hatches for two hours of it and then Matt Lauer wouldn't have been my natural choice, my first second third, fourth or fifth choice to actually moderate. This thing but I think a lot of it. The criticism ran from where I sit is this kind of work in the rifts, as Pierce Block is set on a post in the corner last night, the the the left just can't stand

The idea that Donald Trump doesn't know on which is true and has outrageous opinions, which is true and gets away with it, and I just he's got away with it, though, for fourteen months and all sorts of different forms and with all sorts of different interviewers, so doesn't seem as though, as particularly Matt Lot lot lowers fault or his research possibility to bought him on every single thing. The other definitely and asymmetry here, which is that the things that are appalling to media critics are not necessarily as appalling to the folks at home. For example, even if you Talking about all this prudent failure? The fact that I'll drop emphasizes again it again. How strong letter Putin is too a lot of people who are inclined to support, tromp or even to sell out a swing voters it just. Doesn't it's not clear what all the above is about- and I am nothing that's right or wrong, but

this obsession, disbelief that, folks who are moderating these debates, the YAP Matt lower in this instance should be as outraged as they are and should really kind of press him. All these things just ignores the fact that no there's a good forty percent plus the population. That just doesn't feel that way. And so they also want to feel like look. We do want to tilt too far in a kind of Pro Clinton direction to so there are a lot of these complicated cross pressures at work, and I think that some of the critics of lower and others don't appreciate that. Well, you know some people might think that the Unfairness has been in the other direction yet there is some session with the fact that that loud and push back on trumps, Erech answer when he said look you can see. I oppose the were from the beginning, because what I said in a two thousand for Esquire interview, but one, The fact is, Hilary had already earlier connoisseur pointed out that he had said things in favour of the Euro or on the Howard Stern, show right before

the outset of the war and to what people think was going to happen. even if Matt Lauer corrected Trump. On that point, like he's going to collapse like the the witness guilty, witness Perry, Mason Show and say: ok, you got me, I'm a charlatan. I shouldn't be running for president. He just would have found a way to bull dog through in one One thing I am struck by Charlie is just how good trump is talking reasonably authoritatively about things he does but really know a lot about, and that's an incredible skill that most people would. EL, the pull off. Now, though, the scale many other politicians have as well. It seems to upset people less. I hold no brief for Donald Trump and I hope nobody from loud, but I've been a little annoyed by the criticism, not because I dont think its correct in many ways because of who is making it, the fact remains when Mitt Romney said precisely the opposite about Russia,

two thousand twelve. He was crucified for that. What is a correct attitude towards Putin? Is it wherever hit a request it happens to be a wherever is politically expedient for the Democratic Party in any given moment Similarly, this idea that Jonathan chain is shocked and appalled to learn that Americans get than you. From sources other than the New Republic and National Review does not stand up to scrutiny, asked John. concentrate on and others who came down hard on. Matlock know full well. Pop culture is the vast majority of our politics now, and it tends to help the left and that Donald Trump got away with some some of his flaws within that environment that Donald Trump Ass, you say is talented at filibustering Matt Loud, didn't push back is true, but is also

true that, generally speaking, pop culture fora, help Democrats. This is exactly the the complaint we tend to make. We say: look Barack Obama get softball questions, he is immediately portrayed as the cool and understanding. Kip. One Hillary Clinton is asked in forums and not just press conferences but places like the aliens How are you feeling? How are you doing is difficult being on the side of working people and hard being the first woman to be an internet? Now, here I and so forth, so yeah, is it depressing towards don't trump get away with his Iraq. Cancer sure he's not telling the truth. But it's not new and islands.

I'm always fill it. Desire to defend Trump on this is me was treated with the same kid gloves that left his candidates have been treated with now for fifty years, so Alexis. What did you think just out of the performance of the of the two of them Clinton and Trump? I thought he was. I thought she kind of fumbled scene. Spurious of all time, and actually just the thing that's always striking when I watch especially on the email thing is that she still just doesn't have a good answer to that she does not have a clean answer. She's given, however many different ones, and it just never quite sounds you know I listen to them. I can't you just get this right, this is something you know from my understanding of how campaigns work. I would have sat down with her if I were heard talk campaign eightam tonight. We are going to sit here for the next three hours and

will you can receive an answer that sounds genuine. That sounds reasonable. That makes a lot of sense on this subject, because you were going to keep getting asked about it for all eternity. and as such, that such a Hillary Clinton thing by the way, the practising for three hours you're genuine answer in coming up with a good sultan. With these genuine answer, I like I, just I always think when the campaign doesn't happen. When the candy doesn't have an answer to an obvious question that you knew was gonna get asked, that's a campaign. Failure like your kids In short, I sat down and said this is going to happen, figure it out and I don't, I don't understand why that has in materialised for her, yet I don't know it's, it's almost frustrating as someone who watches campaigns and expects a much higher you know. Cover a lot of Senate campaigns, and I watched the presidential can maids link. You guys are a lot better than the Senate can maybe there's a reason you guys are running for president and not Senate, and just from like a campaign craft perspective, I always apparently we. What are you doing just do better.

yeah. I think the my dear and emails is that she just she doesn't have a good answer. As there is no good answer- and I just love that there is a guy, stood up and ask that really tough question enough. If I had done all the things you have done, I would been prosecuted. You know any good to see the look on his face ass. She was talking, I'm not buying it and that's generally in everyone's look when she is try to address The emails and then she's not right hand doesn't seem to me she's very help very much by her manner where she just said Aims is Alexis alluded to. She seems kind of upset being there and having be dragged through this. Yeah I mean this is a bit of a front porch campaign where she is Certainly very dedicated to raising money, she's being very disciplined as disciplinary candy, but I I'm guessing? She has the sense that look, let me just lay low

You know just manage getting raked over the coals about the female stuff. Let me, through a few things out, you're about Colin Powell, and what have you and just through this and let Donald Trump lose the election and you know it's not. The ESA that's going to work because the things that strike her and, frankly, not just her, but many people, including many people in the right that strike these folks, that's so appalling about Donald Trump- it just is not enough to cheap Republicans from unifying behind him and It's just. I think she needs to do something to change the dynamic and I'm not sure what that is, the idea of just seen a kind of holding steady and allowing them to say increasingly outrageous things it's just that it's just not turning out as expected, yeah and and earlier. I us posting about this yesterday. I think Trump really did pivot is now so you became a different person or became magically more substantive, but that they put him in these.

forums. Where is not necessarily shouting anymore, he gave his education speech on Thursday, unlike an NPR voice, it was bizarre, but clearly someone's told them that being red faced and yelling is not helping and it was losing this election on demeanor and her feet if he just stops hurting himself on that front, its use he's gonna. Why gain on Ernie has air became suddenly Joe will Donald Trump pivot- and I think that an eye It myself within this those who are looking for the if it imagines that it would be perfect, almost ballerinas. Pivot, one day he's running in war, a and the next day? he's running in way be and that hasn't happened, but You can see a trend since he high carry on Conway. As I say an imperfect. He still takes to twitter to engage in petty fights,

morning, Joe than to fill the service where exclamation marks he still shouts. He through his immigration speech after his trip to Mexico, but he has changed and he's change. I think in two ways: firstly ass, you say he started to read the teleprompter. He started to show up to more serious, environments and give policy speeches without being bombastic or eastern necessarily, so he's also slightly changed his pitch, which is more inclusive. Now, that's going to be tough to do because he did start his campaign by appealing a certain part of the electorate and insulting many other groups, but I said a long time, although he would not have been my cup of tea if he were to have made his nationalist pitch from the beginning ass, an inclusive nationalist page? He could have been extremely pop

and when he talks about education, for example, he seemed to be doing that. I mean whether you believe him or not. It is a powerful message to say that Children are in trouble and that includes african Americans and whites in Hispanics and so forth, and it's a sort of message That can win and in the centre right country and I see him moving more towards them and I really don't know what happened if you keep it up in the new national review. I have little article about Donald Trump and efforts to limit immigration. Restriction. Is deference south that little I have probably expertly log and the basic case I am making? Is that few, are restriction test. I am someone who believes that we should limit less skilled immigration. You ve, gotta, think about the long term now also This week we had an article from the Claremont Review of Books called the flight. Ninety three election, which made almost there in that case? The argument here is that, for a very

a long time, conservatives have been losing and there are big parts of this. Surfeit of establishment that the author, the anonymous author, identifies who are quite content to lose at it, a big thank you to this. really interesting divide, because it really is true that I am a what of many folks are the right who believe that tromp is setting back the conservative cause and essay and the Claremont Review is saying something it differently sank. Look it's urgent! We must when this election, if we do not win this election, its game over and so all of these concerns people have are pretty, frivolous and ultimately pretty self serving, and it's an argument that I I really had to think about, and and- and I want to take seriously, but the basic thing is just about some: the issues that Charlie raised a moment ago. I really do believe that there are these big picture questions. And if you believe that Hillary Clinton is POL pot, Then you know the idea that basically this is irreversible the direct the country will

I'll change and that its senseless to think about what's happening for years now or eight years from now, or what have you than that, he's going to leave you in one direction. If pupil leave, however, that in fact what happens in the year twenty twenty? What happens in that? Twenty thirty is that these things are going to matter then act Really? If you are a nationalist, if you're someone who agrees with some of the causes that Donald Trump has very recently decided to associate himself with, then you know. Maybe you do have to think past the next few months, and I don't think so this is no brainer. There are, certainly very thoughtful and intelligent people on both sides of this question. But to Charlie's point in this, actually making this course correction or seems to me be possibly be making this course correction over the last couple of weeks. but you know maybe there is going to affect the outcome of the election, but I still want to know is this going to help chief the longer term objectives

Anyway, that's just something I've been thinking about and I think is very relevant to the course this campaign so Alexis. Where are you on the question of whether trumpets pivoted and if so, how much what the most the sign of the pivot from where I said, is I got Prescott, on our common regulation of time since January, whenever there against Trump issue came out. So that was those kind of a big moment, not that I think that requires applause, because I think it was crap that they weren't credentials. Anyone in the first place, but still big moment yesterday. I agree I think, of the tunnel pivot, not I don't wanna, be saying anything different. I kind of feeling that tuna Pearson remark a few weeks ago when we were in it briefly seems like maybe he was changing. Its position on immigration are considering something different and she said he's not changing his position, he's just using different words. It's it's a different position, just using different words, to explain that to me, as is kind

sums up the Trump campaign. There's. Never quite there's. Never, I think a lot of people envision the pivot as late, you are going to suddenly take positions that are general in the general population, seen as more general election positions as opposed to republican primary positions. And that's I don't see that happening. I think it's more. He has changed to a slightly less a tone that leaves people slightly less put an idiot possible to advance precisely the same position with different reasoning and thereby improve the position. I often think about this in an area that I write about the second amendment, for example, there are many people who agree with me as to what government policy should be, but then explain in their viewpoint, in terms that are horrifying

she when it comes to the second amendment- and I think it matters in advance, of the day if you, if you are writing a referendum question or an initiative question, you probably vote the same way with those people but it does matter, why you want to do things, and I think this is obviously important too, to write and when it comes to immigration, and if you, if you believe that the immigration system allows to many people, if you believe that we are not appropriately selecting who joins the existing polity? That's one thing: if you believe that people, We have different kind of skin shouldn't be allowed into the United States. That's another, and both of those positions or restriction is but for very different reasons and No, that Donald Trump has not quite taken anywhere near, not quite taken he's taken. Nowhere near that the second position, but in bringing people on board and in in formulating future policy.

it does matter why he saying what he sang and that that's why the pivot to me has been so interesting. Is that suddenly policies that were painted with an extremist brush, look pretty reed? Nepal to a lot of people, and I think it could help him so you don't think it's too late, Charlie. While I don't think he's necessarily going to win the elections. But if our question is has he permanently damaged, the restriction is cause which I know something you ve written a little bit about, and that worries you. I think that the course correction, if it continues, could well yield the answer no, rather than yes by the end of November think it's too late and I think there's some chance. I wouldn't say it's over fifty percent, but the some chance of trump shows up at their first debate and see plausible is a commander in chief, just barely gets over,

that bar that the election could just completely flip, because I do think you there's pent up desire for change out there. It's it's fairly obvious and Trump just needs to give people permission to say it's ok to try and there's some chance that the the kind of ham handed pay, she made to african american voters week or two ago what the hell do have to lose the. The whole country might buy into that proposition. If he just seems plausible enough, I totally agree actually just because I don't think people are paying a lot of attention until recently, we as anything yesterday with the chairman of the Annexes II, which is the organisation that elects Republicans to the house and his tiny metal, is pulling and someone please now. Ok by your pullings four August, most people don't even know the names of,

How can we re now? People aren't gonna, be tuning and until September in October, and I think it's very relevant, but he is saying things trumpet saying things the way he saying my now at this particular moment when people are starting to I feel like I sort of assume that everyone's always paying attention to everything, that's happening and in politics, and I don't think that's the case. They think you know October September is when people really start thing. Ok, you know trumps on the ballot on the ballot. Maybe I should make us think about the woman about foreign. Maybe I should figure out who all these other candidates are, and so I think at least bird in the Senate and the house, which I think a lot of people have seen as tied to Trump England's fortunes. The fact that he's changing tone when he is is very important as far as not perpetuating the storyline that he's going to drag every other Republican down with him if he loses. It seemed completely crazy to me the story a week or two ago about how'd that hurt

The Clinton campaign is about the emails specifically, but it seemed to apply more generally to their approach. Just really wanted to wait out the clock on the election in August and that's just impossible and its strategic game where the other side, I just need to readjust and if you dont readjust you're in trouble- and I think Hilary herself needs a pivot- never can have a great answer on the emails, but show us that somehow you get the deep misgivings about your honesty and honesty and trustworthiness. You'd, say tomorrow. You know every everyone in my family Chelsea Bill all. Thus cutting ties, the Clinton Foundation immediately showed some sign. You get it and she she's been unwilling you're incapable did you that Howard homes, they please just add one final thing on this- is that it's possible that from will be.

drag down ballot, especially in places such as New Hampshire. Maybe in Pennsylvania. We don't know it is early, but one under reported story is that Hillary Clinton may well be a drag attractive, I'm in Florida at the moment and I met yesterday, with some people who are NASA and we just talking about politics generally, and they was saying that when Murphy democratic candidate for Senate whole heartedly? endorsed Hillary Clinton in the last week that the the Rubio campaign and those even on the periphery of of Rubia World celebrates emanate. They cracked open the champagne because they believe that she is a drag in in a swing state such as far it is possible that she will prove to be ass? Much of a problem for us

House and Senate candidates is Donald, Donald Trump Wilfer Republicans and I dont see much acknowledgement of that. But the longer this email system goes on this email quest, Ngos, on the longer the Clinton Foundation, goes on now that they, have similar disapproval ratings. You could see and alive in which both Democrats and Republicans awful if not disavow, run away from their candidates almost unprecedented ass. I please

I was going to say, I sort of disagree with the idea that she's gonna be a drag in the same way. The trump would be a drag. I've been hearing this argument from Republicans for months now that Democrats are going to have to answer for the fact that they trust her than when so much of the country think she's untrustworthy and it's obviously created some about bad sound bites. There was be Maggie, has an interview with CNN, where it took her three tries to and then a clarification from an aid after the fact to say that she thought Clinton was trustworthy. I think the reason people think Trump is gonna, be a dragons because is not just because You know the typical republican candidate who is doing badly. I think it's because some of the reasons people objec to him are so outside the norm. For politics. You know it's. It's the Muslim ban, its be some of the re stuff that

it's not just normal politics. It's something completely separate from that and I think she may drag, but I dont think its necessarily for that. You know I think she drugs, but like a normal reason that people don't necessarily like her she's disliked in a political sense. I think for him is that this whole other brouhaha of issues that they can attach republican candidates to potentially it seems to me it's it's different. Is there any instance Democrats has been asked about something Hilary has said and had to run away down the hallway ORD disavow it and kind of avoid the question of whether he or she will support or- and this is just happened again on that Russia, question after the National Security Forum where he had to speak or the House Paul Ryan. Yesterday about it and it dissenting in the most strenuous possible terms from Trump

and asked whether he is still in a heartily, endorses them or is going to vote for him for it with enthusiasm. I said: well, I'm just gonna leave it at that, it's hard to think of any assistance unless I'm missing it. We're Democrats have been in a similar position, yeah, I mean son, democratic senators, don't say I no longer talk about that when you catch him in the hallway about Hillary Clinton through a lot of republican leadership for very extended period of time. If you said I want to talk about charms, they said I'm not talking, now how it will send a liberal political adviser to Michael Bloomberg reason they said one of the challenges Democrats are facing in running this campaign against Donald Trump? Is that their rhetoric? had been so on me undulated against every previous republican prince Central candidate in recent memory the notion that Mitt Romney is this horrendous possum We racist person, wants to put your back and chains, etc, etc. It just means that for people that

as Alexis saying or just turning into the election. Now it shouldn't commas that much of a shock that They dismiss a lot of the denounce here Donald Trump, even though the truth is that all tromp really is different from someone like Mitt Romney or someone like John Mccain and the question I'm going forward is: is that a lesson learned? Ok got it. We ve got a. You know, dial back on this language or instead is: are we seeing a kind of person, Ratchik effect ever Greece, single election we have? The mutual denunciations and hysteria actually just gets worse and worse. So, let's say you know by the time you get a twenty twenty. Let's say Hillary Clinton manages to when the presidency this time around and you have another republican candidate who, maybe endorsed Donald Trump that person then held accountable for being some kind of horrendous critical native is still extremist, etc, etc.

That's something I find all too Plaza well, that it's a wretched affect everyone about setting. I totally agree with that and I can see very easily if, if Trump doesn't win this time around that, if there's a republican candidate in twenty twenty, who has more orthodox views on fiscal, matters. Democrats saying you know even Donald Trump opposed Cutting entitlements in here, where they'll they'll be an attempt to make him seem reasonable, as opposed to whatever whoever the extra Publican target is when a sensitive they ve created a rod for their own backs on the left, whenever you make this point progressives scream and say your blaming us for Trump. No, but when you cry Wolf, you do bear some responsibility, or at least you make it more difficult to fight back against real wolves, but because,

the rhetoric against Romney and against Mccain against every body whose ever had the republican badge at until they die, has been so extreme progressives patsy- to perform a little jujitsu. I think so. The first example of that both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have now said. Look trumps like those other reasonable normal Republicans, Obama said we might disagree on tax credits or domestic policy with Republicans pad trumps different. Well, ok, but that immediately gives pat to man mocker Rubio in raw Portman. An advantage because they can say see the president thinks I'm reasonable. I'm not like this other guy. Hillary Clinton did the same thing. in her outright speech, but the other way it might play out, and this is again progressives hate it when you frame politics in this way, but unfortunately it's how

We view the wild, especially people who are interested in politics in the way we are, if Donald Trump shows put the debate and appears reasonable. He may cause an awful lot of voters to think. Well. What was all the fuss about evolve in Rome yesterday that Hillary Clinton really has a bit of a problem in the way she comes across, because she has if the flaws and none of the virtues, exciting politicians, often get away with being dishonest because their exciting charismatic well She is not that and boring politicians often get away with it, because the scene is being honest unreliable, who she's a boring politician but she's not seen ass? honest or reliable, so she's, a boring politician whose dishonest and that's all she will come across whether that's Pharaoh, not whereas done trump and yes, this is this: is this off bigotry, low expectations but Donald Trump? Is it he continues in this vein is coming to look, not

I go wild eyed crazy for the rest of the cap, painted the exact moment people are tuning in, and I don't know how you fight that. If you're the Democratic Party. Yeah it's it's. It's gonna be tricky and she's, just not, and if she's not very good at this- and I hate to say it trump. Also, when the real since he won the republican debate. Besides the fact that he insulted and bullied everyone on almost all the stage, specially job is? He does have a certain executive bearing to him, and he kind of looks and in a slightly bizarre away but looks kind of presidential. I am curious to see what happens in the debates when it's just one on one I feel a trump want, a lot of the debates in to the extent that he won.

It was sort of in the first. You know it was in short spurts. It was like the first ten minutes. He had this walk off line, but in the longer debates it was like he got tired. He sort of disappeared off the stage for long periods of time. Didn't talk in a sort of sat there, looking just annoyed and make leaning on his podium, crazy when it's just two of them and he can't just check out when the debate it starts to feel like it's going on for too long, because I really feel it you know he he always had the most memorable line, but then there was like in there were just forty. Minutes where Donald Trump didn't say anything, but that might help them. If we can do that when its wine or com to guarantee just go into low energy mode, to borrow a phrase of his So he has a couple of things that make the headlines the next day. If he's clever, they will be policy based or they'll, be within the bounds

tax on her and then for the rest of the time he appears almost all he is a charismatic ma. Am I don't like him? I don't like his charisma, but he is a charismatic man. He plays the load key role, and he ends up looking at you to be more exciting than higher, even if he's at ten percent of its energy. I think we can probably all agree with that right. the more exciting than Hillary Clinton. But I think, in terms of who is presidential, I wonder if he he pulls not off as well as you were saying because I've never I mean I don't know, I think if he starts look board or if he gets it, it she's proven very capable of getting under his skin she's, clearly figuring or if not her campaign team has figured out how to pushes buttons and evoke an insane response like what happened with you know this ongoing food with the confidently which just

in impose ridiculous. That's what happened, and I wonder if, if she man to do that during the debate. I think. Potentially she comes off looking better than people expect her. To well we'll see in a couple weeks. This is all the time we have for this weeks episode of the editors Alexis right, Charlie thanks so much and thanks everyone for listening

We'll see you next week.