Today on The Editors, Rich, Charlie, and Maddy discuss the Bubba Wallace non-troversy and the hypocritical difference in coverage given to Governors Cuomo and DeSantis.
• Rich: Kyle Smith on Ricky Gervais
• Charlie: Dan McLaughlin “Yes, Lincoln and the Union Freed the Slaves”
• Maddy: Cameron Hilditch “The Far Right’s People Problem”
• Rich: Working outdoors
• Charlie: The Floor Is Lava
• Maddy: Mr. Jones
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
the bubble, Wallace Non NEWS, the targeting of non racist statues and the covert non spite,
discuss all this more on this heavily accented edition of the errors, I'm rich Lowry and I'm is, is always least occasionally and by the right honorable, Charles Debbie Cook and Madeline Mattie Kearns ambition,
turn soon you're listening to a national view, podcast or sponsor this week is covered in markets more about that in due course, implicit, podcast, unnatural view, dot com, including directly on a corner. I'm looking at you and be easier for you and better for us. If you made as part of your feet at industry, Mr Watts's out there from Spotify to Itunes and feel like what you hear here, please give us a glowing. Five star review on Itunes, if you dont like what you hear here, please
forget, I said anything so Mattie we had an NASCAR drama, referred dramas across all aspects
of our society. This was a news story. I didn't say this publicly caused
has to too cowardly, but Charlie can attest to this the morning that that we discovered their. There was really no
news. I e mails colleagues a doubly the news to hurry and there are two things. One news stories are just very often falls
and two. There was something about the eve.
Enjoyment that Bubba Wallace seemed to take in in the this this moment I just want. I'm not a big NASCAR got by watch a clip of him going out and greeting some african american fans and and the the the broad
sir interviewing him that- and you know how amazing that this moment was something it doesnt quite feel right about this and then later that day we get the FBI report saying this is a garage pull that had been there
October told her twenty nineteen. Would you make of it
So the first thing I say as since you mentioned accents- is the feeling,
The way I see noose and news is very different than american, I said: is it
said very similar, so sad news story, that's a new story,
should try doing Jews and Jews. Do you? Yes, they eat I've paid my Jews, Freddy Mercury things which is very different in America, that is, church edginess, Charlie noose
I think I see past but anyway I always get the right move, regardless of how you, Sir, but yet this was that this was a non story. I actually, I think the whole thing is very- is very cringing for for all involved. There is a very hasty reaction to it from NASCAR Em, you lieutenant. You can understand it to an extent in the in the current climate, but I think it is symptomatic of a broader problem right now, where we just immediately sheer everything on social media, immediately report, everything without actually waiting to establish the facts. So I can understand, given the current climate, that Ill Europe, your black, your bike, man, you see something, understandably, with everything that's been so heightened, you think it could be. A great thing
you could be in some terminator. I think there is actually nothing wrong folksy following them up, but it was just like it is just not very helpful to just immediately put things out there and then have to backtrack and yet
is happening all the time two stages, there's no filter between Ireland and just like work. What people want to pull out snippets of various things? Yes, try. I guess you're right,
the causes to and ask our fan. We have. I can speak for Mattie, but I've never been to NASCAR than I believe you you have to now. One ask ourselves: if we got this report and water Protection,
drivers who that's way with the what the reason why we react to the way we did but just doing in a minimal twitter research.
See people pointing out? What is these things called garage poles and he could just look at one and the obvious. Why be mistaken for a news?
Now we have the picture now of the the garage pole and bubble off his garage and it looks more noose like than a garage pull that makes you saw it and isolation, knowing nothing about NASCAR. Tell my gosh, that's a news, but if you saw a couple pictures of a garage boys say: oh it's just it's just a garage full that happens to be shaped and such
We then that it looks more like a noose than the average gradual. What bothers me how's, the second wave of reactions a lot more than the first. I don't think
It was unreasonable for NASCAR to take this seriously, even purely from
the position of brand self defence. It is already the case that people are safe,
It NASCAR with good old boys with the south with the confederate flag, that is it
right now, outdated characterisation that somebody has been to a bunch of races, but that is its reputation. Nascar clearly wants to change that, and so it took the
allegation, which I don't think was made by bubble, Wallace himself seriously and a cold in the FBI.
Spected mask on you very quickly. What was going on, given that every carriage has the same pull and the FBI probably noticed that to at least I hope it did. But then
there was this odd second round of the sort that with,
Gus last time with the gate. Debate. Charm tool
swings in open,
second round were writers.
I know it is a new. I don't believe it it is, must be they wanted it to be now. Papa Wallis subsequently made a statement that put the whole thing to bed which
Good is appearance on town. Lemon was a little bit odd. He he fueled the flame
seems rather than saying well. Thank you too NASCAR. Thank you to the other drivers. Thank you to the funds for showing me this support thanks it.
They seriously ask
turned out. This was not what we thought it might be, and that is good
he seemed to almost indulge Don lemon, which is never good thing today, Heap clear that up good for him
But there were so many people
I said I don't believe it Charles PS one of them. I don't suspect Charles peers knows a great deal about NASCAR.
And I can't really imagine him working with his hands in a carriage, so quiet,
He thought he was an expert. I don't know what's
that they wanted it to be true. I think this is one of the problems here.
I saw this story and I didn't think it was likely to be sure I didn't think it was likely to
sue for a number of reasons. Firstly,
seemed in all thing to do other possible. Secondly,
access to those areas is locked down the idea that another driver driver all a crew, member or one above all, as his own crew members doing that him struck me as being extremely unlikely. So I wasn't. I wasn't really bored
Then, but but assuming that it's a good thing to investigate, which it is.
I was following this story, hoping that it wasn't true.
And when I heard that it was a true, I was relieved
but that doesn't seem to have been the reaction in many quarters. In many quarters there was disappointment. They want
America, to be like this, or at least they believe.
Market is like this, that this sort of thing is a bit rich and yes, it, although tedious and therefore when something like this term
not to be true, there's almost disappointment because we're once
further away from reckoning with what they
City to be reality. What this isn't reality? It was never reality. It is a good thing that it's not reality and
I have no problem with the first investigation or the way it was treated, but to respond
to the news that this was a mistake
starting with anything other than on a more joy, is downright evil? I actually think Charlie, though, that its it could actually be less conscious than that, like there's quite love, like psychological studies and in the way that your brain, like the vertical or actuator is programmed to notice patterns and, if european bombarded all the time with this media narrative that that America's systemically races that there are theirs widespread racism and lynchings lakes, their husband in the twentieth century, I think it is almost like yours is a confirmation by should looking out. For example,
Confirm your narrative, let lace because you universally wanted to be true, but because you you think it is true, as it confirms you're you're standpoint, you marry a us just related Lee
looking for this stuff, it's it's like that, their these symbols of evil- and we become this now
deeply superstitious society, where anything with ease
The most attenuated connection with this evil has to be crushed and and chased from our our public life. Another ridiculous example this week was the Dixie checks.
Who would really seriously consider that name to be offensive
or racist or threatening to anyone, it's completely innocuous name for a completely innocuous banned, but I thought
was on the seventeenth, someone in variety ear. Someplace like that road- and I am saying their name was problematic and, and just time has become compressed were now. You can write ridiculous out bad that aren't even worthy of being published and might not even have been published in a four months six months ago and get near
the instant action, the crazy ridiculous thing that you
proposing happens very often can actually Andrew Sylvan made this point very use. He said he's been mourning for years about camp is politics.
Since the hysteria and using you know, we all live on campus. No because, as you are seeing the best logic, just gets applied straight away and there's no processors, no due process, things are just changed overnight: histories rewritten overnight, which is all
the very alarming just just on the point,
accuracy, never never made anything else. You are rich. What bothers me about
That etymologically is that it's so selective in that the word Dixie does now.
Apply to the south and largely to the states in the south that formed the confederacy, but it didn't always.
over where the word Dixie comes from some say: it comes from Jeremiah Dixon who helped draw their Mason Dixon line the other.
Areas that it comes from currency that was issued in Louisiana New Orleans. The tent,
and I said this on them is french for ten, every jazz band.
In nineteen ten in.
New Orleans and elsewhere had Dixie in their name all they announced that they were playing
Dixie Land Jas it was common.
If it is possible for
Jeremiah Dixon, all the french word for ten to become Dixie and then to be shorthand for
the south. Surely it is possible for the EU
to mean something else in time? Nobody
associate the Dixie Czechs who have for a long time been outspoken on the left with the confederacy. Nobody thinks that celebrating
confederacy in the same way as nobody thinks that all the records that are behind me of twenty,
are in some way a celebration jazz. It was played overwhelmingly by African Americans freedom
its many, that nobody thinks that has anything to do with the confederacy. It is so attenuated, Eddie, so convenient and if
start treating mine which, like this, then the whole the whole thing's gonna have to go?
so maybe we have smart targeting of ridiculous sir
Riddick those targeting, I should say, of statues primary exam.
I'm going to bed now? Is the emancipation memorial and in washing
you see and when all the started out to even a month ago, if someone said oh yeah, targets can repeat here. Nance Upation memorial marking
the freeing of slaves and people who say that has to be torn down everyone. Almost everyone we're said it's completely insane the offence here or imagined offence.
Is that the slave is on his knees
and a subordinate position to Lincoln, but
in a video that has gone virals. Getting shared lot on twitter from an elderly
african american lady. Beside this moralists pointing out the slave is getting up for Hake is slavery. Was it a hideous institution and degraded those
objected to it, even though they they made her size made heroic efforts to maintain their dignity.
Sort of ways that they could
so why? Why would the slave be on his knees and about to get up now? Would we do it that way too? With the sculpture, do it that way would be
mission that waited. I know this was this an artifact of eighteen, seventy, but this
For me, a clear line between a confederate memorial that is
Universal Rises, Jefferson, Davis or Robert E Lee, who are on the right
of this dispute and a statue thou rising Abraham, Lincoln and marking this motion,
that made. Do it in a way that you're not in accord with our with our sensibilities right at the moment,
I think, is also do there's kind two schools of thought about what a statue is for some people.
The case that statue is to remind people of something that happened historically and it's not me
decidedly there to more or less
it's their artists instructed to inform, and then there is of course, that the other school of thought that there there too valorize and glorify a particular figure anything these things are incredibly context dependent and I I don't think,
that that there would be a problem of people wanted to have a discussion or debate about. Ok, how do we know you statues? Is it appropriate to the general consensus? Is that these moralize and see? This is how things are to be? Is it appropriate to show
ah, african American as a subordinate, no its not, but if it's there
as far as a historical remainder than is actually accurate, as you point out like that is. That is what happened here. So maybe there's a discussion debates God. But what is the purpose of her statues and is a more appropriate place for it? A museum am than just there
I think that the problem is that all of those debates and discussions and dressing as they are not actually happening. It's just a really comply
the indiscriminate? Let's tear down this is offensive. Let's get rid of it, which really doesn't
doesn't get us anywhere
Yes, it Charlie. Just to be clear, might my position. I am not against things marking that civil war happened or marking that's the south
made had incredible losses in that war and not against herbalists with names on them,
town squares, the names of the fallen, but will what he make. In particular, this emancipations memorial.
I think the point in its favours that it reminds us that slaves, the sheep
it were on their knees and subordinate position to Lincoln, and I think the point against it is that it reminds us, as you put it, that slaves were on their knees and subordinate position to Lincoln,
my view is that it helps us. Remember that this was.
What happened this is why Lincoln.
And I wonder how useful it is for that statue.
So. I find this fact of history have setting, given that that fact of history is upsetting, should be upsetting.
In Oxford. In England there is
Statue of the three mosses who would burn to death at the stake, and one thousand five hundred and fifty five and roll Anglican bishops, Nicholas Ridley, Thomas Crime, movie, archbishop of Canterbury, and he Lastima
and being burned to death is possibly the most unpleasant way to go
their say, that's fairly upsetting to Anglicans, should be the archbishop of Canterbury, watches back, but it
opened its memorial. There's no point pretending
Otherwise it's not put up there to celebrate it. It's not production
and triumph for victory, in that it differs,
some say, a statue of Nathan Bedford Forest is put up. There is a memorial
Now nobody who funded that statue emancipation
was in favour of slavery. Fact I've been
if every single person who raise the money for it was a form, a slave and, I believe,
that it was unveiled or inaugurated by Frederick Douglass.
A man who also was opposed to slay
having been a slave himself.
With the scars on his back to prove it. I read the speech that Frederick Douglass gave it the unveiling of the staff
And that's speeches unimaginable today in that its
he does not.
Lionize Lincoln to a fault he told
about America as cities. He talks about Lincoln,
ass? He was one point in causing the white Man's president, Europe,
ass to his shortcomings. I think that if Frederick Douglass,
and former slaves were able to tolerate.
That statue is a reminder of what had been one, of course,
you can only win your freedom if it has henceforth been denied to you,
I think, if bacon tolerated, I think we should as well
there is a much much better argument, in my view, for a moralising that sort of tyranny, and this
from it. Then there is a bunch of traders who wish to preserve it.
I see no parallel whatsoever between the case for removing confederate statues
And the case for removing the emancipation statue
So maybe we had also cultural front. Another item, another big Karen blow up. There is,
why does a couple months ago and such park, where women's working her dog aftermath guys
Watching and made they have a ridiculous said disputed blows up. Then course, its record on video and then comes big thing
So we had an another. Why? These, which I must confess I have not
they followed at all, but involves, I believe, two motorists. What do you make of it
yet so this was in Seattle and a woman knew we only nor name is lay about. No. The home internet knows her. Licence
number and address hides a well. The scene begins as a confrontation between enough can make men holding
camera like doing her and she is in a state of total distress. She screaming she's, crying she and she references the current thinks. So she knows what's happened. She tries to cover her face, she tries cover the license plate and he accuses her on this video of first of all of us caught her often traffic and and giving her the middle finger, which
else happened and then just serve. You just drops that oh yeah and she also called me the inward at which point cheat she D. Nice happen. I think when I watched it, I just thought this is like this is billing. This is just really disgusting billing and actually, if you want it,
but the parrot dynamic in the situation. Really he has all the power in this situation, as
against by her having essentially him into breakdown, and it's just one of these really unfortunate things with intersection, Elsie and that their says very particular. Unwritten hierarchy of victims such that actually, when these two groups can run up against each other there, there is actually a justification for treating what who would ordinarily, Vienna protected Characteristic and Asia as an oppressor and therefore anything goes, and I think the whole current things who calling woman metal middle aged women stereotyping them in this way saying that there are their threat to black man. There is, there is an option in the New York Times by Charles Blue, saying, I think it was tabled like how white woman use their weight. Women's have become leg and
men of terror. I think it was called something like that, and so it's it's really. It's really massage any is really like this naked misogyny, which is justified because because there's there's also a race dimension is really really ugly and actually that the original one that that they got a lot of attention that you described one in central park with Amy Cooper and Christian kid brother, not related, was was also think of weird lake and say
and to how these two groups think Cosu. She was she's, a liberal woman right, so she sites. Yes, MRS really weird ugly remark about I'm going to call the police and tell them that there's an african american mantra me my life, which in a way is as is kind of an invocation of their world,
They see the police forces and Shoe Cerveza she's using this threat really ugly, really strange, and yet he
He is also if we we can a step back, and we look at this instant before happened. He's also behaving abet. Laker like a car, and you know, he's ease of vigilante. Looking for an opportunity to humiliate someone, I make himself look good in the process which social media now just mix endlessly possible for people.
Trust. I think this guy from what I've read- maybe a hoax really.
I've seen a great deal of China Summit Summer on the left, suggesting that he does this and then sell merchandise.
Oh, but you could have told me that form of egg long speech, car
I'm happy to be wrong happy to be valid. I'm happy to be wrong.
The power, even if he's a holter, I think he may be different than the other case where the woman did threaten the man in central park in an unacceptable way. I think.
The evidence seem to suggest that he switched
the camera and then pretends that all of the things he is accusing people had happened before he started rolling
It was shown a couple of videos where he does this Zalm now filming. I was
cut off and this word was used, but it's never court.
Camera and within about five minutes
the video guy up, he had some tee shirts on sale. Profits go to him with her words printed on them. But what what a country where this could be a life in business
what what is it? This is out of proportion, but she said to him in the worried sundry. While she said to him, I have a black husband and he had a t shirt up on his website with that
in current marks, but the word have crossed out and replaced with had
get it and there was a screen shots of his store and a little pop up said. Thirty. One
Thousand people who view this design in the last hour.
I think there is a suggestion with him that this is a game. Ok, what does the minor conclusion and is just to say that you can't just anything you see
just for there's duration, save whatever crime has of cop cameras that cook
question on this portion discussion to you
The duration of whatever crime has been committed. So
I took exit question on this portion discussion to you first, the most ridiculous
facing or toppling other statue in
weeks has been George Washington, Ulysses Grant, think Baldwin
I think, probably hag
please choose one and only one, I think, probably hag, because with hag there,
no argument. You could possibly Marshall, even if you are the view that the United States is irredeemably races. This was a guy who came from another country, didn't even inherit
The sins Marken founding
and died at the age of thirty three fighting for the union army in the cold.
The population and we defend
I would say Abraham Lincoln, because I just think that if you really believe that Abraham Lincoln should be toppled day than you think that America is totally hopeless place and that's too depressing think about so
That's my choice, yet young and say either Matthias Baldwin or HANS Christian Hague, but I'm with you.
I go with Haggis Baldwin, where, as I understand it, this statue in Philadelphia entirely admirable
abolitionist devoted his philanthropy to educating black children suffered business consequence.
Is because, because of this work,
but that he was only, I think, just paint was just splashed on his statue plus I don't
Leave there is any real civil war connection or choice. Points out. Kegs of this abolitionists, who raises troops to to fight in the civil war then goes and lead them ably and then falls a hero,
in battle, and these idiots have no idea who years, except for he's a one guy on a pedestal, knock down that statue decapitated dragged through the streets and throw it in a lake. So is just it's hard to top that for encapsulating, been nihilism in idiocy. We're dealing with in this moment sell us pause and hear from our sponsor.
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so this crazy period of time were all living through covered and market dot com daily insides run the bonds and group. This is a resource I use myself in preparation. The segment were just about to have here about the resurgence and covered cases in the south and sunbelt. I was
and covered in markets dot com. I regularly. I hope Dave, doesn't mind me saying cough David to compare.
Notes to see what he makes a various numbers and just the amount of material and day
there. He is aware of that he's sifting through during this crisis and with the
It is truly astonishing and he does all service by encapsulating it in this. This daily update carbon markets
had come, so I heartily endorse it. There is a fact section now, Florida Arizona, California, Texas, that is is, must reading. So please check it out so, Charlie speaking of which we have had this resurgent.
In cases in those four aforementioned states. California tends to get less attention. I
no. Why that they would get less attend.
But somehow the meat meat is not quite as interested in California as it is in Florida, Arizona and taxes, but kind of last month, or so, as we had this re opening debates.
One of the points I was making repeatedly was originally to me: is ok cases or up a testing up the positive you rate in these places is flat or down. That no longer applies that the positive view rate
the soaring, especially in Arizona, not stated that the least numbers nerves on Heaven above twenty percent, which is really bad way, make it.
Before we talk about the new cases which railway saunter reiterate how crazy it is tat, the story
the last four months has been written by the National Press, as it has.
Long before we got here. Andrew Cromer had been appointed ass
the Saviour of the nation and run the centres as its pantomime villain as it stands, New
Death per one million rate is one thousand six hundred and thirteen and floors is a hundred and fifty five, the idea
whatever is happening in Florida. Now is why, or on the census is being criticised is false.
New York. It sir. I looked at comparisons lightly, but is is one of the worst or perhaps the worst hit
it's in the world, a news, sardonically said at the beginning. You can't imagine why California is being downplays, but this is a pattern, Michigan
Has death for one million rate of six hundred and fourteen again flawed as a hundred and fifty five Gretchen whip, my God,
her glossy profile in the New York Times yesterday, the title
which was a governor on her own. With everything at stake.
Lead Michigan through the pandemic, says the subtitle Rhonda scientists, let Florida through the pandemic to with about a quarter of the deaths,
I also find it a little bit odd. I must say just the way Florida is being covered.
And I said on this podcast when we talked about how
bad things where in New York that clever had a particularly difficult job is a big city, populist city
That is really the centre of the world and of american travel, both international and domestic.
And ass a result. I suggested that it would be unfair to be churlish.
That attitude doesn't really work unless everyone adopts it, does it if those
down here and far to say Will Cuomo has had a tough job
press in New York, pockets that charity and then says to scientists is a murder. I we can't have a serious conversation is to stop.
To allow clamour the benefit of the doubt and then apply. None to dissent is especially given that the death rate in Florida, which is more popular than New York is, is, is ten times lower.
So I think we ought to remember here that run the scientists.
The governor used on a magician doesnt have a crystal ball, doesn't have a magic wand, he's done as well as he can in balancing what our import competing
artists and adjusting on the fly
overall, he has got more right than he's got wrong, especially on the question of nursing homes. She wrote about rich.
Reopening plan was not crazy. It was a model,
it was in line with a good number of other states. It contained plenty of room for a just
and- and we are seeing that adjustment- I don't
where this idea that dissent is some unyielding. Ideologues has come from. We see
in in Miami in temper in full loaded down Saint Petersburg in Orange County, which is home to Orlando, that the authorities have mandated mosques.
At the state level, we ve seen dissenters, delay the next phase of reopening the said.
In general this week advised
mosque wearing this morning, just a few hours before we started recording this podcast
the department of Professional regulation suspended
ourselves. It boss. One reason for that is the wrong the fantasies, anger
with positive, been violating. The rules apparently have been quite a lot of them
and as was the case last time, businesses
towns and communities.
Taking their own precautions, all of our shops and restaurants. Here have all
either closed again or they ve implemented there.
And mosque rules. Much
two than they were before
So if you wonder why people in Florida, such as myself, seem so irritating
by the coverage yet again, is because we don't recognize the descriptions that we're reading in the national press and where bit baffled by the focus on our governor. Now, I suspect
but some of this has to do with tone.
Omar clearly speaks in a way that appeals to the press and the south,
This is more combative, plus gets interviewed by his brother.
Retain my misfortune of not having a brother, his hostess here I never so
so descend is more combative. Although the press is more common
if so dissenters is more competence to the press, is more communist. So you get to a circular argument, but
sell timidly with it such a man
How do you say, combative, Jesse carried out- and I guess I don't know,
But if I dont know, replied Missus, Jarley, we're pillar, I covered
this is is its time.
I don't know I'll, be honest. Why that particularly matters
Psmith just wrote a piece about governor occur and he said
who am, I said recently this week,
showed that in the end love does win. Love does conquer all that, no matter how dark the day, love brings the light. That's what I will take from the past,
hundred and eleven days and it instead
me and energizes me and excites me, does it great great? So
What does that have to do with thirty one thousand dead people? Have we really reached the point at which our primary concern is how the people who are in positions of power of speaking, what their? What then
tone is rather than the truth, because,
I care a lot more about the truth and the truth is the Florida looks worse than it did a couple of weeks ago, but it is also true, as Nate Silver has pointed out,
there really is no great correlation between the pot,
San ship of estate, city or county and the number of cases
that if you fail to the number of cases through trumps margin,
victory in the last election. The only relationship you get is a weak one that disappears once you account for whether and how many people had covered before
Juno. Sarah has a good piece in Bloomberg. Today, just read was published this morning, pointing out that yeah,
There is an increase here, but its laws,
driven by younger people that the hospitals in Florida and not overwhelmed that the death rate is not in fact surging and is down and that in any case
you're going to see fluctuations. This is very, very difficult to deal with
and over all. The state of Florida is in the lower half of states for death, despite having the third largest number of people and a population which is one fair
elderly and the last thing I'll say and I'll ask someone else, because this topic gets me irritated issue. Probably notice is it some of the cupboard has really told itself
The twilight Zone Florida has been singled out for can spare
theories about its data, which is just up
Silently remarkable, given that florid is data,
spend the most comprehensive and the most
spent in the country, you ask any
two analysed left right in the middle. It doesn't matter
which state has done the best job on data and they will say Florida and yet for some reason this is but
ground zero for lies about cover ups and men,
population and shenanigans, and I just think that if
we're going to
act in this way, every time there is
wave if we're going to try to rewrite history in this way to fit. Pre exist.
Parties are narratives, then, is
going to be a long long summer. So married astray points out Florida place in Florida are suggesting. Taxes has adjusted with Governor Abbot, closing down bars again, there's some indications. It bought this very bad news for choice of future now, but the bars in particular are a problem and may be driving the fact that young people are a disproportionate share of this spike.
I just it is concerned. He had a lot of us just were over the crowd of ours. You know we have talked about on the spot Casper for a very long time. It looked like in a we we're on the downward slope in cases in deaths and reform
the directory of other major western countries and now boom. We have cases a higher.
They ve ever been before largely driven driven by spikes in the places tat we ve been.
He bowed and their various theories, and I think we can say for certain why this might be
reopening, obviously an element of it.
It was a place like Arizona was, it is set to be hit later by the virus, then place like New York in a much more international and orientations. Major international airports, so was was the first wave
their later and then its remains to be seen. How significant these new cases Ares Charlie points out in Florida deaths continue to be down. Air Arizona and taxes have
the scene increases in hospital patients, but you haven't seen major spikes and deaths
theories. There are, will perhaps there's a less virulent form of the virus. Now, perhaps, who got better at treating it? What we certainly have done better treating it and then perhaps this this is just a symptom of more young people are getting hit by by this. This latest spike then before yet
So I think what kind of lake quite striking about the? U S in comparison to other EU countries, I think they have the! U S has like
times. The rate of infections is EU countries and dies also looking for me, you just like per head
Is it there seems to be lacking us or actual strategy, so in other countries the strategy has
been to get cases low enough that you can end of it
they trace it down and isolate them. So just as a convenient example, Scott, that is what Scotland
has done, but of course Scotland has a population of five million and is heavily
sized by way spinster
Missis Hamley subsides, so it can afford to kind of shutdown fruit for longer. In order to do this, my concern is really the same as what fate she has been saying, which is that we are going to see.
Another wave. I think it obviously is goods that damn face in me is mostly young people, but it is also important to remember that no place is actually managed to completely prevent the transmission from from you
people to people when you when you left locked measures. So if you have we, if we presume that Lake lacy up to five percent of the population will need oxygen or some can hospitals for if they get a virus dies, doesn't numbered adopt as being a doctor earlier, he gave me that number of its leaders
there's disagreement about that. But if it was his bad is that, then you would end up in a situation where hospitals urges completely
overwhelmed and then you have people dying of things that they should die off like a complicated pregnancy or road traffic accidents are something just because of souls are overwhelmed. I think that America, though, is really stuck between a rock and a hard place, because the new cases are at the moment to law
Two, I think, justify they doing the walk Danes again, but there also too high to two to think that Britain,
lately out the woods with this. So maybe I was renewed, the economist it was served.
Chestnut like best case scenario. The stomach
along with current levels of protection and work,
he's narrow is that work would have a much more catastrophic wave and in the winter, so I was actually noticing, though, just an undeserved anecdote that an eye something in Virginia just stay with friends
we went for a drive and we noticed it so we're supposed to everyone's post where a mask indoors here and we when we enter a bar ardour restaurant matters, Pickup
this and some people are re, mask and some people wearing, and my friend his American said always is so reassuring. Isn't it that not everybody is doing the same thing that the people are thinking for themselves, and I thought you know there is actually there's a prison that and as it is reassuring in that that something very particular to the american psyche, but when you're trying to do with whether public health emergency and that could complicate things, and I think
The situation here is probably going to get worse, but I hope it wrong. Yeah. I think you make an important point that the shut out just real blunt force instrument and are, alas,
what should be a last resort and the otter.
If too, it is robust, testing in tracing and isolating, and I think the testing element of that looks pretty good, were, according on Friday,
I believe the number yesterday was highest ever six hundred forty thousand tests NASH.
No, but I'm not aware of of anyone who
is maybe someone out there is, but it is doing
stellar job of tracing and isolating part of this
Ass, a Charlie question to you: what's this: how alarmed are you buys this spike
in cases where do you come down on the question this one, a key policy questions is being raised in these states
is, should there be some sort of mandatory mask or because
do you see and Arizona others have just one or two?
they leave it up in the individuals to decide and take personal responsibilities or leave it to localities side, while tonsils
sufficient first, I am alarmed by it and I hope that it doesn't spiral. The policy question is a separate one. They are linked, of course, public policy does matter
but again, Governor Dc Governor Newsome in California, governor curl governor dissent, as these people are not magicians and the new.
Was that were sitting on our screens are not the product of their intentions or their private thoughts other
but of a combination of public policy and
the visual behaviour
one of the reasons it's been difficult for governors to find. The right course is that you want to open up as much as you can. You want people to go back to work and so far
It is possible, but if they do- and they might start think things are ok and then congregate in bars and then spread grown of ours is one thing to protect all the people who don't work or in nursing homes or know that they are vulnerable. It's enough
we'll take to try to allow people to return to him
women and to keep them out of contact with one another, and
you're saying some:
Measures now to try to thread that, needle with the closing of buzz being the primary example. So.
On masks. I don't. I think that state governments have the power to impose mosque wearing. It can be a condition of of business,
regulation. I want to say this is, of course anecdotal, but around where I am, everyone is wearing a mosque, everyone, the local, supermarket local pharmacy.
The wine store that I got here because I can't
the bar, they all have
on that door. I sign not just politely request
more recommending but demanding.
That you are a mosque tomb
but primarily women around here by older Americans. I saw a very few people under the age of.
Forty five or the mosque, and even fewer over the age of sixty with
out now everyone is wearing mosques
if they're not wearing mosques, their time scarves around their face, what you will, but I thought
that it is entirely reasonable for county.
This we ve seen in Florida most of the big counties
the state to say that if you wish to visit a store or garbage or a restaurant,
then you have to wear a mosque. I don't think it would make more sense to tell people have to do.
Home walking around on the street, but it does seem to make a big difference. This is a sigh point, but I dont think it helped that for the first
few weeks of this panic, the conventional wisdom was that mass did nothing and in fact there seems to have been.
Some discouragement which we so
Wendy learned was to make sure there was no run on mosques and help medical personnel, which has no
intentions, of course, but probably gave the impression
so I did starting disturbing conversational. Someone earlier has been talking to experts, and this saying
he. He wonders whether mass a really effective the way they bent the trade, because there are some indications, it might just be the the spear equality and ninety five man
that make a real difference in and all the others don't.
But I don't know said something that bears watching exit question to you, Mattie Kearns of a morbid exit question: do you fear that
Arizona Texas in Florida will experience New York
style outbreaks, meaning the hospitals threatened with getting overwhelmed with death spiralling upwards and with the most radical lockdown measures being necessary.
Hurry to combat it is this just yes or no, you can you can collaborate,
Yeah, ok to a yes or no. I I think yes, but I I would be shocked and horrified of it if it was if it was actually a as bad as New York, but but I don't, I don't think it's it's impossible that it goes down. A similar cannot trajectory. So I am very I'm very nervous. I hope I am wrong troika.
Do fair it s. I think the density is the variable that gives me pause and gives me hope.
Certainly here in Florida, and the same is true in
two of our. Even in California. There is nothing quite like Manhattan, and if it is, the case,
The population density leads to the mass spreading of this virus. Then states that are not New York are likely to be spared. Some
about her, so I basically agree with you, but I'm gotta make amends
distinction say a word
about it, but I dont really actively fear it, partly because of density and just the different
said nature of of these states from Manhattan, which has already unique
B, is but one thing this. Another disturbing aspect of this is many.
Had counted on a seasonality break from this virus, and here we are,
Officially in summer- and we are seeing the highest number of cases ever
It does any possible rich- and this has been an embraced by the likes of night silver- that it is precisely because
It is summer and everyone in Georgia, Florida taxi, Ass, California and Arizona- has gone inside
air conditioning that were soon spike. I have no idea of its tribute is interesting. Theory yeah. I gotta pee son kind of diving moron
the numbers in Arizona a week or two ago, and that's one thing fishes there.
Doubt as well and its speculative, but you know when the northeast of being hard hit.
The northeast was inside and everything everyone or place like yours and was outside, and now it's the now see reverse. So let me pause.
And do in an plus plug if you haven't signed up for an hour plus, yet you are missing out the digital
From service at national view, dot com, we have
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Also. I sign up
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Read anything you want to read yours:
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Then mobs and then also, very importantly, this is a way for you to support our journalism that we're all
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just take a moment: go pony up and sign up for.
Are plus before we go. Let's hit a few other things marry. You have been won,
king a documentary called Mister Jones. It's actually it's a film a feature film called Mister Jones. Yet it's
Bout Thea ukrainian famine and nineteen. Thirty, two nineteen, thirty three, and just it's just an extraordinary like how the waste
basically were complicit in their media coverage of diesel, their resign, a guy stationed in Moscow, Walter, your who won the Pulitzer Prize for his as reporting their working for the New York Times, and he was just basically for
back soviet propaganda, and then this young guy Garish Jones, who was my age when he went off to Moscow. He was a young Welshman. An he like find out that people will four million Ukrainians were being starved to death, actually as part stones, five european as a deliberate. The poles
and he report this back and he em. You didn't want any friend, sir any big prizes for for doing that, but he delicacy he thought it was. It was
Important- and it was true and done yet is felt this film just really
about an it was also it was interesting, was looking up afterwards and screenplay was written by the grand
closer for survivor of of the famine and day. I think he heads like I'm a bit an asylum seeker to the UK.
Dates, and it was just like fascinating in horrifying just the things that the
his memoirs from her grandfathers Nemours. It made its way into the phone or a pretty accurate and dumb depressing, but important as well. Drugs
I have been watching the worst television show that has ever been made. Yes, worse than real house,
It is called the
law is lover, it saw Netflix, it's a game. Show much teams of three have to cross a room that is theme.
In some way and avoid the flaw which is full of bubbling water. That's been colored, read to them like lover, but my children, who are foreign to think this is the funniest thing they had ever seen, especially when people fallen.
And have been trying to play it themselves in the living room by putting pillows all over the floor and then jumping between the furniture which, as you can imagine, absurdities thrills me and their mother,
sir. I will not defend the show on its own merits, but I will defend it purely on the basis of my kids reactions to it.
So one of the many benefits of what I do for a living is
doesn't necessarily require being at at any given place
and this this time a year ago
that's my job with their eyes on an ipod, and I
do so this time a year I love working outside. So what are we doing? Dragging a chair onto a lawn sitting under a debt dogwood tree and and that's that's my office, you can't,
the better ones this time a year, so that let's do
our editors pigs, Mattie Car, what's pick my pick
is the new Buckley fellow Cameron held Ich. Has s e on? I was big review actually on the far right. People problem, I think, is a really good
analysis of of basically how the far right is ideologically and intellectually distinct from conservatism, and he
He goes into the kind of philosophy versus the ideology and various some malignant influenza
It's just really really well done so yeah troika. What's your back, my pig is Dan Maclaughlan peace,
on the Union army and its role in abolishing
slavery, which was written in response to a peace. By
gmail buried in the New York Times that very much downplayed that role and not in the interests which is fine of elevating
other voices are highlighting stories I haven't been told, but that approach river
seeing history and Dan Ass Usual responded with a measured and devastating rejoinder might take his Kyle Smith, wretched Jervis
his name surveys, surveys when you might say Livin, maybe, but mainly addressed as a refugee,
they Frankie surveys another resisting. Whilst that that would be, you don't be definitive them anyway. My pick cosmic unrest
your versus woke, comedy dogma. This is just something I'll write about frequently and is
is among the. What wonderful themes at that time was. Kids is the effort to chase a comedy from the public's square and
first to resist it. So please check it out. Well, that's it for us,
to a national view, podcasting rebuilt,
Yes, we transmission or a canvas game without express written permission of National magazine
strictly prohibited. This podcast been produced by the incomparable,
should he who makes a sound better than we deserve thanks, Charlie, take Mattie thanks to covered and markets, dot, com and tax, especially to all of you for listening where the editors and we'll see you
Transcript generated on 2020-06-27.