Seven day until Election Day, and Rich, Charlie, and Michael discuss the state of the race. They also touch upon ACB’s Supreme Court confirmation, Rich’s love of old ballparks, hipster survival gear, and much more.
• Rich: Kyle Smith’s “Happy Warrior” piece in the upcoming print issue
• Charlie: Dan McLaughlin’s magazine piece “On Accepting Defeat”
• MBD: Fred Baur’s piece “The Tensions of Joe Biden’s Immigration Platform”
• Rich: The old ballparks Twitter feed
• Charlie: His 4-year-old playing video games
• MBD: Sarah Watkins
The Manhattan Institute
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anything so envy day were a week out of this place
central election. We all then analyzing and obsessing over four months remain.
here is. Where do you think it's dance? I think trumpets still
already severe underdog at this point. You know there's
been some tightening innovative in a few states like or or trump seeming to, pull
further had maybe in Ohio and
You seem at movement recently and it looks like
like it didn't twenty sixteen in that looks, like Republicans, are coming home bite
it just does not look good when state
Georgia are looking as close as they are even some Poles having Texas, very close,
or Alaska much closer than it should be. That's a bad sign for Trump,
In Pennsylvania I was cancelled
in Michigan solve
you know one thing about this: race was half
Joe Biden has basically been leading by somewhere between seven to ten points.
Before the pandemic and he's led by
That amounts to almost all through the pandemic and network
ring up today. Any still looks to be leading that way nationally and in that
This probably enough with joy
the caviar that
I would be worried in a few states if
The Democrats about enthusiasm of voters, if in some them
for the reasons already over
I'd be worried about
worried about some of them
procedures for male in voting and whether a lot of people at risk.
Urge to mail in ballots will find their ballots disqualified. Ah,
people that we know where
stood male imbalance, ballots and didn't turn the men will show up
on election day, and they must be able to cast their vote
some states because they're off the list for eligible voters on election day
You know my worry about the those little things, but I mean the it doesn't. Look good for Trump
So that's that's where I now I mean
like everyone else, I am hesitant to say. Oh it's over we're just preparing, but I think
the range of possibilities is a narrow and surprise from victory too.
Everything, including a sizeable mandate for de trumpet vacation for were
Joe Biden declared on the night of the election, the choice we have discussed, many many,
times are not discount the Trump path to victory at all? But I thought there be some more evident tightening you don't see a lot of it and,
national pause, maybe see salvage and state poles, but a lot of the poles. Now you can just sort of predict that the good pausing for Tromp are Trafalgar Rasmussen, and then you see these pollsters popping up unreal Clare politics, where,
well. You know props up to and Pennsylvania no the auto aspect next to it, and I think the last one was inspired vantage any you cook it and its insider advantage slash american greatness. The rest of the poles are are not that are not that encouraging or not that different from where they were a couple weeks ago.
I think there are two main reasons: the time sceptical that trumps gonna pull it off despair
a lingering instinct to the contrary that I've had for a while, then that I retain the first is that it doesn't seem to be tightening enough ass. You say now that the one caveat I would add to that is that it tightened late last time and a number of the pieces, the diver
I have made the mistake of comparing where tromp was on election day. Twenty sixteen to our trump is today.
may sound silly because its October twenty seventh, but the real tightening happened not about the twenty Eightth. Twenty ninth course election day was later.
That said, I read enough people whose
pinions. I trust and who know far far more about this than I do, and they are saying this isn't type
In the same way, and it's not tightening fast enough. Look at congressional district, the swing districts look at some of the states. The first thing second thing is where it has tightened or where Trump is competitive, push you dont need trumped to be even or even to close to even in the national Paul's. That's not how we
president, but he does at least at the moment, looked to be running into a brick wall in the Midwest. I can absolutely see trumpeting Florida. In fact, I expect the Trump Whirlwind
I can see him winning North Carolina
can see and winning Iowa and a higher and
I can see him winning Arizona, that's less likely, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility and if you run through the poles from the last month, you can construct a case that those states are within his grasp. But that's not true.
of Pennsylvania or Wisconsin or Michigan or Minnesota, which he came close to winning. Last time, in fact, is more likely to be
Who, in a state such as Nevada rolled out John Ralstons early voting tallies, don't make it look good for him there either, but he can't win if he wins Florida. Arizona,
a higher North Carolina and Nevada Justin's enough rosy. He really has to win Pennsylvania, and it just doesn't look to me as if he is
so I wonder whether he will have more of a path then, is commonly thought, but that he will fall short of its final slaps.
Yes, Michael, you hurry talk a lot about Pennsylvania Pennsylvania, it's hard to get trumped up to seventy without Pennsylvania, they feel is talking to
tromp guy week or so ago. They feel Pennsylvania's like
the first of those blew off stage
in part just for subjective reasons, they thought the crowds had been bigger there and they said it more sense. Vent
de there, and you think the divine oil thing
It is really could be a powerful punch in in Pennsylvania,
given how huge energy is, especially in the western part of state, but us talking someone who has asked
S2 internal polling saw a state level republican poll last week and it was ten points here, just like a lot of these media polls and this person doesn't think Trump is going to lose Pennsylvania by ten points. But this is very optimistic. He he's going to get over the top and again
This is just another case where you know that it's gone to what the real clear average.
of any is now, but you know I had gone to seven and eight two, three or four like ok in the momentum sunny heading in that direction, and that-
do about the appalling era and a mass of turn out, but it looks like it, sir, just just at reach at the moment
Yeah, my friend TIM Corny, whose written for us near here,
the Washington examiner he's out in Pennsylvania this week I spoke to him before we recorded, and you know
he's going gonna be going through these Obama Trump,
I wasn't trying to take the temperature, but so far it looks
looks. Like Biden is gonna eke out.
Years ago, trucks humor me this product
in that for every blue collar worker they lose. You know in pencilling
they're gonna game too in the suburbs, and it hasn't come to that Republicans haven't
lost fast enough in the suburbs, for that
be true, but Republicans are gaining enough in lack a Wanna County for
for them to win on the strength of this in a unique trumpet
public and voter
I think even more troubling for Trump is
a place like Wisconsin and Michigan, which are experiencing like the their big surge in covert cases right now.
This is something that was predicted by
you ve all living at a high,
this summer. I saw he noticed that
The upper MID West was one of the only places that didn't have its big surge between the spray
in summer, which made it very likely. It would see wine as we get in
the fall in its
actually what we're seeing and enough if, if
The issue of covert is hurting tromp, it's gonna be most
of mind in a cup of those
council that he needs to turn out for a win?
he only one Wisconsin by white twenties
He needs everything about you can get in and
What we are seeing now looks like it's gonna be depress his turn out
pretty severely so breaking
is actually as wrong about three a clear politics: average. It does have Pennsylvania within three or four five, six, eight three pointing but its Trafalgar
my insider advantage american greatness pole that are doing a lot of work on that down a little bit and if you just just look at the kind of lot longer form version of the
clearer, aggregation page for Pennsylvania? The sincere
vanished. Pull has top up too. He hasn't lead in any other Pennsylvania, paw sense, back
in May, when there was a CNBC poor that had em up for so try. Another covered point
when, when we're talking in August, that you know want one point, I always make covert gotta fade, crowded, become less of an issue is one of the break see he needs
has not been at all. You have the renewed surge, and you have trump talking about
exactly the same terms
is going away. People should make a big deal of it, but you you think this is an ass.
Vulnerability. Is he talked about last week and our friend David Bonds and has a piece of posting tomorrow saying that the code is actually an Achilles heel for by
since he has a shout associated with the
shutdowns. I think it's a worse since the cause a judgment cool. I have never been of the view that it is fair to pin ass. Much of this on trumpets has been pinned on trumped, but that's a separate quest
and from whether it has been- and I thank her and of our seas- played a large rural larger than I think you think in diminishing trumps chances, but I don't think that's what's killing him at the moment. In fact, I think it's a wash I'm not quite where Dave advances. I don't think it's a liability for Biden, although I do think that the difference in their approaches is going to help spur trumps. Most loyal supporters.
But I think trumps message, although it has been broken, clock has finally come into alignment with the time and if he does failed,
to surprise everyone in the Midwest. I don't believe it will be because, if current of ours and one reason I say that as an example, is that yeah there's an increase.
Cases, Pennsylvania and in Michigan, but Democrats do have a lie.
Reality there if their own forget Joe Biden for a moment, in fact that to be the title, liver
book about this. That accident letting forget to provide- and for a moment almost non factor- forget Joe Biden for a moment.
Wit, my has annoyed a good number of people in Michigan and if Topshop has seen seemed Plaza, say she's often seemed authoritarian.
and the same is true in Pennsylvania with the governor and
action, some of which have been struck down by the courts, so I'm not convince is gonna, be the deciding factor in those states. I do think, though, that what Trump has already done has contributed to a fair
Assessment of the man ass, a risk as unserious S,
I scented sent it competent and that is very difficult,
for him to shake, especially while corona virus continues to make headlines, but I don't think
as I am by Evolve events protection. I don't think that's what's going to decide the midwestern outcome so, Michael all, they said. I do think that Trump vote is coming and it is out there- and this can be a massive
rural though he wouldn t, I think at this juncture I would bet on it overcoming of the opposition, the trumpet and then in the suburbs, but
there there just anecdotally with a knife. I was make fun of Charlie for a reliance on anecdotal evidence that actually refer her tits this this evidence of a massive enthusiasts for trompe seat at the the rally some each system still packing and thousands and thousands.
People and I do think they're gonna, be there forum
question whether they are going to be able to overcome the soon army. Other way here
I think it's always
been a question
then the sort of
tromp voter, who try
success, is is not just the voters he added.
Republican coalition. Instead,
sixteen she held as much of the Republican College,
Taylor as he needed just just barely. I think every continent helped him do that right. I mean this: is
someone that treasure Republicans had been used to opposing since ninety ninety two so and ninety two I dont know if he has that benefit this time.
and you know there's more: there are fewer voters,
the king kind of project, their hopes on him.
in the same way they could. Four years ago I like people who talk
ok what promises hasn't he.
At twelve noon
in our home, you know at one point I think the people had
feels pointed out. He promised
erase the national debt within eight years,
I'd kind of forgotten about that one. Until I saw a cliff swan and crews
forget about that too. But I mean he benefited from all of that messaging, because I think what we found out was that-
It doesn't matter if it's not all coherent
It does matter, though, that people here what they want to hear right. So people who thought of him
either. As is the thing. Let me I think a lot of us did in TWAIN. Sixteen, where we all said well Trump, is bringing this populist nationalist
energy is reviving this, be cannon style of politics,
republican Party. That was true, but he was many other things as well right, I mean here
Also someone who wanted
turn the Middle EAST in the class, if it fur provoke
he was also- and this was very important- a business man that was it
a kind of fantasy among rocks,
looking voters and even some populist voters going back to Ross Perot, is that we need a government run by someone who knows how to run a business. You know
Not all those fantasies have come true, like we don't have lower debt, are our spending and borrowing isn't in order? Are
we don't have a warm southern border, so he's disappointed on several fronts.
The people who were with him because he stanzas, as you wrote this week, rich that he is like a middle way.
here too, the establishment.
I'm, I'm surely will turn out to be. A huge
factor and republican Party, even if he loses bite.
you know. If you lose, is you know people
and look at the commission say what can you add to this in the future
you add to it. If this is the kind of Tom
Temperature feeling and style of that Trump coalitions, politics,
it's a losing coalition, it still has to.
urgently attract people into it, and is it
Is it a college, and I can only exists because it exists in this sir repulse,
Marina relationship, we were pulses. Other parts.
The country that my vote for the republicans- that's gotta, be a huge question. If it turns out the way, I think so
What one we're thing about this
control. Is that so far
Cincture issues have been
the missing in action. They know you
who would have guessed six months ago. Well, he's really gonna put the word. Aren't Joe Biden on Trade,
he's gonna go after him for his support for for wars and enforced
interventions, and that's almost been absent. Immigration is, has almost been absent, came up a little bit and that the second presidential debate otherwise has
much discussion of it, one of the kind of best pieces of trump messaging I've seen recently and I'm not
on border allotted this, sir, by the trade aspects of it, but is the sun way
Venus is four minute video that sad,
than are running at rallies, where it has by talking about trade now great-
after is, and people saying, there's no way trump will ever be able to renegotiate the NAFTA and then a bunch statements from from Biden about.
China's never navigate. Our line should naturally rod. Consider China, a competitor
It seems to me that that videos is very effective, but is is notable exactly for the fact that there has been much of it. Otherwise, yeah he's don't run in the same company did last time, that is to say,
and to be expected? Because he now has a record. He can't talk too much about immigration because he hasn't done what he said. He was going to do.
He has also been somewhat corrupted
one of the reasons that I am less upset about trumped than I was.
Four years ago, is that he didn't come in and spend
five trillion dollars on infrastructure and put his sister on the Supreme Court and try to crack down on the first amendment and Bypass Congress. It every juncture the Republican Party got its hooks into Trump in many ways. The most obvious domestic achievement
with the exception of the re making of the judiciary is attacks cut? That was largely written by Paul Ryan, and that makes it more difficult because he's not running against a blank slate.
he's not running against the entire establishment anymore.
But it doesnt explain why he
is so unfocused and why he.
seems unwilling to hit the same notes that you did last time. He doesn't talk about trade enough. He doesn't talk about immigration
he's got a new theme, one that was less prevalent last time. He says, he's the Lauren.
The candidate, but that's complicated by his having signed the first Step act and
wanting to hate Joe Biden on the ninety. Ninety four crime Bell
He has an advantage when it comes to actually liking America or at least saying that he does and defending it and its content
nation, Lauder and its historical conception, but that
the more traditional republican position as well. So we don't
have the insurgency here. Yes, partly because his the president is difficult
run us an outsider when you are the president, much as they would try, but also
just not doing it, and I
We wonder why that is, and I wonder whether it accounts for my suspicion that his weakness is time around is going to be in the Midwest,
yes, so sad that biting a little bit and biddy if I'd winds are probably because the central bet of the Bible can receive from the beginning paid off, which is
you don't have to light a fire under anyone. You dont have to fire up the old Obama coalition. You just need to have some appeal more
little more appeal than Hilary and the middle
Austin and those former blue all states, especially and be
a little less offensive
to some voters, it's one, the Trump and twenty sixteenth year
That is the lesson
A fine wines, everything his campaign did will be hailed as some kind of genius
read of the country
prepare yourselves for that. But you know.
Biden Leave has been solid glutton. As I said at the beginning, you know it
basically been the same led for
almost two years now,
in a way that explains why the campaign has had knows
substance whatsoever right and that also, why think Trump?
expressing his frustration.
The binding is in the basement the whole time
and trying to make an issue of that. Because Biden isn't
talking about issues for the most part here,
peep barely even understand them. You know he couldn't you describe it up,
look option was in the last debate, even though his calling it Biden care so it's.
It's been a campaign where Joe Biden is major,
argument has been come on. You know me
Just those countries come on man, I think, is a technical term. Can I can I mean you know me,
What were you saying is like he's inviting you to remember? Ok, I don't think
Joe Biden is a crazy, Leftists or
come on. You know me, you know, Biden cares for the working class
oh come on. You know me
I can embarrass you the way that
from does on the engine
national stage. I mean it's, that's that's! Basically it
I mean he's basically saying it's me. Just choose me
and you want to think about me all the time that turns out to be pretty pretty power.
I dont think it bodes well. I mean this is probably perimeter.
but I don't think it bodes well for governing agenda, as I think it will feel like
the binding agendas totally up for grabs, even if he wins right that, in a sense it
He may not even be credited for his own mandate or it won't be clear what what issues mattered
to voters in choosing him, since it's so much of it seems to come down to this. You know essentially like a personality contest. I think that when the Democrats, when, if they day they're going to fail,
a few weeks as if they ve won a war and then they're going to realise that Joe Biden is going to be president of the United States right. I don't think
and we too thrilled about that and and in fact I think it's going to be an odd backdrop for what we
be an inevitable democratic civil war. Can I can I can I circle back to something that I think is worth saying that connects to,
with the failure of trump to run the same.
the campaign he ran four years ago.
The Hunter Biden issue that it has taken up.
Of press on. The conservative in the concern
media for weeks.
There is within that a story that you can tell that he's a populist story right, like you can go back to reports.
Even on from leftwing sources, about how Hunter Biden invested,
millions in the companies that bill
China's surveillance state that's being used to torture,
Muslims in its western frontier. You can talk about. You know.
Biden favouring these trade deals and then his family getting money from China,
you talk about. The hunter
consulting with China. China is investing in South America, which is in a one
new development today, so Biden
hold out american jobs to China announced helping China violate the Monroe doctrine. You know you could,
blended than into like a trump in campaign message, the Hunter binding measures.
instead, its come off is just a smear as lake.
Hunter Biden is a bad guy? Does drugs, maybe consorts with prostitutes, and isn't it disgusting
and shouldn't Joe Biden have to talk about it. It just like
It's like they didn't know how to message to tell their own story of why you should elect Trump right at it,
The story is kind of slid into this thing of like Hunter by
dissolute life rather than the corruption of the political class right that members, the democratic political,
class in the Eightys and Ninetys made this turn toward internet
No trade finance,
etc, and then they got
rich and then their constituents got left behind. That's the term message
They just didn't make like it's just a they ve blown it
its astonishing. And if you are a trump fan I mean
Slick milk, malpractice, the earlier I get peace Michael about how trumped cattle
stories. You just can't really explain anything pervades prostration of mine, which are expressed repeatedly on this podcast
you that covert. He can explain clearly that the good stuff and policies
all right but try the thought. This all goes back to undermining all this is selfishness and a lack of discipline and of trump thanks, but beneath the waves that was it
These are the biggest reason ass, an astonishing charge. You're making this president Rich
necessary, is he hasn't changed and it hurts him
you said so many times but forget for a moment what he should have said, what he should have focused on how he should have campaigned. Dont tram would likely have benefited, at least for most of his presidency
Perhaps this wouldn't have work under current of our circumstances, from hiding in his basement himself. If don't jump had to shut up for three, as people would fill a lot better
TIM. There really think he's good on the economy. Nothing seems to be able to shake that,
not even the pandemic, not even two hundred thousand deaths, not even
enormous recession that has occurred on his work, but he is throughout.
Used his position and his time
to annoy traditional republican voters or at least republican curious votes.
I have no issue whatsoever with the president telling the media that is biased or wrong. I don't like the way he does it from time to time, but I'm less upset about it. The most he hasn't done anything to impinge upon my rights or anyone's rights. This,
speaker or journalist, but why on earth does he spent his time?
on, twitter is going off to Jos, copper, accusing him of murder,
any hope that this will change in the last month. Last two months of the campaign,
It's really gone away, he's not lazy, it's not a matter of work ethic. He works pretty hot and yesterday
He went back to the White House in the evening to preside over the swearing in of Aimee Coney
an early at night. They hit on three rallies three one,
Seventeen campaigns heart seventy three year old man. He did three rallies in Florida,
each for an hour and a half his voice was noticeably horse.
there's that you, like the movies, bring stain of of campaign rallies
he's entertaining Sumter
in less than
salubrious way sometimes,
a genuinely amusing, where he's funny, but the content is
it's it's so in Kuwait and
seems to be driven by what he seen on television, what he feels that that particular audience might want to hear what he said,
It is important that day
and you can't do that for three and a half years,
and then campaign on the same platform, yells touch, but this also repeatedly
That any one of these controversies in accusing Joe Scarborough murder at that and heard em, it's just the this
Eddie accumulation of of all others
the things clearly is misheard badly? He exhaust people so speaking, exhausted. I fear
or listeners will think we sound exhausted this bit of very subdued podcast have far with real autumnal tone, but there's gotta percentages, because this election has not happened yet, no one,
It knows, what's gonna happen, envy DE. Where are you now.
I mean, as it twenty energies
closer, I'm sinking slightly pride
I'm pass out six,
percent chance of winning vouchers, reels anxiously. It's a real
not now validity and not fifteen. You think a lot of meetings over sixteen mouth is now. Basically what does nights? What's? Five thirty, eight thing like thirteen percent or something
years of them like that, but I think it's pretty needs pretty well
and you know it's it's.
I mean it's weird Harry couldn't
Experience politician was felt by a guided, acted like a means.
and now the insular countries can be felt by guy huh,
in his basement, through its
there are no rules anymore
Charlie. I figure at thirty five on Friday, thirteen dropped a little, but I can still see the power.
and ass. You say I think his vote is coming and I won't be shocked if he wins.
I just think that, on balance
seems unlikely yes, I'll, take down we'll take down to thirty three, a movement and a small band
try your numbers. Are you ve been all over the map? Fifty
twenty five, forty thirty thirty five. Thirty.
There is already a nice guy. I know what I mean. It's like its there's your subject to more of the campaign
right! I mean in away like the
and let me you may come across.
both online- and you know
on television, if you, if you do broadcast the kind of-
think of conversation, like everyone knows button when New Yorkers
go it's easier.
Eddie. Here, if I was, a guidance adds got better and better in Florida, and its
trusting that none of them have anything to do with corona virus anymore he's. Did you see up? That's how we are absolutely
I say more widely known, exert another feature. This race is just that. The huge fundraising advantages that the Biden folks of poured into
at the risk of drawing another admonishment from Europe, for my
in anecdotes till the guide, the bar sailors,
was the tv now does pay attention over there
the disconnect- and I don't know how it will play in the election proper. But there is a disconnect in that there are many by finance on the radio, and there are far more Biden adds than Trump ads on tv and it's not just
run by the Biden campaign. But there's a bunch of independent groups that are running Biden adds independent pack and republican votes against jump, and so on. I don't know the exact numbers, but in my experience has been maybe three or four to one Biden Trumpets, but
Be in person, meetings in rallies and groups, the canvassing efforts and even just loan
signs a wildly in trumps favour in
town, but also in some of the neighbouring towns.
There are real trump meet up, you drive, pass them and there's a hundred people that two hundred people that, whereas the Biden meter
seem empty. Now that doesn't mean violence not going to win, but it does, I think, reflect a slight difference in the way that the campaigns have approached this election, partly because of it
parity in fundraising, but also how they have seen it from the start. I read in the New York Times that the Trump Ministration ass, the trunk campaign has facilitated the knocking on millions, millions them a hundred.
In short, the New York Times said undivided campaign has not
and you just see that even where I am in nor Florida and the difference between this relentless barrage of ads on tv compared to people knocking on the doors- and I will vote for them from, is very different way of approaching it.
Yeah, no absolute, if Trump wines that will be one of the major storylines and in their their calculation and maybe look the other they just don't have not enough.
as much money as they like, so they can't matched by none on tv. But what I say is: look it's Donald Trump. Everyone knows
you know he's on tv all the target, we hear tv hazard, swaying people one where the others they just makes much more sense to
invest in this really intense and personal, get out the vote, effort so
We shall see. Let's pause here from one of our sponsors. This week, black rifle coffee, company, Evan Hoffer, founded black rifle and two thousand and fourteen long was Army Ranger Matt best that the combination of two passions felting premium roast to order coffee and supporting the veteran and military community black rifle coffee is continually committed to supporting veteran law enforcement and first responders causes with companies buy a bag, give a bag campaign. It makes
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recordings Tuesday afternoon, Charlie, had any Conny bear it confirmed by the Senate Monday evening than a-
Banks are champion showy events at the White House,
swear her n. I thought ass a little girl
Z and over the top, especially the balcony element of it, but moving too
Clarence Thomas administer the oath. The earth itself is quite
stirring and then she gave further brief but very pointed remarks that she's not part of any,
go faction she's, not world. Anyone except for her to her own in the constitution,
the law. Would you make of it? I use a great day, for America's is exactly the sort of person we should one as custodian of the
institution- and I am glad that the Senate,
and through the nomination as it did and chose to appoint two, I think you can tell
just how well from start to finish. The process went by the fact that
Senator Mc Caskey said at the end. Ok, I was against the process, but as opposed to the persons, but I simply cannot vote against this nomination is qualified and she has qualified. She is Stella, it's a good thing for America. She has the right judicial philosophy, which doesn't mean she has views that will lead to outcomes. I like me, she has the right judicial.
philosophy and the Senate should be proud of it, and we should acknowledge that this is an area in which President term has excelled and delivered many of the fears about president term before he was President Trump,
revolved around this era, he clearly does not have strong views on the judiciary and he's outsourced this largely too much Mcconnell. That's a good thing
I thought the reactions that we saw immediately afterwards ranged from being on hand to absolutely hilarious for the unhinged ones. Just pick up, the new
times today, the role and the opinion pages for the help
There is one issue watching his view with Nancy Policy last night, which she tried with a straight face to make the argument that we need to expand. The number of justice is on the supreme
but because there are more american citizen stout and there were in eighteen, sixty nine, and this is funny for an hour
reasons. Firstly, that is it really ridiculous argument on its accounts and
clearly heard somewhere people trying to make the case for packing. The other courts are expanding, the other courts, the lower courts, the courts of appeals and she just
a little bit wrong, have dragged it backwards and forwards through Google.
translate and ended up making them, but the third
Then it's hilarious and by hilarious I mean sinister, is dead,
straits, how Nancy Policy and her party and her political movement view the court. If Nancy Policy were actually concerned that the american system of government
Keeping up with the population growth in the United States, she would propose expanding the house,
of representatives which she runs. The legislative body
it is most responsive to the people. She didn't she.
much of it. She could have said that yesterday, but she didn't. She said we need to expand the Supreme Court. Why? Because she sees it as a legislature. There is no problem with the current size of the Supreme Court. They are not inundated by work and they are not behind with their dog it. It is a tradition for people who are trying to make the case to date
The courts to get their own way to pretend that the court needs to be expanded for some reason. After tribes, Davis
there too old, yeah empty. I tried this in nineteen thirty
haven't those with his two arguments that the justices were too old and that the court was behind on its work. He was instructed very clearly very quickly by the chief justice at the time.
that that was not true, which went some way to leading to his defeat on the question and that trying it once
but but it was funny with transparent was pathetic, and I think if they do try to do this, which I doubt will happen, but if they do try to do this, that very quickly going to run into a brick wall. Because
Whatever wishful thinking you might read on this subject, it sounds self evidently stupid to normal people and will do if presented in Earnest
So much I remembered talking as some colleagues privatized sixteen election and they're they're they're, saying not only.
Somebody trumps algorithm happen on everything she might have exclusive judges. Does me he's gonna pick any them once he's?
I think, he's a free man at that point, but Trump clearly is not considers himself a free man and has been extremely faithful to
promise to his coalition on judges. This was a fantastic pick, then have Mitch Mcconnell, whose focused on this right from beginnings first meeting with with trumpet Trump Tower or a conversation when Trump on our neighbours are found, but emphasised how important it was to focus on these judges. Others can a pump them through. I was was recommending, bear it to Trump for this
they can see was absolutely stalwart right from the beginning, as as soon as with better Ginsburg passed away thing, we're doing this and wrote a letter to his members, explaining that the difference and that the context and the president's
between twenty sixteen m. This time round close to the election and to their credit Senate Republicans was it
like a neuron thing for it for a while there, but put pretty quickly, fell into law
and most of all credit to recovery bear just done a tremendous person, a tremendous jurists, just a plus quality and blue every minute of those confirmation hearings. So he had the polling. You know gallop
you want percent supported, confirming her there's a New York Times for the head of plurality in favour of confirming her in the same year. Times call even had a plurality in favour of the timing of the velvet saying that Turkey should be confirmed here before the
action and in when you say fifty one percent, that's nothing! It's not against forty nine percent right! It's like
One percent approve, and only thirty three percent oppose or something like that. Thirty seven percent
I think this is actually sign of hope. Ok, it's every sign of hope. I think a huge number of people,
after the break Cavanaugh drama?
We weren't shall shock right, and they basically is forward. Looking good
Forward Supreme Court nominations are only going to get more crazy. You know right that back.
How always this was.
but like siege warfare
and this one didn't at all right a minute it.
and actually proceeded very smoothly, even close to
Pino and I think it in a way like no one a lot of
didn't anticipate how smoothly it would go, and I think that's why you saw these proposals floating around for some kind of compromise, where the seat goes unfilled.
For a little bit knew you
this its partly because one the cabinet hearing was so bad and then you
This background, defection of liberal elites from the constitution
order right when they say how are we gonna do core packing? We ve got to abolish the Senate and stay
What was important and what was revealed by their any call me Barrett confirmation so far
that that really is confined to the elite of the Democratic Party. That is something on the upper pages. It's something on twitter
bring it rockstar com, but it doesn't move democratic voters that court
you just doesn't move them the way it moves. Republicans
logic, donors, my daughters, but not their voters,
and I think that's exactly what you saw. Nancy policy come out ass. She did and in a wave of arrests
like at the end of this confirmation hearing
Because she she is in her she's a kind of responsibility for the party to raise money, and I don't want to see it
and clearly, readers of the New York Times want to see this stuff about how
Democrats have a mandate now to somehow pack the core pack, the Senate,
Change, the balance of power, they dont Democrats, only true Democrat,
large are interested in it and it turns out the door
doing the normal duties of office, Donald Trump, filling nominating
to fill vacancy and the Senate voting to confirm whether or not voting-
people approve of it. It's it's like that simple
in. Actually it's a sign of hope. It's a sign that there's a part of our constitutional can function. Normally that isn't totally and utterly warped by.
a partisan concerns and
Also should cosh, we should
washing ourselves to like it.
very likely the job I
or maybe some other democratic five years or email. Eight years is gonna, replace Justice, Alito Justice, Thomas and, let you know,
we should hope for in America where the here
things are, as generally,
placid as what we ve seen and where
the media hysteria kind of fades away. That's what we want that in fact that what the consumer
would have judicial movement,
has been about this about me
the court is like me
Ports normal again.
and what we saw a sign of normality. I think at
a huge Elmer. That, though, is just the calculation that they could try to take her down and that they could try to take down by by going after the people of praise.
betraying her as a religious fanatic accused her
Are people around Europe trying to hide the ball on this which might have drawn blood, but still the chances of stocks
her woodman, very slam and the chances of some sort of backlash disturbing the equilibrium of the presidential election would have been quite high. Instead, they just went
all inoffensive easier
and I M not sure in different
obsessive this been a year ago, actually ironic, they might be more heated and for its heads than it was a couple we will find the election. I think
Point you make rich about down, as carrying in concert with Michael's point about them
being an imbalance between Democrats and Republicans. Voters as to how much they care about the call is an important one,
and I think in this area it is an example of where having an issue that is primarily cared about,
I don't really hurts the Democratic Party Republicans care about this issue.
That leads to Ms Mckenna prioritizing it. But what does that look like? Well, it looks like fairly respectful here.
This autumn Iron Kagan, followed by Hardball when he was in a position to try to reshape the judiciary. Mitch has a conveyor belt approach to it. He blocked the replacement of antonyms glare and two thousand sixteen and he pushed through the replacement of Ruth Beta Ginsburg. Now we can debate whether Republicans lied between two thousand sixteen and twenty twenty. Certainly some of them did but everything that the report.
instead on judges in the last eight or ten years was constitutional and within the norm. The donor focus on the court has led
Democrats to become more and more hysterical on this question and to say ridiculous things in last night that Brian Fallon led group, which is a front for donors.
Started. Talking about impeaching, I'm becoming baron machinery been sought in a couple of men.
come on Harris said recently before she was running for president, that we should look at impeaching
This Cavanaugh. This is an idea that others with Warren has mentioned. We now have talk about blowing up
we got expanding it. Refusing to accept judicial review, changing the way that the lower courts work stripping, jurisdiction
Margaret was an example of bad behaviour led by extremism that
not being driven organically from your voting base. But from some
and I think when it comes to the court, that imbalance really does her Democrats. Soap, Michael,
I think Troy nail this from the beginning, which is that
the reasons there were some folk suggesting some sort of deal. She never thought makes sense to wait and wait to lose the election quite possibly and then a lame duck session. You have all this leverage and cut a deal where they agree not to pack the cord and in exchange for leaving the seed open, is
there, never gonna packed the court of in attacking the court need such a gargantuan task
ask it has to be something your committee before the election to build a coalition in in favour of it. Instead, Joe Biden has been just squarely at best and and landed on this court Reform Commission, which, unless it's it's stacked with wild eyed folks from the Brian Fallon Camp, I wouldn't recommend core packing of its actual. He is as serious and illegitimate people but invest
Whenever the commission comes back and a prospective Biden presidency can be kind down the line that there will be a vicious fights over. Something else is kept
presumably we'll be depleted,
mid term election wood, where the loom and there's no way is gonna pick up in these circumstances and twelve
he months. Em said earlier. By the way, now I'm packing the court
packing is not going to happen. The inner if it were
You would have seen Biden embrace it.
Clear. I think from the beginning that one
Four publicans determine they were going to proceed with hearing hearings for
from Nominee Amy Comederit. You saw
Dick Durban and other democratic senators, basically league it out to the media that the conference, the cites conference, couldn't unite on this. For Democrats,
and then Biden basically head on the issue for me
Ex he doesn't want to disappoint donors. He doesn't need you, never even told them. No,
he left himself open to the charge of use for core packing for weeks and then
he found a way to kind of say without
and he was against it or for it to bury it with. This commission is not going to work, it's not appealing, and, of course there is, you know what will
Even if the Democrats escalated to court packing the
next step is nullification
or secession right or just treating
print court rulings. As a dead letter I mean you, could you
and judicial review. I mean you'd, be ending a period of a man,
history from Marbury.
Madison too? Now that's enough,
extraordinary revolutionary step. Arguably,
I don't know- maybe I don't know charlie- would before that. If this feat referred
Can it be that much of an list but
I think there is any attention between judicial review and original ism, but the right.
Think so either, but it just anyway. It is a fringe argument. In any case, I dont think
going to happen. It doesn't matter as much to Democrats mean vague and I think it's problem
conservative, see the court as
Alas, defence against liberal cultural hegemony.
and liberal, see
I can rely on a kind of background sensible.
damn that the major corporations and institutions that universities
All on your side in the court is a nice thing to have and they want
and clearly elite liberals, you know really wanted they really feel
exercised, win any leads.
Shushan isn't fully on board with their agenda, but issues
The politics aren't fearful for wrecking the system. I would just add that at some point someone is,
to sit down with the democratic path,
tea and reminded that it probably has more to lose from the dissolution of meaningful judicial review than the Republican Party. Does this to advantage
is to having the imprimatur of the Supreme Court. The first one is, you can make things up and pretend that that constitutionally mandated
ocean is a good example, is rosy weight and above fell with same sex. Marriage,
The other is to rubber stamp. What the legislature does? It's not, of course, the case that Republicans have no interest in the imprimatur of the Supreme Court, especially when it comes to
the upholding the constitution, as it is written when that alliance, with conservative policy preferences? Republicans like having the court on their side but d,
The crass really need it to be listened to, because if it's not,
then the entire legal project of as the last hundred years goes out of the window, and I'm just waiting for that law prefer
thorough legal luminary to sit down with checks. You
and Dick Devon and say you know that if you pack, the court and people, don't believe any more that the decision.
ah legitimate, or they think that it's only acquiescing with congresses overstepped because its
and threatened you realize that will hurt you write, it doesn't seem to have happened.
but it will soon.
The extra question to you, I think we all agree that we don't think fight. Select is actually gonna, try to pact court, but will court
hacking be a long term agenda item for the progressive movement or
oh just a function of this moment. It's just that
function of this moment. I think
I think there is a larger.
Democrats for some kind of
in our system of government with fewer checks with fewer
demands for kind of white light. Calhoun called
They would rather have you know that
elementary dictatorship style that is common to like the UK and other
earlier today. They would like that in theory, but I think Charlie's right that actually
If the m
someone should sit down with them and explain that
judicial review dies. If you kill the Supreme Court, you'll have to make the art
you met. You you'll have to cease a generation, long project of arguing that your political doctrines, our human rights, that should be
incorporated into the background of the law and not subject to democratic input and
think it should be came over that point, ten,
Aggressive ism is an old funding
Lena led project and needs a court intact to survive.
Detroit Long term agenda, item or ephemeral. What the law
term agenda item ass, it was under Woodrow Wilson, is to discredit and eventually abolish the constitution.
They'll be some elements of the constitution that would survive in a progressive America, but big.
Two majority Marian elements, the federalist elements would or guy at the moment, one of the ways the progressives believe that they can advance the cause of discrediting and abolishing the constitution.
is to pack the court's: that's how they would get around the constitution as it is written, but I think it's entirely contingent and if God forbid, Clarence Thomas in
Justice, a liter died tomorrow and Joe Biden replace their both of them with with his preferred judges did. This would disappear.
I am certain that this is really just the latest expression of distaste. What I would call the Fox project, which is that at any given point, you just complain about the bit
the constitution that are causing your side trouble and right now it's it's that the Supreme Court, s presence.
constitute that that's not a long term project, that's a reaction as a tactic inside
It is, however, of a much broader go reactors Fritz
the longest time that the goal of subverting the constitution was being served. Just just fine by a Supreme court with nine justice
no one complaint about midway their liking right, so
I'm gonna say it's not going to go away, but it's mostly
moral and, if you're not gonna, do it in the buttons First term. What what do you do? You know he could he could? There could be a Republican elected twenty twenty four, and can we favour a core packing then? So I see it.
Mostly a momentary thing with that. Let's hear from our second sponsored this week, the Manhattan,
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Out so envy deals had a few other things before we go. You been listening to Sarah Rockets,
Sarawak, kins, Isn, T grassy country music, so
and you know I've just been
out me are doing work. Spare work on weekends is set him in previous broadcasts and
headphones in any kind of have her, I'm twenty twelve hours,
Son midnight son in my are heavy road.
asian these days just injustice.
You're into that kind of music check? Her up- and
earlier for you all, has been playing video games
brother in law gave the kids and tenders switch and first off, I am astonished at how good at it my four year old is almost envious to be honest with you, but I am also impressed by how quickly he grasped
computers of all sorts, so the two year old, wants to play.
Facing game with my for Europe. But of course, the two year old is just not good enough, doesn't grasp. It is impressive right buttons.
so it's not very much fun for the four year old. So my four year old has worked out that if he scroll down to the bottom
He can change the second player in the game to the computer then hand
the control of the two year old, who will believe that he's playing, but isn't so that the four year old can
Enjoy himself without having the two year old wine at him, it's MAC
evaluation and a little bit dishonest, but I've
at least that one of the present scale they weren't you dont, want his own. I didn't have to show him. He didn't even see me. Do you just worked out? How to do is for how
so I love old days, boss parts is there's just so charming.
an interesting and in many cases, beautiful so on my favorite twitter feeds- is lost ballpark before Twitter added the bookmark feature in you had like things to be other, go back in
and look at them and occasional like things I wanted to go back to, and then I go to my my likes on my my twitter feed additives
like nine old ballpark photos and then this one article that they wanted to go back and and read us as quite take
With this, sir, further that came up are from our spot box. Just this morning, I believe of crossly feel do the reds or old ballpark that close down in nineteen seventy, but it's a picture of the fanciful is just as this black aside, this green painted brick fence, and it has the ground rules painted
to the wall, batted ball, hitting warm fly to write of white line and that this these letters appear to the right of white line homerun and just beyond the fence you see and an old brick building, maybe like warehouses,
You have a sign for railroad equipment. You have a cook core sign have assigned for gas refrigerators.
So am I a great wistful nostalgic regrets when when'll when I'm looking
sort of photos is that I miss these kind of a ball park.
Actually some amazing photos of crossly field. Is
go on and on about this
You'll see the beginning of the big red machine Universe, Dominic Cincinnati, Reds, reds team was one thousand nine hundred and seventy six, these guys, like PETE rose. You associate that that team with it the terrible new ballpark astroturf ballpark they they played in most of their time that they are great, but one thousand nine hundred and seventy there. That was the beginning of that dynasty and you'll, see PETE Rose,
the guy's at crossly, feel this combination anyway. So anybody it's that time in the pond. Casper editors picks. What's your big men pic is peace by Fred Bower that women.
as we record on the website, the tension,
Joe binds immigration platform.
And for better times about you know how the immigration issues can have been suppressed throughout
damn. He outlines of at least one
nominally committed to which this kind of doubling down on,
a very system of immigration and likely its desolate air nature that brought trumped power in the first place, him so sharply observed peace,
Charlie you're, that mine is light. I did not read the entire
election issue of the magazine. Until this morning I read the yes, no, maybe pieces. I read some of the others, but I'd missed down maclaughlan peace, encouraging people
to accept the election results which, as usual, is an historical tour de force.
is grounded in all sorts of excellent principles. I could write a book about this by Democrats and saw I'm late to discuss this was published three weeks ago, but I thought it was worth praising. Anyhow, there was tremendous pace and
please informed. My pick is a peace and the forthcoming issue at the back page com
happy warrior by Carl Smith and eat he up by
he's been thinking about the apocalypse lately and say: look going online and looking at survival goods and it's a great com on hipster survival goods. In a way you have your your backpack with Canada, the fancy it
r r t buy goods that can imagine that would at least get you through like a day in the woods, but just classic case
Smith said that the next time the three of us will talk in this part will probably be the day after the election. I would say I would say the next time we talk will know the result, but we might not neither
it'll probably talking Wednesday morning, and who knows
was close will be waiting on the accounting for fur
when you made some other states, but that's it for us for now
even listening to a national you podcasting, you re, broadcast retransmission account this game without the express written permission and naturally magazine a strictly prohibited. As podcast has been
this by the end comparable surgery and makes a sound better than we deserve. Think Charlie. Thank you, Michael thanks to black rifle coffee, company and hat institute.
they especially to all of you for listening. We are the editors and we'll see you
Transcript generated on 2020-11-01.