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Maxine waters fishes in troubled waters, Joe Biden, flip lapse and refugees and George W Bush scolds republic. And on immigration will discuss all this and more Agnes Edition of the air. Yours, I'm rich Larry, I'm joined, is always by the right. Honourable Charles See W Cook Jim Gary, the sage of authenticity, Woods and Alexandra Zan, distinctness you're listening to a national you podcast, responsive this week are Babble American household trustees and alumni and fast growing trees, dot com more about all those in due symbolises podcast. I'm not sure you doubt comical indirectly on the corner, where have you, but it'd be easier for you and better for us. If you made this part of your feed at angel streaming, service is out there from Spotify to Itunes. If you like what you hear here, please consider giving us a glowing five star review on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget said anything so then,

clean waters showed up in Brooklyn setter. The other night broke the curve You didn't interview on the street where she was asked. What would happen if the verdict and shove and trial didn't go the right way by her lights and that by the way is not if she she doesn't, will not settle for a mere manslaughter conviction. She wants murder and says it is actually murder in the first degree, as far as she is concerned, but an aspect of the question she said, people have stay out on the streets and get even more Fantasia, nor notable given that people have already been throwing objects at the police and rioting. What you make it. You know it actually isn't super surprising and I had a bit of deja vu when I saw this news because I remember maybe two or three years ago, Maxine Waters came Your fire was facing some heat for similar comments where she said anyone whose

its tramper any republic inner, or something like that. I remember the exact comments dessert to be harassed in public or that progressive leftwing people should confront any such public figure they see in person and make an impact wasn't I'm dead in a restaurant. In this sort of thing in the day they ve rightly open themselves up to be a target by supporting, or by being on the right. So the idea that say something like this is not especially surprising, but it is obviously very foolish, not least because it's a silly say, but even if she does want the verdict

she she says she wants she's jeopardized by making a comment like that, as several peoples, ably pointed out on a now show you so Jim. If there's anything you think everyone of good faith on both sides will agree on is just violence is unacceptable. It is wrong on every single well, both morally wrong. It does and that's practical damage in this case to the communities that are targeted, but you had people out there saint same people who were rightly extreme, Molly, outraged by the capital riot, making excuses and trying to explain away what water said. Dear. I don't look, they bits. It was interesting this morning the lead item on CNN was, in our waters. Continents comments: you know, expose GNP hypocrisy on incendiary rhetoric or something like that

who's gonna ludicrous, because the CNN peace was its own form of hypocrisy by saying Auschwitz anyway, but boxing water set one up What Republican said back in January sex? Ok, what have you they're both wrong Today's warnings, all I went through like look. This must more listeners are probably very familiar with Maxie waters and now this resolution years. This is what she does go back to find comments about, going back to the early riots and ninety ninety two: Where she really, you know, was appalling to try to get her to criticise the writers and and looters backed energy, insist about us, his mother, stealing baby milk and died members for their children like that now I am too old that there are other things, a Fox news producer who said that there were democratic gap, a little were very upset this I am seeing a public statements, but apparently the privately very upset with Maxine waters. I almost I can very easily blame Maxie Waters, but I do think what you gonna packaging, fellow ok, to travel to Minnesota.

and wait in and basically say: no, we should get more confrontational but deal if they don't give us the verdict. We want like why we should not think that was ok when she has had had no real major pushed back against anything else. These efforts, in her very very long political career in elected ninety, ninety, in choosing the healthiest legislature drawback like Nixon, seventy six, so I'm sure there's a certain part of Maxie waters and sharp brightening up, because this just never had to start a reaction. Anything she said she's always able to get away with it because she's Maxie Waters and she represents a district where she always wins. I think, still be adjusted. Oh, seventy one percent is the most she'd lost by so she's just untouchable. She go, there's no consequences Rennie. until now, where the judge said yesterday, you know this: How could a rule mistrial based on this, but some judging the future on appeal may say: yeah, Congressman Constitution says you not be more confrontational and basically implies that the budgetary doesn't come back with full guilty verdict.

we're gonna, get the towns get burned to the ground, like that, w some judge I see that as a jury, intimidation and declare a mistrial based on it she may have jeopardized the prosecution of the most infamous. But America right now and it totally we'd never should have come to this lively nagging feeling if somebody had said to maximum waters earlier, not a Republican had said. Hey, you shouldn't say that maybe she wouldn't, I felt so it oh the impulse to just blurred out the first thing, the pop door, mind, which he was speaking earlier this week to accede, This is, I believe, an heresies. I don't think she's going to change the way she behaved and has behave now, even if members of her own party tell her to. I think that both parts of this grotesque- I do not like it when officials, specially federal officials way

on trials. I understand what people mean when they say the right outcome. I dont think it is incumbent upon american citizens, whether they are elected officials or not to always be neutral, I think it was reasonable, for example, to hope the Timothy Mcveigh be convicted. But I still am uncomfortable with such talk because. Trials are not always limited to simple moral questions. and when you say we need the right outcome again. Leaving aside the second part of this, which is the threat of violence, whether implicit or not You are essentially

undermining the system that we have developed, which is imperfect, but which is better than all the others. Maxine Waters is suggesting that just This is an outcome in this case rather than a process, and that is misleading at best and dangerous. It worse. The question here is not whether what happened was good or bad and in some sense the question is not whether the cop who did it is good or bad The question is whether there is sufficient evidence to tie that cop who is innocent before proven guilty to the crime for which he has

Been charged so ass, a general rule, I would quite like it if public figures backed off a little and and didn't use preemptive language, but to tie the outcome to violence is unconscionable now. I dont think that Maxine what is violated any laws I wouldn't want to be arrested. I am happy with the protections that this constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, in Brandenburg FEAR, higher accords to people commenting ass. She did but I do think it was a moral ass. Chance of no justice. No peace, which is what waters was essentially waving, had that's a threat that is essentially a preemption and

He should but doesn't know better whether she ends up materially affecting this trial She helps currency, a mistrial whether she advantages the defence in an appeals process I dont know, but ass a rule, I think, will be better off. As a country of our politicians said, this trial is not complete. the jury has not reached a decision and it would be inappropriate for me to comment on it at this time. Yet no justice, no peace. It is really a hideous slogan but has just been except. It is just like wallpaper now, demonstrations like that and then we actually had an interesting study. Having read it myself just read: write about it, rubber ruin and others have written about it.

but a study that shows that this was prior to the George would protest, but that bill, I'm cities, it had be a big deal. I'm protests saw a decline and police involved shootings which, if you believe that finding a kind of extrapolate from it would read would have reduced over a period of years. Please Bob fatalities by about three hundred but, on the other hand, saw an increase in violent crime and murders that again, if you extrapolate would come out a thousand six thousand increased murders around the count hurry and with clearly seen again, I can't vouch for that. Every specificity every particular the study butter, brow, the course with well be seen, and this suggested a deal. No one should want to take at the end of you're having more people shot and killed, ran lesson

one thinks it's one of the many things that so frustrating about that. I think the tactics of the black lives matter movement. We ve seen over the last year. This is this obvious insistence, Focusing on this one social problem I think that is quite overblown and how they frame it. Of course, we should all want an end to legal forms of peace. sounds that do exist, but there is not some exists on the scale they claim it does. These cases are often far more complicated. then be our eminent supporters will allow for and the idea that the solution is to get rid of the police entirely, which would lead to all sorts of other forms of violence and that these violent protesters are rioters are somehow acceptable or an appropriate response to racially invented violence, it make any sense right if you care about violence against black people or people, new non white people from the police. Why don't? They I'm demonstrators care about the violence of day inflict on others, and there are not opposed to violence in itself. Clearly, their post, this one particular

form of violence that they claim as farmers I want that it is, and they use it as a pretext to the violent oftentimes and to try and settled scores and white businesses on fire and all other sorts of things at its very difficult that we might agree with a sort of a little of what they say here and there in and, of course, with the idea that criticism is wrong and racially motivated killing is wrong at their tactics. I think Very much undermine their claims that they they want peace to try. What did you make of the broken centre? Shooting is another case. This really is a start, and almost always, and since you have someone resisting arrest or the directives of the cops and think spiral down, something horrible happens in this case this poor twenty, What kinda stopped heat? He has some outstanding warrant. They they get him outside the car. There cuffing him. You know the kids

Tat had just waited thirty more seconds, you haven't coughed and that that would be the end of it, but for whatever reason, Heath are those gets back in the seed and then the the cop turns out to be a veteran. I just astonishing that she would make this mistake having twenty one years of service whatever it is, thanks, she's taken out her taser yells to let the other cops. Now and a clear out that she's gonna take the guy, pulled the trigger it's gone and says: oh, my god. I shot him. I think there s a society. We have an obligation to try to limit as far as is possible, the circumstances in which people arrested? And that doesn't mean getting rid of all the laws far from it? But I think starting position Will- to review any laws that we have and ask whether written

necessary to whether it is worth potentially leading to violence. I think that we ought to Encourage people who are arrested not to resist wanting to resist in a tyranny. It's another thing to resist any free country, not a perfect, contributed free country, because what you saw really hair was a a comedy of errors. I knew you saw him, four things go wrong. That could have gone wrong. It was it a perfect. storm as Alexander says there is this. This claim sometimes made implicitly sometimes made explicitly that police officers are

hunting down young black men. It's just not true adds its not borne out by the statistics. It's not borne out by the it is, but it is true that young black man, I'll pull over a great deal more than proportionately anyway, that than others and. what you have here ultimately, is a mistake. Terrible mistake, a mistake that took someone's life Can't be undone, that was Unusual, but that was the product of the situation in which the the cop fantasy So I know I don't know what the answers I hear and an is no real answer to the specifics. But that the the ultimate aim, has got to be too to try.

in the beginning to limit and de escalate these these situations, because, if you don't in a gun that someone in the first place you, you can't shoot them, and I think that's all how we can we reduce these, because I. I believe that it was intentional. I dont believe there was any malice. I think we just have far too many circumstances in which this sort of situation arises. Sir Jim Gary double barrelled exit question first to you, and I should note for our listeners were recording early Tuesday afternoon. So forgive us if this is overtaken by an actual v, and the children trial, but the two questions to you, Jim, are one: do you think Chauvelin will get convicted?

on one of these three charges to murder charges and one man sort our charge and to do you think they'll be violence in the streets after whatever the jury sites I think you'll definitely get convicted of at least one I think actually bs. in which areas most likely look. I wasn't following this is closely asean, The parties of the world, but it sounds like, fusion laid out, but he's got the ascent ah would not be supplies in the slightest if the jury came back and convicted and all three council you have that scenario. to pass having riding would be fairly mild living. He probably even see sir, Abrasions amongst amongst african Americans, they ve gotten a raw deal from the police but Nothin's written in stone. So who knows, I think everyone tells us. What has it would really holding their breath is if, by some matter, the jury looks at this. Nope without legal DNA. Those counts-

Everyone sees as one of the worst case scenario unlikely in terms of likely rioting, looting, etc. I think it's it's like that convicted of at least one most likely manslaughter in my view, and I think you will see some, maybe not as drastic writing as a few word connected any. But I do there will be some amount of violence and protesting no matter what, especially if there is only one conviction or especially none joy. I think that he will be convicted of manslaughter. I am, I think there will be More muted than last time, but nevertheless real reaction to that end as much as I would like to imagine that people in positions of influence and authority will do everything they can to tempt down the violence. I think they will not

Sir, I agree then, surely I think he'll be convicted on manslaughter. I think the best case scenario for children is on jury. Somehow there there's a occur to you that just holds out. I don't think that's impossible if that happens all bets, are off you you'll see you sit parts EU cities burning to the ground, I agree, Charlie Inzana. Now, if you get a manslaughter conviction which Andy I'm watched him this trial, but it seems from the commentary and watched a clip here there, but it can take Andy's analysis to the bank and he think of manslaughter of conviction is is fully justified by the facts. But even if you get that you're going to have some writing, which is completely disgraceful, so, let's hope for the best in with that pause here from our first sponsor this week, battle

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dot com and use promo code editors, that's be a baby. He l dot com code errors for an extra three months: free babble, language for life. So Jim Gary Joe Biden set some sort of land speed record for a flip flop, the other within hours he, the administration come out said. You know what we're going to keep this refugee camp cap that we inherited from the top administration at fifty thousand a year the air sea and others were reacted with without rage and then with three or four where's layers yeah, you know what we're gonna be announcing a new higher cap at a couple weeks. What do you mean What would you say, land speed record their rich? I thought you were making a reference to Joe Biden prediction that with just enough investment in infrastructure

someday. We would have planes that imply twenty thousand miles an hour. It should be like ten times faster than the as our seventy one blackbird the fastest explained the temperature with created, so oh, I found this were even more frustrating than usual rich, because I had written a quarter post on this and I kept having to updated on what the bite administrations position was because it kept on changing and the fact that you know the way the best make characterize it, because I must keep in mind, is raising the cap on refugees is the sort of things from which entirely in the hands of the executive branch. He doesn't need permission from Congress. He doesn't need com, Mr Pass. A bill backward troubled, drab reduced at a whole. Bunch of people got my goodness. The president should have this done authority wealth. The door swings both ways and present drug impressive, It has had the authority and he announced it was gonna. Do in January, then a funny thing happened, a m. I suppose the boy forth. Let us never got around it. Do it it's the executive order, usually with

denounces and executive order. You get the signature on that thing: new, maybe a week. We are suddenly today's go by, and nothing has happened on a whole bunch of books who wanted to see the calf raised on refugees. We should put up his reduce last year, primarily as result of covert. Ninety was not part of trumps. You know logically Zena public policies, or something like that, make me on what they earn. A decent number would never directly in front of me in twenty nineteen goes down we, twenty workers, immigration and refugee advocates. L, my business is far too low by probably going to raise. It then. Never really gets around to it, and it's not one of those things. Written complain about republican obstructionism, something so entitled. Like my those. Why is Joe Biden blocking Joe Biden from raising the refugee camp and for a couple of days you have is almost comical circumstance with gentle Saki would have to be asked itself

what's he gonna raising ones that executive order from an edge you just dance around that ensures that one point another such you circle back on that, but you never did and so finally, coming about my conclusion, this been done. Joe Biden. He promises a lot of things on either. Forget Surrey doesn't really think through about the consequences of keeping that promise at one point the afternoon. This endeavouring to keep it a fifteen fourteen thousand and that set off a fire, strong criticism from these refugee groups and a lot of democratic captain bill, and then jobs argue about the mediators Theo that Emily Le Teller asked never mind. We are in fact raising it they're gonna razor too. I think that one game sixty two thousand five hundred southern taken

you need action that contribute as much as they can for the remainder of this year by fiscal. By made a team of it. It is a classic. It's up to you flip flop. Fluttered people put out you. These people use the term flip lop when just a guy changes position at a flip. Lop really should mean you change it. Then you switch to a different position than you switch back again, which is what Biden did in this circumstance. I'm tired of hearing We are all twenty one. We were told bottoms ready from day. One shouldn't have he's gonna mistakes in a well oiled machine of administration, naturally think fifteen thousand for refugee camp. It is too low. I think what what pine initially talk about, where you type one hundred twenty five thousand a year. I think that's too high, but I think it in the context of what's going on at the border, where that there retreating, treating these migrants as refugees, even though their not. Why would you need more refugees? One can be hundreds of thousands coming in before all said and done.

This year, but then this is just another indication that we talked about it before that Joe Biden, who ran as a moderate and loosened his sir totally and and what he was saying and and debates speeches and in interviews has been completely. beholden to left now, there's there's a limit to how much you can do is mostly been spending and the other extravagant stuff. That's big guinea road come on line now is gonna be impossible to get through the Senate, but It is just an indication that they got a minor. They got him on a leash and he's been pretty media. I think this is the best example. Perhaps we ve seen yet of burdens. Administration is essentially a kind of empty seat, presidency for that a progressive wing of the party he

manage to get himself into office by saying he's, gonna be this unity president, and at no point thus far has governed like one and in fact quite the opposite. said, and when you see- and in this case in particular wherever he might have an inkling of warning be moderate on something we're acknowledging a non radical, not radically progressives position on a policy matter. He immediately walked back as soon as its met with any kind of unhappiness or challenge from the left wing of the party. I dont believe for a second chance he's line that there is confusion and that's why you know people misunderstood what binds had no. He said what he said. He said they weren't raising the cap's that was, you know a fact that was reported on and then I want to go back for it and so now they're trying to pretend that it wasn't a real decision somehow and that people were dressed confused and they weren't clear enough and in fact they are going to raise the refugee camps right. So I think

very obviously very transparent, walk back of something that they thought. Maybe they could be more moderate on or you know not cave in, to the left on and they didn't get it. it was ended. So he immediately did what the left wing of the party wanted, and I think that most likely when he's gonna do on every issue, because that's what he's done on every issue since he had asked his candidacy, you done it on hide amendment. He turned on stimulus doors. Essentially, the covered relief was a democratic spending, though undercover in his infrastructure go is going to be the same thing. All of this is just you know, progressive some cloaked as lottery, and- and I don't think anyone is really buying it- and another notable part of his statement on the refugee camp. It as he let slip. That's there's a crisis at at the border, which judge Saki did the same thing couple weeks ago, obvious it's really hard. When you are experiencing a crisis at not not to occasionally let slip, that is, it is it

this budget that Saki tried to walk this one back as well saying that what really matters is that there is a crisis in the northern triangle, which is why all these people are coming to the? U S, but not a crisis, loves. He didn't say, crisis in the northern triangle. There he said crisis on the border was a gobbled statement, but that's true of everything Joe Biden says we have to Residents in a row talk as if their words have been pushed both ways through Google translate She also said that he may have said that it was a crisis, but that's not the administrations position which is interesting, given that he is in charge of the administration. This is another growing tendency with this precedent, which we saw it again today,. I think, on the refugee question, it's important for us to acknowledge that the guidance ministration lighter there.

news stories for a couple of days highlighting the debate that has been conducted in the White House, noting that the president was nervous about the objects of increasing refugee limits, while the crisis on the border continue? Is and suggesting that Biden was aware that this is a real weakness for him. It is look at the polling. Twenty seven percent of Hispanics approve of burdens, handling of the border. he is above water only with african american voters and then only just standing, fifty six percent and we Democrats, because fifty eight percent Everyone else thinks he's doing a terrible job on the border. Women, men. Republicans. Independence. College educated

it is Non college, educated voters. and he knows this and clearly had decided to hold back on increasing. The caps and then there was blow back flow back from some members of his party flow back in the newspapers blow back on twitter. And they change their mind, but instead of changing their mind, they said they'd never taken. The decision that they did indeed take in the first place, and in so doing they confused a lot of immigration report is at least the ones who honest enough say. So he said that's not actually how it works. The binding administration line was though this is just a preliminary decision, and what we need to do is come to our final decision, which will be forthcoming in a few days and that's not a real thing. There is

a final decision, you gonna, make it or you don't now. I have much more time for refugees than I do illegal immigrants Oh they're, not the same thing. I think that we do have a responsibility and duty even to take in people who will be killed or severely persecuted if they stay where they are. I dont, like we trendy definition offered. J, which applies to everyone. Now you there's about economy in your country, but is You are from a tyranny. If you're from a place has been levelled by an earthquake a member of a religious minority that will otherwise be hunted down. Shaw. This is and should be, a beacon of hope.

should be the shining city on the hill, but as adults, we have to accept that when you, el to maintain a system? You crowd out your ability to do good, If we spend money on absolutely everything, we will struggle. Spend it on the vitals. That's true of a budget in a household, it's true of the federal government, its true at state level as well, and if. you do not keep an eye on people who overstay their visas. If you allow people even encourage them to walk the border, if you start creating the impression that the United States, does not have borders, then you are going to make it more difficult to accept refuge

you're gonna make it more difficult bureaucratically because you will be up against in flux, you're going to make it more difficult politically. because people who would otherwise have been far more ready. To say shore, you're in Somalia come in are going to say, will hold on a minute. Look at what I'm saying on the border or, frankly, look over I'm seeing in my town with limited jobs, curve, crisis continuing and in some cases, a lot of people who cannot and works at the president. Lied about this. His team lied about this, but I think outside of that People who actually care about american refugee policy should be annoyed,

by the hand, waving that progressive stew here, because it makes it more difficult to find our ties and fulfil when I genuinely do think is a responsibility so then work late. This morning we are sad Biden come out and endorse DC statehood, transparent attempt, jested to get to Democrats to Morgan public sectors for evermore. Would you make of it? And I think this is another issue where you're seeing button make the calculation or I guessed it- accept that he is really making all these decisions himself, but I think he's may the calculation. Look, I'm going to have a problem with the left wing party, if I don't say behind us all sorts of things, and he followed these action items is not the person responsible for making it happen, and so maybe you think

as I can say for this or that that anyone actually happened. So we won't suffer the blow back of some of these more radical things actually get done, but I will still look like I'm. Supportive of the progressive agenda may be read about that, but I think right now democratic strategy. You know, maybe they think they are striking, while iron is hard work, just trying, two things at once and hoping I'll get some through. I can't a lot of these policies are going. Actually work against them because there I think they're pushing up a little bit too much green new deal decision, But these are not popular things with most Country or most Democrats. I have to thank them. is aware of that and just hoping it won't get to the point where it will cost them. Yes, that's a perfect Zimbabwe Zan to my ex question.

Get first, you Jim Geraghty. What in your mind, will hurt Democrats most and the twenty twenty minutes terms what they had done or what they ve tried to. Do you mean the twenty twenty two matters, what they ve tried to do because gonna stuff, galvanizes conservatives, it takes progressives when they dont have the votes to get it done, divides the party- and I think, generally independence are interested in this though they the further extremes of the democratic agenda either take up. I think that he is bit by bit blowing it. I think this week, maybe the last two weeks have demonstrated that you have a party that is talking about blowing up the Supreme Court, not just Biden with his commission, but Jerry

I'd like to chair the house. You District committee, outlay of marginal figure. You have Biden embracing the state heard movement for diesel, which is extremely unpopular in the country, are an hang down the pike ever reparations bill. They have a bill to abolish the electoral college. If gun control, this is not helping them and in enough Enough Biden used to notice, I gotta pithy text from a friend of mine who follows politics closely and he said job and became president, because he was aware that twitter is not real life and he's going to suffer in the mid terms, because he's forgotten that chance. Yeah. I think I'll probably be heard more by what is trying to do

because I'm not convinced they're sermon get a whole lot more actually done, but I do think trying dismay things at once: conservatives, alot of ammunition to say look at what these people want there not getting it through, but a few let them stand there. These sorts of things we get more of an. I think most people galvanised Republicans to come out and vote against it, and I think I am as gems it's not really where independence are so I'm begging you, animals, but also note that continent. He had a great point at a quarter post just a week or two ago about. We really don't know what the defining issue of the first half of the abundance term here is. That, though, is some crisis unforeseen that is took totally different from what he inherited from tromp, which was an economy hurting because a covert and covered itself, and

So here we have a number of these brewing potentially overseas, but I think trying to push the stuff that has no hope and just Hangs in the on sign on the extreme left wing. Nature of the parties agenda can only hurt them with that. Less pause here from our second sponsor this week. It's time to stop riding blank cheques, your armada and start giving wisely. The American Council of Trust is an alarmed I or a see tee. A shows how intelligent targeted giving can bring a much needed course. Correction to campus its clear their nations, colleges and universities are adrift cancer. Closer rapid study, western civilization in great books courses are all but gone. You can ring standards insanity back to camp ass, though a see tee aid programme, the fun for academic renewal helps donors craft carefully, targeted gifts

during impact last five years, the fund for academic or nor has devised over a hundred million dollars of college, giving they have the expertise, resources. You need for every stage of your philanthropy from initial planning to defending your terms and ten as a donor, your target plants be, can revitalize american higher education, give with a purpose guarantee that your next donation is a force for good visit, academic renewal, dot, org or email info academic renewal, dot org again, that's academic renewal, dot, org or email info at academic renewal, dot org to find out more. I can endorse this. This effort strongly enough is just so so frustrating when conservatives, for understandable reasons in a fine memories and institutional worldly, just unthinkingly,

give money to their alma mater wishing and unless you ve gone too few extraordinary places like wholesale probably taken over by the worst sort of progressives that are distorting the minds of young people, and I shall not. This is not a good use of your resources, so please check it. out so give clarity. We have George W Bush. Has re? Our has a book a kind of odd, but he's We all know we got into painting post I don't see, ran essay by Churchill about painting took it up as is not terrible. You know not is not great. It has a distinctive style, but he's come out a book of portraits of immigrants here in Amerika and rode in our bed and Washington Post expire

why he did this and explaining his vision for immigration reform and then an interview I believe in the Seychelles today there yesterday Mavis today said that the call the is isolationist, protectionist and, in certain respects, native IST. What he make them we're I read, and it must not be we call this is my address back your piece on homepage. Today, republican establishment, still and get it on immigration, seeing George W Bush come out again. Fills me. Two very contradictory, theatins first. First is actually got your nostalgia, Anna and you're missing, and I the man was, I think, he's a very decent man. I think he probably the most unfairly demonized president of my lifetime, I'm old enough to remember Reagan. I second call the greatest president, my lifetime, but I think the vast majority of these issues

his heart, was in the right place and you know can argue that a rapid conclusion. We wanted to bring freedom and a better future for the people of Iraq understand red meat, it thought the items you made. Mistakes even get every decision right, but I if you like, although chippy Jumpy Mick Hitler Halliburton in all of our model, to remember all that and I'm old enough to remember. When George W Bush was considered, the greatest pre eminent threat to the world has ever seen and comparable too fast. Dictators and all I can to stop ends with a guy who you know not only supported many cases, a path passes and support was reprogramming rich supply. Did the NATO alliance not a Republican presently, do that's the guy who did more to prevent AIDS and act like you just so many good things at George W Bush did that he didn't get credit for that really tough for me to get that that critical on yeah deficit got really bad There therefore mistakes that, just about still that instinctive reflexive defender of it.

that said everything alarm. Today's peace is a fair criticism that you write. George W Bush is not where the party the base the party is. I need a blithely hand: waves away the concerns people have over illegal immigration, and while there are certainly elements the republican Party that have been NATO best. This nutty talk about the Anglo Sir X and caucus whatever the hell they wanted to do with me, retail agreed in order to stop the R P, I remember during the twenty sixteen campaign and where His brother JEB Bush was running for president people were giving MRS Bush jobs, wife grief and they There's people on them We were near network portraying Herzenstube macabre in other monster from Mexico and stuff like that, you're not saying I disagree with job bushes balls. saying area. Is this just nodding having just eight mexican people that I think that I think there are people in the Republican Party You just got out eight Mexicans

potatoes and their view, points on this issue are heavily fuelled by that base prejudice. That said, it's not! drives all of the opposition, illegal immigration and illegal. I think it was a J Norton. La chauvinism, Grand was also Sonny boy. Was s perspective on illegal immigration? Is it well illegal, isn't it rob, isn't much of this country for several days We didn't act like it was illegal work. turn a blind eye to what is a matter of luck of whether a customs border patrol caught. You a lot of people in this country were perfectly comfortable with it illegal immigration because it provided cheap labour, there? You know landscape errors and hotel maids, and all these other three oppositions if it ended up becoming jobs. Premier, done by illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America.

Therefore, Mr President, I wish you could just like you know, get with the programme on this and cut at least talk to people, not talk down the people in this. That said, less local. I've got a lot of the stall to prejudge W Bush and I think he cut you. He represents a more the era of politics that I would love to sound out there I mean just reeks. ceremony in an earnestness Nigeria is so demonized any just. You went out of his way I'm not sure he ever maybe there's one or two exceptions you never criticising democrat by name. I am he just you didn't do it on principle. He he didn't read in the press and people with colonel laugh at him at this, was out as just another way that that he was an idiot, but he didn't want be worked up by it and it didn't want to be disturbed by it. They didn't want to shut, really Reggie? What's the worst case scenario for present red suppress all the time you have worked up about like what could happen come on

Just the fundamental modesty- and it is just come through these interviews in- I don't like necessarily what worries After all that these interviews is just a modest guy and had a view of the office. Is bigger than themselves the choice of what to make of the isolationist, protectionist native IST jar, Yes, my score scorecard would be that the parties not solution. It is, is more anti interventionist, interventionist and sceptical of overseas interventions than it was in the Bush years, obviously, but isolation, I don't think it's fair, I think protectionist goes too far. I think tromp was basically protectionist and the party is more protectionist, but I dont think protectionism defines a party in its entirety and then also from said things that are native us. There is no doubt about it and that their there can't be that that nasty

amateur opposition to to immigration, but I also think that goes too far, but why do you think? I think that the Republican Party is a broad coalition and that the Trump years were the first of a lot of years in which one part of it was ascendant. We we should not be surprised by the existence of anti free traders within the republican coalition. They were there in. Early nineteen nineties, they found their champion in Patrick Buchanan. they were there and many of them rallied behind Ross, poorer.

They were there in the Reagan. Is Reagan was a free trader in general, but he was not perfect. Tommy an execution. Those people are also more sceptical of immigration. Dan is George W Bush or the Chamber of Commerce, and they took the reins for a while So I think what you're saying in part is a fight and argument that has been there within the Republican Party for quite a long time, and then your thing it felt it through the unique character that is Donald Trump. I have a great deal of time for the criticisms that George W Bush made. I do not like the protectionist instinct

and ass. Jim pointed out. There is a big difference between being an immigration hawk, which I am in many ways and being in eight August, and it's a distinction that has not always been observed and has not been well observed recently within the GNP. So my position here is that when you have a party that is as complex as the Republican Party you're going to see these sort of fight, where Disagree with George W Bush, or at least where I depart from him- is that one has as a president and as a politician of any sought to take into account what the party and its voters will stomach and irrespective of whether George Bush was right about immigration,

or trade. It is just undeniable that he tried to push a bill tried to push set of reforms in this area that his voters didn't want. It doesn't matter of these right, that's just that was just true the the Republican base and out of the time, a lot of unions that she was in a democratic party did not want the proposed immigration reform of was two thousand six seven. They made that clear fourteen that they didn't want it on political or ideological grounds, but they also didn't trust that it would be implemented properly many

them had memories whether they live through it all now of the Reagan. Amnesty which was superb. To be tied to enforcement measures, but never really was, and Many of them were also listening to Democrats who, with the exam sure of old School Union Democrats and the likes of Bernie Sanders. Who back then press conferences denouncing the idea started to talk up how they wouldn't have to worry too much about losing elections after a while. If demographic change continued ass, it did that, was the other side of this. By the way I got sometimes republican, say terrible things, but the idea that it is acceptable for Democrats Don't worry it soon. We will win elections because of inevitable democratic change, as Julian Castro actually did ass marketable this actually has as many books have, but that is

acceptable for the people you're talking about a notice. I think this is cherish, but anyhow George W Bush tried to to effect that change and his party didn't want it and I think we should be careful as a result to separate out the downsides to Donald Trump, the ugly side of much of trumpet M from these sincere disconnect that existed between George W Bush has a strong and well informed view of immigration and emigrants and conservative base. That has a different set of priorities when it comes to immigration and made them. yeah. You know, I think a lot has been covered you already, but I would just add: I agree a lot more, with the way that George W Bush talks about grants and the idea of immigration than I do

the way that Donald Trump or some of the more, I guess objectionable report, can politicians talk about the issue, but I I think what's wrong with the way that he puts it at least in this sort of this the shore. Form way that he he talked about in an interview is that he falls under the same trap that people the last often do urge scholars, less informed was thoughtful commentary on the subject do which is to talk as though, Immigrants are illegal immigrants and, if you oppose illegal, Emma vision it somehow, because you don't like the idea of immigrants coming to the? U S, or perhaps there is some kind of on board Native s philosophy behind it or even a racially motivated philosophy behind it and sometimes- There is, but I think for most Republicans for him Illegal immigration is an issue where this is an issue at all or for people who supported trumped because when he talked about immigration. It wasn't about negativism that wasn't about racially motivated wanting to keep non white people out of America or anything like that. It was because a lot of immigrants.

is illegal immigration or overstating visas. Are things like this? It is perfectly acceptable to want that sort of thing not happen. It doesn't mean that you don't support migrants at all, doesn't mean that you don't understand or appreciate about America. Then it's a place that all sorts of people want come and live present. All too often people criticise Republicans as if all of them who talk about immigration or want to limit immigration. Talk about it. The way Donald Trump did and and not simply not the case so Charlie exit question to you. Percentage yards down, trop at sea, point, sperience, revivals, reputation among elite opinion makers of the sort that George W Bush has and will be seen more reasonable and moderate. Then contemporary. Right, wingers, whoever they may be at that point, zero percent never gonna happen, one At present, it said dead. Certain voice both spoke zero percent at a hundred percent because

receives will have it your own way, as always they well they will say that Donald Trump was a terrible man and that he was indicative of everything was wrong with the Republican Party income every citizen, and also that whoever is the presidential candidate in twenty twenty four should be much more like him, because compared to him insert candidate here. that does this is how they always there, and they only stop when, when the person in question is dead, yeah. I grew up because we see them do the same thing with George Bush. You know that at one point, as you know it, why can't trompe more like version on other points like? Oh, I didn't Ellen Degenerous sit with George Bush in a baseball game or whenever they just how they want to have it both ways, but I I would put it closer to zero percent. Just because I think, while they. Use trump. in that way to to make A very Republicans look bad. I think the left will always

tromp enemies were always pay trump and will not be going to budge on that. Disability is too short answers. I grew during every said. The danger that if you see something in the other party that you like or that you think is good for the country or that you respect you should celebrate you should the banana boy. You should give them credit where you think they are due in part because having it makes politics will more interesting than less predictable and little less. You know endless rock museum robot, you know partisan battles, but also, I think, because Does your encouraging the traits and the trends and the other side. You want any of your idea of a good Republicans, you're, not being an old gentleman from experts for some feel your letter we do not agree with you about the party and I'll break out immediately Democrats, Sir I think it's basically, Europe sags. I think them they'll never fail to get around the way Trump conducted himself and especially January. Sixth,

right at the end of the mighty casually say, or even Donald Trump was willing to spend more on on X Y rosy, but it is never gonna have a show me sit down with a a morning host of other broadcast tv programme. I don't believe. So that is pause in here from our third sponsor this week, fast growing, trees, dot com, you probably upgraded few things run house after being stuck inside. It makes Now is the time the turn your yard into a paradise, with fast growing trees that car skip the Big Box Norton had a fast growing trees, dot com, the world's large,

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Go too fast, growing, trees, dot com, slash editors for fifteen percent off the fifty percent off at growing trees, dot, com, slash editors, fast, growing, trees, Dakar, Slash editors, please check it out. So I said a few other things before we go Zan. re reading, Agatha, Christy, Venice, as listeners might now I've been planning one. For the last few months- and it's finally approaching so- and everything to do, I decided turn my mind to lighter topics and reared a favorite murder mystery of mine, which is called the ABC murders and wanted Agatha Christianity and I read it for the first time brought about six years ago- and I I have this mind- I guess where I really enjoy mysteries, but I dont always remember after boy years who done it so I like to revisit them and enjoyed almost as if their brand new debate even join the these sprang flag football season,

Yes, but before I go any further about preserve Zan, perhaps driven mad by all the wedding plantings calculating. How could I get away with it? yeah don't flag springs like the policy that has begun again. Both my sons of wearing this year here in authenticity, woods there actually now, back to four days or weeks, a life is get back to normal. So it's not! Why it is vital that we get him out in interacting other kids again, but about play a fairly well be they both got. Their butts kick the first week in. That's however, what he's gonna figuring each other out, whose good at what who should we have quarterback all I can to stop my younger son, one by about a besetting spiffy due to succeed when their planted this age they try to spread amounts that you don't have all talk. It's on one team and all the fast kids, another team, but sometimes everything just gels for your son. While you can see the kids on the other side, trying to figure out which direction was supposed to run him. Ah, that's now,

happened my younger son, my Alderson satellite data around this topic, the coach- You have the issue, the coaches son, you know and whether using a play, favouritism for something like that, some coaches to go the opposite direction, they really ride their son because it ought to be seated playing favorites. Well, I think we're gonna need a family therapist from illness. Steam, but nonetheless, their competitive or have a father give you one of those like you know, Oakland. here's the night in the seventies, cavity guy I'll, always dramatic, always crazy, jury, gland bills, old, Houston, Oilers to prefer reference goes out. My language, little bit. I delivered a team chaos would never don't you think it's score on any play or they could give up everything on a reply. It, sir, but a lot of fun to watch declared to be out in pressure, and shall you recently enjoyed hopping around and about the house a dead one of our neighbours, rented about c house- and it really is- was a house is absolutely no

This had sliding inside and Larry, we could set a boxes inflatable and I know what they will even be cold, but invited us over and a first. I said no heart as us stand outside it and I'm just just watch the kids must have been looking at the label save it said Emily. About adults being allowed on ass. It was nothing stopping me ass. I thought why not just go stand on its own stood on it self, consciously chatting away with the other parents that maybe move a little bit up and down in two minutes later, I'm going down the slight headfirst entails off by one of the months. I've known you gotta get I'm feet. Vessel resort, hadn't been on one theme: SK. As last summer, when someone when I was much much younger, I bought a black eye, someone accidently, I think tax. It kicked me in the face and

I don't believe in been missing out. So I think that this might be a new chapter in another for the longest time. Every time I got the duck, doughnuts I've gotten a Boston cream Donna. No doubt it has been as high and my esteem as the Boston cream. I think I might be over Boston Cream done it at least for the first time I went to a duck Adonis, as I can only take place this time, an adequate Is this placed on it? really good. There there's classic that you're, not too much of a boss, a dream. On others. There's a lot of riches in there and it may be glazed. I think it may be a dream placed on it, but I had placed on face but I'll keep or keep listeners prized. I'm sure I wanted to say cited by the so with that. It's time for editors picks there. What's your back not take as a peace by Carl Smith and our past,

please God Anti Fascists misadventures and fortune telling we ve had a lot of great covered with a concluding it a good editorial on our problems with Anthony Factory, but Greece in particular, Kyle, highlights kind of I think, a lot of evidence that even the best medical professionals, those with a lot of experience, lot wisdom just often dont know what they're doing about and its because to be worried. I suppose, but it also helps explained while on people are so declared that the guidance we keep getting and how it so often revised give us your big well, obviously up rich earlier in the programme, but I always good. This is a good idea to have a back up, and while we are having this discussion, our colleague feel Klein put up a corner posts, it just sums up a great deal of what's going on in the White House over the last week headline as ever, Legion Sock, whose job is to pretend Joe Biden didn't say what everybody heard him say discussing several the examples we discussed on this podcast,

And that's that wraps up the week of the last couple of days- and you know gag echoing, Charlie's observation that apparently the Joe Biden position and the White House position, or only distant cousins, fell like this new standard, Jim that you ve created. If you just mention one of my pieces that that makes it defined, Do your address back so that he can go pick? Something else will do it. Cause. We too have a back up exactly why. Why would we encourage listeners to only check out one article? Charley was your pick. My pick is by David Hassan UNESCO. Fake news is real and it is a meditation on what now seems to have been a fake story that was nevertheless reported breathlessly last year about russian bounties being placed on America's it is an David really makes the key point here, which is that it really has got to the point which, if you say

I'm not sure that story is real. Your costs of sort of cats, poor fool would have It is that that is supposed to be driving. In this case the russian government, and that this is not journalism. He concludes by saying I yearn for mere media bias. This is corruption. I think he's right. I think that's what happened here. It was corruption and the moment that the story became at not just useless but actually seem to be a headache for President Biden. it was disappeared and all of the emotional blackmail that had attended it evaporated. So are all the pieces you pit

you guys pictor good, no doubt, but I just don't think this is a close call. Any Mccarthy's coverage of the Schuman trial has just been off the charts emissions early. I'm really paid attention The trials gonna feel and parks. They don't have to name to a national viewpoint. Gaston you re broadcast retransmission how this game? With that? almost all of it and, of course, is unfailingly intelligent. Highly informed and analytically, acute and and fair minded and adjust is just just an invaluable and no matter what the verdict is will be even more important. Coming days here this week, so that's it for us even listening to a national view. Podcasting you re broadcast retransmission countless game without express written permission of national magazine is strictly pro impetus. This park acid and produced by the incomparable sir, should he makes a sound better than we deserve Charlie. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, sad text, babble too.

See tee a at the fast growing trees, dot com and thanks especially to all before listening, really editors and we'll see you