Is Texas. Wretched democracy. What shrub be reinstated and is the lead theory racist will discuss all this and more on this edition of the editors I'm rich. Lowering them join is always by the right honourable Chelsea, W Cook and the siege of authenticity, Woods, Jim Garrison here listening to a national view, podcast our sponsors. This episode are babble and the bonds and group more about them and of course, if you listen, it's podcast unnatural. You d come clean directly in a corner. Where do I love you, but will be your view and better for us. You made as part of your feet that industry reserves is out there for Spotify to Itunes. If you like this podcast, please

consider giving us a glowing five star review on Itunes. If you dont, like this part cast. Please forget, I said, anything so, Jim Gary we got voting controversy, red dots? This feels like Georgia, all over again, Texas was set to pass various voting forms over the weekend. I guess was Friday night and house. Democrats in Texas said Nope out here they left the chamber denying Republicans a coup and blowing this debate up bigger than it was four and we hearing all the same cries of Jim grow and voter suppression what to make of it. Well, the first thing is you: look at what the bill actually does because, as with the Georgia one there are a lot of assertions that this is suppressing the vote, or you know, barring people from voting at its you know. The end of the month

Jim prototyping yeah bright little actual possessed of what the bill does. Ah, yes, he hurried up her prohibits temporary falling places in a tent or other movable structures there were designed for cars. No more drive through voting presuming. We don't have a pandemic going on in twenty twenty two or beyond. There really will be any need for these sorts of facilities for things like that, it does at times dictating when falling closes, pulling place that can be open to them. A second, you know requires a paper trail for votes. It requires those who are for what once you about by the other with its ability to provide specific grounds and whether eligible and it makes it a felony for a public official to solicit the submission of an application to vote by mail from a person that did not request an application that you think. That's because we may be active, dirty is paragraph in the bill. This way, all of this from the Fort Worth STAR Telegram, hardly ever doubt would be right. Wing is the best, rightly conspiracy. Now, probably the biggest bone of contention

Is that be restrictions on voting then set times were voting session Voting on Sunday can only begin after one p m. Some people say look. This is an effort to limit be sold to the poles efforts by african american churches, I guess I could see that, although some people question how many african american churches really get out before one p m on Sundays. Ah, I suppose if you're, really devious. If we gotta do this all than technically you're lying up against the book, games on Sunday, I guess that's awaited- still allows impossible. The law requires pulling places to be open for at least six hours and they're allowed to be opened in the minds of theoretically, you could have eight hours of early warning on Sunday that sounds like a really good way to restrict early boycotts if you're allowing for eight hours, pretty good and so the ideal, if you want to say you, think it's a bad idea all should be allowed to open before one on Sunday. I guess coworkers workers might want to go to church. Do

Coworkers might want to sleep weight on Sunday morning. Stupid. Fine, ok can have that argument. But it's not your problem to point out that ridiculous, so indicating that that racist Let us do what we go with this and, if you're saying wait a minute. The democratic state lawmakers leaped Texas, whereby heard that before. Well, yes, did happen back in two thousand three. He had also happened back into the house. one in the state of origin, when democratic law makers and State House left in ITALY was the state. Senator ah one by the name of keep Brown said. It was very appropriated with circumstances its fairness We in the states, then it would use all tools available to us in stages, similar boycott boycott, ah now fast border, twenty nineteen key brownish than the governor and she called Fred- devolve state police, on republican lawmakers, we're gonna walk out. We also the famous walk out in Wisconsin. was Indiana, that you're back in two thousand and eleven, I want to say amicable, other cases in Oregon since then

not surprise. You Reginald learn that everybody's view of whether it's ok to leave the state capital will leave the state in order to avoid having to vote, deny a quorum is all in almost all cases, depending on which parties doing it. People think it's perfectly ok with their side does it would have the other side is doing its stance. It's a dereliction of duty and people should be punished but yeah on pressing. Issues like that. As everyone is hypocritical but it was really stupid to touch the dead voting on the last Sunday before the election and theirs legislature yesterday, who said this the drafting era and aspires to be eleven, a m in a garden miss transcribed into two one p m, which is idiotic and Ngos to just how this was a rush, and I think Georgia, even though That's me anyway, was much more deliberate about how they they went about this and had its can best talent. In legislature on on top of this bill, and I wasn't

so the case now, excesses in Texas, which you like the rest of the provisions in the Sunday voting will also it'll be changed. Come back at this which they will weathers August her or later there they'll change that boy the rest of these things, like that, the paper trail on voting machines who can oppose what what's wrong with that that another The provision just like that live streaming vote counting I could say our I hear Republicans are driven by that paranoid lies Donald Trump to think. In addition, shenanigans are going on in vote counting, and it certainly true shall some of them. But what be wrong with this provision. Actually in Georgia when you had and that one fault in county counting centre. This idea that suitcases had been we'll, then because of a video clip that was misleading

that the whole thing was on video sake. It look at all eight hours and see exactly what happened. So is it a little bit like police body? Cams is just helpful to getting to the truth, and this is a provision that clearly wouldn't increase transparency and confidence in. In the system, so you might think text could got about this differently, their few provisions that could it should be done, differently and more carefully, as Jim says, There's no way. This is Jim Crow to point. No, that's ridiculous lie. I think it's always important to separate out the intend toward is deemed to be the intent from the tax. This is something that people such as self demand of judges, texture, restore region. This judges expected largely to ignore claims of intent and legislative debate too little more intention original ism. But it's more to do.

public meaning, and I think that, although it is entirely true that the Republican Party, has lost its mind on the question of the twenty twenty election, and although it is entirely true that far too many Republicans in reply. the converters, believe that the election stolen, although it was sullied when it was not We are still capable of evaluating words on a page in the words on the page in this town the spell ass with George Bell in Florida, which got less attention massively. Ah unobjectionable, with the one exception of the Sunday voting rule, which will be changed and where They genuinely made an error or whether they ve been ashamed into changing. It doesn't really matter. The final bell does not contain that provision than that Revision will not be law. The aim, it seems to me of these bills: ass exe

breast in the text, rather than as interpreted by conspiracy theories or political, upsetting. is to restore the status quo Ante in american election. To ensure that the changes that were made. Or to accommodate the pandemic are not permanent. and to restore the constitutionally mandatory, in my view, idea that voting rules are set by state legislatures and not by independent agencies, or at least if they are set by independent agencies, that those agencies are restricted to interpreting the statute and nothing else, of course, Democrats can, when pointing to those changes, say ah the act. This is being narrowed, but now

Two wat narrowed back to where it was the answer in most cases and the vast majority of the moral panic around this seems to me to be based upon forestry goes a little bit like this. The pandemic expanded access to the ballot box. Republicans wish to restore accessed its level pre pandemic because much of that system was either temp ready for a good reason, all sewed mistrust. Therefore they are technically restrict access. Therefore, we need a massive federal takeover of the election system and I don't think that Those at all. I think this is essentially hysteria, and I think that it is just as much a state in the case of taxes, as it was in, Georgia said

and the argument is being made here, is that so Texas Democrats have done their duty than they ve undertaken. This heroic act sues, stand at the bridge and and stop this voter suppression. measure in Texas and now it's over to national Democrats, you have to eliminate the filibuster and pass jar one as the only way to protect our democracy and there's a format this hypocrisy here too, because you have, it gets filibusters out this terrible to have a legislative measure. or majority have the ability to stop something that the majority of the votes do where its attacks That's exactly what Democrats did an about turn round a limit. buster an impasse. Is this bill that would bout, all these state laws duly passed by majorities in in these

states for for good reason and we're not talking about just what Texas George just What Texas is trying to do in these vote right deal. Laws have been passing in states for iter, me thirty years and they all be undone by each hour, one which would be a massive of federal takeover of the elections, Is it sprawling bill that has all sorts of dubious provision, some of which probably unconstitutional having to do with spending in speech around elections, but the there in a fever to to do this year, Euro? The short version of the Democrats argument is look. The rights of the legislative minority must always be respected, and they must have a way to stop the more the majority from two steam rolling. The opposition. unless we're the majority, and then it's ok, that's kind of their their viewpoint in in a nutshell, thought about this in the job earlier this week like given it

with the bureau is gonna have a legislative minority. So the question is how live minority is very often gonna do not want to do with legislative majority wants to do and then we're trying to block it. You know what they got off in a whether its closely can you know whether to close vision between the parties and intellectually chamber. Whether there is a you know, a near veto, proof majority and the questions gonna be how do you want that minority exercise their there? There leverage? Now you know that filibustered been around for a long time. Both parties have figured out a way to make it work for them when they want to how, for example, Democrats block police reform throughout twenty twenty was not great. They stop that that This raises TIM Scott from enacting police reform, and thank isn't the whole country better off, because that anyway, parties have used the filibuster and both parties Windsor. Already at the filibustered, the worst problem ever.

Having said that, I would very much prefer the senators be filibuster legit patient than to say they decide. Ok, that's it we're never fear. was there any more worthy to flee the capital over to flee the state in Europe and a fine us? Now I wrote about the system as a gym The sergeant arms can always use force to reinforce the the senators to return back to work, and I guess they could, but to do that. You gotta, find em and then all of a sudden, the entire legislative process turns into the movie the fugitives arena, with hard target searches from now outhouses dog houses and the entire timidly Jones Monologue I'd rather to abuse the blue, the legislature of the filibuster in this way, established practice than to turn this into this- you know where's Waldo, upstate legislators that we see every every now and then in state legislatures. That straight, I think that's tough, looks kind of ridiculous in the other thing, I feel just aspect of this. It is very hard to when you get when you do this, you know hide and seek game of state legislators will then like, then nothing can get them

because the legislator, whose you know outside of the state capital or outside of the state, because they don't want one particular controversial builder, be best when I can't do anything else does not like they can pass. The budget does not like they can work on any noncontroversial bills. At that point, the entire legislative process comes comes to a halt Nyc. I can hear some list has already sent a Jim. That sounds perfect. What's that's? That's brilliant where the process to halt, but I think I'd prefer the process running. More smoothly, but a little more force compromise and I think the threat of the filibuster forces parties to compromise and to try to find build some consensus. So you know this: Racism is a bad idea and I think, eliminate fulfil buster means you're, probably gonna see some version of it in the Senate at some point, which is why hope they never eliminate the filibuster but we'll see what happens, I think is even worse than the temptation is to say, while on the one hand, in Washington? The Democrats say that the path that is in the majority at least thanks to the vice president's tie. Breaking

should rule and, on the other hand, look how their behaving in Texas but, of course, text this is supposed to be in charge of its voting rules. The federal government is supposed to do a great deal. So the. dereliction of duty among state legislatures. It's a huge. Problem here, in the way that the existence of the filibuster is not the exists, if the filibuster is as much as anything now, a guarantor of federalism, it's a way of ensuring the only national policies that can get past are those that have buying from lots and lots of states. Also geographical regions, lots of different political factions but you can't do that at the state level so that this This is more than hypocrisy. This is an issue, version of the way that the United States is supposed to work where you have a party saying what we, shop to work at the state level

but we also want cop loss at the federal level, and outside of a handful of areas, the military being one of them, imports and exports being another. That's a recipe for disaster, so Charlie, what you think of Asia, one as the answer to all this, you had yesterday Billy. I believe, a hundred democracy experts are scholars issuing it a joint statement. Saying the only way to remove the dire threat to the country's democracy represented by legislation in the states, like we ve seen in Georgia and in Texas, is to limit filibuster and pass it's our one. Among other things. I think it's risible. I think that it is a ploy and that it will well. Everyone who wants to blow up the system always has a reason why?

It's always wow. I don't really want to have to do it, but this is just too important. Administration tried this during the Two thousand seventeen eighteen legislative session. Thankfully Republicans didn't bite and they would join, did not biting by what thirty three Democrats, who back then to filibuster, was in and all of a sudden, the something now its voting rights this just to. Important, but United conservatives could do that to Cosette this was why we don't want to but look aboard and is taking a life. while we don't want to but we're talking here about the second amendment where we don't want to, but citizens United needs to be fleshed out the first amendment, it's it's cheap, it's based on the conflation of science or political science with parties and politics I now do not think that is going to work, not least because,

the underlying bill that being used ass, the battering ram doesnt have fifty boats in the Senate. If Democrats fifty seven Senate seats and fifty seven senators, who are absolutely committed to HR one and were deeply frustrated with the Republicans Mcconnell and CO was still saying. No we're going to filibuster. This, I think they would be no chance at the filibuster would go away. Joe mention is not favor of hr, one Cinema is which mean she's on paper, more likely to be willing to block the filibuster in its defence. Dimension is not going to take a step that he desperately wants to avoid taking, but he read rated as recently as yesterday. He is not interested in to advance a bell. He himself opposes so Now I see this ass follows

It's an appeal to authority where none exists and has no real effect in the real world it is perfectly wait for the exit question to you. First, Jim Gary HR one will pass the Senate yes or no Charlie, you're, no permanent And I'll make it unanimous? Absolutely! No with that, let's go to a first answer. This episode, Bab for most of us learning a second language in high school college wasn't exactly a high point in our academic careers. I think German took a couple years of it at you, ve ay, but is something really bad happened from their career EPA, which I figured it out that no longer being high school? I actually good didn't didn't have to shop for class

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the stolen and leave this act fast will be discovered and that the rightful office that was stolen from from him will be he restored, and I know for a fact that this is something that Trump is telling people you. You never know with with these these kind of stories. Very often they they weren't reliable when he was in the White House. But this This is definitely his his state of mind what you make of it. I think, as our colleague, Michael Breton Dorothy, who observed that the feed building of events diagram of those intersecting circles, the circle of people who talk to Trump regularly and the circle, People who talk to Maggie Haven regularly must overlap pretty small. can't be that many people, could have been the source for their son, and you saying it rich makes me believe. Ok, I definitely saying the sort of thing

a very bad sign. I think it's cook over cover puffs. I think it's like even by the standards of previous tromp presidency lottery this. Is really not the idea that somehow we did the same date Is TAT this is a magic April, fifteen August fifteenth or something some no magic day that all of a sudden trump gets to go back into the White House Then everything gets undone. I guess I guess, on the legislation and executive orders, if I did just proof, go disappear and all kind of stuff. I seem to remember lots of folks being convinced that I don't know duration day. You and I was gonna, be revealed in another, the storm was gonna horizon and you know all kinds of crazy. Stop is going to happen and it did not happen, and I cannot but suspect people are setting themselves for disappointment again because before inauguration day there was the cracking has been unleashed and then Yeoman City, Paolo setting, Yet nobody, nobody, no reasonable person, monopoly the stuff, and I was saying guess what folks this

another serving of that, as is Michael Flynn, speculation that there's no reason we couldn't pull in Myanmar and how of a military coup reinstate dull from past presidents. I think this is like Google for crops is my standard hey. This is really, the term. This is not a little bit dangerous. I don't need this quite is dangerous because it prompts April some guy is down in monologue. August now was up in dead minster. He doesn't command any military forces. He doesn't have directs militarized force. They could take control of the capital and tv series lobby saw us up, some would argue they tried on January six. This is all like really bad. I do, and I think this is setting up from support for one more one,

more disappointment, and I do wonders there's also party that Trump seems so attached to this, and there are some Republicans seem tat. This is a parliament says: ok, fine, let's go into the twenty twenty two midterms, arguing that the elect It was stolen that by this illegitimate that there is, an issue in the papers that were used, the ballots in Arizona. Let's let's see how that goes, because if a guy is badly. I really like the Republican Party to move on to an actual concern agenda instead of consumers, see there is about going to try and the twenty Twond you midterms rather than waste another up to new twenty four presidential election catering to the fence. He's a paranoid and increasingly deranged former president, so try that this has to be The craziest, certainly among the craziest, but probably the craziest thing. A former president has ever believed any nations entire history yeah, although the cost

creation, of course is a living document, I'm supposed to evolve with the times- and I I just don't think it's possible for us to know what the found is meant by four year term. Now I'm in There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for reinstatement in the american system of government is not how it Works is not how it ever works, it's not how it can leaving aside that Joe Biden, one the twenty twenty presidential election and that the Democrats, one fish, he sits in the Senate and that they want a majority, albeit a slim one in the house. Even if it were uncovered right now that. Michael in Dallas, correct and an unholy alliance of George Soros in Venezuela and manipulate

Who invented the jewish space? Laser had changed, totals. We would nor have a process that culminated in Donald Trump being put back in the White House. That's not thing, as Dillinger has it He believes that it is a thing Sid alarm everyone because It shows that he doesn't have a particularly good understanding of the system that he headed up and took an oath. Paul, but also that he's surrounded by people who are telling him lies or who are equally delusion on the. Big worry for me is not that Donald Trump has proven himself to be out of touch with reality, although we have

The big worry for me is that. Some version of this does seem to be perfectly. It's in among republic invaders. now, it's not unique, say their people at your bar. Probably this I haven't heard that we'll have to other. Maybe I flatter myself see that comes up. It's not unique to Republicans. It certainly different in that people high level within the former president suggesting it, but it isn't unique too. publicans- that there was among rank and file Democrats a peculiar belief after the twenties Stay in election, they Hillary Clinton, was somehow going to be president once Russia Gate came, The conclusion I was discovered at Facebook had had the election or that The marshal of the Supreme Court got involved in took too

both of the White House in an orange jumpsuit. But it is the sort of illiterate nonsense that should be tempt down by those in positions of authority and influence and power. And evidently for President Trump former President Trump is doing the opposite, and that's just not good for a system of government in which too few people ready, understand constitutional rules. You have this bit of a feature of trouble the beginning right I mean he rose to one things it made him prominent at the beginning, and republican politics was championing the birth or theory which is kind of like this was like a subterranean thing: it You hear some some people mentioning it or are wondering it, wondering about event than Trump elevated it into a much bigger thing, and that's that's what he's doing here, although he's also driving this,

creating this himself away, didn't with birth tourism, but Jim, as if we say that this is something is out there and this so called Q Anon Conference, where Michael Flynn spoke in a city pow, said from the stage that there's no reason that the trump shouldn't be reinstated and he eat that. That would be the rightful thing to have happened and he had a fine statement, about the coup, which apparently said she went on upset. Jane, but somewhat from the audience asked why why this could happen here. Oh, what why there can be a minimum style that here in the end, states and plans there's no reason it happen here. There's no reason: now He's trying to say that that now is trying to say that that that was him actually disagree with a quick questioner and what he said is there's no reason it could happen here. What you can t actually listened to the clip just the the pause.

don't don't work for that interpretation. But it's it's. It's sad to see someone who served served. The countryside probably way down in this rabbit all yeah I reminded avoiding, was former DNA James Clapper, who said that we know he erroneously misspoke to Congress when they ask Germany said no, he met. Yes, you just missed it. one word. That's all you know. I give a recurring theme or jokers podcast. I'm a jets fan, I love football, but I write a method to fantasy football if you are listener fantasy football, good God bless you. I hope your team Windsor League. I hope you do great. I've never been able that get that into it. You could argue. I have enough defeat my life already and I don't need any additional one to look if you, if you like the idea of imagining being a gm and selecting players that you I can put it together, your ideal team from all different players from a great God, great trade, but I'd know,

yet when you say you want your lead championship, no one's handing you lombardy trophy. It's not real, that's why they call it fantasy football right and it's you. You have my play flag football. Your friends are possible. That's real right! You know me Nazi down, you're gonna feel it when you're guy If you got a really bad day, your fantasy of a boy, you just go back to work, nothing has actually changed in your life. I kind of want every body who really believes the Trump is elected. that there's gonna be some sort of grand moment away, Storm arrive and you know the Heavens open up in the penal code on shock troops. But everything happened. You know, there's never lets create that fantasy presidency. Then you can pick your fantasy cabinet members, and you can pass your fantasy pieces of legislation- and you can see and all of your time in this imaginary world and I'm sure, is getting very soon. And reassuring to you can enjoy yourself there. The The prosecutor live here the real world and deal with the real problems and among the real

for many of us on the right side of the elder, Joe Biden is president. The Democrats have a slim majority in the Senate, because Kamel hours braggin that breaking the ties. And in large part, because Trump Botched, the Georgia Run offs and Democrats of a small budget. The house that we have an opportunity to you know control of those chambers and twenty twenty two. If we get our heads out of a particular place and focus on to get server republicans. Instead of trying to argue that Olaf is bamboo shoots in the ballot paper in Arizona Ergo. They must have come from China Resign or some sort of nonsense you guys go off and play fantasy politics over there. The rest of US real politics over here, I'm going to try to get stuff You guys, like enjoy yourself to go, go, go, dress up like dungeons dragged players or something cosplay, do whatever the heck you want. Leave real politics to the rest of us and I think all be happier that way: exe

Do you Charlie cut the average reaction of republican officials to Trump reinstatement? Talk will be supporting it. Ducking uncovering politely saying it won't happen or pouring scorn on it. politely sang it won't happen. There will be people who do all of those things, but I think that's going to be the average reaction jump It'll start with ducking and covering and gradually move in the direction of. No, that's not gonna happen. Another president should stop. Not the form of residence should not be saying these sorts of things yeah, I guess I gotta go. I was thinking, maybe so Eugene, maybe in between, but I think the it'll more be politely sang it. It won't happen, so I am an optimist, honest one. So, let's hear from our neck sponsor this episode

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gets on one another and people coming by them and take them home and eat them, if you think it emerged that way, everything's ok, doesn't really make a huge amount of sense. Does it the fulcrum, I think this argument is, as always trump. Once again. We please tat, every question in our politics around Trump and so because Trump seem to indulge the lab lake. area than the lovely very must be intrinsically Phobic or racists, but of course, the altar. Relative is far more likely to conjure up unpleasant stereotypes is obvious to me at least that lab accidents happen everywhere

You can find examples of lab accidents in Britain, United States, India, Brazil. Not so much with wet markets, so we seem to have got this thing. The wrong way round. The sino centric explaining it is the one involving bats bought at wet markets, weapon is that all look down upon by the international community. The non sino centric explanation is, biology, lap exists in all countries and indeed in hand, which is asked by people from all over the world. This is a peculiar one it also fails to take into account normal human Motivations, of course, were talking today, with Jim who's, been

real here on this question. Right from the beginning, looked at it dispassionately and in detail. There is a suspicion. I think, among a certain sort of progressive, that the reason someone such as Jim was injured. Sit in this story is because he harbours animosity towards China, which of course he doesn't outcomes razor explaining for those who continue to it's impossible that cove, it was the result of a lovely, was that they thought the cove, it might be the result of a lab league. I really think the number of people who pushed this theory or at least indulge

this theory, because they hope there would be an increase in violence on America. Streets against people of asian american origin is tiny if, if not nonexistent, so that the case doesn't make a great deal of sense, it is just somehow been absorbed into our talking points without much examination, yeah and an author it, it does seem it's hard to get good numbers method. It does seem there was an upswing and attacks, and harassment on Asian Americans against Asian Americans in various cities last spring around the time of the virus first emerged in, and then it was taboo to say that it that it came from a lab.

So the jail I was shocked to see. I think it is about a week ago there is a near times reporter recovers covered, and she said we need to stopping obsess flattery and admit that this theory- Racist origins and I saw screen capture this new. No, he never quite know on Twitter is someone making this up? Is it true this, is a New York Times report covering coded. I went, looked looked at her feet. it turned out. She had she deleted up, ticker, tweet, big. It still see the thread. Sing it- and she had really said this- she really believed this, and this is what we ve talked about, why the conventional wisdom formed that couldn't possibly have come from a lab, and this is one reason did because had a lot of people in the mainstream press.

For whatever reason thinking it was discriminatory and an hateful to believe this might have come from a lap yeah. You know when I hear about the increasing assaults on Asian Americans are in me, heinous, utterly unacceptable european thinking, my markets on the streets in the sort of thing to prevent this sort of

from happening, but now we have to abolish the policing, defined the police and all that Charlie said early got ya. Look I'm good at what they beat your swapping the notion that an anti chinese look. I don't like the chinese government, they ve done some very bad things. Probably you know what you ve been. What what most Americans know about China of my age and a gentleman square jumps tomorrow. I will remember the image of the man standing up against that role of tanks and very clearly that from that moment on, if you ve got fourteen functioning brain cells, you from that image, you can learn the Chinese. People are not the same the chinese government, the chinese people can in many cases be in opposition to the chinese government, literally standing up against that road tanks. Yeah. And if you, if you didn't care about chinese people, you would

care that the government was ghastly tabs super bigger. So from we're beginning of this. If you want to say yesterday, I laid out, I started wondering: ok, we know about arms. The original Sars Britain leaking out from the Beijing Centres for Disease control back in two thousand for two twice separately and wondering ok love what other Students have happened in China. No easy because you know said the Charlie lab accidents happen. All over the world hubris ladder filled with human beings. Human beings make mistakes in Russia, lab equipment bridge you d, yeah yeah, I guess we're not would say so. On the one hand, this is really the idea Ali Inadmissible. The weirdest arguments I heard early on the pandemic, though not the choice

he's my ravages honest about their, dare to careful there too, diligent to ever make a mistake like this, and I pointed out, like the CDC companies, like small part smallpox in a cloth I really good doctors and biologist epidemiologist researchers can make stupid mistakes, it happens and what is not they're stupid, What it is that, if you have, if I hand you ok, you Charlie Richards, really dangerous sample virus and Heres a list of instructions on how to handle it properly, you're gonna handle it super duper carefully. That, first, not you can follow instruction to the letter, because you're afraid of what can happen and you get it really careful for the first ten fifteen, twenty, probably the first hundred times, but maybe not the five hundredth time they ve got a thousand times trying to do the same thing when it gets easy to cut corners, it gets neither make mistakes and, by the way, as of yesterday, I went through all these history of these lab accidents, not just biology, lives, chemistry, lapse, university lapse. Things like that would have ended up with fatal accidents in China going back too much

thousand war to the starting, a and lonely out like it and start to say that the Chinese are typically ban. Although I did quote some chinese exports in Burma, science, don't say people say the media ignored this technically true you could find. in some specially publications, but it was not Leading CNN are things like that, but neighbours, that you're lucky, the culture of bio safety in the culture of lab safely in China was not worthy. Scientists said it needed to be It also was not wear that this was they generally didn't. Have the equipment? the other ones dead, and it was one survey of seven asian countries that I believe did not include China. That said that thirty percent of the safety equipment was defective improperly installed incorrectly design or other things. I would suggest it might not work. So to me all of this book together like well. This makes it necessary definitely happened this way, but it says it could happen way and this argument author to careful there too diligent, I'm sorry. This is nonsense,

That's an order. That's argued of somebody who doesn't know what you're talking about. It was basically taking on faith that chinese scientists are better than than scientists have or elsewhere but, unlike all other human beings and make mistakes something about what at the warnings due to biology makes you immune to human error like everywhere else. Now the thing it's all this year's, if you and, if you real over those like me, you want to say on this- is that I chinese biased or something like that- locked, the first people to suffer from this virus or the chinese people the first people to die from this virus or from chinese people now as I've written about this. I have a ritual like with limited plus our fundraising pitch on homepage right now we are not a big institution by the entire time, at no point did rich or Charlie or anybody else at national, say Jim, don't write about this. This could really, sales of our Babo heads over in China, yet National

who does not have a parent company were not like Comcast or not like Disney. We don't have some big core prepare the providers lots of money, but that also expects us to not bow up their expansion plans and the chinese market, I'm not so that's what happened in the case of the New York Times reporter, but I do think when you see institutions- and you see John sooner and you see- look Jameson, you see all these other votes, rarely really reluctant to confront China. I cannot help but be weighing the race car and claiming this is anti chinese bias, and this is anti chinese. It a way for big institutions to avoid confronting the real record the chinese government, which is pretty gains. I mean you don't put aside the pandemic. You can. The genocide against the, whereas you can look at it with their crackdown in Hong Kong and even come up here oh they're, allowed people out a third child now they're so generously said, use run down. What's the chinese government's human rights record? Is demons resume at

you know there are a lot of people who are really uncomfortable with it with confronting that back, because I've got an enormous amount of money at stake. The depends upon being on the good side chinese government. I think that's what's at the heart of this look, but clearly racism at the heart of this gas, because they got a lot of money in China when people look into article two, Jim Jim, really quickly set hasn't been a heavy focus of yours, but had allowed discussion of the gain, a function, research and fancies role in that, and why that? Do you know why that money would have gone too The war on lab It just seems other there. Many many labs enough, there must be scandal the lab zero to the source for research, that you really have competence in the standards society. Do you know why why we wanted the loop this region? funding end up going to the woman, One thing I can point out here is that you have been built

If I were Peter Deserts defence lawyer, maybe he should use one of those. I put other eco, how the lions gave a lot of money to large institutions around the world. That said, you know we ve had. Each one at one with a z, a bunch of minor league pandemics, the world over the last few decades or so, but probably Is the most serious one by lotta standard? Was the original Sars ah which started over in China, thankfully, that one, get out of control. We in the United States did painterly as much attention to it because it started was really flaring up around the time of the start. The Iraq war but it really ironically, never really touched american life, but was a big deal over there and I think it really free people out for good reason, and I suspect that it was from bats, but they were. We know how to censor it made sense. If you wanted to know more about help where the next big terrible global pandemic was to start looking. Where would last one what else came from China? Was it and unfortunately, the Chinese

government is the ultimate authority over all. You know trying his health research over there look. I don't doubt there are good people working at the blue Han instead of our ology doubt there are people over there who went into this because they want to help people. The problem is that research on dangerous viruses, dual use, the more you know that have fight them is the more you know how to weapon, Iceland and the process of gain a function. Research takes a virus. It is not that dangerous and need a goat runs it. process that makes it more dangerous, other virologist who said you got to do this. If you could do one how to stop a really dangerous virus, you need to be able to test it against the really dangerous virus and the best the risk is worth it If this comes out of a lab, I think it would be a much tougher argument. I think you know people might have been willing to take it on faith Us Gov. temporarily paused at first for the tail end of the Obama years at the beginning of the twelve years, and I think They are our demographic and a very strong point. If we're going to allow any kind of being a function researching the future, we may require it

are you in the middle of nowhere? You gotta do it in Siberia or some stretch of the desert in the American South do something. You can't you in the middle of a city which is what will on instead of biology, was doing, which I think and see if it was a leak and circumstantial evidence is piling up. I you can begin to see the absently catastrophic consequences of a decision like this Excuse me, you Charlie, give us you're temperature on the lab theory, zero to ten zero. You did dismiss it. Just dont think this happened. It's crazy! Ten, you believe, is an absolute certainty. I've I'm not qualified to I understand this, the more I read them. I realise how unqualified I am I've, no matter retraining, I'm not epidemiologist. I know nothing about virology. I've never been to school on China but for that matter, but it seems to me that

it is entirely plausible. It seems to me that its prima facie plausible, and that the evidence that has been marshalled by people who, either fight or who have done sterling work in. Familiarizing himself with the case on either side is, as Jim has seems to me that it is still Entirely plausible and the vast majority of the duration and the opposition that we ve seen has been political in nature. It hasn't been analytical, so I'm a five I I can fathom arguments, and I hope we find out the truth. It is just disgrace that it's taken a year before anyone is allowed. This theory to be

pushed into the mainstream and then having decided they would allow to pretend that there was some difference in the evidence all of a sudden rendered the change justifiable Jameson, eyes, a modest IDA not a biologist five. Where are you also none of our allergist. Also that a doctor. Nor do I play a doctor on tv. I guess you have been a percentage wise. They get separated sixty six That may be due to one a little had Charlie, but not yet not you look it's not guarantee. It is possible that tomorrow they find a bat, or a penguin that is out there a nature that has this precise virus they found similar ones, but not precise, once that's terrible nature, but has its chances, are good. As you know, some farmers one, oh and inhaled nuts. I this whole thing got set off, which about yet, and I think whether reasons you're seeing the shipping conventional wisdom is because they have found this evidence that a lot of people figured they find at some point.

I actually nearly Alex. one other like little asterisk, that I think those like a ninety percent chance. Something was going on on instead of biology, but the Chinese when does not want us to now, and I think it exceptionally good chance at some of it is research that is applicable to biological weapons and would violate biological weapons treaty. So that I think, another more competent same business surfing the chinese government is done at its back. by several assessments of various in our biological weapons, on profits- in U S unchallenged things like that found the same- I I take the point. Evidence could emerge at any point that words support the the natural giants theory and were we're, never gonna know. Unless the Chinese cooperate and openly every record up to us, which they obviously aren't gonna do, which is a telling in its own right, but just seems to me,

reading people. The know how much more about this than than I do that the lab theory, given what we know at the moment is more likely than not with that. Let's hit a few other things Before we go Charlie. You went back to the Uk Tat for the first time, I met in tuna, is I saw my parents for the first time in about two years, which was absurd any further delay. Yes fantastic. I mean that that they wanted to come over here for a while, but I think it is still the case that non american citizens will struggle to. today's. I obviously was able to go over there because I am a jewel citizen, but despite the fact that I am fully vaccinated. I still had to

wander through the gauntlet of paperwork and endless covert tests. Think at this stage might need to be revisited, but of course it was absolutely worth. It was wonderful to see my parents- people in my family- and it just made me realize needed, reminding, I suppose how keen, I am forced to say, hate, remember when corrective arm with a thing Jimmy had Memorial Day cook up, I did, and I think somewhere in the early part of the year rescued asked whether one is life gonna feel like it Normally, when are they in a full capacity, it stated in stock. I sit around the world. I hope all his nurse had a good memorial day began I you know we had a whole bunch of people over Catwoman were better than ever, while against Mass Bell, often everybody else.

Vaccinated, so we all kind of alpine with any just as normal, and we had a couple, surprise guests and we decided on a food he's running around in his mentioned brood access here so bunch, a little kids were squeamish about. It were eventually picking up the cicadas and throwing them at each other and just having the best time you didn't during the scarce. No, no, I don't want you. it bugs is my attitude of those. You know ego begins to say you: can it bugs the environment. Now you eat bugs and Wikipedia cows. unless the russian hackers get their way. But now just a terrific weakened- and it was now was a slice of like from before this awful ordeal we ve all been through nobody. I worry about wearing national, mandatory busting sixty two parts, terrific What else an indrawn like that, and I am really looking forward to a very normal some sites, that offer real day some driveway fireworks. That would allow fireworks you get it at a roadside stand are already a gas station are suddenly then lovely things or another

a lot of my little disappointing that they dont too, that there are the wrapper and their names and an overly flight, what they're going to deliver, but there some other than that are really cool and do make you go well, and I just I love the sound of them. I love the smell of them and it just it it's so rude Olin of an american summer. So is a great way to start our summer. With that, its time in this very house Casper enters pigs, Jimmy Authority. The topic so a lot of strong options the past couple of days long ago with bad are missing. Man Michael bring Dorothys the meeting is memorable privilege. We went out how, in some cases it stealth at its emulate the publication

change the text online without noting making the correction in other ones. If, like soft peddling the correction, this article has been added without really getting in detail about, What was previously wrong in what is now different about it, and it's just a one a stinging indictment, but also its interest. In contrast between the way we treat People who say an individual people who say do erroneous things and how it these errors can feel like they live on social media forever, whereas big publications and can just change the past. actually road and gonna downplay the earth ass. He summarizes in this in the digital future. Individuals will be held accountable for all their sins, while the ruling institution for just print notices about updates that service. big reminders of day online You have a licence to be wrong precisely because you have a duty to believe them and they have the right to be believed. stinging by a b d and a really good one. China should pick my

Pic is Mario Erle. Israel has every right to destroy a mass lines up with my instincts on this question, but is fleshed out with a great deal more expertise than I have. so. My pig is Robert Reboot again call interposed, leave me alone about this ridiculous twitter campaign against Ellie Camper, who is the actress in the unbreakable Jimmy Schmidt, a Netflix areas that is really charming and clarity. and that I've enjoyed and this campaign is, is based on the fact that when Nineteen years old she was honoured at the so called veiled. Profit ball, Canada, an odd debutante bar for wealthy people

in Saint Louis back in eighteen. Ninety nine and this event way way way packed the beginning has some racist associations. So people have used this test. mere camper. As a k, K, K, princess Twitter made this power there. Trending bar thus said directly promoting this notion and This is just one another's there's an example. Every single day of just how ugly and disgusting our social media discourse is in this, country. So that's it for us even listening to a national view. Podcast anyway, broadcasters transmitter causes camped out, express written permission of national. nothing is strictly pro gibbeted despite cast has been produced by the incomparable Sarah should he makes a sound better than we deserve. Thank Jarley thing Jim thanks to babble enter the bonds and group thanks, especially to all of you for listening where the editors machine next time