The Taliban sweeps across Afghanistan covert still hasn't left the headlines and the delta search threatens to abandon politics from coast to coast. I am Charles Cook in this week, for rich Larry and I'm joined by Jim, at least the jets on two hundred Roma Geraghty Alexander really not run the scientists, his wife, the sanctify and fails covered in Anti catches climb. Let's start this week with Afghanistan. We talked about this for what twenty years we ve had pressed

and, after president, after president, who has promised to get out- and we finally seem to be doing it and it has gone up bout ass expected we just waiting for a helicopter on, the roof moment, Jim, what's going on luck, We knew there were not a lot of good options in Afghanistan. There was now. You can argue whether a small presents a three thousand five hundred, so troops that we'd had for much of the past year so would manage to keep the peace theirs argument from the buyer demonstration that well yeah weed then, beyond. The only reason things required in Afghanistan was because of This sense that America was leaving pretty soon. That was keeping the Taliban QUIET and at the moment we indicated we are sticking around for a long time. The Taliban would have started attacking our troops again and it would become a bloody war again.

Then we're gonna get NEO assumes that we can't be the Taliban. That kind of assumes. The fact like well. The only reason we're not seen major major deaths is because the Taliban are being nice to us and that we have no capacity to hurt them what were now everybody we recording this on August, their teams time. People listen to this another. Two or three provinces, probable, probably have fallen to the Taliban. They are full say dominoes predominance, take some time to fall the swiftly. It is an absolute catastrophe The word is the apparent that the embassy, as you know, we back the waiting its staff were the Pentagon. Just answer sending another thousand or so troops to kelp draw down we're sending and more troops to epic reassure the weekend. We evolve our troops there. Excellent chance and I took the twenty year anniversary of the nine slash eleven attacks will be marked by the Taliban celebrating the fact they have control over Afghan.

and, if not by then they'll have like everything except couple that they'll have almost a huge chunk of the country under control. Everybody can see what's happening right now and Ministration that had gone through this and said: don't worry, you know we're not doing this recklessly we're not doing this to know. We were going to go through this. We know we're going to stay on top this don't worry America, we're not gonna, let terrorism come back message from buying way, just a month ago, just on Gent July, twenty, ninth or surgical, I noticed tat. He was going to the american public and saying don't worry I trust the capacity of the afghan military who are better trained, better equipped and more competent in terms of conducting war that nonsense because another word I wanted to use their. Nobody knew was nonsense. The time if you can get off my be honest with the american people about the consequences, but are in fact,

I had set of exact a boyfriend slip there by Joe Biden said we will not conduct a hasty rushed to the exit we'll do it responsibly deliberately and safely. Does it seem safe right now? Does it seem, like things are gone right as an excellent chance by If you're, not only the Taliban back in charge, but it is lamas. Terrorism has gotten this giant, foreshadowing, booster shots They ve got this grand a sense of duty of new energy and enthusiasm and momentum, because after twenty years, they have waited out America, they retaken Afghanistan and they can open open up the training camps. Just like that, Well, we'll be right back September. Tenth again, it is absent. The appalling result of this fight and told us it was to be this bad. You can argue that look. This is something America that you know. Obama had wanted to do. This is on the trumpet wanted to do and binds paying the price for just ripping off the bandit. Well, if we end up, in September tenth environment, then it is a defeat for the United States and it is a defeat for the night,

because the binding ministration chose to this path- and that's where we're, what do we do fell? I don't disagree with anything that Jim just said. It is a disgrace that, who have been critical of our engagement in Afghanistan generally less so than our engagement in Iraq, but there have been Afghanistan. Critics have pointed out that is the sort of conflict is the sort of prevention and management that is difficult to win. The sense that we have one wars in the past and, for example, the Pacific and year in World WAR two and that asked the british empire found out. Managing a space is vast and chaotic and complicated as Afghanistan never works and ass. The result you seem to have two camps. One says: let's not, well, let's not stay,

the other says. Yeah will need to be that for a hundred years and then politicians, because they understand both of those concern popular saying. I will find a middle ground. Is there one now. I mean that you could argue that their work, a sort of metal ground before the most recent withdrawal. In so far as we had a very light footprint of a few thousand military and while I was in things weren't perfect, It was a sort of a thriving liberal democracy. The Taliban. Wasn't in control so, there was a. U could argue but there was a sort of milk ground, but I said argued in the past: the disorder

interventionist and non interventionists that sort of day. The argument, the best argument for both sides is sort of the same right, because the argument for leaving against Lebanon was that what is going to happen is precisely what is happening now by the counter to bad from IRAN. Intervention aside, is that's why we shouldn't get involved if, if, if we can't get involved with the play in a place without having to be stuck there forever else, everything falls apart, Maybe we shouldn't get involved in the first place right, so the arguments have certain validity, but they're they're both kind of a are dealing with a similar set of facts. Now I think it's been.

very disheartening, even though it was entirely predictable to see what we're The thing is almost the reverse of the Afghanistan WAR, because when America came in help the northern alliance. You basically had in a matter of weeks, the Taliban fallen and the northern alliance taking care of more taking over more and more cities and provinces, and now we're seeing those same provinces fall into their hands. The Taliban to you Look at Kandahar now and I mean, as Jim says, we could be just a few weeks away from a big celebration in Kabul, on the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven

so it is really disheartening. I think that the ultimate test is gonna, be whether or not there are actually terrorist attacks that are carried out from Afghanistan. Right I mean you could argue that the in theory if you're, when that this all started and will be launched, the worry against Afghanistan. The argument was that U S was no longer going to make a distinction between the terrorists and the nations who harboured the terrorists right. So if Afghanistan I mean, if the Taliban is thinking well, if we don't know if we could basically do whatever we want.

as long as we're not allow at providing a base for terrorists that are launching attacks on the United States, then maybe there it was some deterrent to fast to our twenty year effort over there. But I think that if there is a terrorist attack that was rooted, fur from Afghanistan, there's gonna be a lot more help to pay for buying and and for all of them. You know pro withdraw people, because there were in attacks being washed from Afghanistan to an American so,

over the last twenty years, and if that changes, then it sort of it puts them at him. I think they're gonna be much more on the defensive than they are now german. Ask a question that I raised Jacob export costs this week. Is it possible for a nation such as the United States, a global had Jim on too maintain that position without essentially having to operate imperial outposts. We we know from history that the vast majority of global heads have been empires and most likely, the next one live. Indeed, China were ever to see. The United States in stature would want to be America understand that Chomsky I left

the sense from this viewpoint. America really has never wanted to be an empire, and quite that way we ve had a few flirtations Teddy Roosevelt it is it possible to be a liberal republic and not end up in Afghanistan, Vietnam's and careers and so on, absolutely charlie- and I bet you're You're use that you yourself are not making this argument that irks me, but I think a lot of people who talk around the terms like American Empire Really do some base stealing a really do some blurring of the line, because, when you think of all past empires throw Empire the British Empire year they they conquered They they not only like had a military presence in error. They effectively ruled that area,

States is not an M star is not an empire because of the presence of Ramstein AIR Force Base in Germany we are not an empire because we have military bases now, so you ve military bases in Okinawa or South Korea. The water having troops in a place does not meet you rule the place now. We're gonna have tensions with those governments every down that job. That's it, but that doesn't mean your higher? That doesn't mean that your interest is in conquest. Your interest, easy and control interest is in some sort of sense of having real power behind the throne and being able to influence what these countries are doing. What are really at you, if you, if you think we control, would cut the countries at host. Our military bizarre, take a look at our relationship with Saudi Arabia for Kuwait. For that matter, right we're plenty disagreements with them, but in and we ve preferred, would much rather have our guys there within position to protect them in case of some sort of terrorists We did want to find ourselves in a worldwide style situation again whereby

time. We realise there was some evil malevolent empire were on the march. We are half way on one side of the wrong side of an ocean, and we had to scramble to try to get any basis to begin the counter attack This is this is entirely a matter of needing a mutual defence. It is not an empire, we're not interested in taking over these countries politically, we are not interested in culturally changing them. We are not interested in socially changing them. maybe with a little bit of you now he could argue about the emperor worship Japan or the d not sufficient, or something like that by large. we let these out of our ally countries got. Do you wanna? Do we just want to have a mutual defence agreements that have trouble starts in your neighborhood? We can fighting from the basis we have their instead, the basis we have all way back here and pearl, or something like that. situation? I just want also like wild guys for chatting. I went back and I checked back on July nights, vocalize present Joe

was ass. You know, was there any comparison spring? This withdrawal, but happened? Vietnam and President Bide went for the country and said how a ban is not the sort of the north, be it in these army there, not third remotely compatible with friends of cake Billy. There's gonna be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of the embassy of that the United States from Afghanistan. It is not it compare up. I was a month ago, folks, that's that's where we are and the other is gonna teach kids coming to mine. Whenever I see this pseudo towering inferno of our foreign policy was Bobby goods again. Protein slept there. When Joe Biden came to Washington publications like the financial times said: the grown ups are back in charge here in Washington, in Vogue, wrote Joe Biden, cabinet picks, send a clear message: the adults are back in charge but of course Joe Biden gives gonna giving speeches saying America is back, of course,

We're watching girls get acid in their face again, and you know we're scrambling to get our people out of their, and the assumption is that we're not gonna have an embassy Afghanistan producing style padding yourselves on the back and telling us how smart you if you're real, is because you think you are start generated results in you're gonna suffer raw. Her height, while with that we come to our first sponsor cheese, Tommy John told John, makes underwear specifically it makes APOLLO underwear, which is Tommy, Johns, newest and most advanced men's underwear. Yet without performance grade dry release fabric land, that is exclusive to Tommy, John, it's Tommy, Johns latest comfort in patient and you can't get it anywhere else apply men's underwear is proven to keep you dry and up to seven degrees, cooler than regular cotton underwear, and that's why Tommy John doesn't have customers they have fanatic,

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months now- and I remember last year being ass, we things what I done and saying July, style July of the next year. In fact, it's not orders of the next year and It's still here. It's still story. Where are we in this saga? I I feel the same way as you. I thought that it would start being a topic of conversation far sooner than it was, and I think earlier this year. We had every reason to think it finally would start fading out of our memory, and, what's so odd about it to me, is that the people were talking about and keeping it in the headlines. Don't seem to see that the pandemic is not where it was at this time last year, where it started the tone, at least from what I've seen it served in their national conversation, obviously the personal level on across the country. This isn't the case, but in the way

covered and talked wrought by politicians in the CDC. The level of of panic and You know, concern and micromanaging has remained basically stable from March of twenty twenty two today, which is sir, because as we have seen living through it, the circumstance this have changed dramatically many many times over the course of the last year and a half there were times when things looked very bleak, got better and then got worse again, and much since the vaccines came out. I think everybody with our had gone straight. Pretty much seen that we're on a very hopeful trajectory, in the right direction, and yet the national conversation has not sounded like that, and I think there are a lot of reasons for that Many of which are political in nature and trying to capitalize on what remains of the pandemic as a political tool or a tool for controlling people are winning votes or two reasons like that, but from where I'm sitting with them.

Axiom's. Your risk of ending up in the hospital on a ventilator dying having significant illness is gone. If you gotten a vaccine, it's because you ve thought about it. seriously or maybe not thought about it and and for whatever reason chosen not to do it and so if sorted ourselves into people who want to get the vaccine in those you down, and we can go about business for the most part, that the point of all the locked out policies and everything we had was to keep the hospital some overflowing no prevent as much serious outbreak as possible and now that we have the vaccine were able to do We have done that. For the most part. Of course, public health officials should care about people who have just not get vaccine and our second care, but we're not where we were at this time last year, and I think it's irresponsible. people in the media for politicians to continue talking as if we are ya, stay with you. What is your take on those officials who are talking as if we are Joe Biden this week suggested that

He was looking into whether he had the power as president of the United States. to impose a universal mask mandate. The schools, not the answer to that is he doesn't baggage our objective for you. He won't Do we ve seen pole showing that a majority. He of american support, masking mandates for school I saw someone some this, somewhat pitifully on Twitter, saying that there is a very strange paradox here in that at the same point, at which expert opinion is acknowledging that masking doesn't do a great deal, there is a fanatical drive to impose it by fear on the least vulnerable people in the country that is children. What explains that is it is it

Ebay is superstition, is the abundance of caution or is it correct? I certainly don't take its correct. I think they're, I hate to say you don't use that horrible phrase. The science is clear, but on this point I think it's pretty obvious that medically going, it's not necessary to have the least honourable pocket listen wearing as many people in far as a pointed out really not well made masks that are basically doing nothing for eight hours a day and probably actually causing autism the harm. We don't really have much information on that, but I suspect that start doing nothing to kids, have to go around and masks all the time while their parents don't have to. I have seen many children playing outside with masks on with their parents who are not wearing asked which just freaks me out, but in any event, I think when it comes to politicians, like Joe Biden and other Democrats were extending this pandemic. I think into you know using it as a tool to these crisis control measures. What we're seeing is that the Democratic Party gets what it wants.

a governing body, or they d get what they want out of running the government when we're in crisis mode, they have an excuse, to impose all sorts of control measures when they can to foment people. and the thinking there's some kind of national crisis on, and I think that's a big part of wider. One? I think it's a big part of Y know people were leaning in left direction during the Panther cancer, the longer that that goes on across the country, the longer they can convince people that we have to keep up sound and we just have another hurdle to get through and maybe lockdown are coming back. Whenever ass they're gonna concoction, not now you can't travel state to state. All of that is a democratic party. Most mind where the government is now take care of everything you decide to sit and I'll keep you safe. As long as you follow the rules, that's how the Democratic Party for the most part operates on every policy issue, and so I think they're benefited by it pending the pandemic and the fear of the Pandemic ass long ass possible. Failed. You agree with yeah, and I think that you wouldn't

just me: is that basically Werner situation where we have this surge and instead of saying loved this because of the highway vaccination. The the Well, I'm dying at quite the degree that they were There is no vaccination and also. Nearly everyone over sixty five years in the most vulnerable group is vaccinated, so that reduce This is the sort of social responses build a kind of claim Well, you don't want you know, you're, being reckless behaviour to endanger someone else's dearly mitigated when people have four months had easy access to safe and effective.

See inside the Emma, I think that clearly there, we realise that the Democrats realise that the walk down policies that have sort of theirs even among the lesters fatigue from lockdown policies So what do they want to do? They want to do something symbolic to suggest that they're taking things seriously and their choosing. The group has no agency, and that and had an agency Man that I I have to keep repeating is the this part of the population that is sacrificed the most relative to the threat that the virus poses to the witches negligible, and its disgraceful battling I'll blow, yet that an

I mean I remember in the beginning, when we were talking about mitigation measures such as closing schools and so forth, you'd say well, you know children dawn, Aren, T really getting it. very badly, they say: oh yeah, but you're you're protecting the older people. What about if there is a vulnerable? yet our teacher or they're coming home and seeing their grandparents and so forth. But now that they're trying to argue that its to protect the children, which is. not, you know- which is supported by the data- that this is a dangerous, a major threat. To that end, The other thing is, even if you were even there were an argument for SAM. It's a real danger for kids.

around each other and we really have to make sure that were reducing infection, then use mass that actually work and they learn no regulations on any sort of mass. There are all sorts of masks the people by on the Amazon and that they get their kids. To where I mean the ear, if you think of the way traditionally masks have been used, its doctors using medical grandma, for very targeted periods of time, we never had any experience of what happens. If you have kids wearing superhero masks that for eight hours a day they get sweaty in dirty and that are made of cloth and how is that can really protect? How beneficial is that in terms of reducing the spread, if your

the aim of the virus? Is this dangerous to kid? So it just doesn't make any sense and end to me it's a theater and it it's just all to show something showed that you're doing something and it at the expense of children, and I think that we're gonna find that over time

a lot of children grow up in this era, have had a lot of an additional anxiety disorders and a lot of different issues, and there has been some speculation that it could hinder early reading development because, typically, when kids learn to read and kindergarten, they have to look at the teacher and the you're working on that. What you're face looks like and what your words are looking like, and I think that the tin cans each other's faces and its to me. I just think that pudding, kids, amidst constant pandemic mindset, is ultimately harmful and

you know, I think we should be emphasising that we ve sorted, mitigated the risk enough to the point that we can get on with our lives and no longer have our wives dominated Beethoven. Jim you follow this every day I might may write about carbon wants weak directly or indirectly, but in the job you ve been. On top of this, you what's been terrific. here is a hypothesis, and I wonder if somebody who follows to come to us that much closer intervals with eating this is correct. Three weeks ago today, I took my kids to a birthday party, and while I was waiting for the doors to open, I was scrolling through various books that I read center.

To the centre, and there seemed to be that day a consensus that we had sort of come out of the other end, not the curve. It had gone about that it was time to draw A lot of the panel Andrews Sullivan wrote a color Letty RIP letter rip, making this case Jonah goal, but the same day you're not upon through made this this point, and in the time since her birthday party, we seem to have gone back almost, the same level of a panic and an anger and throwing things at one another, as we were in a year ago. What changed? I think your assessment is accurate. Unfortunately, though, and I really hate to do this- I put this as of this,

I feel slightly less helpful than Alexander and fill just sounded. I think the thing the jumps out at me, the most is this new report from the Mayo clinic, Spaghetti peer review Basically, they looked at the numbers for July amongst people who were coming into their facilities, testing positive recovered and they concluded. That as of July. Modernity is vaccine, was seventy six percent effective in preventing infection amongst those fully vaccinated? While Pfizer's was forty six percent of course there during this time the Delta burial is becoming more prevalent. So maybe it's less. You know a sign that the vaccines are becoming less effective than just Delta is tougher and delta is just you know not what they were designed to fight. Often there is somewhat less effective. very board emphasise these people were not being fully they are generally not any of the hospital people were fully vaccinated. We're not die a category. We all knew that at some point, the back the immunity that vaccines gave. You was going to fade for why we ve got a fake

for while we all lose knew there was a chance of back a very become long that these vaccines would not be nearly effective up, but done this space on some members out of Israel is looking like six months is where you start seeing it, and maybe that's just for the delta but whatever it is, we are not in the situation. We were two months ago, Threem to go, and it does not seem to have a reason to worry. I guess what really should be sticking to people's minds is the question of how safe, if you're, with that with either. Word for that matter with Madonna, for you, gonna, be in September, Halloween, move on the Thanksgiving and Christmas. You now is there a point. We're being fully vaccinated. Won't keep you out of the hospital or is it out, we would be no deltas year been hearing only reports about Lamb, then does debating, but whether it really all that much worse than just a different flavour, shall we say, but I think this is not something to sneeze at night, and tat. I think this is something to work, and I think the indication is that, after six months

Healthy, you don't have to worry about if you can help it at work, a lot of it if you're older, if you're, not a cop, then maybe you do want to get a booster and, in fact just yesterday, the food drug Illustration that are theses that, yes, yes, you should go out, get a booster. If you aren't you no compromise, if you're a recent organ transplant patient or at roughly that equivalent of having a problem with your immune system,. Now here's the thing there are forty four million Americans senior citizens are not by accident there, all coming to a big bunch of them, including by President Joe Biden, are now past six months, since they are full of immunity if it really is six months about whether they Pfizer had said yeah sometime between six and twelve months. You're, probably gonna need a booster. now, if all those things that, if we're gonna, see declining immunity among senior citizens month by month, although I picked it up by Golly, let's go get these folks booster shots. I'm bunker left scratch. I feel like our entire public health bureaucracy is operating.

at a much lower speed and one than other countries, and just for the clearest example of this, is that the Israelis are many of them. The July several were Wordpress with July. That wants is at eight percent, these amendments numbers here we think after six months, the vaccinations are merely is effective. So, like you know, just the beginning of this month, help boost shottsford senior citizens boost shot from Munich compromise, its August thirteenth Ten days they confer doses to seven hundred fifty four thousand senior citizens and other folks sort of arrest. They got it wrong. That did not wait. They did not hesitate. They got going your drawn to now. They're just nay, the starting a third shot for people were fifty years an older Israel can see. What's come there. Looking around the corner there, anticipating the next problem in this pandemic and are preparing people out of it are CDC, we're just to the Munich compromise today, which strikes me as a believe me, slow, moving process.

Ellie Public Health bureaucracy, which, like the only one in the world that can spread ours, is crawling. I just have this really frustrating state, because my think my senses, I look, saying we should outsource all of our decision making to the rallies If he's really Ministry of Health comes out, says hey, we think we got a serious problem. We think you know the effectiveness of these vaccines declined after six months. I think you should go but I dont think that just making up for the help it, I think that you have not got free, basing Pfizer these days, guys think they really mean to stop. So I did those who would not. We gotta check ordinary, next Friday were due to review the data and mice. My speaking fears, if we're going to help us, but by the come by the time, Rules around you'll be seen what breakthroughs amongst senior citizens it probable, don't thank God. I probably won't require hospitalization. In most cases, but people will start to notice ham catching go effect. You started here more anecdotal cases right now:

people who are young, unhealthy, fully vaccinated catch. Go that that's not terrible, usually, but its noticeable, like hey, what's gonna, so I think it's time to start when at the booster sooner rather than later, and that makes me feel frustrated. As I like four perspective, it appears the effectiveness of the fires or vaccine has faded before the EU. Us food and Drug Administration could give that vaccine full approval- that's what's goin on here. So a few points in response. I'd, say first that one thing to keep in mind is that the annual flu vaccine that we get is typically roughly forty to sixty percent effective. So I think we got kind of spoiled by early on at least against the awful therein, and at least early on. We were looking

ninety five percent efficacy, which is really rare but yeah typically year, we don't expect it to be ninety five percent really. Secondly, I think Israel's a unique case and its different from us, because, as Jim pointed out, Miss Turner seems to be. significantly more effective against the very delta and the arm Pfizer in Israel. They almost exclusive they relied on Pfizer, and so I think that there is some special nation that the? U S could end up doing a bit better because of the fact that we have more of a mixed vaccination strategy were not as benefit is dependent on just Pfizer. It also could show why sort of the Delta wave

I'd easily more easily in the? U k them in Israel. where the UK also had Similarly, mixed vaccination strategy on the other point I would make is that some people have speculated that One reason why Madeira is working better is bad though there was a for weak, weighed in between Mcdermott Doses, whereas Pfizer there was only we will wait between doses, and there is some speculation that maybe having the you're system sort of digest the anti bodies and giving it an extra weak may have helped. So if that is ends up being true, it could also make the case for

boosters and that may be waiting six months in having a boost their may help. But with all of those sort of technical arguments being made. I think we have to make the broader case and that the which is the fundamental question we ve had since the beginning, which is the trade off between reducing the spread of the virus and reducing the virus, the thread of the virus to help and reducing the disruption to are individual lives. Both are important right by at so, and I think part of this is that you know it in sometimes in various elements in farm health care. There's this term quality adjusted life years.

Zeke, a man you're famously certain infamously. This is where the whole death panels debate came in because he was talking about with regard You think giving organ donations, how do you want to give an organ to some twenty two year old. They couldn't live, they live for the rest of their lives. If, given the organ or somebody is ninety years old right whose you know I have very many equality years laughed, and so I think there is. some element of trying to think about this with twelve it, because if we knew for six months, you had a locked down or disrupt your lives and then you'd be able to go back to normal. Then you say: ok, maybe it's worth hungering down for a few months, but if this something endemic and were always gonna be. killing now with covert seasons and with surges. Then

How long do you wanna live like this for two years five years ten years twenty years clearly we'd all agreed that at some point the cost of disrupting our lives for that long, is too great and that it's better to take the risk, and so I dont disagree with anything. Jim has my only argument is that its at some point, if we're not talking about you know we're lit relieved that the whole national hospital system is gonna collapse. If we down hunker down, I think that the key,

for just getting on with their lives is very high, and just recognizing that they're just going to be more spread as result. Okay, well before we move on to the light, be political ramifications of exactly that's debate, remove onto a second sponsor which is secure, let's face it, you don't have privacy anymore. Everything you do online from sending emails to messaging, can be scanned and monitored. You're on and data is always subject to potentially undesirable uses by big tech and to secure a new private email and secure instant messaging services As a UK, you are secure.

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has a Google soil election coming up. It has its elections on ideas like new as he. How do you see this affecting be governess race in Virginia, but also be what I suppose, our virginias MID term elections in the two houses covered, probably will be one of the two biggest issue. And their governors, whereas I guess it makes sense and saw a top issue from people when they think about politics, but I also think probably it'll be one of the biggest things in favour of the republican government trail. Glenn young can he's running against Terry Magala before Don't gotta governor who, like us, has an edge ass. He was the governor before I know who he is democratic. Every is probably like. I'm ok, but I think a lot of people in power

its, especially who are longer sender. Kids back to schools are kind of at the end of their when it comes to covert, especially when they ve gotten the vaccine and now there's debates about bingo kids in masks to go back to school and Those are the source of debates where parents might generally leaned the left on a lot of things but day are not where the Democratic Party is raised at the national level on covered how to continue dealing with it, especially in schools, and so, how does this breakdown? You say that so in general are in line with the left in a number of ways, but they're, not whether democratic parties. What's the difference that I think there are parents who are don't agree. They might agree with the last and most political issues, but they don't agree with Joe Biden that we should shut down interstate travel because of corporate or they don't agree with the local school board that maybe we should have to go virtual

on how bad delta gets. I think there's a breakdown between how the National Democratic Party and local democratic officials are taught. not covered in the way parents think it ought to be handled in school because Most parents with kids are more inclined to actually look at the data and see their kids are not at risk and it shouldn't affect their school trips since been amassed, although obviously there outliers and where I live in Arlington, I'm sure it's one of the few places Parents are more in line with Democrats, but the he's going to make us. I think there are a lot of areas where that tend to lean democratic, but we're going to lose democratic parents. If your team The goal of supporting everything that the school boys want to do when it comes to covet Jimmy Virginia entered. You agree with that very much. I think one thing jumps out at me, is that the extent Lester Watch live television. Terrific Aleph is without putting flood the ad adds trying to emphasise that young Kinda Donald Trump to point out. I dont think that works

Also young print is literally running, adds featuring him with poppies and he's talk about how much he loves his dogs. At its users I'll be varied. Missy. Think young kids should not be counted out in large part because Virginia, notably nor the Virginia its indistinguishable from Washington or Maryland? It's starting blue yeah, but you know women hoagie together, Maryland publicly governor and massive. She Republicans can wind blew governors, can wind blew states very often running as a check on a democratic state legislature. And young kids add is adds messaging, are painful, painfully generic that their there do. No soft squishy Like a marshmallow, you just there's nothing there to grab onto MIKE is much people might be. Real. Conservatives will undoubtedly does not really optically inspiring camp. certainly isn't drawing a clear enough contrast. I forget

You don't have to hear that the term call is his own contrast and that I think young king by being the smiling happy we're gonna make us the best state, the country for jobs at you know, maybe that you know he's gonna work, it's not that different will, above all, did in two thousand. I so I think he's got a shot. I think it's a tougher statement was back in two thousand and nine, but I think if it does, it will be no the fire alarm, fire panic sign for the Democratic Party for the twenty twenty for the while Jim says Virginia is not to different from Maryland. That's the, as the view he's ascribing to said since that is the true fell. Where are you? Are you think we're going to see the same political questions plough? Or is it just? You forgot, I think lip Virginia

you could have a shot. I mean if you look at Paul's, it's over, there hasn't been a ton of falling. It seems like right now it's a roughly five point raised and we have seen races in Virginia closed toward the end that situations in which the republic can has been able to your come make it a walk. Closer than it is at the end. So this might really we'd be working out. A couple of points raised, and it really is depends, I think, on schools being the best. issue I want when you say that that that stroll down a bit into that we're not talking about, say mosque, mandates in schools, we're talking about school being open. Yes, yes, let's say I mean because

you're, as I think you, Jim noted various statistics about the transmits ability of doubt there is some evidence in its debate about about whether this is more transmissible to children, which is of course, its distinct from the broader questions of covert that we talked about because more transmissible doesn't mean That is more deadly. However, you could see a scenario. Does you know where use seeing story Is it the outbreaks at various schools that we didn T last year because, statistically more so are open, and if it is true that doubt there's more transmissible, then you could you know you could see a scenario which there some school closures, and they start to do that.

you know, even if their discourse, that are having outbreaks, aren't necessarily northern Virginia dead people in northern region you know those school boards and learn its northern began, you could decide to close. Daring go remote; they could be pressure by the teachers unions to do so. and then you get the sort of closing mass. The argument of the debate at the election becomes about school closures and I think that greatly benefits the Republicans, because Democrats are clearly the more in bed with teachers, unions. What fro school closure party and that's why the the they're trying to make this case

trying to lay the groundwork to blame Republicans for school closures? That's what this mass debate is all about. They're, trying to explain that as republic we wanna keep schools open. That's why we robe requiring, asked, but that's not really gonna be an issue in Virginia specially Northern Virginia. and again you were published its don't need to win norther agenda, but if young king comes, You know to chip away at the margins in places like Loudon and Fairfax, then it becomes winnable. So I agree, and I'd say that clearly, the the odds favouring a coward still by its close enough that year, depending where that what happens with the doubt, the surgeon, whether or not it prompts more closures, I think that in it you know,

Tell the tale of the bear. You know where the reasons that stick with you for a moment fell and ask you to explain this to me. So I hear that America ah more risk averse than republicans think they are calling shows that there isn't some descend to see in parental crusade against mosques in schools, for example, and I also see that in one of the most democratic states in the country, California, state that has a political philosophy, much further to the left of, say Florida or a Texas. The governor is in trouble. He might be

cold and irrespective of whether he is he believes that he might be Rico because Joe Biden and Kemal Harris apparently flying out California to help him. How do we square these two claims? I think that people are I think that it depends kind of on the mitigation measure. It seems that people are much more averse to closures, then to things like mass mandate, but I think that. people start to get worried about when they see mass mandates They worry that they are a precursor to more restrictions, capacity, limits and closures, and so I think that

the reason why I mean. Basically, if you look at the trajectory of Recall Poland, the recall started because there is a huge backlash to the locked down policies of gave a new so that clearly, where the grass roots opposition to Newsome had started, and then it looked like he was gonna survive, as their cases went there and as the it the restriction moved aggressively to lift all these restrictions. But now I think them happening is Newsome, maybe getting it a bit from both sides so that the rise in doubt there is certain, among the ant thy life down people, the the rising costs

it is making them more nervous about the fact that while we ve seen this story before first come the mass mandates, men are gonna, come capacity, restrictions that are gonna come the stay at home waters, and so I think that that their there may be a bit ptsd when you see surging accounts and he might be getting made a bit from the other side too, because You're seminal pro lockdown people were worried that Newsome open things up too early, and maybe they don't ultimately vote to recall him bite it that could be hurting him in the past year. you know at the end of their when cases are going out, people feel like the government's failure and you're. Seeing that with this answers is number it's in Florida, fair enough. If the numbers are going up, people tender

problem with you Alexander. How do you think this is going to play out nationally America's a big place as a range of political opinions? and next year we're gonna have an election in which every single house seats in play bunch of Senate seats. What's Your take on where America will be. I think that the panel for the most part, is going to be for US auto stare, a party issue, I think, obviously there some day, nation from this, but I think it's it's at this point. Something where Democrats are going to have for the most part be in favour of continued stricter policies, whether that's masks for vaccinated people or you know, requiring that since the dawn public businesses, that sort of thing and report We are going to be opposed to that sort of thing, and especially to us or thing coming from the government.

the federal government in particular, and I think I will continue to be a partisan breakdown and something that if, process and Democrats at the national level responding to where they have that's when you make I keep on either side angry and I don't I don't know for sure really where moderates come down, but my senses, if things are are you know, continue to get better our space we get through well done things get better and Democrats, don't ease up matters, more on the side of Republicans on that issue, and I think at the same time This is the kind of issue that's definitely going to affect elections away it affected trump. I think Trump for better, worse got the wrong end of the stick with that? Because there was so much tat he could do and hurt had his re election efforts, but that the pandemic happened a lot of it wasn't. My fault there wasn't anything you can do about it. I think people blamed because he was an office I think I'm not going to have to do without even if he himself is up for election. I think

the Virginia race, for example in California, in some ways those words things our referendum on whoever's and the White House, and when the pandemic is going the way it is if it keeps getting worse and people don't like the way it's being handled their net. Got out on the party, a guy lighthouse, Jim speaking, of blaming politicians in office, the conservative movement, I think, His fat say seems to have decided that for the moment at least, if the next republican nominees. Not Donald Trump, it should be run the centres but run and this has to win reelection first there's no way he could lose re election in a state as important as Florida. Keep the same momentum that seems to have what is your take on his approach, which is something of a gamble in terms of policy he's been fairly moderate he's tried to balance different factions, but his rhetoric has been no one, not doing what

in all these were not following Anthony fancies lockdown strategy, no we're not having mass mandates. This will go away and- and the delta surge is being caused by the two Santa's administration. I think correctly. a seasonal and probably now on its way out. Do you think this is a big risk but he's taking? Or is he really it just right, it's a minimum of moderate risk up until a couple weeks ago round. Dissent is really could make a case that he did one of the best jobs in this when you grade on weaker, a degree of difficulty, is swell that Vermont has kept its case, load so low in its debt load so low, Unfortunately, this data Romani consists of two guys know better Jerry. I exaggerate slightly. at the other. Not there there a bit Europe small rural state, its don't have that many people,

they all cases and deaths are gonna, be lower. That way, it's terrific that the Dakotas and really good for a long while the girl again one of the factors you look at The more spread out your population is the tougher time this virus has jumping from person to person and the people who in urban areas, are gonna just come in contact with more people over the course of the day and thus their more likely to be exposed to the virus. That's why I'm much more worried about the four and a half million vaccinated people in LOS Angeles County then say twenty two thousand and vaccinated people in some of these rural county signal. If you're in NATO's counter your odds of coming to somebody who is on backdated of your if your own vaccinated, you're, running somebody's got the virus is much much higher. Then out in somewhere in America's farmland, but the Florida like if there is any stay the beginning of this really old man, those folks rude UNICEF, Florida its America's retirement gods, waiting room by some measures, measures sex it. This is enough,

were Americans bill when the elderly they live, like the golden girls and its fine, except that people who are most vulnerable to this up until now, recently I think you're dissenters was a bunch if the moment he was saying I don't want. You lie quality, I don't want you local public school district to make them asking decisions. Gunderson busier gunships situation basically he's overruling other people here. You just got just the abstract way of local control, the conservative supposed to believe the government that is closer to the people. like literally physically a geographically and not just you know emotionally and psychologically anymore. It's not me skin off the nose of atypical conservative. If they know the deepest blue corner of Florida decides they want to enact the best met now other just just one quickly on that they argue is that the state is not Fighting think the way it's handing that decision down to a smaller unit, not the school board in this case, but to the individual parent anyhow,

Yes, he is suddenly stood up and made himself Aaron and there are costs associated with them. Yet again like? My sense is that if you have some community, it's got a really bad outbreak or something like that. Local school board wants kids to wear masks. I, that is all the battlefields in the world, that's not where I want to focus my energies that does not strike me as unreasonable, Virginia governor black face said that we're going to have hoods upside fit masks if I ever get in the in school thought. I'd like it's not the ideal, but at least as of now at the sound of me knocking on work Schools in Virginia are going back five days a week, starting later this month, I'd. Much rather have every kid in sport the mask than to have gets not in school, because there is an outbreak in their area or because nervous Nellie parents have decided they can't stand the risk or something like that so my attitude is looked at all the kids back in school and then we can have the argued about mass and if caseload remain low, you could say you know at the kid the kids don't really need to be asked is gonna ridiculous.

but I'm going to say: let us get it, but in fact glass I'm going to re, evaluate every criteria we had over two weeks or so and just yet you done, and if any of you case rate and no indication of any spread in the schools are an optimist, there aren't. There is reason to be worried about. Ok, then give them ass on for two weeks. Was your things go? That strikes me as a much worse the course, and I think he was a little, Heidi bit, autocratic ignorance a little bit like he's, posing for Fox news cameras stuff like that now in the grand scheme it eggs, a country that has governors like enter Cuomo will not for long it gave a new summoned folks at Gretchen, Whittemore, nausea dissent is still looks like head and shoulders about better than anybody else, but he's gonna get some grief over this, and this is not the most. Undeserved, grief, I've ever seen a Republican that Miguel I want with that. We come to the third and final sponsor this way. Thank you to all and Braun

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cause Rich Gregg, now know the time of the average outlets. That's all I'm the time of the show where we pick our favorite pieces from National Review or the National Review website from the last week Alexandra what yours attack is the cover peace from the new Ashraf. Magazine by remember, it's called fighting for life and remit, look at the upcoming Supreme Court case dogs, which could ve well overturn row and Casey and the other nonsense, that's come along with them as just a great history lesson and a great look at what exactly stakes are in this case Phila and what have you enjoy

I enjoyed Carl Smith has a piece tat, the and why stop there? That's a very amusing and entertaining look at the popular argument that we need to tat. People who haven't gotten vaccinated. Jim and salute my podcast colleagues will climb on why the left red needs Rhonda, Santa's, to fail very relevant or less. discussion of Mr Review. One quick segment quote the deep, reason the left is so eager to see dissenters fail it because I dont want to believe that they disrupted but a year of their lives following restrictions that may turn out have been unnecessary. It's come to believe that all other sacrifices, foregoing vacation missing meetings with friends and family, depriving their kids of info, the school masking and so on. Serve the noble goal of saving lives is much harder to accept. That may not have made much of a difference.

It's one observe the but feel fine. I don't agree on absolutely everything that both of us understand that this fundamental conservative truth sometimes like just give you really terrible situations and terrible things happened and there's no easy answers, and you just have to get through it as best you can- and we understand this because we're jets fans am, I pick- is also by Kyle Smith, the left's irrational, covert rage, in which color points out that there are quite a lot of people in this country on vaccinated. The only seems to be palpable anger towards some of them both some of them being conservatives. In fact, it's not just conservatives who are on vaccinated or even disproportionately and backs and ate it and Karl calls this skewed coverage Boring Lee Opportunistic, which is indeed, and now it is time for light items, Jim, even

playing a game of what, if. Yeah. So we are too much fanfare, Marvel Disney, plus unveiled a variety of television shows by the folks who made the marble cinema universe. it miss. I really enjoyed most want a vision I think it's safe to say, falconer winner soldier got preachy Loki was outfit. On category of suitable loved you loved a great but what he is actually differs, animated series at it basically goes back. from a famous moments during their the Boogie series and basically asked what you have things turned out differently. It's based actually on a Marvel comic That, once you know each month would give you some sort of idea of what, if somebody else had gotten this power, what it somebody had lost this battle and one my favorite ones was what if the Punisher had killed the the DARE devil they gonna set off. This grand, war amongst all the New York superheroes. This one was basically what happens if Peggy Carter a K, a captain America's girlfriend. What if she had been given the super soldiers here, and it basically kind of takes all these great scenes,

the first captain. America movie and re imagines things. Turning at different levels spoil anything, but just a lot of bondage, just kind of this rule enjoyable spirit that I think has been missing for some of the more Hetty cerebral and more serious versions of the marble television series so good to ask what? If I can't wait for them? and Alexandria Can you in your DARE devil lifestyle? So famous now this podcast, you ve, been enjoying the library, the new, drawing more precise the little free libraries are enough. These are available all over the country, but here Northern Virginia other proliferating there, these little cardboard boxes with a glass door that people are put out front yard right next to the sidewalk, and I guess they start by filling up with some other books. They won't give away. The motto is: take a book leave a book. So if you walk by and you see a buck, you like you can borrow it- you don't have to bring that book back. You can bring that book back and you can put a book or

or seven up your own that you want to give us in the same little free I very. I was amused to find out recently that some people complain about these because they take business away from the public library to which I say what business it's free. But the event I have really been enjoying using. I found some of my my favorite new books, spy wandering around the neighbourhood and fell I've been channeling, your inner having Costner. Yes, I watched the field, the dreams game last night and it was a year. The outcome wasn't what I would have liked Does a Yankee fan, but you know it's not. Every day you get to see, Aaron Judge head to home run into a cornfield. and I mean, I think it was a sort of great event here or there is a lot to be said:

cynical about in terms of modern sports marketing com, but I think it was fun. I think you know four people. Remember the movie which your maybe viewed by today's standards may be a bit saccharine still sort of about some of the nostalgia about baseball and some of what makes America it. You know what made it the american pastime an average just kind of fun to see Europe There is playing in the middle by weren't a cornfield and it turned out to be an objective. A great game. Even though the outcome was a disappointment for the Yankees, I have been celebrating the end of Ellie Jurassic Park, style thunderstorms, which

rolled in each and every day, for about the last three weeks at almost exactly the same, I am even if they didn't look like they were coming in fact, one day I was so sure that it wasn't coming cause. We had blue skies that I went and sat outside Yeah really happens fast in Florida. When happens, but they're gone, they ve gone, so we now back to our lovely sunshine all day, thank goodness and with that we're done for Another week a quick programming note, Tuesdays episode of the editors has hit a glitch with apple. We know about it, there's nothing we can do about it by Apple is trying to fix it. So if you subscribe via apple broadcasting, your little bit confused as to why tuesdays episode isn't that it's because the apathy didn't update it, probably other than that.

we will be back next week.