The collapse of Afghanistan. I discussed this and only this on today's edition of the errors, rich, Larry and joined is always by the right honorable, Charles CW, W Cook and the scientists and the sage of authenticity, woods, Jim Garrulity. You are, of course, listening to a national view, podcast or sponsors. This episode are secure and stops stamps dot com more about them in due course, felicitous bud. asked on national you'd accommodated? Have you better be easier for you and better for us you made as part of your feed and industry? sources out there since Spotify to Itunes you'd like what you here, please consider giving us a glowing five star view on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said,

anything so Jim Garrulity just stunning couple of weeks and particularly shocking. Several days the government of Afghanistan collapsed on Sunday, the president laughed and no mean many us exit. The Taliban entered Cobb walked into cobble. I I was looking at the twitter feed of a people support a very brave PBS reporter, a woman who showed up in Kabul couple days ago and twitter. All about I'm here, I'm in a cover the battle of Kabul and then she rose, there's gotta be a barrel of cobble they're, just gonna waltz in and you had these whore lying scenes at the International Arab, airport for some reason, named after armoured cars I am in a way it deserves everything named after him and were accordingly Tuesday afternoon and yesterday, with all those just unforgettable images of asked

and literally running alongside a: U S, transport playing cat. into the sides clinging to the wings and a couple them fell to their death, and this exactly, of course, with Joe Biden promise thus predicted very confidently. a little over a month ago would never happen. What you make it. I figure if you're an Islamist, if you are in spiralling terrorist. Sunday, has to be the best day of your life since nine eleven, maybe the day The islamic state was founded, comes as we all know what happened to the islamic state. So all in all this is about this debate. because this is where the grand battle of the war on terror began. This is where the United States, having been punched him. The Jaw nine eleven began its counter attack. We managed to topple the Taliban within about by building by ninety days or so that all flat across the border, two packs and or they were pushing up, daisies and

that was and looking back, probably the apex of the. U S operations in Afghanistan because so much after. That was an attempt to prop up a government that apparent was never meant to be, although I think that you, as he lay out their rich, the reed how quickly it fell apart. Among one of the more fascinating threads on twitter on the past week was one of the guys who is running the Afghanistan Central Bank and he kind of takes you through his week day by day and basically, each day, Yoda minor hub was the next day ten times worse and if it almost like a billion on friday- and nobody else is, let us say- was There- was that clear that quickly from Haider, Clia Other enclosed. A couple to Heyward everybody go. It's gotta be enormously dispiriting to see how few member

chose of the gate of the afghan government, chose to fight. Donnie fled reportedly took like three cars where the cash if living down to the reputation of internal cowardly, and craven leaders other the afghan vice president is trying to organise resistance in some valley out somewhere. So what right and says: there's no one was not quite the case in those guys are still out there trying to fight for what's left of their country. It's not clear that there's going to be much less country? One last thing about: you know: people we knew for a while things were not looking great in Afghanistan. We knew that there is serious questions of heaven, The afghan army was willing to fight. But it did seem like for a long time that, as long as they had our air support as long as they had our intelligence, these guys could do ok biting yank. The air force port around in May when he announced that withdraw surprise. Surprise. When you take it or take the afghan army,

dont have american air support all the sudden. These guys fall apart I have one last detail about that press conference on July eighth find himself was asked. Quite literally quote, your own intelligence community has assessed that the afghan government will likely collapse. Fighting responded that is not true. Then button was ass. Could you please clarify what they have told you about, whether that will happen or not by responded. That is not true. They did not. They didn't did not reach that conclusion. I suppose, if you believe in triple negatives, maybe maybe by signal, but they went on and said they clearly have. The capacity to the government in place. They have the capacity they have the forces they have the equipment. I dont want to see Biden blaming the some bad intelligence earlier is the saying gases is exactly that other scenario that can come to pass and binding. For them before the american people and they always confidence there. The Taliban was not going take over any problem.

Classic the sign. The gods of war have decided to punish the bad administration, for hubris was a statement. secretary of State Anthony blinking in response to some question saying something like well, it's not like the Afghan aren't. They the afghan government being control on a Friday and the Taliban will being controlled by Monday. almost literally how it shook out yet his he's just wrong by by day right got it saddened, last I locked yeah yeah. So Try that the happy talk miserly very much of what happened in Iraq when Obama pulled out is just It is very hard to be honest about this answer, say: ok, we're gonna, pull out and the whole thing like collapse and heap, and I really on care that much with which bind at times that the July AIDS for joy is remembered. Ass Kennedy

sort of imply that but buddy mostly denied it and about the same thing in and by the same thing when they pulled out of Iraq or the iraqi forces that iraqi forces are their train, capable they got things under control and of course he had ices sweeping too to control. and much of the country- and I think parlour Gaza is going on here. Is Afghanistan? Has a robust military culture and its way? Obviously, a war torn country first decades now has a reputation of being fiercely independent in defeating the British to feeding the Soviets now defeating us but it's a surrender culture and when one reason that we would swept aside the Taliban so easily with. Basically, you know some guys on some horses with some precision guided bombs and this this ragtag northern insurgency, the northern alliance, is at once. I'm one sees that the way things are flowing everywhere,

fades away or surrenders earth switching sides and clearly is what happened here start out the provinces and just Europe you're in a town or city and there, the town or city that, ten miles away surrender without a fight. What percentages there for you in fighting and, I think but it's a navy to overestimate. I may have been guilty of this myself, how sustainable The status quo was, but certainly this didn't have to be. The alternative and Joe Biden. Affirmatively shows it. I certainly understand. That leaving was always going to cause some hardship. But I think that's why successive president's who have made a big deal of.

Ending of forever war getting out of Afghanistan have when faced with the intelligence and when faced with. The advice of their generals backed off because it doesn't look great to preside over there. And really, you only have three options. One is too go out there and say it's not going to happen as a lie too is to go out there and say it's not going to happen because you believe it and you wrong three is to say it's going to happen, but I'm care Now, Donald Trump in some ways came quite close to that third option and

though it is not my view and in fact I find it distasteful, it is coherent, but Joe Biden can't do it and he didn't do it. He didn't do it in April, when he announced his decision and his timeline heated. do it in July, at that's press conference and he's not doing it now and so were left and have been left for a week. Now, with these completely jarring mess Yes, on Saturday night, when it was clear, this was going to happen at any moment. I was reading statements by Nancy Policy About how worried she was women in, as in Afghanistan and that she committed to helping them. We can you can't

the analogy that I have drawn over and over again is with North Korea. There is a point at which Not only will tolerate but want router. A realistic foreign policy approach We know what is happening in North Korea. We also know what's happening to the weakest. And we're not going to do anything about it, we're not going to invade North Korea and we're not going to invade China. In other words, we have decided. That is just not worth it Was that the consequences of doing that would be against them national. Interest would be too great to bear an we way. Every day. We accept that. It is clearly the case that getting out of Afghanistan Has led to a power vacuum that was a

gently fell out by the Taliban, but its very difficult for Americans to accept that, given that we were there and its extremely difficult for a price to say it, and so he didn't. Instead, he said now it will be fine and it has been fine and as a result, we ve been left with the worst of all worlds were to remove the final twenty five hundred troops we ve now sent six thousand, rightly We have got the order wrong to the point at which we have ten thousand stranded Americans. We have twenty three, twenty four thousand stranded interpreters, people just for the last twenty years. We have all sorts of stranded equipment, including aircraft, and

you know what whether or not the overall costs were was quietly accepted by the american military in the President of the United States. That part should not have been because it could have been bad. It may have been babbled have happened, but he didn't have to be this bad yes said then, and this is where mega forever war, people have worked worth around too to be very critical abide same time. They still say we had to get out of the so called of war and adds attacking the execution and and obviously has a lot to be said for that you use when you're bugging out over a place get the civilians out, then you get your diplomat south need an embassy stamp out. Then you get your military out and instead No, we did it basically in reverse order and completely unaccountable

and bizarre early surrender. bottom airbases base extremely valuable piece of real estate. Before we had fully evacuated and knowing it might come to this, and our only point of access exit then would be This civilian airport, with one runway and so far, even though the scenes there have been heart rending, it could be much much worse. You, the we ve cut this deal the Taliban. Apparently, Taliban has agreed not to attack the airport. There greater perimeter around the airport purportedly, but it will only take you know a couple guy with five mortars too The runway, create panic and and make it impossible for for us to fly a fixed wing aircraft out of there now maybe I'll come to that. I hope not. It seems that the Taliban, those is playing a pretty shrewdly.

and just as want to poke the bear, as as the bear is is, is leaving you know that they ve once there there's no reason to Fraid any risk of us hitting them back on on the way out. Here I mean, I just can't understand why anybody would watch what's been unfolding over the last few weeks and especially in the last few days is, and their first response be. While of course we all know we need to end for Forever wars and it's a good thing to get out there, and we need to tell you for a long time. If that's cut the talk in point you're going with even if you know I were to agree with that sentiment, which I think is it's a lot more complex than to saying oh forever. Worse are bad thing, but him, and so even if that is your your policy stance. That doesn't mean that had to end like this and after twenty, years of being there, and although the wives that were lost off that know everything that all the sacrifices that America made to be there, that we made to try and Make the situation there better for better or worse than those things have happened, even if people you know you disagree that we

I have been there in the first place or ought to have been there for that long, though sacrifices were made pull out at the last minute, maybe pulling out was indeed the right thing to do, and maybe a lot of people think that- and maybe it was the right time or pass the right time to leave. It could have been It ought to have been done in a different way, in a better way that didn't end like this and the idea that, simply because we're against forever wars or because we need to leave their before it's ok, then it happened like this, or we need to talk about the fact that it happened in this horrible when it could have been prevented with just it seems a bit more planning an effort, but I think it's kind of A ridiculous comment to be making at this time is clearly not the point, and one can believe that it was the right thing to do to leave without thinking that this was the right way to do it. So GM or go talk in more detail about Biden in his speech and as is rationalizations and a segment right after this one

but obviously a factor here was Trump and his peace deal with the Taliban, so called peace deal with Taliban where the Taliban was with. The miser where're we pretended amazingly enough that the Taliban was now and a counter terrorism partner with us who is going to help us fight Al Qaeda. We completely cut the government out of the picture and there some very smart, analyse the guys over a long war journal. Chum Joscelyn is of this point of view that really we up, he thinks we lost in a long time ago, but a keen such a point was was two thousand and eighteen with these negotiations that was the afghan government was knee capped at that moment and the Trump people say well, look you know he didn't actually pull out what you didn t

credit union for all the way out, but you got to stand way down to two hundred and twenty five hundred and to some extent, that these events in motion looking back Trump's election with you know, on the back of rhetoric about forever wars, and he pledged to pull the truth. to bring the troops on real, only ended up, creating a point where there really was no party that wanted to keep a lengthy forth a force in Afghanistan of any major substance for an extended period. Biden might have been considered the relatively establishment pact, but he had made clear. He was every bit as intent getting troops out of Afghanistan to do so. By that point, if you're the Taliban, you don't even need to worry about Biden winning the election. I'm doing by the arrangement you're making Trump, because Biden wants to get the troops out as well, and the thing that I kind of a struck by I don't want to preview too much of it will get into Biden speech in the next segment, but this entire

to suggest that the? U S military in the United States of America S government had no ability to kind of dictate any terms on the ground. In Afghanistan, let's say Joe Biden and in a military experts. you have said, Mr President, this is the beginning of the fighting sees. It will probably be much safer, much better for us to complete our withdrawal, personal. The trial of civilians first and then the military in league. Let's have it eyes with guns. Let's keep them on the ground if the longest period of time, because they're the ones you can shoot back, Let's do it in October: let's do it November, let's do it in December: let's do it at the end of the summer fighting season states at every good. You know at any point Joe Biden could have said you know what we're leaving on September ever eleventh relieving in November where we're leaving the end of November, leaving in December whatever, where it, where the United States of America we ve decided Taliban if relieving Taliban. If you want to fight over this a fight over this, but you're not gonna like it basically Bro throw the gauntlet down before the Taliban and say we will leave on our terms and on our schedule and on we want to not when you pay.

Sure South Lebanon chose not to because bided one to get out, I don't think you really be the message of this entire process. It is we want to get out so badly. We will accept anything, including the Taliban running Afghanistan again, but not the night. When you're anniversary model try a cook s. Questions you on Sunday, when the Taliban took over cobble you were stunned, surprised but not shocked or those what you expect it all. While it was what I expected since Saturday night, about twelve hours prior. I was stunned on Friday to hear people saying that a couple with full by the Sunday death I was not surprised, I guess maybe I'm too much of a pessimist, but as soon as I heard that tromp was making a deal with the Taliban expected. This would happen sooner or later you Jerry

rich. I recently read: the Soviets back regime lasted three out three years after the soviet troops withdrew before they completely collapsed, and the events of it became a thousand government took over the fact that our could last twenty four hours yeah. I was surprised yeah, I'm gonna go with surprised, but not shocked. China figure on this absurd when we had next a question about whether the government would last pass the end of the year, as I believe was Jimmy deem them. and me, and we also would fall for the end of the year. I think anybody might have been most emphatic about it following very soon

I was surprised that I did think they're just be. You know who take a couple months, at least, but you had just a day by day circling of the drain, and it's very depressing with that. Let's hear from our first boss, This episode secure, let's face it, you don't have privacy anymore. Everything you do online from sending emails to messaging can be scanned and monitor. Your online data is always subject to play. the undesirable uses by big tech enter secure, a new pray an email and secure instant messaging service. That's s e k. You are secure with his own servers and data centers locate in Switzerland, the country with the strictest data private, he lost in the world secure shields its users from big time, Prying eyes secures create proprietary encrypt

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See do it now go to secure dot com today to make surveillance by big tech a thing of the past that s e k, you are dot com, he's the promo code national to get twenty five percent of the first twelve months, secure dot com. Please check it out so Charlie Biden has been hold up a camp David during most of this or deal their release the picture. I guess was on Sunday him sitting alone at a conference table looking at a couple screens looking very agent and not particularly dynamic. Then he traveled returned to the White House and gave a speech to the nation yesterday afternoon where he said the buck stops with them, and then he proceeded to

blame everyone else from the trumpet ministration to the afghan army. What do you make of it? I thought it was absolutely prophetic. I thought that it was one man, fifteen minute repudiation of for the lies that he ran for president spearing, and I thought it was a reminder that I'm not trump is fine. When the question is, should we vote for not tramp tramp? Partly more people wanted not Trump and Trump, but it's not re programme. Joe Biden is ass. He has always been an incompetent man, not particularly intelligent man, and especially floor on the question of farm

but the worst part of it was his total unwillingness to take responsibility. I agree with almost everything you said about Donald Trump role in this. We can also assigned blame to George W Bush to be members of Congress, fitting Joe Biden who voted for the war in the this place. We can assign some blame to Barack Obama, but Joe Biden is President now, He's the only man whose president now these Citizens are his. He over his generals, which is fine,

is constitutionally mandatory if he thought they were wrong, because the military is subordinate to the civil parent should be, but he took. This decision was not, as he said during the speech. Donald Trump stewing Donald Trump came to an agreement with the Taliban, and Joe Biden changed it, as is his prerogative. He was not violating some congressional statute, he was,

extending its powers under the constitution, he was doing his job and when Joe Biden said, I stand squarely behind my decision. That should have been the focal point of the speech, but it really wasn't, he pointed quite quickly to Donald Trump and imply that his hands had been tied for they happen. Donald Trump original withdrawal date was the first of May. Of course, these troops were not withdrawn. On the first of May, they were withdrawn. In July and August, President Biden made a host of changes to trumps plan and the replacement that he came up with was wholly inadequate, and you can tell if you read the speech

which is a much more effective way of grasping its meaning, rather than watch it that this was written to try to square the circle that simply can't be squared. Joe Biden boasted in April and in July that he was the one taking this tough decision on his timetable and explained why now he doesn't want that to be the message Joe Biden started. His speech sounding like Donald Trump talking about America's national interests being streaming Arab, but ended, saying that the cornerstone of american foreign policy should be human rights and that the

it states militarily of necessary would intervene to uphold those rights. Joe Biden said that every contingency had been planned, and then he said that they were shocked that day. been overrun so quickly This was a mass, because Joe Biden Approach to this is a mess. Now true that the american People's approach for this is a mess as well, but the american people elected Joe Biden to make decisions and I say leader- you have to make a decision, even if the electorate is divided and I think what we saw yesterday was a man who has vacillated who's been indifferent. Frankly, especially on, for example, securing passage interpreters and who is now realizing

He is monumentally box this and that it is incumbent upon him to ensure that a little of the fall out as possible, attaches to him, but it really was disconcerting to see the president of the United States start. I sang I stand by my decision- is a tough decision, I'm so brave and then blame everyone else, the afghan army, essentially cool, cowardly, Donald Trump, who didn't take this decision. Previous president's and not himself so that we have very tough editorial about the speech with the more I think about it. I think it should have been tougher and I think one of the best political points trump Sorry Biden has, in his favours just say: look these guys melted away. What are we supposed to? Do they didn't? They have the will to fight. We shouldn't have to provide the will for them. I think that has some political appeal,

but the idea that the afghan army just just flat out on wine, the fight is just not true, and the untruth of it and falsehood falsity of his improved for years. You know we took a step back, to the support role and twenty fifteen the afghan army took the lead in combat operations and has seen a more than fifty thousand casualties scene of children action to show for it. and vine said? Why? How could I possibly melt away? We ve, provided all these really important thanks to them, including air support and logistics and maintenance. Yet, but why didn't mention earliest underline or emphasise, is the thing. Pulled away and the the win It was the foundation of the afghan army that that's how they're supposed to operate as with closer support from us and with logistics and maintenance from us. That's the way we built it. It's like you know, putting together a car and in pulling off

last minute a wheel and saying oh, my gosh. What's wrong with this vehicle, it won't drive, of course, not if you ve, taken up I'll keep part of it and then that this is what is really as I think, about more about this shocking. He blamed the afghan government not negotiating better with the Taliban, when the Taliban was clearly negotiating in bad faith. Had no end listen really negotiating. It was entirely focused on military victory and the last Several months has been, steadily, marching towards cobble the idea that what does the Afghans this was to do in Doha to stop that from happening. The such a surrender you know and that that's ultimately it wouldn't surrender in Doha Earth the surrender the way, the way it happen and then finally,

I'm not sure. I need to go back and look at it carefully. That there's one harsh word about the Taliban in this. The speech that blames everyone else does he blamed the town. Then they didn't have to lie to us. They dont have to rape women. They had to beat a brutal, radicals who cooperate with terrorist. It is our but on bridge, but a moral outrage over that. If there is, he didn't show me and I think, you're right return didn really noticed anything about that mentioned. He didn't. He barely even talk about. Neither just absolutely heart rending in horrible scenes that we ve seen, but I think it's frankly appalling that he was gone out of the public eye for what, for straight days, showed up when he finally agreed to show up and say anything at all, didn't take questions and his entire speech, as you say, was a laundry list of blame for everybody other than himself. There is no Europe there's a class

Ok, the buck stops with me, but that doesn't really mean anything when you go on to explain how everybody others than new is responsible for what happened. It's as if they sat down. And his team sat down and thought of every possible talking point that would splain in some way how somebody other than him and his administration and the decisions they made or the things they didn't prepare for was at fault somehow any possible stretch. That could made as to how someone else might be blamed, and then he just said them all, and that was that was his explanation of why things, happen the way they did and then that wasn't. That was all he had to offer. The idea that the president and design stir of this scale only has blamed for other people, primarily his political opponents, to offer interest absurd it. It makes me scared for the country honestly to have someone like that in charge. He clearly has no willingness to take responsibility for what he ought to have done differently,

Of course, there was never going to be perfectly smoothed bought of Afghanistan. It wasn't going to be some wonderful situation, however, you cut it if we are going to pull back but, like you say there is a way to do it. That was like this, and just saying you know what we are supporting them. Why can they do it themselves? Is not enough of an explanation as to why we didn't get out if they are properly, and I start. An explanation as to why there's fifteen thousand Americans, or whatever the number is now stranded there, because we didn't have a plan for getting them out so none of it. I do not find any of his exploration satisfactory in it honestly came across it s very heartless yeah. I just can't be emphasised enough. Just cobble falling Taliban taking a raft, Ghana stand accused twenty year. Conflict is a crisis, But but we have an ongoing emergency and Afghanistan, involving our own people, put aside the poor Afghans who risk life and limb to help us over the years on the assumption that it, if it came to this, that we would help them

Our own people are on the wrong side of the line outside the airport and is not clear those any plan to to go, get em so Jim that the speech what What are your thoughts rich? I have a slight quibble with what you said and what Charlie said I would agree that Joe Biden is still the President United States technically, but he's not really there. This. We have been through a while. All of this was happening this you know fry to Monday. Just absolute, you know collapse of the afghan government. Joe Biden was not seen in public at all other than war. Photo sent out by the White House, Twitter account that showed Biden Talking to tell conference, screens labelled CIA and Doha station wagon I swear I so guy scope of really salute your attention to detail. Whitehouse communications office for not blurring it out or cropping it out, or anything like that very weighty goggins. Now then

you're not saying anything for four days when was completely clear that we had a catastrophe right up? There was Saigon right up there with the bay of pigs bite and went from back from Camp David to the White House, where he listlessly red. Tell a speech offer teleprompter for twenty minutes. Of course he took our questions and then he immediately return to Camp David. He had no events on his schedule today, however, today enough skirted biologic Sylvan did say that Biden had not spoken with any foreign leaders since the fall of Kabul, and I went back and check on the White Ass website. As far as I can tell biting last interaction with a foreign leader was August. Ninth with Prime Minister sugar of job of Japan, commending him on the successful hosting of the winter Olympics some of the games now Biden is supposed to talk to your stuff monopolise on Wednesday. I noticed that when binds really, indeed beauty, he chooses a former Clinton administration official to be as interviewer but like what is biting do all day.

What is he doing when we can't see him because it ensures that doesn't appear to be anything related to Afghanistan? What does What is being done in the poor Jake solving a thrown out there, for every Blake and gets out their Saki was taken. It everybody's gettin grief about this, because this minute, this that was an absolute failure. And we're gonna know the reason binds not out there and requested this list It means a lot of what actions at about Afghanistan with July eight and everything you said, turned out to be false, so we come to know the deep down this status and trust him to do this, so they have to give him a script. was hastily thrown together and mostly could tell was written by the political people. It is not written by the policy because it didn't bother trying to defend how this withdrawal was going to need. Withdrawal was utterly indefensible. It was a blame for our. It was simply casting accusations, excuses and in our eyes set on Twitter.

The other is a terrible explosion. When the gas lighting hit all the straw, men were in the room, it was, it was absolutely appalling. Buffeted table a bull crap that was actually complete literally to their situation on the ground, and I think that in which we should point out is considering how to sky built. You ended up in the White House because his name wasn't Donald Trump. There was a very Donald Trump speech. In the end, Jim Creature, put it very well in the and Joe Biden he likes countries adopted captured the worst pop for me was the total unwillingness to engage with his critics on the merits of what they were saying, which was You must this up, and that was a criticism that has been levelled across the political spectrum when you have Jake, Tapir and Mitch, Mcconnell

and tumbled Trump, all saying the same thing it. Maybe it's worth responding. And he didn't he set at one point. I am left again to ask those who argue that we should stay how many more generations of America's daughters and sons would you have me send to fight Afghanistan, civil war, but most people are not even addressed the question of whether we should have stayed in the long run there asking why we grounded there in the middle of a fight they're asking why we remove the military before ten thousand american citizens and a whole bunch of military assets for extracted they're, asking why? Having answered questions about it in April, there was still no plan to get out the afghan interpreter

they're, asking why we have handed over thousands of prisoners be spent twenty years rounding off their asking why we ve A bunch of sensitive information lying around these. These are the immediate questions. The arbitrary as a matter of rhetoric and putting his best his best and trying to make the case he just couldn't. He just couldn't eat could engage in those there's. No answer absolutely no good answer or any of those questions, are, you sure, did you probably did not at the hawks yeah yeah absolutely, but having done it that that that's not part of it going to try to defend. Why think that just underscores what's disaster? This is then. Hell yeah, of course, he's not going to stand up and say you know what thinking about up wrong about with every foreign policy question in forty is to buy, but this does

straight there were each head of his hidden, defensible, Cezanne it. There is Cotter darkly, hilarious, political peace, political Europe, peace that part on Twitter today about how Europe now realises that binds. Not a foreign policy change has hit a fake news. Flash Yet there are a lot of never pursue or or heavy trumped sceptics who thought this is kind of upside abiden it was serious about restoring our standing in the way all. That is the whole problem with that theory, though, is when, when a Democrat comes in office, to restore our standing. It always involves catering to white opinion in Europe as a key element of it. Another element of this counter to tromp would be just saying the correct and truthful things about Vladimir Putin, but after that yet a progressive foreign policy mixed in with

binds fallacious poor judgment men demonstrate in these matters decade after jacket, anybody who thinks that the joke, I'm actually foreign policy expert, is disputed, probably best case scenario, their response, to tell themselves that, but I think especially as we ve seen with us. This is amazing, Bob out. If you wanted Biden, because he wasn't tromp on foreign policy, the main actual action he's taken other than meeting with people maybe saying nicer stuff publicly than Trump otherwise would have said that he's followed through on exactly what Trump wanted to do in Afghanistan too great to our great detriment. So we actually had didn't end up being very different from I'm off so Jim. I thought one of the most pathetic moments in the last week or so, and there are a lot of them were, was that when Zau Hello is add that an why today, I believe the envoy to the negotiations and that he'd negotiate trumps deal is a whole over and Jen, Saki or both warning the Taliban, they they

really don't wanna take over Afghanistan by force, because if they do that, then we'll be internationally isolated, lacking a fight. The Taliban there's an Wanna, wasn't gonna, be true, you don't you had a delegation immediately flying tell bandeau delegation immediately fine to Moscow and it turns out Biden himself might be more internationally isolate if he hasn't talked any other former leaders at the moment in the tell Dennis, in other words, the AP, your access or political. But somebody had said that college and another Biden representatives in Doha with quote around, remember the wording quote we're trying to talk some sense into the Taliban Unquote and in over and do it through the Taliban. Just how much sense do you think you're gonna to

in turn. The idea, like international, scorn, international disapproval. We were bright with respect to this part cast. They know these guys. You throw acid in the face of school girls it these guys, don't care by international disapproval. They ultimately to use a oft off repeated phrase unless double yours. The cruelty is the point when it comes the Taliban. They don't care if the world doesn't a preventive care if they are who they are and its with baffling is I mean I remember back in two thousand twelve when Mitt Romney was running for president and he was scoffing at the notion in negotiating the Taliban and everybody from David betray us to Morocco. Mama every foreign policy tool bar was the only way we and are involved in Afghanistan has negotiated settlement. We can get the Taliban the back to the devastating table? This can work. This can work. There is a huge difference between all kind which killed three

and of our citizens and the guys who are running a better wrecks of reckless for them, the totally different there there there deodorant, not everything. There is not much of a difference in their lot The studies are over Afghanistan over the last few decades have said so. borderline, they intermarry fish resources, they fight the same battles. so each other very top. Two separate Al Qaeda from from from the Taliban. Him beyond matters a Hackney group beyond that there's ISIS guys who ended up over there all kinds of islamist extremists. Just you know swarm over there with the Talibans welcome how you delete the communication indication the last few decades, the town A ban has woken up, smell the coffee and set out. We want to see that we can interact these guys anymore. We he's, got rid of enlightened look without left us now they ended up continuing their there. Every

the same ones there telling CNN on AIR Jihad will continue around the world. There is no indication that this, how a band of changed where they are, and yet because it was hard, an enormous amount of the EU s foreign policy community, convinced themselves or not. I have the brilliance. I have the ability to convince them to see reason I can get them to come around, I'm just that persuasive. I have, as the Obama administration later path themselves in the back over it. We have mastered the art of smart power and look where we are. yeah this the targets and also make this point. Assistance is key disparity here that we were fighting to negotiate. We are fighting eventually to cut a deal with the Taliban around a negotiating table where the Taliban was always fighting to win, Charlie Exit,

question to you letter grade on binds Afghanistan speech from eight f shockingly powerful from start to finish. When the government ass an, I might have Dundee minus, but he was also lay some monastic with community who are termed paper. I would not read it for the top I would set on fire I get it. I gotta be a generous greater compared to my my colleagues here. give it a d, because I just think, as is the just a moment ago, did just the facts and the brothers there's nothing to be said for this, and he made The best argument that it possibly could make now dishonest, evasive and euphemistic because it had to be cassettes I had, but I think you are there, some points in that speech.

Will land with with people, especially descent. I see well, we been there twenty years. Five present scene of Oregon handed off to another. One would have decided over this conflict and they they melted away after we gave him all all this aid. I think that that is those points. To get get people nodding. You know that there are watching at the bar, but otherwise horrible speech and even worse policy outcome without us, Bosnia from our second sponsor this week, stamps DOT Tk were all delighted that life has been reached turning to norm all things like on the sea in a movie and hang out with friends and going in the restaurants, and going to the Post office. Ok, some parts, normal life aren't so great, both stamps dot com. You can skip trips to the post office and save on postage stamps dot. Com brings the same

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and a digital scale, no long term commitment or contracts just gonna stamped. I can't click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and typing editors: the stamps dot com, promo code, editors, stamps, dot, com, please, check it out Suzanne. One of the points made and fair of this withdrawal. Is the polling supported but as always a bad idea to try to do your foreign policy based on polling, because, as we are discussing a while ago that the point can shift and public adamant on foreign man riskin, oftentimes, be complex and a little contradictory, and lo and behold, People might have wanted to get out and Afghanistan in theory, but early indications are, as you would expect, they didn't want to get out this way and they don't like what their seeing and they don't like the humiliation of this area, we consult poor, they think had a plurality

so in favour of the withdraw. I think the poll was conducted, maybe Saturday through Monday, as things are falling apart. Forty nine percent but way down from that. I think of sixty nine percent approval. Last time it asked a question. and that relatively high number bullied by partisan tribalism. A Democrat still saying this is a great idea had a tree. Fowler Pole that had a much lower, maybe thirty nine percent approval. Maybe the phrasing was different, but what do you think of this year? Politics of this, Not I have to imagine that Biden, his team were so gung HO about pulling out in this way or ice. Now in following through on trumped. You didn't have to do it this way and he's talked about it. Ass, though, because Trump initiated there. Suddenly he will stress bound into following through and so its transport, obviously not true, and so he made them decision he and his advisers us both made the decision To do this. I have to think the main reason for that.

one of the big reason says they thought it would be popular. They thought it would be helpful. go on optical win, but I think, if that's one of the main drivers behind a decision like this, the key thing to do would be to do it in a way where you keep public opinion on your side, and I sure? It's true that at least in Some narrower most Americans were sick of data Henderson, I suppose, or or thought we needed to think about getting out not being there indefinitely but seems like generally a popular sentiment but you're going to then be the guy who goes ahead and does it you'd better? Do it in a way where people are going to be watching videos of dress absolute desolation as you leave the country right like there's, there's gotta be a way to do it. Where you keep those people on your side- and I think that way was probably there Why don't you don't know enough to say exactly what by not to have done that he didn't, but I have to imagine that the justification of doing it because most of the country would like you for having done it is gone now. He didn't you didn't do it. I went, I think. Probably people are

a lot more angry at him than they would have been had, he said you know, we'd better stay there longer and make sure we leave the right way. I don't think that's an issue. That's gonna make or break Democrats at the poles or make or break Biden our people's opinion of button. But something like this. I think that a disaster like this is so Charlie. I think to worry. They have to have is just how indelible that tarmac image is, and it is one thing to have this truth scandals. Units is one thing to have a scandal on paper and there's. Some documents is another thing to have an audio or video or a picture attached to it. instantly, makes it much worse. Politically makes it much more vivid for people I just don't think anyone is ever gonna forget that image and I don't think it sinks binds administrate by any means, but if there's something else that

he handles poorly that sport was out of control. This will stand for it. That image will stand for all stand for what's happening at the border, stand. Firm disorder in the cities will stand for a president out of control a president who is not in control of events and that that's something, no president should one and in about a week when he comes back to Washington and start saying emphatically, to worry about three and a half trillion dollars worth of spending right, adding to the inflation with that's, never going to happen. Any republican candidate, I hope worth his salt is going They are really thank you very much for your emphatic assurance. Mr President, we have just seen how that worked out. I think tat.

these sorts of disasters tend to hurt politicians. The most when they reinforce existing conception. Now, I'm not quite sure what that is with Biden. I think

might become that he's the doddering old man who creates chaos wherever he goes, but certainly the Democratic Party has a great deal to lose her over the next few years, because the way in which it has spoken about this, not everyone. There have been some admirable exceptions and indeed has been quite interesting to see how the press has come down harshly and how moderate Democrats have been willing to criticise the president. But the Democratic Party, at least for a centre of gravity, is talks stupidly about everything it is democratic Party that is obsessed with language and that cannot get out of the Harvard symposium mode and listening to Nancy Place. You say the Taliban,

must know that the world is watching its actions. Listening to transact, He say the Taliban has to make an assessment about what they want, their role to be in the international community. The correct way France is still alive and, I suspect, Taliban knows this, incidentally, which is why it told the Associated Press over the weekend that it was going to format open, inclusive islamic government was paying them at their own game. It doesn't take too long before a party that talks like that gets a reputation for being out of touch for being ridiculous for lacking the harsh by now. sorry to exist and profit in the real world, and I suspect that come next year.

It will not be this alone, but hurts the Democrats, but it will be this plus inflation plus critical race fairy, plus a newly belligerent China, plus debts and deficits that have skyrocketed by design, and I think it may well lead to people in the metal same virtuous, thereby ridiculous come back to earth and that that's the risk. It's not that a sizeable proportion of the population is going to say why tuned out all of the other debates around the mid terms. I just I just can't forgive him for Afghanistan. Can you know, I think the real love we can figure out. The political legacy is an end. The bite administration is not so subtle live in cinemas,

ignore that they think Americans do really care about Afghanistan that in the end, we stops care thinking about it, probably shortly after of bushes. Second, her american women have any casual. Is we have not acted like a country at war for a very long time you now american insular or not big. Attaching ok, look. We went there because the Taliban were hosting fighter nerves on belong is dead and he probably make the argument that the last for five years or so there has been this long awaited shift in public consciousness. Where I live apple, nine, eleven anniversaries, we're gonna have the strange failure. We don't spend a lot of time. Thinking about islamic terror, anymore we killed him later. We was initial fight against outside of the invasion of Iraq than they ignore the killing of Bin Laden, the right basis, which was a very bad development and lead to attacks in Orlando and San Bernardino in places like that, once these long state got crushed. There was kind of this since they have been.

Instead in Zaire. Curiously, more up in the mountains. The issuing these think deserve videos and statements, but only seems affected him more. The world did not fear is lamas terrorism in a kind of the way it did In say the Bush years and in the Obama years that we stay our attention to other real, genuine threats, whether Russia, China, North Russia, IRAN. There is no shortage of real genuine thanks to worry about. We didn't worry about some, that job suicide bomber, showing up our workplace and blowing the plaza. I dont know what the moods gonna be on September eleventh this year. I can't imagine it's gonna be all at celebratory. Knowing that the Taliban is running the show in Afghanistan. Once again, I think will be a much p, wonder if we're ready to go through this all over again and the real measure of this will not come. This year ago, in twenty twenty two it'll come in twenty twenty three you'll come in twenty twenty four. If the Taliban goes back into the terrorism hosting business and whether the terrorists who end up coming in Afghanistan report

genes agencies already there is great enthusiasm, monthly islamist extremists, chat boards of the world to say: hey can't wait to get Afghanistan. So the interesting question. As the surprises love, I wish any Mccarthy disbursed to the wall cool man, because when you talk about these sorts of things, is the exact coming out. What am I gonna end up right back where we were on September tense with this mentality Ghana stand being a terrorist haven and some next belonging to point out showing up and saying ethically and bells and directing attacks on Americans all around the world. So Jim. What do you think of the inter conservative fight over this and was discussed slogan earlier? Where eat you have the more isolationist or at least anti interventionist, populist right, saying, see we told you have Ghana stand was huge mistake us, you know basically aping binds argument we get out in here. They collapse in a matter of about a week

spent billions of dollars tens of billions it ours, propping up the afghan military? When we had all these generals constantly showing us, the afghan militaries is capable and strong, and will we be able to stand on its own? so our leaders lie to us and are in carbon it and are our world you as populous anti international who hate all this stuff has been vindicated by this catastrophe that there is a strong indictments to be made of several ministrations. Probably the part that mobility. The part of that argument that is most troubling is the argument that, for the better part of two decades, our own government agencies, the Pentagon State Department, arguably intelligence, community, all kind of were lying to themselves are all fooling themselves into believing the afghan government was stronger than it really is because all good form,

decision making relies on good information and the promise, if you're lying to yourself. That's not that's not an enemy, that's not anybody else. You made the decision to pretend your allies are stronger than they were beside province rock and I wondered lack yes. Afghanistan is an absolute crush country. Business soviet invasion, not stuffy. Look at like Turkmenistan is right next door to just answer. Extort those countries back stand as new. Not for those countries are not enormously different from Afghanistan and their relatively stable throughout a hosting hurt terrorist attacks or not,

enemies of the United States, there not seen as these black holes or these tower of Babel or or Pandora's box, where constant trouble keeps kept give emanating from it. So if other countries around them can be stable and its annual, if not protein, knows United States nervously western democracies, but simply not being incubators for international terrorism. Why would it be so hard for Afghanistan to that? And let's observed that if the Taliban had made the decision to turn over some Bin Laden back in September October, two thousand one? We would not be in this situation- would never had a quarrel with them. Our entire quarrel with them stems from the fact they said he killed. Three thousand of our guys and there's that attitude was take he's our guest. You can't touch him one thing: there's been complaints about experts and how wrong experts are in and yes, we should always be suspicious of experts in illegally in many examples of it throughout the pandemic, but have say on this: withdraw all

exports of saying: don't do what you're back. He thought it would become a collapse. If not in days or weeks, certainly within me there was a jack dumford of former general. Let it go, mission. You can't get any warlike anymore. Experts then anymore, expertise. They're, not a blue ribbon commission and it is good Please don't do this and it was those Biden and his ball headedness that was responsible for this. expert advice has ignored at all in this case. In the end, a lot of this stems from the fact that binding was absolutely This ought really unusual reports of Biden being adamant about this date. radically, making things like it know, not the life of my son to fight for women's rights in Afghanistan, stuff like that in a dish to all the other problems and binds performance I've. Let me point out: there

are cases in which he really count lashes out at somebody in there's this. You know temperamental, listen, I'm gonna stop. It strikes me as fair to ask just how much careful thought went into this decision or whether this is but Jacket by Jim Chequered exit question to you this last week and Afghanistan and what might be a had. Never gonna stand what debt Joe Biden, reputation for the next six months through twenty twenty two through twenty twenty four forever. I think forever. This was a disaster, and again it is up to that. One can separate from the broader geopolitical question and the will be separated in Americans.

mine's death. Now I think that the transfer of Erasmus grants us forever. Even if it's not. You know that. I think that that tanks him forever politically, I think people remember eight preference actively Jim very thing. Any image for the bottom presidency is going to be more vivid and memorable than the images of those guys falling from the plains So now the sticks abiden wherever yet fairy can preside over the sort of catastrophe are not just preside, I mean causing erected, make it worse as president, I states, without it being part of your legacy, Forever, more so with that's, let's hit a few other things before it girl Zan on a much lighter interior. No, you been harvesting tomatoes. have finally- and I can't members- I had brought the serpent upon us before about a friend

gave us a tomato plant at the beginning of summer and started out fairly easy to grow this kind of granite tone and then down on the how desperate you're for this material I'm shocked. You had brought that. That was why we got a tomato. where from a friend this week as a huge that I'm on a cigar surprised. I had mentioned already, because it was a big moment for us, but in vain, I kept alive for while it's been looking pretty sad for the latter. mothers who, for various reasons I won't get into, but the joyful news. The light news is that it has produced some actual tomatoes on marred by disease or animals harvested them, and they take great It is worth all the effort, America my dad once you're a phase of growing or trying to grow tomatoes in and the backyard in this wonderful when it works, is obviously.

A brush. But I just remember: there's is so hard to keep bugs often are achieved something from eating them. It is it, as is always something with a tomato plant, but worth it. Jim Gary, you ve been enjoying a product from one of our sometimes sponsors and exchequer. Indeed, and if people are wondering why does Jim always call rich Gregg, whose five years we can take a pod, Casper Great Rumpus, a radio, american, three martini lunch and Yes Exchequer is also a sponsor. The three martini lunchbox ass, they said: hey, would of you guys like up try next year and after I'd, elbowed Gregg out of the way and shoved him away from the computer and suggest by like one will govern its. The government has taken you, I know, but you have a car. The data really comfortable chair this past week with all of the massaging. you dad's cuz, I don't know, but you it's a little bit of a stressful week, little bit of bad news. Little notes

Gets us and I fully endorse what there and that by the wager listeners is why, when Mental, auto pilot. I keep calling which Gregg, Charlie speaking of joyful tidings, use your seventh wedding. That's right yesterday, my seventh wedding anniversary and them. two to someone I met at and are actually quite soon after I started sir. He up texted that to my parents along and they said you if the three decades on you- and I thought why would you Basically newlyweds, when you put it like that, but term still remaining seven years, but that Microsoft regulations s wonderful, so it turns out, I'm a terrible hypocrite, because after marking Zan several observes in a row for travelling to

places the United States with burgundy. At the end, I've done it myself. I went to Newberg New York, worried washes headquarters, it is there and it it's just It's one is too so cool to just be someplace. Where George Washington, you know big George Martha. They were a slut there You know they ate and is also virtuous mansion and Newberg that this house and you decisive, stunned, he's eighteenth century. under a lie them. This is supposed to be big deal would be a shack. I mean there's a shack by today's standards, but on a beautiful spot on the Hudson and Newberg is one of the sea. It places in american history, one it most. Consequential events in american history happen there, where wash in turn talk down an attempted coup by distance added soldiers have legitimate reasons to be discontented with Congress, but

Washington was appalled at the store, asked and totally outraged by any talk any disobedience. Congress or marching on Congress in in famously he gave this talk to the assembled. Troops who, when he pulled out a letter and took out his glass to read the letter and said you know I have grown, not just gray, but nearly blind in your service. You wasn't a dry, I in the place and they They have glasses. but they are the glasses I don't whether those glasses still are anywhere if they are that there, the most important I glasses and american history the desk isn't actually his is working despot. Who is a desk that he did did use at times elsewhere?. Wasn't a dusky used at Newberg and the chair at the desk, though what was in the house?

at the time any anyway and amazing thing I am now convert. I recommend people going into all sorts of american cities with the ending bird with that Stiver ETA respects Jim Gary, what's your pic Andy Mccarthy, We have knocked around President Biden on this podcasting deservedly so, but it is an undeniable fact. Biden was put in this situation in part because of the agreements of the trumpet Ministration and Animal Party just be now gives us a much needed history, refresher, unjustly slams, the trumpet ministration just gonna concluding history is not so easy to purge. It will hold president bite into account as it should, but it will not forget the President Tromp was an enthusiastic accomplice in wonder how hard he and his allies strained to do.

Since themselves from the unfolding calamity yeah, I want you to know the great peace, justice and readers about our notice, but any such a calm as he season Guy and that that was a peace that was as it had to be written and handed it really good job with their. What's your pic. My pick is a peace by senator bans, ass that we had on, and our yesterday called worse than Saigon, again hammering Biden on this absolute disaster. I thought he made some very good points. Troy I have enjoyed both thereby editorials on Afghanistan sort of interesting on this, because the topic is one on which there is a great deal of disagreement on the rights, and there is a great deal of disagreement at an ah. I think, but it shows you just

how perfectly President Biden treated this, because I think pretty much everyone here read both of them and said yeah, that's that's what happened so my pig S, jams, jolt, the Bible illusion crumbles to dust just excruciating and detailed take on binds atrocious spy each from Monday and just reminder how, if he don't subscribe to get the morning jewel and you're in box, you are missing every morning a grey, take. Sometimes it's hyper news. It usually is hyper news agenda, not not all the time, but. Whatever it is. It's a really solid and detailed. Take that you can learn and profit from every single time. So that's it for US

listening to an ash review part Gaston Ribaut cash retransmission account this game without expressed written permission of national magazine is strictly prohibited. Despotic ass of a breeze by the incomparable. Sarah surely makes a sound better than we deserve fake, I thank him thanks design and thanks to secure and stamped dot com and thanks, especially doggie all listening reactors and we'll see you next