On this special edition of The Editors, Rich discusses the state of American education with Matt Frendewey of Yes Every Kid.
The Editors is hosted by Rich Lowry and produced by Sarah Schutte.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This fall. Students across the country are facing new challenges: families, are facing renewed hardships with some scheme remaining entirely or partially closed and, as a result, its time to rethink how we fund education, it's time to fund students and families, not systems an institute? since a growing coalition of more than seventy organizations. From across the country have come together at fund every kid dot com to urge, we re prioritized the way in which we fund education by prioritizing funding students. First Europeans are living through a phenomenon No one living in this nation has ever encountered and as a nation,
lt on ingenuity, we can confront the schooling crisis by re, imagining education and putting resources into the hands of families to enable them to pay for needed online courses, devices, tutoring, extracurricular activities, learning pods micro schools or tuition at the local public or private school. We need to give parents the financial resources to ensure every kid can receive an education that meets their needs, especially during this pandemic. If you believe that we should be funding kids and families, and not systems and institutions learn more by signing our petition at fund every kid dot com.
How have schools fail? during the current crisis, and what can we do about? It goes. Ask all that, and more on the special sponsored edition of the there is another flaring up joint for this episode by Matt Friend away vice president of the organization. Yes, every kid you, Nay, to and an hour podcast irregular schedule programme and will reach and soon, if this aspect, ass. A nasty review dot com were delighted to have you better, be easier for you and better for us if he made as part of your fee. The industry. Monsieur sets out there from Spotify, too, Itunes, like what you hear here, please consider give assent, glowing five star view on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said anything so mad thanks, so much being with us. They think, rather beyond, so. What is yes every kid you have everything
is an dedicated to supporting every child potential and every child's pathway to receiving a great education, and this held organization. Just over about a year and a half. Now we really came together. Recognising that a lot of organizations in that case, world are dedicated a kind granting one specific model, they support public schools, sport, private school sport charter schools and too often try to more people in the camps. Yes, every kid wants to revisit. The conversation really focus on what's best for every student, absence of a specific model and then enable them to have the opportunity to attend what whatever. Well, whatever that education experience looks like it's best to meet their needs rather than
move into the kind of traditional tribalism that existed in his long kind of overshadow the the cattle policy debates in this country. So if there's their parents one centre that their kids do a public school, you know how problem without you just want to Thomas could be best best. Actually, would we want public school then to look at that soon as individuals, rather than look at them as one among an average or measure them against an average or treat them as a kind of us? A cog in a wheel, Anderson publish all the dew tremendous job at that I live in DC. There's a d c public school down the road for me and then ass Papa element. Gaza and the principal their city, Robinson, darted, tremendous job, transforming at school and really looking at every student comes into hers, hurt school as an individual, respecting them as an individual and every single internet schools on board without model
and, in the same could be said about some great public private schools out there. In the same vein, there's public private in charter schools, that kind of all What gives a kind of fall into line meet their model get in? in in it into their system and kind of want to chisel off the the jagged edges that make it unique and wonderful. So obviously, during the week of the crisis, enormous health effects, obviously she would chicken out at the effects, peacefully, but then enormously consequential education effects as well, where you had schools, shutting down schools operating remotely? What what do you know about the research? What effect that that's had on children's learning
Well that that's a great what in question- and I dont know if anyone really knows what that impact will have on their learning. We know the the tangible, immediate impact is that all fifty five point, six million students in this kind? had been impacted in some way by COBRA nineteen take up often it through the pandemic itself. But through the learning disruptions what began as a slow wave in early March quickly with over the way Like March thirteen through, I think about the twenty first, you saw schools all across his country immediately shut down what began to think most parents have accepted as Canada Sir extend spring break in the summer, and a lot apparent recognizes that schools want positioned to quickly pivot, to adapt
they allow escorted, allowed tremendous work. Training shift to schools really just were unable to you. I again Fairfax public schools. Here starts I d c. They just shrug account of you, said: hey sorry, regularly get regular pivot. In time we tried retried retried. Here's some home homework sheets will see in the far the farmers now fast forward, the fall and you ve got. You know. I think it's about sixty percent of all students nationwide learning at home to the school closures. Some the biggest school districts in this country have demonstrate. They cannot, though, there were unable to reopen and somewhat
they did reopen, are unable to do it continuously at still disrupted model. So every student still continues to face radical disruption in their education that that really challenging the very premise of what our traditional model and and system looks like you in that country, so work without work away around here to watch or one of the policy initiative. The things would be very, very important and in this parliament, but just general, it design online learning work. Is there any such thing as online learning it ain't? You said you, you got support you in any way to educate kin and there be mindful of them as individuals can. Can you do that well online for something that works out great you now,
students, ally learning is actually their preferred model. Even before this pandemic slipped over our country and and since the pandemic, I think a great number of students have. Around their learning online morning. Remotely is a good model for them, but that's the beauty of individualizing the education process for those that are works. We celebrate and we want to allow them to continue to have access to that sort of my model for a lot of students is knocking at work. They need the interact They need beheld, a one on one connection with an educator can be that trusted
who can help guide them along their educational journey, and that's where a lot of that you kind of traditional system has kind of shrugged and said well, we'll do our best to you know. First, who will get there in the fall, despite a lot of folks, myself included, think it's not likely and turn up sixty percent of schools. Closed Kasr back at home, Illogical River took it will get there in January a bit out. I'm out, I'm not a doctor, a scientist tat. The idea that the British have this solved. This house pandemic saw by January, I think, is ludicrous like that's. When most kids have your typical flew symptoms, suffer, have you know another round of of disruptions come January, and I just think
anything we ve come to see that a one size fits all model and the idea that all kids need to learn the same way. It is is not the solution to this worked into the education crisis in our country. So what what's your view on? Adjust the safety how safe our schools rose when an enormous political debate about this, were you have some? teachers and the adult running school saying you know, God forbid, you know you're putting us danger and then other people very strenuously, arguing way. You look at the experience of of other countries with him. Opening schools. You look at the research, it's just that! There's not a lotta indication that that kid's her a huge
After for this. What what is your understanding? How the best stated that the best research on this question? I think too often these that the law, these things are being made in two ways that are flawed, wandering made politically. There may may, in political terms,
I think you saw that, where a lot of the positioning from the library labour leaders around this issue, where even before any science was out there, they are demanding that all school from enclosed absence of science or demanding all schools remain closed, and then you have the other side of this, which is that everyone schools to reopen, allow parents rhythm want and that every parent can feel comfortable teachers can feel control. Returning and again that the way our resources has been set up too often, we can assume that the education decision should be made at a one size fits all solution was again. It was as the floor number two is a recognised that hey what, instead of having a opt out.
The education system, we have an opt in educating system in the sense of a parent Caesar that their schools opening and their comparable, with the way that their remedying some of these challenges and these health challenges. They should build a standard issue had access, napkin listeners didn't there, but it require be if they, if they they want, they should have the ability to kid opted out and use their funds that are otherwise set aside, first student to fund education in a manner that best meets that kids needs. Some kids, like we talked about, could be out of line, could be a hybrid model, could be another school down the road, but we should really be thinking about what's best for the individual student and put ourselves in their shoes as opposed to how we make everybody try and confirm till one size fits all system, especially in the middle of a pandemic. So you're New York right yeah.
What's Goin on board, were well or escape eyes from New York, but with we'd better get your session here you exactly, you know what what what go around the city doesn't and into the health. This isn't the health challenges that the waste cool restructured, the density, relation the same sort of decisions and and and victory around those those challenges shouldn't dictate the same type of citizens in Westchester or in a world part of New York, and yet that's kind of the mindset allow. The folks traditional product live in, which is always I'll be living under the same set of rules and Pennell.
Hiding or limiting opportunity for all students at the same time, as opposed to trying to break this apart and decoupling. Some of the way we did make these assets is to look at what best for individual student at at at at the most local level possible. So you think caused the way education's been dispersed and put more on parents thought that you would do it this way. Obviously it is but a burden to tell our folks, but that this can potentially we can learn from this potentially going forward and a nod pandemic environment. Giving more parents are taught me and giving more at having more flexible in the system. Generally, absolutely, I think they're a ton of lessons to learn. I think one of the biggest lesson we learnt that it out trying to contain
just to stay in the system where parents are expected to either remain at home. With a student at home, learning in front of a computer probably isn't sustainable for all fifty five, fifty six million students in this country, and yet that's primarily the alternative. Most traditional schools leaving many private schools and charter schools have offered parents the otter lived in a classroom model. Here we can give a tea in classrooms, so I'm going. Instead is give Turkey kid a tablet, or you already have Evelyn Waugh lessons online at Home- and we hope that you can still be- you're, still working at home or can remain at home, making sure your kid, whose Yell
a third grader and naturally wants to get up and wander around periodically remains in their seat. That model it's just, not realistic, no sustainable, and yet that's what the traditional systems kind of offering as the only alternative to what what would otherwise be in classroom in in in classroom model. This is an over something as sustainable. As in this not ask any parent: ask anyone you just go. We go online, you see people just. I haven't knelt down sad here. So what what's your thought on the so called pods that some parents gotten together in and contracted for, instructed themselves and have, as a small group, kids, that's been taught in someone's living room, something I think it goes back to the the beauty of the ingenuity of American
where, when a child is presented, we find a way to kind of respond to it in a way that best right through the channels were resorting pod, aren't necessary, quote new. I don't think I've ever had the that demand and the attention they had now because which are certainly recognising they can take more control over their child education. They can hired a teacher to teach five ten fifteen students on a closer. You know compound there and keep and allow them to have some that in person direct communication with an educator, a guide loud and have some socialization with other students and allow them to help, allows them to continue to learn and not just the come too how d you now sit in front of a computer and and be ready to or haven't, homework dropped off periodically
So I think it has been a great benefit for a lot of families and what is your view that critique take said while the these parents more aware with all its resources to do. This said this time you know of great disruption of the education system he's these parents who are already have of all sorts of privilege or- or only and enhancing the uneven Naturally, the outcome toilet one, the strongman argument in the center. If that's the biggest challenge, then let's address that problem right now. I've I've read from the messages from the critique from from folks who are more, you know
traditional education leader such as Randy. Why guard who wanted ways that flag and then I M right recognised like right, wouldn't want to create a bigger axiom we'll? Why continue to have expanded gaps between students, wealth since not wealthier or in poverty? If that's the problem that silly challenge of parts and let's shift finds that the families Unita let's take the fund, it would otherwise go to schools that are largely sitting empty.
Given the parents who are otherwise unable to higher to a tutor or a guide or a teacher to allow them to do that with close that gap, instead of using the strongman argument to try and prevent family from having more opportunity. So that's my my biggest challenge with that sort of argument. Is it does it? It is a complete distraction from the actual solution that could be afforded to many families mean the average home school family prior to this pandemic spent six hundred hours per child health so that it dead.
For every four per year and that out in an that's, a homesickness analyse, not hiring contracting river with a local guide, but but that but the barrier entry freak low. You start a couple that, together with with lawful families, the very rich we still remains pretty low. If you allowed funds to shift to a family, allow them to use those funds to hire and and pay for that. Guy paper that teacher supplement those expenses paper for other ought education needs such as the vices connectivity online models out school. All those other sort of supplemental resources, you're talking about the ability to close this problem immediately overnight, and so that actually gap is gone. Now I've been around long enough to know that they'll find new excuse why this isn't a good idea, but
longer. They want to bring that up. I think that is largely to the strong men are strong and art argument to try and prevent family from accessing more opportunity, So, in terms of funding, do you want new legislation for this kind of fairer legislating for this kind of funding. If their. If there is further legislation, do you wanted the Idiot education aid directed this way, so you some ass, he did do fervently want more education funding in this environment or its only if, if washed in get together and wants to spend more than you want that money directed TAT. While I dont think we need more plain and simple
The federal government already spent seventy five billion, and this year they ve response and additional seventy one billion the funding. It is there, the towns and what causes the critical callers and caught fund every kid was when we started see more proposals come out. I think the most recent was about three hundred and fifty billion from from them, when a carcass to continue to fund schools, there were other wise, largely empty and not serving. Student so to say: ok waving, brigaded continued to spend billions in covered a relief dollars on education that funds those funds need good families. First I'll government demonstrates what it cares about, is priorities by what it funds and if you know, if we truly value and priority students than those wanting to go students first, not schools institutions. We already spent, send you one billion
with a manifesto funding in one year on uncared for education, and students are still remains at home. Learning remotely you have king gardener told it there and hurricane process it is, can be seen in front of a computer. That's if this is not the optimal bright yellow with terrorists They must have time to keep their kindergartners away from the computer. It suddenly Amazon hours. Totally in them, and and then it completely absent at the fact that parents are also still on the hook to continue to work a lot of it. Not every family has the ability to work from home right while families they still have the earthen to workers. They have to go back to work Or there were or the works reopening and are expected to return so the you know, this just shows a kind of antiquated and and illogical response from DC, which is hey, stood out working there, not reopening kids
at home? So let's just send billions more to schools and maybe that'll solve the problem was just doesn't work, give it the parents we already agreed that equity is a problem. That's holding some families back from having access to pods, but close that equity gap give him the funds it immediately. Those parts contract with the guys and teachers and learn and Anne and other folks who can help kids learn. So how would you go about dispersing the money to parents? Does it everyone with the cave assert age would would get some money or are perhaps how it work. I think you there's did mark for different proposals. Author. I dont think that one perfect. I would think it could be a simple as a direct, the parent
and based on their students, age, and then you could wait it differently, but I think that the very basic level, let's get on it on the same page first. This is the right process and right path who want to go, and then, let's hash out the details that otherwise DC typically wants to kill things with details are supposed to getting on the same page. First sorts backward what school systems have been doing in this environment? Are there any school systems on your radar screen that you think of just sort of knocked it out of the park and and dealt with us in and an eye aware or or weight is clearly better than than other places there there Then a couple there'd been one individual, actually too strong a quick blank where they have actually contract with part in their enabling students to contract, with pod too, through the trees,
nor public school system. Recognising that there are priority at a school system is to educate kids as opposed to get kids in their school, and so there they partnered, with with other, with other independent contracted and with other folks along parents, to create these pod take their fund and to do that, and I think that's it. The situation of other system, where you have people prioritizing what's best for kids? First, as opposed to New York City, for example, where they are going to keep public schools closed for learning, but then there are going to open them up as they cares where you're you're, literally you're, not thinking about what's best for a kid you're, just trying to keep the system staffed and funded and that's wrong. So so this district in Nevada actually
creating the page or funding the potter. Connecting people prepared. All me out with the paths exactly in the longer term to sift their funds over and and use them to the contract with pod in Nevada. Recount pointed up all round the fire to tax. We have paddling and ongoing learning absolutely not gonna classroom model. Yes, what are usually do about it? I up without telling anyone today they just assume. I know everything I live in a very transparent world can so Think, besides me, packing plants the military, the school systems and in most places the most in industrial era, feeling institutions and american life where this model of a mass schooling come from
when did it arise, bow wow. I really didn't Prussia hum with doesn't evenings were all get ideas come from. We were hollered red ideas came from. And it was imported into the Eu Ass, because we we hadn't at that moment in time. We did an education system too, meet the economic demand of our countries. Are we in the Indus Revolution was under way, but we didn't quite have an education system that met the industrial industrial logic. You know the frighted economy and so basically about TAT I guess it about her. Fifty years ago they were imported in really drove. Her
This model that at the time, mirrored the economy and they stork lay over time beyond the programme on what you ve always had Eddic education systems that often mere your acknowledgement. Try you want your you want your folks, you are you're you're citizenship to be educated, to meet the economic demands, that of that at that time period. That the different was we'd, never shifted, we change our economic model, radically sense, the eighteen hundred, but yet the way we educate students hasn't changed and in what would goes to show just how updated we ve become as, like, I think, other economic six, a committee of TAT, which is ten ten ten folks off all. I think that I'm ready all, but a couple rag male college, professor called presence they basically wrote
what the education systems look like it up in the report of the Committee of ten very radical names back then, and they said that every student should learn at the same pace at the same rate in the same mature same time and that we start from first grade the eighth grade and then from night came to talk. Twelve Gregg now like near a hundred and forty years later we do this. We do the same identical of written down in eighteen, ninety six, and yet somehow that's acceptable that we. Stand arises model and somehow we can't break from it, and this one thing is tat: MC has demonstrated that the model so system is that one you had fifty five point: six million students impacted the model broke, it couldn't responded time, it couldn't refined, quick enough it couldn't it couldn't help. Students and you had the largest good- is written this country just kind of shrug Intel kid sorry will see next fall far and they are the next sponsored sorry will see in the spring
and this is fundamentally unacceptable. So I know you're not a historian of american education. I don't mean to make his pack has to do it, but you do know, did turn. Did american education back in that arrow when we first imported this model, did it benefit from it? Were we churning out that net more Moura, more and better educated kids? I would say we turned our students in a way that the system that the purpose of educate won't open the purpose of education met the system. So we is, we believe, as a country back in that the purpose of education was a rank and sort students to choose who should go to college and whose ago two traits go and that's exactly what it did in an extremely well extremely
Fifthly, and as a result, if you didn't go to college, you got trade school and you feel a great middle class life, and so, if you look at the way the you, the increase in in life expectancy, the value income, the future in the growth of upon one or ship and largely it succeeded. Today, though, the system by every benchmarking creates a system creates its own benchmarks you now and on every benchmark. The system fails so at some point the system is no longer kept up with what its post be delivering, which is the purpose of education, which is to get every kid and opportune.
To learn the skills necessary survive in the world. So when you say they create their own benchmark, what what what kind of benchmarks yet again and they get like the name score, for example, right than the did to demonstrate that the system is working. We ve come up with a series of different testing metric sustained what this whole matter: students on every single one of those metrics the system absolutely fundamentally flocks on his face, and you back to two and I think it was ill thirteen and aren't Duncan Secretary education. Obama called it up at when the new Scores came out names court, for those aren't nerds like me, is the way we measure students in in the U S and it's gonna call the young. The nascent report card. Add Arnie dumping bullet picture of stagnation fast forward to second,
divorce, whether you, whatever you're feeling to around her she he could have lifted the same quote and use it because, again the score for flat student Hannah had had not progressed in math. I think the scores actually had gone down, so it's like in every way we try to measure the system is not working, but yet somehow we remain a tightly gripped onto it as if somehow this, if we just Dante's, educating them a little bit. More. We just get of cattle, but more tasks. Prep will make them better on the test, as opposed to stepping back and going are. We is a system where we have delivering on the purpose. If the answer is no the, maybe the system broken if most teachers it most parent all agree that
teaching to the task is in the right way to do it. The may wish to stop doing it. Maybe racist revisit the waiver, were teaching, kids and and and decoupling in and break it open, and that's actually what we are seeing today and but a by once again. If you look at council level, though, to fund education, they still want when the system absence of other announced injuring class, whether other in the building, but continue to give them billions about? Yet this does clearly crazy, but what what some people say and touches little but little earlier is Actually so maybe you say that this shirt failure, the whole system can adapt quickly enough and failed tend to my kids.
The counter argument will look a lot of parents of just realize the just realized the value of packing Africa on a bus and having him or her to someplace else for six hours a day or wherever it is someplace safe, some someplace They learn at least something someplace where they socialize and you gotta work. You're in a living, and then you come back home and you meet with school bus. So what are you talking about data that the failure there? It is just that these these this pandemic washed over us and parents can no longer feed their kids into this, sir, more of the system and when they can no longer do that and their thrown back on their own resources. That's there that's the disaster, so we we need. This shows we need this industrial model. It's it's good, for parents is good for families,
and everything you're describing is I dont disagree with it all right. There is a convenience factor of the traditional system, tat we ve built our lives around. We built economies around a lot, but but in some ways we have it right for working to two working household family, a school, the end to thirty three o clock, naturally envy We this just kind of a came to accept it right, the idea that we send kids to school at a young age. You know around times that are in other on the times that are actually best their brains to learn, tells me that we haven't done. The damn thing is the right way we continue did did too accepted is the way it is the fact that it was real. If you go back a pre pandemic life, the average parent wasn't happy with international system, the average teacher at a turnover rate. That was atrocious because they were happy with.
With with a system at the fact that we know continuously religiously, that we don't pay or treat teachers with as much respect tells me that we actually weren't doing things right, we're probably doing things wrong. We just accepted some of the convenience. I came along with that wrong, and so we miss the convenience and until then like every what's all for the convenience of, if the having your student, your child, hello alone, out of your house, your hair. On top of that problem. Them into an environment that best meets their individual needs, while solving for the problem that you can have a kid at home, why you're working at home or wider returning to your job instead of saying, let's go back to a model that we all agreed, didn't work but Rogan it, but we're ok with a convenient factor that it didn't work. So what are the best times for kits learned by it? It varies by aid, but we haven't flip
and, like you know, high school kids to school earlier, when they re right to sleep in longer, am ten little younger kids discover later when they are the ones that are up early and oftentimes soaking in information early with their sins are awake, and so we we ve done this well. I never know this, but I'm going to use it to explain my undistinguished icicle career going over the six o Clock morning as a high school student is just it's insane it in every way in shape and form. We ve done patient, even anything like the summer's off right. Everyone enjoyed them and in some aspect we enjoy the kind of the idea of summer vacation. We all enjoy some of the less, though you know nostalgic, but if you took out nostalgia from and took out the kit, though the funding convened.
He took away student no below a longing for that summer break. Is it for the best thing to do for kisses to given three months off, maybe not say there's nothing to worry about building. It is the best way to do it and then have to spend you know the first three months when they come back room mediating there. Although learning losses, if we greens aside ass the right thing to do, let's do it, but let's also do that with the treaty and the right, the best way to educate kids, maybe instead of giving them three months after even a month off or you give up now what were back in school rate remediation another month off. But there are other ways to do this, but often ever were stuck in. The system is stuck on this model in the folks who benefit from it that they are the ones who often time trying to keep it together. Even it's not that,
thing for families and didn't so May. Try another end. Everyone everything's gonna, hate me right now. If they Europe there wasn't, I know you have a huge, probably like Highschool part. Somebody like hate mail that I'm going over the summer vacation this now exactly what I'm saying. So, I'm only trying to the counter ignored on you any at its base is a version of the the pod inequality and yet I I asked you, but there s another, be well. Well, look. We got this sameness, the systematic everyone, since our kids do by and large, but it that's a great instrument of cultural cohesion, which is a good thing and its in its own right.
And also in an instrument for and for equality. In your ear, I was going the same school system everyone's during the same trick. You and I have some differentiated- you know eighty classes in and what not, but still I once going in getting the same thing in this should be that this. This is it. This is a good things to the value for society. What I'd like that I'd like to know how you back them up in matter, because one of you, if you say it's, it's creating a better society. I say we have more fracture society today than ever before. I have number two.
The again the way that this system chooses the matter itself. I am more radical minded. Yet, let's challenge the system tat of individual, but the system creates this test to standardize tat raw across the country, the measure itself on par their failing those tests. So it's not actually reaching the goal. That of achieving and, furthermore, you're having you. You have a larger the largest gap there, but largest inequity gap between those who are wealthy and those who are poor between white and black students, then in the history of this country, so that this beautiful system we will we like to think sometimes that we have or told them that we could just reach is actually getting worse and worse each year and this is heir to the pandemic. So I would say that by and large the system is not working, it has
been working and if anything's really challenging pandemic raw facing has just brought to life. The the problems tenfold so last thing that and use this to tie a tie bow on the couch I read like that, would you say to up more of concern? lieutenant the people say. Ok, that all sounds great, but we got this education blob we ve been talking about other options for a really long time, system, stolen and place still as as you They argue failing in an important respects. So why should not just be a fatalist about this whole question? I would say, because what were what we're looking right now and what we are witnessing our families rising to the challenge
Creating pods hiring teachers who otherwise were quitting are going back to school or just leaving system were retiring early and we should be pulling down and those opportunities we should be expanding rapidly is rather than limiting on them, and also because there is no reason why we can have some sort of hybrid of books. Too often the educated world like to try and like it said boy first talking. I didn't have devised a ruined the camps, your other for charter schools or your for private sculpture for public to us. There is no reason why we couldn't have a model and a better model that is both folksy on individual needs of each and every student, respecting their individuality, while also not succumbing to the standardized mode and motto and wrote memory. Nation of the existing system
and doing things better and- and I think I believe there is a country we can do- that. I think you do it by by shifting your priorities to what matters most was a student. As opposed to funding and prioritizing what doesnt matter is much which our systems- and I think that's it- that's the genesis of the fund. Every kid you, ok Horsham. The reason why we have over seventy two cordless in from around the country who got together and said if we continue to face these disruptions, it's time to find every kid. Should the fun indie kids prioritize what matters and allow families have to access to the funds that allow them to customize our kids education in the way that meets their individual needs, and when you have six percent of students out of school, you have forty percent of spam,
the occasion you have. I think it's a twenty percent of of teachers lightly, less from any likely tat to leave here that the system we need to do something different and it's not just the same or similar, Ok, well, that's it for us are regularly scheduled programming or turn soon you to national you podcast, any real broadcast. Retransmission countless gang without express written permission of national magazine is strictly pro This part castle to produce by the incomparable Sarah Shitty, who makes a sound better than we do, Sir. Thank you mad for the conversation and thanks. I want for listening, we're the editors and will see you,
Transcript generated on 2020-09-24.