This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I'm doing just how are you do all right higher, pretty exciting. To talk-
at this case. So we're just going to get to it tonight we're talking about the mysterious death of Alfred right yeah. How old was he twenty seven or twenty eight? He was twenty eight twenty, eight years old and his truck breaks down, there's some witnesses. That say he was on the phone and he left the scene, and he went off into the woods and his family was looking for him. They could not find him. They reported him missing sheriff, shows up searches for three days. Calls off the search says: Alfred's of missing Person in the family will end up finding Alfred's body there are,
Wounds on the body that they don't think are consistent with enacts at an accident or whatever became of him. There's discrepancies and autopsies there's a bunch of allegations that here could have been involved with certain members of law enforcement, and this was a hit racial tensions in the area have been really bad for a very long time, so Some call it a lynching and the family to this day believes there their son, their husband, their father, was a victim of a lynching or a murder. Meanwhile, the law enforcement officials maintain that
was a terrible accident in. If we didn't mention it, Alfred is african american and his wife. Lorn is white mixed race couple in rural taxes. If you haven't read about the case, it is very interesting and. and somewhat mysterious. Where do we start here? We want to start with the day he disappeared november. Seven, twenty thirteen in Sabine county texas, is that desire Yeah, that's how the news report is pronounced itself if we got a wrong, then we're just copying what they got around its by jasper and hemp hill. So this is a texas case and alfred right he drives is dodge truck around to his different appointments.
And on november seventh, he has made it to a couple of appointments already believe he had ten appointment scheduled for the day and he's working One of the reasons he's excited to be working is: he is hoping to get enough money to eventually by new truck a new vehicle after a second appointment. His truck starts overheating. It was just a couple of days. Prior his truck suffered an altar. or issue, so he'd already had trouble that weak with his truck and now his trucks overheating. So he pulls up outside, seal and m- can be-
In store mart whatever yeah right and he gets out and he gets on the phone, so Alfred called his wife Lauren. She couldn't get out because their two kids were sick. Their kids are kingston who's, four and caisson who's, two, so their little ones. He she doesn't want to just run out with these to sick kids when she can send someone else to help him many tight with his parents. So it works that way. The his parents are rosalind and douglas. There's a woman that works at this place and she sees him. She says that after he's done with the phone that he ends up tucking his phone into his. when I first read about that? I didn't know quite without meant, I dont know if he pulled his socks off and put his found in it or if he took it into a sock,
and he literally just pushed it down into his sock, and then he ran off now real quick he's a have a physical therapist and he works for a company called rehab to go, and He's wearing medical scrubbs, so I'm wondering if the pockets on this score observe not. You know that. you're hurt, if they even exist on the on the clothing, is wearing an that's. Why he put his phone in a sock is just a possibility. I've heard that said that those scrubbs probably wouldn't hold his cell phone very well, especially if he's jogging down the street right. If you go jogging are running off, then it could possibly just jump out of your pocket
with his phone call, he made was to his wife telling her my truck is over heated or broke down, and I need help and she gets his parents in rout its kind on that the store clerk, seize him took his phone into Isaak and take off if his parents are in rout. Well, that's just it. We don't know if he knew tat. His parents ran route because his wife calls him back that when the phone is picked up I'll, see here is heavy breathing and she starts to get worried like maybe he's mad, because maybe he doesn't perhaps he doesn't feel like she's helping him enough, because She wasn't going to get out because their two kids were sick, so she was like. Are you mad and what's going on,
trying to get answers out of him, but he wouldn't say anything. She just heard heavy breathing and she calls and texts him multiple times from here on out, asking him to please reply and he's not calling her back and not texting iraq, so that was around five, thirty, eight p m that night his parents arrive at the convenience, store, look around form and they go to the police station and report that their son is missing at six thirty, so pretty quick less than an hour since the last contact they had with them. The deputy meets the parents at the convenience store little while later, seven thirty issue and he interviews the parents and asked the store clerk. What's going on, she says
he ran down the road north on the highway. His parents can't find him his wife can't find them so that night they pretty much spend all night they're, looking for him and the sheriff Tom Maddox, one that comes out in the morning and starts a search party, and they have I'm sure most of the police force and all the personnel they can bring to arms to search for Alfred. and they just start and the surrounding area. They start in the direction he ran off at no point does it seem that they asked for the security camera at the convenience store and the parents of alfred say that the owner says that it doesn't work. The security cameras are not functioning
were there wasn't a vhf tape in the recorder recording it. So it was just a live stream. They give mixed answers when there asked about the security footage, so no help there and what Alfred looked like or which direction he ran off. All we know is, they said north so that's where they start there. Their search party during the search his wrist watch is found. And a near by residents announces that they see what looks to be, Blue scrubbs, like a piece of fabric on a barbed wire fence and this piece of fabric according to the family, is a perfect square. I could been cut from scratch,
and not a tear or rip. So you have a wrist watch and partial clothing found in the general vicinity. I think Alfred's mother actually sleeps and her car out there for the three days, and when I say sleep I mean is there and hopes for the best, the sheriff after three days of searching. Says we have exhausted all of our resources. We are calling off the search and we're going to pack up and head home. The sheriff says it doesn't appear to be any foul play and he's innocent person at this point. This is make the family happy, because only three days of searching when somebody's been missing less than a few hours
actually brought dogs in and the dogs followed. His trail kind of tor a pond area, and then they lost assent which they didn't follow it down the road to a vehicle or something like that. Like missing murray style like work, it's possible. She got into a car, they followed it deeper into the wooded area and then lost assent. So the families not too happy because they think well here, they didn't get in a car he's somewhere around here. So we need to keep it
king. Why are you calling off your search and they did not like the sheriff's answer at all? Well, it's an investment issue. I'm sure they're they're, more invested in finding him than the sheriff is. That seems understandable right now, but the sheriff is supposed to work for the public, so the family wants them to keep going at it. They need to keep looking so, and I guess I've what's more important than somebody that's missing right now and according to the family, the sheriff gives a very kurt response of heat probably on drugs like meth, and he just ran out into the woods. Yet while I hate to say it, but I think sometimes you have law enforcement that would think wow. This is a grown man and if he doesn't want to be found right now and again- and we've said this before, you have family who will say he wouldn't just take off like that,
absolutely would return. Yeah has a wife and he has too little children at home waiting for him. He wouldn't just take off. If he's missing there, something going on in for the sheriff too say he's on drugs and ran off into the woods normal people dont be doing that's not a normal thing. You know and when you see Alfred, he's fit means a physical trainer stood looking Scott a lot going form and his family says he has zero, History of drug use any doesn't have any history of drug use as far as arrest record and hey. He doesn't have a history of odd behaviour. So here we are. This is area, abnormal behaviour for somebody who's waiting on either
Why? For his parents to come rescue him to just take off it just doesn't make sense, so his family doesn't give up, though, and they have assistance from friends and other concerns, people who also want to find him. So the family does give up. They keep searching, especially after finding some items that belong to Alfred, so it's proven that he was their right, so their motivated banned at finding Alfred on november twenty fifth, it's about eighteen days since he went missing that they find him and when they find him. It's a curious sight because he's only wearing his underwear, his boxer briefs, either black box or reefs, I think, and he's wearing both of his shoes
and he only has one sock on that happens with sock that a cellphone stock still and when they remove his shoe from that same foot, there has the sock with the sulphur, inside the shoe are his keys to his truck where's puncture wounds across is at an end and legs. He he appears to be missing an ear. his eyes are either pushed in or gouged out and later on, the fine that his tongue is missing and possibly a few teeth are missing. Also, next to his body, they find a dime. Typically, that's Interpreted as drop a dime MIKE our course snitch reported to the police. Or the police leave it there. As in
but he dropped a dime on you and we took care business. Does the interpretations of the dime while also read that it could mean basically like this? warning yeah. It's an alarming sight, yeah, the rescue organization, which is a reverend louis and family when they find his body. They notify law enforcement and the ship and they say we found him in the first thing out of the sheriffs mouth is working need to iD the body. It's kind of a crappy thing to say to a family that has just found their missing loved one. Obviously already idead the body you don't need to, bring an end to a morgue or any thing, and then have them look at it again. They know their loved one when they find him so It was sort of a really crappy thing for him to say that I
it's procedure and policy. We need to iD the body, but it's already been. I need the families id it, they won't pick up alfred and take him from the scene until the next morning, so Alfred's, father volunteers, to stay with Alfred's body and some law enforcement stay as well. I guess you could say they just sort of camp out there. They set up a canopy because it it's cold and raining pretty much all week long. So you know it's november, so you got winter weather going on here for taxes which isn't so bad, but it still cold and rainy. Now, during their search for his body, this tariff says. You can only search north of here. You can not search this land because it belongs to these residence,
and they don't want people trampling around on their grass. It is I am that he also says it dear season, and I don't want you all out you're getting shot so the sheriffs really portrayed as pushing back on the family, on where they can and cannot search, and exactly where the shoe says his men of already looked is where they end up finding his body, and I know with What was it Alan story with his child? The you know Alan. had that same similar countries As for law enforcement, like we're gonna search, you can't work search here. You can't search there. We already search their area. You don't need to waste your time, searching that area lot of miss
medication between law enforcement in the family, or perhaps it's not miscommunication, perhaps its law enforcement that doesn't need the assistance of the family because, though, just be in the way get so they take Alfred's body and by this point the families actually hired an attorney that attorney his hired a pathologist and they ask if their pathologist can be present for the autopsy of Alfred, at least for the polemic, nary a session and they're told no, he said: can they review your your report? You know before it goes to the family. They're told know some more back from law enforcement, saying that's, not our policy now they think that Alfred's been attacked because of his wounds is missing, ear his his state.
and again the sure saying no foul play and there like. How can you say that a foul play, the man's totally disclosed in missing body parts and laying in the middle of a field also they that the sheriff was lying about their search efforts because they say that If you go down, this trail found in the middle the trail like if you were to in the area that just the natural path you would go and he was lying right there, so it wasn't that far out of the way and the reason why it took the family that long to find him is because they asked permission from the property owner thick go back there in look, he gave them consent. If you ask the sheriff He's like he was in waste high razor brush, so you would I found him and tell you literally were stepping over him and in the family says well,
he doesn't have any marks on his body like scrapes or scratches from all the brush? If he's completely unclear why would why wouldn't have scratches all over him? So little does up and see their whether or not he's in the the path or, if he's in the middle of brush- and The photos that I looked at cairo looks like he's in a path. Actually but there is also an issue with the truck they asked law enforcement to search the truck and the deputy said you ve already been in the truck, because a truck was worked out in front of the convenience store and so Lauren had moved it because the convenience store said you need to move it and they also took his laptop computer out of the truck and they asked law enforcement to search it and they said it's tame it we're not searching it according to learn in the family. So again they say
a foul play and they're not willing to searches, vehicle so starting to really get upset with law enforcement and their lack of interest in investigating the case. There are two sides here: yeah, there's the family. Friends, on the other side, You have law enforcement while they say there investigating, but there there responsiveness and communication with the family is is not acceptable to the family. This episode is brought to you by peacock bridge did the original limited series. A friend of the family based on story of the Jan roper kidnappings from nick, and oscar executive producer of the act and candy and direct, producer eliza hip and comes a dark. Compelling look at the harrowing story through new lands produce which amber burke herself the series stars, anna pack, when jake lacy college hanks LEO Tipton and mckenna grace stream. Now only on peacock
fx age S and Y see is the next instalment of the award winning anthology series. American horror story created ryan, murphy and brad fell chuck with to all episodes airing each week it promised to be a season like no other. It s an Y see stars returning favorites like Zachary window and Billy lord along with them. faces, including Russell Toby and Charlie carver. Something Evil is coming, fx is, yes and Y, see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu law enforcement starts to feel that families blaming them for the day that their son or trying to cover it up so law enforcement conniston cut off communication with them and brings in the texas rangers pray might. I think it was the day he he was found, so the texas rangers are taking over the case.
And so the families happy about that as there like we're, not getting anything out of the sheriff. So hopefully with the two the stranger is that all you know be a new line communication, but after a couple of weeks of the texas rangers, they're still unhappy with any of the investigation and then they get the autopsy to report back is that the natural progression of things the autopsy report. Much like the investigation, is not satisfactory for the family. They are not satisfied. They hear that Alfred Wright had a combination of drugs in his system. He had cocaine, meth and xanax and that the damaged. Unto his body was a combination of the barbed wire fence and a wild life and the insects hedge don damage to his face, which I kind of get big,
is, animals do go after the soft tissue first, such as your eyes, your tongue, your ears. So I get that, but the autopsy report right off the bat they call into question, because the time of death at the top of the report is listed three hours after they found the body in the time of death. Technically is when they received the body and not the actual time of death, because either the coroner more than half working for the county, got it wrong or he was simply writing in the time he received the body. But again it's brought into question there like he's been dead for for over a week, maybe too, so you can't say that he died after. We found him that that doesn't gel with us. So
very unhappy with this autopsy report and they absolutely do not believe that their son does drugs, especially stuff, like cocaine and methods, famine, so they're having a really hard time with that being the case of his death or the reason for so. The autopsy conclusion is basically an accidental death due to drug overdose or the combination of drugs combination of drugs, really because it was a bad mix and that is a bad mix of drugs and cocaine in math in combination is is bad enough, but it's sort of odd that santa, was also there because annexes more of us oppressor- and these are our stimulant so taking both kind like a vodka, at ball, but the family once answers,
or why was his clothes and wrist watch found? Why was he found? You know only wearing his box, shorts and How can you say this is an overdue those who are bad drug max our sun doesn't do we ve never seen him do drugs so pathologist, who is doctor its doktor Lee gross bourgh yeah? her preliminary observations. She says this looks like homicidal. Violence I don't like that terminology. I would prefer it if she just said this. This look like it is past, foul play in a homicide and again I have kind of bash on the lawn force me here. They say no foul plays involved, yet they find him in very weird circumstances with drugs in a system. I guess drugs illegal drugs. Aren't foul play. I that's kind of weird me even if it's not an intentional malice active
making somebody o d, if you did cells, but he drugs that they die from. That is foul play to me that you know so: I kind of don't appreciate the the sheriff saying no, no foul play right from the beginning, but on her initial observer actions she's finding issues with some of the way, and on Alfred's body and the family says his throat has been slit, he's missing teeth, in the initial autopsy report, none of these things are mentioned, do they really not mention the teeth of that they mention the teeth. I just didn't mention this slip through He mentions damage to the mouth of oil cavity area and the tongue is absent. It's kind of a vague description. Really, if you don't know how to read an autopsy report I can see how they think it wasn't mentioned.
It is a little scientific and vague again. This is what the family claims turns out that they find out Alfred had a few secrets, It turns out that he had rented a hotel room when his wife was away. The company that he works for the sheriffs daughter happens to be the scheduling person that sends them off on appointments so in their racially tense rural area text. This serves. White daughter may be possibly having an affair with a black man comes into question, and then the sheriff has zero interest in trying to find this man and has zero in and communicating with the family, and then you pull in the the hotel room So if that's all you know about the case, that's all you heard.
is this guy goes missing. There's a dime next to his body, the poor, these are not cooperating. This is rural taxes that has a history of race. Tensions and lynchings. The family as there is no history of him using drugs, but there's drugs found in this system. What do you think our world sounds bad because it just feels like for one that there's not enough concern on this. I have long foresman or enough effort. When someone who's loved by so many goes missing and as we said, he wouldn't just disappear. It sounds like foul play absolutely or even if it isn't, if it's an accident, then he should be able to be located. They didn't find him. The family found him yeah
I'm sure if we lost a loved one were the ones that end up finding them and not law enforcement. That's a big screw you. I had to do your job for you. So, let's, let's back up now and let's play this through with all the information that we know in the case now when they spoke with Alfred's wife, she let the sheriff now correct that he was acting pair annoyed. Her initial statement was, he was normal and then she called back and said. Actually he was acting a little incoherent, a little weird and paranoid. So I wonder if that perhaps got the share of this sort of assume something assume that if he was acting strange that perhaps he was on drugs yet again, probably not something you want to tell people. I can understand the sheriff just
thought that the thing kept it to himself but sharing, let that with the family seems a little yeah. He might have thought him was rude or or he might have, he might think. Well, maybe Maybe there is a drug dealer, situation here and I need to- walked all the evidence to build a k. So I'm not going to inform you about the drugs or the drug use because
it may be investigating you later, there's a lot of different explanations there. Well, let's talk for a minute about the actual search, because we talked about how the sheriff was part of a search that lasted two or three days, and then it was over. The family feels like the efforts on the part of those searching was not good enough, not adequate. So let's take a look at who is searching. There were over one hundred people from the Sabine county sheriff's department, along with local fire department, volunteers, the us forest service,
texas, aquas search jasper, county emergency corps, various other volunteer searchers. So I would say a good number of people all working together yeah. They brought I've. I feel like they brought everybody, they could for a three day search and they searched the ground and they also searched by air, but they never found Alfred butts and I totally see how somebody could think. Why? Wouldn't you have found him? You ve researching the exact area. He was in were they they don't really know where they were searching. They were told where they were searching, but, as we know,
they could literally have walked past him. If the brush was that high in and everything, and if they didn't step on him, they might have missed him. But again, this is the discrepancy between the families, description of how he was found, an paolo enforcement says, while he was actually fairly well hidden where he had fallen. Some have described the searchers as having their clothing, getting torn up from the searching because of the different grasses. Yet the brush, and there are in there are images of alfred's body, and you can get an idea of at least what The location where he was found what it looks like it's possible if you're walking around most likely in- and this is one arab occurring as.
you'll notice a smell before you see anything. So I would say, if there's urging real soon after he goes missing and he is out there then they're, probably not going to smell him. No, it's cold out and not enough time is paths yeah. I think they could have left a few officers or some of the was that the wildlife department could have hung back with the family to help search, but they chose not to the two days before he went missing. One of those two days look like well as truck has the alternator issue and he's been texting with somebody man. Name had not chain had not. This is a character that were introducing the family will say his escape goat to support
the sheriffs allegations that Alfred died of a drug overdose heard from drugs. They say had not had nothing to do with this, but the phone records show that they had been communicating for at least a few months and Alfred had actually called and texted him like twenty times aims. In the last two days before he went missing in some of these text. Messages were coded mike. I wanta I want a g, no in a grammar and handle a gino turned out to be a gram of cocaine handle turned out to be xanax yeah. He asked for three handles yeah courtier, the text messages, two had not from Alfred. He asked for a gino twenty and three handles and three hand
Now the twenty is not exactly described is anything but sure sparkman assumes the gino. Was a gram of cocaine. The two He was math and and was annex the handle one makes the most sense because, while Xanax war handle your stress, erect yeah, if all we had from law enforcement about had not was a confession, because he does a whole pleaded like when they charge the sky, cause they end of rating his house, and he has these drugs at his apartment, shane had not yet he had gone to school with Alfred, they ve known each other fur. for a while. He was charged in I'd believe airily on on. He tried saying that he only a marijuana, wanna bet he was done in by the text. Messages that were retrieved
He ended up in meeting to selling of cocaine, but he never admitted to the math, which was sort of weird, then, what's even more ridiculous about it is after he is explaining to law enforcement, about deep coded text message. They re his apartment three days later and final drugs there and I'm like really guy. You didn't get rid of it all like he gives all in this is his life. Is his business can't afford to just get rid of everything right yeah? Maybe I dunno. leave without a friends house. I don't know, I don't have it on your your parliament. Well anyway, count one conspiracy to possess, with intent to distribute and distributed controlled substance, resulting in death count to distribution of a controlled substance resulting in death. sounds like foul play to me, though. So again, I have probably reality yeah, but it he took a plea for less time. Yes, he
getting something more than seven years yeah, as opposed to like. I think it was twenty plus years that they could charge them with which I think that's insane, but at the same time there was a direct death as a result of his action so give or take a little bit on that I mean I'm sure people debate this, so you're selling drugs, it's illegal huh. Is violating federal law. Here, Could easily say you have contributed to his death dad you have to pay the price, but someone else would say sure he was signed drugs, but it was up to fred to whether or not he used those drugs and he's the one that took the risk, its very much like what we just discussed on the watson case, where Two adults lying or not, saying oh we're. Fine we can go into the ocean here will be fine and there being taken at their word. No, it's true alfred took the drugs, it was his decision
there is an allegation that they they gave him a plea to make him. You know why to give them what they want yet, which was sure I do this year I sold out for the drugs? Therefore, I'm he's corroborating their story they set out that they put forth that he was being contacted by alfred to get drugs. He got the drugs problem and then this time. This is when it all went south, but they say that this guy had nothing to do with it. There. There are phone records that tie offered to him, and I I just can't get over that do not believe that the sheriff's department or law enforcement just made these call records up dates, peanut. Eighteen t got these records if they're just making it up wooden. Eighteen t come out and say: yeah, that's bogus They there was no call records there. I don't know if their exactly following at them. True true, But I would just assume that
they're saying, there's a call logger, then it's real. I have to accept that the call on Israel there no calls to the sheriff daughter- or at least they don't those up when they would if there is a conspiracy here but remember back When the family said they took the personal computer out of the truck. they logged in and they checked as colleagues faded unseen. If they logged into the eighteen t account, you can look your own thing right, I'm sure if they saw something they would have used that yeah they would bring it up and they they're not so all we have to go on is these texting calls to had not what's the other thing found when they did the hare sample from offered these drugs. Now sure you could falsifying autopsy report but remit
for the family, hired their own pathologist grossberg. The problem with that is. I think that you have to rely on the first report for that information. but what happens is is so she her initial report where she suggests that he was murdered yeah, but- and this really isn't made public necessarily, but she says that the report is incomplete because she needs information from the first autopsy, so it won't be complete pending on the first autopsy verifications. Now what this is and why this has to be this way, is they take pictures when they set him down and get ready to do the autopsy? They take a series of pictures before they start, and then they take pictures after because that way, you can account for any changes
that those changes aren't later assumed to be from the day he died or of some time. While he was alone out there, a result of the autopsy or a result from nature. In a murder or whatever and what they find- and this is one of the big parts of this case. Is he had a slit throat yeah? Now. Remember that no one says that the slit throat caused his death no way She reviews the images. This ends up, leading her to believe that these slit happened during the first autopsy, because during an autopsy they open your throat and they check in your neck ma rules and stuff to see. If you ve been strangled to death, they check forbid.
No bruising and other things. So they open your throat, and that was what it was pending on, was the slit throat images and they come back and they confirm with her. No, that was the initial autopsy in that's when she concurs with D the county, but the family doesn't like this. They look at this as she's been pressure it or something. I think that she stepped in with good intentions she stepped in with suspicion. This is gross bird by the way, and then I think she found that initial autopsy was okay. there were some issues with it, but the raw conclusion was sound and she concurs. I dont know that mean obviously his throat wasn't slit. I would assume that the father might have noticed that when they found his body comes out, that
puncture women's on his body or from the barbed wire fence and that d again, the eyes the ear and the tongue are from insects or wildlife, because they go for the soft tissue for one the missing here: it's the ear, that's exposed. His other ear is actually to the ground yeah and it's intact, but he was laying on it the ear that's facing out. That's the one, that's missing the missing teeth, never really gets explained they could have been knocked out. absolutely could have knocked out by somebody punching were attacking him or they could have been knocked out by him following. It is somewhat reconciled by the fact that, when one of the first insects to visit a body is a fly and the flies tend to deposit their eggs in the head, and so the maggots that are really
I tend to go for soft tissues if you leave a body alone for eighteen days out the wilderness. There is a lot of activity, both insect an animal So what you're saying is it eight away as gums and internal jaw, muscles and stuff and his teeth just fell out? There is a will. There is actually multiple locations in united states because it's the only place they can do this, but they get donated corpses and they set them out in varying conditions around the country and they wait and watch and see what happens, and so this
insect activity actually does a lot of damage to the face, and the face is actually the first thing to really get disfigured his skull, yeah yeah, because they just go after the flesh and it's the softest tissue. It's not easy to talk about, but if you want to know more about it, look up body, farm, yeah and they've been doing research for quite a while now and they're learning more and more all the time. But I could see how people who aren't familiar with what happens when the
he's left out that long they don't know what they're looking at. In fact, some of the family or friends were saying that it look like his face had been peeled off. We don't need to go to much more, and it is because this really unsettling, but the damage that stand just by natural de composition and in second our activity. It's it's alarming and if you aren't prepared for that, you will misinterpret what you're looking at. You won't understand it. But rest assured this is the thing that there's more and more research being done at all all the time and so for for people who aren't so emotionally invested. This is totally understandable
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Calm, slash gaeta BP were text Judah BP, two five hundred five hundred; that's audible, dot, com, slush judah, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days or more time, audible, dot, com, slash gdp, so the slit throat was really the point of contention which the second pathologists who was hired by the family concurs that that was done during the autopsy. There are multiple pathologists who review the autopsy yeah these are different people that don't they don't hang out, they don't all live, in that area, they review the documents they there. They make sure That process was followed, nato to ground the notes, the descriptions everything makes sense to them.
It doesn't seem to be any discrepancy there, except for the the time of death. Still, I don't think that was described very well have well. The time of death was one I saved the body, so it's kind of like let's just say that they screw that part up. Yet what does that tell you? What does that really even say the family calls it into question, because it seems to be a weird anomaly on the autopsy report. So now it's all I questioned right but, let's just say it is questionable. What is that actually? Do I mean it? It's it's a number. It doesn't really change anything, but if it's your loved one in your state nobody's doing what they're supposed
do. They called off the search after three days and they can't even get the date time of death right on the on the autopsy report. But if it this was murder, time of death is pretty damn important cause. Now you can investigate somebody and try to figure out if they have an alibi or not. So I think it is an absolute pivotal detail that was screwed up. I understand why the family wouldn't want to believe a lot of the other things. If he can get the time of death right, remember the dime that they say was found next to the body. It was fifty yards away. It wasn't anywhere close. The body there was just happened to be a coin out on a trail on a field. Nowhere close to him was any change found next to him, because that was a claim that
How would he have changed with him if he had put his phone in his sock and his keys in his shoe? Where is he keeping the change and why would it suddenly be by his body yeah? That's the thing is The claim, as it was by his body law enforcement, saying no, it was found way far away. so possible, it was his change and as he was stripping off his clothes or whatever that's how it fell, we don't know but is somebody's trying to leave a message leaving a dime. Fifty yards away from a dead body is not a real, clear message of any kind, so I guess where down to. Why would somebody just run out into the woods on drugs when they have their family there? It is, I believe, we're not normal by any sense of the imagination but what is normal behaviour for methamphetamine? Why? First looked at this
I absolutely was like now met, doesn't make you go out there and do that? That's crazy, but if he was paranoid, freaking out having a psychological break in reality, he could have done anything we all know, but what would lead him to do that now? This combination, drugs, cocaine, meth and xanax together it doesn't make sense. It's not an easy conclusion to come to. I have a problem with it. also, I mentioned you know cold and rainy out want. Man says me in fact mean raises your body temperature and you and you strip off all your clothes, because your overheated while yeah it to do that. But if it's called out You really overheating that much thoughts of perception is yeah, but I think the perception is everyone reacts differently to drugs,
Alfred's, not somebody that is a junkie he's, not somebody that hit rock bottom he's, not somebody that The drug use in his life has really affected. Anything is actually doing. Ok he's done a lot of good. Actually, you know you got the guy you're happy drunk, and then he got your fightin drunk drugs affect everybody differently. Could it be possible that This combination that day made him freak out. It absolutely is possible. I've seen someone I know personally freak out on a drug and it's a drug that person it used before. And they never ran out of the house and start running around crazy. Like gets saw him one day I it's hard to to come to that conclusion?
even for me who, like no, that doesn't make you do that, but I will say that the combination of meth, cocaine and Xanax, that is a bad combination that can and will kill you but he's in shape. he's healthy doesn't appear to be on a week, long binge of not sleeping, and you know hold up If you a hotel anything, it's actually functioning in his day. By the way that day, he was supposed to go to several appointments. He makes two, the first one at around noon. They say everything seems normal. The first text message that he said: they had not is around noon that day so between first and second up we have a two hour gap where he doesn't show up to any appointments. could we assume that he might be visiting with had not his drug dealer at that point,
why does it take him so long to get to his next appointment? And it is said at his next appointment the two, the couple: that's there he shows up late and he's acting weird. He sat, he seems agitated and he goes to the bathroom for an extended period of time. Instead of fulfilling the appointment, they tell maybe you should go home, maybe you should leave and he says I have another appointment. I can't go home yet and they tell me probably shouldn't go to your next one. Now again, family says this is just here, by the law enforcement and none of its true on his way to his next appointment. He gets lost he pulls into. DR driveway. This witness says that he I am somewhat incoherent and agitated. The man tries to help him given directions, but then it turns two maybe you should just leave alfred, leaves and issues
at the convenience store so here we have, colleagues multiple witnesses, saying that he's acting strange and even his wife saying he's acting a little odd. That day. can reconfirm at this point that he was on some drugs. It's in a system, Calling a drug dealer and multiple people are missing him act, weird and his hair is later tested and its confirmed that he has used drugs in the past as a hare sample. The drugs stay in there and they don't show up immediately. Unlike a blood test or urine tests were, as feed did the drug immediately. You would piss hot, but a hair sample. its, it shows the more our long term use now long term use doesn't mean you was using for years. It just means that he had used him in the past longer than just that same day right,
about it. It's not like he has really long hair. No, so I'm sure he gets it caught every so often so it only goes back so far. I know when I went to get a job way back when, when blockbusters were still around, I went apply for the job and they needed to have some of my hairs with the route, so they could see if I had been using drugs, it's easy for people to quit with enough time to where they can pass a urine test. By taking the hare. That's a whole different thanks. So so they confirm that offered has rent hotel rooms in the past, the rumour that he was with the sheriffs daughter. There's no phone records of this is just a rumor, But we do know he was at these hotels when his wife went out of town. So what was he doing? There.
Is it possible that that's where he was using his drugs away from his family? Is it possible that that's how he was hiding what he was doing? I think so I think he was cheating on his wife by using drugs most people. Sadly, they could probably do math or coke for years and years and years and never have a problem. My not even exhibit behaviour around people that would make them believe that they were on drugs, but this guy doesn't appear to have used drugs for a long time and was able to conceal it from his family right. He had been charged with a felony and he was facing jail time and he was charged with embezzlement between one thousand to six thousand dollars, depending on which news report you here
is all we know. Is the indictment read that it was in excess of one thousand dollars right, they're not going to give you all the specifics, because secret from us when they were searching for him before they had found his body. The sheriff had made mention that maybe he's on the run because of this charge. So there are multiple news report saying maybe he took because of this pending charge. Family knows about it and Alfred. On that he's not guilty, because he's offered pleaded correct and it doesn't take it in the plea deal that is offered by has no jail time. As I got really, I guess a minimal punishment. This is a serious charge, embezzling money from a bank, and it appears,
It happened between January third, two thousand and eleven and january twenty six, two thousand and eleven. So it's a couple of years before I believe they say he broke the terms of his bail, but this is kind of a big deal. and we could see how it would be. This could add quite a bit of stress to his life again he's hoping to make more money so that he can get a new vehicle and he's got his facing a felony charge here. So that could sink him obviously, it didn't take the plea deal. So what is that is this similar situation where he didn't want to tell his family using drugs. He wouldn't want to admit to them that he had embezzled money. It's possible its this, isn't the kind of thing you want to go and tell everyone if you're doing the wrong thing, you don't rush out to tell everybody: that's not most people's reaction
anyway? Maybe you just thought now you you don't have enough evidence against me. I'm sure I'll be let off so. Therefore, I'm not gonna. Take a bleak deal. I'm gonna be. Generated. Maybe it was a mix up and paperwork is like mad and embezzle anything you'd. Just you know you miss counted the door. I don't know I don't know all the details of it, but he's under pressure that could explain why he might be using drugs because he's got a lot of different stresses in his life, and this is his coping mechanism or it is possible that he was embezzling money study could by drugs. Yeah it's possible. But we should also add that this is in accusation is not been proven, at least in the public, arena. It's just an explanation of why somebody might embezzle money and then be using drugs later, but what I'm sayin
what I'm getting at, though, is it isn't proof that he embezzled money? No he's accused of it they're ready to show in court that he has embezzled money. He could be innocent of that episode. We don't have proof one where the other, except this feels like something that they didn't just make up or got wrong. It has a feeling of legitimacy to it, but again it's it's not as though they proved in court, and then he served some time now. This is something that didn't get taken care of before he died. I would venture to say that, if you're under this much pressure, that perhaps he was using, maybe a different mix of drugs or maybe different amounts. You know they say that people who are using it over time will tend to use more. So we just don't have enough information because we don't know when it started. We just know from the autopsy and the different people who have run these tests, because there are different people involved,
have coroner. You have medical examiners who are viewing it. We have toxicologist who tested the hare. These are different people in different areas and, looking at this case- and we have statements from had not the drug dealer, who says he was visiting me every day and buying a gram of cocaine You would think why are you visit every day with your drug dealer well drug users, that the way they will regulate themselves limit their their drug use is they will only by a certain amount from the guy they won't by five grams or ten grams, because they know they'll just do it lol, so they buy one grandma day were one gram every other day. So that's all they'll do for that day. By the way, grandma cocaine is kind of a lot for a daily habit. It's not a small amount more. How much would you venture to say this was cost wise, noticed
the value of cocaine these days but cockades that cheap. Let me ask you this without getting specific amount for what would abandon two thousand thirteen. Is this something that he could have been by? in on a daily basis and kept from his wife in terms of the amount that he was spending, possibly because it'd probably be like a hundred dollars now do Lee that adds up. That's darting the sound like it could be a significant amount of money. So we know that he is buying twenty dollars worth of math and, however much you is on this annex that could be anywhere between six dollars to fifteen dollars, a pill and twenty hours for the math. Now the coke grandma coke, grandma. Coke is around sixty to eighty dollars and again, when you look at sky? He does not look like a drug user, not that anyone look
like a stereotypical drug user junkie in a corner, the guy is clean, cut, he's good, looking didn't he just get a degree like he was really well off like as far as the thing who is doing and live in recent years. He had achieved is degree he graduated, agnes come laude. He had a very good great point: average You seem to have a lot going for him did there's a term out there called functional junkie in that's, that uses a lotta drugs, but still functional, I don't even know if I would use the term junkie with him at all, because he was highly functional up until his last day on earth. So I dont know if he used so much that you would be considered a junkie. I don't know what that definition is, but I, say he was more probably right creational user and then addiction began to take hold and then
he had a really bad spell on a bad day when a bad combination in I love- and let me say this if my wife were to disappear tomorrow, go missing in her cars parked at a convenience, store and she's gone in a share. give me some short answer of oh she's on drugs and she ran off into the woods. I know my wife and I, never seen or use drugs. I would have a heart I'm swallowing this pill. I would have a really hard time, believing that she wasn't murdered, that there wasn't quote unquote foul play, but that's because I'm in the thick of it I'm in the mud, I I can't see clearly for what it is in this case. I I can't that I think that the cops murdered him and tried to cover it up or he was lynched by a gang of K, K, K, members or roving met
Ads or whatever the other exclamations of Ben, I think he actually arab psychotic break down on these drugs, and then they stopped his heart. Yet this is the tough part, as you have people who love this man respected em, losing someone one man. How clearly can you think and this is a lost that they're not over there their net. Going to be over his loss. You add in the fact that some of the people have seen what racism can do how it can harm harm people and and kill. People in that same area. There was a black man that was drug to death by three white racist asses that drug him behind their truck right. Bird yeah I mean I was in that was in ninety eight. I think, which isn't that long ago, it's not something you can t say: oh there's, no more races in america, no, it's alive and well
I understand why a mixed race couple would feel some tension down there absolutely right away. I may I would say you'll never get rid of all of it now so I can see why they can't swallow. They can't take this case in and accept what they're told they just can't do it, because one it means that their son, you know that we're talking with the parents here rosalind douglas their son was using drugs and it also means that he was responsible for his own death. These aren't things that they want to accept and tell me: how can blame them in his odd is. The circumstances and behavior are there is zero evidence that shows otherwise the tricky thing, because you had there's too much here and you can make a good case for why this is an accidental death, because
I can't see here and say that Alfred was mean to take his own life. I don't believe that no now, I think you could say is under pressure now where he would want to loot, not lose his life and be away from his wife and his kids. Now he loved them very much here's really when it comes down to it you drug use. I know some people are very, very biased, their prejudiced against, these results they or their losers, and I am sure that affects families, I'm sure this family, that's when the reasons they can't deal with this shouldn't people, how little more sympathy! for people, especially when he has a pretty good record overall. No, no. We already talked about educational background. He had been working as a physical therapist. He has clients, because disease is doing a good job and he has a great family so there p s lot on his side, but you know something
I'm we dont, given of credit to people that they are going through staff that we can't relate to the weak understand for one they're not sharing it and to maybe we're not an issue, so we don't understand the kind of pressure he's under so perhaps at the end of the story, it's not a saying ah well, you know he was murdered, are no. Is an accident? No, have some sympathy for this guy who lost at all. It's because he was having problems and we can't understand those problem. Bad or we can say, is the evidence leads us to believe that this I mean I, I think it was an accident and we just, I think, and it would do well for people- have some sympathy for those who are having trouble. Just condemning them? In now casting them away? Most people can use drugs with incident. For a very long time.
Show signs of it. A lot of people don't have this type of thing happen. So I I still would say this is an anomaly. This is rather bizarre, but it is tragic, do you hear that its little space from
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-16.