« The Generation Why Podcast

Bison Dele - 350


July 2002. Tahiti, French Polynesia. On July 6, 2002, Bison Dele, Serena Karlan, Miles Dabord, and Bertrand Saldo left the island of Tahiti bound for Raiatea and eventually Hawaii. They were on a catamaran named the Hakuna Matata owned by Bison. He had ended a lucrative NBA career in 1999 and set out to travel the world. He was joined in early 2002 by his girlfriend, Serena, and his brother, Miles. Bertrand was the captain of the boat. However, no one heard from the boat after July 8 and none of the passengers arrived in Raiatea. Where was the Hakuna Matata? An unexpected business transaction would hold the key to this mystery.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From wondering I dont another: I'm good. Just in how are you doing all right to the dennis today and found out that I've cracked one of my teeth in half. So I need to
crown, and I did a guess spot on the voice at a victim podcast. We both went out and saw the joker movie and give our thoughts on it so long discussion. So if you're wanting to hear that and our thoughts on it go check it out. I know this will probably come out a little while after this happened, but I was on let's talk about true crime with esther ludlow. So if you know esther from was about, crime. I was on her show and she devils, information out of me, so if you curious check it out, I'm curious a bad, for example. Listen to it yet, but low busy with cheap teeth, and will you probably already know all as information yeah? It's always good to hear you want another show, with no fees or minimums banking with capital. One is the easy decision in history of decisions even easier than
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weirdly now some people say tonight cases mysterious some people under about motives. I personally don't find the case mysterious at all, and I think motives are clear: we're talking about an mba player site, we're talking about bison delhi and bison Dele was probably most famous for being a member of the nineteen. Ninety seven, I believe chicago bulls, championship team which he arrived at. I think, nine days before they went into the playoffs and later he became one of the highest paid players of the detroit pistons. He retires early, buys a nice boat yeah, I'm assuming its really nice sailboat. He decides to go travelling and something terrible happens. When does it, No doubt this is in two thousand to, but really before we get in
all this. We should talk a bit about who mice in delhi why he was actually born brain williams and had a brother Kevin Williams, who is two years, his senior who had his name is well two miles: Debord bison chow his name because he wanted to honour the heron age of his ancestors and so His mother was native american, which is how he got bison. His father was black or african american. and so he used the name, delhi which I do believe we was the name of one his ancestors, who was a slave and it's, I have a cool name. Bison really stands out to me. Bison made a lot of his life. He got into this success career in the nba in our further. Rich person who doesn't know anything about sports. His numbers weren't huge, putting up Michael Jordan numbers but he's one of those key player.
With his size as athleticism, he makes a difference on the court he was so pop with with his coaches and people who work with them. That he's the kind of guy who could retire from mba. But if you want to come back he would be brought onto a team in a harpy. He just had to make a phone call. Why started what the denver nuggets. He moved on to the los angeles clippers and then the chicago bulls and then was the highest paid player for the detroit pistons. I read a couple articles saying he wasn't a star player which my how'd he become the highest paid player on a basketball team, but you're, not us. Our player sounds like the guy had ago and on again I think some people simplify it as well. He wasn't getting the most points and there
are players out there that score. Thirty five to forty eight points, a game whatever it is and sure they're huge stars, but sometimes you have to look at what the coaches are saying. and when you have coaches, like Phil jackson, swearing that this guy's one of the best you have to take their word for it. They know what they're talking about. So we already said that he was a success on the basketball court and you know that he ends up retiring early back. He retires what in his early thirties right, but I think he was thirty years old, which most people would consider the prime of your career, and he had already made iron of twelve to ten million dollars and he had another thirty six million waiting form. If he would have continued. that's an insane amount of money, but he doesn't. To be a money kind of guy, he seems to be about accomplishing
thanks and memories and experiences This is the real mystery for me is how did bison come to be because his pen, where Eugene williams and patricia phillips his mother seem devoted to her family, his father. You know had some issues, but he found success as well, because he was a member of the platter for a while. I guess they call it these, Second iteration of the group eugene, because He was doing this. The family would have to travel a lot, but eventually the apparent separated and the kids which will be given in writing at the time they live with their mom for a while. But then later he moved back with his dad. So there is a lot of back and forth travelling and There were a lot of issues. In fact, I think the second man that His mother Patricia settled down with she regretted it and she didn't really want to talk about him too much so
I guess, like any family, their issues, but for these kids it seem like. There was a bit of turmoil there. and so early on. It's like he went through all this, but then as he got in through his education he's the kind of that was interested in music and sports and philosophy and just love to read books, I think that might be one way you can escape your traumatic home life. Is you immerse yourself and other things and he obviously was one of those people, that's just a natural at anything. They do. We have some friends that just pick up a guitar and start playing like they played forever or can just drive to stick with zero effort and bison. I'd said that he played a trumpet stringed instruments, saxophone, even
pilots license, I mean come on talk about an exciting life. He was also into track and cross country, and this comes up up through as history has people say physically gifted, but I think the people I got to know norm knew him for his mind just an eye. Spend a while talking about his NBA career, for I don't watch basketball and I have zero appreciation for sports, so I don't want to. I don't think I could do it justice, but, as I read off his resume of teams, he played for man, I'm just gonna assume that he was a star player and he was awesome. The other thing I think we should it in part upon you- is that by sin didn't like living that life when it came time to live in a gated neighborhood, where all the other players lived. He didn't want he will live in you know how somewhere else, he didn't really hang out with that call.
amused friendly with his his other players, but you know if they're playing a game together like cards or something he was reading a book. He was elsewhere. There's a quote that he has and I've seen it in sports illustrated. Where he's talking about how he wishes. He had a passion for basketball, way miles, Davis had a passion for music, and I think, if there's a key here as to why he would retire early, is not just that he doesn't need fifty million dollars sixteenth enough. But it's also that now he played the game. He got a championship very early on. What else is there to play for not passion of to keep playing that game, whether as for money or for the points or for the team. He did part, and he was done with it he's right a move on and actually do the things he has passionate about.
went to see the world is been there done that got the shirt got the trophy now. What else can I accomplish? I get it and he was very humble. It said that he dated Madame At one point I wish my life was this exciting and full of interesting people, but, like you said he didn't like hanging out with celebrities so when he dated Madonna does she do you. I don't know how much you really dated her. They might have You know each other a little bit bed I mean the way I understand it. He was, literally the phone off after she called to his buddy and but he would just listen to her talk for a while and then he would hang up headscarf, in this wasn't interested in and that's another thing is he dated women but really find anyone who was passion about telly met, Serena Serena midnight, Carlin,
name serenest middle name came from the fact that when she was born the front half of her body came out beef, midnight and then the other half came out after midnight. That's why she was named midnight. Does she could to celebrate birthdays? but the other thing that really makes her stand out as she wasn't. the celebrities either when she is around bison. I think they had an instant connection. Way because she told him that she could be in a room full of people and she felt alone to that kind of I guess philosophy or something like that that really got his attention, what she hung out with celebrities. I mean she grew up on venice beach, which I spent a lot of time in southern california. You will end up at some point at a party where some celebrity will be there
You can meet them? She even new prince at the time and met him at night club and ended up working with them for a bit. That's pretty impressive, so definitely was hanging out with the celebs in the upper echelon. Her father said that celebrities were attracted to her because she wasn't impressed by them, which is, sort of funny? I think that celebrity ism is a falsehood. I think people can have big heads and not be famous, and I think that famous people can be humble and hate their celebrity ism, like myself, anyways so she's this down to earth person and Bison is down to earth there hanging on same circles right yeah. They met ninety ninety seven and it off, but bisons, always on the move. At that time he's gone from team to team. wasn't really away for them. They're kind of
really settle in together and and really date, but they kept in touch some point. I think it was when she was here with her mother and her mother was saying: don't let this opportunity get away? She could see how base in her had a real connection and the other funny thing was. She was telling bison that she's working this I dunno some kind of menial job and she's in debt. He just sent her fifty grand, and it said this is what I think about your debt boom. It's gone well and again, he's he's a very generous person, money's, not that important to him, he understands that when you're struggling when you're living, paycheck paycheck when you're just living a normal life, fifty thousand dollars will change. Your life will take all that stress away such a small amount of money to him, but it is
I've changing amount to anybody else, he's able to just help her, but this wasn't charity. I think to me. I think it was after it was. He was saying. I really suspend our life together. That's the way I take it. I could be wrong. It's most situations where it really seems to suggest fi their relationship and for a guy that had never seen interested in settling down. He really likes her any values her around two thousand one is and she was living in new york city By some saying, I want you to come, come and visit me in australia by the way could seize all over the world you're just we travel. We traveled this year to england and that was a long trip. I can't imagine travelling from new york to australia. Oh you have to travel into tomorrow, trip I'm sure are our strictly and fans are patiently waiting for us to come visit one day?
travel, and you go and meet friends or loved ones whatever it is. you always hear all you should stay longer. Oh no, I've got a flight. She stayed three longer than the two weeks that have been planned after she left a few weeks went by and bisons already saying you know what I'd like you here. All the time is when he sends her the money. This is the start of their life together. Essentially, bisons got a plan by This plan is to see the world and he's going to start with the south pacific. He wants her to go with him. Now. Bison has a boat captain and it's a guy named france aldo- I guess he's working for about- or grand a month, he's known as a very great guy, like spice in quite a bit too slow, ask I mean: can you imagine just sailing for weeks on end out in the south pacific? That's your job How hard it wouldn't be great. For me,
savages burn up in the sun, but it I get seasick. But what have you sound like a dream job? What was the name of this boat? They were sailing on her koona Natasha, I'm glad you said it may second too, listen to the coup. Natasha is sailing out from new zealand from auckland. I'm sure someone's essayist actually opened. How are you pronounce it after? I'm americans deal with it but Bertrand, happens there and then you have bison and you have serena. and then you also have miles which is bisons brother miles. He doesn't have the success that bison does He is more just a regular guy but bison in him to interact. They seemed somewhat civil with each other, a miles does how
some issues in life and he hasn't had the same opportunities as bison bison invite him along on this trip, sort of a hey. Let's spend some time together, come on the boat. Now Serena didn't seem to be the biggest fan, of miles. She seemed to think that miles would mooch off of bison or We ask him for money always asking for help and to be jealous of bisons success. I wouldn't know Anything about having a jealous sibling in my life? Well, then just serena that might have had an issue with miles. It was also the boat captain again. He was known as an easy going guy, but even here add some issues with miles, and he called him. I guess a trying shipmate well it's July. Fourth, two thousand and two
and they're gonna be sailing to hawaii, and this is a pretty long trip from new zealand a wire yeah they're, going to stop over an essentially french polynesia, restock, resupply goin to take time to enjoy the area and then hopefully, they'll get, the right wins still carry them to honolulu the boat captain called a friend, a friend of his on re eta, to say that he would be there in a few days. So we have, the timeline we know in few days, supposedly they should arrive means serenely and even I soon are telling everybody we're, probably gonna, be offline for it, because you don't get any cell phone perception in the middle of the ocean. So you don't hear from us. It's cool will touch base. We arrive now. There were some phone calls made from the who matata the last of it was arena calling her mother, her mother, lived in colorado now them
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life is carrying on as if nothing has happened in miles will show up at an airport in papa eight papa eat. Sorry from saying that wrong any meets his girlfriend erika knots on July. Eighth, of course, he's asking Well, where is your brother? He says: well him him in serena and the captain are visiting other islands. So he stays with his governor. At the pearl resort, and he just says you know wanted to continue on Erika was like well. I would like to me your brother, some time and, of course miles talks about how he's mistreated by his brother, how his brother always has strings attached to every, saying how is brother and the ship captain were mistreating him So Eric was likewise
Yes, I don't need it see. You meet your family or your brother. You put bison up on this pedestal I go he's a celebrity he's too good for me and he never helps and he gets everything handed tomb. He has all the success and it is not fair. I dont get that His girlfriend leaves on July fifteenth and Angela sixteenth miles makes a distress call and this is on, tahiti southeastern shore? His boat had run into the reef, he's the only one on the boat. and when help arise, they see this boat. It's a fifty five foot catamaran there's some damage to it, the boats name is the area bella, but this isn't the area bella looks remarkably like bisons boat right. It looks like they who Natasha, which, where else would he find about of this size and see.
Type type of vessel as one one brother brother had think. We can make an assumption here that it might be his brothers, both with a new name slapped on the side, now there's no sign of his brother Serena or the ship captain. but serene his mother gale by this point thinks it's been long enough and she's worried this time she's been re married to her second husband, Scott overrun. He contacts the fbi there's not really want to help. I guess I'm a he tries to get help, but and vice, and has this this reputation of he's, probably just gonna walk the grid for awhile he'll turn up at some point, and that's sad because you want to give somebody like that space. You dont want to worry about them, but the families don't know that his brother has shown up with the boat and none of them are around.
They don't know the extent of this all they know is they haven't heard from bison or serena, or anyone and several weeks This twenty second two thousand to Brian Williams, which is bison delhi's, former name contact. A certified mint store in the phoenix area he's wanting to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold points. There's a negotiation over the phone to get down to one hundred and twenty five. Ninety six and that's a hell of a check, justin yeah yeah, that's a lot of money. Of course you got to realize that bison or Brian Williams, I have been traveling, so he had to put travel alerts with his bank and with everyone. So when this check is getting cleared for one hundred and twenty five thousand plus dollars? Well, let's just say the bank
but the little red flag on that right now have. It seems a little odd, so they contact someone that is an assistant bisons named Kevin porter and he's looking at the check, but he's looking at it and thinks wait a minute. This has Different address and it's an address in miami florida and is also a different phone number, so porter does word. I guess most be would do, is less this call that number so who answers, person whose and this is just a voicemail massive says that its be by it- can import. Knows bison, and he knows it not him. It doesnt recognise the voice, so he says, let's put a stop to this check right now, but he and the certified meant contact the phoenix police. So what they do is they decide. This is definitely not bison d,
if he were going to kind of put together a sting here, whoever this guy is, they await his arrival. Well, yeah. We actually call him and say: hey your coins are ready, come and get them, so somebody claiming to be bison is going to show up and get these coins or really get some handcuff september. Fifth, two thousand and two. The man arise its sometime in the afternoon, probably around one thirty. He has by williams passport. He has his credit cards. But he is most definitely not by the looks of em bison belly. or Brian Williams. Instead, there detaining miles his brow and this isn't a shock right and we said the beginning stubbornly a mystery. No, so
His brother goes on a boat with them sailboat with him. His brother shows up with that boat with a different name on the side and bison serena, and the captain are nowhere to be found in his tone. does girlfriend erika that they're off travelling to different islands, and they left me, but now he has his boat. He has his passport and he's trying by over a hundred thousand dollars worth of gold coin by the way gold coin, not the best investment, it doesn't fluctuated all. what price you're not gonna make any money is going to cause you more to store it than you will make money on it. I dont think. Does the butler vest, analysing anyways. The police want to talk to miles the board when their speaking with them, they say this is very suspicious. You ve got his passport. Does this huge check, that's being read now, for these gold coins was gone.
and he says: oh well, my brother sent me to collect it. He's busy travelling and I'm just saying care of his business for him. So the people these are also reaching out trying to reach bison, but of course they can't reach him. If he's out off grid out on the ocean. How are they going to reach and they don't know about the boat they dont know any of the background here. All they have is miles is word right, but even if they know these out there, how are they expected to reach him? If you- calling similar they're, not answering it's not evidence of anything right so In the end, they decide to release him, which is a huge take. I think, because if you have someone passport and your claiming to be that person and The information on the check is changed to a whole address and phone number. It's how suspicious, I would say: that's probable cod
But what do I know? I think this is where, even though the police didn't act at that moment, this is where the seriousness of what may have happened finally kicks and there's a search made, all they really have. Is they know that serene called on July eighth, and they know bisons habits, he typically emailed people every month by months have gone by and no one's heard from him around this time patricia and bison had become estranged, so He and his mom kind of how to falling out the fan dynamics can change, he's a grown man, successful he's tried to help his mother out. Try doubtless brother out and arduous and long standing issues. There is. One more reason he wanted to go so the world, because he need to get away from all that stuff, but you can't be a
world renowned, mb, a player and just disappear off the map, somebody's going to notice and it's July, two thousand and two. When the news broke, that retired m b, a player and his two companions have disappeared in the south pacific. That's it. I mean it's worldwide news, but where do you search that malaysian flight went down? They couldn't even the whole airplane for a long time. How are you gonna find people so bison his mother had had kind of a falling out a bit. They weren't, corresponding. There wasn't unexpected correspond. So when the police are asking hey? What do you know about your son? When have you heard from she said it was at her mothers funeral or around, that time that she last heard from him, She had last seen her son in january of nineteen ninety nine at her mothers funeral. and the last contacts you ever had with them was email that she
Saved on may thirtieth of two thousand to the fbi, and the two haitian authorities, their working investigations into the disappearance of bison, the beau cap, an answer: rina, the police college, the to say well. His brother was retain the be him and had attempted by some a large my bowl coins, but we released him. So the The eyes like out we're gonna go look for him. Meanwhile, that haitian authorities are trying to find the who to Natasha september seventh or eighth miles. The board went to Palo alto. And he tried visiting his girlfriend. He lived date her on what has been going on and he seemed very distraught. Something was bothering him, so he started to confide in her work confess to her. Whatever word you wanted, is he said that he and his brother bison got into a fight and that while they
Were arguing in fighting sir came over to try and break it up by an accidently knocked her down and shit. dying after she struck her head. I love how he says: bison knocked her down. Not he knocked her down. and then the boat captain said we're going to have to go into port and I'm going to have to report this. The authorities, because there has been a death bison, didn't this idea so using a ranch, he beat his boat captain to death and then because miles fell like he was next. He shooting bison with his own gun self defence. So they got into a struggle. Bison was the one bumped into serena and knocked her down, which that fall, killed her and then ice in went crazy and killed the boat captain, and then he had to defend himself now. Ok,
I see a lot of distancing yourself from all this chaos happening. I'd start to think of Robert durst and his neighbour and getting a bone sigh saying? While you know this happened, and I had to deal with it so miles now knowing that all these people are dead, says no one's gonna believe my story. So what does he do? Next? Erin Well, he secured weights naser body building weights. To each of the bodies and then pushed them into the water. This is into the ocean. Then he headed off to meet up with his girlfriend. So Erika does the right thing, because she is calling the authorities meanwhile miles leaves and heads off to mexico. So miles initially said they were off visiting other islands. Then he shows up at the
with a different name on it and then tries to buy a hundred thousand dollars with a gold coin, and now he's facing that he had to kill his brother in self defence, because his girlfriend fell down and died and miles went crazy and killed evoke happen just to keep you all up to speed here on how ridiculous system sounds september tenth or eleven of two thousand two miles called his mom and he said, I found something and I tried to cover it up, but I didn't do what they're saying. No one will believe me he's running suicide and he's too honor. I wouldn t kill my brother I can say is, I think, he's trying to win over mom there is a warrant at this point for his arrest. The fbi is looking for him on September, twelve two thousand too tahitian authorities, figure out the kuna matata
now the area bella and when they inspect the boat they find that there are some holes that had been patched in it those are bullet holes right. We now know he claims he shot, brother in self defense self defense air quotes there for everybody. But we don't know house ina died or how the boat captain died because he dumped their bodies? Using satellite phone data, the investigator Here's pinned down the last the location of the boat. in the time that, by sin serena and the boat captain went missing. It was near a small island. I think it's cold mile or MAO its west of tahiti, This was on July, sixth or seventh. There's a search going on four miles. The fbi is working with the mexican police.
nay, storm a hotel where they think miles is staying, but he's not there september fifteenth, around eleven thirty, a m there's a man found unconscious on the beach. In tijuana they bring him to the local hospital and they're trying to treat him. They think he's just a drunk tourist yeah I'll call, poisoning whenever there not sure but he's not responsive. They notice that he has blistering, which suggests that he hasn't been moving for a while, so he's been on the sand he's been exposed to, land water, the sun They don't know who he is. It takes a while for them to figure who the skies and they labour law, John doe? At that point september, nineteen thousand to their children. step. Police in California went at the hospital
This John doe was being cared for and they're going to do a fingerprint check on him he's identified as miles to board. They figure out that he Most likely is suffering from or dying from, an insulin overdose. So he's in a coma, yes number twenty, two thousand to the authorities, attempted to arrest him as he was in his car but a couple days later they withdrew that arrest warrants because well he wasn't going to becoming out of his coma and meanwhile in tahiti, There are literally looking at wherever this boat had been and their searching their doing their best to try and find any evidence of vice. If Serena or of the boat captain and still no sign of them, but on sept.
we're twenty sixth ten, a m in the morning miles is taken offline support and he will end up passing the next day three of his friends were with him when he died and his mother. Actually arrived just minutes after he passed His autopsy actually lists his manner of death as inconclusive, but again There are a lot of rumours in people that port that it was a insulin, overdose. Other toxicology reports, though list opiates, the president's aunt. I anxiety meds in a system, so he too those and drink on top of it that can be illegal, combination to with the death of miles we're just left with questions? So at this point
you think. Well, all we have to go on is that myles said that he added she does brothers out the fence, and it was the tragedy because it all started with an argument, but no one believes this. I mean you, don't accidently, kill your girl friend and then kill the boat captain. And then your brother kills you and then your brother runs off and tries to spend a hundred some vows. Now's your money to get gold coins is It doesn't add up once again its he. his brother and then dumps all their bodies with weights this is so reminiscent of Robert durst killing his neighbor buying a bow saw. in cutting his neighbor up and then dumping his body in the ocean and then claiming self defence
this is the same story here yet miles actually purchased. Those waits before the trip I guess he was planning on working out on the boat. What does that say when you ve purchased the exact item that you used to dispose of the bodies with, for the vacation. Most of you know: I've been an audible subscriber for like a decade now, audible offers an incredible action of audio books across every genre. I personally love the audible originals. They have everything from top celebrities. down experts and, as an audible member, I get access to a growing selection of audio books, the originals podcast, it's all included in my membership, I get one title a month to keep and I get to hear exclusive podcast that I can't find anywhere else. I just but the audio book anti social about online
extremism, techno utopians and the hijacking of the american conversation. Audible hope you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days does audible dot com, slash gaeta, BP were text gaeta, BP, two five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot com, slash cheetah, BP or text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred to try audible free for thirty days We'll dot com, slash, gaeta beauty and the other problem was, if you take his story at face value and you compare it to the evidence collected from the boat after the authorities got a hold of it they found absolutely no evidence that Bertrand, the boat captain was beaten to death as was described by miles to board because getting beaten to death with a ranch. That'll leave a lot of blood spatter everywhere and they used in fine that we'd never got de reenact
of how this struggle happened and how Serena fell and hid her head. I mean it's just absurd when people This is a mysterious case. I dont see the mystery. I think it's very straightforward when people question what was the motive, I mean it's obvious. It was the money. Not only was it the money, I can only imagine mile being that less than sibling, whose watching his brother get all the gold get all the women by the boat sell around the world. What's he got skype pot of beans and his brother has everything. Anyhow some four miles tried differ businesses he try being an entrepreneur. Nothing ever worked out for him. He himself would have been a great athlete. They say, except he had severe asthma. So he was constantly held back and I think we can obviously ass bison, but it be no bison might have said in this respect
but I could see him saying it's all in his mind We want something you should go do it, but this billy boils down to jealousy if you that angry about someone having more than you. What are you willing? Do about it some pillar, wind kill, and if you add in that he was buying hundreds of hours worth awaits before he goes on this trip. And these ways are all gone because he hastened away down the bodies premeditated and my mind as premeditated. puts everyone else in a tough spot, because it's only miles the board who wanted to see bison day. I mean even the mom when she's ass Patricia she said, I'm the mother of both of these men here she didn't want this she's lost both her sons. This a tragedy for that family all were left with. Is greed? That's what have here. It's not a mystery, though a mystery to me is how did bison come to be,
You said maybe it is as simple as he use books to get away. that was his escape and use music to get away? He happened to be a very good athlete in that set him up for life, but his brother- and this has happened before we know we covered the case of mark hacking. Why did he kill he was about to be found out because he couldn't make it like his siblings. Could he had probably in his own head the press, sure of his entire family being successful, and so he was trying to fake it till he made it and in the case of miles the board yet couldn't make it along the way. Bison even gave him some money here and there to try and kick start a business or something it didn't work out, an serena sawdust, your other people that are not in the family. They see it. Clearly, like your brother or your family members
a good person and they're using you and their manipulating you, but their family, their blood. So you have that entrenched obligation that you're supposed to help I'm telling you right now, you don't, but it's hard, see that when you're in the relationship, when it is your blood but yeah, No, you can remove yourself from toxic people and it doesn't matter if they're a family member And bison was just a good, generous person. Sadly, that's who these toxic manipulators will target and that's who they will take advantage of, and you know if they did have a fight. can see that fight having to do with vice and telling his brother and I'm not gonna, just keep giving money. I'm cut you off
it may be. That is something that he wasn't willing to listen to and that's what sent him over the edge. But he probably would have been told that before the trip, because why bile these waits? Is he really going to work out on this There is a term that I heard once in my lifetime. It was called set trip, meaning you set a trip for somebody for them to trip over. In other words, to start a fight with you to start a confrontation with you, so they trip over your set rip and I'm assuming miles went out there with the intention of causing this argument of getting himself riled up. Do you get the courage or the the reason to go through with this murder? I think he planned at the whole time. I don't think this way, a spur of the moment. If they did argue, then it was all planned. I said earlier that miles the board had tried,
the ever ways to make money to start businesses and he just couldn't keep up a just war, in working out for him- and maybe this was his final- get rich quick scheme kill my brother. Take his money, and if I'm lucky then I can assume as identity and just live on easy street. I have that life that I always wanted. It's right there, You said there is not really a mystery here. I said I think, there's some mystery to how bison ended up the way he was, and I lot of respect for the way that he handled himself. I think it's awesome that he listen just worried about accumulating wealth. This idea, sixteen million hours is enough and he doesn't need fifty or sixty that he has other pursuits. He must see the world he probably to settle down with this woman that he's in love with and that she's changed her life for That says a lot. I have a lot of sympathy for patricia philips. Who is?
by sin and miles as mother, because sure she's had her issues, but she lost both of her sons and a relatively short amount of time. As she says it they're alive, questions that the fbi, that the phoenix police that that the haitian authorities have to figure out, but for her she It wants to know what was going on inside diverse sons, mines. wants to know what was happening with her boys. That, for her, is the real mystery.
It feels like we're living in the golden age of scammers from an adele v to the tinder swindler. These stories are almost impossible to believe, but they're amateurs next to Zubair sickly from one dirty and pineapple street studios comes the new true crime, podcast persona, the french deception, the untold story of one of the greatest criminals of the twenty first century, a man who conned the world's most powerful billionaires corporations and even religious leaders out of hundreds of millions of dollars. They all thought they were smart enough to spot a con, but they had no idea who they are dealing with. Do you hear the full story? Follow persona the french deception wherever you get your pike ass or you can listen early on amazon, music for early and ad free by subscribing to wondering, plus it apple pod gas, for the wonder, YAP.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.