December 31, 1993. Richardson County, Nebraska. In the fall of 1993, Brandon Teena, a transgender man from Lincoln, moved to Falls City, Nebraska to avoid legal trouble and make a fresh start. While there, he befriended a small group of friends and dated multiple women. On Christmas Eve 1993, John Lotter and Thomas Nissen, two of those friends, confronted Brandon about his gender identity. Bigotry and hate defined what followed. Join us as we discuss a triple murder that could have been prevented and the life of the young man who was targeted. This case was the basis of the 1999 movie Boys Don’t Cry and a centerpiece of trans rights in the 1990s, 2000's and beyond.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From wondering Wondery, pretty good Justin. How are you feeling I'm okay so a lot of listeners. Don't know that we have a website and a blog some. Do we decent amount of visitors, I suppose, but
good idea to bring it up again. Recently. There was a case, and this one is from April fifth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty four involving a pleasant valley teenager named Tina, fails. She had disappeared on her way Now this is a familiar story to people who are true crime fans and she was later found dead in a drainage tunnel and it suffered a knife attack, or so it appeared they got a in the case in two thousand and eleven, when dna was matched against someone already in the system. man by the name of Steve Carlson and he lives. Very close to Tina He has now decided to confess. And you can read the entire interesting story on our blog at GEN Y pod dot com, We have a new blog post every week and It's with the assistance our blog writer Lindsey
Lindsay's awesome go check out all of her blog posts, and we have a bunch of March out there too with no fees or minimums banking with capital? One is the easiest decision in history of decisions even easier, then deciding to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast with no Overdraft fees, is it in a decision that banking reimagined, what's in your wallet terms, apply see, capital, one dot, com, Slash bank capital, one in a member after I see your weight is not your fault even if I've been trying to lose weight for years meet calibrate the science back programme that proves, since interval weight loss does not come from willpower. It's about biology, calibrate works differently by addressing metabolic factors with F approved doctor prescribe medications and one on one video, coaching, calibrates its members lost fourteen percent of their body weight on average, get fifty dollars off. Calibrates metabolic reset, when you
promo code today at join, calibrate doc. Come visit join cholera. dot com for availability and eligibility. Their errand, I would never claim ever to know what it's like to be a minority or to be gay or trans, I just don't have that perspective I will say, though, that growing up in the midwest in the late eighties. Early nineties, as a skater punk, I will treated very well and Most of my friends were of different backgrounds, whether it be Filipino hispanic, gay trans, whatever whatever we were doing we figured out our place in the world that we had escaped board in our hands. Is what bonded us altogether, but that seems a board was the reason society treated as so poorly cause back, then
skating was considered a crime he was considered. I don't know you were just drag of society at that point, and we were bullied jumped, that was almost on a monthly basis. We would we'd have the police called on us for being a nuisance, and we were not viewed as one thousand four hundred and fifteen year old children. We were viewed as criminals that were loitering and trespassing vandalizing because he didn't have anywhere else to go because skateboarding wasn't allowed anywhere. We have to just go to Lots what not now, unlike a lot of my friends, I could put that skateboard down, I can put on a Chiefs Jersey and I would be treated Emily at that point, but my friends were not able to put down their skateboard As I would say, they were a minority. They were gay, they were trans, so there
to live without all their lives and be treated. That way, and with that What are we talking about tonight, Aaron tonight we're talking the murder of Brandon Teena, I will say that I remember seeing the movie boys don't cry when I was younger. I did not. Rewatch it because I didn't know how much the movie was factual and how much was Hollywood, so I have not seen the movie recently, but if any has seen that movie. This is the real story. The true story that that movie was based on there is a dock, Mentary about this case, I would say what the movie did, though it allow the common person in America to get a glimpse. Into the life of someone who was transgender and
that's not an easy thing to do. That's the power of Hollywood. Can capture people's imaginations? It can bring up their emotions, so other movies, not exactly factual. I think it did have some effect. and I think it did go some way toward making. A little bit more understanding now, obviously, fix everything, but I think it helped so when and where does this happen? This happen in Humboldt Nebraska in December of nineteen. Ninety three Brandon Teena was twenty one years old at the time, Tina Renee Brandon was born December. Twelfth nineteen he too too, sixteen year old, Joanne, Brandon and Lincoln Nebraska Brandon had an older sister named Tammy, who born when Joanne was fourteen, The father was Patrick Brandon. He died in nineteen. Seventy two from
alcohol related car accident. He was only nineteen, that's a way to enter this world now, after her husband, death Joanne, move back in with her mother and relied on social security checks just before Brandon second birthday, join got married. A second time at the age of nineteen, the marriage lasted five years, but The family was extremely poor, living well below the poverty line in a variety of mobile home parks Joanna Did you graduate from local community college, but was often sick and was forced, to go on disability, very young age? Both for children would end up attend? the local Catholic School in Lincoln and between one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven and one thousand nine hundred and eighty one Brandon was fine, to nine years old brand was molested by an uncle
Tammy said she was also sexually abused. by the same uncle. Neither report where did it to their mother or authorities after puberty, though brand began to realize that she was transgendered and started, taking measures to affirm this, and for clarity will be referring to Brandon as male with mass when pronouns for the rest of this episode, but brain in is having what was called a sexual identity crisis and it's not really surprising because I mean we might see it differently now, but back then people weren't, just as transgender, there wasn't a very common thing and also there, wasn't a lot of understanding for even those that were going through it, they know how to express themselves so allow confusion, and it also made for a difficult life, absolutely
because when you're born one way- and you want to live another back- then you have to live a lie. You have to be. I guess disingenuous to others, because you know your own truth. Yet Europe trying to get other people to accept you as a different gender and back in 80's and nineties. This wasn't understood this. Wasn't a thing when Bree was a teenager, Brandon completed. High school was actually expelled just days before graduation. He was in a variety of homes, but one of his Tracy STAR the suspect that Brandon was stealing from her and asked him to leave so Brandon had to move back in with his mom. After that random tried to find work, he got a fake I D and the reason he got a fake id was so that he could be a male because he
was born as Tina Renee Brandon, it was in, ninety ninety in December, when a girl all called his house. She had the wrong number. Her name is Liz and brandy said the phone, but answered it as Billy Brinson, which was his alias that he would use as a mail, so they we're talking on the phone and then they eventually got together to go roller skating, and after that he met a fourteen year old girl named Heather now, whenever anyone would call and ask for Billy Graham, I would say: there's no one here by that name and that's p, she didn't want to quote unquote play that game. only refer to Brandon as her her daughter or Tina. So Brandon moved out and started living with Heather and her mother, Ruth they both operate, I was a boy, but Joanne was upset,
by what Brandon was up to and left angry messages on roofs answering machine to the point where she, called the police on Joanne. Joanne was saying: Heather Brandon were lesbians and that Brandon actually her daughter, but no one her now. He went on to date, lots of different young girls- he would treat them all very well. They would even have sex now. Brandon wanted to buy a lot of these young women gifts. He wanted to wine and dine them. You wanted take them out but Brandon didn't make a lot of money. So he began stealing from friends and acquaintances, forging x the lincoln This department would end up. resting, I'm several times for misusing atm cards and forging the checks Many of the charges would end up getting dismissed and it was by that time that he dropped the.
the prince, a name and just went by Brandon born. Brandon you just Flipper Brandon. it's easy to remember it's easy to go by and JANET one. Ninety! Ninety two, though there was a suicide attempt, Brandon swallowed a bottle of antibiotics, and was to the hospital to try and save him. He was put on suicide watch at the Lancaster County crisis center. He was for about a week and was dying I was there with a gender disorder and an adjustment. It's order and I think This was one of those moments where Brandon probably then some more time thinking about exactly what was going on with himself who he was, and he would bring up that there was a sexual identity issue with him with all he's pending charges. He would end up being convicted of second degree. Forgery, and sentenced to eighteen months of probation,
undergo counselling, get us he d and payback. One hundred and eighty dollars in zero dollars and forty nine cents to bonanza where he had passed the year fraudulent checks. He went to therapy various times on and off and at this point is when he revealed that He was molested at a very young age by his uncle was event Lee terminated from the court mandated counselling the fairest wrote She told so many different versions of things. It was hard to know what to believe. further therapy is unlikely to help kind of sad. It sounds like the therapist gave up on Brandon well, another ass, though dying some with transsexual ism and a personality disorder, and it was September of ninety three. When Brandon was again arrested, he had forged a bank slip, and a warrant was issued for his arrest after he violated his probation, petty
I'm spot keeps getting in trouble. So brain, looks for a fresh start and moves about eighty miles south of Lincoln to Richardson County Nebraska. It's the South EAST, one state, that's border by Missouri and Kansas, not a very big town population, ten thousand Brandon move into a one story. Farmhouse a mile South Humboldt Nebraska. Now this House was rented by a LISA Lambert who he was As with she had a nine month old Son Tanner There are also two other people living there, Carrie Gross and her boyfriend MIKE everyone. There assumed that Brandon was a man because that's how he was living after move to Humboldt he in LISA. Started dating, though it didn't last long. He started dating other women in December of nineteen. Ninety three: He met a woman by the name of Lana Tisdale, now he's dating her by
the real reason his relationship ended with LISA was because he failed to show up for a twenty first birthday party and that was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back so LISA said I want you out of my house so Brandon to Linda's home in falls. City Linda is Lana's. Mother he also met guys, John Lauder and Marvin. Thomas Nissan, who really went Thomas or Tom, they went driving cars. They were looking for girls, you name it brand didn't stay out of trouble, though in late. Ninety ninety three: he ended up in an accident the car. He was driving had a wreck police showed up, he was cited for a minor in possession of an open bottle of alcohol because he was still just twenty at that point, but he gave officers the wrong name. He said that he Charles Chas and offered driver's license supporting that, but it was actually his cousins driver's license, not good.
person ate somebody else lie to a cop and then It was on December 15th of nineteen. Ninety three in the afternoon he was out of here. for those charges. Pleading not guilty was released as he was leaving a sheriff's deputies came up. it and said, hey Charles, you need to come upstairs. It's and at that they confronted Brandon about three checks that had been cashed at both branch of the first Federal Bank of Lincoln those checks it to carry gross, carry grow, had lived at the House with LISA, while he there. He had access to her checkbook he's his Miranda rights and he confessed, though he's around said for a second degree, forgery, but here's the problem for Brandon, and was placed in the women's section of the jail so, when Lana his girlfriend showed up to visit him he's in the women's section of the jail and, of course,
when he leans over. She noticed said he has breasts because bring a prison uniform, so she He now feels betrayed and lied to She was also in denial because was really enjoying her time with Brandon. So it was kind of caught in the middle of this. Her father had given mana check given her a check to buy makeup supplies, he didn't know how much it would cost. So it was a blank check. She asked turned around and use that check to bail Brandon out of jail. She actually just wrote in the IMF which I think was like two hundred and fifty bucks once again Brandon, is he's in danger of ruining his reputation because now Linda, doesn't want him there. This is the talk of the town, now Brandon's a female and lying to everybody. Acting like a man and
people are either ups. About this or now feel. I guess entitled to go out brand presenting a different way. I mentioned earlier that Thomas Neeson and John Lauder had befriended Brandon Design, twenty second thousand. Ninety three Thomas Neeson Bail brand, of jail using that money that Laana had provided because she was too young to sign the bond. So that point Brandon was welcome to go over and stay with Thomas and his wife candy, because of this whole fear. go of is Brandon It were a girl, it's this underlying tension now and on. Four twenty fourth, nineteen, ninety three, Thomas and Candy through a Christmas Eve Party at their house, bread, in long Leslie John and a few others were all their John,
Thomas decided that they wanted to prove whether brand was male or female, they were being him at first and just pushing them against the wall and saying what are you? Let's see it and when Brandon wouldn't go along with it. They- forced him into the bathroom beat him him in the face. Kick them and then does pants and Underwear Brandon was able to leave briefly, however, John and Thomas grabbed him and took him back at the house and they salted him again in the bathroom and then they dragged him outside too. John's Crown VIC, they would drive a country road and then get stock, because it's December that there's some snow and mud on the ground that this big car can't get out of and a
we're, comes out and helps pull them out of the mud, but they events, Italy will just park and that point they Brandon and lay him down on the back seat and they ripped off his clothes and they take, turns raping him after this they'll drive back to the house they'll, lock Brandon in the bathroom, and they told him clean up day off I threatened to kill him if he went to the police and around five for six: a dot m Brandon and to take a shower. He climbed down the bathroom window, so you know Turning on the shower to muffle the sound of him escaping at this point, because he used his foot to break the window. You gotta realise realize that he's been beaten, battered raped and he probably does have some water on him because of the shower in its time. need degrees outside
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reacted and responded to her. That's when she knew that they had attacked and raped him. You would think at this point that when the police department, into this- that they would take one look at Brandon who had spouse and bruising on his face? His lip was cut. There was a welt on his back in the shape of a boot print that they would say there was a crime here? You would think that They were even told that a rape kit had been done and that Semen was found this it didn't turn out. Well, though, Justin I must say that read into this case that it sheriff seemed more concerned with Brandon's. And gender ISM, then whether a crime has been committed, Yeah. If you were watched documentary or Google. This youtube it. You can find the audio
from this interrogation and I'm u the term interrogation, because it was a harsh direct, irrigation of Brandon, the victim and some of language used is. Why do you make girls, think you're, a guy and so when they got ready to poke you how You positioned in the back seat. Is this how police talk to rape victims is this? how you would go about questioning a victim of a crime? You are mocking You dismiss them, you ask them What position you are and before you got poked, let that Lincoln and I don't care if it's one thousand nine hundred and ninety three or two thousand and three or two thousand and twenty three even care care, its one, nineteen, seventy three that's not how you treat a victim ever
Also, during this interview, the sheriff Brandon Why do you run around with girls and not guys Brandon responds with joy. To answer that and he says yeah if I'm going to take at the I got to understand, what's going on with you Brandon says I have sexual identity crisis and adapt the sheriff says. Can you explain that. I realise that we understand Transgender, is today, but if you just break the words sexual identity crisis when you're, Asking somebody why behaving as another gender. I think it's pretty self, explanatory, and it really goes to show the intellectual level that this sheriff is working on. If he can't break a simple words. We about how it's difficult enough for someone who's having a section identity crisis at a young age it's like that and then
questioned and interrogated by a sheriff. I mean what must be like it's almost The sheriff is demanding these answers when Brandon may not know exactly how to answer them. Even if he wanted answer them, but this sheriff thinks I don't understand this person in front of me, so I'd rather question them about their stance in life and society, then, whether or not they were actually attacked by two ruthless men and this share didn't. Attempt to arrest Tom Nissan or John Lauder, it's send out a deputy to the plant, which was where, and was attacked, this deputy did find corroborating evidence? condoms pair of socks and some beer cans. The sheriff Had some witnesses interviewed spoke with? These two men, but nothing came of it. In the meantime, Brandon spoke
his mother and his sister, saying I'm afraid, because these two guys raped me the share isn't arresting them and threaten my life. Brandon's mother Joanne was horrified and she said Why wouldn't he arrest them? They threatened you they've raped you. What want? What does it take? I mean I can go ahead and answer that question that it takes a sheriff Who actually cares about the victim actually believes that a crime took place actually wants to do their job and those the things have not been met here and, let's be clear. These two men, Thomas Nissan and John Lotter, were her on this twenty eight, the deputy, and the other officers there felt like they had information to arrest them. these two had admitted to taking Brandon's clothes off to get to the truth and assaulting him
so he felt like that was enough, but the sheriff disagreed the day after the show, spoke to Neeson and Lauder. The sheriff asked Brandon, I'm back in for another. Your view now Justin branded did Go to this interview I'm sure you understand why I think everyone would understand why, when you're being re, victimized questioned as you're the criminal as if you're, the one that did something wrong Brandon afraid for his life Brandon went somewhere He thought would be safe. He went to LISA Humboldt House Number thirty, first thousand. Ninety three: this was ten in the morning LISA's mother went to the house, but the front door was open the front door. I think had been kicked in. She heard the little tanner crying inside he was just nine months old.
So she went in there is a man sitting on the living room floor in front of the couch he had been shot. He was dead, now in the documentary she refers to this man as the inward and says that she didn't really see anything out of place, as he continued through the home. I mean let down and think in a dead, blackness and in a living room, and she just walked on through yeah the band's name was Philip Devine. He was a friend of LISA's. He was visiting Now, anime went past him into the bedroom, where she she picked them up and look. around, and she found LISA face up on the water bed. She was not moving. There was blood. all over her face and Other person was lying at the foot of the bed, the better When punctured. Water was everywhere. The carpet was soaking wet. She did,
stay in the room. She just left with the child. When the dining room and placed a call to the Humboldt police. She replied. that she was her daughter's house and there we're bodies there because she was an emergency. Medical technician is trained on how to act at a crime scene. So she did the right thing: She didn't touch anything. She just made sure that the baby was They care of and had a bottle that's the most credit I can give her Philip do you talked about. He had been shot twice one of the shots when his head above his right, eyebrow and LISA was shot several times too twenty two: a brain d, dot c. Were from very close range Brandon was shot under the chin twice one Fractured, is left jaw and at the base of his brain blows, right eye and the other had exited blow his right ear?
He was also stabbed in the chest. This is a terrific scene. Unfortunately, I've seen these pictures that think it's important to What was done to the people in this house when you move on to the people who had perpetrated these crimes so you can put some context in this case now. obviously Brandon was the intended target, so he was killed First LISA. Was witness to the murder, so she was killed second and then as they were, leaving Divine was in the living room, so he probably waited for his life and They were not going to leave any witnesses and they showed no mercy. The investor haters, they notice that the front door been bashed in this was obviously an invasion, but They didn't notice anything missing, so
robbery was not a motive here, but these people looked like they have been executed. Listing to free personal, triple homicide, multiple weapons used and The police are now on the hunt for the perpetrators. I think they have a. Good lead on who did this? I don't know Maybe it was the two men that were accused of raping Brandon just prior. Neeson, gave a statement to police on December thirty first and said that he and Lauder went to the farmhouse to scare Brandon because he had attempted get them arrested and they asked Did you and Lauder kill the people that we found at the farmhouse Nay said nodded his head, and so he said, to give them details about their day together. He said that after in Lahti had left a bar. They
to his house has some food and then he of lawyer to another house where lot or new guy and why? there he stole a gun that was being kept in a lockbox and then from there. They wanted to take care of Brandon Gordon said he said you can do that don't hurt anyone else, so they drove to the house. This was about to clock in the morning and they work gloves, not so as not to leave fingerprints and they broken the front door they found LISA lying in bed and there HU, a baby Mason said he picked baby up to quiet it. Gave it to LISA, but he had taken the bay, I began putting in the crib. This is where things turn really bad. Brandon was on the floor, trying to hide under a blanket and argh broke out according to Neeson Lauder, shot Brandon, then of where's. The other two were shot.
Divine was actually taken into the living room and shot there, and then Nissen went back to his house so, along the way, though he said they threw out the pair of gloves the box, the gun, as well as the knife, Ethan the knife, after passing a bridge so law enforcement said: let's go check that actually went there and they were able to recover those items. A sheath from the if used- and it was marked with the name- Lauder hello. Tt are they were? it for three counts of first degree, murder. So in December thirty, first and Jan at first they not two men in custody, but they also had the murder weapons disks I was gonna blow up, but they definitely couldn't keep it in false city. They had to select the jury in Omaha, find some way to make this fair for the two men you can
Jim, that with these statements given by both Tom, Nissen and John. This is not the kind of case that you expect them to get away with it. whatever you might think about this being case about transgender ism, and it's double homicide. It's not just Brandon who was murdered, there's two victims here, a jury. Even in a small town, isn't going to look at this and think, oh well, we're going to let these guys walk March. Ninety Ninety five Thomas NICE and was convicted of one count of first degree, murder and two counts of second degree murder. He agreed to a plea deal and that's: b he was going to testify against his buddy John Lauder, so they d his sentencing, because these two men were being tried separately now he was ultimately, given ten years to life for each of the second degree, murder, charges and life without the possibility of parole for the first degree murder charge in
we have ninety ninety six John Laughter's trial. This was again winning shut case. the question here was who did what but again have Thomas Neeson, who said I'll talk so Tom, gave testimony and said it was a combined idea, me and John Lauder arrived at it by talking about going on and on with the conversation, they said that plan to get away with it. to chop her hands and her head off in order that the body be identified, so they took Patchett a rope and a change of clothing in the event that got blood on themselves. So they then drove up to Lincoln and staked out the three different homes that Brandon was staying at from time to time they had I need addresses from an address book that Brandon left behind at Neisen's house, so they were both actively seeking out Brandon
hunting him down? And how long these two men known each other before they assaulted and raped Brandon well before the met, Brandon, they'd, only known each other for days, nothing like a bunch bigotry and hate to bring people together. I guess well, Corny Thomas. They still needed to have liquid courage, because the five days between the attack on Brandon and then the murder of Brandon LISA and Philip. They were drinking heavily. Then they were route to the various homes to collect the items they needed the John Laughter's mother's home, that's where they got the life and work gloves, and then they went a friend's house where John took a thirty eight by handgun. It was Linda, apparently, who gave away Brandon was at so really This was more confession. really there's. No. Wait here to really save water and that's because there's there's, not really think a point to here.
It's an open and shut case. They did offer plea deals to get them to against each other to get him to testify against them. You know one point, some of the. U S, marshals that were brought in to investigate this case. They said it. Can be considered a weak case for the prosecution, so smug we don't like doing plea deals. We felt we had to and I in this case, even the plea deals. They had charge them with enough that just was going to be served, there were some more details about the crimes that came out during John's trial actually hid in the second bedroom and after LISA was shot. The first time Thomas took Tanner from her arms before she was shot the second time those items they throughout the knife, the gun, etc. Those were tossed out hoping that they would go into
reverend disappear, but the river was frozen over. This is no sk in winter time, and this is why just in you can t say, thank goodness there, dumb criminals, because it really helps to nail them later absolutely and what did they expect? happen MIKE. What on earth were they thinking? They are literally going around and asking where Brandon is and then- go to the House in committee. Triple homicide, you you think it any point they would aborted this mission, they would have figure everyone's going to know we're doing this when they showed up to the house and there's other people at the house. You would think So it's February nineteen, ninety six John was found guilty of three counts of first degree: murder, one count of burglary, three counts of use of a deadly weapon to commit a felony, he was sentenced to the death penalty at the time he was one of thirteen people on death row
one of the narratives about this case is that these two men, Nissen and Lauder, had it in their heads that they needed to get revenge. For Lana Tisdell, because of, Brandons. I guess you could say deception, what think about this and does it matter. I think it's part of it I think, it's only a a fraction- of the reasoning, I think the the bulk of it is- they didn't like somebody who was different. They wanted to bully this person. They wanted to out this person because they felt like some. they were justified. This person is, presenting them in another way that they don't agree with, and this person lied so It's this weird justification in their heads. were they felt like they were the good guys, I'm sure Leslie Tisdale, was at the house with Laana Wendy
you showed up- and this is, pointing to her body and I want to put a knife in my hand and kill somebody and then looked over at Lana and said and you're next now There's this idea that Bonham a a and partially responsible in some way because she gave away the location of where Brandon was at. I don't think it's impasse, oh, that they would have found. Brandon otherwise, but you know something the blame her and then I think here as the is trying to say she was scared, you know it's not like Laana called LISA up and said: hey. I think coming your way. So the real question of what is Lana's part in all this and I'll say: something else here. There are people who including the sheriff who say why? Wouldn't you tell people what you were doing, meaning Brandon? Why? Wouldn't you just say I'm a woman acting as a man but think about the real,
action, Cr Brandon lost his life, over this what does this say for people I mean? Is everyone just supposed to be clear all the time I think it a perfect world? Yes, but I can also understand why some are very hesitant to be so open and tell people who they really are because this brutal lesson people here, knowing that Brandon in died because of who he was inspired by the story that shocked the nation, the girl from play, is a new Hulu original series exploring complex personal relationships weaved through the power of technology. The show looks into the relationship between Michel Carter and Conrad Roy, the third, the events leading up to his death and the impressive. trial examining their countless text messages, starring, Elle, fanning the girl from Plainville is now streaming only on Hulu. Forgot the about the sheriff Justin. It was within his power tat these
two men, Nissan and Lauder, arrested in and chose, not to, because I guess transgender people, don't matter His county and even when they went to arrest these two men again on the rape charges they said that they were going to get a warrant to to their homes and one of the men said you don't bother you can you can just do it and he says that they did good by doing that, they did good bye. allowing us access to their homes I don't know I mean if I'm a sheriff, I'm a law enforcement officer. And referring to or talking about people that have just committed a triple homicide: I think I would ever use the term they did good ever, but the sheriff if he had arrested them again, we would have three people, probably I've today. This is not.
going to bode well and Brandon's family will. Filing civil lawsuit like they should. Yes, We should also mention that the sheriff lost his job in a few years after Brandon's murder. So I don't think that the people virtue excited to keep him on a sheriff after what they found out and, as you said, they had to file a lawsuit. There is no lawsuit was for a million dollars and Originally the words awarded Joanne seventeen thousand three hundred and sixty dollars and ninety seven cents. She course appealed that- the Nebraska Supreme Court, the light If your child is worth a little bit more than seventeen thousand dollars, I would hope so so the court ruled based on the on. You fact in this case we determine as a matter of law that the
conduct was extreme and outrageous beyond all possible bounds of decency and is to be regarded as atrocious and utterly intolerable in a civilized community as a matter of law, they said it needs to be a higher number and they remanded it to a lower court to decide what that number would be. So I 11th two thousand and one the same district court It had awarded the seventeen thousand five thousand per wrongful death. hot, and this is the new amounts by the way seventh Ave. And for I e a thousand as for mental suffering and six thousand two hundred twenty three dollars and twenty cents for funeral costs. This does equal one hundred thousand dollars. I'm surprised that they decided that none of these awards a reasonable relation to the evidence in this whole time, just in John Lauder was
Maintaining that he wasn't guilty by July of two thousand and seven something slightly surprising happened, Thomas Nissan canted it. His previous account murders his new claim. be that he was the sole attacker, so he said I only testified against John so that I wouldn't get the death penalty. and this is some information that originally came out to his mental health counselor. So he sang the idea for the murders was laughter's, but ladders. I'm jammed so Neeson shot the three people and Nissen stabbed Brandon, but you might think we'll. Okay so Perhaps John is innocent. No John plotted these murders witnessing not only is nice and saying this is how it actually went down, but also went on to say that he wanted later to acknowledge his involvement in the crime, in other words, Clean, just like I did yeah, I don't think you
say I I'm innocent when you have a said and raped your victim and then searched for them hunted down just because you didn't pull the trigger, or you claim that you didn't pull the trigger your son absolved one thing that I'm so as by Justin. Is that two men originally claimed that they went to kill Brandon because he was going have them arrested and we work aware that the sheriff was saying, I know no because they were already questioned about it, know how the sheriff's going to respond? They just assume that they're going to be in big trouble, job, they need two revenge, because how dare Brandon say that he was wronged by these two men. How dare Brandon, who they view as less than human. Get them in trouble.
Since this story happened. There have been many years for people to pick it apart, and to really think about what Story means how it went down one or the other It's people have been thinking about was that Philip Divine may have also killed, because he was black. and I must say this wouldn't surprise me. People intolerance. We know what capable of and the anger at and had that Lauder had at the time who knows when they got to the House why did they have to kill so many people? I mean they never really seem to care before when they had taken Brandon in the car and beat and raped him that didn't seem to matter. If people saw that, I guess just felt that they come far and they had to go all the way and going off of LISA's mother's reaction and interruption of the house
can I bet that they probably were pretty racist, also like to add that Joanne brand mother has. Accepted Brandon as a male and so in the grave has Tina Renee Brand as the name on it mentioning daughter. I know that probably something that upsets people- all I can say is- is that I found little bit of a silver lining there, because Joanne went on to say that she doesn't care how people, remember Brandon or Tina, because she just wants people to remember so, I think, even though it look at this and say: come on you except Brandon as a male, because that's what Brandon wanted, but, on the other hand, it's not like she's, demanding that everyone can Brandon, a she or Tina so
think. That's the silver lining there and as we go on through time, hopefully more more people will be more accepting and address people how they want to be addressed. Subscribe. bon Apple, podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wonder plus in the wonder, Iap to listen ad free
from wondering I Mickey Boyer host of the new podcast call me curious. Look
girl? On twenty four slash? Seven information overload on our news feeds our inboxes on Tik Tok. That's why I'm bringing you call me curious, a podcast that finally gives you definitive answers to life's burning questions like does intermittent fasting really work. Should I buy crypto every week on call me curious, I'll dive into all the things you've heard about, but don't really know about a both learn, and laugh along the way, as we explore life's little mysteries, the internet's hottest topics burning, gotta, know questions like one of them medical odds, there is other intelligent life in the universe, or is it true, you can't die in your dreams, you'll find out me and some of my hilarious friends on my podcast call me curious. Listen to call me curious on Apple, podcasts, Amazon, music or wherever you listen. You can listen early, an ad free by subscribing to one plus an apple podcasts or the wander app
Transcript generated on 2022-04-11.