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Yes and Y see premiers october nineteenth on ethics stream on hulu, the real quick. I wanted to take our listener robbie for his donation. I know he had some trouble with the website and the donations. So I thank him for his due diligence and impatience with us. So thank you. Robbie tonight's topic. People are fans. You guys always ask us to talk about current events and we typically don't we typically wait. We we typically are not trying to give our common task on the unknown or things that are still

in clear in the news and we you know everyone knows, we don't like to jump into national debates right off the bat of tonight's. A little different, though, where this is a a topic that I think we needed to talk about and address, and it's about the nine people that were murdered in a church. So, what's tonight's topic again

well it's become known as the charleston shooting it centers around a young man by the name of dylan roof. It was on the evening of june seventeenth. He went to a a church, the emanuel african methodist episcopal church. He sat in a pew and listened to the sermon for almost an hour then decided open fire on the crowd. Yeah. I think the bible, steady is a little more interactive. I would imagine and it would make sense there's a point at which the minister sits down with him yeah and I'm not sure that would happen if it was just sunday service yeah. He is

obviously the only white guy there. Some people took film of the inside of the church and you see him sitting at the end of the row. I, u can see his really bad hair cut, sticks out like sore thumb. He ends up killing six women and three men reloading a couple times, at least during the altercation, the incident, the attack, and he actually says at one point to a woman whom he lets live. I had to do it. You, rape, are women and you're taking over our country. You I have to go. I don't know how much more clearly get as far as your hatred for people right at before he opened fire. He said I'm here to shew black people so For anyone who is wondering if this was a racially motivated attack, I think we can, but

debate right now. It's it's definitely racially motivated attack. He wasn't there against the religion. He wasn't there against indonesia. you all that he had a grudge against He didn't know these people, but he picked this church specifically because it's a assemble down there. It is a monument in itself to the black community it has historic value. It has been burned down multiple times by the K, K k. It was the point of other slave rebellion in the south, and he covers a lot of this. These points of why he chose this church in his manifesto that he wrote because that's what all you know, good mash, shooters dues. They write a manifesto to get you to sympathise with the reasoning of why they

I to where they feel the need to go and murder multiple people. So in his own words, he says, he's there to murder, blacks, the I read through the manifesto. He makes many points in there. This is a guy wetter, peat one of his grades in school. I say that because he he's he doesn't seem to be very intelligent, at least to me, and he doesn't seem very concise and clear in his beliefs other than its us against them. He says that the situation they got him set on this course was reading on the trail on martin shooting, and I know I talked about it with you. Why are you tell me what you said when we started talking about this aspect of

es. I didn't understand why he was upset over the george Zimmermann trail on martin shooting because George walked so didn't his race. When, in that situation, I didn't understand his his frustration, ores. anger, or why this would be a trigger point for him, a flashpoint. I guess it was the the protests. I guess it was maybe to him a. I can't believe that they even charged him with a crime. I am not sure cause I figured he would have been applauding the situation from

the point of view. You seem very, very upset about it and that got him looking at the history of race in this country in the united states, and he outlines why he believes that that blacks are not on an equal footing with whites, that they are lower in his view, and he says you can say were the same people and you you try to say that we are all the same on the inside. He said: that's not right, that's not that's not true. He! He just none of what he says makes any sense other than if you, if you are racist, then it probably makes a load of sense because he starts trying to category

races as either allies or the enemy. He makes it sound as though blacks are raping every one and committing all these murders and they're taking over the country, and that when white people commit murder or commit any these other crimes that they're just getting drug down to that list. and then he tries to say that the only allies they really have are the eastern asians, and he talks about hispanic saying that some of this banks are very, very white and that they could be allies, but but where they they should be allies, but they just can't be because there are still his back, and so it's is it's a bunch of craziness. You know if, if you're really curious, but what he says, I don't really want to give his statement in full to the to the audience feel free to look it up, but I found it to be very wrong.

Billing, and it almost sounded to me as though he was reacting that he suddenly got pissed off about something almost like a road rage. that it wouldn't go away until he did something awful. I I didn't think that again it it's one of those things, work Yes, he is rambling, he is not making sense, but I found everything he was saying. Is along the same lines as any other white supremacist group, others, the council of coins, conservative citizens, the c c c, because they don't want to sound like the K, K, k at all

Actually they do. This group could literally charge him with plagiarism, because all the stuff that they spout off on their websites is essentially his manifesto. The rhetoric is the same. The talking points are all the same, especially in the culture of hatred, white supremacy in the k k k, nothing. He said he said in his manifesto surprised me at all: it's all stuff, I've heard before from these same groups right if it really is in bad doug, unique by its and in maybe we, We live in a completely different world than he does, but it's two thousand and fifteen, and I in my daily life I hearing hearing racist comments and things like that. That just doesn't doesn't really. It doesn't happen around me and I,

heard friends some of the people that new dylan said he would joke. He would make right racist comments and that people just laughed at off. So it's almost as though. he could be as racists is he once and no one called him out on it, and perhaps it's where he lives? I don't really know what would you think about that? I found a very odd because he. Come off as very racist with his comments in and his friends would say he is he he does not like black people, his friends, totally backed up yeah, I thought he was going to do something I didn't know what his family, they said that he was a loner day said that he was a germ of hope and that he kept himself and that he is

He was upset, he would go sit in his car and listen to Mozart or opera. Your piercing volumes he's kind of weird he's kind of anti social. What I thought was really are, it was as one black friend that he had done no inkling that he was really a racist, pristine, scrubbin and kristen still says that he loves his friend. I find that just weird and odd that he would have this one friend Pretty much stands for all his hatred, yet he sat in that church fur almost an hour, And there are witness statements that say he, oh He said he all. didn't go through with it, because all of you pete are so nice were. All of you We were so nice to me, so screaming in his face

your beliefs are wrong. He has a friend and the people at the church were super nice, yet he still followed through with his action. Which just tells me that his after into his belize, was not recent its been dwelling on that for a long time, and I have to say that I can't believe that his family wasn't.

Wasn't I won't, I don't want to say part of it, but wasn't privy to his beliefs or wasn't an influence to his beliefs. Yeah his friend in in the interview I saw came across as very almost sympathetic towards dylan, as though he felt sorry for him that whatever caused him to do this, he he just felt like poor, poor dylan, like I dunno what he's gone through, but it almost seems He wished to get help em or something his his tone was very, very sympathetic about his friend. He would he's out a more sympathetic than even dylan's family. His uncle said he would be the executioner right. Yeah I set up is he was talking about.

how they didn't raise in that way and that he'd be the executioner. If he could so he shoots up this church and he actually is able to escape and leave get in the car and drive off, so they didn't capture him at the scene of the crime. It was thursday morning that, thursday morning, less than twenty four hours, but it's it's a woman that spots his car. She sees that he is south carolina plates. and they had put out a description and she just couldn't believe it she's. You know, because this is about two hundred and forty some odd miles away and she thinks that can't be him, but where she's, fine she She call they call it in her. She calls it in and state police and at pulling em over

its he kind of sticks out I mean he drives a a black handy. Sadly, why and that it has apartheid stickers on it. He has racist stickers on it and he's got that ugly bowl cut, so he's pretty easy to spot, and I this woman sees him and she's, like okay, everything matches up cause. He didn't even change the way he looks after he did this he's that brazen about it- and I watched the dashcam footage of the the cops pulled him over and he pulled off onto like a it. Looked like almost a driveway or a little side road, and there was two or three cop cars that rolled up on him and the cops get out. They do draw their guns and they ask him

step out of the car and he does and he complies they frisk him or one of the arresting officers, I think, is like one out of five was actually a black officer. The other four were white and he is arrested without incident, which is a little odd to me, cause I just think about how boston reacted during the Boston marathon bombing and they locked down that town almost martial law to catch those guys. Yet dylan's able too casually get in his car and drive off after this mass murder he's not treated the same way.

And when they find em, they arrest him without incident, whereas the boss marathon bomber, they kill one of em and wound the other. Why think this marathon bombers were in a fight mode? What's clear from this case with Dylan is that he feels he's in the right, and he feels like he's doing something that he needs to do so he's committed the act and now he can be arrested without incident because he feels he did the right thing he's if you notice didn't he didn't try to kill himself no, and I dont know what his plan was by driving away. It's obvious that he feels like you did the right thing, so There's, no other, there's no reason to shew cops. He shot the people who wanted to shoot What do you think about that when he was driving away? Why do you think the plan is there? I think he

It is something wrong, so he's trying to flee most terrorist feel like they have to do what they're doing their forced to do it to make their statement to make their political, View known whatever, whatever their skewed idea, is they they feel they. This is a compelling fang and I'm sort of confused, why we dont look at most mass shootings as terrorist acts. I think that a match

Peter is typically the american version of a suicide bomber? It's just. They don't have to kill themselves during the activity, so I I think he got in his car and laughed and he thought something. I'm not sure what his plan was, but just get as far away from the scene of the crime as possible. Yeah, that's one of the topics that come up with this case is that it sort of illustrates how racist attacks aren't seen as terrorism, but but that's exactly what it is someone's terrorizing this group, well, there americans. So it doesn't really matter that there are firing upon a specific group in america there, americans And this is terror. I dont know how you can look at it. So you know in the perfect world David label, this guy as a terrorist law, if.

And this is where I am a little disturbed- is I've. I've spent a lot of time in the south and I've seen clansmen on the street out in the open their pretty much unimpeded I watch data a vice guide, where they imbedded a guy in a clans group. and he's following them around in the clansmen, are handing out their pamphlets, their hate propaganda and the public is walking up to them and asking questions and taking their their pamphlets. I haven't even take a flyer from a guy promoting as club, but these people are seeing what the clans all about today to me, the clan or ices, is one and the same their plotting the demise

american lives. Yet we allow the clan to organise in exist unmolested on our nation, while they propagate there hey and try to plan the murders of minorities. If isis was out there passing out pamphlets, I'm pretty sure we would he's like extraordinary scene yeah, send them to some third world country where somebody's gonna pull their fingernails out. But we don't do that to clansmen don't take their grand wizard or psyche whatever he's called today and send him overseas tat his fingernails pulled out. I don't understand if their planning, you know, actions against americans, we should treat them just the same.

I am not all for the patriot act or the national defence act, but that in this situation I might yell at ST them as the domestic terrorists. They are in any one. That's deemed domestic terrorist. Let's treat them accordingly and let's use these horrible bills that the government passed to extract information out of these people in and find out what what their next plant

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That is why would there not be more of a concerted effort to do something about these groups? That's what I dont get is we treat domestic terrorist differently than we? We treat form or muslim terrors, made it's because their american citizens, but then I think the mirror, the boss? marathon bombing or that the un where bomber or the shoe bomber. We we didn't cheat those guys very well either, so we don't know exactly where he started to get these these ideas. We do know, as he said in his manifesto, that it's the trayvon martin shooting that set him off. But what do we know about his background? his father Ben room. He was with three different women. You got married three different times: dylan roofs, biological, mother, her name is an

failure- and we don't know a lot about her she's, not in the spotlight. She did not raise dylan or stick around very long at all, so been his father remarried to page and page pretty. Much took all of bins. Children, including dylan under her wing and them as her own. Despite been the father was verbal and physically abusive, actually assaulted. Page when she was picking up the daughter from school one day in front of all the parents at the school, he assaulted her easy doing it outright and public he was overbearing towards page. He would call her all the time accuse her of

cheating or ask her where her whereabouts were in a whatever he offered full rights to the daughter, full parental It's in exchange for no child support obligation. Father of the year never heard any thing out of his mouth to say whether or not he was a racist. But let's just say that he was, verbally and emotionally and physically abusive towards page to the point where I m pretty sure he had to have been that way to his children too So I don't think Dylan grew up in the best environment with his father Helen had a criminal passed before the shooting happened. He had actually been arrested at the local mall. He was at whose hanging around them all acting weird use added

bath and beyond, or some mall store, He was asking the employees what time they close. What they're closing duties were an eventual really odd questions, essentially actions that could be interpreted as I'm. To rob you when you close the store down it bothered the employees so much that they called the cops security and they started question. Dylan dylan got nervous and gave them pretty much probable cause the search him once they searched him. They found so boxing on him, which is a schedule three nor cod. It's kind of like methadone. It's supposed to be used to treat narcotic addiction but

it's like methadone, is to treat a heroine. You can get high and abuse it and he did not have a prescription for this. So therefore he's he's buses. With possession charge. I also read that he was busted with cocaine method. D but I dont know if that was confirmed or not so he had. Pending misdemeanor charge, which I didn't like that, because he's at a mall with drugs. I don't, I think, our laws are a little weird when it comes to whether you're in intention is distribution or trafficking. They do that on weight or quantity. but he's out a mall would drugs arm. I I don't Here, if he's got one hit on a more, if he's got a hundred his arm, he was therefore

reason which was trafficking, but then on charge him with that which would have been a felony he's ban from them all. So he goes back. He returns and now he's charged with trust passing them all. So we ve got to charges on em, but both of them or mr meaner charges. We don't know what his adolescent years contained, what his mind or the charges were because those records are closed. I can't imagine that he didn't get into trouble at a younger age, but we don't have access to those records will- and this is one of the troubles with covering a case this soon we don't have. The perfect. Hindsight too, to bring forth additional details that will be learned later, but it still interesting to note that one of the women that his dad had married she continued to visit with done here and there

the age yeah yeah she she made it clear that she didn't while he's, is where mother says said that she made it clear to dell. She didn't like to hear anything racist from him, so he would not say anything racist around her. He put on a completely different face around her, and I think that shows that he did.

Some good relationships, but they said that he became more and more of a loner in the recent days. The closer he got to this event here in you know two thousand and fifteen. Is it just seems crazy to think that something like this would happen, and you know I'm just surprised by it. I didn't expect anything like this. I mean I guess you could say that about most of these big events, but we have sort of gotten used to school shootings. So when they happen, we feel bad, but they aren't as shocking, at least in terms of oh wow, that that really happened. Yeah a guy, that's prickly

I mean he wants to start a race war. It's not common, it's not something you see, but I, the the sad thing was is at this time, when he's getting in trouble, he's been arrested, twice and he's being more of a recluse he's able to obtain a weapon, and I couldn't determine if his father bought and gifted him this weapon or if his father gave him the money for the weapon and he went out, bought it himself But either way he had a glock forty five with a laser site and a quick google search for those. That's five to six hundred dollars of gun, another hundred to two hundred dollar laser site, so he's got

six hundred seven hundred dollar weapon that he needed like a new paint job on his car. Actually, his mother took the gun from him at one point cause she was scared with what he was going to do with but he went to dad and complained enough that he got the gun back and then his roommate actually took the gun and hid it at one point, because his room was scared of what It's gonna do with it he's a major red flags. Night. I know he didn't buy the gun himself just because of the world, no he didn't have the money to, because where would he get six hundred plus dollars so at either his dad bought it or his dad gave him the money for it? yeah they say that pending charges may not show up in a background check, especially if their misdemeanor charges they wouldn't was. You said, though, these charges could have easily been.

there's something more substantial day. They should have been felony charges, but the police use their discretion only charge him with MR meter. So they try to go easy on him, and then he acquires this gun, of course, but that's just the thing it seems like too much money for him. He's a high school dropout yeah. He dropped out a sophomore year, yet he repeated the grey he. He repeated ninth grade twice And I guess that was it for him yeah. I guess that wasn't a sophomore year that would be his freshman year twice so yeah his mind, obviously wasn't in school, but as far as the guns concerned. Yet it seems like a lot of money. I I guess you could say it. It just easily could have been his dad, giving him six hundred bucks and saying go, get yourself a gun boy yeah. It could have been that simple. It could have been. I I we should note again. I I know you brought up before, but his dad from what we can tell was not a racist man

we can't tell if he was or not? But I can't imagine that if he made, if dillon on his normal racist tie. Great. If his dad would correct him or accept it, we don't know well, according to people that know his father, they said he has a dave, a very diverse group of friends and that he welcomes people over to hang out with him. He doesn't care who they are as a man That beats a woman and public. I just don't have a lotta right. I say we I mean I mean abbe raises biddy could be a massage dennis yeah yeah, not defending of destroying the. This is we're trying to go over, why Dylan may be the way he is and since its still early. Yet this didn't happen that long ago, it's. We may never know, but this early on its the best I can say is. It seems as though,

So a lot of people in that town will say even during segregation that people got along and hung out together mixed races that there would be some blind eye turned toward racist comments by people that live there. So, if any, his racist, be other people just sort of put up with it tolerate it. It's tolerated while in this this may be one of the reasons why it shouldn't be, but definitely it seems as though he did make comments and no one shut him down, except for one of his stepmothers. I I can't say I blame the the gun shop for selling the gun. If, if Dylan bought it, he obviously pass the background check if his father bought it, then it's actually considered a straw. Man purchase cause, he eat, you can buy a gun with the intention of giving it somebody else fact at his parents, family and friends saw

a danger in this person and tried to take the gun away from home but conceded and gave it back to. I I don't know, I don't know where the fault lies there. I mean we charge bartenders with over serving people alcohol because they ve created a thread, a danger to the public. Yet here we have a kid a kid he's. A man who to me is an obvious danger to the public, yet is able to obtain a weapon. And nobody's held accountable for this. I wonder if any of you listening had been innocent where someone makes an idle threat of some kind. Have you ever had to think about it? Do you think? Oh he's just letting off steam or he's been drinking and he's an asshole or wait a minute. This guy's really kind of

I at, and it gives to himself he's been expressing views for a long time now, and perhaps I should report this- I mean how do you determine have you been around such a situation? I mean, have you just then I'd help. People could probably accuse me of making a lot of- comments myself that are anti system or anti government, but I don't take me seriously cause I'm not that serious of a guy, and I think that's what happens a lot of the times as we truly dont believe that something so horrid could come of this and we give it a pass. You I'm just To put this in perspective, because a lot of us will be sitting at home thinking how come these people? I heard him make these threats because he did threaten a college. Didn't he university? Yes, he did so why didn't anyone actually go unreported

and furthermore, if they did, what does that? Do I exactly the the police are kind of their hands are tied you know that they can only do so much they can investigate. They can go question him. but he can put on a smiley face and they have to move on if they don't have any credible evidence that a a threat is present, then the not so much as can happen there, but again on a reference, the youtube her that, when the whole gun, and was happening. He he said, come and get my guns, you'll see what happen, and I think he it's because he referenced obama and his threat that they revoked his conceal and carry license. They didn't take his guns away, though, and dylan didn't have a conceal and carry you just had a gun yeah. I think, there's probably some, residence on the part of some people who say we don't need a rat out other americans to the government, this

the guy who's. Thinking about fighting for freedom is the guy hughes, racist, possibly dangerous. If you are in that situation, is probably better to report it If you have any idea that it is a serious threat, because who knows they could do more investigation on him, they could parliament and talk to him. and you don't know. If that's going to be enough, it could be enough to scare him off of this road that he's got himself on, but since no one ever got in the way, we don't know, we don't know if it will make a difference, but we do know that inaction is the worst thing to do, because then he never has to think twice, not really well. So he's he's arrested, sure there's much coming up in the way of court proceedings legal proceedings. We don't have really too much sand that

we he he was indicted and he's being charged with nine first grew murders, so And they have the death penalty down in south carolina. I would imagine they will go for the death penalty, which your feet on that. I it doesn't have to be adapted the debate that yeah I wooden shed a tier if they put him to death. This is one of those cases where it's it's clear cut We know who did it but in time. The victims, families have already forgiven him and do not want him put to death, and I would say that I would. I would almost say that the victims have more say in what should happen, then the state, but that's not how our systems run right weave. We ve had this debate on the programme before about what is,

just ass. Well, ass, the families, they know what they're justices and I listened to their statements to Dylan, and it was quite clear that they were ready to forgive him now to try and read into it, but I believe that when people forgive someone like this, it's to help them as well to unburden themselves, of the anger and the hate that they now feel they don't want to be dragged down talk about. Drug down the way Dylan says: whites are drug down these people as human beings. Dont want to be dragged down and to lose their humanity over something like this. They want to be the better people and they are- and I thought it was pretty moving watching their statements. You dont know these

when you get to know him by watching the way they talk to dawn, that takes strength. I mean they're they're doing the best they can in such a horrific situation. Dylan seems unmoved I think I don't know if he's stealing himself, because he is telling himself I do there the thing I did the right thing, but he has these people opening up to him, sharing who these people were, that he killed, how important they were to them and how they forgive him. I have to think that somewhere, deep inside the recesses of his brain, he has to start to feel a lot smaller. We can only hope that we can only hope so that that remains to be seen what happens with them. He I would think that they go for the death penalty, unlocked

unless, for whatever reason, either because it's easier legally or because there is some sort of push from the community, because I think they have a voice in this, barring that I think they will push for the death penalty. So, in the aftermath of all this, we have multiple hate groups that support dylan. We have

Dylan himself, who has his values, his beliefs and things he's embraced, and he has mulch multiple photographs of himself with apartheid flags, confederate flags symbols that he associates with hate or white supremacy. Since this event, south carolina has pulled down the confederate flag from the state capital. How do you feel about that iron will and that's something that's been hotly debated now because of the repercussions falling this following the charleston shooting and we have people who obviously loved the flat

It's part of their culture that they grew up in an in I've worked with some of these people guaranteed. These people are in there for ease. This is what they now. They know that that flag as a symbol of pride that there nation back then the south fought to free itself from from the north, but I I think what we've discovered is is that there is no. There's no mistake here that, when these hate groups, these races groups identify with this confederate flag as for a good reason, so I think when you have something this divisive and connected the way it is with racism and with her.

and with oppression of what we would term minorities that it's probably not a good idea to have this state sanction such a thing to have it fly over their buildings, because these buildings are quantico paid for by the public. So you can't ask people who are paying taxes to support something that is anti them go you you can't have the state endorse anything besides the stay It's, not a state flag or the american flag. It doesn't. It doesn't have a lot of business being up their honour on a cow. a building or any state building, because you're telling the public that this is what we endorse.

I had a a friend of mine, very good friend, who is christian, and he told me that a school that his daughter and it I dunno how much of the story's true. But he says at a school that his daughter was going to one of the parent teachers decided to send home christian reading material with the students and as soon as that happened, he said. That's a bad idea. And his wife was like. I don't really. You know. Why is that a bad idea, and no less than a week later, a pagan or wiccan family decided well, if you're going to send home your christian stuff, we're going to send home our pagan stuff, with all your students

And let us say that, after that happened, no more religious material was distributed at schools at that school, at least. So, when you think about the confederate fly being flown at estate capital, would you want a rainbow flag at the state capital? Would you want a pot leaf? You know, should colorado put a partly flag up? Should you know if you think california is a bunch of you know, weird av is saved satanist. Should they put a penny gram up at their state capital no to stay capital should not endorse anything, and I I really would just disagree with any state capitals or federal government buildings endorsing anything. That's not the symbol of our country. That said there is this huge debate. Further confederate fly

No- and I I think it has to be talked about because it's kind of overshadowed this- this whole nation in this event now so I dunno I I look at it like you know: germany banned the swastika and and nazi symbols after world war, two they're not having this debate right now there are talking about. Should the swastika fly, you know above any state, buildings cause it's not allowed to be. There also did the civil war in our was almost two years ago in the flag, kind of went away after the civil war, Then, in the early nineties, hundreds with t move,

birth of the nation in and K, k k it had a resurgence and then the flag, the confederate flag, went away again only to come back in the fifties and sixtys during desegregation, where whites opposed to blending with blacks used the flag as their assemble of anti desegregation, so How on earth could a person in today's world say I dont think the flag as racist or rooted in racism, and I think I have an answer air just like the people. You work with its that southern pride thing you know and as southern culture is, you got your your gumbo. Your jumble lie year, crawfish sure, chicken and waffles your

southern charm, your southern hospitality. You have all these things that are considered southern culture, and if you were to make a gumbo out at a southern culture, Have all these ingredients. You would have your near near southern charm in these things but one ingredient they just toss end to this gumbo is the confederate flag, because it's part of their heritage so they don't associated with all these other things. It's just part of that southern culture and there's a D association, therewith, the racism and the hate that upon pop culture, consumer culture

and everything else. We were really good at sanitizing fangs and making them family friendly. I mean the dukes of hazard, very family friendly, show. I was a kid and I watched it with my best friend maurice and we love the show, I think, are consumer culture has a way of sanitizing things and the confederate flag has been removed or de associated with the hate that it was tied to it's been populist and pop culture. I mean Conway west even had a clothing lie where he had the confederate flag on a jacket, if that's not a total Show of pop culture, has taken this and tried to give it a new meaning saw. Southern culture has tried to take and give it a new meaning. I don't know what it is, but

and were reminded that these groups associate themselves with this one I don't know my totally off base with that way I'm not sure that can? U s is the best example. I note your saying about pop culture and how we just sanitize everything and give it a new coat of paint. But it's like anything else. You have a majority, probably that have a problem with it, but in certain groups you, knowing the african american me, I'm sure they're, not they're, not big. On this. Now there are people who aren't really in that community more. I think, if you're a celebrity you're in your own community, that's you're now you're now on a different planet. Essentially so I'm not sure Connie's, but I know what you're saying they do: try to turn it into something cute or cool when it has this other history to it. The other thing I've noticed is:

that people will say, oh, it was fine for all these years, and now you want to make us think about it. Well, yeah. There are a number of things we've done for many years that aren't good. That aren't right, but then we don't revisit like we should write, and just because it takes is a couple of hundred years to get around to doing it doesn't mean it's not worth doing so I think it as far as the government's concerned. If it's a federal building yeah it shouldn't. You shouldn't be flying anything with a confederate flag on it, but you can't go around and make everyone remove their confederate flag, tattoos. You can't go around to every truck and pull their flag down well for one it would be impossible to do all of that. It would go against our our first amendment.

Freedom of speech and expression right where it is this begin and end. I think that's what some people having trouble with again state sanctioned? No! No. But if someone personally likes that flag letter, and if you deem that person the became a racist jerk, don't associate with them. But I guess what I'm saying is not everybody that has a confederate flag, tattoo happens to be racist, that's there are people out there that truly d associate that flag because of pop consumer culture, southern culture, whatever it is, I think we painted kind of history that its bins used for that so much that sorry, you know sorry, the kkk ruin that that flag for you, but it's coming down from stay capitals because of white supremacist and hatred right. I think they go too far with it because

I've heard that games are being removed from popular sites such as apple or amazon, and I think that's going too far, especially if you're playing a civil war game, it ought to have a confederate flag in it. Sorry, this context do the right thing, make sure not state sanctioned. The one area that seems most interesting talk about to me would also be the fact that you have cemeteries with monuments these too late to do anything about those

I think they are what they are and we you know if, if you have young children, you can put it in cant into context for them. This is the time to teach. You can't remove something completely. In fact, you don't want to everything, should keep going in to the mix, and by that I mean if you are walking around and you have a confederate flag, tattoo and you're, not racist. You don't agree with what happened here in charleston then tell people educate people on your point of view, but at the end of the day you can't go around tell people it should remain everywhere. It is because again you can't make people support something that they see as racist. You can't do that not if they're paying taxes on it, it will. As far as amazon walmart these places are concerned, I am not going to tell a business how to run their business so if they deem this

is not being a money making item or not something that's going to be representative of them, then They can choose whether or not they want to sell it. I there would be a little ironic for somebody to buy a confederate flag walmart made by. in china and think it's patriotic in some way. Right, yeah fm: if there's a company that makes games and they had confederate flags in those games, they want to take them out. It's fine, but again, I don't think he should go around and force people to remove the flag from everything. I think it's going too far. I think a perfect example what you just said, though his wolf and stein in germany does not have any, whilst the cause they remove them all. You play the american version, its nazis. All over the place. You you, you play the german version. It's been neutered because this band there, the government bans that symbol as opposed to our government. That's not banning the symbol! They're, just

it down from capitol buildings right now. I don't believe really and I'm not sure what I would be okay with banning amid it has to be pretty extreme. It has to be very, very harmful, obviously, child pornography that should be banned in ideology. Euro agree with ivy what we we let the westboro baptist church do their thing. We, That would be a prime example. You let them get away with what they get away with. We try to be tolerant, I think, in this country we tried to be more open minded, but again it it has to do with there's private and there's public. I won't judge anyone based on one look. I know that in the town I live right next to liberty, Missouri there's a person that has very large. They have dual confederate flags on the back of their pickup.

you have a very large pickup truck and they have it proudly on their house as well. So- and this was before this shooting, so it's not as though they're reacting. He has been asked to take his flags down because of you know it's insensitive according to sam and he won't do it. All I can say is he's a private citizen. I don't see the problem in it, although he may have to deal with some regiment coming his way, because people will look at him and think wow, even in light of this you're still going as you go, this hasn't changed anything for you and I'm not saying they have to buy it now. He has to have a talk now. This turns into a big debate all the time and if that's worth it for him, then maybe that he's just that serious about it, but I think for most people, yeah they're, starting to look at this stuff and say

can be worth it. It's just what kind of message of my sending to my neighbours. Do I want to go along with them? Do I need to be understanding, or am I going to be? No. I was right. All along you'll just have to do with me, sounds like a homeowner association issue, while there's no homeowners association or the skylight course, so anyway, we want to talk about this case, mainly, I think, because of the different factors involved, and it wasn't just a simple shooting, not not to say that doesn't make it worth while to talk about by to me. The thing that stands out most even beyond the controversy is the fact that this guy could shoot down these people. Despite there being welcoming, or at least very tolerant, have him, they didn't ask him to leave, they didn't say

Are you doing here? Maybe you should go? They let him stay and if not, because they were afraid of them because they were accepting intolerant and he wasn't. And now there has been multiple church burnings of black churches since then- and I guess that's just- shows who's the more tolerant of the two, but I think what he did isn't going to get him the result that he wants. I think across the country he's going to find that most people are more concerned with getting along with us.

years, rather than starting some sort of via a battle over race and over superiority. I think he's gravely mistaken. I know there is not really my support for it, but he must have something wrong with him. I've heard people say things, I've heard them get angry, but this guy took it to the next level. He was able to shoot down innocent people in cold blood and he's, acting as though he did the right thing. So I dont know if he went through a brainwashing. some kind or he felt powerless because as I know that in bringing up nazi germany again heinrich himmler with his shoots and stifle organization. They were the militarized police they can.

Do anything go anywhere? They want to do anything to anybody. They had ultimate power and the man at the head of this organization heinrich himmler as a young boy was bullied, and he was the little tubby kid and once he got that power, he certainly held it with an iron fist and made people pay. So I almost wonder if, when people get violent like this, if it's sort of a a way to seize power, when they had yeah. I don't think he is. I wouldn t I dont perceive him as being mentally ill, though I see as being living in a bar where he only has one input, he only has one message coming to him and he can in green that he he gets indoctrinated and he only has as one way of thinking. I think it's a very popular thing to do, and it doesn't matter if it's.

What it is. If its white supremacy or whatever your messages most people only get their information from one source and it's a source. They want or agree with, not a source that they disagree with, and I think anyone can get to the point where they turn griping in bitching into action. When Dave worked himself up into a complete rage over the things that true on affecting them at all. Right, I think that's entirely possible because he may have looked around and no one had anything passionate going on, but there's people time we're being taken over we're losing her. Country. These people are committing all these crimes we needed. We need to fight back and take back our country and ass there to affect his brain. because no one else is bat passion about things like hey, you, wanna go get a pizza. Well, it's it's like.

it's like the nine eleven truth is oh, and by the way there is already a movement that says this is a false flag, attack and dylan wasn't part of it and all that, but did its aim mentality to me is they think, they're questioning everything to the point where they only get their information from other conspiracy sites. They they channel it down to just one way of thinking- and I know it's cliche but open your mind, a quick addendum at the time that we recorded this episode. We did not have all the information on how dylan roof obtained his weapon. It has now come to light tat. He shouldn't

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