« The Generation Why Podcast

Dr. Steven Haataja - 410


December 4, 2006. Chadron, Nebraska. In August 2006, Steven Haataja moved to Chadron, Nebraska to work as a mathematics professor at Chadron State College. On December 5, 2006, he was reported missing after he failed to show up to one of his classes. Ninety-five days later, his decomposed and badly burned body was found about a mile south of the school. However, investigators quickly reached a dead end. Was Steven murdered? Did he take his own life? Or did something else happen?

You can find the Generation Why Podcast blog at: genwhypod.com

The documentary Love & Terror mentioned in the episode: https://www.loveandterrorthemovie.com/

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join wondering class in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering. I do it's about her. I'm doing all right Justin? How are you feeling I'm doing? better than Anthony, so well, If anyone remembers we covered- and the sole quite long time ago on the podcast
he was a serial killer who murdered eleven women and kept bodies in his home. He was referred to. as the Cleveland Strangler and he just died in prison, He died of some terminal illness, that's all I could find so far. Yes, in back in the day we had talked with, an author by the name of Robert Smyrna, whose jests and a great guy his book was excellent. We definitely recommend Robards Burners House of Horrors book suggesting we have This blog on blogger, we ve talked, her because she published a book which is pretty cool and one of the recent blogs that she wrote is about a case, January of this year It involves a man who went missing in San Francisco. Ok, it's about him. And who is fifty years old named Christopher. Why tell now Family was concerned about him. He was known to be. Generous? He would help people out
whether it be money or anything else. You know, as you know, sometimes people that are very generous and willing to help out strangers. Well, sometimes, things go awry and then we don't really know who to track down. Who was person. They were seen with right and sadly, nice people get taken advantage of and yeah now and his family when they can get hold of them, then they can, the authorities and while the savages go police department is figure out what they want to do with it. His family plants. The head out there well as they hire a private investigator, so of the investigation here brings up that there are cameras, their able to find out that he did show up to his apartment with I think, a bottle of wine, and so they know he went in there, but the cameras never captured him leaving now when they check the door or the security chain was lashed
the inside. Ah, so this is We call a locked room mystery at this point right. This happened several days after the capital riots, I'm sure everyone remembers that being in a news, it dominated everything. Well, he was concerned bout this. He was afraid that the capital riots would spell out everywhere else and that he might be in danger. So he started exhibiting. Paranoid behaviour and was talking about running away, but it his family's like no, no, no, there might have been. stuff going on, but he wouldn't is disappear because he loved his family. I dont want to drag sound too long, but the perform a search of the apartment as well as the apartment building, and they come up empty There is one man that he took a liking to whose nickname was blood, a name like blood is a little foreboding. Yes, you're, not wrong, and
Of course, looking through this cctv footage, they all, spot blood going to that apartment. Before Scott there in this is, I think, a day or so before. So it's possible the he waited inside that apartment. Here's the thing, though, very recently- and this is just days ago Chris for White- tells body discovered during a second search of the apartment complex that he lived in now, I'm not say he deftly murder him. This investigation is not over, but I'd say he is definitely the number one suspect in this case, Lindsey said: He will be updating this post as more information is released when she originate it up. They haven't found his body yet so the case is still developing, don't miss. New limited series on embassy the thing about PAM she's, a friend and tell the end when a straightforward murder case takes a series of chilling, unexpected twists and turns it expires,
one woman's manipulative and diabolical scheme starring tutor. Academy award winner, Renee Zellweger, Judy Greer in Josh Demo Riveting story is based on one of the most compelling true crime, sagas ever told on the iconic newsmagazine Dateline catch new episodes, Bing about Pair Tuesdays on NBC, we get support from Hallo fresh. I love at home, but I always feel, like I end of wasting time and money planning grabbing and buying a ton of ingredients. I dont use Hallo fresh, makes cooking in home, easy fun and affordable by delivering farm Ass, proportioned ingredients and seasonal recipes right, dear doorstep, the meal, they signed are ready and around thirty minutes or less warm yourself but from the inside out with limited time. Recipe is inspired by cosy classics from around the world, like beef Tender and she's fine do or me so. Sesame, shrimp and Bacon Rahman go to Hell afresh dot com, slash why, three. Sixteen and use code wondering sixteen for up to sixteen freebie else: an free gifts, one more time.
go to hell of fresh dot com, Slash wondering sixteen! That's wonderful! One! Six code wondering one six, hello, fresh Work is number one meal cat, so Erin Tonight's case is one not really sparked my interest in this number of two thousand six. A man goes missing about food months later he's found down to a tree and he's been burned to death. Now this kind of out on a ranch of nowhere most people, This initial reaction is this is some sort of hate crime, but it gets far more deep than that. So without what are we talking about tonight tonight will be talking about the death or possible murder of her Stephen Hata. This was in Sharon, Nebraska Stephen was a mathematics professor,
grown up in Minneapolis Minnesota. Here too. sisters. He ended up to south for a while and lived there for me, seven years and he had action just move to Nebraska, not too long. For this event. Try! Yes, he had moved there too, each at shattering state college. In eighteen, eighty five doktor haughty, I graduated from black hills. State University Summa come louder, his major- was mathematics any minor in political science, psychology and theatre eighteen, eighty seven, or Haughty earned his masters degree. So we keep cool I'm doctor or Stephen, but this is a highly educated man and he has a backward. Teaching he taught in South Dakota at August on a college,
and he also worked at a computer firm in Sioux falls from nineteen eighty four two thousand, he was very technical great at teaching. Think really. Moving to Nebraska gave him that chance to take over it apartment. You know Freak accident Marcia too and five. He was ice skating and he fell and broke his hip after that. He kind of had trouble walking like for anything that was just like not level grade, he wouldn't be doing any rock climbing or anything like that has caused them a lot of pain You know, probably limited, is mobility a little bit and then January of two thousand six: he was actually hospitalized for depression. And suicide attempt, but he said to bounce back after that earning a doctorate in mathematics, on the University of Nebraska Lincoln, and that's when you move
two shadow Nebraska, he said off as an assistant professor of mathematics, their shadow is in the northwestern corner of Nebraska. It's considered pretty remote and had a population bob Fifty six hundred in two thousand sixty thousand seven. I would refer to it the small town myself, but I've been through their and it's it's pretty remote. But it's it's very beautiful too. Despite the hip, three doktor haughty. I really got around by walking because at some point his car broke and instead of getting it fixed or wherever he just walked? He had a wife go to, but yeah he doesn't have to go. That far so wide by a car. It sounds like the doktor was pretty practical so he would walk one mile to work and one mile back and despite stories about him having trouble adjusting to the kind of life that
Sharon offered I've heard it described his quiet, but he was trying to fit in. even ended up joining the shattering community choir and people, He really seems to enjoy teaching it was always open to hearing from other instructors. Other professors, better ways to work with students. Here often stay late. Everyone's that he was sociable. They said he had a dry sense of humor is really into puzzles and Rubik's. Cubes and discussing level, math problems, which you couldn't shut him up. He was he wasn't that shy. They say that was a people person he loved to talk to people he loved to help people and his favorite sports team. The Minnesota twins it's where he was from right. Let's get
the case. Just because there's this professor, getting, I guess a fresh start and had a pretty good place, you know. Sharon is, though, a great little town and he's now professor there But on December fourth, two thousand six Stephen began they, as he normally would he got at eight in the morning, he was too king by nine, a m and then the afternoon. He was working with a student to schedule and make up test, and then five o clock. He was seen near a pizza hut on West third street at six p m he was in his office again, but where Was he seen that evening? He was caught on a security camera at an atm he was withdrawing a hundred dollars Missis. Close to his apartment by somewhere bit win nine and ten p m a woman, saw him, leave his apartment and
he purchased a seven palm bag of charcoal from a local grocery store the store clerk. You him, because he was a regular. There was right by his house and add eleven forty one p m his work computer was logged into it appears that he was doing something and what's his work, computer, so it's password protected. I don't think it's gonna be some random person that broke into his apart manner in a wherever it was so we know at all in forty one p m December. Fourth, two thousand six. He was alive you we know he was alive. That means something happened between December forth in December fifth of two thousand six. He failed show up for class the next day, and this is unlike him, he was reported missing and police. They went
to his apartment, looked around did really see anything out of place found his bicycle. So they assumed if he wasn't home than he had just walked. They didn't really do thorough searches, because, as they put it, he's an adult he do whatever he wants, but they did have like you know about about like if you see him this guy's missing, but whether they actually patrolled. The street looking for him, I don't take. It went out far just this goes on for a while hermit, amber into January and February. No one knows where Stevens at and there were some searches conducted. People were interviewed, no one could quite figure out where he could have went. You because again it's not a big place and they know that his car wasn working. So it's not like he drove away and the time
small enough. They say that if he did leave town someone would have known, I mean if he wants data town it surrounded by country narrow country, roads pretty isolated. So if he did, got a town. He probably we needed to hedge a ride or get some to give him a ride and of course, his family. They haven't heard from them. His friends have not heard from him and almost four months later, wherein tomorrow, of two thousand and seven and what happens then there were a couple of ranchers, who were looking for a runaway steer. They didn't find the steer right away what they ended up, finding was a burned body, now. This area, Pine Ridge had been burned, while fires the summer, so what we're looking at. They knew was a fresh burn. This the what appeared to be a burnt body
was intervene, so they called the authorities and of course, where The investigator showed up. They found this body that was done the ground face down it? Looked like the ankles were crossed. And in the arms were kind of pushed out in front as if the boy, He was going to hug something they also found a mostly empty bottle of peppermint schnapps an unopened of water. The charred remains of a flashlight, a god of melted plastic. Andy. a tupperware like container that look like it could have contained a sandwich at some point, and this body had been tied to a tree. So it's very mysterious the ankles were tied and the torso was tied, but the hands were not,
next to his body. They found charcoal. It appeared that the charcoal had been used in this fire. So at this point I'm sure they can guess. This might be the missing professor, but what a horrible way to die, So there first thought is: could this man had been murdered. The medical examiner was able to confirm that this was doktor even hotter, he was badly. And over most of his body from as they say, His head to his toes, but the official cause of death. Smoke and soot installation combination with thermal injuries and they also re will confirm that that bottle, peppermint snobs, he must have been drinking from it, because his but alcohol level was shown to be extremely elevated. Now they tested the bottle for gene
they found Stevens, they tested his clothes, and it appeared that they had some sort of accelerant on them. Now, whether or not that accelerant was peppermints now we or thing else, gets it's hard to tell but They did find the receipt from the grocery store, confirming the date and time that he purchased it based on comparisons. The charcoal was found at the scene would be the same. Charcoal that he bought from the grocery store the night he disappeared. They went as computer. They went through his emails. Things seemed out of the ordinary They also notice that he hadn't pact anything is in his apartment. He had perishable foods out things like that, so He wasn't planning on going anywhere. He wasn't planning on leaving so by checking
and finding accelerant. That could lead them to think that this was a deliberate act by another party right. It could be that he was murdered, plus the fact that he was bound. but they check the bottle and only his dna was on. It he's the one who bought the charcoal. So these are kind of almost contradictory pieces of evidence at this point, the police, if we need more information now, I do know for a fact that they have more information, they haven't released in relation to their findings, but that's how it goes it's an ongoing investigation, they're not they just tell everyone here- is the type of accelerant that was used, because if they were to find a good suspect, they started talking, they could then- What they're saying to their evidence, including evidence that no one else should know, but the detectives and a possible killer
I'm thinking about this airline its nor Nebraska December when he disappeared, really cold out so I dont assume somebody's gonna go out and go campaigner have a little camp fire out in the countryside down this path, sure yeah. But this is just not a normal activity. Somebody would go. Do this past as far as I know was about three quarters of an hour. from the college, so would you say that possibly the investigators could be their league here, considering that it's a difficult case on sure that they dont have a lot of murders and their town, whether or not they have the resources and the forensic teams to handle something like this. So they call Anti Nebraska state patrol they get assistance Nebraska Attorney General's office, and this is the part I
just because so often we read about a case and the detectives already have their minds made up in a way they know where they're going to focus the investigation, but on this one they say just treating it as a homicide, because they can't really get in thing to make sense. So by treating it as a homicide. They will broaden their efforts. solve this case rather than settle on something that may be expedient, and I'm glad there doing that because, on the face of it, it look Like foul play, looks like a homicide, and You just do the numbers and he's a mathematician people usually take their own lives, veer o d, or firearms, and then hanging and then you go down the list. setting one saw on fire is not typical and a suicide.
There definitely locking down the scene and collecting evidence like they should something else: terror happens to the haughty, a family on March, twelve, fifty one thousand and seven Stevens Father died after a bout with dementia and his family said that they had hoped to conduct a double funeral, so they could say goodbye to both Steve and his father, but because this is an active investigation and there still collecting Information Stevens body. Was release to them during that time and ass swore that they were putting count man hours into the case, but as they work this case they keep coming up with more questions than answers. I mean this is just such I'd, seen to come across and this area he was found in a lot of people out there Oh rumours run abound. I mean
Stephen was divorced and he hadn't We dated anyone since then- and even was also a little a feminist. So people were speculating that here, had been gay and that this was a hate crime his friends and family or saying he seemed to be very heterosexuals entire life. There you go, and furthermore you understand that does because people say he why engage doesn't mean he can't be killed for being gay, even if he isn't gay, that's not totally off baser, and I I had a friend here, was actually dating a female roommate of mine. He was at a bar one night, and he was very affectionate. You is an art student, but he isn't gay, but I guess some guys, bar thought he was and, as he at the bar, they attacked him, beat him to a bloody pulp, even cracking skull open it.
Is technically a hate crime because they thought that they were beating up a gay man, even though he wasn't so. I guess it. How the rumour bill here starts. People who hate they'll find the excuse, even once they make up to hurt someone, so we can't discount. I hate crime at this point on May seventh of two thousand seven state his family was finally able to bury him. This was spear fish, South Dakota, and this funeral was tended by members from the Math Department at Children State College, a quartet from college also sang during the service. After haughty, it was buried in rows, he'll cemetery and his good stone reads the theory guy take moment get a word from our sponsor. Better health
Better help is not a crisis line; it's not self help its professional counselling done securely online and its affordable than traditional offline counselling and financial aid is available. Better help is committed, to facilitating great therapeutic matches, so they can make it easy and free to choose. Councillors if needed. If you ve ever been with a councillor or a therapist and didn't want to be rude and leave with better help, it's just a couple clicks and then move on their services available to clients worldwide can log in any time Send a message to your counselor and you'll get timely and thoughtful responses. You can also schedule weekly, video or found sessions and you'll never have to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room like you do with traditional be better help. Wants you to start living a happier life today check out their website, read the testimonials for yourself, the while you're at it visit better help, dot com, slash gin, why that's better help each e lp
and join the over one million people have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an professional special offer for generation? Why listeners you'll get ten percent off on your first month at better help, dot com, Slash Jen? Why also brought you buy embark. I recently just a Did a new dog. His name is Erskyll. I know he's a chihuahua but there's something else going on with them, because he has a cute little face a super long hair. If I were to be walking him down the street, and somebody Werner approached me and ask what kind of dog is that wouldn't know what to tell every dog has a story, and I want to know the mystery behind Ergo and that's where embark comes in embark, allows dog owners to learn about their pups breed ancestry, health traits even finds your dogs relatives embarked attacks. Over three hundred fifty breeds and screens for a hundred ninety genetic health conditions, so you can know the.
ass care for your dog to create a training and health plan. Their kid is very straightforward: easy to use with simple step by step instructions if you ve done sort of dna testing had to coax little Urkel with a treat, but we got the swab done. I'm super excited to get the results back right now. Embark has an offer on there breed and healthcare for our lessons this new year go to embark vat dot com now to get free shipping and save thirty dollars off your embark breed and healthcare with promo code Jen? Why visit embark that dot com and use promo code g in W H? Why to say forty two, where's today, so the Dawes County attorney posted a press conference on May eighth two thousand seven and up to this point, the newspaper articles in and we read many of them really don't tell you anything so at this Prescott, the media's really listening intently.
Because they're waiting to see if any more information is going to be released, what do they find out? Well at this point, they not finding any leads or any evidence that anyone else was involved, revealing that there weren't any footprints. There wasn't any dna. There wasn't anything that indicated. There was any one else out there with Stephen the day or night that he disappeared. might take away. Was They were going to lay out all of the things that they can't tell you about this case. We can't tell you what the Alright was we can't tell you what he was bound with other they did say was not barbed wire, because that was the speculation just in you- and I talk about their. I asked you what would bind someone to a tree but not burn. It sounds like a riddle, but what did you come up with? I came up with just fencing wire
metal wire of some type. There's been some speculation that it was electrical courts like an extension, cable or something like that and theirs idea that he may have it himself, because his hands weren't bound and it would have been easy for him- to set up the binding the tree and then too to the tree and then find himself around the torso and around his ankles. It still hot to wrap your head around. Somebody tying themselves to a tree and setting themselves on fire there's a lot of ways to take your own life, and this is. not the easier solution for anyone to attempt the county attorney maintained that this case was they being treated as a homicide, simply for the fact that it leaves the case open so that they can. Hopefully figure out what really happened by it.
not putting down a manner of death, yet that's undetermined, and then there is this plea to the public If you know anything, if you seen anything, please come forward. Let us now now from May till August. this is what the journalists had to work within the town. And in August here comes this does county attorney again and he hosts other press conference, and this is where public learn about the charcoal briquettes and how they can see that Stephen had bought for cats that may have been there kind, the very night he disappeared. So again it sounds like they're trying to say he might have this himself, but they maintain in that they have no official stance on this they're just treating it as a homicide simply to have the best. chance of solving this and
They reiterate, we have a tip line if you know anything, please this now, but according To the data they are not getting tips, are they Justin, No, nobody has any information here. and this is really an anytime. You set up a tip line or any kind reward or anything, normally there flooded and they are not getting any leads. now, my first thought is: maybe he wasn't well liked may be, no one wants to be involved, but according to the information we found he was well light there. There are accounts some strange goings on there was a student at the school who not long before the happened was bumped into professor Hadiya, that's not like him. He just bumped into this. and kept walking. No sorry, no! Nothing like that. So there are some weird things going on, thereby it people liked him
so. The lack of tips just means this. The most mysterious case this town has ever heard of so I guess it leaves it open to speculation. Just in what are you. think happened given off but you know, or what little you know about this case. Honestly right now You asking me this question, I'm giving you My current opinion, Maya, You can change daily or hourly on this, but clear today before we recorded. I tried burning liquor and my kitchen. I just poured a little bit and a bone set up set at a blaze. and some orange snobs switches, like you know, I think it's like sixty proof didn't burn. Then I had some other liquor. That was eighty proof, then it lit on fire. Just fine
peppermint snobs is typically a hundred proof to me means it's got a pretty decent flashpoint which is the ignition point and also We don't know if he had other accelerants if he had charcoal lighter or something like that, but he was drunk his blood alcohol content was very high, was he drew, because he was trying to build the courage up here too. Himself on fire. I dont know a lot of people. Don't think that he could walked out to this area, this meadow, because of his hip problem, but he was All over town write it miss about a mile walk to the college and then a mile walk back so yeah? That's that's where I feel like the alcohol is. The key here we don't have any evidence of other footprints of other d,
nay being involved in this case when he bought the charcoal he was by himself grew, if someone could have been outside, but now he could have asked for help. If he was in there alone, what did they if over him, if there was someone trying to control him, I just don't see. Scenario really I know there are a lot of questions need answering here, but just based on what I know of this case, I feel like the alcohol, is the key so we know we had a hip injury and we know he could walk, but most that Walk was very level ground, so the look at. It is if he were to go somewhere. Where he's not going to be found right away, meaning rescued. If this is his final walk. I that's where the alcohol conserve multiple purposes, one it can dead in any kind of discomfort that he has. On this walk out that will definitely not be on level ground. It can also be
up his courage, if he's getting ready to take his own life and yet despite my saying I feel like this- is a suicide. It's very quick cannibal that someone would take their own life in this manner the binding yourself. Maybe he just wants to make sure he can't just up and run away but to burn yourself to death, mean The only thing I can guess is he brought accelerant of some kind. There, the alcohol- or perhaps he used that sandwich container to bring some accelerant and why using it to easily start a fire, maybe hope. And he could in hail the soot that smoke so take his own life and he ended up catching fire. That's my the gas. If this is a suicide, I think the burning We know we had thermal injuries that
and while he was alive, I think those were an accident. I think he intended, to die by the installation of the smoke and the set one and that's why I'm I'm sort of torn on whether not the accelerate they found on him was the peppermint snobs or if it was lighter fluid, because there was melted plastic on the ground mean you can get lighter fluid in a plastic bottle the charcoal peppermint snobs tee all these things added together and when you add in that he had a problem with depression and previous suicide attempt it definitely possible minutes. It's definitely possible that he, bound himself, because his arms were free, it's possible for him. Walk a mile. He walked all the time, so It's not that outlandish, but the method. As you said,
is very outlandish indecision of two thousand seven Stevens The stairs sharing Emily didn't interview with the Carney hub we're always curious to know what family think when a family member has mysteriously died and quite often we hear that they believe that their siblings, or uncle were sons dad was murder. What did this sisters say what they were thinking about this casing maybe coming to some sort of conclusion. While they ended up doing an interview, and they are play agreed that the circumstances around his death work extremely bizarre, but they did except the findings here. They want to see the photos of the crime scene because
just hear it. It sounds horrible and heinous, but if you see him bound in the way he was bound economy gave them a little bit of closure hand I wanted the sisters said that she visited the scene, the area where he died and she said I saw the truth and the truth hasn't been pretty, but I needed the truth there, except accepting the findings of law enforcement and the investigators. While the the findings of the abbess scares, I think, is more of almost a private affair bake. I think they sort of belief that this was a suicide, but for the sake of the, astrogation left it as possible. Homicide just to keep looking for answers and they maintain
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on this case it is been able to close it. But this is something that seems to be. The majority opinion is that this was a suicide. Now, some things have happened since Doktor Hata died, his family donated math books to the University of Nebraska, Lincoln and a Scholarship was created in his name at blackmail, state university, but there is it. Documentary and a book written about this case. What we know about the documentary it was Dave Geneva and they interview people in the town, his friends, about his disappearance aid, they good job with this they really tried to. I guess I am I would compare. Two, I missing more Murray, they went around and they tried to get a feel for the town. They tried to get a feel for how people saw the doktor
and what his mental state was, the day of just days before more people were talking about speaking with omen, didn't notice. Anything was wrong. Now the book was fished in September of twenty thirteen. It was written by Paul Ballantine and the book is of love and terror on the howling plains of nowhere he's not from the area, but he did move there to write this book and its it's one of those books that, if you go into it in and I've read much of it. But if you go into it thinking I'm going to learn all about that. Stephen Haughty is death and the investigation and theories you're going to be disappointed that this author has his stamp all over It's really more of a memoir of his own, where the haughty a case is kind of like thread that goes throughout it. And so, if you
it from that angle, I think so much more satisfying book. But Valentine. Believes that Stephen, had been murdered- and he said, the local police department was under fire for a lack of musical missing persons, investigation by voice the opinion that Stevens death was a suicide. They perhaps thought low scores and the possibility of appeal in our midst might go away, o the haughty, a family aren't necessarily fans of valentines book Some people refused to speak with him because they didn't like the direction he was taking his story, but The way I look at it is when you have a mysterious death, to allow other opinions. You never know when someone will say something that might advanced the case whether it s in your own, mind or officially, and so, Why don't necessarily agree with him? I think this case does
have enough answers the hate crime angle, YO rumours, run amok when they found out that he was still bound and set on fire the common assumption was: he was bound by barbed wire because that's all its around there and That was very reminiscent of Matthew, Shepherd so This is how the like that, can take hold and drive a narrative but His family says he wasn't gay and he didn't appear to us come into contact with anyone after he. I've been to his computer, so we go back to the suicide angle and So that we can go to just a homicide angle hell it's weird circumstances. there was one study that said in two thousand and four out of there- two thousand four hundred and thirty nine suicides only
hundred and seventy seven and vault fire or burning of those hunt Seventy seven some attempts and some were successful. It said that Stephen didn't like pain. He didn't like to feel pain. So, like you said, we have alcohol here, But people talked about how there was no indication that he was still suffering from depression that he had made. Any plans to take his own life because he'd we had scheduled with us for a makeup test. He had made plans for the future. He had gotten involved with the community choir. Then there is the whole idea that he- have been able to walk that far and get down down into that area by himself because of his hip injury, it's very steep grade, but the ranchers that found him
They're saying yeah it's it's kind of hard to get back back in there, but it's not possible, but forcing somebody against their will to go back. There would be an harder than somebody this walking on their own. On their own two feet so is made of the fact that he didn't like to walk. on even ground or difficult terrain, but if he planning a final walk and he's drink snobs. I think we can talk that out. This isn't like he's going to. start doing this every day. This a final walk, possibly and one of the branches that had found his body Andy Kurd said where he was It's just hard for me to picture how you could get some one of his size and doc haughty with six foot for two hundred thirty pounds. their unwillingly, it would have taken six guys so again how difficult with that
it's easier to explain that the doctor walked there Jack is the only way I see this as being homicide is if the doktor took a walk and was drinking got drunk happened to have charcoal on him and a bunch of other stuff and then was hitching a ride and then got arrived from, Literally, a homicidal murderer, who then held him at gunpoint in come down to this little ravine and now Herman set him on fire. is? He didn't really have any enemies, he didn't have any one in town the hated him there isn't moving gangs or Satan or whatever else people come up with that could have targeted him, so it sort of like more Murray case? It's like what happened to her did she
and to the wrong car. Did she just run often disappear into the wilderness on our own and this case. It's we found him found him in a very bizarre situation, but it's either here to come up with he did this on his own. Then somebody else did it to him because of the evidence, because of the way it all went down, because if somebody had bound him to the tree there abound his arms and then, if he got himself loose from those restraints. Well, those restraints warrant on the ground anywhere. So It was obvious that there was only the one around torso and the one around his ankles. The only other thing accolade on is. Why would he is
was suicide by what he walked out to this past year- and I believe it's quite simply because he didn't want to take his life. Where possibly a student or someone he knew would find him. Be someone who probably didn't know him when you're in that mindset, you're not thinking logically, To thinking get away, build up the courage and There's a tree or there is a little area, where no one can see me. Ok, walk over there. I don't think he pre planned this. I think this was all just as he went if you like, we're all getting less less steps, less sunlight less being in the office. Our Well that last ones not so bad, but aren't you ready for more? You probably already Oh that price line is a leader in online travel, deals with deep discounts on flights, hotels, rental, cars and more. But did you know that with price line you can save up this?
Sixty per cent on your favorite hotels and you can also get exe this deals on rental, cars and flights and when you save more, you can do more, or steps more sunlight and no matter where you travel, still less being in the office price line knows that every trip is a big deal. So when you're ready to book your next one check out price line, dot com for the easiest way to get more out of your next trip. Think there could have been logic and ball just simply because of where he chose to do it at I may. He could have done at the college will I'm saying he walked away from town. So that's all the lot that was put into it and then the Nazis walking. He just looks to the right and says that looks like a good spot right. Despite does seem random, but it's tough because it's not like we want him to have been murdered by it. It's just such a sad story. If it's suicide in the fact that this is,
how he chose to die. And again I feel as though perhaps the burning was an accident, but that the fire was definitely intended, kill him yeah and, like I said, earn on depending the day. I might change my mind, love to hear what our audience thinks. Here. You can message s social media or on Facebook, twitter and scram all those things or you in email us but yeah tell us what you think and let us know if you think this was homicide or suicide, and if you like and the United States, and you are suffering. He should reach out, to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline witches one eight hundred too seven, three, eighty five, five, if you live in the UK. There is the same Britain's thereat Samaritan, dot org and there's another place called the campaign against LIVE
miserably in it the coms own dot net, multiple finance, out there, but if anything, if you have any wonder anyone that cares about you, you should reach out to them and town, because All of them would love to hear your voice. And see you again tomorrow subscribers Podcast Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering apt to listen ad free,
on a cold February morning and Indianapolis Tony caresses woke up got dressed loaded is sought off shock on Andrew to his bank. After entering the office, he quickly found his investment banker and wired the muzzle of his gun to the back of the man's head. Tony wasn't there to steal anything, he was there to take his life back and his plan was so well calculated that for the next sixty three hours, the Internationalist Police Department couldn't stop it, and so our rageous and potentially catastrophic that the entire nation couldn't turn away from it. American hostage is a new podcast, starring, John HAM. That tells the true story of one man who channeled the rage of a nation and took justice into his own hands and ass. The nation washed live Tony would become a hero to millions to hear the story follow american hostage. Where were you get your podcast or you can binge all aid episodes right now on Amazon, music or wondering plus
Transcript generated on 2022-03-16.