December 4, 2006. Chadron, Nebraska. In August 2006, Steven Haataja moved to Chadron, Nebraska to work as a mathematics professor at Chadron State College. On December 5, 2006, he was reported missing after he failed to show up to one of his classes. Ninety-five days later, his decomposed and badly burned body was found about a mile south of the school. However, investigators quickly reached a dead end. Was Steven murdered? Did he take his own life? Or did something else happen?
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I do it's about her.
I'm doing all right Justin? How are you feeling I'm doing?
better than Anthony, so well,
If anyone remembers we covered- and
the sole quite long time ago on the podcast
he was a serial killer who murdered eleven women and kept
bodies in his home. He was referred to.
as the Cleveland Strangler and he just died in prison,
He died of some terminal illness, that's all I could find so far. Yes, in back in the day we had talked with,
an author by the name of Robert Smyrna, whose jests and a great guy his book was excellent.
We definitely recommend Robards Burners House of Horrors book suggesting we have
This blog on blogger, we ve talked,
her because she published a book which is pretty cool and one of the recent
blogs that she wrote is about a case,
January of this year
It involves a man who went missing in San Francisco. Ok, it's about him.
And who is fifty years old named Christopher. Why tell now
Family was concerned about him. He was known to be.
Generous? He would help people out
whether it be money or anything else. You know, as you know, sometimes people that are very generous and willing to help out strangers. Well, sometimes,
things go awry and then we don't really know who to track down. Who was
person. They were seen with right and sadly, nice people get taken advantage of and yeah
now and his family when they can get
hold of them, then they can,
the authorities and while the savages
go police department is figure out what they want to do with it. His family
plants. The head out there
well as they hire a private investigator, so
of the investigation here brings up that there are cameras, their able to find out that he did show up to his apartment with
I think, a bottle of wine, and so they know he went in there, but the cameras never captured him leaving now when they check the door
or the security chain was lashed
the inside. Ah, so this is
We call a locked room mystery at this point right. This happened
several days after the capital riots, I'm sure everyone remembers that being in a news, it dominated everything. Well, he was concerned
bout this. He was afraid that the capital riots would spell out everywhere else and that he might be in danger. So he started exhibiting. Paranoid behaviour
and was talking about running away, but it
his family's like no, no, no, there might have been.
stuff going on, but he wouldn't
is disappear because he loved his family. I dont want to drag
sound too long, but the
perform a search of the apartment as well as the apartment building, and they come up empty
There is one man that he took a liking to whose nickname was blood, a name
like blood is a little foreboding. Yes, you're, not wrong, and
Of course, looking through this cctv footage, they all,
spot blood going to that apartment. Before
Scott there in this is, I think, a day or so before. So it's possible the he waited inside that apartment. Here's the thing, though, very
recently- and this is just days ago Chris for White- tells body
discovered during a second search of the apartment complex that he lived in now,
I'm not say he deftly murder him. This investigation is not over, but I'd say he is definitely
the number one suspect in this case, Lindsey said:
He will be updating this post as more information is released when she originate
it up. They haven't found his body yet so
the case is still developing, don't miss.
New limited series on embassy the thing about PAM she's, a friend and tell the end when a straightforward murder
case takes a series of chilling, unexpected twists and turns it expires,
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Work is number one meal cat, so Erin
Tonight's case is one
not really sparked my interest in this
number of two thousand six. A man goes missing about food
months later he's found
down to a tree and he's been burned to death. Now this
kind of out on a ranch
of nowhere most people,
This initial reaction is this is some sort of hate crime, but it gets
far more deep than that. So without what are we talking about tonight tonight will be talking about the death or possible murder of
her Stephen Hata. This was in Sharon, Nebraska Stephen
was a mathematics professor,
grown up in Minneapolis Minnesota. Here too.
sisters. He ended up
for a while and lived there for me,
seven years and he had action
just move to Nebraska, not too long.
For this event. Try! Yes, he had moved there too,
each at shattering state college. In eighteen, eighty five doktor haughty, I graduated from
black hills. State University Summa come louder,
his major- was mathematics any minor in political science, psychology and theatre
eighteen, eighty seven,
or Haughty earned his masters degree. So we keep cool
I'm doctor or Stephen, but
this is a highly educated man and he has a backward.
Teaching he taught in South Dakota at August on a college,
and he also worked at a computer firm in Sioux falls from nineteen eighty four two thousand, he was very technical great at teaching.
Think really. Moving to Nebraska gave him that chance to take over it apartment. You know
Freak accident Marcia too
and five. He was ice skating and he fell and broke his hip after that. He kind of had trouble walking like
for anything that was just like not
level grade, he wouldn't be doing any rock climbing or anything like that has caused them a lot of pain
You know, probably limited, is mobility a little bit and then
January of two thousand six: he was
actually hospitalized for depression.
And suicide attempt, but he said
to bounce back after that earning a doctorate in mathematics,
on the University of Nebraska Lincoln, and that's when you move
two shadow Nebraska, he said
off as an assistant professor of mathematics, their shadow
is in the northwestern corner of Nebraska. It's considered pretty remote and had a population bob
Fifty six hundred in two thousand sixty
thousand seven. I would refer to it
the small town myself, but I've been through their and it's it's pretty remote. But it's it's very beautiful too. Despite the hip,
three doktor haughty. I really got around by walking because at some point his car broke
and instead of getting it fixed or wherever he just walked? He had a wife
go to, but yeah he doesn't have to go.
That far so wide by a car. It sounds like the doktor was pretty practical
so he would walk one mile to work and one mile back and despite
stories about him having trouble adjusting to the kind of life that
Sharon offered I've heard it described his quiet, but
he was trying to fit in.
even ended up joining the shattering community choir and people,
He really seems to enjoy teaching
it was always open to hearing from other instructors. Other professors,
better ways to work with students. Here
often stay late. Everyone's
that he was sociable. They said he had a dry sense of humor
is really into puzzles and Rubik's. Cubes and discussing
level, math problems, which
you couldn't shut him up. He was he wasn't that shy. They say that
was a people person he loved to talk to people
he loved to help people and his favorite sports team. The Minnesota twins
it's where he was from right. Let's get
the case. Just because there's this professor, getting, I guess a fresh start and had a pretty good place, you know. Sharon is, though, a great little town and he's now professor there
But on December fourth, two thousand six Stephen began
they, as he normally would he got
at eight in the morning, he was too
king by nine, a m and then
the afternoon. He was working with a student to schedule and make up test, and then
five o clock. He was seen near a pizza hut on West third street at six p m
he was in his office again, but where
Was he seen that evening? He
was caught on a security camera at an atm he was
withdrawing a hundred dollars Missis.
Close to his apartment by somewhere bit
win nine and ten p m
a woman, saw him, leave his apartment and
he purchased a seven palm bag of charcoal from a local grocery store the store clerk.
You him, because he was a regular. There was right by his house and add
eleven forty one p m his work computer was logged into
it appears that he was doing something and what's his work, computer, so it's password protected. I don't think it's gonna be
some random person that broke into his apart manner in a wherever it was so we know at all
in forty one p m December. Fourth, two thousand six.
He was alive you
we know he was alive. That means something happened between December forth in December fifth of two thousand six. He failed
show up for class the next day, and this is unlike him, he was reported missing and police. They went
to his apartment, looked around did
really see anything out of place
found his bicycle. So
they assumed if he wasn't home than he had just walked. They didn't really do
thorough searches, because, as they put it, he's an adult he
do whatever he wants, but they did have like you know about
about like if you see him this guy's missing, but whether
they actually patrolled. The street
looking for him, I don't take. It went out far just
this goes on for a while hermit,
amber into January and February. No one knows where Stevens at and
there were some searches conducted. People were interviewed, no one could quite figure out where he could have went.
You because again it's not a big place and they know
that his car wasn
working. So it's not like he drove away and the time
small enough. They say that if he did leave town someone would have known, I mean if he wants
data town it surrounded by country
narrow country, roads
pretty isolated. So if he did,
got a town. He probably
we needed to hedge a ride or get some
to give him a ride and
of course, his family. They haven't heard from them. His friends have not heard from him and
almost four months later, wherein tomorrow,
of two thousand and seven and what happens then there were a couple of ranchers,
who were looking for a runaway steer. They didn't find
the steer right away what they ended up, finding was a burned body,
now. This area, Pine Ridge had been burned,
the summer, so what
we're looking at.
They knew was a fresh burn. This the what appeared to be a burnt body
was intervene, so they called the authorities and of course, where
The investigator showed up. They found this body
that was done
the ground face down it? Looked like the ankles were crossed.
And in the arms were kind of pushed out in front as if the boy,
He was going to hug something they also found a mostly empty
bottle of peppermint schnapps an unopened
of water. The charred remains of a flashlight, a god of melted plastic. Andy.
a tupperware like container that look like it could have contained a sandwich at some point, and this body had been tied to a tree.
So it's very mysterious the ankles were tied
and the torso was tied, but the hands were not,
next to his body. They found charcoal. It appeared that
the charcoal had been used in this fire. So at this point
I'm sure they can guess. This might be the missing professor, but what a horrible way to die,
So there first thought is: could this man had been murdered.
The medical examiner was able to confirm that this was doktor
even hotter, he was badly.
And over most of his body from as they say,
His head to his toes, but the official cause of death.
Smoke and soot installation
combination with thermal injuries
and they also re will confirm that that bottle, peppermint snobs, he must have been drinking from it, because his
but alcohol level was shown to be extremely elevated. Now they tested the bottle for gene
they found Stevens, they tested
his clothes, and it appeared that they had
some sort of accelerant on them.
Now, whether or not that accelerant was peppermints now
thing else, gets it's hard to tell but
They did find the receipt from the grocery store, confirming the date and time that he purchased it based on
comparisons. The charcoal
was found at the scene would be the same.
Charcoal that he bought from the grocery store the night he disappeared. They went
as computer. They went through his emails.
Things seemed out of the ordinary
They also notice that he hadn't pact anything is in his apartment. He had
perishable foods out things like that, so
He wasn't planning on going anywhere. He wasn't planning on leaving so by checking
and finding accelerant. That could lead them to think that this was a deliberate act by another party right. It could be that he was murdered, plus the fact that he was bound.
but they check the bottle and only his dna was on. It he's the one who bought the charcoal. So these are kind of
almost contradictory pieces of evidence at this point, the police,
if we need more information now, I do know for a fact that they have more information,
they haven't released
in relation to their findings, but that's how it goes
it's an ongoing investigation, they're not
they just tell everyone here- is the type of accelerant that was used, because if they were to find a good suspect,
they started talking, they could then-
What they're saying to their evidence, including evidence that no one else should know, but the detectives and a possible killer
I'm thinking about this airline its nor
Nebraska December when he disappeared, really cold out
so I dont assume somebody's gonna go out and go campaigner have a little camp fire out in the countryside down this path,
sure yeah. But this is just not a normal activity. Somebody would go. Do this past
as far as I know was about three quarters of an hour.
from the college, so
would you say that possibly the investigators could be
their league here, considering that it's a difficult case on
sure that they dont have a lot of murders and their town, whether or not
they have the resources and the forensic teams to handle something like this. So they call
Anti Nebraska state patrol they get assistance
Nebraska Attorney General's office, and this is the part I
just because so often we read about a case and the detectives already have their minds made up in a way
they know where they're going to focus the investigation, but on this one they say
just treating it as a homicide, because they can't really get in
thing to make sense. So by
treating it as a homicide. They will broaden their efforts.
solve this case rather than settle on something that may be expedient, and I'm glad there doing that because, on the face of it, it look
Like foul play, looks like a homicide, and
You just do the numbers and he's a mathematician
people usually take their own lives, veer o d,
or firearms, and then hanging
and then you go down the list.
setting one saw on fire is not typical and a suicide.
There definitely locking down the scene and collecting evidence like they should something else: terror
happens to the haughty, a family on March, twelve, fifty
one thousand and seven Stevens Father died after a bout with dementia and his family said that they had hoped to conduct a double funeral, so they could say goodbye to both Steve
and his father, but because this is an active investigation and there still collecting
Information Stevens body. Was
release to them during that time and
ass swore that they were putting count
man hours into the case, but as they work this case they keep coming up with
more questions than answers. I mean this is just such
I'd, seen to come across and this area
he was found in a lot of people out there
Oh rumours run abound. I mean
Stephen was divorced and he hadn't
We dated anyone since then- and
even was also a little a feminist.
So people were speculating that here,
had been gay and that this was a hate crime
his friends and family or saying he seemed to be very
heterosexuals entire life. There you go,
and furthermore you understand that does because people say he why
engage doesn't mean he can't be killed for being gay, even if he isn't gay, that's not totally off baser, and I I had a friend here,
was actually dating a female roommate of mine. He was
at a bar one night, and he was very affectionate. You is an art student, but he
isn't gay, but I guess some guys,
bar thought he was and, as he
at the bar, they attacked him, beat him to a bloody pulp, even cracking skull open it.
Is technically a hate crime because they thought that they were beating up a gay man, even though he wasn't so. I guess
it. How the rumour bill here starts. People who hate they'll find
the excuse, even once they make up to hurt someone, so we can't discount. I hate crime at this point
on May seventh of two thousand seven state
his family was finally able to bury him. This was
spear fish, South Dakota, and this funeral was
tended by members from the Math Department at Children State College, a quartet from
college also sang during the service.
After haughty, it was buried in rows, he'll cemetery and his good
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where's today, so the Dawes County attorney posted a press conference on May eighth
two thousand seven and up to this point, the newspaper
articles in and we read many of them really don't tell you anything so at this Prescott,
the media's really listening intently.
Because they're waiting to see if any more information is going to be released, what do they find out? Well at this point, they
not finding any leads or any evidence that anyone else was involved,
revealing that there weren't any footprints. There wasn't any dna. There wasn't anything that indicated. There was any one else out there with Stephen the day or night that he disappeared.
might take away. Was
They were going to lay out all of the things that they can't tell you about this case. We can't tell you what the
Alright was we can't tell you what he was bound with other
they did say was not barbed wire, because that was the speculation just in you- and I talk
about their. I asked you what would
bind someone to a tree but not burn. It sounds like a riddle, but what did you come up with? I came up with
just fencing wire
metal wire of some type. There's been some speculation that it was electrical courts
like an extension, cable or something like that and theirs
idea that he may have
it himself, because his hands weren't bound
and it would have been easy for him- to set up the binding
the tree and then too
to the tree and then find himself around the torso and around his ankles. It still hot
to wrap your head around. Somebody
tying themselves to a tree and setting themselves on fire
there's a lot of ways to take your own life, and this is.
not the easier solution for anyone to attempt the county attorney
maintained that this case was
they being treated as a homicide, simply for the fact that it leaves the case open so that they can.
Hopefully figure out what really happened by it.
not putting down a manner of death, yet that's undetermined, and then there is this plea to the public
If you know anything, if you seen anything, please come forward.
Let us now now from May till August.
this is what the journalists had to work within the town.
And in August here comes this
does county attorney again and he hosts
other press conference, and this is where
public learn about the charcoal briquettes and
how they can see that Stephen had bought for cats that may have been there
kind, the very night he disappeared.
So again it sounds like they're trying to say he might have
this himself, but they maintain
in that they have no official stance on this
they're just treating it as a homicide simply to have the best.
chance of solving this and
They reiterate, we have a tip line if you know anything, please
this now, but according
To the data they are not getting tips, are they Justin,
No, nobody has any information here.
and this is really an anytime. You set up a tip line or any kind
reward or anything, normally there flooded and they are not getting any leads.
now, my first thought is: maybe
he wasn't well liked may be, no one wants to be involved, but according to the information
we found he was well light there. There are accounts
some strange goings on there was a student
at the school who not long before the
happened was bumped into
that's not like him. He just bumped into this.
and kept walking. No sorry, no! Nothing like that. So
there are some weird things going on, thereby it people liked him
so. The lack of tips just means this.
The most mysterious case this town has ever heard of so I guess it leaves it
open to speculation. Just in what are you.
think happened given off
but you know, or what little you know about this case. Honestly right now
You asking me this question, I'm giving you
My current opinion, Maya,
You can change daily or hourly on this, but
clear today before we recorded. I tried burning liquor and my
kitchen. I just poured a little bit and a bone set up set at a blaze.
and some orange snobs switches, like you know, I think it's like
sixty proof didn't burn. Then I had some other liquor. That was eighty proof,
then it lit on fire. Just fine
peppermint snobs is typically a hundred proof
to me means it's got a pretty decent flashpoint
which is the ignition point and also
We don't know if he had other accelerants if he had charcoal lighter or something like that, but he was drunk
his blood alcohol content was very high, was he drew,
because he was trying to build the courage up here too.
Himself on fire. I dont know a lot of people. Don't think that he could
walked out to this area,
this meadow, because
of his hip problem, but he was
All over town write it
miss about a mile walk to the college
and then a mile walk back so yeah? That's that's where I feel like the alcohol is. The key here
we don't have any evidence of other footprints of other d,
nay being involved in this case when he bought the charcoal he was by himself grew,
if someone could have been outside, but now he could have asked for help.
If he was in there alone, what did they
if over him, if there was someone trying to control him, I just don't see.
I know there are a lot of questions
need answering here, but just
based on what I know of this case, I feel like the alcohol, is the key
so we know we had a hip injury and we know he could walk, but most that
Walk was very level ground, so the
look at. It is if he were
to go somewhere. Where he's not going
to be found right away, meaning rescued. If this is his final walk. I
that's where the alcohol conserve multiple purposes, one it can dead in any kind of discomfort that he has.
On this walk out that will definitely not be on level ground. It can also be
up his courage, if he's getting ready to take his own life and yet
despite my saying I feel like this- is a suicide. It's very quick
cannibal that someone would take their own life in this manner
the binding yourself. Maybe he just wants to make sure he can't just up and run away but to burn yourself to death, mean
The only thing I can guess is he brought accelerant of some kind.
There, the alcohol- or perhaps he used that sandwich container to bring some accelerant and why
using it to easily start a fire, maybe hope.
And he could in hail the soot that smoke
so take his own life and he ended up catching fire. That's my
the gas. If this is a suicide, I think the burning
We know we had thermal injuries that
and while he was alive, I think those were an accident. I think he intended,
to die by the installation of the smoke and the set one and that's why I'm I'm sort of torn on whether
not the accelerate they found on him was the peppermint snobs or if it was lighter fluid, because there was melted plastic on the ground mean you can get lighter fluid in a plastic bottle the charcoal
peppermint snobs tee all these things added together and
when you add in that he had a problem with depression and
previous suicide attempt it
definitely possible minutes. It's definitely possible that he,
bound himself, because his arms were free, it's possible for him.
Walk a mile. He walked all the time, so
It's not that outlandish, but the
method. As you said,
is very outlandish indecision
of two thousand seven Stevens
The stairs sharing
Emily didn't interview with the Carney hub
we're always curious to know what family think when a family member has mysteriously died and quite often we hear
that they believe that their
siblings, or uncle
were sons dad
was murder. What did this
sisters say what
they were thinking about
this casing maybe coming to some sort of conclusion. While they
ended up doing an interview, and they are
play agreed that the circumstances around his death work extremely bizarre, but they did except the findings here. They want
to see the photos of the crime scene because
just hear it. It sounds horrible and heinous, but if you see
him bound in the way he was bound economy
gave them a little bit of closure hand
I wanted the sisters said that she visited the scene,
the area where he died and she said I saw the truth and the truth hasn't been pretty, but I needed the truth there, except accepting the findings of law enforcement
and the investigators. While the the findings of the abbess scares, I think, is more of almost a private affair bake. I think they sort of belief
that this was a suicide, but for the sake of the,
astrogation left it as possible.
Homicide just to keep looking for answers and they maintain
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on this case it is been able to close it.
But this is something that seems to be. The majority opinion is that this was a suicide.
Now, some things have happened since Doktor Hata died,
his family donated math books to the University of Nebraska, Lincoln and a
Scholarship was created in his name at blackmail, state university, but there is it.
Documentary and a book written about this case. What we know about the documentary it was Dave Geneva and they interview
people in the town, his friends, about his disappearance aid, they
good job with this
they really tried to. I guess I am I would compare.
Two, I missing more Murray, they went around and they tried to get a feel for the town. They tried to get a feel for how people saw the doktor
and what his mental state was, the day of just days before
more people were talking about speaking
with omen, didn't notice. Anything was wrong. Now the book was
fished in September of twenty thirteen. It was written by Paul Ballantine and the book is
of love and terror on the howling plains of nowhere he's not from the area, but he did move there to write this book and its
it's one of those books that, if you go into it in and I've read much of it. But if you go into it thinking I'm going to
learn all about that.
Stephen Haughty is death and the investigation and theories you're going to be disappointed that this author has his stamp all over
It's really more of a memoir of his own, where the haughty a case is kind of like
thread that goes throughout it. And so, if you
it from that angle, I think
so much more satisfying book. But
Valentine. Believes that
Stephen, had been murdered- and he said, the local
police department was under fire for a lack of
musical missing persons, investigation by voice
the opinion that Stevens death was a suicide. They perhaps thought
low scores and the possibility of appeal in our midst might go away, o the haughty, a family
aren't necessarily fans of valentines book
Some people refused to speak with him because they didn't like
the direction he was taking his story, but
The way I look at it is when you have a mysterious death,
to allow other opinions. You never know when someone will say something that might advanced the case
whether it s in your own, mind or officially, and so,
Why don't necessarily agree with him? I think this case does
have enough answers the hate crime angle, YO
rumours, run amok when they found out that he
was still bound and set on fire
the common assumption was: he was bound by barbed wire because that's all
its around there and
That was very reminiscent of Matthew, Shepherd so
This is how the
like that, can take hold and
drive a narrative but
His family says he wasn't gay and he didn't appear to us
come into contact with anyone after he.
I've been to his computer, so we go back to
the suicide angle and
So that we can go to just a homicide angle hell it's weird circumstances.
there was one study that said in two thousand and four out of there-
two thousand four hundred and thirty nine suicides only
hundred and seventy seven and vault fire or burning of those hunt
Seventy seven some
attempts and some were successful. It said that Stephen didn't like pain. He didn't like to feel pain. So, like you said, we have alcohol here,
But people talked about how there was no indication that he was still suffering from depression that he had made.
Any plans to take his own life because he'd we had scheduled with us
for a makeup test. He had made plans for the future. He had
gotten involved with the community choir. Then there is the
whole idea that he-
have been able to walk that far and get down
down into that area by himself
because of his hip injury, it's very steep grade, but the ranchers that found him
They're saying yeah it's it's kind of hard to get back back in there, but it's not possible, but
forcing somebody against their will to go back. There would be an harder than somebody
this walking on their own.
On their own two feet so
is made of the fact that he didn't like to walk.
on even ground or difficult terrain, but if he
planning a final walk and he's drink
snobs. I think we can talk that out. This isn't like he's going to.
start doing this every day. This
a final walk, possibly and one of the branches that had found his body Andy Kurd said where he was
It's just hard for me to picture how you could get some one of his size and doc
haughty with six foot for two hundred thirty pounds.
their unwillingly, it would have taken six guys so again how difficult with that
it's easier to explain that the doctor walked there
Jack is the only way I
see this as being homicide is if the doktor took a walk
and was drinking got drunk happened to have
charcoal on him and a bunch of other stuff and then was
hitching a ride and then got arrived from,
Literally, a homicidal murderer, who then held him at gunpoint in
come down to this little ravine and now
Herman set him on fire.
is? He didn't really have any enemies, he didn't have any one in town the hated him there isn't
moving gangs or Satan or whatever else people come up with that could have targeted him, so it sort of like
more Murray case? It's like what happened to her did she
and to the wrong car. Did she just run often disappear into the wilderness on our own and
this case. It's we found him
found him in a very bizarre situation, but it's either
here to come up with
he did this on his own. Then somebody else did it to him because of the evidence, because of the way it all went down, because if somebody
had bound him to the tree there
abound his arms and then, if he
got himself loose from those restraints. Well, those
restraints warrant on the ground anywhere. So
It was obvious that there was only the one around
torso and the one around his ankles. The only other thing
accolade on is. Why would he is
was suicide by what he walked out to this past year- and I believe it's quite simply because he didn't want to take his life. Where
possibly a student or someone he knew would find him.
Be someone who probably didn't know him
when you're in that mindset, you're not thinking logically,
To thinking get away, build up the courage and
There's a tree or there is a little
area, where no one can see me. Ok,
walk over there. I don't think he pre planned this. I think this was all just as he went if you like, we're all getting less
less steps, less sunlight less being in the office. Our
Well that last ones not so bad, but aren't you ready for more? You probably already
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Think there could have been logic and ball just simply because of where he chose to do it at I may. He could have done
at the college will I'm saying he walked away
from town. So that's all the lot
that was put into it and then the Nazis walking. He just looks to the right and says that looks like a good spot right. Despite does seem
random, but it's tough because it's not like we want him to have been murdered by it.
It's just such a sad story. If it's suicide in the fact that this is,
how he chose to die. And again I feel as though perhaps the burning was an accident, but that the fire was definitely intended,
kill him yeah and, like I said, earn on depending
the day. I might change my mind,
love to hear what our audience thinks.
Here. You can message s social media or on Facebook, twitter and scram all those things or you
in email us but yeah tell us what you think
and let us know if you think this was homicide or suicide, and if you like
and the United States, and you
are suffering. He should reach out,
to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline witches one eight hundred too
seven, three, eighty five, five, if you
live in the UK. There is the same
Britain's thereat Samaritan,
dot org and
there's another place called the campaign against LIVE
miserably in it
the coms own dot net, multiple finance,
out there, but if anything, if you have any wonder
anyone that cares about you, you should reach out to them and town, because
All of them would love to hear your voice.
And see you again tomorrow subscribers
Podcast Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering apt to listen ad free,
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-16.