« The Generation Why Podcast

Emmett Till - 332

2019-06-23

August 28, 1955. Money, Mississippi. 14 year old Emmett Till traveled from Illinois to Mississippi to visit relatives. Just a couple of days later he went to a grocery store with friends and relatives to buy some gum. One of the owners, Carolyn Bryant, was working that day and ended up running out after Till allegedly flirted with her and made her uncomfortable. Roy Bryant, her husband, found out about the situation and he, along with his half-brother, went to the home where Till was staying and kidnapped him. Three days later, Till's body was found in the Tallahatchie River. He was identified by the signet ring bearing his father's initials. A proper identification could not be made due to the horrific abuse he had been subjected to prior to his death as well as being left in the water for three days. Emmett Till was murdered because he was black. Join us as we discuss racism, inequality, and injustice in 1955.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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how an extent vacations. What are we talking about tonight? tonight we're talking about the murder of emmett till in nineteen. Fifty five and this is a murder that would really define, I think What we were as a country back then and probably affected where we went from their, so some very important historical document of our country. Emmett till's murder occurred on august twenty eight nineteen, fifty five emmett till fourteen years old at the time before we, the murder, though I really want to set up where amateur came from and talk more about his family, m. It tells mother was made me Elizabeth Carson. She was born on november, Third, nineteen, twenty one near
mississippi, her foot their john left to start work. In argo illinois, which was outside chicago at the argo corn products, refining company. And in january of nineteen? Twenty four she and her mother alma joined, father in argo, each side, or maybe returned mississippi to visit relatives. There. And she was thirteen her parents divorced, and you know works after someone's. as divorce. Sometimes it has that kind of a devastating effect on them, because their whole world is torn apart, but for me, the way she dealt with it was she does. buried herself in her studies in nineteen forty, she graduated from Argo community high school and was the first black student to make the honor roll and the fourth to graduate at all. Some context here, just in case it's
obvious, but if you are a black student back then well, you weren't exactly welcome and so education wasn't very easy to come by. and so this is over Firstly, a unique student for her to get so far ahead of the game is It just shows her dedication to herself and later on, you'll see it for her family mamie met louis till the year she graduated, and he came from Missouri. He was working at the go corn company, it was said that he was very popular with the ladies. He had his eye on mamie and well, He wanted her to marry him and her parents didn't like that idea, but
He did win her over and on October 14th, one thousand nine hundred and forty. They got married at age. Eighteen, emmitt lewis to was bo in July. Twenty fifth, nineteen forty one in chicago is nickname, was bobo nineteen forty to his mother. And father would separate in nineteen. Forty three louis was dry did into the u s army, and he went to europe to fight and in nineteen forty five mamie got a letter from the department of defense that inform Her that louis had died for wilful misconduct. It means that he will is punished by the military and executed for his crimes, but she wasn't informed what he had done. Well, had gone down, nothing like that,
so that was on July. Second, nineteen, forty five she received his ring, it was inscribed with the initials tell tee for louis till and You would eventually give this to her son Emmett, her aunt em. It move to chicago south side. She as a civil service employee when Emily five he got polio, but he recovered he I guess he had a mild, lisp or just mild, beach, impediment his mother married jean, pink bradley, but then they end up getting a divorce a few years later. This is image. childhood for the most part. had a lot of family and cousins and uncles that were in mississippi is august and nineteen, fifty five when tills great uncle Moses right had visited the family in chicago
he'd come all the way from mississippi and he was planning to take tills, cousin, wheeler parker. Home visit, the families and the relatives until wanted to go visit all his cousins and see his family and he begged his mother to let him go but his mother didn't want him there and instead she offered to take him driving She was going to go on a road trip to omaha Nebraska, but till was not having any of it is like. I want to go, and I want to visit my family, so she that decision. to let him go and go visit mississippi. That august. It's on august, twenty fourth, nineteen, fifty five when Emmett went to break its grocery and meat market with a group Other teenagers
They consisted of seven boys and a girl. Some of them were his relatives and some were just friends they want, get. Some refreshments had been a long day. They had actually been picking cotton, they win the store in groups of one or two Emmett went in, he bought two cents worth a bubble, gum now. This is where things take a turn because depending on who is telling the story Emmett either flirted with whistle that or that's the hand or waste of the, up owner caroline bryant was twenty one years old at the time. some have said, that some of the her kids had dared him to do something to say something or do something to Carolyn and some said that he just was kind of forward, but where happened, caroline stormed the store and the kids who outside said she was going
We get a pistol so all these teenagers quickly left it said that it was a very outgoing kid, always joking always playing around so very part. It is an outgoing and I guess maybe that personality wasn't very welcome where he was at Carolyn. When to the back of the store, her sister in law, Juanita was there taking care of the children. She spoke with her about what had happened and the agreed. To tell their husbands and husbands, meaning Carolyn has been roy and what it is. husband, J w They were away on a trucking job when the main home one of that. Children may have told them what had happened, or one of the store's employees so Roy and J w decided to go and talk with an it, because he needed to be taught a lesson. This is
four days later after the incident and in it is staying at his cousin's house, not thinking anything of it. emmett and his cousins. Tell moses about what had happened, because they fear that moses would have emmett sent back home after a few, days, they thought everything was fine, but as we know four days later, Roy J. W went to visit moses and they bang on the door It was answered and when Moses, open the door. They were manning that the boy they did the talking be brought out. This is. Two thirty m in the morning at their bang. A door and demanding for in it to be brought out to them in. This is in the middle of the day this isn't he There was a little problem the other day and we just want to talk. No, this is me
in showing up in the middle of the night with guns in adding to talk to a child. Now moses in his Did their best to try and dissuade the men to try and ask them to leave moses said: polly. Don't take the boy and Elizabeth offered them money, but they work their way into the home. They found emmett asleep in one of the beds. They said, get dressed, and they threaten moses as they were, leaving do not make any trouble. Now he was the bed with Simon right, Moses son, so Moses doesn't want to doing as his son is right there and he does care about. And it very much but he's- numbered and he's black man living in the south and nineteen fifty five. He knows the deck is stacked against him, When Roy and J w leave, they bring em it to a shed or
on the property owned by some one in data with his family. This is where they beat him and then they take him to the banks of the tallahatchie river. Now, what do exactly what order I don't know, but it was described as his head was bashed in he was shot in the head is well one of his as was gouged out and then. he had a seventy five pound metal gin fan as a cottage and fan tied round his neck with barbed wire and then they tossed him in the river, which is a brutal murder. Fourteen year old child middle of the night, No, how this could be justified in any way shape or form doesnt matter, even if you, had said something to carol, even if, had been rude. This reaction,
this response, I can't imagine anyone. at least in today's world, justifying it but we'll see how society response to it in nineteen fifty five moses and Elizabeth two mamie and chicago telling that her son had been kidnapped and alone. Sheriff was involved. He the family search for Emmett long river and under bridges. Moses later said: were black folks always look when something like this happens, meaning this isn't something that happened one time. This is something that happens a lot, nothing new On august, twenty, ninth nineteen, fifty five raw and j w were sit on charges of kidnapping. They were the jail and greenwood mississippi. That's ten miles south of money where this happened. They were held without bond.
so so far. It looks like just this. Coming right now actually arrive. to them. This is a step in the right direction. Right. A little bit of hope here? Both men admitted that they had kidnapped it, but they ed they had led him go alive, We scared him. We talked term and then we let him go I'll, get along people to be seen with the child. After you pretty much home invasion. in the middle of the night, so yeah you're the suspect here sad news arrived on august thirty. First, nineteen, fifty five when the decomposing body of emma till was poor. from the tallahassee river, fishermen, had found him. The gin fan, and barbed wire were still wrapped around his neck, his face so swollen that a face No idea was impossible. More this was able to identify emmett based on it
lt signet ring on his finger, so that ring that his mother got from his father after he was executed in the army, is the only thing that they used to identify it worth, but that's all they need the boy- that's gone missing is too that say that they kidnapped him and let him go Then they end up finding his body in a river. wearing the same ring it doesn't take. rocket, scientist or an investigator to figure this one out locally. What is wanted to bury emmett by it His mother mamie insisted that his be sent to chicago his body, actually take a bit of a journey here, but september. Second, nineteen. Fifty five emmets casket arise did the illinois central terminal in Chicago mamie, overcome with grief at the sight of her sons, casket and she cried
lord take my soul and the press capture a photo of her at that moment,. After him, it was taken to a rayner and sons. Funeral home depress couldn't agree if emmets death was teaching so this, story is circulating and people arguing about how he died. What had happened to him? definition of lynching. Is a group or mob kill someone specially by hanging foreign alleged offence with or without a trial. Think this falls in line with lynching, to people more than one- and there is an alleged offence trial, but lynching, has this negative connotations and And back then, like all, we can say that now we gotta act like were more civilized these days. This was just a
in a murder. It's not lynching Well, some in the press knew what had happened because a paper in belgium had an article in title racism in the usa, a young black is lynched in mississippi. That's a pretty accurate headline. I wish they would do that more off September third, nineteen. Fifty five m- funeral- was hell that Roberts temple church of god in chicago now something different about this general happens: writer, the debt The child is something that no parent can even conceive of and those that have had that happened to them. There grew if must be overwhelming, but we already talked about how mamie was highly educated, very smart. Something that she decided to do is something I don't think most people could have done, but she won to have an open casket so that the world
we'll see what she had to see, which was signs brutally beaten body. There's pictures of this out there- it's horrific, but if she hadn't have done this, do you think this story would be talked about today? Do you think that Anyone would have even had a second thought about what had happened here. No, so It seems like those do wrong. Want to sweep it under a rug, but maybe saw to it that this wasn't going to get swept under a rug by having open casket and in fact jet magazine took pictures featured in their magazine. The war old started, to see what she saw, just as she intended and it horrified people when look at the picture of emmett tail and his casket and he even to this day there are people, say it and that's not a fourteen year old. They lied really.
Because this was the result of a child being beaten, shot and lie as an thrown in the water and being often the water for days. That's what this is this. This is definitely the body of a child. She wanted show the world this horrific thing. So they would a believe it and be maybe simply care and do something about it and fast forward to today's time, some he live streaming on facebook, their husband or their boyfriend, whose just been shot and killed in their car. People can say, that's very. gusting to do, people can disagree with the action, but how else are we? Supposed to show the world what this looks like and
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people waited in line to see em its body and September six nineteen, fifty five emmett till was buried at baroque. cemetery in chicago that same day Roy Brian and jaded. We milan are indicted. A grand jury for murder. Now, both these men, pleaded innocent and they were held until the start of the trial. Its september fifteenth, in fifty five, when jet magazine published photographs of emmett's beaten body, we already know what happened. We already know that this child was murdered, brutalized, tortured and then his tortured, bloated body is on display for all this. before the trial, you would think that this would have an impact, and it did in a way because there is a rallying cry over the death of em it till lack news
papers, black magazines, people were outraged, there was this sense that this wasn't going to happen again, people were upset as they should be so the trial, place at a court house in sumner, mississippi alive the white people in the town didn't. Like all this attention. There was a lot of support Four Roy and J w, they were still ending up for their own. I guess nay, flooded the court room and took up all the seats to prevent any the black families or people to come in and watch the trial now Roy and J w, they can't really mount a good too. and with the kind of money they have, but five Local lawyers offer their services pro bono and more than ten thousand dollars was donated to their defence. Most of it came from local businessman. I think of
Another situation that happened in modern times where the guy couldn't afford a defence attorney and got almost half million dollars in donations, and george Zimmerman was able to mount a defense September nineteenth nineteen. Fifty five was when emmets murder trial began. The jury was made up of twelve white men and that's because black people and white women were not allowed to be on the jury. I don't think that's. That's very representative of your peers and we still see this today with the ability to lectures from jury boxes. Nineteen fifty five this case be forgotten. There were nine farmers to carpenters and one insurance agent day sequestered to the upper floor of a local hotel and on
timbered nineteenth mamie travelled from Chicago two mississippi to attend. The trial September twentieth The court was reassessed in order for additional witnesses. Local laws, worse meant the in double a and black and blackened reporters all got together and found the sharecropper who saw J, Debbie's truck and heard him it being b. That night. So a lot of people came together to find an eyewitness here, the local sharecropper. His name was We read, he testified heard the sound of a beating coming from the on family, shed on the night of the murder. J D You came out of the shed carrying a forty five caliber piss on his hip. When J w asked, if he heard anything, willie told them. No, that's the typical thing
Do you do a crime in front of somebody and then you turn and look at him and said? Did you see her here, anyting and, of course, they're going to say no cuz you're holding a gun another key moment- happen on september, twenty first, when Moses stood up in court and pointed his finger at the two men who were responsible, he pointed is Your at both Roy and J w and accuse them- of coming to his home and taking emmett at gunpoint. Now this something that was unheard of at the time, a black person. Accusing a white person of pretty much anything that doesn't happen. This put a target on moses for him to do this, He literally signed his own death certificate but He did it. Anyways. Because he knew it was what was right: caroline bryant, who is the woman who supposedly was whistle that buy em at work,
touched by emmett testified by now in front of the jury. The judge said at her. Testimony was not applicable to the case, but need to be taken because there might be possible appeals in his case she's, so for the record essentially exactly. She said that emmett came into her store and bought two cents worth a bubble gum. said. He then grabbed her and verbally threatened her She said he had and there are some unprintable word here with white women before he, then whistled at her ass. He left she said I was just scared to death neither Roy nor j w took the stand. The defense team argued that he pulled from the river was not that of em. It's hell. They said at the naacp had planted that body. There and m. It was actually alive and well, but in hiding, oh adding closing arguments. They said to the jury
ancestors will turn over in their graves and I'm sure every last anglo saxon. One of you has the courage, to free these men. This is insane a huge conspiracy that this boy wasn't murdered. They just found some other random body and he's living it up back in Chicago all just a frame, these two white man. What when it comes back to? Oh, he was old, or he touched her hand, or he doesn't look like he's. Fourteen here those same things in today's media and newspapers. While he doesn't look like a young kid looks older. He had some things in his backpack that are questionable or he bought skittles and a drink from a convenience store that combined
can create some sort of drug. They look older and their threatening. I mean this is all very familiar to me in it's sad because now it's just accepted propaganda, as opposed to believe propaganda which it was then mammy it made. No sense, though white people were empower black people were even afraid to testify in court. In any case, So how would there be a conspiracy against two white men? I know so outlandish. You know what it is: it's it's sort of like they know, they can say and do whatever they want, because they're going get their way and sure enough september, twenty third nineteen, fifty five, the jury deliberated for about sixty seven minutes one of them remark that it wouldn't taken so long, except that they had stopped to drink soda pop and some
or even reported hearing laughter from the room, because you know- Are we figured this out real quick, but we wanted. We wanted drink or soda and in the meantime Roy bryant and J w milan were found not guilty of murdering mattel and after the tree They pose for photographs, while some cigars and kissing their wives. They were celebrating that same day, moses and will he read were taken to Chicago where willie lapsed and had a nervous breakdown. I mean basically fleeing for their lives. Now I want to pause for one second here, because Anyone that's a patriot supporter knows that we ve done a episode on jury notification, something that I very much believe in, but this right here this is the dark side
that finding somebody not guilty, who you know absolutely did the crime is within a jury's power, but when you have a jury. That's completely racist and wouldn't valley the human life of a black child over to white men. Well, this is the exact argument against jury notification right here. Incarnate, newspapers and europe were very loud about the verdict. It seems one had a headline killing a black person, isn't a crime in the home of the yankees, the white cap, of young emmett tell our acquitted another. said the scandal acquittal in sumner. and yet another, which was germany, said the light of a negro isn't worth a whistle of course is kind of a call back to end it.
suppose it whistle that he had as part of his lisp on timber. Thirty nineteen. Fifty five roy JW were released on bond, while kidnapping charges were pending and october. Taint. Nineteen fifty five and article was published by their memphis commercial appeal after info, asian about louis tills. Death was leaked by mississippi sender, James o eastland. Now, let's talk about this because already said that louis till, His dad was executed by the military. Let's talk about why? Because this was these are supposed to be sealed records, but someone leak them after the trial. What did they say? Just a size, not even the till family was proof
to this information and tell it was made public. It said that louis till and another soldier had raped multiple women and murdered one italian woman, and they were charged with these rapes and the killing of the third and they were both and for it, of course, this is saying. Oh well, emmett till was louis till son he's great either yeah this this monstrous kid came from a monstrous father, so he deserved it. We made the right choice here. This is the all slandering. This is the character assassination, your first, it's that's, not even a boy then its. Oh, this is a whole conspiracy. That's not even the right body and all his father was answer to the grand jury was composed on november nine. Nineteen, fifty five,
this was in relation to the kidnapping charges, so it is interesting because they beat the rap for the murder, but now for kidnapping charges. They admitted to taking in it that night to the police, but then they let him go quorum quote. This should be easy, yeah, the it's done deals: lamb dunk. Do you have a confession right? Well causes and willie both return, Two mississippi they're going to testify, but the grand jury decides not to indict. So once again, Roy and J w are free and moses. Willie have to go back to chicago and this time never to return Oh you can indeed a ham sandwich and you have to. Men, who literally admitted to kidnap your child. In the middle of the night who canyon be indicted, probably because one no one cares what they did
because the value of a white human life is greater than a black human life. Secondly, they probably think the kid deserved it. Thirdly, maybe some of them are like we don't even know if that was the right kid we don't even know It- could have been Which a ruinous cause they're, just so stupid honor, but they dont indict him. They get to walk free this thing called double jeopardy, so they can't be recharged. You ve roy J, w walking round is free men and talking because in january of nineteen, fifty six, both men talk freely to reporter for a magazine, it was look magazine about how they killed, em it and they both knew that they were protected under double jeopardy law. Roy said that heroin had not been part of or present for, the kidnapping or murder, which is weird because it was said that
There was a female voice heard in the car. But it was moses who had heard that right when Emmett taken to the car he overheard one of the men ask is this him, and there was lighter voice who confirmed that? Yes, it was him so it seems likely that that she was. Present in the car, but they got it protect her because she doesn't have double jeopardy. She's never been charged, so she could still face accessory or so to that effect. But they say she wasn't around. She wasn't privy to so sure their protected by double jeopardy. They can say how they murdered this boy. They got away with it. We on the store? Remember, caroline was working in the shop that they owned when this went down originally well, who makes up most of the people who go into that store,
neighbours and all the people that live in town who were supporting them for the most part because the courts. Damn worked and they were found not guilty. So these are hey, gentlemen, and we can support them and they got it wrong. They got the wrong guys, but now There's this whole spread in look magazine where they brag about murdering and torturing this young boy. so the people who support them are now very uncomfortable, and they no longer feel like patronising the store I wouldn't now wasn't just white people who stopped shopping at these grocery stores. It was also the black on the community's around money, the stores went out of business and J, w and enjoy had a hard time finding work. They had a hard I'm fighting anywhere to live. They were being ostracized. So, even though there was no
justice in a court of law. Well, they refer that the public was starting to turn their backs on them. Despite the early support. This is where I word ever support a social justice movement forward adversary were to a public, shaming this is a right here. They deserve to go under their admitting to this. When I The look magazine story- I couldn't well, if it was trying to be favorable towards them or slandering them. I couldn't tell It was just a very matter of fact story, but if you read some of the comments were literally letters that you would have to write an back. Then people were upset and depend on what your skin color was her, what state you lived in, they were you're upset because they felt look- was not portraying
two men and a good enough light, or they were upset because they gave them a platform where they got to literally brag about lynching, a black child. maybe began a lifetime of advocacy. She started with the federal government. She wanted to know why she couldn't get justice for her son's murder. She tried to meet president white Eisenhower, who refused the meeting at the idea. d, J, edgar hoover wrote in internal memo. That said there been no allegation made that the victim meaning m until has been subjected to the deprivation of any right or privilege, which is secured and pretend did by the constitution and the laws of the united states may he was speaking the crowds which number in the tens of thousands around the country. Again, was a rallying cry and
rights, move men started moving to the front lines of rosa parks December nineteen. Fifty five she was told to sit in the back of the bus and when she referred to do so. Apparently she had emmett tail on her mind like no more were sick and tired of this It's one of those things were even when You listen to some of the soldiers that were either in the korean war or vietnam. Lot of the black soldiers will say I like better over there, because I at least equal when you're in a firefight, who cares about what race you are in? and until they came back home where there having to literally fight for their rights that they were just told they were fighting. for in a foreign land, and then you have rosa parks and you have the
Younger generation growing up and saying why, We treated this way and you have the photo of emmett till out there, and then you have all the slander all the propaganda trying to tear this black family down, because their son was victimized. You want justice You want change. Mamie graduated come louder from chicago teachers, college and fifty six and in seventy five she graduated with a masters degree in administration and supervision from Loyola university in Chicago she went on it. special education in chicago alimentary schools. But this whole time she was can doing to let the world now what had happened to her son and thank god she did. Thank god. She had the awareness at the time to have the open cast. Funeral because, as we know, there's still holocaust deniers today it is people at
picks or didn't happen. In this case, she had to prove what happen: to her son over and over and over again, even five decades later Moses right would end up donating dna to prove that emit was the one even fifty years later, still having to combat allegation. that this wasn't even in its body yeah this false narrative. As we see a lot of the other newspapers that aren't in america at least even some of the newspapers, ETA and the northern states. are saying no. This is screwed up. We need to talk about this. We need to address this, but for the most part, when these guys were dumb enough to go or arrogant enough to go. Can
so there horrible boldness to their magazine we'll. Luckily, people actually started listening and realise the truth of the matter luckily we have- and it tells mother who kept talking would not be silenced, maybe went on to write a book title. Of innocence with Christopher benson, it was about emmets life and death, and in He said something about her son and his lisp, and how he would stammer, sometimes and wood whistle to help get the words out. So who is this possibility that caroline bryant, heard him whistle and over reacted As we know her action this led to his murder. Most of you know. I've been an audible subscriber for like a decade now audible offers
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may two thousand for the department of justice and the mississippi district attorney's office, open investigation into emmets murderer. They want if there were any prosecutions possible for other individuals involved in the crime. This is good. because it shows that at least some aspects of the government wants to see justice. They would have to be processed Under state law, because the fur a statute of limitations was long gone in spring to and five and it tells by it was zoomed in autopsy. performed and in of that year. It is reported that the body had been positively unified, as amityville through dna in case anybody wondered yeah. They still have to prove this stuff, In July, two thousand five, the new york times published an article called the ghost of image till and revolve round interviews that took place in ninety ninety five,
a man named re treble who as the youngest jury member said that he voted to acquire and his reasons were deaf The argument that the body and the river didn't belong to emit till he believed If this, because there was hair on the chest which he said, blacks, don't grow hair on their chests until their thirty. The ignorance of this just did the down stupidity of some of these statements is just mind bowing to me. The defence attorney said my clients. They denied that they did it yeah. I believed them, which he's a defence attorney he's paid to defend so whatever about that guy. But this is why they had to go back fifty years later, prove dna that this was asked
We emit because bull even in the nineteen nine. These were saying: who knows our enough? It was that kid or not. You have to counter this horrible racist narrative. It's like counter the holocaust holocaust deniers, saying it never happened, psych But we have all this documentation, we have all the evidence. Emmett till was killed, murdered by these two men. They've confessed to it. Yet even later people are saying- I don't know if that was his body or not. I just don't get it in two thousand and six jerome little. Who is the first black president of the tallahatchie county board of supervisors organized emmett till memorial commission. It was founded probably remember and honour in it and two thousand seven. They offered a formal apology to the tell family in a public ceremony. this is
Once again, someone in the government trying to set things right as as best they could, with the with what little power they have in early two thousand seven, the district attorney in the floor county attempted to bring cha is of manslaughter against caroline bryant, this was in relation to moses testimony. They heard another lighter voice on the night that I'm it was kidnapped. This is positively identified. Emmett. Remember someone a car was asked. Is this ham and a light voice responded at. It was now its long been believed that this I belong to caroline bryant, because she was the only one the store aside from the teenagers, the grand jury didn't indict her on these charges, and this brought in and tubes. This three, your federal investigation into the murder of an till. So of course many he bore angry, because this was one perchance. To see someone brought to judge as for what they did. District
tourney Joyce chiles, who was black, said it would have been very easy for the grand jury to have returned a true bill based solely on emotion and the raids they felt, and I commend them for not doing that. In other words, she believes that they in good faith, came to that decision. They do enough evidence there wasn't enough probable cause to make this indictment in it. Extensive? You can say who else could have positively identified him, but no one saw the face of the person in the car, at least no one who would have made a good witness, because the white men there, they Sherman gonna, say anything and Jane. If two thousand ten simeon right, who Moses son, emmets cousin published a book tat, old, simeon story, and I witness account of the kidnapping of emmett till now. This books interesting because it works to dispel the room
and incorrect stories about Emmett tells death one of this. raise was that it had a photo of a white girl and his wallet. They said that one True, they also that he was never dared by any the boys to flirt with Carolyn and he did not speak ugly remarks to her ass. She acclaim in the trial, They also went on to say that he was not castrated or tortured with a drill bit again happen. Tumors horrifying enough. These are things were just really insult to injury furnished who loved emmett cared about his story. There was even another rumour that was spread that he was killed by a black man and that's why they were framing on these two white man, so he counts. Is that also now Simeon does say in the book that emmett did whistler carolyn from near the outside doorway of the grocery, but he thinks it was just a joke.
One thing that was said about em. It was he was very, very humorous. He loved me. Jokes, there's something else. I want to say about emma because we didn't really cover what his life was, back in chicago since his mother worked so much. She worked twelve hour days. Much of the time I told her. You go make the money I'll take care of the house, and so he did all the laundry and the cleaning very responsible fourteen year old, august. Two thousand and nine family donated the original casket to the national museum of african american history and culture when in its body was exhumed in two thousand and five he was put new casket for re burial in the family made the decision to donate the casket before to make sure that it was preserved again it's just one more piece of avid
that they want to put out there. The museum said that it would work hard to show respect to this very important of history. In two thousand sixteen john edgar white men who was an off. And researcher, publish his book, titled writing to save a life, the louis file now remember louis till and its father was executed in nine. in forty five because they said he rape to women and murdered a third well, John edgar was looking through the fight. Laws. According to him, there isn't enough to support a guilty verdict: in its endless tells case so very questionable whence it and we're looking at what might be racism run amok it. Just It didn't seem like there was enough to support the charges in and you have two thousand seventeen timothy be thyssen, published a book titled the blood I am at till this is
one of those moments in this case that really stand out. Timothy did something that When I was able to do, he was able to an interview with Carolyn bryant the time she was going by the name, carolyn dunham and she had to first, roy years ago, married twice more, she said that the accusation that Emmett head verbally or physically assaulted. Her was not true. She said nothing that boy did would ever justify what happened to him now some say that's remorse. Others say about damn time and yet many others would say, who gives a shit probably fall, that latter, one myself, she went along with it and even testified under oath? But then again I dont care because it doesn't justify it. She thought I did it
time yet something I've been asking people that question is this matter, and I have expected people say well. It's not like. She went to a public forum and said this. She said this in an interview for a book that was going published later, and she of poor health. No Almost everyone. I asked said her time to talk was a long time ago, meaning nineteen fifty five day, late dollar short, and this since exonerate in it at all, if any wrong doing, because he didn't do anything wrong in the first place and everyone pretty much knew that, except for people heather heads in the sand, or just so isis, they couldn't see straight now, Carolyn. Also wrote a memoir, but it placed in the university of north carolina archives and is not
opened in red until twenty thirty six because she's gonna be gone herself, so therefore she can admit guilt admit her hand in all of this and not suffer any repercussions. Maybe maybe by this. he was a big moment because we didn't live in nineteen. Fifty five. All we have are the art well. We can read the books, we can read, we weren't there, but What we know of what was going The time was, if you are black, it was a nightmare. You weren't accepted as a fellow human being at the time why everyone remembers the the muse can the fashion in the cars and they like all that, but that's just the aesthetic when she doug down deep. This was the reality: emmett till was murdered because he
is being made an example right now, how dare a black person show any sort of dust respect or any sort of joke to a white purse. or an interest. How dare you it's their whole thing and then they will. Do everything in their power to justify it after the fact whether it be Mischaracterizing their age, whether it be showing what a dangerous person they are just complete care. after assassination and then even after all, said and done their assent He wasn't even victimized, just complete denial, that a crime even was committed. I want to bring up june teeth, Juneteenth is only recognized in thirty seven of the states of the united states as a holiday
but it is to celebrate the end of slavery. Now the slaves or first emancipated is now As though everyone check their smartphones and said, oh, the slaves are free now, terrific part about this is that slave owners chose not to tell their slaves that they were free they would work them until the slaves found out, and then it was as though the slaves good dangerous go start a new life. They couldn't no effect. They were incurred just stay with their slaveowners, who now had to pay them away not a good wage because they couldn't have all these slaves running loose. Any slaves had attempted to leave were likely shot and killed, because there were laws. There were curfew laws. There were public indecency laws and just by being black, you could break any of these laws by just existing now allow. This is because the slave
These and other people didn't view axis humans, they were property. This same way that the amount separation of the slaves wasn't smooth operation. it wasn't what we would like to think it to be the same thing with em it till they knew what happened. They knew that Roy and J w had murdered em it's hell, but that wasn't the point. The point as this is the way they want their society to be, and they didn't want it changing or progressing, they wanted to keep people like emmett till down, he didn't have right right to whistle at a white woman, whatever the context so juneteenth This is something celebrated throughout the month of june- mostly in the south. But I've talked to some people who celebrated in other parts of the country as well
but you said earlier how mamie having an open casket. It was important things like this: we get brushed under a rug and when people are forced to caen things, they can keep their heads in the clouds were in the sand, whichever one yeah, but because Mamie made that decision in and if you look at the photograph of her bending over sons. Casket, you can see the tears on her face. This is heavy grief, she made the decision and All these years later, we can continue to look back and see the horror that was nineteen fifty five all because the government was okay, with a boy being launched by a white man. so juneteenth isn't a federal holiday wow. I would just assume that that's a pretty
important day in our history. Yet it's not taken that seriously. You might think who cares? You know we have enough federal holidays. Why do we need raising awareness for all this well and until has a thing like a memorial plaque or assign data mississippi. That's then vandalized, over and over again, riddled with bullets has to be replaced all the time there is actually a. I think, a separate fund just dedicated to up keeping. It tells me more well. Maybe we do need another federal holiday the
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Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.