« The Generation Why Podcast

Guy Heinze Jr. - 456

2022-02-06

August 29, 2009. Brunswick, Georgia. Guy Heinze Jr. found most of his family beaten to death. This mass murder is often referred to as the Glynn County Massacre. Police believe Guy Heinze Jr. beat 8 family members and 1 family friend to death over prescription pain killers. After hearing about the case and the evidence, you can decide for yourself if you think Guy Heinze Jr. committed this massacre or if it wasn’t him at all and the real perpetrators haven’t been caught.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Madison dash red dot com, that's Madison, dash red dot com and now generation. Why listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on your first color could use code Jen? Why that code again G in W H? Why so earn tonight's haste is tat of a big one eye think I remember hearing rumblings about this when happened, but I honestly hadn't really looked into it much it's a the Miller side case. Tire family its wiped out, including the family, everyone that was in sight this mobile home, this trailer happened in August of two thousand and nine and Brunswick Georgia. So with that are we talking about tonight on site were talking about the girl Tor innocence of a man by the name of Guy Heinz Junior
to his family being murdered back on August twenty knife, two thousand, I in Brunswick Georgia in this case. We have eight people killed. And a three year old who survived the attack now before. We get into what happened that day. I guess we'll just talk about Who are these? People were down their backgrounds, real, quick, Guy, William Heinz Senior was guys father. He was for five years old. He was said the very generous and are needed. Do anything you need we ask for help. He was right there, for you said that he got up early and went to bed early. You didn't have a lot of runs with the law and he only had a few things on his record from the nineteen eighties. He drove trucks,
and he recently had won a lawsuit against MAC Hush County. I was civil suit for a mobile home. He had owned. He not received the money yet because the suit was your appeal, but he will is having issues with a mobile home park and supposed to be granted twenty five thousand dollars. Russell toll He goes by rusty. He was forty four years old he's refer, two as guys uncle saw its guys, fathers half breed. But he was always talked about as the uncle and he was acted in the family. As the uncle friends too item is very humble, hard working. They said that he really loved fishing and always tried to be there for friends, and
He was one of those old throwback, Canna, guys and he tried to live by the old standard that, if you don't have, thing good to say about someone. You don't say anything at all. I think I like this guy. He worked at the plant that is right. Next to the new hope, Mobile Home Park, he had been employed there more than twenty years. They said that it was a great employ da the plant temporarily shut down. When this all went down, there was Chrissy, Chrissy taller was Rusty's daughter. She was twenty two years old, she did have kind of a troubled life will run in with the law and down. This all happened after she left the school system at eight sixteen, but we know of her. Some of it came from the interim principle of need would school and he said that
she's all rough around the edges and I said while she didn't necessarily instigate problems, she was then in the middle of them. And tat ass. She got older d in and became more serious. She was in ten years probation and was fine fifteen hundred hours after pleading guilty conspiracy to commit armed robbery really sad, because it seems that a lot of these family members, their living in poverty and there too to make ends meet the best they can, but they are not entered the same opportunities as the rest of us and they might I'll, always be given the best path. teaching or the best opportunities in life. Here I guess, and so she was struggling she had a three year old Son, whom she had with a man by the name of Byron, jammer sin who had risen. Twenty years for the armed robbery, as you said,
the three year old survive, the attack. Rusty also had a son Russell De Toller Junior, who is twenty p buzz supposedly much like us. add was again Apparently, this is that only demeanor, but also their love for fishing and they said he didn't care how dirty he got all women. Outdoors, he people and love fish in just being out nature rusty, had another son, Michael taller, and he nineteen years old He was probably was well light. Of all of us these kids. Now we have one more child of rusty to talk about an that's Michel taller. She was fifteen, she would say: I've had a big heart. There are a lot of fun in classmates, who talked about her to the media after all, this went down. She liked her.
With her family, spend time with her dad her classmates I described her as being very happy and going and just not far going into the same rights as such, the other family members like her sister now rest He had a sister named Brenda. Gale fell again. She was forty nine and she was in a wheelchair. There is also Chrissy Toler boyfriend of the time Joseph west. He was thirty and tat the other. There are some good thing that people said about him. He always seem to be on the go buddy. These described him as being very devoted to the people. He loved and I spent a lot of time with Chris IE and her son Byron. They said Look at him. You wouldn't know that he would not be. The father in terms of how he interacted with the boy and was crazy.
So he was fitting right in with his family. He had some legal problems to. He has a record and again not trying to speak ill of the dead here, but it just goes to show everyone in this household has their problem and they do come together for each other and I think there is a lot of love here, but there's probably a lot of cod. listen trauma also because the situation there all living in now, the day before August, twenty Eightth, two thousand and nine. It said that guy wakes up in his hang out. If his friend Zachary there pooling they have fairly normal day, where they're just driving to work. He's building a house during construction. They have lie everything's normal to stay and he's interact. With his friends and family,
thing seems out of sorts by time. Here our work there go to go out and Guy's gonna seek out some cocaine. He wants to go smoke, some crack with his friends and goes to a was called a local trap house. That's it around eleven thirty at night and He leaves the house and then he's heading two Barrington Park, which is a lot of people. Will have their campers there and it's sort of secluded, and this is where he wants to go to smokes crack by on thirty, a m he's done at this park heading back out and in scoring some more crack from his friend Joe by one thirty two to thirty a m is travelling to different locations, Annie's back at bearing park. by two: I am he drives
ass, the entrance and parks and smokes the cracked that he has at too sixteen m, we know Michel makes a call to a friend and leaves a voice. Now, sir, We know it to sixteen everyone still alive and everything's fine to forty five, a m, he's a call made from Michel's phone that lasted thirty six seconds and then there's another call at three. Forty eight. It seems too a partial dial or miss style by five, a M guys making his way too best western to see it friend Tyler because has he put it, he didn't want it. back to the trailer were Everyone would see him geek doubt. Essentially he was high and he didn't want to be around his family. He didn't want awake people up because there's multiple people living in this trailer and
not a lot of privacy and he's high on crack this is so tell any talks on Tyler's door, but no one answers harm. He leaves and makes his way to a pay phone to call Tyler and tell him to let into the motel room, because no one's answering the front door at five thirty a m another witness at the hotel, Jonathan Car Michael testifies that he heard guy knock on the door at around five thirty. I am so, no guys at this hotel, and he shows on security footage too there's another witness named Jessica Polaroid, who grab, seeing guy between five thirty and six, She says that he was behaving normally and she didn't see any blood on em by seven o clock. Guy and Tyler have met up and they ve gone out for breakfast
after breakfast, they returned to the best western, ah there's a receipt from there, the restaurant. So we know, where is that we have a timeline going here guy. Rob Tyler off and headed back to the new Hope Mobile Home park. This is about thirty minute drive, from where he dropped Tyler off at eight. In the morning he gets back and he pulls up to his trailer and gets out goes inside any finds a massacres happened. Isn t the family is dead. Now, there's discrepancies here but says, he runs out and yells for help yells for someone to call the police and the neighbour Margaret or Linsky, she will end up calling nine hundred and eleven at around eight hundred and eighteen, a dot m that morning, so we have about, I've ten minutes here of
I going in seeing this Where was seen in getting hold of Margaret before nine. When one is called now there you go through. Everything he was doing is because it seemingly be a good alibi. Daddy's he's running around doing all these things, We have receipts and him on security camera. caving normally before this nine one call and you are also talking about how there is testimony that backs up. Oh, I saw him, but he will and covered in blood, or anything like that. Now I would tell everyone to go out in Google Earth on Youtube and find the nine when one call audio, listen to it, see what you think. I know it's he sounds believable. I think he sounds like he's in distress. I don't know, maybe round determination there police arrive and immediately start questioning die. They ask him.
if there were any weapons in the home, he said there was a when he gave shock in the house and sixteen gauge shotgun in the trunk of the car that he had been driving? He told the officers that he had taken the shot gun that sixteen gauge shock on out of the closet in the bedroom, where Michael and Russell senior were found. He told them that he took this Gunnar because it was. Stolen or hot, and he didn't want to get in trouble. He didn't want any one getting in trouble for this weapon. The police go into the home and they're, calling back to dispatch and trying to relay what's happened and and dispatch or asking them like how many bodies or other more like there's two bodies. There's three bodies we're going to need to call you back later. Once we get a final count, its now like any scene. They ve ever been in before the pool
retrieved. These sixteen gauge Shaka out of the trunk as car they found, had dried blood on the wooden stock, and blood on the right side of the barrel and around the trigger no during this nine, when one call the offer asked you what happened and he said his family had been beaten to death now in the police show up and they call back to dispatch One of them says they ve all been shot because their food This are so mangled and Ashton, that They assume that they ve been shot in the face of the Shaka, whereas guy has like no, they ve been beaten to death. Did will become a discrepancy and a point of contention later, but its power. Simple guy just now What had happened the police who were fresh on the scene, didn't quite understand they looking at the shot gun in the town
his car and thinking that it is the murder weapon. But just then will you just got and talking about how he admitted to having this shot gun in the trunk of his car that he had removed it from the home and yet his reasoning is because he wanted to get it out of the house because it was considered hot, but he's given it up right away, mean, This just him trying to be honest, because he knows everything on the line, perhaps because every I get is one thing. You're at this terrible scene with all this violence, and you think on my God, there's a high, gun here and yet he's telling nine one one dispatch that all the victims have been beaten? so. Why does he care about the shock? And at this point in time this is kind of a weird thing? Isn't it and it's possible that he moved it and then once confronted about it by law enforcement. He just like you, there. I just I'm not gonna, sit here and lie about it. Just go, My trunk you'll find the office
will find the other shock on or at least the wooden stock. of it, but they will not be to the metal pieces of it or the barrel of it it still in the home, and it looks like it has been broken up so that possibly or more than likely was the murder weapon and it was used to bludgeon everyone not to shoot anyone. This part ass, a sponsored by better help online therapy. We talk about that help a lot on the show, and this month were discussing some of the stigmas around mental health for exam. Some people think you should wait until things are unbearable before you gotta therapy and that's just not true therapy as a tool to be utilised before things get worse and it can really help avoid. Thus lows: many people think therapy is for so called lazy people. I know of family? No one really accepted mental illness and tell much later in life when it was too late, but there
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cocky shorts. Now, whether or not this was what police Keaton on or if they just you're, the one that found the body you're, the one that was last here, maybe you the best suspect her they're asking him. Where were you you give us a timeframe and he admits to them that he was smoking cracker earlier I won't say that guy's statements change, but when you first about this case. It sounds like he went, to the trailer, saw the mask her and ran right out and his neighbor- to call nine one, but, as is being questioned by police. He saying no, I went inside and I were to each room and saw the bodies- and I checked each week and I went to my brother, I went to Michael who appeal
to still be alive, and I sat with him. Tell you guys are until the police arrived in. So that's somewhat of an explanation of how he got blood on his shorts you know, we always say if you're happening upon a crime scene like this, you shouldn't be touching anything. But then again. This is his family, so you, and understand how he might go. Teach person to check on them. and that might also explain why he would know they were beaten to death. It's one thing to take a glance at victims who have been met. And say or looks like it was due to a gun or Do you know platform trauma, but he was, right there with every victim checking on them. They are going through finding blood smears on cocky shorts, his Jim shorts and their finding.
Some blood on on the top of his sandals, and that blood belongs to of West and his father, I Heinz senior now in that bedroom, where Russell Towler found, there was a knight stand with a smear of blood from Russell, and there were fingerprints belonging to Guy Heinz They also located a knife in the living room and that had blown from Russell Junior on its Tipp. So the fact that guy has blood from multiple there comes on. Him is very questionable to law enforcement, and this is where one would have to make the decision. Would it be possible for him to get all of this? on him from merely walking around
murder scene, or is it because he is the perpetrator of the crime, I think right here you can see why police would focus on guy. Hinds, junior right, Obviously there is an investigation. They have to do. forensics to figure out. there was any evidence from other individuals or any, but instead suggests that this went down any other way than as a result, Guy Heinz Junior murdering his family, which is apparently their theory and injustice, and even though his data a by as it were, had to do it. hugs and smoking crack on one hand you think? Oh he's just being honest here, but don't you think that probably heard his credibility with law enforcement, he sang? I smoke crack knowing what's PA the ball. With someone who has a drug addiction, absolutely it did and
Police are asking him. Is it possible that you smoked so much crack that you flipped out and did this. Possible that you were so high that you lie control of yourself with these are their questions. I'm not saying. Oh, you smoked crack. Let's go find the guy that you smoked crack with their going were you so high that you don't remember, killing your entire family during Interrogations guy would take a bunch of polygraph tests and, whether or not he pass. These is up for dispute because the polygraph her a man named Kenneth Black, down with later be called into question. So here arrested his charge, Bell is set at twenty thousand dollars. If you to a lot of his porter sites. They will go on about how he was to get bail, setting
this amount, and then he whispered ankle monitor, but then they didn't have one a lot of things that happened here that really in fear created the family, about the whole process let's just say that he will end up being indicted and die for eight counts of malice murder. One count of aggravated assault count of unlawful possession of a narcotic and why count, a possession marijuana and it's not until two Thirteen that Jury selection begins now a lot of guy Heinz as friends and family Absolutely do not believe that he is murdered everyone they do not believe he's capable of it. They say that he is a very happy person he's. confrontational. They say that he loved his family and after his mother passed,
way he became closer with his father, so I would he to murder. Everybody is he capable of murdering everybody. Family and a lot of people think can one person kill or murder eight people it's just something they can't wrapped her head around. They just talk about. He had his troubles like everybody else. He smoked PA and he got into brushes what the law, but for the most part he was, and what most people would consider a troubled child, but his Mom did pass away from a drug overdose, so you can Take that how you will the whole family struggling with issues we haven't
really gone into, what the police thought the motive? Was the police really thought that what started this whole thing was an argument over in killers, in other words, guidelines Junior, made it a fix yeah. He had possibly been smoking cracker, what but he really wanted these painkillers, but they were pretty I do so in the family and in oh, he wasn't supposed to. Them. So their started an argument now this, kind of a big deal because for law enforcement I think they look this and say if you're an attic, he does have to make a lot of sense here. The average person wouldn't start of violent confrontation over not getting a pill, but an inadequate. Then it doesn't matter whether those Girls would have been a real fix or not you're. Talking about an inadequate and you know by guys own words,
his own admission he was using a lot of drugs, so it what I expect and they found cocaine, marijuana and the proximity in a system which was the pain pills that their claiming sparked this whole conflict. So you know that where you ask, how could someone do this to their family, but once again, I would say. I understand why detectives are looking at him as the main person of interests. In this case now jury. Selection began jerk number, one, fifty to actually made it clear in court, the release, shit between his daughter and the high, family, so he had connection to this family and daughter had gone to school with Guy Junior. That's an honest sure, yeah and normally
That would get you removed as adjure, but its past bull that there were jurors that ETA did. France and prosecutor would rather strike now that blood smear with guys finger internet normally me a new area like tat means you were there at the time of the murder buddy. as have somewhat of an explanation, her or one they want to trial his defence. A dry. is this, and their opening statements there was a document on top of the nightstand had his palmprint on it now. was photographed and it was it into evidence? Sadly, this piece of evidence were destroyed during testing and that left the defence without the ability to scientifically test that evidence themselves to build a counter defence. It was photographed but
hard to see it's hard to make out whether this is print, so the Fences, saying hey, we can't have this: what's remove it, then There are questioning the dossier who says that this Document was actually found in the drawer of the night stand and not on top of it. There is a lot of what to do about this document with blood smear on it and, of course, if it's been destroyed during testing, all we have is the investigation and the prosecutors word that the test came back as this they can't do their own tests on it. I don't I dont think everyone's in on a conspiracy. I think any resting lab can do a decent job if they're on the up and up well, the price with this cases, and I think this is one of the reasons why it's somewhat well known is because a lot of evidence was this:
art it dispose of, or can have mocked up like this document, how hard it is to get a good sure of it, but I was reading also about how forensic evidence. It had been removed from this home. We're talking about hair you're talking about blood drain trap. seven were removed, but then they know they weren't tested day two of the trial. Sheriffs deputy was in charge of Chaperonage ing the jury because they had to be sequestered and he testifies that jerk number one. Fifty two stated was absolutely no way. I can convicted gentlemen. There is no evidence against him. and this is now a little premature. I guess Isn't that the same juror that admitted to knowing the family having a connection, it is
and this is gonna- become up another point of contention for this whole trial now is France is going to talk about how the police rushed to build a case. They had blinders on to go after guy. They did not pursue any other possible suspects and they were ill, quick to deal with such an overwhelming crime scene with blood spatter on the floor is the walls and so many victims, and I will say- Is there and I dare not wrong, because this was all said and done some of the other and was not analyzed or tested, it was documented, but it ever reached a dna lab and never reached any kind of forensic slap. Ferenc there was a sure in the bathroom that some blood droplets on it never was tested I mean some that evidence they didn't even collected. They yeah minor saying was, they would go through and photograph you know seen throughout the the home, but they were.
And actually collect all the evidence needs to be done, especially in a big case like this, but at the same time we have to realize that this was not very large trailer and you had nine people ten, including guy living there. It's not the cleanest, it's it's pretty messy, pretty cluttered disorganize mister! dishes everywhere, there's clothing trash on the floor it was a mess before the murders, and so that just makes it thou much harder to document analyze. Where things are because you don't know this in disarray, because there was a confrontation. this in disarray just because that was the natural state of things. If there's blood on it probably should have been collected, I saw a lot of the crime scene photos on their brutal. His fathers
bad and pillows covered in blood, so obvious that his father was attacked while he was asleep lying in bed. There is blood spots, are all over the wall above the pillows and then blood batter and drips following where his father finally would end up dying case. He apparently got up and tried to defend himself they brought in a friend examiner who talked about the autopsy. All the victims had blunt force trauma and some of them were stabbed. They testified that the wounds on all eight victims appeared consistent as if they were called by the same weapon or similar ones, it said that it was a long thin object, such as a night stick or a metal pipe, and that's where they assume that the missing barrel of the Shaka is probably why
It was used in the slang, I wasn't. There is some indication that, because of the type of violence that they saw and the different types of web, and said there was some thought given to. There is more one assailant involved in this crime o absolute because there was blood an stabbing they think well, there had been at least two people and then you have so many victims that at least the defence is theorizing. You might needed at least four or five people to commit this does act to catch buddy off guard at the same time, because if you start killing one person, the news to allow everyone else, but you have people in this house than you have one murder now imagine if you had five murders. This is gonna, be a crowd of people. So I
I think it's more plausible that it would just be one or two people doing this and not five, but This is the devil steam speculating how many people would take to pull this off, but it going to the investigators they felt comfortable just going after guides Junior. This is something that would have taken place when mill the night, we're thinking some time between two thirty three o clock, because that's when we had some calls from Michel's found too. I've or six in the morning. So there was like a three or timeframe that this to have been done, and, of course, guys out by for this time his traveling around buying crack smoking it in a park, and it's not the most solid alibi and there aren't a lot of people that can back it up her corroborated it
there. There is some evidence that he was out and doing things because we have receipts, but It doesn't seem like that, was going to stop their investigation into guides Junior and its because, like what we said, he lived there and he had an addiction and his alibi now was used all over the place. It wasn't like he was at one location all night and they could verify that so there is time and throughout the night where he who would have gone and done ass. He doesn't have a rock solid alibi, so they bring up thee. the mode of again press caution is painting this picture that here, trying to get pills from Michael and possibly an argument broke out or he decided to kill Michael for these pills Echo is nineteen years old and has down syndrome from their it's possible that
he had an altercation with either Russell or rusty or possibly Joseph West. Those are the other two victims here, are what I a grown men if You'Re- owing to attack these people. Those would be the next greatest and we know that his father was attacked while he lay and bad asleep, of course, the defences gonna say: what's his motive for killing of his loved ones: it's his motive for massacring everybody, the only and they found sold after the murderous was sixty one dollars and Russell Juniors pockets. They all found pills in eyes, car again is. Where do you believe it since the motive and its possible that the motive was something different and not just a bottle of pills? But that's the narrative
at the prosecutions going with and, of course, defences, gonna say: that's not enough! those aren't exactly away to handle. His fix is any other reason you could think of Justin why those pills would be worth starting a violent confrontation over no- and we are they worth praise him out of money or something or is this just kind of a weak theory? law enforcement, despite some evidence to suggest that guides union be involved, I would say the vow you of them was probably not the motive, but I could see the family members said no, you can't have them and then an argument breaks out which turns into something more violent, but it's not the value of the pills. It's the conflict over the pills but you also have that lawsuit that his father was engaged in use must begin
twenty five thousand dollars now, did guy know if he had the money at that guy, I know it was the money in the bank or was it at that trailer or we're not sure All we have is their words here, but you do have substantial amount of money that could have been more of a motive. If you think it's about money, but I think that his father was pretty open about this civil suit and everyone knew that he didn't have the money yet so you're, not really feeling there's a establish, motive, in this case against guy hands junior, think it would be more over an argument now during this time, german number one five too Let's say that he is doing his due diligence and he informed the deputies that sequester the jurors. That He was talking to a homicide detective.
King him for his input on how to judge this case or how to judge witnesses? is in the testimony now, you're not While the talk to people about this case. So just the fact that here, talking to somebody could have gotten him struck from the jury. but the way he's putting it is, how should I addressed the evidence? How should I addressed the the interviews here and there smolny on the stand. He saying that he's not talking about the case, but just how he should evaluate it to this homicide detective. But this is skating a fine line because it doesn't take much to get you removed from a jury. ray it's almost like, we didn't know better, he was trolling. How much can I say and get away with before? They just get irritated with me and throw me out of here, because that is a fine line there. It's also said that when the jury discusses the case
amongst themselves. german number one. Five too. Is somewhat aggressive or combative or argumentative with everybody and he is already form his opinion about the case very early on. This is brought up. to the judge- and there is an attempt to have him removed- This question by the judge and Judge- decides to leave him The jury take moment to get away from our sponsor ethos, protect what matters most easy, fast and affordable life insurance through ethos. Do you want to protect your family? If something were to happen to you, but don't have the time to deal with the long life insurance process? Who has time to deal with all that good thing? You can get life insurance through ethos at ethos, life, dot com? How does ethos make? insurance, easier, faster and better ethos is entirely online. Application only takes a few minutes to complete many customers.
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defence team is going to question that and say women. We all just get frustrated and mad at our families and say I'm gonna kill them Did he mean it or not? witnesses. Saying TAT sounded like he meant it didn't sound like a passing frustration. So you have this witness sang guy, possibly snow, because he was very upset with his family. Then, of course you have the blood on his Jim shorts. He had multiple victims blood his Jem shorts, which were underneath his khakis shorts. This is pivotal, for this pace, and this jury the defences I say this just happened, He went rimmed roomed to check on his family members, but the prosecution, the saying you can't get it lead smear on these. Unless you had gone in killed
entire family had blood all over you. You then took off your your pants and your shirt, because they were all bloody and then put on different clothes, but he change. His court unquote underwear, he left his shorts on put clean cat. he's an a shirt on top of that, so he was covered in blood. That's the prosecution version of events. Where is the defence of saying? No, those were the close was wearing and he just got smears and bloodstains on them when he went into the house there is a lot of back and forth and speedy claims on whether or not guys alibi where he claims he went to Barrington Park. at around one a m trying to to witnesses there that might have seen guy, they can't find anyone there was even a man that was camping by the entrance and a camper through says he didn't see him, but that man was
probably sleeping at one? I am also guy when question said. I didn't see any one in the park. Well, there were people in the park, but again it's the middle of the night did he see the camper or not. Do we take his word for it or is this a discretion see and his story because their work hampers their yeah. That's always tricky. Now, if it's late at night and People happened to be sleeping. How are they expected to be a witness, as to whether someone was there in the area or not, but I know some people will take that mean well, there is no one to see he wasn't. There and trial that Polygraph Kenneth Blackstone testified said that guy Heinz was being deceptive and was lying. Both sides give their closing arguments. I think you, you know what're each sides narrative is and the jury would
Begin deliberations that afternoon now it is said that the jury took a vote. And it was nine two three People thought he was guilty. Three thought he was not guilty weakened assume that juror number one fifty two was definitely one of those three that didn't think he was guilty not long after deliberation started juror number one hundred to sent a note to the court. The judge and forming that his daughter was present in the courtroom, and Tyler Heinz, who is guys brother, had moved to sit with her. so we have, number one. Five too, is thinking this is important and he once the court to know about it, which I think this is him over explaining he likes to cause problems suddenly I guess
Me was already on thin ice couple times and now he's sending a note like this. Now deliberations, go on the rest. The jury is starting to question jerk number one: five two's relationship with the accused and his door Our relationship with the Heinz family they're, not thinking. This guy can be impartial and is absolutely saying, I am not going to find this man guilty. I absolutely believe he is innocent and I'm are going to change my mind. There is nothing you can say that will change to my mind about that there, causes an argument between him and the jury. Foreman so hope This is again going back to the judge who, gonna say. Essentially we had a hung jury here because of you
the rest of the jury is saying that you're not impartial and that you're being competitive, so The judge is wanting to excuse juror, one five, two from the story panel, but in order to do that hence and the prosecution have to agree to it and you can just Imagine that the defence team is like saying we don't want to get rid of this guy because he's honours side now, whether or not they knew that I don't know, but the prosecution throws them a bone and says hey. This is a death penalty case. If this year gets removed the jury box. Then we will remove the death penalty. We will draw that from this announcing options now again Defence team is actually pretty optimistic here because they felt that they had countered all of the arguments for the prosecution even
His family was sitting there, just thinking yeah, they didn't prove anything, so they agree to. remove this jure and fur this compromise, he will get, in prison as a sense and not the death penalty if found guilty, if found guilty right and There were alternates. Remember when I was on jury duty. There were two alternative. Anyone couldn't make it through. This alternate jerk a woman who had sat there and listen to the entire case. She goes up. To the jury, deliberation room and they decide to Do a vote not even discussion about anything they just say: hey we're gonna, do a vote who are thinks he's innocent. No one raised their hand who thinks he's guilty everyone raise their hand, including this alternate sure this
within hours of excusing jerk number one five, two from the jury poor. So they find him guilty. That's it. turn now, because you said originally, when there is a vote, there were three against finding him guilty and they after one juror, is removed, it's like dollar, Is it all falls towards guilt and I will say this- that when you get any group of people together you're going to have I don't if you want to go The alpha is all the more dominant personalities and then your- we too have Thee or submissive or regret. personalities and then you're gonna have people that just don't care and just want to go home and they'll follow along with whatever so it up. Here's that once this jure was removed, There wasn't any more pushed back for his innocence, so
in the end, guy Heinz Junior was found guilty of eight counts, of malice, murder has given life without the possibility of parole. This shocked his family, his brother, his grandmother, did fence team said this was out of the blue they were not expecting a guilty verdict. They felt that had shot down all of the prosecutions points but There were interviews with the jurors after the fact, and they talked about why they came to their decision. They said that they didn't really care about, the witness testimony that about guy being frustrated with his family and talking about turning to kill them day disregarded, a lot. The narratives of the prosecution, but what they couldn't
disregard or throw out was the blood underneath his shorts on his Jem shorts and the fact that he had a shock, from inside of the house that he removed. He said that shocking was hot or stolen. Well, when they checked registration on that Shaka on that weapon. It they belong to one family members and side of the house, one of the victims it is registered to them. So it wasn't a stolen gun. Intel guy stole it. So his statement didn't up there. They also didn't believe his alibi, or they just couldn't take his alibi seriously because there was no back them up with that They also just didn't see else would have the motive to come in and do this especially when it appeared that just came in to massacre the entire family, and nothing
stolen now. The debate, steam and his supporters will sail. Nothing was stolen than what was his motivation to kill him while he did get it. Apparently some pills, possibly possibly the jury, felt that there was just some things that they couldn't explained away and as much as the defence team made the argument, one person cannot kill eight people? I want to point out something here. My all was nineteen years old, but he had down syndrome. Then we have Chrissy twenty two year old female? Many are Michel whose fifteen then your brow That is forty nine, but in a wheelchair, do you think any of these victims could have stood a chance against guy, why dont know I think the main and here is it has to do with the time this occurred? you know, if you say there are nine p,
but waiting and ready for someone to it act and that's one thing, but if you say hey. It's really late into the night and they're not expecting, went to do anything There are unaware yeah, I dont see a problem, with one person taking out this many people, it's not impossible. I will admit that it's not plausible on the face of but it's definitely not impossible and if somebody did want to take everyone out while they slept by beating them, wasn't a gun used a gun to shoot. People were so it is possible that but he could be bludgeoned in the middle of the night and other people wouldn't hear it would continue sleeping it's possible and I think that point rather the Incas. I I don't know, have you got for saying that? I too you're a woman couldn't stop them or whatever, but I really feel like when it down to it. You know he who the assailant is has the upper hand. So this is,
how the jury Caesar and they don't think it's possible day think that it would be very unlikely that he would have blood on his germ shorts underneath his regular shorts there. see how that would get there. They don't. Leave. His story of worry was during the night, although there were I witnessed testimony that morning I saw him and they said he wasn't covered in blood and he was acting normal. Their word be fair. Some reports of people saying that he seemed to be an edge, but they attributed it to him having used drugs. So That makes sense to its it's kind of an explanation. Exactly now of course, he's going to try to appeal, this and his family and friends are for the most part, supporters and they're gonna point all of the issues with this case. Something that come up is that polygraph, her Kenneth. Well, he in twenty fourteen,
We did guilty to a single count of perjury over his testimony and guides. Yours case? Heal may be sentenced to five years probation and ordered to pay a one thousand dollar fine. This is all because he lied about whether guy, Heinz Junior indicated descent, during polygraph, and this is why polygraph should never be admissible and I dont know how disguise testimony came up sides. It was just an probation during a polygraph tests, but this guy lied. That's problem, they also point out how this crime scene was not processed correctly things weren't tested and evidence was destroyed, yet still use against sky and trial. They too have valid gripes here. I think if you take photographs- and you c in the photographs that something has blood on it,
You know that it wasn't collected. I think, that's a problem and we can't just reward bad him situations in that way. I think you have the whole people account. I also know that we get messages here in there that say come on these invest scares. They were ready to handle a crime like this and unlike, but you want to give them the conviction, that's a problem for me, I mean and I will say I do believe that the investigators went down the right path. It wasn't a wrong path to me, maybe you can tell me all day long that guy wooden have harmed his family Bob LAW, but he makes for a very good person of it They should investigate him. They should focus on him. I get it, but don't take short cuts like that. Now you can't say I wages have to understand this and that it somewhere I find the line yet, if he didn't This crime, a law,
all these members of his family to violence that you're just doubling the paintings feeling it's horrible, Frederick and I am gonna leave it up to the audience to tell us what they think, because do you think He could have got blood on his Jim shorts by merely being at the crime scene. Do you think he could have gotten blood on the top of his sandals by merely walking around a crime scene. Do you think that This shot gun in the trunk is a smoking gun to describe see? Would someone have the wherewithal to pull this? shock and out of the home, because he thinks it's hot or stolen, or do you think that tat was to steal the shocking and be an opportunist about it. Do you think it was fun? for them to pull this germ number one five too often that jury panel, mother, all
questions, Justin! That's by this cases of hotly debated online. never miss an episode of generation. Why subscribed to us on Apple podcast, Spotify, Cast box or reverie listening right now? Also He sure to follow us on social media. Our tik Tok is at general. Pod are ins Graham, is at generation? Why podcast join wondering plus in the wondering app to listen, ad free
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Transcript generated on 2022-02-28.