Join wondering plus in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering I do doing tonight, I'm doing good. How are you doing I'm doing good I heard about a weird video online where eighteen it. Asked for help scorn on with their right there. Sixteen year old girl. That was a,

she could say being driven in a car by sixty one year old man, and she was asking for help now. You know, if you're in a vehicle- and you don't want to let the person who I would say, in this case abducted you to know you're, trying to get help the best you can do is signal for help, and it just so happy and said, there's been a signal that Tik Tok use This had been spreading around the violence. Signal for help and if you look this up on Tik Tok, it's basically you hold up your hand with your thumb across your palm in all. war fingers up, and then you lower them over the thumb. You trap. The thumb that me Since you need help, and so this and is driving and this girl had gone missing from North Carolina and there was a person driving along in Laurel County Kentucky He who noticed this teenager doing the signal for help and because they had

this gesture on Tik Tok. They knew just what it meant and they took it seriously and called, I believe, the Laurel County Sheriff's office I'm assuming they came in, the car over and did a welfare check and figured out the sky was not her. Father and shouldn't have had her in the car bright and this person had crossed multiple states. His name was James Herbert Brick and he was, art with first degree unlawful imprisonment. They also found a phone that he had that. Well, we'll say, allegedly portrayed a girl who was a minor between the age of twelve and eighteen. This is where, to talk for you know all the people that don't take it seriously if it gets in, know stupid or silly whatever it is. This is something you gotta give credit for, so many people have used talk for good, and this is just one of those things I'm always happy to hear about. When

something good comes at a social media because I don't think so media, stupid or childish. I think most of its toxic and it's it's always good to see things that aren't that way, right as a story with a red ending. We don't know what would have happened, but for her like those signals meant she knew she was in trouble and luckily some was able to help. Furthermore, if anyone's interest that we do have our own tik Tok, it's at Jan. Why pod there we are put up videos about upcoming episodes or sometimes just and gives com, Terry on something or, and one of the things also like that you do and you ve only done it a couple times so far as you give a behind the scenes commentary about the show about perhaps are original music or whatever else you come up with to talk about and just the other day I actually helped out. Another thought: stop the vanished with some audio, and I need to make a tick talk about that. Still awesome,

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nice concern is about three random murders that laud forcing have a hard time investigating and they happen somewhat far apart so They're, not gonna, tie them together and it's a mystery with love, try angles and murder. for higher, which, as you know, you stand that we ve covered a lot of wives and has been to hire people to murder their significant others, but typically it turns out that there, the hiring an FBI agent or something to that effect, and in this case, though, they ve, somebody who was truly a hitman with that. What are we talking about tonight night were talking about the case of John Wayne Hearn? Who, because he had gotten a bit older and was no longer employed in the military decided. He wanted new adventure

the new employment, new opportunities and decided to play some ads in soldier of Fortune magazine offering his services, but the calls he got the requests that he got. Let him down a different path, I think. Even he was expecting then that name John Wayne Hearn mean the only other John Wayne. You know as well as the middle name is John Wayne Gacy, so Mama, don't let year, babies grow up to be named John Wayne, anything good advice. This takes place in Phil Florida for the most part? And then Is the mid eighties Justin, my favorite time, those with a good days right, like good music out, then there was good music. I don't know what were you listening to and the media is Justin Most part, I listen to a lot of the scent pop kind of stuff, the typical eightys, which was like flies seagulls and Deronda, ran neo,

in my language, Duran Duran. They just came out the new album, its phenomenal, but I will say that by the Ladys I had discovered industry, Austria in skinny, puppy and metal her metal who metals and that same. But in this case just we all know how these things occur. It's because people, start to resent or have a problem with their say, to others or boredom. I think we'll get to that. But that's really the set up here. So let's talk about the the victims, you talked about these murders- it was January sixth, nineteen Five Cecil baby was thirty, three years old, He was shot through the front window of his home. While he slept on the couch now, if any one word it just put that now

in front of me, I would say well, it was either a dry by shooting where they were just shooting, randomly or It was a stray bullet that enter the home and hit somebody that was asleep like this couldn't have been intentional butter Cecil. What happened to be involved in a custody battle with Marlene sense at the time of his death that suck about this. Steady battle, though Marleen was his former wife, and so they were involved in this the battle, and it was pretty heated, neither one wanted to give ground. So this was really just you could say, a person of interest for the police but tat. I may She has done this It seems random enough, so there next murder was the murder of Joe. Anna Stir, it was close to them. Thirty p m on February sect. Ninety five, when the brain County sheriff's office received a call

Vietnam, one reporting a car crash. This was in a drainage. Ditch most stretch of highway, so officers were despatched and they found Joe banners Who was forty one at the time gist dead behind the wheel is car. He was slumped over the wheel, delights lights is motor was running and it looked like. The car hedges either been. off the road or driven off the road he was eating from the head, so they thought maybe he had hit head during the accident right, they attempted CPR to save his life, but they couldn't revive him and they knew who he was because they found his driver's license and he was pretty much intact wasn't, really any damage to obscure his face so because they who thought they were assigned to an accident, they are taking their time they're looking around at the vehicle, but they really see how this vehicle would have been pushed off. The road or anything that

was pretty much intact, so they're like this, isn't the kind of accident that would cause someone step there looking up vehicle, they notice that the drivers side window is shattered, but there's no collision or anything this. Let's another something else probably happened. So looking all over and they keep confirming what they thought originally way. This isn't look like an accident, that's when they send his body off to the morgue and they will have an autopsy done, at one twenty. The morning officer Winston Barber drove over to Deborah Ban. Stars house, Jos, wife, to give her the bad news that her husband instead and Deborah broke down. She said my husband and I we drove separately to a friends house for dinner and I left well before he died. So then she asked him whereas Joe, where did you find it? He said? Well, we found him in his vehicle in a ditch

and that his body was sent to the morgue for an autopsy and she didn't want him to have an autopsy done. She didn't want his body cut up. He said, while it's procedure, and now it's not your call February. First nineteen, eighty five, a man and by the name of Bob Black arrives after running errands and his son is the first one to go inside the home and he makes a terrible discover hurry. He finds said his mother has been shot to death. These are the three murders in this case and, of course, be as each of these individuals had been shot, but in different circumstances, nothing really that connects them. As far as Instigation goes: that's where you need a lot. Work, and you need some luck tat. Something is he has so the active is told Deborah Banister about

her husband's death and he's gotten a little push back about the autopsy but February third tat. They get the autopsy results and, as they suspected Joe didn't die in a car crash. He died from two gunshot wounds. One to the back of his head, which was like a grazing wound and then another one to the side into his brow. Killing him instantly. So once again, the officers need contact, Deborah they're, telling Your husband was shot to death, but She has a weird question: she wants to know what the caliber of the weapon was that killed her husband. Then I would say that would be the last question on my mind, if I heard about my husband or wife being shot, I would want to know where who and what are you doing about it, but not kind of Gunnar? What caliber where they killed with that's just weird.

Well, everyone react differently right, just two days later that the wrapper county Sheriff's office got a call from it. Skaters at the ALA Tewa County Sheriff's office. This is, The office s investigating the murder of Cecil Baby, who we talked about already. This is because officers that were investigating Cecil babies murderer were kindness, specious of Marlene Sims. It's the only real led the had because of the custody battle we talked about now they became more suspicious when, on February, seventh Larry Foster, who Merlin sims third husband came ended. the police that he feared for his life and he told the police about US vicious man that had been hanging out with me, sister, Deborah It's her older sister, Deborah Ann eating, the main name, John Wayne Hearn. That's a good led for them: who is this John Wayne heard there he's referring to? Well, that's something

we'll get into an a bit thing is, is Larry had spent with the police and then, after that, he and his wife got it an argument any hidden head pretty hard. They said he skull injury now more he said he hit me, she ran over him trying to escape Larry. Didn't we recall what happened but his family insisted that Marleen hit him intentionally so the fall out here is that Larry Foster he's partially line after being hit. That, of course, the district attorney speaking to the media called it very suspicious, but now They have a name Justin and the and who had given him, the name may have been almost killed they want to follow up on this John Wayne, Hearn Guy and here's the weird thing. Never banister went to her husband's funeral and she was accompanied by a man who she was.

Producing as her long lost cousin, but Jos family. They didn't buy it. They know her this guy. They were watching them and they were thinking. That's not a cousin. They also said to the investigators and Bradford County in this cousin was being weird at the funeral. He was acting like the life of the party and he wouldn't leave Deborah side, this latter red flags there? So investigators look into John Wayne Hearn they find out. He was a thirty eight old, Vietnam veteran who had worked as a truck driver. He had for previous marriages and lived in a studio apartment near Atlanta. He was having a custody battled zone over his son, who lived with his mom in South Carolina he had been investigated by the Georgia Bureau investigation in the past because he had placed adds in soldier of Fortune magazine. As you know, this is something that the different bureaus

keep an eye on cuz in the back. magazine, there's the classifieds, and you'll get some really interesting stuff back there, especially in a soldier of Fortune magazine and being that he's. Now that the war is over, He doesn't have a lot going on in his life. to be kind of a loner can't keep a relationship or a marriage together, I'm sure he's too to figure out a way to feel more important He really is and that's why, decided to put ads in the back of this. magazine and depending on where you read, or what you see that this case, some of them are more or less. I will do bodyguard work security work for you for a couple hundred today, too I'll do dirty deeds done dirt cheap. Just the OECD Seesaw now these, if they don't have that, do they just and now it's probably,

because of this case now? It is because this case so back and said a of nineteen. Eighty four is, when John, and heard paid forty bucks for an ad to appear in an issue of soldier of Fortune Magazine, the ad red X, marine, sixty seven, sixty nine NOM vat acts D. I weapon specialist jungle warfare. Higher assignments. U S or overseas now. Why would he placed it in that magazine? Justin? That's your target, demographic it's a it's a gun magazine. It's a soldier magazine its everything that mainly men want to read about military news right. Yes and most of the reader, back then, were Vietnam veterans and magazine allowed readers supposed these personal service adds back in the day and well, apparently, John Hearn was getting multiple calls a day. Now he's not the

the person to put ads in the magazine. Of course, that's why they had it may now it was available, but yeah it was said. He was getting three to five calls a day and These requests were for contract killings. For transporting drugs, weapons, even assaults and John Wayne will say that he in reply to any of them, except for when a woman wrote in this was Deborah banister. The we thing is is Deborah has said friend things at one point Shiva said she met John Wayne Hearn for the first time before she ever met Joe Banister, but there's Then the happens when they meet sparks fly and John Wayne Turn is in love, love at first sight and apparently dab. This guy's a lot more exciting. Then her current husband, so Marleen sends was subpoenaed theatre

is wanted her to do an interview. This was for were a nineteen eighty five, while she come alone. She came along with her elder sister, Deborah and when the day active, ass, Marleen about the night that are husband was murdered. She said that Deborah left her children with her. While she and Joe went to dare so kind of banana, what an alibi yeah and because debars right there, the police want to talk to her to and say that there was about an hour difference between Deborah Ann Marlins statements about, went Deborah, picked up the kids, so there's a dust I can see there a red flag if he will Deborah also said that John Hearn wasn't her cousin, because I asked about him. yeah. That's what she had told everyone at the funeral, but she didn't tell detective that she said he's a friend there's no romance here. Not there might that I'm in Sheep

really put him out an arms reach its on February thirteenth, the owl you have sheriff's office, brought job Herndon for an interview, and he was talking to that actors about his add in soldier of fortune and that he could make the three dollars a day doing private bodyguard work when they asked him about his relationship with Deborah Banister. He said strictly platonic, he again kind of distance himself, from her saying you know we're just friends dont know, other that well. But when ask him Where were you on February? Second, he says that he was with his mother and South Carolina, while the detectors ago, speak to his mom Mary Watson, Johns mother, at that local police station and she verified jaunts alibi and they asked her Deborah Banister and she said she,

had no idea who Deborah was so that detective stepped out of the interrogation room, and saw young boys sitting in the waiting room and he goes so the boy goes here. Who are you, who, as one you know, sort of sun Ok you're Johnson is like. Are you from Florida, and they sparkled it'll conversation and The sun said that he had saw Mickey mouse the previous weekend, he's psycho. Who were you with him? He said my dad John, my new mom and dad. like your new Mamma and he pulled out a pitcher of Deborah said, this your new mommy and, of course the son, said yeah at that why the investigators had caught the mental. Why and They knew that there was a lot more going on between Deborah Ann John at that,

Watson Johns mother was covering for them and this all contradicted Johns alibi by the way take moment get a word from our sponsor. Sir Flint. I ordered a pair of the Natalie Flats with leopard print their super cute. it's because these issues are designed by women and actually made for women to walk in, but it should not taken this arm for someone to realise a pair of designer shoe that are going to last for years should actually be comfortable enough to wear and can actually look as great as any other designer shoe. I didn't know that did you, ladies? This is why obsessed with Sarah Flint shoes. Sarah Flint is a woman designing shoes for women, which is why her timeless footwear

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Sweden of restore or sleep number dot com slashed gin. Why sleep number and quality sleep. His life changing sleep. So now this detective ass some ammunition. When he goes back into that interrogation room. Does he not? absolutely and he goes back in threats talking to marry Watson and says hey. I know you lied to me and investigating this murder, so I'm gonna go and charge you with conspiracy to commit murder. If you don't cooperate, unless she say that her Mary Watson she broke down and she came clean about her sons alibi. She said that they were together on that night and then she, even one step further in which this is weird to me. But back nineteen eightys we have we to know, did you they record a phone call. We had

things called the answering machines back then had a cassette tape and she apparently had recorded phone calls between John and Deborah and she hands over these tapes and that's it weren't, you know she. She handed over tapes, multiple tapes, and this is where she was proud. We wrestling with do I for my son, or do I talked to the police in Give up anything. I know because if he's blue but also what he's doing is wrong and they threatened her with a conspiracy subpoena right, but I just but I dont think she would have had these tapes give to them. If she wasn't at least considering doing the right thing, I get what you're saying they forced her hand away yeah, but and she she could have just not had those, speaking with that she was really all inopportune dinner son. True, she could just came clean

the alibi, but providing them with all this evidence of their relationship there affair. Even then, spiralling to commit murder. Any apes are damning, I mean not only do they get the clearer picture of what was going on between Deborah Ann John professing, their love for each other, but also they have it on recording that Deborah is giving details about her husband schedule, so they can put together. So what? still Mary give them a photocopy of a one thousand dollar check made out to her son. He added to her address and the church was, from our man named Bob Black who lived in Ryan, Texas so DE detectors, contacted the brain. Police department and the author there's there said that Sandra Black had recently been gone down in her home

unknown assailant so just in, who incidents. What must this feel like what must have been like when they have three different homicides and they have one name connecting them all. This is paid her. This is where they really had on something big here, because without this term events of them going down the right roads that they could have missed at all. If the detective hadn't just stopped by and talked to the sun in the waiting room, this whole case could have gone differently. Also, John Wayne Hearn had just committee these murders and taken off you have been long gone, but John Wayne Hearn was her in love with them, so he wasn't going anywhere. The other things here is that, since the officers have this named John Wayne, Hearn Marleen Deborah no, they know of him. Now their concern that time is running out. So

tell Mary Watson, you better get hold of your son and tat the term self in for his own safety, because we don't know what's gonna happen and, of course worried that Marlene Deborah may plot to kill him because well, if he taken in, he talks there really in trouble what happens March. Fifteen nineteen, eighty five well John Wayne Hearn, has turned himself into the police in Texas it's weird catches. item in custody for several days, and he can. I gave them sort of Rigour Moreau over a story He ended up telling them everything he told them. Had it all started when he was looking for work, he was placed ads and soldier of fortune and receive ten to twenty calls a day He says that it was in October of eighty four that Deborah Banister contacted him. They agreed to meet

She was so young and attractive. He just fell in love. met at a Shoney's, big boy, restaurant, I remember those and I miss them in Georgia. Ever told him. She wanted some one to intimidate her sisters, Ex husband, Cecil baby. This is where it all comes full circle, the ashes, hoping that, with his pressure that sea, so it fuck off Dad Marleen would get custody of her kids now and this something that's reported in every every story. You read about this case, but at the end of that meeting that first meeting between Deborah John she kissed on the nose, and he just completely fell in love with her this is a guy that was down on his luck, all the I've been in his life is over and now he's attention from this woman and able to do things for her and make her happy and get paid is on top of the world.

He said how he made plans to relocate to gains fell and when they pulled up phone records they found there were thirty seven calls from Deborah to John between. October of eighty four in January of eighty five, many. Finally, to Florida, so there is the problem now to have someone killed the least typically it costs money. Doesn't it just in and we ve heard of cases per you can pay so a few hundred box, but his case. The request was forthwith a thousand dollars but of course Deborah her sister. They don't have that kind of money and their true to negotiate with John Wayne Hearn Of course, when he's A crush on her is, is gonna come down and he apparently doesn't know is worth so they up agreeing to. ten thousand dollars, and this is after she changed her request. from intimidation to murder, now yet understand

not so much. He doesn't understand his worth. I think it's because he sleeping with this woman, so maybe he gets a discount right. It's a third of the and cost ten thousand and apparently wasn't even Deborah. They got him to bring the number down, but I think think she has something to do with it. What we hear, though, is her mother. I a Sims is the one that to say: please bring the costs down, so we can afford this the whole families and on apparently now. Yet have to raise the money some way because they don't even have ten thousand dollars right. So Iris and her husband, Frank decide to invite her mother the grandmother in the family down for a visit to gain spill yeah. She agrees to it and apparently Deborah meant it wouldn't be a shame if grandma's house burn down while she was an gains fell, so she

down for Thanksgiving and when she arrived Deborah, Marleen, basically headed out of the house drove five hours to go, burn third grandmothers house down: they broke the house, any apparent least varnish remover in the house and then set it on fire DA, they arrived home stay now, police or suspicious, because while this grandmother had left town for fifty years, so what was the luck that she leaves home for the first time at fifty years and her house burns down yet that insurance policy and get a bunch a lump sum of money Dasso. This insurance money came through on January. Second, ninety five, so what you're saying Aaron as they could have afforded the thirty thousand well we'll get into this? But the insurance money came through an next day, Marlene CALL John, who was back in Atlanta and they agree

me at a motel and gains fell. The next day she paid him his? Ten thousand in one hundred dollar bills- and he is three hundred dollars of that- to purchase a shotgun Marleen when over two or Ex Husband House, Cecil Baby, to pick up her kids and stole a box he's so use the store insurance papers. I wonder why here's some information that comes through John sure he was being told, he'll be paid handsome. We are right to murder Cecil Baby, but he actually drove ass House housed, Weiss thinking, he wasn't gonna do it, but he drove by third time and finally stop the car and got out and he walked up to the now now remember you'd, you talked about an earlier, you were saying, seem so random yeah. Well for him, it is lock because there were Cecil just there inside the window, there he was able to shoot him and then get out of their real quick. He probably thought why don't leave any evidence?

general seventh night. Eighty five Marleen Cecil's insurance agent, but she was told sorry, but you aren't listed as a Fishery of this thirty thousand dollar life. Insurance policy imagine how happy she was to hear that, so now they have to John yeah, we don't really have your money yet to pay for Cecil's murder. Jammed is glad that this go so poorly for them. It's such a cluster of a situation and Deborah had aims for some the money too, because she went to use some of the money to build the dream. The home for the two of them be together, have a happy life, even opened a joint bank account where Deborah sign her name is Deborah Hearn Do you know how John son called Deborah Mommy? Well, devereuxs kids were calling John Daddy Bottleneck

There were some more information about how John targeted Joe and it was because Deborah left the party an hour before Joe did so all job had to do, was wait for Jos vehicle to come along Pino. It even for Joe came along John. stop Deborah you because he stopped her. She was driving through the area and he made sure she really wanted this done and she said you know get on with it. Basically no remorse, no second thoughts. You know trying to say that John Sis, pure of heart, guy, that's being put into this tough situation. I'm just saying of all the people involved he's the only one that seems to have second thoughts. Now he still carry The murders don't get me wrong. He stole a murderer, but I'm saying interesting that he's trying to tell Marleen he's trying to tell Deborah do they want to think about this of all more know, it's almost

after that, first one once they gotta a taste for it. There all bets are off. Now we want this. Man was working in their favour, and John said when he spotted Jos car. It was about eleven at night, but there is too much traffic. Well, I'm you know shoved the view off the highway as it were, so he got his gun and fire. Joe down a country road and that's when he up alongside and shot him twice, but you know because as of like what you're saying where they got a taste of it well do these two murders Deborah John. You should do this more often because its brain money off course, and that's went Bob Black contacted him in January of eighty five but the first time John turned him down Madeira, now. You can't turn this down. Bob Black also was a Vietnam veteran and he read soldier of fortune in. I was expect

at this point for John Hearn too, maybe push back a little harder because he had been murdering men, but now is being asked to murder a woman, and I guess, watch too many movies. Where there's this code, you know no women, no children, but now John, he seems to go ahead with. It and looking into what happened with Sandra Minute. But this thing that's really significant about this is John, didn't accept this offer from Bob Black until he walked out of the sheriff's office after the first interview, so he was being questioned by the authorities, and then he was released and that's when he went and key Bob and said I right to take the job, that's where that thousand dollar cashiers check came from whose Adam payment and there is also a hand written note. If there anyway, you could schedule your plans. To conclude with me,

being alibis out of town this weekend. It would help considerably and here's the thing Bob lack he was having an affair. It was with his first cut. And he promised John ten thousand dollars to kill Sandra Black, his wife and hears here That's really awful. He said that his wife's really only failing, was that she was slow Lee Overweight? Have you read that anyway, you want its decision gets worse and worse now? Here's the thing before Sandra was to be killed. Bob talk to her and said and I want to get a new life insurance policy going. So we her sign and pay for a new one hundred thousand our life insurance policy wow through the wood, like there's so much, there's so much portrayal here, it's it's a joke. Almost now Bob met up with John at his home, they needed to stage the scene, so would look like a robbery. This is why so Your died she just now be home when there was

robbery and she was killed so mob. Of course, left. Home, so he'd have an alibi and John waited, ambush her when she got home from work here in the dining room and when got in there. He stuck up behind her and shot in the head and this is something I think is now- if you're looking for how this gets worse, Bob Black intentionally sent his son in first so that he would discover his mother dead. Weight of who in a kids life, but when you're hiring contract killers to murder your wife, then I guess you don't really have that many morals anywhere. So we talked- John Hearn had fallen for Deborah he loved her this is obviously one of the reasons he was commend these murders, but it was after Sandra, was murdered. The Deborah too, did John and said we need to break up. You need a runaway also Deborah decided. She wanted to try and sell some of Sandra Blacks jury. So you,

Tell me John tried to do every could fur Deborah, and this is how she thanks him. The but once Deborah gets wind of John mother being question by the police that spooks her and she a meal the cuts things offered with John and Bob Black. Well course he wants to go The life insurance money, the hundred thousand dollars but he doesn't really have any time to talk to the police about his wife's murder, the authorities they have this case put together. There is really no mystery at this point. They ve got of interviews done. They have the recordings, they have the confession from John Hearn, Deborah Deborah Banister, Merlin sims were arrested April fifteen nineteen. Eighty five Deborah was chow. urged in connection with Cecil's murder, along with Marleen, Frank and irish Simms. Says the family. They appeared in court, Jus knife nineteen, eighty five- for they can ever go to court, though Marleen gotta play deal

in every of ninety six. She pleaded no contest to conspiracy to come first degree, murder and arson. Her sentence five and a half years in prison Deborah also pleaded. She pleaded no contest conspiracy to commit first degree, murder and received thirty years. Frank and Iris pleaded no contest to being accessories after the fact and received five years, probation, so whole family down so Deborah had pleaded no contest, in the case the murder of Cecil baby. But when it came to her husband, Joe Banister, well, she went to trial and what happened to trial Justin this time round, her but I was looking at long jail sentence and she was too The fine trial about her affair with John Hearn and she denied ever planning kill her husband but John. Pretty much

on against her at this point, mainly because, once she cut him off He had nothing to lose and they had all of the tapes from his mother. So things were looking good for her during the trial, she wanted the jury to know that she met John Hearn at a truck stop in seventy eight. That's before she moved to Florida, Mary Joe Banister, and she talked about meeting John again in December of eighty four to get away from home and think but she's setting this up as yeah. There wasn't air which on Hearn, but I didn't plot to kill my husband, so she tried to put it off on John, but the jury didn't buy and think that's because the jury believe John Her, because he testified against her she would end up being found guilty of second degree murder in Rio to Joe banisters death. She has for ten years. So, even though on and Deborah are pointing the finger

at each other, he said that she's, the masterminds she's, the one that hired have all these things, John is still enamored by her John is still in love with her, and there is a moment. during trial, where she's fiddling with the ring. Yes, that he bought for her and after after the hearing was over. He was brought into one of the lawyers thing. Did you see she was Fit with the ring, she was showing me that she still cared about me. It's it's pathetic It really is the black family files, a lawsuit against soldier of Fortune magazine because of them allowing this add to run and that it basically precipitated the murders aspire? we have Sandra Black, so John testified on October thirteen nineteen Eight and a deposition, any talked about

calls he received after posting ad and even getting a request for a political assassination. Now he claimed that he met four different vietnam. Europe needs me, name them as Don Jeff David and Warren and said that he had higher them to carry out assignments and was going to accept a wreck? as to bomb the organ commune He does in the end that the com, you was too heavily armed and it wasn't worth the risk, but the magazine, their defence team, seated that the ad brought these together, but they incur did, that the publisher didn't know. The ad was for illegal activity. the admit just ten. They can have a boy. You know I mean you can look at that. Does. It really say I'll, kill people now, but I mean what would they expect right, but is this enough to cover for them? That's a question I guess I think of a more modern time when they went after back page or

craigslist categories and said that it was human trafficking when there were port services or private, massage services being offered, and they went after those websites for those activities- and this is very similar when they're going after soldier soldier of fortune, so the families- a turning the blacks family attorney, said that, because of this is he NAD, Kern murder? Three people in forty five days her and agreed with thy said if, if they had was never run, he wouldn't have killed anybody. The jury found soldier Fourchan magazine liable for Sanders death and ordered them to pay now, in point: four million dollars to Sandra Surviving Sun and mother. Does podcast sponsored by help online therapy, it's the holidays. I know that be rough for a lot of people, maybe you're eating healthy all year round, but then Thanksgiving must come around you're, not gonna. Keep on your game. Psych sticking

to an exercise routine. It's like sticking to a diet, it's going and getting your car maintenance going to therapies like all the above, its routine maintenance for your mental and emotional wellbeing going to therapy doesn't mean something's wrong with you. It means you're in, asking in yourself to keep your mind healthy, better help is customized mine therapy that offers videophone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see any one on camera if you don't want to its much more affordable than in person therapy- and you can start indicating with your therapist in under forty eight hours, wine in anything else and not your mind generation. Why listeners get ten percent off their first month at better help dot com, Slash Jen? Why that's better help be TT? Are eighty lp dot com? I generally ma Black went to trial John. Her has to fight against him said that Bob first met to discuss, selling a gun collection, but after a few conversations he requested help in killing his wife's name

We don't really need to go through any more details on this. This is an open and shut case have the murderer testifying. So what else can you do? Bob black found guilty of cap murder he was sentenced to death and executed. May twenty third. Ninety ninety two at the Texas State prison at the age of forty five, I've and that's why you don't mess taxes? Speakers are higher you hit. Man gets you the death sentence and he had to. To save his own life down. His appeal was an argument that PTSD was response, for all this, but yeah that didn't them. No one bought that story. They said there way too much planning involved, he was to deter to do this. I think the PTSD. What would our work better if he hadn't hired someone else to do the job exactly that that's not how that works, and I but the devil.

hence in anyone's gotta, defend themselves. However, they want yes, but there were people at the time who knew by Black who said that he, comments that he wished. He could kill his wife, but He couldn't do it himself now this soldier of fortune lawsuit where they ended up having to pay nine point four million dollars well yeah that didn't end up working out because a nineteen eighty nine a federal appeals court throughout the award and said that the verdict I was to higher standard on them, his. I take that mean that that add, as it was yeah, they didn't reach the three: told where you could prove that. That's what it meant, and a similar thing happened in the back page and craigslist adzes. They want after them hard for that stuff. But then, when it was all said and done, it was hauled. Trot. Debbie Banister was released from prison. Two thousand for Joy Hearn remains incarcerated in

Carolina now actually looked up his his page. You know you can look up prisoners pages on the internet. I being everything from they ve been what their incarcerated for, and it seems like lately he's made. A few trips way to other locations for medical reasons now some people feel like since Deborah was so deeply involved. In these cases that. She basically got off light. Machines, no longer imprison Scott now in this case. With any end, this was mid, delayed eighties when they went to trial. Do you think of it different if she were sense today sure, just because there are so many different factors and variables depends on the prosecutor. Depend on the judge and depends on. If there were any plea deals. I think that I would want to think doubts. would have gotten a longer sentence today, but

sure yeah think she did get variable sentencing. I definitely believe that she was involved in pretty much every step of this, but now you're right. It's up to the prosecutor. It's up to the district attorney this isn't always bear, but the important thing as no matter how many times John Hearn asked are sure he definitely needed be put away for life. This is someone you want loose as it now. Absolutely not. I mean I am sure that he might have put those ads in the back a soldier Fourchan with better. tensions, but as soon as calls started coming in. I think this gave him some sense of purpose. some sense of excitement- and it was going to, Go this direction, no matter what and nobody twisted his arm. Nobody forced him to do this at gunpoint. He Is the source of all of this violence

I would say, is that where we ve already kind of alluded to it is, I think he wouldn't. Have done all this. If he didn't fall in love with her, he made it up I to say that he had turned down Ali offers prior to meeting Deborah. Let's again you have people who you get the right to people together. Things happen. They you never thought possible, never miss an episode of generation. Why subscribe to us on Apple podcast, Spotify, Cast box or reverie listening right now, also sure to follow us on social media. Our tik Tok is at GEN. Pod are in Graham is at generation. Why podcast join wondering, plus in the wondering, app to listen ad free?

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