October 4, 1983. Dallas, TX. Rozanne and Peter Gailiunas decided to build their dream home, despite the fact that their marriage was on the rocks. Peter began to suspect that his wife, Rozanne, was having an with Larry Aylor, the man hired to build the new house. In October of 1983, Rozanne was found dead, the victim of a shocking crime. This case is full of affairs, divorce, murder conspiracies, and betrayal. Join us as we discuss a case that you'll be talking about for some time to come.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join wondering class in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering how you doing I'm doing pretty good just and how are you feeling well, everyone analyzes how I respond to you so today. I'm doing well, there
analyzing this. Yes, they used to just analyze me because you are all happy in like hey. Are you do in body, and I was like I am ok and there like what's wrong with Erin. I guess we ve switched roles, and they can tell there's something wrong with me and what's been, with me is twenty twenty and twenty twins over so were turning over a new leaf. Now we're trying to do better. That's it we're trying any who I'm calling is happening. The one Austin. Obviously is happening because its taxes and dates on that are June for through sixth and we're going to The UK also right yes, and that date- was insured but was now moved to September, twenty fifth and twenty sixth, that's in London and it you want to get a discount on your tickets, use our code. Please Jen why twenty one fifthly, everybody will be vaccinated by then and life.
Be grand well. I can for myself. I am looking forward to getting vaccinated. I got my first shot and I was tired for about a day, had a sore arm, but nothing really outlandish and after my second shot I will be volunteering at vaccination sites in Kansas City. I know we, We do a lot with the podcast cast end, Sometimes you just gotta, be face to face with people to know the good you're doing.
Donkey rose from the life of hardship in crime to become the most successful boxing promoted. The sport is ever seen the first black men to do so. It was his own american dream, dance, flamboyant, appearance, dizzying, wit and commanding personality made him a star in and out of the ring, but is less than honest, exploits tat made him. Legendary Don king may have taken advantage of his fighters and burned a lot of bridges, but he always seem to find another power Don king. The third instalment of something else is power. Series tells the story of one of entertainments, most controversial figures. Listen and follow what ever you get your part. It feels like we're all getting less less steps, less sunlight less being in the office are Well, that last ones not so bad. But aren't you ready for more? You probably already oh, that price line is a leader in online travel, deals with deep discounts on flights, hotels, rental, cars and more. But did you know that with price line you can save up? This
Sixty per cent on your favorite hotels and you can also get exe- this deals on rental, cars and flights, and when you save more, you can do more or steps more sunlight and no matter where you travel still less being in the office. Price line knows that every trip is a big deal. So when you're ready to book your next one check out price line, dot com for the easiest way to get more out of your next trip So tonight's case earn we actually put this on. a little bit because I was having a rough weaken, didn't think I is ready for the complexities of it. But. let's just say that jealousies and affairs- can turn deadly in any situation. So with that, what are we talking about tonight? tonight will be talking about a couple. Bucks of Roseanne Peter balloonist. They lived and died. Alice, but there too
we'll started when they decided to build their dream home. The person who is going build their dream home. Well, he and his wife once they entered their lives. Everything changed so this happened in Richardson, which is a neighborhood in Dallas Texas, families. There that's the money and homes are four hundred five hunter, thousand dollars. You might be sneezing at that but when you understand when this case takes place, it means but more doesn't it now. I was, The early eighties, sir, you pretty much a double whatever amount, and that would be a million dollar home. Let's talk about these couples, let's start with Roseanne and Peter Louis Roseanne was a nurse and a mother, Peter, had gotten married
in nineteen seventy eight, so they ve been married about four years before they moved to Dallas. and decided that they are going to move to Texas and build their dream home. Now Peter was a doctor. At. U T southwestern Medical School, he was actually in the process of divorcing At the time that this goes down The builder is named, Larry. Ailer he owned, Ailer huh construction. He was married. To joy, and they had been happily married quote unquote for awhile, joy, helped him with his business. There were just a unit, There were a team, but I think both These marriages MA it is then
little bit on the rocks at about the time that these two couples came together and Larry was contracted to build their dream home, so these couples they were having troubles. That's not Really anything that's unique, but when you have two couples coming close contact with one another in neither apple is exactly happy. Things can happen in this case Larry. a liking to Roseanne that affair, seem to catch on, quick and I tried to keep it under wraps for a while, but it was obvious that neither one of them were happy our current marriages to jump into this, so fast What we understand is is joy, wasn't happy with her husband Larry, because there was verbally abusive towards her away.
especially hard on her when it to the finances, he kept a tight rein on their funds. Here he felt that she was always over spending and she felt like she was being controlled now one of the thing that supposedly was a day Guilty in their marriage early on was well, Roseanne became pregnant, okay, He asked her to stop working because he said what you home, so she we do that, but he also was upset because he said that he thought he was sterile. He didn't think he could have kids. So this praying she was something he just didn't trust, so Obviously he suspected infidelity. He is by, I think Venza happening. Is he realized? Is he wants the mare to work and he's been pretty hard on Roseanne, so
he does? Is he says I'm going to build our dream home is hoping that it will make her happy and make our field. Or about being at home because his Work has been doing very well he's, making good money and he's not home as much anymore. So this dream home is really awaited, tie them together in a more concrete way, but this is where They meet Joy and Larry Ailer join Larry had been married, since nineteen sixty eight and had together a few more years pass that bad son and this was a big contract further building the size of home has a lot of money so late jumped out the opportunity. Larry was the type I to show off his money. He drew a luxury cars he had a boat. He had a right out in the country. He was Harry flashy, but is one of those things where he
all the money was his and he didn't share with joy. He got by all the toys and joy just should have been appreciative that she was for the ride. It definitely is to people going in different directions. that's how it's always described. Flashy and joy, and really into the money. Anyway, she was into their son Chris. He was born in eighteen. Seventy. Larry was so controlling that he told you way that she couldn't see. five on her own. A shiver left him. That's walking her into this marriage into this relationship and over time. She seemed to just kind of become disconnected and she seemed uneasy time she was around Larry and this just is a very poor dynamic for a marriage Larry? Of course,
doesn't see anything wrong with this because he's the breadwinner and he's gonna make all the decisions by joys, friends their concerned, because she asked them strange questions like do you think I'm selfish and theirs they ask her like. Why would you think that Well, obviously, it's because Larry has told her you're selfish you're stupid I mean this is just verbal abuse and gas lighting. It was a nineteen he too when joy underlines tree, to try and make her husband happy. Things went well very well and she thought I'll, get this breast augmentation and my husband wool like me more and that's really sad because she should be doing for herself. She should be doing it for around self confidence. But this is her trying to save the marriage and again there is some
suspicions here that Larry's not happy with her, and on the other side, Peter is suspect. the resolution is cheating, so this home this dream home the can struction on it began in May of nineteen eighty three and that same month Zan moved out of the house that she shared with Peter, even though his dream home is being built. This couple is parting ways through separate but they're, trying to me their son, a priority and not grew up his life as they agree upon divorce terms, Peter and Larry wearing, the builder, whose having an affair with Peters wife, become friends, They go quail hunting together and one day, Peter who was suspecting that Roseanne was cheating on him, asked Larry if he thought
that Roseanne was seeing another man and, of course, Larry's quick to come back with no way she's, not that kind of person, but Peter didn't believe him. so. He hired a private, investigator and What did he find out as well? honestly, don't think they needed a private investigator here, but yeah they found what was probably suspected early on, which is Roseanne and Larry Ailer were having an affair so coarse. Now that peat, knows this for sure he confront them. They both deny it. They say no you're wrong but he noticed tat. Larry was very abrasive and insulting when denying it Larry had then Unhappy with joy Larry had been abusive towards her, but as soon as he started having an affair he did
seem to be as aggressive as abrasive as controlling, yet people would ask him so what's going on with you, and they hint maybe he enjoy we're doing well by it. He let them know with someone else,. obviously Roseanne and Peter had filed for divorce, but now that the cats out of the bag, Larry, in the filing for divorce from joy just four days, apart from when Roseanne and Peter were separating and ironically, Rosanna and Larry would hire the same lawyer and they both deny the affair. Larry has been caught and starts receiving, harassed phone calls P hang up poor, they would you. Breather say something offensive Larry believe These phone calls were coming from his Ex wife joy, most
Joyce friends didn't know about Larry and joy separation, but one of them did Bradshaw and she said that, these harassing phone calls. They were from joy to Larry. They were there. way around which at this point go off of the personality types. Larry was the abusive one. Joy was the victim in this situation, so it's somewhat believable so Larry closes their joint bank account and ITALY. joy with no funds. This is where maybe desperation comes into play October. Fourth, nineteen. Eighty three something terrible happens After six p m Roseanne is brutally murdered in sight of her home her for Your old son would end up finding her He was stripped of Oliver Clothing Tide, to her bed strangled with a belt, and
the whole were pushed down her throat. She also, two gunshot wounds to her head this, obviously overkill. But she was alive when the perimeter Scott there. She was sponsor, but had a pulse and, of course, Her son, P, Junior was scared and he met them or they even got in to see his their Roseanne and he pointed to she was presented, taught her son how to call his dad. In case he needed to get help, and so he called Peter. He said mom sick. She will, wake up within two days, she's take off life support she never regained consciousness, the home showed no signs of forced entry. The crime scene, photos from the home were relatively clean. There was nothing out of order. Nothing was
ransacked- nothing was stolen that they could tell so with that Erin somebody came into the home and murder her in the most brutal way and robbery was not a motive and the way she was murdered was almost ritualistic. I think that made the detectives think this could be a serial killer, or this could be a just somebody that hated her and wanted her to suffer when Peter got there to pick up his son police asked him. Would you come in for an interview, and he said with my attorney present, and what do you say that just I mean? Is that what you always tell people yeah, I mean that's, he did the right thing. I mean yes, he is the husband who was being cheated on he is the prime suspect and he can
exercises rights, but when he was there. He found it that there was another person but I of late Ailer the boy friend of his Ex wife and police are looking around thinking. Well, we might just have to, suspects at the scene. Already I mean there is this triangle here and that's exactly what I would be thinking also so it's there sure. It's police department that has this case and it detective Coralie, who interviewed Peter now, Peter said he was expecting his axe to bring Peter Junior to him. He said he had made multiple phone calls trying to reach her, but he didn't know about anything until his son called him just as he was taught to, and of course they want to know what have you been doing today,
they wanted to know his timeline, so he told them. I worked until five and six I was waiting for call so I could get my son, but looking over his timeline. They found in yes, gap from four p m to four forty five. he was alone in his office napping according to him, but no one could verify that He obviously has motive. He was very. open with the detectives. He said that he had hired a private detective to looking to his wife and her affair. He knew about his work, if an Larry Cities very upset with them So this is coming together for the detectives detective Mackenzie interviewed Larry Ailer Larry did admit, having an affair with Roseanne and well when it met to talk about the house
she had told them. She was unhappy intermarriage and very said basically same and that's of how their relationships started and they fell quickly for each other, so they weren't just talking about having an affair, they were talking about getting divorced, and then marrying each other and married? He didn't have even as good an alibi is Peter. Did he pay and the sea Roseanne that afternoon but she wasn't answering her phone. So he D I'd, go on a cried and unlike Peter Larry decided to get the detectives a suspect. He said he finally did it so detective Mackenzie asked him what he saw. Gamma Ray you talking about, and he said doktor balloonist. Finally, did it he's blaming Peter because that's what makes sense to him what We here, though, is these detective. They are doing his interviews. There She going the opposite directions.
Mackenzie is thinking he I think Larry did it. Detective Coralie is thinking Peter This crew has more motive, so I can see it both ways. On October fifth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty three joy met the detectives at her attorney's office, and she said Larry told me all about his affair of Roseanne. And she seemed very calm answer their questions. They have information they have the time lines, but what's another tool they can break out Justin. Will they can do that? Polygraph? test and see who's lying right right and you know I think we ve done ass this in the past. We both are kind of if he on these things, but It is a tool you might see something it might help your case. So why not use it right, look at it eyes More stress during an interrogation and somebody might break under that stress? But as far as
its viability. Now you can throw this thing out, so this polygraph testing, really get the much other, then maybe Peter Larry enjoy, have nothing to do with this crime. Are they start thinking? She go back to the way that Roseanne was murdered. She was strain old, she had pantyhose. Down her throat and she had been twice in the head. She was bound maybe it was a serial killer, but who stayed connected to this case. Justin Larry he was definitely the the focus here. He's the one person who contacted the police from time to time asking if there were any updates. So that's and of interesting Peter didn't do that. Joy didn't do that. I know about you, but just based on that think maybe he really was in there Roseanne. Maybe that's why he's calling
yeah. I mean those are the two ways you can think of it. Is he loved it cared about her and he once justice in this case, or he wants to get up aids to see how close the detectives are getting to him. This murder definitely causes something to happen, which is Larry Route and the joy and by that Christmas, nineteen, eighty three people are thinking, mount they're closer than they ever have been the recent memory getting along, but it's something weird happens. On June fourteenth Ten eighty six joy He had asked lair to meet her out. Age to go horseback riding nice. Romantic day out, so Larry and his friend dawn drove out to the ranch and he was go horseback writing but joy was no show, and this isn't like her
She says we're gonna do this, then that's the plan so hang out at the ranch for a little bit and then they had back down that isolated too, De Road and there ambushed by a barrage of gunfire. somebody lights them up, Larry survives uninjured, but friend on get shot in the arm. The car was full of bullet holes, Larry thinking well, Roseanne was murdered. Could this be connected? He calls detectives like he has been and asks. Does this house anything to do with Rosanna murder. detectives herb stonewalling em in saying no tick moment. You
from our sponsor care of care of his wellness bran. That makes it easy to maintain your health goals with customize vitamin plan to helps you feel your best today and supports you long term. I took the care of in depth five minutes likewise. Ask me questions about my diet. Lifestyle and health concerns. It's a holistic quiz and it's like getting a one on one consultation with the news scientist. I gotta personalized tailored approach to my specific wellness goals and, right now there are celebrating women's history month. They know MA my partners and business owners have allowed on their play, but small routines like drinking a glass of water or taking your vitamins can go a long way in helping you prioritize your health and self care where's spun, easy and informative. I've been taking them for a couple weeks no feeling better. Already I love care of. I know you will two and four fifty percent
off your first care of order, go to take care of dot com and enter the code Jen. Why fifty that's take care of dot com and enter the code g and W H? Why five zero? You started a small business because you had a passion for pottery, a skill foresaw where or mine for manufacturing and not necessarily for you're no held the business side of running a small business. Thankfully, that's what quick books is all about. Writing new small business owners with the tools they need to feel confident from day one, because with quick books you can get paid, run payroll and nowhere your business days from the start so well. You may not know everything when it comes to the business side of things with quick books, you can still get everything done for your business new business, no problem success starts with into a quick books, quick books, payroll, quick books, payments and quick books. Online account required It's interesting because joy had filed for divorce. On June twenty six nineteen, eighty five, but I Jane
eight nineteen. Eighty six, the divorce to attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the case because Join Larry. They wanted to keep their men. Together. But after this attack, I think it was about two days. Larry discovered that joy was in full with a man named Jody Packer, so he files for divorce and it's on August, nineteen, ninety six, when they are official divorced and of course, as a the battle over their assets. Now during this whole battle joy, a package in her mailbox with a dead fish head, but she didn't report this police. Just images odd, because I don't know You take that, but there might be some kind of a threat. That's how I Take it I mean. There's the his head in the in the bad there's a fish head in your mail box. This is pretty boating there's a mess. here, but she doesn't report it. Larry does Larry moves on with his life and he
all end up. Marrying a woman named Jan Bell: yeah that have and by his friends. Think still wishing that he was with joy instead because he keeps talking about her and Jan seems a little put off by the He talks about his ex, I feel like he might have just wanted to stay with her, but he couldn T her having an affair on him because now he's a hypocrite, but it ended abruptly, and I think that, It doesnt sit well with him so ape nineteen. Eighty eight it's been about five years since Roseanne was murdered. There's this mysterious informants that tips the police off woman claiming to know what happened to you. sang governess, so did The Mc Gowan says me at midnight at a restaurant. this is so like
film New are Europe. Maybe it did night yeah Shiva comes with a name. Just call me, MRS Mud, something a Primus song, she followed up by saying Tita. Who else I am. I am joy. His sister Carol, he goes on to tell Mc Gowan about how Joy herself told her. I think, Larry. hailed Roseanne colonists, and I think I'm India, Here too, I need your help. to hire somebody to kill Larry. So carols saying I agreed to help her because we really fell like she would be killed, so we had to up Larry. Both Larry had killed Roseanne and such a horrible manner then They feel their lives in danger, and now we know that he was past blade joy who,
Bush, Larry or hired somebody to ambush Larry and that hail of bullets, while this guy that they found was Bill Garland, so Carol paid him five thousand dollars? that, but she ended up marrying him bill Garland was, Sadly the guy that would recruit the people that were to kill Larry. He was like the point man, so Bill told Carol. Larry. Didn't, kill, Rosanna balloon ass. Yours, your joy, wanted to kill her thank goodness this necessary things get really interesting because up to this point the detective thought wow. This is all Larry but as time goes on this detectives, learning that its joy, who should be the focus here The only question here is Mc Gowan kind of wonders: if Carol simply there to collect the reward theirs ward for information. In this case
she's, giving this kind of elaborate tale. Who did it? Somebody? this guy gimme the mud. For the reward I get it there not really buying it, but It's still the most information they ve had in a long time some of the problems that this detective had with caraway. is the Carol was saying her family was verbally and physically abusive towards her, and that joy was the favorite child. It was carol that would take the blame for any wrongdoing and They also knew that she had been diagnosed with mental illness and treated at a psychiatric unit and nineteen seventy She had also had the police called on her a number of ties for causing disturbances at her home. This invites threatening her Ex husband, Michael Walter, when he was late with child support payments. carols, not exactly the most credible witness and the fact that she is Joyce older sister, but took part in some
this underhanded staff, but then as joy was always the favourite and she was abandoned or neglected. It's a lot to taken for the investigator but it also reeks of jealousy my way She put this on her sister. Maybe it was for her to have some pay back, so carols not really believed by anybody, but you know that is the only information has come in and quite some time I mean Carol, it's off saying that she only saw her family on holidays and then, all of a sudden in early Nineteen eighty six joy starts calling her. The timing is impeccable, so this may not be bad information. So, at this point girl had told police that garland her husband had put gun to her head and threatened a killer and kept his things and tried to leave Carol, so she called cops and accused him of assault where
garland was arrested Carol had disguised her voice and called crimes. Stoppers she's telling crime, stoppers, p, and Larry that garland her husband was involved and Rosen's murder so she's throwing garland under the boss right now, so care does what Larry says to do, which is go to the police and Mc Gowan This is a chance for him to find out how real this is so Carol, agrees to wear wire and joy at a restaurant. If she's right, maybe she. Get joy to talk about this and I ll get it on tape and sure enough on this recording way admits to her involvement in the murder of Roseanne kind of got your point here. Is you think it's Peter you think it's Larry, all
these men that were having the affairs, but it was the scorned wife who was cheated on joy, who now admits, That she's, the one that had Roseanne murdered, This is not unexpected Justin, but that first recording was too noisy so the police to Carol had said. Can you do this one more time, but talk to joy in a car a hotel room. We need a cleaner, recording and Carol says sure. Are you what if they had any doubts about Carol? Those are all sliding away? May twenty said Nineteen, eighty eight detectives ass joy, Ailer they charge with Roseanne murder that same day bilge and was taken into custody. Now, of course, they think bill garlands, they hit man, but this wall get fired,
out here. You said this was kind of a complicated case. It is because there are all these players there being orchestrated by joy. Detective Morris Interview, they'll garland, and he was telling the detective that in eighteen eighty three, a man by the name of Karl NASA, contacted him. He was a friend of his and he said I know someone who needs help bill said I will do the job, but I know somebody who can handle a for you. Probably what do you want done and he was told we somebody eliminated. So there are all these people that become involved bill, Garland hired Brian Keith. Careful hired a man by the name of Anti hopper, and when Garland got the payment. He took two thousand dollars of the five thousand dollars had passed it. To the others? So these up you guys they got fifteen hundred dollars apiece to kill somebody not a lot of money so because, of course,
This is a chain of people, the people who got honey passed it down. They know who is in front of them. They know beyond them. But of course this starts to separate everybody from the original orchestrator from joy, but Bill Garland admitted I was involved the nurse joy said they had another job, then mother piece of white Paper, Larry Ailer, so coarse, that's when they arrested he's, obviously the guy that Amber Larry and shot up his car and shot. His friend now joy isn't the kind of person to just admit everything and give up. She said in them I want to go home and she gets to on a hundred and fifty thousand dollar bond was gonna say I mean they give her bond. She makes the bond because she's got money and what does she do after she walks free she fleas. But meanwhile, because
They do have these confessions understand? This is a conspiracy joy, paid bill. Garland to find and hire a hitman. Garland then found this autumn mechanic, Brian Lee Creole, and He found someone else to help him by the name of Anti Hopper, so known as George Anderson Hopper. Each person a small amount of money. This we're talking to thousand dollars, fifteen hundred hours and fifteen hundred dollars whenever you heard someone say you can have when killed for not very much money. Well, I think this is proof that please, while they understand Carol his told them a lot of truth here they also still earthquake him and that she wasn't involved, I mean she would she did Mary, the guy that he found to orchestrates the hiring of these killers. There's more here, that we need to figure out,
and she has all the information to now Carol. She says try to get out the deal by the police, our by She also says he tried warning with joy and Larry, specifically when her husband sent the dead fish head to joys home so. There goes one mystery. We know that solve now, but Caroline Bill had been blackmailing joy. with a story about a girl friend of one of the hitman threatening to go to the police, and I and this is because he wasn't enough money not for this type of job so they were saying: hey you to pay this girlfriend off, so Carol claimed joy, paid bill. Garland twelve thousand five hundred dollars for another hit, because we gotta just this worse and worse, to see once everybody that could bring them down, but this girlfriend, this was all made up dead. That wasn't, but it was a way to get more money out of joy,
but Carol says she warned joy about this set up. So there's this question: Maybe Carol knows enough because she was involved or maybe she's, just Alice of joy always has been. Maybe she's not involved at all and she's just trying to help police out. Does she feels joy should be brought to justice, but the way that the detectives can clear this whole case up They need to interview everyone. They can get their hands on because they can start to calculate the stories. They'll figure this out they start charging everyone with capital, murder, and at that point, when you leverage your suspects with that kind of charge. they're gonna start turning on each other, they're gonna start saying no. No! No! I wasn't that involved So, and so was the king pin, Joy was the one that told us what to do and there
certain distance themselves. From this, I, like you, said that, because if we went every freaking story that was told by all of these different people, or we could be her awhile and they're, not that interesting, they move, he just involve made up people again to distance their own involvement. To say yeah. I accepted some money, but I really pastime most the money to this other person who doesn't exist now Andy Hopper. He felt his polygraph they don't believe his story about this drug dealer. He supposed they pass money onto he confesses. After that he knows the gig as the detectives are going to help. To him, he never requested a lawyer Justin. I dont know what think by almost feel like he was confident he could talk his way out of this, but it didn't work, so they get the story from Hopper. He's telling detective Mc Gowan. What happened on the evening of Acta Fourth, nineteen, eighty three, he said
act on Roseanne store. He was intended kill her. He had brought flowers is going to pose as a flower delivery guy, so and opened the door he pulled his. On her and forced her into the bedroom. That's when he took her clothes. tighter to the bed and attempted rape. Now she started to get free, so he covered her face with a pillow and shot her. Now, according to him, the Sun Peter Junior never left his bedroom while he was there and of course, fled the scene after he attempted to kill her, which she did and dying. Obviously, but they charged him with capital murder. They were looking at the death Pennell for him now we know that rosetting balloonist was murdered because we wanted her eliminated by it accordant The interviews and a story they ve got. They think that there were about five people she wanted
I mean we know of at least two rosy. an Larry, so Three more is not a leap. Chris Ailer die in a car accident on the freeway. This was on December. Twenty sixth. Ninety eighty nine, the army, this obviously caused way more turmoil between joy and Larry there, arguing over where to bury him. This is just causing way more conflict but joy has other troubles in life may nineteen, ninety her trial, was scheduled to begin, but she ends up fleeing the country with a friend named MIKE Wilson that is only trouble either armies fleeing. Country with someone who's on trial for murder, and he was our facing charges for consumers. Seated distribute forty six pounds of cocaine. I guess
First, they get to Canada, but the police lose her trail at that point. So there's International man hunt she's free for what ten months She's able to evade police, but she doesn't stay put in Canada. They catch up to MIKE Wilson. First, they found him in a hotel room in Canada at the Delta in Vancouver, they said, where's joy and he said she left me she Natalie dump, M bed. She took most the money that they had with them, so, according to MIKE, she had thought hundred and forty thousand dollars with her, and he had one hundred dollars. Left him. High and dry now correspond. And says I was playing to turn myself in by you guys found me first, try to get a little sympathy there. I think he was. I mean
He also goes on to say that he was in love with joy, but you know when she left him. I was it. Now joy is going from Canada to Mexico back to the union, it states back to Mexico. and then she leaves the cardinal altogether. Heads over to Europe? Yes, Still, Germany and France and she uses a fake name. Elizabeth Sharp now she has help because Joad Packer is helping her from afar. She ends up getting an apartment, but two weeks before she can move into that apartment, a french inspector knocked on our door. and it's because they want to talk about an accident she had had in a rental car. She felt like it. He had stuck around the police would have looked at her DE her passport saw that it was fake and taken her into custody, so she just
I did on the side of a road, but it's rental car in her name for her fake name with, address, so it doesn't take for them to tracker down now there. the international warrant for her arrest. They figured out but of course, you saying, oh no. This is a big mistake, but they have something that will dispute that they have fingerprints from joy, Davis, Ailer and once they compare her fingerprint to the print that they had no doubt they have the right person. So it's in March nineteen, eighty one when detectives in America they get that call that they ve been waiting on picture this
a summer evening outside a warm relaxing atmosphere to match and shared with friends. Brighten up your nights with Tiki brand bite, fighter, elegy string lights, a first of its kind product, every pelles mosquitoes, while beautifying the backyard. Each strand provides up to three hundred and thirty square feet of proven mosquito, repellent see for your favorite outdoor space. Warm toned, weatherproof Bob set in inviting mood. It's a simple hassle freeway to enjoy your backyard without the use of yard treatments or messy bug. Sprays turned on ambiance and turn off mosquitoes with Tiki brand Bite fighter, Elliot Eastern Lights, based on studies showing reduction in mosquitoes versus control. Efficacy affected by whether distance from repellent pods and other factors available exclusively at Tiki brand dad come so joy, obviously not happy to be caught, and for she can be transferred she's put inside a french prison where she
hidden a razor blade in her clothing and she attempted suicide. But this wasn't successful This could get her more charges for evading arrest now in order to get her from ants to the United States, the. U S. Authorities have to make a deal because France and recognise the death penalty. They will not act right, somebody knowing that they could be put to death, so they have to remove the death penalty aspect of the case of the sentence in action, to get her sent back to the United States. So the United States gets joy back. She goes on trial in August of nineteen. Ninety four by this time, she's forty five years old, the prosecution just in they have a pretty good case. Do they not. They have confessions they ever good time line. They have the motives they have her fleeing
hundred there's so much here that it looks like guilty all day long. I think the hardest part of this case. Is explaining it all to a jury. And getting them to understand it and understand her involvement right because it deals with herself. Then you have Bell Garland have the auto mechanically at the other guy. There are different people involved in it: but they're, all working beneath joy, joy, who it seemed like after she left Larry? She started treating these other guys pretty badly? While I came back to bite her because both Jody occur, and MIKE Wilson testified for the prosecution, oh yeah, why? Wouldn't they now what fucking joy, do here in the situation and obviously this looks really bad she's pleading not guilty here, but what can they do to try and spare her from
ass their plane damage control, as they always do they introduce testimony to show that Larry was abusive and having affairs on her to get the jury. sympathise with her situation. They show Larry had taken away. all of her money once the operation happened leaving her and her son Chris pretty much out in the cold and they try to paint sure that Roseanne was a threat to joys livelihood because of this, so They're trying to say that she had to kill Rosen she interpreted all this as Roseanne Fault, because she was- to be homeless with her son because of her. I think there and why this doesn't work is because she hires people to murder, arrival in are you you can't
this guy is the evil abuser in this and that and then say, and that I she killed his girlfriend the timeline of it she was murdered after a lot of this had already gone down then lie there is life had an attempt Well, after that, her livelihood had had been taken from her, so this is, venture now, not necessity. The jury deliberated for all of two hours. August eighteen, nineteen. Eighty four joy was guilty of capital murder. She got a sentence of from prison wit the possibility your parole. This is surprising. You know the prosecutors, the police. They were In this case thinking she deserves the death penalty, all that to be taken off the table, but now she could be freed at some point and she had already fled the country before what's stopping her to flee to another country wench.
on parole. She makes parole at some point absolutely this case blown up in the media and la doublespeak did Dallas or the devilish woman from Dallas is what the french press labelled joy, ass, obviously They were not happy with some of these outcomes. So that's where the case rested but since then, just in one of the standing questions was was Carol giving them. It should send police department. The whole truth. Bats spected early on that she was really there because of the reward that reward was twenty five thousand dollars and she didn't get it. She had also hope to get put in witness protection which state feel the need to do either right now she didn't she a clear and present danger for her life. She didn't exist. Actually give them
information that lead to join a rest. If so, Betty in German your France had said hey, there's joy and that led to rest, tat persons more prone to get twenty five thousand dollars but Carol she was. Pivotal in the case, but I think she was giving only enough information to point them in the right direction, while per acting herself and convoluting. The entire situation with weird lie, and made a people Carol. Dave a Carol. Garland did, Sir, a short amount of time in prison? She later divorced bill, Garland Jody Packard, MIKE Wilson because of their testimony. They got light sentences Jody Packer serve time in prison MIKE Wilson served fifteen years and actually appeal
that conviction and was released in ninety ninety three bill. Garland plead guilty and got thirty years now. Eighty hopper, the killer was put to death on March. Eight two thousand five lethal injection in his final words were, made a lot of mistakes in my life, the things I did and so many lives. I can't take it back. It was an atrocity. I am sorry, your forgiveness. I know I am not worthy of it. He then told his parents, he loved them and thank them. where is joy at Justin? Well, she got her most recent parole review December Seventeen denied her next Ro Review is December twenty when he too so that be next year.
Denial reason was the record indicates the instant offence has elements of brutality, violence, assaultive behalf viewer or conscious selection of victims, vulnerability indicating a conscious. Disregard for the lives, safety or property of others such that the offender poses a continuing threat to public safety. I personally think they could have shorten this up. I sang the offender poses a continuing threat to public safety. She literally planned to murders, that's two first degree murders, hiring people, to do her dirty work If she were to be let out whose her next target Larry and Peter both out there. Anyone That's turned on her. That might be free by the time she gets out well. She'll probably live the rest of sentence out in prison subscribe on app
podcast Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering app to listen, ad free
don't miss the new limited series on embassy the thing about PAM she's, a friend until the end, when a straightforward murder, Case takes a series of chilling, unexpected twists and turns it expires. One woman's, manipulative and diabolical scheme, starring tutor Academy Award winner, Renee Zellweger, Judy Greer in Josh Demo, riveting story is based on one of the most compelling true crime, sagas ever told on the iconic newsmagazine Dateline catch new episodes. thing about pair Tuesdays on Embassy
Transcript generated on 2022-03-16.