The What are you doing tonight to an horizon amity advancements. Recently I joined rubbia on her ninety night podcast to talk about the route. Twenty nine stalker. If you haven't

now united, pretty interesting she where's stories that are inspired by real crimes and then lately she's been having pot. Asters such as myself on twitter about those crimes, I'm on the route, twenty nine stalker episode. My name- is on their erin. I don't get a lot of time to sit down and read a book moyes on the go? but I love reading. So the solution is audible, audible offers an incredible selection of audio books across every genre. Best sellers new releases celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers catch crime and there too, as an audible member, you can choose one title a month, leading the latest best sellers and new releases. One of my favorites is: connections, uncovering the real causes of depression and unexpected solutions. Only

bon audible, let audible help. You discover new ways to laugh and be inspired or be entertained. New members contrived for free for thirty days does audible dot com, slash gaeta, BP or text gdp to five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot, com, slash gdp or text gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred to try audible free for thirty days, audible, calm, slash, Gaeta, BP, take a moment. in a word from our new sponsor price line, do you have a group chat where you continuously talk about summer giveaways, but never they go anywhere well summers. Finally, here it's time to get out of the office or your house and get a change of scenery with price line you can save up to sixty percent on your favor hotels plus, find amazing deals on car rentals, an flights, and when you save money you can explore more. That means more beautiful views and experiences and more poolside fun doesn't matter where you travel zones or out of the office. I always use

price signed to find the lowest rates out there and you should do have price line. Every trip is a big deal so. When you ready to book your next summer, adventure visit price lined up com for the best deals that are we get more out of it. No, sometimes I read something a little heavy before we start in that kind of slow. My room a bit, so what did you read tonight that might throw off ira are tone? Well, anyone that remembers or doesn't remember we covered the case of chemicals, can sue who it the time when a crime was committed. His name was frederick freely. and he was what eight hundred miles away or something six hundred miles whatever was he was he was in the upper most part of michigan a crime in a lower part of michigan was committed as short little summary the price

Peter essentially said that he was this ninja assassin guy, but they went on to say that the victim was shop with a shotgun and its It's a case that will have your head spinning wheel, wonder where, the evidence, whereas the proof alot of the people of cover this case. You can hear the frustration and their voices as they're, trying to explain this story because it makes no sense, and in a just world I would argue without a proper case, brought against somebody. They should not be convicted in in essentially just their entire lives bars as the sentence it's disgusting, but when somebody is wrongfully convicted when the court systems do fail sometime we have a fail safe. Which is a governor or some politicians who is able to grant clemency. Someone back can overrule what the court's dead right. Yes in michigan did this even one better, because they have the conviction, integrity unit.

Already been freeing people from prison. Who upon the review it shown that they shouldn't be behind bars. Despite what the court's said, despite what they found, so what happened in michigan this sir this week? Well, so immigrants case was being reviewed by the conviction, integrity unit and this overseen by Dana nestle. She is, the attorney general in Michigan, There was a lot of hope because I mean you're talking about even former attorneys and judges and politicians. been on television side. In this, is no light thing. So it was this idea that the conviction tat greedy and at once they got a whole. This case really reviewed it. They would see that he convicted. Essentially with no evidence. In fact, they didn't even back up their theory with any proof. How did he get from the upper part of michigan down to them or part of michigan and

as many hours is supposedly, they say he did in italy it can make that work as if he chartered a plain, does the guy, with not a lot of money at the time, chartering a plane, and then they show that he chartered a plain effect. They had a lot of witnesses saying no. I was hanging out with him. I twenty witnesses that were hanging out with him. At the time of the the murderer, one of the reasons he had so many witnesses because he spent some of that day at you know he wasn't martial arts, that's where they get. Ninja assassin part right, but were now talking about it because attorney general Dana nestle has defied everyone that camera djinns case has been tossed in terms of, are they going Have you any longer now she said they were viewed it and they are going to leave it be, and the governor, the state I can't really speak for the governor, but I get the feeling that the governor has never been interested intelligence case and retirement wretched whittemore so because

of that decision. There is a lot of activity because, on one hand, you have paula imagine that they're married they. They feel, like they ve, been knocked down pretty hard. Okay, this was unexpected because for anyone that knows the facts of the case, you think a convict integrity unit would have said the concerns here, but instead their backing up the court. So now they're asking people to go to debate, p, w dot, michigan dot, gov, slash Whittemore and share your opinion. There is a link there and let them know please do so. Think for television can sue he's just turned fifty nine. of may twenty third, and he has no current hopes of being released and, if you have any doubt please listen to our episode or please do your own research dig as deep as you want you know I implore you to. I encourage you to you: don't have to

take my word for it not take chestnuts. Wherefore, please take time and look into this, damn Andy Levin from michigan snipe district, send out a message to everyone and he said, as long time advocates for social justice. We believe that we must do more for damaging, can sue and all wrongfully impressed and individuals across the globe in Kansas case available options for relief must be pursued. The cordial as for relief based on action, innocence and article five sections a of the michelin constitution confers upon governor the power to grant reprieves commutations and pardons after convictions for all offences except cases of impeachment. We pray that those with the power or to grant relief conduct full review and grant relief to MR can sue what it tell me earlier, just when we are talking about this, you said if there not willing to do something for damage in because I want to go court. Essentially

they're not willing to intervene, if they don't want to argue with the courts in this case than I never want to see them intervene ever on anything if politics, if, politicians and the court systems need not overlap, then don't overlap, don't be a credit because ass the one thing I won't suffers a hypocrite what's gonna happen? Here? Is they're gonna not touch timmins case because reasons, but meanwhile they're going to go through and they're going to take away a lot of other people's rights for a lot of other reasons that will overlap into the court systems, because that's just how politicians were you know I'm point, the governor wool allow some people to be out of prison right. We know that Bins happens with governors, a happens with the president. They just say: ok, all of these people were letting them out. Why and they do the same for damage in or at least go through them. evidence. It's all there and in no act look at how he was convicted through

evidence at all, so there isn't gonna be any new evidence. Complete lack of evidence is hard. that the problem is. Is it to get out to actually have evidence that, though review? Traditionally it was you needed new evidence was their dna tested now, oh no, but this case they brought with another witness with a story, and they said, will it's basically the same story that some other people have said so calling her a liar there to say What's different now that nothing's new here you know I've, I've made comments on this show just in some people, think I'm getting political. I am merely stating that when I've in any case. It is this blatantly obvious in a job this. I dont know why others can't see it. This isn't, something like a feeling. This is because I heard a rumour that he was innocent now this is I've review the fact said the case where

gonna retweet, something like a car dashing, because somebody said: hey bring justice for somebody. We actually at the evidence we actually look at this and when we see something there, is so wrong, is so blatantly unjust. We have to speak up that's the problem with this case, so this is political. I guess would hope that somehow that gretchen whitman and Dana so get the message that we respectfully disagree with what's happened so far, but we would for them to take another. Look at this, because we believe that damaging can sue, pollack and soon all the others that are behind They they need that support, because so far it feels like there's just no hope. so an case is one I'm, I'm not torn on the justice aspect, but I will say that this attitude or the I get double jeopardy

The law or the legal statute that blocks the of you multiple times for the same crime I something, I do believe and I think that our system can abuse its citizens. I believe that our system can unlawful, They go after somebody and done jeopardy is a protection against that use of power, so tat Cases It's a hard one for me too, My head around, but I think it an important one for the people to hear so what what are we talking about tonight? Tonight, britain, about the murder of julie, who is a single mother from billingham, ignore in england on november sixteen nineteen, eighty nine bellingham a town in the borough of stockton on, tease and stuff

an anti is basically, you know this borough, that is on the north bank of the river tease now julie, had a three year old son named cabin, and the sun was from her ex husband, Andrew her and were an and Charlie Ming end there? pretty close family they stood for each other and they looked out for each other. Julie and her ex husband had recently divorced, just before the murder that that's a good sign because was child custody battle? What was going on there, but Julie will end up going missing so no november, fifty Julie was working. She is delivering pizzas and while she was out working her son then, what usually spend the evening with his grandparents

now. What do we know about her timeline? Just because, on november, sixteenth julie's dropped off at her home by her boss at a bow? one thirty in the morning and it could be her by could be a co worker, but either way she got a ride. Home nash, it's a ride home and by sea, and thirty a m her mother, the mixture that she was awake issues was to picked up cabin, so they could go to court. They had some more scheduled hearings for the legal separation between her and Andrew, through their divorce they're. Trying to figure out custody of cabin all the things that are typical during a divorce, but there's answer so an show up a julie's house a little while later and she's, not answering so she gets a hold of Gary Julie's brother, and they forced their way into the house, because they know something's wrong They know that julie

should have answered. The phone julie has obligations that morning julius to be a court and an lake pretty much any mother on the planet. when something is amiss and when she was inside of julie's place, it's it s because it was too clean to tidy this wasn't like legally. Didn't keep her house this way curtains were closed, so they start looking around while they find that least keys, are missing and said julie's not there. Well, this mean right. Missing and her mother knows she wouldn't have just upton. Laughed Now again, this is because the time, a cell phone. So it's her to get a hold of somebody if they're not at home, regardless her mom knows something's up and she's gonna call the police and die. Report her daughter missing. Yet, first, an

asking the police. If there have been any reported traffic accidents in maybe That's why she is not responding right, but there weren't any, So eventually, Anne and Charlie went to the police and said, and we want to we're actually missing, but they came back with the classic she probably just left home and wanted to start a new life or something They also started suggesting that maybe she had a one I'd stand and she at some strangers home and knew this wasn't true, because this was a devoted mother? She wouldn't just leave her son behind now without any information like this and probably calling her work and their saying. Well, we dropped her off at one thirty, but the police, don't seem to be interested in questioning her coworkers or even her ex husband there. Just probably after something else that there's net wrong here: you're jumping the gun. Well,

for five days of no julie and her mother is being very persistent and tying the police like she's. Not showing up should not showing up to work. Nothing and that's, when the police start taking a little bit more seriously They will launch a search for julie and her home thing seems to be missing and they claim they search the house thoroughly, but the detectives and the police are saying they couldn't guarantee that nothing happened to her daughter, but they assured her that nothing happened at the house yeah. They felt an ant that Julia was still alive just somewhere else and three months after the play said, search shoes apartment they, but the keys to Andrew julie's acts so there? he and their son could move back in the and Andrew got into the home there,

a terrible, odor and called up an for advice. Now this is ex husband to again, if trying to figure this case out, this guy would be a suspect and her disappearance. This guy would absolutely be a person of interest if she's been murdered. He ox into the house, immediately smell something and then calls julie's mom. I think that's a good sign mice. She's going to worry, because a few here. There's a terrible odor in place and you know someone's missing your first stop. Probably is oh now. What, if it's my daughter so she's moving around and she gets it the bathroom she's, sniffing around and she notices that a bath panel moved when her knee touched it. She said the oder got stronger at that point. so she started moving the panel and the

next thing. You know she's dead, running down the stairs screaming andrew she's under the bath she's under the bath now. This isn't a place you could. said gently end up. You're not gonna Been fall in end up under the bath you're, not going you be crawling in there to get something storage, her body was haste under there to be concealed. So I just want anyone to think that this was an accident. This was absolutely foul play in whoever was involved, hid. Her body within the bathroom Julie was wrapped in a blanket underneath the bat so Andrew had gone to the bathroom and golf even more the panel and then he then ran into the street and called the police and now that there is a body of course.

The police are saying: ok, we're gonna get to the bottom of this, but an screaming at them and yelling. Told you she was in there, he wouldn't listen. It tells you she Try telling them don't don't just walk away from this house. She's got to be here, there's something in this house. That will lead you to my daughter's disappearance, even if it wasn't Even if she didn't know it was her body, she knew something I have a feeling just in that. She very much believe that her daughter had been at all time, because I think she put a lot of weight into julie being dropped off at the place at one thirty in the morning, and she really didn't believe she'd ever left after that and its entry. Saying that the police didn't sir. the place for days yet didn't detect any and a smell weren't, to fight the body which it was here. behind a panel. You know it's not like you,

open up a closet door and there's you know it wasn't something like that. It would be something where you would have to really do a thorough search and they didn't but I'm just surprised that they didn't detect a smell up to five day. and they obviously never went back to the house after that. Otherwise would have definitely smelled decay or something to that effect. But, being that now almost three months has passed. Her body is seriously decayed and really hard for them to do an autopsy and find out her cause death. It's obvious! she's been mutilated, it's obvious she's been murdered, she's disarray ogden wrapped up in a blanket, but time has passed now. They ve lost evidence now word from our sponsor better help

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There is another name that comes up of someone that lived very close to Julie and whom she had dated Obviously his name was Billy Dunlop, so the police request a warrant to search his home and they see his home. Just then what did they find while they do a thorough search this time, and they actually pull up some of his floorboards and cover julie's housekeeper. They know it key dunlop sphere, your prince or on her key, Why would he have her keys that big evidence right there? The only thing that was verifiable taken from the crime scene. So it's february thirteenth that he will be arrested for julie's murder. They will formally charge him but he won't go to trial until may. so may ninety ninety one belly dunlop let's go to trial,

This is a very straightforward trial, but Apparently, despite having this evidence against him, the jury, wasn't convinced. at least not all of them that dunlop what? guilty of julie, hogs murder, so they couldn't reach a verdict. and so Dunlop was released it's a hard. One is an errand, because all we have is the fact that is in possession of her keys. They dont have dna at this point. and they dont have his finger prints. Crime scene didn't evidence of him at the crime scene All they have is here, possession of her keys for the most part and is not just that because of the condition of julie's body. It's really. Difficult for them to say exactly what happened to her so a second trial in accra. Or of ninety ninety one and again the jury

just couldn't make up their minds because, like you said there but without saying well, they ve got the key business they don't have really anything else other than the two had dated previously and he was in the area. He was right next door, essentially the judge, will end up clearing him because they ve tried him twice so the job image, says not guilty and He is now a free man can Keep trying someone over and over again it be right. It wouldn't be just right. I agree with that on its foundation. If, if you cried somebody and either a jury or a judge clear, them or acquits them then, You have to leave them alone now, so is a free. Man and this is law that was established, Eight hundred years before duly hog was murdered. whilst century it was

a confrontation between saint thomas beckett and king Henry the second. This is how our back on rules and laws, were being sat and being ass. Did him the legal system- also where we got our fifth amendment and our american constitution. no one can be subject for the same offence to be twice put in. city of life or lamb, so We had a suspect he was acquitted. and now please, don't have any other person to go after four julie's murder but Julie's mom she's not happy with. That knows he actually sued the police for negligence. There was a settlement in eighteen, ninety three where She received twenty thousand pounds and I think that's fair, because one, the police didn't find

a body in a house. You know- and they never went back multiple times to investigate if they just They searched wants to me, but I don't know they might have gone in and wandered around a few times, but they didn't take her seriously. That was the problem, her body wasn't discovered for months, so case it goes. old right because they don't have any where to go with it. They exhausted there. Aids and and specially think about when they bring charges against someone they take them to trial that beans their best guess on who perpetrated the crime that failed But in nineteen ninety seven in august, there's an update, justin. Well, this lop guys quite a character for quite a piece of work. My maybe, as a better turn Dunlop attacked his former girlfriend who pregnant donna Williams, and her current by

Oh sean, fair weather, now he attacked sean with a baseball, bat and stab donna with a toasting fork that her long, though, because of this he called was charged and then sentenced given seven years for the attack, but sometimes happens. He gets by bars and he starts talking. He's gotta establish how bad ass. He is in the prison system and dont said, may, because I've murdered before its exact what he does so he says I murdered my former girlfriend julie hog, and I got away with it. He did just tell one person now you know in this is where it's interesting, that this decision happen more often really, because if you can be tried again for the same offence. Why, didn't he bragging right, he got away with it as this thing as it is? Why aren't more,

people doing this. I dont know, but he goes on an confess to a prison officer, the present actor. He writes a letter to his girl friend, and he says now drunk that night. I got into a fight I assault a guy and he goes and after that, when I was pretty well up he says he went over to Julie's house. Apparently says she made fun of his injuries basis? Saying oh, who were pure worked your butt and and lop said, he went, berserk and strangled julie with his bare hands yeah. I think what it's men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will murder them. That might not be. the exact quote, but this is literally what happened that night in march of ninety, eight the police were to question Dunlop about this, and they a man to the Stockton police station in a tape statement, Dunlop described

police exactly what happened that what happened that night, he said he two julie's house he was drunk. He said she they killed him for being beaten up and then he said he strangled her and then hit her body under the bath. Obviously so that maybe she wouldn't be discovered. Thank god stupid criminals and I'm glad he's confessing Glad he's officially giving us statement to police because even though there is Such thing is double jeopardy. me and you are- and I think we know that the government of law enforcement They can find a way they can find charges to hit you up with. If they try me the real question here and palm review there. sure they have anything to bring against this man. So an is speaking with the government.

home secretary jack straw and she, a part of a movement to get the law changed because the real question, we understand why there's double jeopardy. Bitch be so hard fast that if you have proof that someone did murder. Somebody that you can't do anything about it at that point, this The struggle! This is the point If contention, Kay You overthrow eight hundred years of precedent because of such an Regis situation such as this. The law commission asked Anne after she wrote to them if they could use her letter as evidence. Showed the government. They said that her was the most compelling case in the country. In other words, it had there attention and they wanted to help her, they were moved the situation that some be so brazen as tools bragging that they got away with murder am sure they didn't like that feeling either

they're gonna see what they can do about the rules of double jeopardy, if there is any way to find an exception. But It's gonna take some time. while, in the meantime dunlop still bragging about his murder of Julie, part of this movement to get the double jeopardy law adjusted They had an speak to the house of lords and she worked on a speech, but when she, their teachers from the heart she didn't use her speech and Oh the law, commission did a report and They recommended that for murder, genocide or reckless killing the rule against double check, they should be subject to an exception where new evidence is discovered after acquittal. This is important. because if we just say where we can double jeopardy more because of this guy, then that's not fair because its

for a reason. This thought got there because of all these people that came before, who maybe this some could abuse. We know how difficult it is for a person to fight them. Vraiment right. If you have this state coming at, you bet keep bring you to trial. But can you really For that now, I mean you'll lose everything trying to battle them once you are found guilty, your screwed so. If they can keep coming after you and getting not guilt verdicts until they finally get a guilty verdict. That's not fair that just can't be the norm and as human beings figured that out a hundred years ago. Its essentially erosion, but as we know the gun and if they can get you on one thing now, they'll find other thing centre in April, Two thousand dunlop still brag about murdering his ex girlfriend, and they will come Adam for perch,

three for lying in his first to murder trials, which again you're claiming innocence during trial. You're on the record, your under oath, you perjured yourself and he will be sentenced to six years for perjury yeah. That's air nice, that they can get him on something and keep him behind bars. But that's not very satisfying, though, is it for you family absolutely, but it does give them some reprieve? Knowing that he's not out there, who you know he's not out there and he can't come after them, it's just or time he's gonna spend behind bars, so The positive, but it's a bitter sweet when tick to get a word from our sponsor cove cove? Believe Is everyone deserves to feel secure cured shouldn't just before the rich and famous that's why they make home security systems that are see to install affordable canned reliable cove arrive.

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because this is the whole point of changing. The law is to go after this guy. But on the same token, around making it retroactive well the government, the court systems can now go after a whole litany of people end up is the power, so this they have to do is this out very carefully and me, if two thousand and three the double jeopardy law was changed and in november of that year doubled a pretty is officially scrapped, as the criminal justice bill receives royal assent, so as it was. It comes to an end, but its chair, aged where, if there's new compelling evidence, a suspect can retried for the same offence. No matter what the defining was before, and the director of public prosecutions and two thousand five can mcdonald said he didn't expect than a handful of cases to be affected by this he was,

I heard that the police had already advise the public that it would be reopening julie, hogs case as well as of others. So, Looking at the time they were looking at about five murder cases where people that we know weren't found guilty were we're looking at being retried again and of all the cases. I'm sure five isn't a lot, but still scary proposition, to say, oh yeah, you were found not guilty before and maybe you were innocent and now you have this fear of the government can come after me again, but as well, seeing in this case the an julie, hogs case. Absolutely necessary to justice for her the only way you're going to be able to go after this man otherwise he's getting away with murder its staff well for me to think

it is totally ok, I mean I want Julie, they get justice but throwing out all of double jeopardy to get theirs, is a scary thought You know, no matter how we talk about this, it's a big I've changed that they can't quite call it double jeopardy anymore. Right. then this would have happened without an mean this was, determination to seek justice for julie. It's amazing because I'm sure she's not the only family member to feel like shit no hope of finding justice but pino whenever she did she say the law- that's pretty amazing, so. There was a hearing before it or chief justice and for their high court judges at the royal courts of justice in two thousand six, they made a significant ruling. They said that Dunlop acquittal should be quiet, she and that a new murder trial should take place, and I think that Dunlop. He sees the writing on the wall.

He knows that he he's been, brow hanging about this. For years, How is he gonna fight this so here and up admitting to murdering Julie, knots That makes it a lot easier for the justice system, september eleventh that year he entered a formal plea of guilty. two murdering julie, this was handed down on october. Sixth, he would get a life sentence. I would serve a minimum of seventeen years ago, for every year jail, Murder had gone avenged put it and the detective dave duffy. reporters history has been made. Today but more importantly, justice finally achieve for mister and missus Ming on october, twenty fifth of teeth. in seven and me

I was awarded an m b e for her services to the criminal justice system, the mb he is a member of the order of the british empire. It's the third highest ranking order of the british empire aware and said he an honor, but I felt quite sad because of the reason I got it losing Julie and I couldn't lose sight of that. So, while this was a great honor, you know he's very aware of why she got it. She had to change the law to achieve just four julie, so she travel the london with her huh charlie and they can at the award from the prince of wales, who said it's a splendid thing, you did and you re deserve the award of all people that have been given these awards. You know we're the likes of like John lennon or edge Shirin retainers sure, whatever she did something that changed The course of history she changed the landscape of the legal system

whether you agree with what she did or not. I think she's accomplish something greater than any entertainer out there. Justin Twenty seventeen billy Dunlop was Facing more charges right here, accused of raping two girls in the nineteen eighties. in those cases weren't brought against him until after he was convicted of julie's murder, but he ended up and cleared of those crimes. I'm sure there was a statute of limitations. I'm sure that so much time had passed tat. It was hard to bring opera charges against him for something like that, so he was cleared on July to the twenty eighteen. The meetings get some bad news. They Discover that, because belly was sentenced in two thousand six and was given a minimum sentence of seventeen years in prison, that means could be released in twenty twenty three, but the parole

word said that Dunlop had. some time on remand, and so they decided to deduct it. They were given a letter from the probation service that later, the process for done. Lops possible, transferred open prison. and said he wouldn't become eligible for release until twenty twenty one, but it seems like time moves so quickly, justin and they were able to get him convicted. Now there haven't you, look at the possibility of him beings he again and so, Charles Julie's father said I put into words, really the ripple effect this has had on myself my family, it's just heartbreaking, so the following year on june, Wealth of twenty nineteen dunlop had application to be moved to an from prison and that's the step towards being released, but they rejected it

I think they were really taking into consideration what he had done and the feelings of the mink family so would have to wait to apply again for another year. So let's talk more about how this law affected people I just can be said that the double jeopardy law had changed. What else did it effect? Well it allowed pro peters to go back and open some cases and they able to go back to case from the early ninetys one is Stephen lawrence was murdered and very hateful ray this attack, he was killed by a gang south east london, It was a very high profile case in all of modern british history. The investigation initially charged five suspects, but they were not convicted

Ivan's mother. She helped and drew his mother campaign to change this double jeopardy law, and there was a public inquiry in ninety ninety nine going into this murder case so Two of the original five suspects were. Back on trial with substantial new evidence becoming available. Entire, that, was a when four Stephen more and send his surviving family matters were found guilty and given minimum terms of fifteen years plus and fourteen years, plus that one of the cases that were affected by this law- and I guess- comes down to a question of do you feel like, and this is to just in this is to everybody listening. Do you feel like changing the double jeopardy law? Was there

I move because that's a significant change to say you can not be charged again for the same offence, if found not guilty accept in cases where there is new evidence I understand why they did it. I understand the idea the premise of why they did it, especially in these cases that are strangely egregious. You know that this person did it after the fact there's no doubt in anyone's mind. But as we know any time the government is able to take some of its power back. it will use it. and so I hope that this doesn't-

start the quorum quote slippery slope where they go after anyone and everyone who they thought. I well. We got a loss on that case, but we could try again. I hope that they are very clear Four guess some timid about there. So this this new law This new ability that the process now have I can where some people wouldn't like this change. But you know when we look at the case. We know that a mother will be moved by emotion, Toby move. Moved by her love, her daughter, but when you re look at what they changed. They need to have significant new evidence and in the case If Julie hogg, they had this man who was given freedom by the court and basically said you can never be tried again and he that distort bragging. It's like he eta. You can't ever

jail me for this, so I'm gonna start bragging about it and he told everybody I mean he told enough people that there was no way. He could just say other waking it up this isn't a jailhouse snitch situation of one person saying: oh, I heard tell me this- that's why he to confess he had to admit to it. So I feel like in the and this was the right move, because the key stone, always get it right and it's too bad. It doesn't work in other situations, too, were someone's convicted it seems like they can't be heard again, but in this case justice was achieved for julie hog and for the main family, and I think that tells you why it was so important change the law, because, without that they would just lost their daughter and the press. who did it could just keep bragging about it. And shoving at their faces sang. I got away with it that wouldn't be just

as long as they use it sparingly. I think it's ok I have my reservations if this- where to happened here in the states never miss an episode of generation. Why subscribe to us on apple podcast, spotify, cast box or reverie listening right now, also be sure to follow us on social media. Our tik tok is at jen. Wiper God are instagram is at generation. Why podcast joint wondering, plus in the wondering, app to listen ad free The

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