« The Generation Why Podcast

Karen Gregory - 437

2021-09-12

May 23, 1984. Gulfport, Florida. Karen Gregory had just moved in with her boyfriend, David Mackey, days before he was to leave on a business trip to Rhode Island. While he was away, someone entered their home and raped and murdered Karen. Police detectives came up with three separate suspects during their investigation and did their best to go through the evidence and question them to find Karen's killer. Was it her friend? Her boyfriend? Or the neighbor? Join us as we discuss a case involving great police work and a killer in plain sight.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join wondering class in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering I didn't do it just in are you doing here ok today. Any updates that we have yet ass. Some of you might recall that I interviewed in author so years ago named lowest Duncan and cheese
most well now, because whenever stories was turned into a movie, I know it. it last summer, but she appeared on our part. Ram because she wanted to talk about the murder of her daughter, Caitlin or cat, who, Eighteen years old was striving home from a friends house when it's you she had been randomly shot and killed, but it turns out said this new development is true that a man and has taken credit for her murder and apparently has confessed to several murders, and several rapes his name is Paul Apodaca. He was convicted some. I may go for raping a four general family member can I see ninety five and Apparently he says that he murdered women because he hated them. So, while Lois is not around for this, well she sorely missed. I hope there her family, as now seeing the end to at least
mystery of this story and bacon continue to sell, the life of their wonderful daughter, take months. Get a word from her sponsor, audible: twenty when he too is about celebrating our new found self awareness and making positive change. Audible lets you all your audio entertainment in one hour, you always find the best of what you love or something new to discover, audits, has it all: on a beautiful selection of audio books, tons of binge worthy podcast, an exclusive originals, all able to download or stream I'm currently listening. Marcus, Aurelius Meditations helps me sleep at night and gives me things to chew on during the day to make finding your perfect two thousand and twenty two listen even easier. New members can try audible free for thirty days audible, dot com, Slash Gaeta, BP or Text Gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot com, slashed cheetah, BP or Text Gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred. Let's talk about hair color
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as I was researching and reading about it. I went in different directions, but it something that I definitely think police in the investigation did the right things and I know it takes a lot for me to say that, but they a dedicated to the investigation and never let up and Ultimately, it came out with a conviction so without what are we talking about tonight tonight, we're talking about the May twenty third nineteen, eighty four murder of caring, Gregory and her home. Now She just started a new job and she had a livin boyfriend She had a lot of things going for a right. She, a plant, to Jamaica until she met David Mackey, he was working as a therapist.
Or Vietnam veterans and The people who knew Karen attracted to David because of his intelligence hand after they met they began to getting pretty much immediately. She had come M Albanie New York, but this story that were covering takes place and Gulf Port Florida back in nineteen. Eighty four careless, thirty six and at that point she d it had been dating for about a year and a half and the reason why they lived together was because, while David was saying you're spending so much time visiting me. What are you move in that relationships, go right. Its convenience right spending all this time together. Why don't you just move in? She was working as a graphic designer for company engulf port and so she was feeling like Florida her home this neighbour,
They lived in, was water view park and apparently it felt like a very safe neighbourhood, and one of the reasons is it because they had a neighborhood watch? People would keep an eye in an ear out for their neighbors, so twenty second I take for David is after Rhode Island for work hastened. We therefore about a week Karen says by two m and She had only live with David for a few days at this point. And on the morning of May twenty fourth nineteen, eighty four David calls home. Yes, of course, I'm several times because Karen's not answering, he has some members for several for France and he starts calling them, but they are saying They haven't heard from her, so he calls her workplace. She hadn't been to work She hasn't even called in so now David he's freaking out because he did not expect this
so we figure. Something must be wrong, so we call his neighbor. Her name is Amy Bresler and says: will you check on care I'll wait on the phone just go check? Our plea So she said: ok I'll, go there. She knocked on the door, but no one answered so she peaks into the window. And what did you see well she ends up seeing Karen lying on the floor and war. Here's to be blood. All around her now who run back home to the phone and tells David something terrible has happened and she hangs and caused the police. Goes again his nineteen. Eighty four, it's all landline, so you can't do freeway collar whenever she nine one, one at around eight thirty nine, a m the police arrived. They found broken glass around The doors at the front entrance it looked like somebody's head had hit, it was said,
for said had shattered the glass and scented fly. Into the walkway. It appeared that key, and was trying to escape, but the attacker pushed her through the window and then dragged her back through the police entered the I looked around and found signs of a prolonged struggle body was lying in a large pool blood, mostly under head shed multiple. Stab wounds around her neck. She was parked the unclothed, but she is wearing a black teddy top over white t shirt. It was unsnapped so they assume someone had sexually assaulted, her the police thought the lingerie on her, was strange because it was again placed on top of her white shirt. So They assume that this is not a typical murder. This
something else likely. They had put this on her during the attack, there is blood Karen sped, window sill on the drapes and as best as the investigators could put together. They believe that tax started in the bedroom and then what to the living room. Karen fought for her life tried to get outside, but judging by the condition of the window and the door knob, which was covered in blood, and hair. They figured that whoever it attacked her had grabbed her by the hair, like you said, put it through the window and they dragged her back in and then assaulted and killed her. So you would think neighbors had you have heard something, but they also didn't find any signs of forest century which means Karen, perhaps but the person inside or they had a key
there is no murder weapon founded this crime scene investigators on his case, where detectives, Larry, Tossie bill, brink worth and Lieutenant Frank Hansen tossing brink worth they were the ones to go to crime scene that day and start the investigation looked over the house. They saw the Karen had dark, carpeted floors, and that's why you know, when you say it it appeared, She was in a pool of blood. It was kind of hard to tell just because of the coloration carpet and they looked at her feet. Because they had seen some footprints in blood didn't see blood on the bottoms of her feet, so they that we have our first clue. We have our first. Chance to maybe connect a killer to a name David's calling for typically trying to find out, what's happened to care and he gets hold of the detectives
they're telling him her instead and then one give him any more information than that because well. pulled saying the husband did it, even though he just a boyfriend. Where is he? he's in Rhode, island, but Does he have a solid alibi? Could, have done this. They fines nothing else in the house that is another led for them right there was a bloody handprint on Karen's thigh and so they know that the killer wasn't wearing shoes, your socks, but also wasn't wearing he gloves, so this tells them. This may have been a crime of opportunity, headed that it wasn't pre planned. while inspecting the House detective Tarsi found newspaper from profit, Rhode Island dated may twenty third, so
This makes them believe that David came back to town and must have forgotten this paper which them away. This is literally Smoking Gun, but damn this really puts him, possibly in the House the time or at the time Karen was murdered. I in this as calling he's calling neighbor and her friend, saying something's wrong, goats, on her they fight your body I'm in Rhode Island. I got a perfect alibi, but there is a new. paper from Rhode Island. There come on man, so the police They got a major lead here, but there are taken their time and thinking got if they find this and they have this guy calling all these people and and sayings please check on and I can't get a hold of her. It's like he setting up an alibi for himself absolutely and so the play
you're thinking, yeah right, so they go and talk to me the next door, neighbor asking details. She told them that the reason why she went over and checked on Karen was because David called and asked her to because he was in Rhode Island at a conference here heard from current so check out there go on to ask a bunch of neighbors. They heard her anything day or the night of sir? of them, have something interesting to report. They heard screams. around one fifteen a m on May twenty? Third, that's pretty scary writer, yes, and we, No, why no one put this way could be fear or Maybe they just felt like it wasn't their business, which is I
because this is supposed to be a neighborhood that participates in neighbourhood watch so right there, the irony but the women that they talk too, who are saying why? a screen, but I didn't do anything they were all saying they felt guilty. They all felt bad especially knowing what happened Karen. They describe blood, curdling scream that stops. Suddenly I dont know what I would have done here not. I would hope that if I heard something like that. I would have called the police any. Maybe now at this point in my life I would, but I don't know, where I was doing a true crime podcast. Maybe I would have just left, go and shrugged off, they keep these door to door interviews too about the two block: radius around parents home hands. Detective too He wants to speak to George Louis he's a volunteer fire fighter the captain of an
had watched and just happens to be one of his friends. He lives I think across ST essentially so text Tarsi, says I should see what he has to say and he's like. Well, I was working in my garage breaking my car, seem to the radio and he said he did hear us green. But it was faint but he's the captain. neighbor had watched, so he walks into the street to see if he can see what's going on. But he didn't see or hear anything else. So he went back to working on his car, so they said was there anything else that you can remember from around that time that you should about that might help us and George said well in on the evening of, twenty. Third, there is the guy that drove up to parents house and knocked at the door? And then it look like you left a note on her car before driving off by the police found this note its head came by. I have something for you
but there is no sign of life Peter how about you just in, but You know if you have a note left on a victim's car like that, and it said I have something: were you, but there was no sign of life. I dont know how I'm supposed to feel about that, but it just hit me. Typically, someone would say came by men to drop something off. Nobody was home Peter You know that would be the normal way to say that at this is very ominous, so there These also spoke with Roy Gregory, Karen's brother and asked him What do you know about David and he said now there was a bit of conflict. in their relationship, because there the time we're Karen Head kind of it, to sit in another guy care was really anti Jamaica and really interrogate music, and so he felt like Karen was trying to figure out what kind of life she wanted she gave. To Jamaica and really embrace.
reggae seen there or she could whose David and living Gulf Port- and he said they even meaning she and david- had broken up for a brief time but she ended up getting together with them and moving in he said he honestly like there is still some tension there, but that they were stating that they were a couple Karen Gregory was to be married in Albany New York, David made the trip there for the funeral he was very curious about where this investigation was going. I'm sure part of because he wants Karen Gregory's murderer caught right or he just wants to know where it's going, because maybe he's a suspect, the police. Not too happy to give him any information. So they say hey. We just want to know when you're gonna be back. As we have more questions for you. He said
back in a couple weeks in the meantime, the investigators, her tracking down this Peter guy who this note on the car, because that's another lead and is full just as they are on David. Well, Peters the one that left the the note the day off, so they can check that out to- and they end up king him down to These Karen's remains. They need someone to identify her and her old room is the one who showed up to identifier and she brought with her a man named Peter Crumble. That just happened. be the same guy that left a note on the car, so the police took him in for questioning Peter told the police, by Karen's house around seven thirty on May twenty. Third, in the evening he had invited me for dinner, and I was and I give her back some records I borrowed, but
she never answer the door and he didn't see any broke glass. Now, this isn't weird, because Peter says he was home by one a m, and this attack happened after one we know because of the reports of the scream, not law, after one though, and opened the window of time is pretty tight there. It is time I'll give you that, so the detectives are looking over and they notice a large scratch on Peters Hand, and as soon as Peter notice them noticing it, he quickly put his hand under the table and said a dog had scratched him, but police air there not sure they buy there. So they ask. Can we take fingerprints and footprints from you and he agreed, but he's now assessing And this is the eighty, so it's not like taken check his foe.
Records you know from a cell phone and where he's pinging, so all they have is him saying, I got home by one, but then there is screwed we heard at one fifteen I mean there's no way to confirm what Peter was that one fifteen. So he admitted he was at the house. Doesn't look good, several days after this carrots autopsy results come in Karen stabbed over twenty times her throat with slit revealed that her killer had tortured and raped her a day and a half before her body was found and that fit then, with the one fifteen a m time that was reported by neighbours, two and a half weeks later David Mackey finally returns home and goes to talk to the police. he tells them. Then he Karen here
to be very upset about the whole ordeal, but the Tec Tarsi told him he knew that they were fighting he tells David. You know. I know, that there was problems and David comes back with everything was fine. She just moved in. We starting this relationship in cohabiting with each other, then active inform them that they found the newspaper and David says that purchased it a day before he left you see the weather forecast in Rhode Island. He bought it at a cost, what new stand so that possible possible, who know said the detectives at this point or like did you kill Karen and that's when David got extremely frustrated because they suspected him of her and they weren't. Looking for the real killer so he said he didn't have anything to do with their death and that here
suspicious of Peter crumble? Peter had an interest and Karen and David. Actually wasn't aware that Karen, invited him over for dinner that night. So this is sort of some lies or omissions of what Karen's been up to that David's. Unaware of very suspicious, because he saying there was something wrong, but then they find out that, while he's away Peter who care might be interested in was invited over for dinner. David ended up getting very frustrated that they suspected him. Instead of looking for her real killer, yeah the detectives or not giving they're, looking for more leads and technically they have to suffer acts they have David and Peter. It
David's house, so they recruit him to help them. Look through the house, ass, David. If anything was missing and David looked around and the only thing he really could find was a white teddy peace lingerie that wasn't where it was supposed to be. Karen had recently purchased it after she moved in. It was somewhat other special purchase. So this stuck out to David. I just be clear: it's just missing: they don't know where it is so If they can focus on a suspect and discover it in there, possession, somehow that will connect them to the cry take moment. the word from our sponsor sleep number, many of us, we're getting back to the office or getting back to school and establishing a consistent bedtime in weight. Tom routine is key. Better sleep helps
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Karen this pornographic now that he was writing. So Police are thinking what's up this drying. What's up with this Stephen guy, we need to bring him in for questioning. Now they have a third aspect and when they bring fischler in for questioning, he immediately defensive very shore with them. He said Karen and I didn't even know each other- that well And how do you know why she has that drawing so when he's told about what they learned about his advances and is pornography and everything else. He gave the angry and he said I'll, take a polygraph and it's weird while he's taking the polygraph he blurted out Kay. I did it bodies
he did it out our frustration any recanted his confession. So it's weird it's like IE stops the polygraph and says I did it and then towards the end, just recounts that the greater the polygraph her- he passes by this is not that easy, because Fischler as I am not going to give you a footprint sample, so detective Tarsi since the drawing that they found in Karen's house off for testing they wanna see. If this is blood and there trying to figure out where to go with fish there here, because this is the third suspect and man he setting off all kinds of flags here, but this smear ends up being ketchup and they clear Fischler as the suspect. The guy is a total creep at work. Blurted out, ok, I did it in the middle of a polygraph, but there
I cut him loose. I don't know if that's really good police work or really bad police work, but will keep on going right yeah. I can't say it could be because he passed his polygraph, but you know is this where he passed his pie, but when he says I did it that's why Pask passed he was telling the truth, now I don't know I just I feel like I feel like most police would have kept focusing on him, but we'll keep going so David had said that he gave a presentation at a conference at nine, a m on May twenty third, which was about eight. hours after Karen was murdered. so they wanted to see if it was possible for him to give presentation after killing Karen- and so he had to have gone to Rhode, island back to his home
murder Karen and go back and give this presentation and detective toss. He took a flight therein back. He confirmed that it was possible. So then he got a subpoena for David's credit card information and that's research, the David only paid for one flight. Now, that is with the credit card. He asked looked into this claim by David that he had purchased this Rhode Island paper from a Gulf port. Newsstand stand here, even better than that he found Kashmir that sold that paper to David, and this paper came two days early, which is why David was able to get it for that day. So they brought in David, had em take a polygraph which he agreed to and he asked me you can blurred out. I did it in the middle of polygraph and still pass over. You know
this is amazing, because, if they're willing to let fish there go based on his polygraph and other clearing David after his polygraph and confirming a couple. Things of course makes you wonder, as this investigation going. Well, because they're losing their suspects in their at getting any closer to the killer. It seems next up is Peter I think they're just shifting focus from one person to the next one. There lie of communication and investigation. Qana comes to a dead end, so Peters back what's he doing, interview? Peter said he saw broken glass, but he said: didn't bother him at the time so p story is changed now from I didn't see anything to I did see broken glass exactly they ask him straight out. Did you kill Karen and he acts like he was shocked that they were even asking that question and he said I was home that night there not so sure about that, and I think part of it is because they had three sons.
Ex knocked two of em off. I've got this one guy left. I don't think they're ready it just clear him so easily, but now they had taken David's, Prince and Peters prints and they have a pretty good footprint that they're ready to matched by. The problem is while it's pretty good, it's a bit of a smear so. it's taking a lot longer to analyze and match footprints. Then it normally would months pass and they I don't have a lot to go on. They don't have enough evidence to charge any of these men and again are kind of focused more on Peter now than even David, just because he, claims. He was at the house that day and changed his story, but they're trying put together a b.
a euro analysis profile of the killer, Nanda fear or into profiling. This is pretty cool said that he was a disturbed person who had violent sexual fantasies and probably a serial killer. Now we know that this person put lingerie on their victim during or after the murder. And might stolen lingerie as a keepsake As you know, memento of this crime, so that's all they have yeah I'm not sold on this profiling stuff, it's odd that they would say, It might be the work of a serial killer, because whoever did this I'm not wearing shooter socks, not wearing gloves, so it's like they did this crime and they weren't prepare it. It just doesn't seem like the work of a serial killer to me in descent. of thousand eight hundred one of detective.
Aussies fellow officers, was at a fair party for a city manager. They were so King with a woman who said she lived a few blocks away from Karen. is interesting because I said literally used to block radius, this woman lived a block over from you, know their limit The reason is because in their minds. They had it that there was a faint scream, they thought well outside the two blocs, especially those people wouldn't have heard it, so we won't even bother, but this woman who live We blocks away heard a long sustained wailing. Around one a m on the twenty third. Her name Marie Meserve E. She was a bus driver and she said I heard that scream very well and
doesn't make sense because they had talked to the captain of the neighborhood watch. George Louis, who had said it was a faint scream, and he was, and his garage open garage across the street from parents home. So now their wondering, if maybe George more information may be with. new information they have and with George having been right across the street. They can get more information and figure. Something out here, so they bring George Louis back in for questioning on marks seven nineteen, eighty five, but he tells him the same thing. I heard a faint scream, so I went out to invest gay and I didn't see or hear anything but wait actually. This time he says I saw a tall man with red hair standing. A tree in the front yard of parents home wave, like why wouldn't have thought of that at the time I realized. We can remember Gang
differently or come up with more details later, but knows about this murder. He was asked funny thing happened He heard a scream now he's remembering that there was an actual person there they show emissaries of pictures of different prowlers. He can't identify anyone and it's weird because Detective Tarsi recalls that George was very quick to call the police when anything happened in that neighbourhood So this is his friend and it just doesn't make sense that he's not called the same, he's not told them about this man. On the first interview, and then there like Did this guy look like they say? Well, this guy. Now he was in the dark. It was seventy five yards away. So it's really weird and towards goes on to say that he was right. leaving phone calls late at night, so friend Tarsi says you know, I'm gonna look
do this for you and he sets up a trap on this found to monitor these calls, but George said oh yeah, they suddenly stopped. So after four days, go by. They just remove the trap. Just as it makes sense because again Peter in his story, and now George has changed his story. You're, right, I think, chain. from I didn't see broken glass too, I did see broken glass and then other woman, three blocks a saying, screamers, probably close, the one as opposed you George saying well, I heard a scream or heard a scream and I think there was a guy there on paper, Peters. Discrepancies look worse than Georgia's, but the detective his friends with George he's asking questions, and he is sensing be George, knows more than he should or maybe joy
knows more than he's letting on the detectives think we need to talk to more people in the neighborhood, and as thereby round talk him more people, so the women start to tell them stories. There are reports that there's a night prowler someone who's looking in windows, but one woman identified her prowler and said it was George Louis. The neighbourhood watch. Man back a captain of the neighborhood watch, so this is kind of an alarming bit of information and so is really prowling, or is he just keeping an eye on things because maybe heard something? Maybe he saw something so he's just taken closer look, if you're his friend, maybe you given benefit of the doubt yeah, Toby nineteen. Eighty five, one of Karen's best friends, was standing in line at the bank when she felt some
staring at her now. We all have that little. spidey sense of somebody, looking at me, so she turned around and there was where's Louis and she felt like is the look in his face. She's, like he's the guy he's, the one that murdered Karen and she just had trusted him from the first moment she saw him across the street. She goes you say that George followed her out of the bank, all the way back to her collar campus, but he just turn and different way at the last minute. So Tarsi is having to take all of this in the hall. negative stories about his friend George. In January of nineteen eighty six toss He is getting pretty frustrated with trying to get this footprint. matched to any suspect or even to get a good enough picture to you
for further analysis and because there are limited, he I'd, send it to the FBI lab in Washington, perhaps they have the resources to make this footprint usable. This is like a dog bone. He is not giving up. He is gone through technically for suspects. Now What focusing on the evidence when he's getting the result, he wants he since it off to the FBI, for further analysis. I like this guy, so George has brought in for yet another interview on February, seven, nineteen, eighty six and this time question about his possible prowling activities and so they ask him about when he was look. In a neighbours window and he said well, I was only inspecting her home because It's part of my neighborhood watch duties, so they got him back the polygraph that they apply,
They like to use and Tarsi asked him. Are you a prowler or a stalker? and your Louis denied it. But now, as part of the questioning George starts remembering another detail, he said I saw Karen at seven thirty p m on the twenty second she was washing dishes, and so he's asked what about that scream. and he said well, he didn't leave his property that night, so he was doubt to the road, but you still on his property and he went by to his own garage. So then he starts talking about this Red headed man this is a man. He saw seventy five yards away in the dark said he was red, headed this polygraph. He doesn't pass it and so Detective Tarsi, who is his friend said I need You tell me the truth. George responds with
I saw a red headed man, but the real I didn't talk about him before and the rest I've given you very few details is because he threatened me that night and day as he knew where I lived in August George spread across the street. He said I worried about my baby and my wife This man knew where I lived and if I had said something you know maybe he comes. Buying kills my family he's best friends. what the police detective somebody driving them on the night of the murder I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest sir, we have never heard, because if I have a police detective in my pocket, somebody threatens me. Oh it's on the. I got the hope these force behind me, this guy's an idiot. They work on a police sketch, and No one in the community recognises the man that that is sketch.
Based on this wording and the detector Hosty is thinking about this and he comes up with a new idea, which is let's look at older pictures of George. And sure enough when he starts looking over older pictures, Our version of George now he's starting to see a guy. That fits the description which is pretty crazy. George Louis is not six foot or six. What for It is the first range he gave them he's under six. What I think five, ten or something. But apart from that this sketch this description, that's more like himself than any one else, I'm without words you're giving a description of yourself to the police? Oh my god, you speak on what you know right. This is where things really take a turn:
and detectives, were looking into Georgia's background he's now. A really that's aspect is he not and they speak to his first wife and she said that he wants choked her door argument and that he hadn't erotic obsession with lingerie men like lingerie, but an Iraq obsession. This is a tie in that the police were looking for and the profile or said he's gonna obsessions he's gonna have fixation, on these kinds of things. They do. Made a tion there's a whole thing in Georgia's background about, how he was into Swingers clubs and orgy. And things like that, He only married his second wife because she had become pregnant, people that knew him were saying. Oh yeah, the heat and all this stuff. He he only Mary
this woman because she was pregnant and he was asked the interesting Karen as well. When she moved into the neighbourhood, he was check in her out he'd, even told somebody that he was injured and Karen, and wanted to be in an orgy with her. So now, how difficult is it just in for the detect here too picture. George Louis is the one who put that teddy on care when he was assaulting her and murdering her and then took that White Teddy, when it was done with them back home. Now they have something to look for. Definitely will I did they come long because a woman came forward and said, George having an affair with me and he gave me a present. A white Teddy and she gave it to the police, it was because he said it was too big for her, but when they check it out
or is it looks like it would fit Karen, so we ve got from her boyfriend to Peter to a co worker to the captain of the neighborhood watch that lived across the street. I will say This is diligence right here and the fact at the investigators actually buddies with George normally. He would just get a pass. I think, but in this case. I really really want. I that that takes due diligence and excellent active work to get this far and they are taking their time, because there are three more visa happen before they make a move that surrender view is with Georgia's wife Glenda and when they to view her. She said she scream and she to go look for her husband
but he wasn't around. The garage was open but you didn't see. George Bush a few minutes later he came in from the garage she said was not covered in blood, but now that's what she says, so they bring in George for a fourth interview, this was our march. Seventh Marcel might and eighty six and he has their story, I think we're listening to his stories, but let's hear it elevator. He said he went up the currants window because he heard the screen, and he said that he saw her lying on the floor covered in blood. He then broke into the house to help her. and saw their her throat with slit. He said he left after that boast afraid to say anything because the man in the yard threatened him now. This is where the detectives completely stopped because they knew
There was no way he could have known. Their throat was slit unless He was the one this letter throughout and it had to do with them she was like you couldn't have just seen that it was just too much blood and gorgeous it takes an hour, I see two really identify what had happened to her. That's right, so corset attacked, as are thinking Georgia's right across the street. He sees Karen, take David to the airport and then comes back without him, and now knows that she's vulnerable, so bringing Glenda Louis one more time sheet I'll, send that George did shower. immediately after coming into the house. Now she defending her husband but said that he was gone for just a few minutes. He was actually gone for about twenty minutes at the minimum. That night, my
11th, one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, the FBI gets back to the detectives. They confirm that the footprint that was found matches George Lewis. They found thirty points of comparison between that footprint and just footprint, think that's enough. I mean I thought we had enough evidence against him a little while ago, but I am glad we have some hard evidence here on this. As you know, we get ass. How come you're so hard on detectives? Well again, we dont cover. lotta cases that are perfect like this one. I am shocked, an odd because at any point they could drilled enter any of these other guys use other suspects specially the guys I did it in the middle of polygraph. Similarly, we got a false confession at him and they could ran with that. Has they got up? We ve seen them take five six p.
in cases and arrest them all, even if they don't even all know each other, but this is This is exactly the kind of case where you look at and say why this is so. your patience and intelligence and this is how an investigation should go. They should follow the evidence and not get caught up in wages yelled. He did it. I get the cuffs. yeah. They all have anybody else, then imagine less everything every name on it, is crossed off and there's a Go George Louis! You want a cat the live taping of generation. Why now your chance, in partnership with embassy? our listeners, can attend an exclusive screening of the new law. It series the thing about pan plus recording of the podcast serious stars to Time Academy Award winner or Naser Judy, Greer and Josh Demo and is based on the riveting story of one of them a compelling true crime, sagas ever told on Dateline, it's about a straightforward murder case.
that takes a series of chilling, unexpected twists and turns exposing one woman's, manipulative and diabolical scheme come join us as we watch a sneak peak of the thing about PAM and unpack the details of this unbelievable case March, seven at the noise house, in LOS Angeles, go to the thing about PAM screening, dot com to RSVP for the event that the thing about PAM screening, dot, com marsh fifteen. Ninety six detectives arrest, George Lou, and charging with first degree, murder and sexual battery they arise m from work, is where Detective Tarsi excludes himself from point on. He has the other detectives Cohen, pick George up from work and take amended, the police station ask him to run through his story. One more time and with these other detect Speaking with George and not Tarsi George
said, he didn't wanna talk anymore. He wanted to end the interview but after he was arrested. whose articles came out that, and was killed by the neighbourhood watch. Captain It was someone that the community trusted, but sick when he was a rapist and a murderer as much as this might be true is a little dismayed to hear about these articles coming out before trial has begun because if Somehow someway George wasn't guilty well. This is slander and public opinion can work against somebody or even corrupt case, has a lot of people. They believed in George, and they couldn't believe that he could have done something like this and they all thought that he was wrongfully arrested and charged yeah. You hear the term building up good credit to
Louis has built up a lot of good credit and his department, his co workers they all started donating their vacation time to him. After his ran out by you. jail just so can continue getting paid, so his wife in little baby daughter would be looked after his trial started in late spring of nineteen. Eighty seven now course, the prosecutor is going to present their me argument that George New David was the town and that was why heat his opportunity broke into the house. With a knife. and Karen got into education with her Karen fought to escape nets He pushed her head through the windows. She screamed, then George proceeded to rape and stabbed her and then ultimately Let her throat he therein
that a partial motive was that George was racist and motivated to kill Karen, because she was with David David was a black man, Georgia's defence? their main argument was saying that footprint didn't belonged to him and they gave all of his good character rough, says all his coworkers his family. What not and they really hammered home that this bloody footprint wasn't is bad. Executions. Gonna bring up all of his changes in his statements and stories he said he heard of screamin, walk outside and looked around and see anything to. He literally went into the house and then was accosted by a red haired man who happens to look like younger version of him and before time, so yeah
This isn't going well for George, not only that but there were neighbors three four blocks away. They heard the scream loud and clear. Now they didn't do thing about it, but they heard loud and clear. They all gave about the same time, estimate for it, and here Lord saying it was very faint, he was in an open garage right across the street. I think that more than anything sank his ship, because if you think about the defence team here their work On this footprint, saying look, it was smeared, how do they say? That's his you now say, really try to drive that they don't think that this footprint belongs to them. the man. Would you have the FBI saying that's a match. We have thirty comparison points here showing its his ouch throw the footprint out there is multiple women who talked about his behaviour and one of them produce the white lingerie that price,
Billy was the same white laundry that was missing from the murder scene. I mean, I don't think the footprint who the pivotal piece of evidence that they needed although it was a solid piece of evidence, the jury deliberative for two days. What did they find and on June fourteen nineteen, eighty seven think anyone's gonna be shocked by this. They found him guilty of first degree, murder and sexual battery. Georgia's I've Glinda she screamed and freak out, had to be escorted out of the courtroom, George and are being sentenced to twenty five years to life, with no chance of pearl, so a hard twenty five years. For he could even see the light of day. I don't have a problem with this sir verdict I think that it was a solid investigation. I think that they vetted
all the other suspects, which sometimes you know, we see them, get tunnel vision on one person and not pursue others, but here was systematically going through and Why wasn't even a solid suspect in the beginning, but he kept talking in digging his own grave as we call it. So I think they did a good job but of course, joy he's going to appeal this verdict because they do that, while his appeal was decided on August. Seventeen. Ninety ninety eight- and this was a possible Brady violation because one of his defence attorneys head spoken with a former member of the law enforcement investigative team- and they had said you know the state may have, held favourable evidence from you and I may I looked into this in the best way to describe it- is the evidence wasn't.
we held it just wasn't highlighted for the defense team, and so when the judge This evidence they decide that yeah that that could have been handled better, but even if this information reached the ears of the jury. It would not have changed their minds. It wouldn't have affected their decision. I mean it's one to completely omit or hide evidence. It's another thing to just hand over all the evidence and not say oh page, three chapter five you I find something that is kind of important. It's up to the debate. Steam to go through all of the documentation and be ready for trial. You would hope that their work b as the cereal relationship between prosecution and defence. But that said I we what the judges, Sir,
finding here, because it's it's not going to change the outcome. It was me based on the footprint the laundry and his, ever changing statements. That's why I got him found guilty. And they don't want to approve a new trial if the outcome has no chance of changing, because it'll be a waste the court's time, one of the things that offence really, down here with. The appeal was care Gregory's Journal or diary hand she had written about her different interests, love interests will put at that, way, so the defense was saying war. We wish we had had more time to spend with this to figure out if there some involved that Maybe she was nervous of or was bought her something, but you know how looking at over, they didn't find anything. The
I was saying on one hand, but we can't talk about this. The purse information- and here you can look through and see if there's someone you want focus on anyway the headless. It said it's her You're saying: oh, I like this person, I went here at this person or dispersing Kay over tonight or whatever there was none. Hang in there that had any kind of a trigger word bike. he may be nerve is. He said something dark to me anything like that. It was just in innocent diary. So I think the court goods see this for what it was. You know that events had little baby arc, but it just didn't write the level of it Brady violation they would have had to of, taken this and spawning and to date murdered her or We have to find another suspect and
personally, I think David could not have killed her. I realise that the investigators were like, I think you could have gotten from Rhode, Island to Florida in that, in time, but could you have at that point, it's like David, would have had to pay for a flight in cash. I fly in the middle of the night. I mean it just doesn't doesnt really Jai for me, so is talking about a whole new suspect now does the police vetted, the other ones, so I dont think there they could have done much. What this besides pointed the finger back, a David which we had already are excluded him from being a suspect evidence against. George is really insurmountable. I think again faint scream changing stories about whether he left his yard or not, and whether there was someone in the yard whether they look like
Hunger version of himself just taller and him admit finally, that he went into the home his secret lover, coming forward with a white teddy. That just happened to match the one that was missing from the house to me. she's just insurmountable in the court, had really no choice, but to say no, the appeal is denied because it would be a waste. The court's time, George Louis died in prison on June twenty knife, fourteen at age. Fifty two. Obviously he had peeled this case several times they were rejected. He was held it. Mocha, correctional institution and Daytona Beach. They ve never really his cause of death. As far as I know, subscribe on Apple pie cast Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering app to listen, ad free
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-03.