October 22, 2018. Salt Lake City, UT. University of Utah student Lauren McCluskey began seeking help from authorities after she discovered that her controlling boyfriend had been lying about his identity and had a criminal past. It's the events that happened after she sought help that will have you questioning everything. Join us as we discuss one of the most infuriating cases you'll ever hear about.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From Wondery How you doing tonight Aaron doing good Justin. How are you I am doing great most of our listeners know how this podcast came about, but I'm going to
tell a little story, real quick. So those of you that don't know this might be news to you, those of you that now sorry bear with it. I actually got called in for you for jury duty and open my eyes to how the system actually works and like you are, and you'd watched, you know order or any tv show and we think We have expectations of how things should go right. You would think yes I have a problem, you you call the police and the police come and they resolve it. If somebody's murdered it gets investigated and then they put the guy way- and you know if it goes to trial hey. You know the truth comes out all the things are our expectation. and of how the system works, and it's that I don't no illusion of safety, if you will. It's the illusion that other people share your concerns
they're on your side that, if the title job is detective- and you have case for them that they will care. Now we should say: there are those out there. There are plenty of detectives out there that when they the case across their desk, they devote their entire life to it and we ve seen this or we ve seen it when we watch twenty twenty dateline we've seen these cases covered. We can see the passion in the eyes of these detectives, as they talk about time timeline and how they stuck with To the very end, we know what happens, but Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen. With no fees or minimums banking with capital? One is the easiest decision in history of decisions even easier, then deciding to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast with no. Overdraft fees. Is it in a decision that banking reimagined, what's in your wallet terms, apply.
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calm, Slash G, W P or text Gaeta BP, two five hundred five hundred. So with that What are we talking about tonight or tonight, we're talking about the murder of Lauren Mccluskey, Who was a student at the University of Utah this case happened in October of two thousand eighteen. I he went into this case. Erin trying to be very Thank you very unbiased with the entire it's just going over the facts and the evidence try to keep that tone, but I'm sure our listeners as we paint this picture and story will stand how hard it is. To not get upset?
about the story in this case. Let's talk a bit about Lauren Jennifer Mccluskey she was twenty one: She was originally from California, her parents, Matt and Jill Mccluskey had moved from Berkeley, California to Pullman Washington where, Lauren, was just eighteen months old because they have been offered tenure positions at Washington, State University. Joe, was an economics. Professor Matt was a physics professor. They also had a son named Ryan and a cat named victory. Things about Lauren she and entered her first Junior Olympic Association Track Meet when she was eight and set records in high jump, long jump and four hundred meter run and- at nine was told that she qualify for nationals so, especially athletically, gifted here and headset, multiple records in track and field and
high school she continued with. Her afflicts, as well as for education in factories at the Pullman high record for the one hundred meter hurdles, she was much into animals. She loved them She volunteered at the Whitman County, humane society, one the jobs that she had was to help socialize cats so that they will be more adoptable. I find this adorable because I'm a cat person and there are definitely cats that are just their wild. But I can see how she really put herself and her energy into helping animals and helping people. there's nothing like uniting a pet with a person it's a it's pretty magical at times and she had her. One cats, fuzzy and victory after high school she completed her Pullman High School senior project at the Wsu's Center for animal wellbeing and she, I volunteered for the special Olympics and the Y M C graduate with honors, and so she,
onto the University of Utah most people that we talk about and on most other true crime podcast. You always have great things to say they all walked in and lit up a room. They were all great people. But she really was anything thing in her life was to give to others. We try to make others feel good and Lauren was actually pretty shy, she wasn't the most outgoing person but she was highly intelligent. and very direct, but just because is your direct person or just because you an analytical person, does mean that You know how to stand up for yourself. If somebody's trying to take advantage of you, you said that she spent a lot of time, making other people feel good about themselves. She was and turn at Cortland Place Retirement community
during that time, and actually her grandparents that there- and during that I am she designing, completed a picture directory they had stories about the people and so, as part of that she had interviewed all the residents and talked with them and put together this book that everyone got a copy of, and so they look through it and see the other people. if they're find out more about them, everybody loved it, because what did it do it made? Everyone feel good and it made them feel more cohesive as a community So that's just an example, but it is true that she did have that ability But at this time Lauren had met a guy what do we know about this guy at the time Lauren is going out with her roommate Alex and into a bar called the London Bell. It's kind of swanky I by gas that has red velvet. Couches
cool music a dance floor over it's drinks and Alex agreed to go with her. She, you just wanted to go out and cut loose a little bit while they were in line to get in the bouncer, the doorman an interest in her. They talked a little bit and once inside the bar. All the tables were full so they wandered around looking for a place to sit as why don't gotta clubs anymore errand, just loud and there's, you know it's a very inconvenient thing, but the Bouncer, came over and started taking them to open seats like helping them out Lorne it was like. That's cool disguise, nice and she thought. He was kind of good. Looking too, Lorne is five foot eight and the bouncer was very tall very built and Lorne said hey I'm going to give this guy my number something she doesn't do
because she's a little shy should not that outgoing, so she grabbed a napkin. wrote down her number and She said we're going to give this to him on her way out and they leave once they start talking He says that his name is Sean Fields and that he's in his mid twenties and things moved rather quick. she said that Sean wanted to hang out with her and they started going out on dates, but he would instruct her to wear jeans and a t shirt, and he gave her permission invite friends to the bar so right off the bat. It's not like Oh we're getting along and everything's great right off the bat this guy sang yeah you can come out, but you have to wear this and he would always do things at her place. He would
never invite her back to his place. So it's kind of weird but she's, not seeing the red flags here, he hung out at her place on the campus, and he had told her tat. He was only a bouncer part time and that it just doing that to pay for his His associates degree in computer science at SALT Lake community college, so she thinks pay. Putting himself through school he's sky, but constantly hanging out at her place and then telling her what to do. But still excited about him and she even called her mother to talk about Sean and her first date with him. Given her roses, cheats told her mother that Sean was twenty eight, which for Jill possibly too old, but Lauren was really happy with him. At this point Jill. I guess
probably noticed that and thought. Well, I don't want to burst her bubble. Let's just see what happens and the more she hung out with him and the more she hold told her friends about him, the more her friends were thinking what's going on here, because if he texted her, she would have to text back immediately, otherwise it would upset him if was driving. She had to pull over to the side of the road? To reply to him? and he would always be asking her. Where are you who are you with real possessive stuff tell her. You can't go downtown with your friends tonight. There's going. the other men there. there was a situation where her phone died because she didn't have it plugged in He called her enraged, accusing her of cheating that's not appropriate at any point in time, but this to be happening so quickly
is to me a huge red flag, and it's Billy overstepping on his part. Whenever he would hang out with her, he would tell her she needs to buy pepper spray and or buy a gun too to fend off advances of men or weirdos. He would talk about. And all the time to the point where even. Alex and some of her friends for, like the sky is kind of weird he's kind of scary. Even must have been a conversation. They had a number of times, Lauren and Alex by it. I think people often say well, the positives outweigh the negatives, but I think also people don't always know all of the negatives sometime when you're in a relationship? You don't really see everything objectively, talk about overstepping bounds. You have pair, since you have friends who are somehow
I'm concerned about saying the wrong thing, because you don't wanna drive someone even closer to someone, you think is dangerous or a bad fit, and so I think many people are concerned about those things. It's just If you have someone who's being, possessive, very controlling that a situation they can take advantage of and it seems like he was doing that and it's to the point where Alex gets a hold of a couple of friends and tells them about the situation about. Is Sean Guys actions and they go. Do the university housing staff to tell them about this guy because I'm assuming she lives on campus and that means if you're, not a student there, You were not really supposed to be there, so
I think the friends were trying to take it off of Laurens Hands and say well we're going to get the campus security involved, the housing authority involved. You know they're going to be. the bad guys that tell him he's got to leave as opposed to us starting a confrontation with them. It wasn't even a month in and it felt like, he just lived there, and this is the campus they started to wonder: doesn't he have his own place, or maybe he doesn't it's now October and Lorne is exhausted because she's having to go pick this guy up when he gets off work late bouncer shifts she's having to drive around she's having to do all this stuff for and house him and Her friends are kind of Lee pushing her to say, like maybe he's not the right one for you so, for whatever reason she decide. to google him and for
thing she finds out is his name? Isn't Sean fields, it's actually Melvin all and any is not in his mid twenties. His now a student, his action the thirty seven years old and he spent ten years in prison for rape and he's a registered sex offender and has a lengthy criminal record. I don't know how much more scary of a person you can find out, you're dating and He had actually been back to prison since then, for parole, violations that included failure to complete therapy was possessing pornography,
at one pearl hearing, the media was reporting that he had once dream of being a doctor, but his addiction to internet sexual activity had ruined his life. Now this is thrown Laurens whole life upside down, started a relationship with the sky. Of course he came off. Very charismatic and kind in the beginning became very controlling. And now she finds out that thing he said, is a lie not only is it a lie, but it's the worst kind where he is dangerous, so She doesn't know how to break things off with him, because If she didn't know these things, she would probably just send him a text and be like hey man, you're you're, coming on a little too strong, a not, into this whatever Maybe she could break it off with them, but now that she knows that the sky is Khan a felon all,
these things she's afraid she's very afraid. afraid- and he also has her car, because, while she was out of town. He borrowed it. She heads back to camp as October ninth and because she doesn't know how to go about all this. She talks to Alex Alex has been ready to help her from day. One Alex says you can break up with them. You should break up with them, but they do it somewhere public, I think, probably for safety sake, but the he's talking to Alex, and this is on the phone and she didn't know it, but Alvin was just outside her window. watching and listening to her. She hung up the phone at that time, and there was coming into our apartment and and you shouldn't be talking to your friends about our relationship. He just walks into her apartment. He doesn't
or anything cause he's so used to just being there and Lauren now search confronting them about all this lies and saying I can't do this. We need to break up. He tried to, bye again cuz. He said that rape charge That's because there was a woman at our fraternity. Party who made that whole thing up- and he said he had do a plea and I only plead guilty because I had to, but she didn't believe him. He still stayed there that night and according to Alex, Lauren had said to her that every time she tried to make him leave he force self on her and that happen? Multiple too I so so. we're all times. Lauren was raped that evening now in the morning She says she has to go to track practice, but he will, taking her car
in going to run errands for the day so Let's call that what it is, though, he's stealing the car, essentially yeah she's, trying to break up with him? She doesn't want him to have her car. She This was making up excuses. After he leaves she calls Alex to come over now later that day, She will get a text message, from a number she doesn't recognize. It's somebody. That's acting, as if they're Melvin's friend and they say why'd you break up with the guy he really loves you. She doesn't know who this is from she just assuming, but it's a weird none Soap should know what to make of it, then short time later. She gets another text, I guess from a different friend asking about her car telling her. He drop it off. As he couldn't stand to look at her. So this text is saying
Melvin Gonna drop off your car. Without you know, just drop it off, he's not gonna, see you and then more tax come in texts like go, kill yourself now She knows how Melvin talks at this point. She knows how he texts at this point and she knows that he misspells certain words. And he has all kinds of grammatical errors. And of course, all these tax. Seem as if they're coming in from Melvin. She. calls her mom tells her she's getting worried in her mouth I'm Jill will calling the campus dispatch and in coming them about it's going on with her daughter and offer to escort Lorne to go retriever car, so they do, I guess, One time they do the right thing cup of you go by, and Lauren gets more text from
Alvin and While she knows they're from Alvin, but they're claiming is dead. And that it was all her fault Others said that he'd taken his own life, and others said that he had been in a car accident and that she needed to go to the funeral. So she call the University of Utah police and told them about these texts it is now at that point she did Really believed that they weren't true, but this harassment and it also felt like threats, officer told her that without threats, anything criminal nature, there was not much that could be done, so this is officer saying these aren't threats. This is not criminal, you know what if they do. Why put off having fun, until you finally have that free time you keep hearing about. You already do enough to earn a bit of joy exactly when you want it and with best fiends you can
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promo code today at join, calibrate doc, come visit, join cholera, dot, com for availability and eligibility. Their understand that somebody has to really cross a line for the police. To get involved and Typically when it's just online threats or text messaging, they don't want to mess with it, but This is escalating quickly, October thirty Justin in something It takes a turn here, because Melvin I texted her saying and he had a compromising photograph of the two of them together and that unless she paid him one thousand dollars, he was going to publish it so now, she's nervous. It's not kind of thing that you can, while at she didn't think she could get out of it. She thought had to pay it so she's like
my reputation all the stuff that I'm trying to work so hard for this could all go down. The tubes had a venmo account and she sent in one thousand dollars, but she didn't just pay him the thousand dollar. She also then contacted the police and they. went down to give a statement and she her roommate with her Alex, I got it say something right here, Aaron sorry to cut you off She goes down to speak with these two officers who come out. They know why she's coming down, she's told them over the phone and they greet her in the lobby of the station, and at no point do they take her back to a private room or meeting room, and they were very dismissive. I have spoken to many women who are the victims of sexual assault, who are victims of blackmail just like this, and
detectives and police officers will just to them in the lobby of the police station. In front of other people, and just not even acknowledge That this is a very personal private matter that they might not want to share with others and I've heard how many of these stories you know one I We this case and heard that these detectives just talk to the lobby and were brill nonchalant about it. It doesn't. I meet all while these these happily softwares chest and all they were really doing was saying. You know you have trouble with your boyfriend? That's not really an issue for us, that's what they're saying to her they're, not impressed, and then they looked him up in the campus directory and said nice things seems, good guy, I mean he got a traffic ticket. One time that wasn't even him he's not from there. This is What happens when people don't take other people's
Concerns seriously. May why would Lauren keep going to them. Why would she have a supports that she has Alex with her and there being told your boyfriend issues aren't our problem. That's what they're being told But why would you have campus police then? What's the point they don't even know how to look somebody up correctly. Obviously our and Lauren are not happy with this interaction they had so they go on to the SALT Lake City Police Department, who then refers them back to the university police, saying that Extortion was under the university's jurisdiction. Now we established that the sky has made threats to her? as sexually assaulted her in now trying to extort money from her and is not a student but because
she is a student and these these cries, crimes committed against her happened on the campus or or on the which property the police have zero interest in looking and her case the nineteenth Lauren is even Workin CERN because no one getting back to her, so she called as these out like city police again its rewrite it back to the campus police. She does here back from it. active who says: I'm not going. Be back at work until October. Twenty third, that's four days later, you should just call back If Melvin sends you another message or attempts to lure you somewhere. So, let's stop again. Remember She's already been sexually assaulted, multiple times, there's extortion threats. Harassment, whip I dont understand, there's they're all ready crimes being committed and all of the people,
he's between the campus and the salt city, police. There, just like this- is their job, that's it it's their job she has told them everything then that weekend she something even more. She sends them screenshots tube roof that he's a criminal. Yeah. She send some screenshots of his record of his police rap sheet and doesn't she send the screen out of the incriminating photo she sends in everything, she's got as well as images that show the harassment she's been getting day after day after day now I don't know what somebody supposed to do around here to get police or security to get off their butts
I have no idea what else she could have said or done. She's done all the footwork for them. At the same time, Melvin's meeting with his parole officer, because he, actually violated his probation he on a social media or dating app, which he's not allowed to do but as the police and campus security, art report, sing any of this aren't doing. Anything with this is per officer is p, o has no idea that he's further vi relating his parole. I engaging with this woman extorting her and sexually assaulting her total disconnect. Here October, twenty, Lauren got a text this one claimed to be from the deputy chief of Campus police, asking to go to the police station, so she called the
campus police and the officer who took that call said: don't respond and Lord of course knows. This is Melvin again. What I going to do. I've already reported this as much as I can I've sent in all the evidence doing anything, so said: did you send this the police and Lauren and yes, I have- and you know just this just one more crime, impersonating a police officer. It's a serious deal. I guess she should have said that he was trying to sell Lucy cigarettes or passing bad checks. I don't know, but there interested in helping her out here. I don't think they responded to anything what else you have done. You just said it I mean you could report these other things, but they've not responded to very serious charges. It's like theirs nothing more did she in and unfortunately Justin when people who have
the power to do something. Don't do something. We know bad things can happen, so it saw three p I am on October. Twenty second Melvin will procure a gun sneak into Lauren's apartment building and wait for her, and eight twenty p M Lawrence walking home from class, and she actually on the phone with her mother speaking with her, and her mom she? is her daughter in distress, her mom what's it on speaker, phone start screaming and then the line gets goes dead in. What's happened and is Melvin, came into the lobby ambushed her grabbed her dragged her outside and shoved her in the backseat of a car drove off the camp, is and then shot her multiple times. Then Melvin
Calls another woman who he had that on a dating site and ass her to come, pick em up and they went out to dinner and then they went back to her place where Melvin took a shower and then shooting up dropping them off later. This was disturbing for Lawrence parents, because, as you Add gel had put it on speaker phone, husband, Matt, was in the other room, doing yoga. I guess, and she on speaker phone because she really just wanted him to be able. His daughter. Well, they know something bad happened, because there was, scream and so they're, trying to figure out. Why me what happened here? Matt was thinking Maybe there was a car accident once they couldn't get. hold of her. They you something really bad must have happened and, of course, there thoughts go to rubble Emmi. By that time they knew Melvin Roland was bad news.
and that Lauren was having trouble with him, and so they thought this connected to him somehow so her dad Matt picked up. Phone, dial, nine hundred and eleven Apparently, someone had picked up Laurens phone in the meantime and got on it. It was a medical student and, had found Laurens Computer and Backpack and he said Lawrence, not here her stuff. just laying here so her since know that she's been abducted, they know that she's in harm's way, they're calling nine hundred one not one wants to saying oh yeah. We know about this: the nine one. One calls very frustrating to me because they're trying to explain she just was abducted, like this just Happened, you need to put somebody on it and there claiming that they are
you know about this and not acting it's a big deal now. It's not and fifty five p m Lord coach walk, call Jill to tell her that well in the parking lot they found Laurens body in the back seat of a car I mean she was literally just abducted. They heard it, as it was happening on the phone and it's Not even two hours later there being told that your daughter's dead, the parents. This was we need. find her. Now authorities. It was Okay, so we know she was abducted. Let us work on this. but the woman that had picked Roland up taken him out. that night. She read
cake knives TIM on the news, and so she called the police, while the SALT Lake City police, acted on her tip and well to find Melvin Rowland. After midnight, now they were kind of trailing him and he went into Trinity a church, but the police entered Melvin Rowland used his gun on himself so It really seemed like maybe they were going to get him take him into see, but it didn't work out just adds to the frustration of the whole thing. This guy, was on parole, multiple reports, to. Have somebody look into him? Have somebody investigate him? Have somebody do? something about the crimes he's currently committing while on parole a gun got that was friend. It's an a its name Nate Vogel, who
another female to go by the gun straw. Man purchase. She I this guy Sky Gun, who then turned around and gave it to Melvin, looking at this thinking. At what point could this have been prevented at what point. Could somebody have stepped in and done anything but even the guy that array for this weapon purchase. Even he doesn't face any charges. What do they do with him? Justin actually end up charging him and giving him a sentence, but then giving him time served. That's not we are to me that I I yeah but yeah. This is a joke. And what I'm trying to say is is at no point during any part of this case is a feel like anybody does anything to hold anybody accountable in Spain, by the story that shocked the nation, the girl from playing
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that should have been done were never done. No one asked questions no one took anyone seriously. Have Lauren and Alex going to different police officers or detectives and saying please help pass in there. and turned away because, oh it's not our jurisdiction or your boyfriend. We are our problems and this is where it ends up and you'll, have people saying. Well, we didn't have I twenty we didn't know it was going to go down this road like this. Well, if you had done your job If one person had looked this guy up and I'm sorry Lauren had already looked him up and given them all the information, they don't even have to do anything, they just had to go a rest him parole, violation. This is low hanging. Fruit are did. It was verify that the person she was claiming he was was the person she claimed was. That's it. That's A minor step now have
the violent past of Melvin, Rowland is Doug, the media pulls it up. There was an attempted rape of a team. in two thousand and there is two thousand and twelve parole hearing. He admitted raping a teenager and two other women. There was two thousand and sixteen admission that he was threatening that if an agent were to come and conduct a field visit, he might become violent every and you say or do right, Justin So anyway, at November. Second University of Utah present Ruth Walkin said there was scope. be an independent investigator to look at actions taken by, individual officers in the weeks before Mccluskey was killed, but who something that I I can understand because she had first stated that there wouldn't be a look in to individual actions and it feels like
every step of the way people draw in your feet. I don't understand this- that investigation by the end of it can Is that the the college didn't do anything wrong. How do we that's true, because no officers at the campus were held accountable right at that point, took the report. I guess, but if that all their doing then why even have a warm body doing that job? Just the students log into a website and file the report themselves. If it's just gonna go into a trash, can I mean seriously this is being investigated and journalists are looking into it. They pulling a lot of interesting information and police reports. You remember when she sent that
officer at the University of Utah, all the photos and screenshots and everything including the explicit photo of herself that she was Extorted for soft officer Miguel Darras. he saved that photo to his some are foam and then witten it off to his coworker, he's literally re victimizing. The victim here he's Literally taking the photo the evidence of this crime being committed against somebody and Now he has it any showing it off to his co workers, but oh wrong, doing here, Aaron, just not everybody was doing what they were supposed to. Everyone was on the up and up like you, want to about this a little bit because as pie, of the push
to discover more information about this case, the SALT Lake City Tribune, they said they had two independent people verify that may go. There are still that ok, but his attorney came out and said that when his phone was asked for, invest, The gators were able to take his phone because he gave it willingly and downloaded all the contents of the phone and were unable to find any explicit images of Lauren Mccluskey? Now you don't have I have it on your phone necessarily it can also just put up on your email and his attorney did it met that he you his personal cell phone as his work. As well and that the photos explicit Photos of Lauren were in his email, so how Can you be so sure that he never showed anyone any explicit do I love Lauren using his phone, I ask you: it takes all.
two seconds to delete said photos before you handed over to law enforcement. unless they had a forensic. You know data recovery, team, scanning his phone and doing a recovery on it. They didn't look that close, but his lawyers trying to say now on? No, we didn't find anything. There's no evidence of that which is so typical, of most lawyers when they're you going after somebody or defending somebody there you know they'll say well, there's no evidence, so you can't say that Wheatley leaving out well. He had the photo and he showed it to other people. It's been end of independently verified, but because you didn't find the photo on his phone now now he's good at system. It's me adding he doesn't even have to delete it again if he pulls up the email I don't understand, this idea that somehow just because they didn't find it, it never existed it's frankly, salting at this point, and it is very good
that people care more about their own bots than about protecting the public point, at least in this case, when we're done. about these officers that were approached by Lauren, and by Alex the universe Have you top police chief, Dale Brophy, so of his comments, artists on the level because he's come out and said o were making improvements were doing this, that we have new rules, but Miguel DE es while he was still a member of that kind as police site, in a statement verifying the new rules. Okay, to make things better right, so the he would know how to handle domestic abuse? or other. Potentially, I concerns what have you and a week after he signed that he forgot everything he had talked to. He had learned because there was another woman who was in trouble and interviewed her with her alleged abuser right next to her and didn't look. His background at all and that
I even said I better call my probation officer and that didn't dolphin alarm Bell. He didn't even ask about it. So again, what's the? point of having someone there to protect the public. the University of Utah right if they're, not? going to do their job. What's the point I think it gave Lauren and the family of a false sense of hope, they reported this One detective said: hey, I'm out of town for a few days. Call me back if you run into any problems at that point, she, not being helped the whole dateline called she did everything right and guess what doesn't matter. If you do everything right doesn't matter. If you do everything wrong nobody deserves to be treated like this. Nobody deserves to be failed by the system like this and if they are,
how come there's, not something in place to hold them accountable, so it doesn't happen again on Fortunately, Justin the only thing people understand his money and do the parents sued. The if you have Utah four hundred and fifty six. million dollars and part of their lawsuit. They brought in an expert, a former Supreme Court judge from the state of Utah to help them. with this lawsuit and what are they doing? trying to make sure this doesn't happen again. The to do that is to hit people in the wallet because money talks, and we're seeing that in this case that the pair are doing the right thing in filed a lawsuit, so they could make a change here. The lawsuit, essentially is ass a fine emotional trauma. The law Lawrence Educational Opportunities and they said
at any money raised through the litigation they as well, go to. foundation, the foundation is promoting Laurens LAW in it supposed to hold gun owners responsible for what people do with their fire arm they let someone borrow the gun, our loan, it out. You know if you say, have an a r fifteen and you give it to a felon and they Go and shoot up a school over loaned the gun out, whoever handed that gun to the criminal going to be held responsible now, the weird thing air and, as we already have laws on the books for this but as we saw they don't enforcing them that holding people responsible, maybe they'll go after a bartender or a bar, if they over serve somebody may,
they'll go after a drug dealer. If you know one of their drugs kill somebody, but here someone a gun and they turn around and shoot. Somebody in the head now. so Laurens LAW literally saying: enforce your gun laws. it's insane Lawrence LAW known as Hb one. Ninety, it's firstly, something that enrages some gun rights advocates, but from I understand it's written so specifically that it would really only apply to people who, like this case knowingly gave a gun to someone who's a criminal, you're negligently handling a firearm off to somebody who could do something dangerous with it and so All it's saying is you need to be responsible if you're going to have your gun off you don't just do the Know who you're giving your gun to on? Fourth we yeah people,
like Vogel who arranged for a purchase for firearm to give to a criminal and he- set to murder a young woman. It's something that not happen when you are a parents of the murder victim. You want to do everything you can to make sure it never happens again and so How can you look at Joe Mccluskey in the face and say you're wrong about this because she's the one who suffered the loss she and Matt lost her daughter? lost her roommate and her friend When is someone going to step up and say, I'm sorry it happened to you, because, as far I can tell this whole case is a bunch of excuses and above Why are you coming at me with this information? This is why whore things happen because you your people who don't give a damn this case, is one of the most glaring examples of what happens. When you look at someone and say I don't care what
I hear people say like oh yeah. We need to report crime we need to know. If you see something say something And in this situation, Erin, oddly enough, woven, told her that she should buy a gun to defend herself Melvin was the only one that actually gave her good advice, she was on around the whole time. She just didn't know it. It feels like to me that her parents that her friend and there are probably others as well- I to give her the right advice, because in this world you would expect, if you do a police officer- and you say There's a criminal he's, making threats against me, he's sexually assaulted me he's stolen my car. What have you that they would something about it, but as we when we started this show they spit wean our expectations and reality some times are shockingly different. So if any, ones out there that is being
stalked is being high fast, not only should you tell lawn we're smoke, but you to tell all your friends and family. You need to inform everybody about this because they might be, the ones that save you, because we have an illusion of safety that society has, order to it. That's there to protect us
the from Wendouree Nikki Boyer host of the new podcast call me curious, look we're all
twenty four seven information overload on our new speeds are in boxes on Tik Tok. That's why I'm bringing you call me curious upon gas that finally gives you definitive answers to life's burning questions. Like does intimate, investing really work. Should I buy crypto every week on call me curious, I'll dive into all the things you've heard about, but don't really know about we'll both learn and laugh along the way, as we explore life's little mysteries. The internet's hottest topics burning. Gotta, know, questions like what of them medical odds. There is other intelligent life in the universe, or is it true, you can't die in your dreams. You'll find out. me and some of my hilarious friends on my podcast call me curious. Listen to call me areas on Apple podcasts, Amazon, music or wherever you listen. You can listen early, an ad free by subscribing to wonder, plus an apple podcasts or the wondering app
Transcript generated on 2022-04-12.