This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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just then, how are you doing wonderful tides case? Is a questionable conviction as what I at wrongful conviction, depending on who you ass, guess, it's either questionable wrongful or they got the right guy talking about wrongful convictions and texas. I happened to just speak to carry max cook some of you, I'm sure I've heard the name. He was probably one of the most egregious wrongful convictions and texas and he fired the innocents project during one of his appeals. I think this'll be his first actual public interview since that occurrence, so get ready for that who we talking about tonight, though, in on this episode, will be talking about a man named lester bauer.
who was convicted of killing four men and stealing in ultralight aircraft back nineteen. Eighty three in sherman texas, now lester is family man, he has wife and kids. yeah, he was married to Sherry bauer and he had two daughters, leslie and holly. He was a college graduate. He graduated from texas, aunt em university. He worked for a chemical company thompson, heyward chemical company. He had no prior convictions, zero criminal history. He was a good father. He was a good husband. This is very
much, not the profile of a quadruple murderer, lester with someone who very much enjoyed the outdoors. He was about hunter. He liked to go backpacking rafting backing. Nineteen the three his desire was to buy an ultra light and go flying his wife wasn't really into this idea, because they had watched a programme on tv, about lights, she noticed how dangerous they were and he was a football player. He was over two hundred pounds he's a big guy and an ultra light is a very, very small aircraft write her. Her quote is over my dead body, you played football. You weigh over two hundred and forty pounds
and you're talking about an aircraft with a lawnmower engine. I don't think so dead. That's that's a good summary of exactly what he's wanting to do. Well. Lester bower will see an ad for an ultra light for sale. Glider rider magazine a man named philip good. Had placed the add for thee, the lights owner bob tate. Now bob tat, philip good, we're friends, philip good, would sell, alter lights from at a time bomb state owned a ranch, it was the being be ranch in sherman, which was about eighties plus miles north of where lustre lived, lester would contact philip and they also tell him that the ultra light had been sold, but there is other one that was up for sale if he was interested, and this ultra light was actually the one that bob tat owned. They will have at least three conversations over the phone.
And all the phone calls will be made from lesters calling card or his company phone card, and it goes back to a company credit card it gets. back to their I'm. Assuming he's doing this because he doesn't want his wife to know that he is buying an ultra light. Aircraft cushy specifically told him not to so he's not making these phone calls from home or he's doing it in such a way that its not traced back to his home phone lester tells his wife that he's going bow hunting for the day correct. Well, that's what his wife says not wanting his wife to know that he is buying this ultra light and he leaves the house very early in the morning, six thirty a m and he's gone all day. Long because of their phone conversations and because of the dialogue between philip good,
MR bower, philip good, tells his wife. I think this guy's gonna buy the plane, because we're supposed to meet on Saturday. So I expected sold saturday, though that's where this case takes a severe turn and that's because the men failed to come home and they are Bob tate, philip good jerry, mac, brown and ronald maize. Marlene good, shows up and is walking around the hangar, and it appears to be locked she's, he's gets thereabout six thirty, she does see the ultra light inside. You didn't see near the men. She just returns home at around seven thirty p m Bobby tate, who is bob's wife, drives with her step son to the ranch. and she's thinking with bob should have been back hours before roughly four thirty p m
Well, she sees the vehicles outside that belong to the men. That should be there and the hangar appears to be locked, but she knows where bob keeps a key as she goes over to his truck and she gets the key to unlock the hangar astonished opens up the door Immediately see the body of ronald maize lying the ground she steps on this back out there and they go to a phone and they call the police investigators show up to the hangar. They will locate the bodies of Bob tate, philip good and jerry mac brown under a pile of car. bidding. They also find ronald maize situated as if he had tried to flee the scene been shot down and drug to a corner, but they could cartel that he was going for the exit door when he was shot and they dragged
two different place, the manner in which these men were shot tell the story. Tate, good and brown had been shot twice in the head execution style. Maize, who we said appeared to have run for an exit was shot multiple too. Times he was shot in the head in the neck, in the right arm and in his chest and back and it had appeared It is though he had been dragged nine feet into the corner. There was blood on table in the hangar, which was later shown to be Bob tastes? Enable
that he was sitting at that table when he was shot from behind. Autopsies were performed on these men and it revealed that each of the men had a gun place to their head when shot and that the gun had a silence or on it. Forensic analysis of eleven shall casings found on the floor of the hangar showed that all the bullets were fired from a single weapon. They will go on to find that recover
two bullets from two different victims, and they will be able to match those two bullets. So not only do we have bullets from separate victims, but all the casings had the same strike marks. So it appears to be one shooter, and what about these as specific bullets that they found? They were twenty two caliber theo key bullets day or imported from ITALY. There, not that common, specially back in the day they were able to identify from the casings were kind of bolts. They were so if they can find these all its orb. I find a match. They got something to go with. They were also sub sonic or a sonic which, if you had a gun with silence or on it, if you're ammunition is not subsiding, it'll still make a crack allowed crack, because the bullet is break
the sound barrier, so when using silencer on a weapon, you want sub sonic ammunition because then almost what you here in the movies- it's very muffled- there is very little sound too it I've why? Demand shoot a silenced. Twenty two rifle and all I heard was the bolt click back and reject the shell, their sub sonic, and obviously the gun had a silencer due to the contact wounds on the victims, each of the men still had their jewelry on them as well, their wallets and nothing appeared to be stolen from them and they found amounts of money on the men, ranging anywhere from fifteen dollars, two hundred dollars. There was one thing missing, though: an ultra light aircraft from the hangar and the ultra light in question was the very ultra light that lesson
bower had indicated in interest in buying that very day police will go through phone records of philip good. They will find phone calls made from lustre bower to him. They will track these numbers back to his calling card to his company, though go back to the company in trace it back to lester, and they will question lester fur three to four hours and when they ask lustre, if he had been to the hangar that day, he says he had not. They ask him if he spoke to philip good. He said he had. He had inquired about an ultra light, but
I decided against buying it. They asked him if he'd been anywhere in the area- and he said no, he is pretty much denying everything yeah. He was interviewed on january, eleventh, nineteen, eighty four and again the murders were committed on october, eighth, nineteen, eighty three and on january, eleventh lester bower was interviewed by fbi special agent nile duke, and he brought up these calls, which happened on September thirtieth. There was a call the lasted ten minutes october. Third was a two minute call. I think that one actually philips wife marleen talk to lest her on the phone, because philip wasn't around and then they spoke again october. Seventh, for a few minutes, lester had a firearm dealer licence and owned a number of firearms, but said he did not own at twenty two caliber hand, gun
when asked well. Where were you if you weren't at the hangar october? If any said he could not account for his whereabouts, did not know, he said he was sick on october. Tenth on January thirty, the nineteen eighty four lester bower is at the fbi Office in dallas- and he is supposed to take a polygraph test- It stays for about four hours, but he doesn't take the test. He does talk, though, and he states that he was interested in ultra lights, but decided not to buy one from What good and he was not in sherman on the day in question, and he never ended up seeing the ultra light that was offered to him for sale. So you can see at this point They know that he was in contact with philip good who is selling the ultra light craft for bob Tate and all Patients were that he was going to be there on that saturday, and yet he claims he wasn't there. So there
suspicious of leicester at this point now they have the phone calls they have lustre denying that he bought. the ultra light. They also have a business card that they found in the pocket of bob tape, and it says its luster bauer's business card. It says I owe you fifteen hundred dollars with all this they decide to go to. Lester's house talked to him there when they approached the house. One of the agents told his partner checked the garage that mean this is sort of for their own protection. You know, they're walking up to house check the garage, see if there's a person in there, the lights were out and his partner the f b. I agent looked into one of the windows of the garage and saw aluminum tubing to what appeared to be an ultralight aircraft. They get a search warrant
Are they serve this search warrant on January twenty and it gives investigators authorization to search his residence and their look for instruction manuals and magazines relating to rule twenty two pistols to silencers to ultra light aircraft, yeah anything anything to do with any printed or materials having to do with firearms or ultralights were also looking for the stolen ultra light, which was an eagle model for nine zero for body clothing were boots, were clothing or boots bear, stains which could be blood. The reason why this was included was The area around the hangar that day was wet and muddy, so they think that whoever had murdered man likely got mud on them and the men were executed at close range. They figured that there
must be blood on the clothing or the poor. The boots or shoes of the person who had committed these crimes lower hold. They find an ultra light aircraft with us. writing resemblance to the missing one. They fine inscriptions. deanna on the wheels bt or bob. Take yes, So basically, his name is is act into the wheels tate yeah they find bloody boots. They find a blue nile on Baghdad as blood on it. Also they find a briefcase in his car. That's in the same garages, the ultra light, and in this brief case they find an alan wrench that goes to a silencer. What happens is there's a company out there that sells silencers and whenever you just from them? They include a letter, it's kind of like a receipt,
it showed that he had purchased a qatar by silencer and the that you put the silencer on, say, a rumour pistol would be used This Alan wrench has like a sink screw or something that you tight knit up with. They do not find a rigour, twenty two caliber weapon, but they find this letter. So they know that he, owned he silencer. They also find that he had purchased a router twenty two caliber arrest. He six in nineteen, eighty two and then shortly thereafter. He sold it to himself as we see. He has a firearms your license and he was selling firearms on the side. Well, these firearms was a rumour, twenty two that he would end up. Selling to himself. Shortly after acquiring it so
bought it wholesale for the company and then he bought it himself from his his company. Also, this the silencer that he bought apparently had some assembly required. It wasn't just a straight silence, or so he had to assemble This and attached to his weapon means yes a lot and know how around firearms, but they cannot find this weapon and he's denying he owns this weapon, but he's caught in a lie with the pressure on him and they have ever been said he sold himself that weapon. and he sang oh, I didn't have it well, he ends up having to come clean. If I mean, if, if you believe his word, he says that he lost it. While backpack in colorado in nineteen eighty two he was living in colorado. That's is reasoning for why he doesn't own one, even though he
the record of having purchased one but being a firearms dealer. He should know that he needs to report this missing, stolen or lost, because if it is used in a crime, he could come back on him, but he never reports it lost or stolen. They also see that parts of the plane had been smashed up right. They end up taking and evidence a sledge hammer that was used to buy step parts of the plan as well as the engine
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I have lester bower, who seems interested in buying an ultra light. His wife does not want him to buy an ultra light, so he appears to be trying to purchase it on the down low. He doesn't really want a record of this. He doesn't want his wife to find out about it and he is supposed to meet philip good over at this hangar on October? Eighth, the investigation involves into doing all these people involves. interviewing marlene good. Who is philip goods, wife, Bobby tate, who is made about eight brown, who is married to jerry mac brown and paul amaze, who was married to recognise a picture, starts to form of this meeting. That's supposed to happen at four p m on October eighth, which is a saturday I could imagine it being kind of a quiet day
because at four p m there still a game going on, which is the texas Oklahoma football game, which is probably a big event. I would say by, you have lester bower, saying I wasn't there. I wasn't at the hangar mean, yet he has this ultra light aircraft release pieces of it in his garage I you saying he's, never owned a twenty two calibre pistol and then they find out that he does the investigation further reveals that this ultra light to being that the agent first saw walking up. The garage has fingerprints from one of the victims on it from you, brown. So you can see why this entire, investigation is going to focus on lester bower he's the last and that was supposed to have seen these men, despite his since that he wasn't there, but we ve begone over, why there is sport that he did show up and they will charge him with murders of these four men and they will do
came to trial and they'll go for a capital offence which carries the death penalty on April, twenty seventh nineteen, eighty four the jury convicts bower of capital, murder,. Just one day later the jury, recommends capital punishment, which is the death penalty, I dont know what the problem is. I, when I, google this man's name. These are the Google heads I see lester bower executed in texas, despite serious doubts over his guilt. Doubts still plague the thirty one year old, lester bower case, but texas is about to execute him, did texas execute. an innocent lustre bower it just goes on and on. Every single article is questioning whether or not lester bower is innocent or guilt. And how do they frame that argument, though? Well, they say that in
Ninety ninety eight, when lustres doing an appeal he comes out and he says yes, I bought the old. Light. Yes, I was lying about it because I was hiding the purchase from my wife. So that's why my statements do not add up. Also a woman named pearl will come forward. It says that a man she was with will admit to her that he killed four men up in german texas Not only will she but a free. Another woman who was with another man. This man, she's, hang out with, is part of an oklahoma drug gang and there's another man. That's in this gang in his girlfriend will come forward to and say that she heard him talk about these murders, so we have to do
Women sang there. Their men were part of his gang in both admitted to killing these or men in, sherman Texas there wasn't a lot of murders going over at least quadruple murders going on in german texas at the time. So they put this together and paid. They must be talking about these four men and the hangar lester might be it also lesters such a good guy. How does lester one guy get the drop on four men, one of which was a police officer deputy the other way, excellent foresman. They also say that bob tate had a history of drugs. Cocaine. All these different accusations against him therefore makes way more sense than
bob would have dealings with an oklahoma drug running gang and if something went wrong, this execution style, murder, would have been committed by multiple assailants and not one and as a result of his dealings with drugs, They also say that well the claims are, and they we mean the that Hence, in we mean advocacy groups for lester advocates, Lester bower say they don't have his finger prints. they don't have any eye witnesses have a murder weapon, its weak circumstantial evidence, but circumstantial evidence and direct evidence are crazy. Things and direct evidence typically means I witness testimony
which, if you listen in red enough documents from innocence projects you you get the feeling that I witnessed testimony isn't very solid, but circumstantial people always take that as well. This is weak evidence, but if you have things putting a person the crime scene. The day of all of a sudden circumstantial is pretty solid physical evidence, very solid, example would be the never found the murder weapon, but what they did find was proof that he had purchased a ruger twenty two caliber rst six, which is exactly the type of weapon that a fire, this ammunition and it's the only weapon that he had that he lost supposedly so they'll say: well, we don't have the weapon, but we can show he did have it in the year, but then it goes missing mysteriously. He can't account for it a big deal.
His lawyers will make about the prosecutions. Theory is the ammunition he used was not as scarce or as exotic as they paint nature of they say that. Will you can get this ammo at any gun show? So when the prosecution is talking about? Well, it's this very specific, a sonic ammunition whose only purpose is to kill. Well, I mean technically, ali ammunition is meant to kill right, I mean, and was it there that uncommon or common of ammunition. Well, the problem, prosecution laid out as check the records in this, of texas, and only ten to fifteen individuals, purchase this ammunition, but the
with that is is later on, they would admit it was more like hundreds of people had purchased it, and if you go from ten to one hundred to me, it's not that big of a leap when you're talking about the state of texas in the nineteen eighties. There's a lot of people here, a lot of people in texas and if you're talking about hundreds of people, that's not a very large number to me. I can see why the defense's harping on this, because it actually is a somewhat weak point of the prosecutions theory, but the ammunition matched. We don't get a exit interview from yours on how much weight they put on each piece of evidence. Maybe if we did, we could go back and make the claim hey this. This ammunition is what caused them.
to get a guilty plea. But personally, if I would have been on that jury, I don't think I would have cared much about the scarcity of this ammunition. I think a man getting caught with an ultra light aircraft, bloody boots, bloody bag and claims that he doesn't have a weapon that just happens to specifically match the weapon that was using them. Herder, but we have record that he does stress the look really bad form when the ammunition was analyzed and they did recover same type of ammunition from bowers home, but when the ok casings at the scene ran eliza, they see that there were several weapons that could have fired this ammunition in their opinion, could have been either an air seven. Twenty two caliber rifle a twenty two caliber rumors
semi automatic pistol or a high standard. Twenty two semi automatic pistol. If he truly wasn't there and he's trying to get rid of any weapon that might have been used in the I'm well. How did he know what caliber was well? Some would point out the fact that Your answer was: he lost it, while backpacking in colorado, anita on his side, its it was already missing, but it's the one weapon that they were able to show that he had purchased but didn't have in his possession anymore. So it's kind of convenient or perhaps inconvenient, him and, of course, if he sang at trial that he will and their that day, and yet he has Bob tits. Plane is garage, which is what they found We are to talk about the tyres that have tate etched into them. We talked about the fingerprints on the aluminum tubing
What is he saying? There was actually an eye witness that saw him out there. Her name was marjorie car. She owned a fruit, stand in german and she testified tat. She saw lester and philip good and late september of eighty three and they are asking about buying oranges from her and she saw them together right if we go back through and weeds, we look over witness statements, people that new meetings or had witnessed them, together, meaning philip good and lester bower. I believe the first one was on September thirtieth, that was the woman at the fruit stand and then october fifth, They had met up somewhere and then driven out to the ranch together to take a look at the ultra light. It just shows that there's more ties more connections here than than what he claims there is what I think they're getting at, oh, is that bower would say, as he will,
Your admit that he was there. He would say I went there. I gave them thousand dollars I gave them. My car with an eye. Oh you for the other fifteen hundred and that I watched it a couple the guys packed up the ultra light. and put it on his international scout, he's is that he saw bob take. These are philip good and jerry mac. Brown and that good and brown are the ones that load it up. ultra light under his scout- and then he over way and then something must have happened after he left. So what time did he meet them at? He said that he got there at four p m: and that it took about fifteen minutes for bob take to show up and Bob had the key to the hangar. So they couldn't go in and look until he showed up right. It was. It was bob's property so about for fifteen. They enter the hangar supposedly
and then he arranges the sale at that time, and then he leaves packing up this ultralight everything which, as you know, for fifteen to five o clock. Forty five minutes me maybe, if you know I'm say on the on the long and they might have taken forty five minutes if they really taken their time Yeah depends on if they were talking or what have you bet, I believe bob tainted his wife that he would be home around four thirty. So I don't think he expected to take long and that would make sense lester as saying that browning good were packing up the ultra light onto his vehicle. Will bob tate wouldn't need be around for that, so he told his wife you'd be home around four thirty right. Ok, the wives of these victims start looking for them at six thirty, right, that's marlene good. She looks for the man, it's its thirty at the hangar. It's locked up. She sees the
vehicles outside, but she hasn't seen anything really. She noticed is that the the ultra light is not inside the hangar, but we can conclude that this crime is already happened by six thirty right. There was europe, or that neighbours nearby heard shots fired around six thirty, but If Marleen good is at the location around six thirty, then they're, probably hearing something else, maybe hunters, and if a silencer and subsequent grounds are being used. They might not have heard that specially if it's inside the hangar I would, I would venture to say that if, if you have- killer using a router. Twenty two caliber with a silencer and a sonic were sub sonic ammunition neighbours aren't going to hear that go too far away. So we have a very short window of time pretty much from for thirty two six,
thirty. The one man said he was going to be home at four thirty. That's why his wife is coming to look for him because he's two hours late. If he's going to be meeting other drug dealers and whatnot in doing a deal, that's really cutting it short he's going to have to overlap the drug dealing. and the ultra light. So you know, risk is double booked here. Young Marleen, good shows up at six thirty bobby take will show up at seven thirty and unfortunately she's the one that finds ronald maize and anne and, as we said, the investing asian kicks off at that point. So we have this question here of was your bower the killer, because his background, if you listen to his wife, if you listen to his case This was a good family. Man aims a good worker. He could, done this, is it he's he's? Not a killer. Is
they would describe him. He'll be was a family guy. So when you look at the evidence, is the evidence truly painting a picture of it? color or is this just a man whose business with bob tate just happened to occur a short time before by tate and the other three men were murdered and, of course he would leave evidence or he would take evidence with them, because they were separate incidents and he was purchasing an ultra light so tat he would take that the plane with them. Now I have a problem because he does not fit the profile he's one man against for now. It's not for all at the same time, so at least two or three of them at the same time, an o f a forthcoming later. How does one man get the drop on so many by himself?
a man that has no record and no prior convictions. I can see why people questions about this, but since two other men there are law enforcement and By that I mean one of them was a former police officer and the other man was a this officer, who had recently become a sheriffs deputy, they weren't even carrying big. They didn't have any weapons on them, whoever showed up their brought a weapon It seems to me from the scene from the way things went down, these men weren't expecting to meet someone who had a weapon. Let's just say for the sake of argument- that bob too was involved in drugs. Wooden here probably had a weapon on him. I would think I would think the two long forest
guys. Would have weapons on them while they do look into these victims, they do look into their backgrounds and yeah. They tear bob dates, boat up looking for any kind of indication of drugs. They test things. Looking for drugs, they don't turn up anything. So these allegations from execution watch and other advocacy groups for him or saying at least one of these victims was involved with drugs Then we have these other two witnesses, pearl and and the other woman who say that they were involved with gangs that were in the area who admit to killing these men. I mean there's a connection there. Right we have, the real killer is out on the loose, but we have any evidence that bob tat was involved with any sort of drugs and none of these men that court uncool amid
to killing these these for men too to pearl and the other woman have ever come forward, but yet the I haven't gone after him because there's nothing there. Bob tate was fifty years old. He was married to Bobby tate and he was a self employed builder, philip good with, twenty nine he was a grace in county deputy sheriff married Marleen good. His birthday was october knife, which was that sunday, the day after he was murdered. Jerry mac brown was a deacon at his church and a paint contractor slash interior designer who was also in air force at her in and served in korea run. Amaze was thirty nine. He was a former sherman police officer, married nepal, amaze lester will be in prison for decades. During time. There will be appeals. You mention pearl She had signed an affidavit. Giving
in the name of the person who she had been dating at the time who had admitted to killing for men in sherman, well. Why wouldn't have an impact on this case? Back then in the eighties texas law prevented state judges from sitting evidence thirty days or more after a conviction. So is basically a cut off point. You have a month to come with something otherwise removing on, since that time that law has changed. One thing that does come: when it comes up in many cases is dna testing at the time the investigation, allow large number of items were collected from the hangar. They even collected hares and other items that came in handy later, when, as part of the defence, they wanted dna testing done and This was back in what two thousand eleven they tested it in a lab and
sis and they also sent the items off to a lab in another they were, I think, of his pennsylvania to be tested as well. So the first lab came back and said We were able to identify dna from five individuals and they were bob tate, cherry mac, brown, philip good ronald maize and lester bower, sir he's not included they only yes, they only identified five individuals from the materials that they tested and the blood on the boot and the blue nylon bag. It came back inconclusive, they were trying to go for blood type back in nineteen, eighty three, but they just weren't able to get anything from it, but he has blood on his boot. bag. I know hunters will cut themselves and bleed on themselves, but it just seems a little suspicious. Now during the time that lester is our surrounded his life obvious, these in turmoil as well
as the wives of the men who were murdered, interesting to see how there lie changed because of what happened any of the women remarried, even though stirs. Wife divorced him. in nineteen eighty eight it just got to be too much. She would end up asking him. Two remarry her, even though he initially says no, they be remarried in ninety ninety three, maintains his innocence. Yeah. I think your she stood. by him and I think it's because They have a long history. She met him when she was fifteen, they were high school sweethearts. They married in nineteen sixty eight, they had two daughters and one sad thing was his younger daughter, who is aid at the time, had to ask what lethal injection was. She had heard that, but you didn't understand what they were talking about and, of course both girls were pretty devastate
it even though they probably couldn't put it into words. They knew something bad was happening. They knew deep down that he was going to be taken from them it adds to the feeling that people have that there's something wrong with this case. You know So now we ve talked about it all week. In fact, I think we talked about this case more leading up to the recording than most other cases because from all accounts This guy is just a good guys of is a big guy. He could look intimidating, I'm sure, but everybody had nicely say about him, his own family, stuck by him. Damn it's it's really hard to put it together on how a man like this would suddenly decide to kill for men and steel in ultralight aircraft that he could afford. Yeah, that's the mets. My problem is, he could afford it. He didn't need to steal it. I heard a lot of the advocacy groups say: what's his motivation
What is his motivation? I don't. I don't have one for to steal an airplane that he could about how right it does make a lot of sense. All we can say is: if lester did it, then he went to that meeting at four p m on October eighth, armed with a twenty two router that was equipped with a silence. Her Why would you need to bring a gun with silencer if you're, just bringing along protection? You dont need silencer. So that's a real possum is that he went to that meeting armed and I think, if you go on, with a silencer, it's almost like a mob hit and You have say two men in a room and you shoot one, the other man might he would be so alarmed may be. Right I mean if there was an I'm a firearm and it went off that would get his attention but if it's a silenced weapon that using
sub, sonic ammunition. Now we're talking very quiet, they might not understand what's happening in. We freeze your dear and headlights. You dont know some somebody just the ground. Neither is a witness. A man named George Barbie. He is ronald maize. Uncle he said that about four thirty ronald looked over towards. Hangar and saw that was still closed up, that concern ronald because it should have been opened up. The other man should have been over there and it should have been opened up. This was not normal and he concerns, so he said he was going over there to take a look. What I find interesting is which barbie says this bad, no one went after ronald mean, maybe It is assumed that he went over there and then they opened up in and all the guys were this hanging out, because these men were friends. Those four men take good maize and brown, raul friends, and they would fly the ultra light ever.
ass, they got to me but it does it establishes that at four thirty everything was closed up. It was quiet over there and that was definitely not normal. not on a saturday like that, it should have been opened up, that to me. It establishes that by four thirty everything had already taken place. Except for the murder of robert maize, three, the bodies recovered and carpet they had all been moved. An ultra light had been loaded up there there's a lot going on here. None of them had been robbed. So I guess I'm looking at the drug angle here, I'm thinking if I'm a drug dealer and I'm gonna kill for men.
For whatever reason I'm going to take their money, because the three thousand dollars was not recovered from them. I'm going to take their wallets too. Why wouldn't I? I read a lot of forms that were defending leicester and saying: well, how would he get the drop on these guys? What's his motivation, you know why would it be stupid enough to live the business card and I'm thinking. Why would anyone be stupid enough to leave the wallets of all these men in their pockets? Why would somebody go end attack for men, too, of which our law enforcement there's there's a lot of problems here? Also, why would Bob have a background in drugs? Andy friends with law enforcement that would be kind of a conflict of interest. Well, some would say that law enforcement
access in that area was corrupt. Okay, that's fine! That's their argument! Yeah, but again I have a problem with it because you hear accusations like this all the time. I just want a little bit of evidence and in this case, that I didn't find anything to back up those statements. All of it points to leicester every single bit of it. I really put a lot of stock into this statement by george barbie because he sang it for thirty ronald's concerned and he goes over there where he can see. It's not opened up, there's something wrong. so he heads over there. We know he is shot as though he's running away, so he walked in on whatever was going down and tried to flee and was murdered for it. When I look at this, I think what happened was Unfortunately, lester bower went there to commit murder the fact that the three thousand dollars wasn't left, which I think would have helped his case. I dont think you want to pay them
I think, whatever happened, immediate good. It could even be that he said all right you this. I owe you and let's negotiate the price were arguing about this, but this was a guy brought a gun and a silencer. I I to me it just says that he went there that that's the way I'm seeing this, and so he kills these two men and then Bob take shows up. He kills philip good and jerry mac brown and cover them with carpet, and then here comes bob. Take about for fifteen, I'm going to use lesters timeline as well. So then, here comes Update he's running a little late. That's because feel good was handling the business forum, but here cause bob he enters, and then he takes a sea
Maybe because he thinks he's going to be negotiating with this guy. He doesn't know where his buddies are, or maybe he's told, to take a seat at gunpoint could be. It could be that too, that he sees forced at gunpoint take a seat, and maybe it's like I This amuse the sky. Whatever on any he'll. Let me go, I won't, I won't be killed, but he doesn't know His friends are dead because their covered up- yes, he probably doesn't see them, and then he shot in the back of the head and then of course you have lester, getting ready to till leave with his ultra light that he's stolen and here comes on a and rather may sees probable. The blood I would imagine if he doesn't see a body and lester has to shoot him down. It's not a clean execution. The with the other three were, and then he leaves and he'll take this ultra light and he'll store it at a shooting range.
for later moving it over to his garage at his house. I concur with what you just said. The things that are the biggest problems I have are he lied about going there multiple times he can lie all he wants to his wife about concealing the purchase of this. This ultra light, but when fbi agents are talking to you yeah, I dont see that is continuing the lie worthy. He also lies about owning the gun and not owning the bullets. Yet he did have the gun. He did have bullets. He knows about this, but he decided to lie about that in a just, so happens that that's the one gun that goes missing and then he destroyed the aircraft. He if he bought this ultra light, fair and square. Why would he need to do troy evidence at this point. That's what really sunk it in for me. He was destroying the the ultralight yeah. He had told somebody that, oh
have an ultralight ready to go. I just need an engine for it, yeah because he busted the engine up. So I dont care about what you're. Not the search war was valid. I don't care about the prosecutions theory on how commoner uncommon. This ammunition is, Those things are there they're not relevant any longer the ammo matched healed. about owning it, and he tried to destroy evidence. If he didn't do it, then he got himself tried, convicted and executed. That's pretty cold thing to say This is his fault. He had appeals over the years they went after how come they weren't you? to establish his good character like why didn't that matter in court? Of course, other people have pointed out. You know if you can, but you murder for people
blood. Then it doesn't matter how nice you were before that you dont get points accrued for that and then oh, you get a free murder it. It doesn't work that way. Of course, we already talked about the ammunition. The also pointed out that he thought it was cruel and unusual punishment to be kept on death row for more than thirty years just to be put to death, but you can't make that argument because for people lost their lives and so once you do something like that, the rules change for you. You know longer safe. I git executing somebody after thirty seven years is pretty bad, but he was appealing this whole time when he finally was executed last year or twenty fifteen? He said. Let us move on, I'm not saying that an admission of guilt but he was ready to go. He was tired of fighting, but
If it's cruel and unusual, we need to vet capital murder cases. We need to make sure we're doing it if we're gonna go the whole way and execute somebody by the way. I don't agree with that, but for going to do that, there are automatic appeals in place to make sure that this is scrutinized thoroughly. His case was now there's a lot of redacted documents and things of the api I didn't bring out, but it none of it really mattered when it came to the details of his case and the evidence that was against him now, there was quite a fight to try and prevent his execution from moving forward at the first six execution dates didn't go through. It was only on the seventh execution date that they finally gave him a lethal injection and put him to death in texas there's no last meal. You know, there's
story of leicester, ordering actual large pizza anything he just gets, what everyone else in his unit gets. So he had bake chicken, mashed potatoes, black eyed, peas and expected bowls and some bread. Think what this case highlights for me is the fact that you can't use a person's character to determine whether or not they murdered. You can't use a person's criminal wreck. Or especially lack thereof as evidence of whether or not they committed a crime. When it comes down to it We need to examine the evidence that we have in this case, we have a man who didn't. You conceal the purchase of an ultra light so that his wife wouldn't find out it's very likely that he went to this hangar. And murdered for men and stole the ultra light
it off with a in later try to destroy evidence because he knew they ran to him. He was concealing a lot more things that didn't matter things that if it was only the ultra light, purchase the gun, the silencer, the bullets, all these other things that he denied wouldn't have mattered.
At the. in the late. Sixteen hundred the coast of north America became a hotbed of piracy, but american its were much more than just armed robbery of the high seas. They were also crucial figures in the growth of the thirteen colonies. That would eventually
become the united states. I lindsey grant the hosts of wondering, show american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped america and americans. Our values are struggles and our dreams in our latest series, we take you back to the so called golden age of piracy and review the true stories behind such mythical figures as black beard and captain Kidd loose. To the age of pirates by following american history, tellers on apple podcast, amazon, music or wherever you get. Your pot casts within one Girls and ad free by joining one replace an apple pon casts or the one rehab
Transcript generated on 2022-10-16.