March 11, 2011. Bethesda, Maryland. In this replay of episode 157, we discuss the murder of Jayna Murray at a Lululemon store and the investigation into her coworker, Brittany Norwood, who stated that two intruders had attacked the women. This episode has been remastered to improve the audio quality of the original file.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join wondering plus in the wondering app to listen ad free to episode is a replay, its episode, one, fifty seven, which aired on November twenty fifteen this episode is the LULU Lemon murder. I have to admit that Tom I go via LULU women store, it's not their high quality yoga pants, I think about. But it's the. That happened on March eleven twenty eleven, I hope you find episode is intriguing, as we did we'll be back to our regular. Schedule programming next week. I think the best weddings should be truly personal and filled with honour credible moments in for any wedding. You want there's one place to start Zola. What planning shouldn't take over your life and Zola, has thought of everything seek and plan the celebration. That's right for you, whatever your style or budget Zola has covered, then use fatigue.
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feel like I'm recovering from the air, the media that, where did so tonight, we're talking about an incident that went down in Bethesda Maryland and it was say, a yoga store where two women are applied. We attacked one dies from her injuries and the other one remains alive that where we start What happened was that store was due to be opened, so worker gets to the store goes to open the store but fine set at head. Possibly broken into- and this is a LULU Lemon yoga store- that is right next to an apple store, also and there's a reason why its next to the apple store, it's it's in a very nice part of town.
Lula. Lemon athletic is considered a luxury retailer it. It's kinda having poacher Tiffany near by its store like that, but they specializing yoga clothing in meditation and good vibes, around so that the store owner is over. the store she realizes that it's been ransacked and she thinks that there could be. Some inside still so she grabbed say on a pedestal. Any good samaritan that happens to be standing around the sky leave his name is Ryan was waiting in line to get an Ipad two from the apple store from the apple store. This is around the time of the law, so it's like within the first day or two, and he was, Secondly, going to get an Ipad well now he's got someone from next door saying can you please go in I'm nervous site? I think something's happened to the store.
So he goes in and he ends at finding one worker dead. I think he pushes are a little bit with. Maybe they typically split. He actually has to push through a door. That's been kind of barricaded in it's like I don't know, the break room or a clause that he actually has to open up a door and he's kind of following a trail blood and then he finds the body on the ground, and he gets freak out and he starts to run away actually. But he hears moaning, he here's another person, there's a survivor at the scene. Summers! That's when authorities are old they go in and one of the women is definitely decease and and was alive, so they free her because she's been bound with zip ties
rests yeah she's lying on the ground? Her hands are tied above her head and her legs are tied, she's bleeding from her forehead. Oliver phase and if you, if you ever seen, if you ve ever had a cut on your head, it bleeds alot cut mark. All over her sheep, she looks like she's pray messed up. right- and this is a Saturday its March twelve. The one ceased woman, who is she he's Jane a Murray. She thirty years old, she had worked at the store for quite a while and then the fiber is Brittany, Norwood and she's, twenty eight and is actually the second LULU Lemon Athletic a store that she's worked at the police officers. Take Brittany to the hospital actually question. Her a little bit the hospital. They understand that she's, probably you ve been through a lot, but They also know that, since it's a very recent attack that the best time
information is now so she's willing. They certainly would like to get a statement down so that they can start trying to crack the case. She describes a horrific tale, she says that her and her coworker had closed the store and actually were walking to their cars and Brittany had forgot. Her wallet and Jana had forgot. Another item, like a laptop she they get ahold of Jana but she doesn't have Jane, is information because she's kind of new there, so she contacts and other co worker who she does have information for and ass her paid. Any Jane is number. I forgot my wallet and that coordinates. He says well Rachel's right across the street. And Rachel's the store manager. I can just have her come over and let you into the store- and you can get your wallet and pretty says Now- bother her because Jane is out here. She's here
towards our car- I could just contact her and then she could just come back instead of making Rachel. Does she Austria filmmaking her, get ready and come out cause it's late. There I made this point: they left the store at nine, forty, five or so and though she says they'll find says she gives her Jane is information. She places a call to China and Jane, says What's goin on she does. Why forgot my wat, an JANUS? As you know, what I think I left my laptop in their so I'll does come back. We'll go animal, get our stuff go, so she meets her there and now the reason Jane. I can get her because China has that capability. You really is a store. She got that she's, the key holder, correct. Brittany cannot just go in another story like that, so she needs someone to let her in and she says they go in to get their staff now. On the way out. She says that men were hiding behind some clothing racks. These two men
dressed in black, that entered the store, while there are retreating, their items right. The police pulled security, footage camera footage from the back alleyway and actually see two men dressed in black walking by at about the same time, I am that the alleged attack happened and she'll say that she didn't know anything about them because you're wearing all black couldn't tell anything, but she would gas that they were caucasian based on the way they sounded And she said that they were both attacked and that she tried to help China, but she wasn't able to and that they were both raped. And she says that the man used a hanger honour that certain items I know they had multiple what and hammers and like Abe a wooden peg thing, something happens where they insert some
things to assault her with two shaven says that she was pushed down on top of joy It's really amazing how much information she gave because she didn't seem to really want to talk for long Khazar receive. She must have been through a lot so, but they have. Information to start to go to work on the case and there for these two men on the security camera footage which they find him yeah, because she doesn't say: there's just two men chiefs. He describes them as being there's a taller one and that's shorter about five. What five? I think so there's a disparity in there are so two men all dressed in black should stand out believe she also says one of mad, a backpack yeah, so they pull up the footage from the apple store has a camera outside
and lo and behold, right around that time, two men with disparity in their height go walking by one wearing a backpack. I believe that was the taller one wearing the backpacker sets often invest nation, who are these people amazingly, how they do it, but they figure out who those people are those. They first think that it's this man named Keith Keith is a homeless man, but it said that he does get involved in some drug dealing and things like that now to make money that night he had shown up at a hospital, bloody you'd. Think that's red flag right there right. He fits this description. He hangs out with a man who's about five five and he shows a bloody at the hospital.
And he says that he had been hit by a guy. Meanwhile, you got security. Camera footage right there at least two men will trouble, is Keith story checks out. He ends up not being a very good suspect. They can come Keith off the list and, furthermore, to men, seeing in the footage they can place them as being as working in the restaurant next door. There. They were like dishwashers or somethin, but they were wearing their restaurant uniforms, which happened to be black. That's right! The opium chain Things are whatever you know. Their waste make em where, like black aprons and black everything, yes of these guys check out, they have multiple witnesses, they were working and they were leaving and they just happened to go past. The yoga store at this particular moment. What a coincidence, during their interview with Brittany, there asked
she knows anything about the victims car. She says she seen at one: sheep. She didn't really recollect work A car was or a lot of detail about it, so the police purchase like ok. Well, we were just wondering During the investigation, the police find a lot of evidence at the scene they find bloody footprints. They find multiple devices her weapons used in the attack. They find that Brittany had fairly superficial wounds Right that sort of bugged them early on, but the shoeprints were a big early on, because they found that there were prince that belong to Brittany, and then there were prince that belong to a pair of Reebok
will they are finding a pair of reeboks in the store that recital fourteen year and Ass Brittany about the shoes and she said, oh yeah, the store has a pair of men, shoes and she said it's fur right display shoes or demo shoes to set their use for alterations, ok yeah, so when they're trying the clothing on, they know where the fitting in where the pant legs gonna fall right, and I imagine their size fourteen, which is actually size. I wear by imagine size fourteen, because most people will come in under that yeah, so they fit everybody really just just for that purpose, were they didn't understand? Was why, they there and why was there I'll bet, a blot on them. You why? Why would the attackers come in and
put on this pair of shoes that was at the at the store, walk around with them and then take them back off and clean them and clean them. That just doesn't make a lot of sense. They were stored out of sight yeah. You wonder why would they even know of their existence? They also are questioning why every single weapon used in the attack was from inside the store. Now I know some criminals will just break in and grab whatever is available to them. I I know that's a possibility, but it's just looking a little suspect at this point. Yeah the other thing about the shoot, Prince's forty one, those shoot They are never seen, leaving the store allow the way the prints are laugh. They say it's inconsistent with normal biomechanical movement
so not looking like somebody wearing them left the prince. What I would say is ITALY, be more as though some one wasn't walking very well in them. Tat s all. Is there there's a normal stride when you leave prince these weren't, this wasn't normal stride and some of them there. I think there are actually moving to the side like sidestepping almost and then there other marks on the floor that were very odd and these could not be accounted for until they did further testing on the shoes and what they do is they got another pair of shoes and because the lace had been undone on the reeboks. They got it. parachute laid out a long stretch of white paper and then got animal blood on the laces and then
started walking left this same marks that they saw in the store, so the laces weren't tied. They were untied and drew her untied end. They were trying to figure out how will be possible. These other marks were left on the floor and why the bloody prince literally would go one way. over by the sink. They literally disappear, and then they don't come back away from the sink. So they say it's like someone took them off there to wash them and then didn't put them back on for their walk back. Why would someone enter the store and, Those issues on very, very suspect and then again at any level bare and leave them there and its very suspect to that she would have such minor injuries. Now what were injuries? She had a cut on her forehead and cut on her hand, and the cut, on her hand, was such that
could have been as if she was holding a knife in the knife slipped and cut her, that's for the cut was so they're becoming suspicious but who's becoming suspicious. Well, it's Dimitri Reuven he's the younger detective out of the two detectives working the case he's the younger guy. I believe he was born in Russia is very suspicious early on, but his partner who's been a detective for over thirty years. Detective jury he's very hesitant. Why? Why think he's more, sensitive to what's going on Jane a is white, in Britain or wood. Is why? And I think he was of the mindset, We need a lot more evidence before I'm ready to go in that direction. Yeah and also if Brittany was a victim in this crime, he's being sensitive to that? Absolutely you can't get this wrong now. Reuben he's really feeling has got instinct tellingham. She did this or
first, I think at this it like early anything, see it. She at least knew the killers and let the men because, whilst which he not be injured very seriously, at all I mean Her life was never endangers furs, they knew when they checked out the hospital and also check out, because she is, she had said that she'd been raped and assaulted with the wooden hangar. They checked, or any kind of injuries, and they didn't find any no evidence of a sexual assault, nothing that would indicate tat anything like that on either of the women okay, so they need more evidence. They process the car. They look at both of their cars and
they find Britney's cars, okay, but they find something interesting with JANUS car. What are they find with hers? To find some blood will first, they find that it's been parked a few blocks away and then inside of it they find some blood there, confident that they could test items from the car and get dna from it? But I'll say right now, in this case the lab that would be doing the dna work. Was pre overloaded. So they had to be very careful. I know While this idea that you can just send a lab a thousand items not just start running through in testing them all, but it's not that easy that this isn't the only case their working on, so they re they have to be careful and send them a limited number of items to test here. Is our best bet were in a test these things and run with those and see what we get? This has become a high profile case.
it's in a very well to do. Area people are are scared now because they assume theirs, two assailants on the loose and they have to get this right. Sir, sales of self defence tools, have gone up. spray and other items have gone up. People are nervous now These men strike again. Meanwhile, Brittany, the has to tell her family that there two men loose and that they saw her information her address. They know where she lives they went through her ball at or whatever, and they know where she lives and she had our family, that it's a possibility that they I mean they could come back for her because she survived the police officers, the detectives they find this blood
JANUS Car and they know the blood came from Brittany. Now? How does that blood get in the car? Will they ask Brittany during that? First interview? Do you know it car, JANET rise. She says no, I've only seen at once. So there's no explanation, in the initial interview of why there's blood and Jane as car, it's sort of a sticking point with me. We should say that the detectives were impressed with Britney's family. This is just a very close knit respectable family, not the kind of family. You expect have any problem. You know they're just good people, they interviewed her brother and they wanted to know any kind of information he could give on Brittany. They need more information,
they're processing items of interests? Looking for dna looking further evidence, because who knows she could have known the attackers they came in, there were just trying to work every angle, the brother Chris. He tells them a strange story. He is confused as to why she was spared. He doesn't know why, because he knows that the other one, MRS brutally murdered it will get into what happened to her. I bet that he talked about when she was young. Their father was driving her to a soccer game and they ran gas. Well, he told her remain with the car and he would go get gas and he would be back but just to stay in the car don't go anywhere while he went and got gas and he came back and she was gone. Brittany had left, the car she ass. She left the car. Now she left it of her own accord. She hitchhiked back home. So it's weird stuff,
and it's odd- that our brother Chris volunteered that again it doesn't mean much, but it should was that Brittany is a little impulsive. Maybe take mobile in a word from our sponsor zip recruiter. If you haven't noticed- Businesses had to be very flexible this past year, from working. Remotely too, pivoting their business models for long, long term survival and growth. If you're in of hiring for your business or just need some extra help, especially of your hiring for brand new roles. Thankfully, there is one place it you can We count on to make hiring faster and easier zipper, gruner dot com. Slash, Jen. Why, when you post your job ones, it recruiter you get sent out to over a hundred top job boards would just
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they say no one will be the next morning will bring her in the next morning at believe. It's like ten, a m that they show up. So she comes back to the police station on her own accord. To you speak to the crime and give more information about it. Like I have this one other thing, I need to tell you Colombo, one more thing and chief leaves that she can tell miss one more thing and then just go. But, of course, is not that easy, because The information she has is pretty important. So what does she tell? she says that at some point, be intruders demanded. She put, I think, has put a cap on her head or something like that and move Jane is car. It's an odd request. They say to move the car and, of course, its blocks away, then he's be moved to
that, after that, she needs to come right back or they'll kill her and they know where she lives, because they have her idea, but she doesn't really bring that up. as far as I know, in this interview, yet who says that chief years for her life, if she doesn't do, is ask because they ve already killed Jana, but she also admits that she saw a police officer while she was in the car where she parked So she has now left the scene where she was being raped and held captive to go, move her coworkers car and she doesn't flee. and she actually sees a police officer while she's doing this Aaron for the two intruders and she returns back to the westward swung make that that clear, right, very odd statement. Of course, the detectives
This point are thinking well this just of all the unlikely things that we have heard so far this just as this has gotten just ridiculous. So of course they need to go in talk with there captain with the brass and they need to talk with them in fear of a strategy here because now the religious leg stories unbelievable. We can't let her out. and if we let her go now, she may flee she's. At this point she has told them. She may move together area just because of all the stress, but that You know her family has offered to fly her back whenever they need her, because she understands that she's a witness to this crime, but at the same time, in her first interview, she said she didn't know what kind of car her worker drove and then in the second interview she sang, I got in a car and moved it and came back to them to the scene of the crime
She gives no explanation about the shoes, the bloody footprints, her stories, not really making sense. No it doesn't make sense. I don't mind her saying I don't know what kind of card is that she was basically saying that she hadn't been in the car, and I am saying she had been exactly that's what the detectives are closing in on yeah So they say that's all findings, but we need details. And this is where she to get a little upset. She doesn't like having to come up with these details because they're asking her ok. So what exactly happened? How did this come that you? to go moved this car and she says, do have her keys and she said now. I doubt sir, she had a route around find Jane is keys, so she had to go through explain things in more detail. The sectors at this point are starting to feel really confident that she's just gonna keep tripping
First of all that there is no way sheet, there's no way she was prepared. The way they looked at this was it had spooked her. The car thing had spooked her. She. She must have understood that. The reason why they had asked earlier about the car is because she must have left evidence in there, and so she had to come up with a story. That's what they're thinking But now the question is because she is starting to get upset and she is starting to say I want to go. I want to leave and there responding to that one of the things they do I'll say, give us a minute, we'll be right back and they would leave and go talk with their with the brass again and then they will come back and kind of thrown a questionnaire. They can we do that so many times before they have to make a move I mean this is like when you buy a car in the salesman, goes off the talked management you can get up and leave whenever you want disposed people out of politeness. Don't but she's not being told
cheese detained or under arrest or anything. During this whole second interview she just hold hold on a minute while she waits well that will change and they'll end up cuffing her to the table yet, and they do reader rights because they feel like she could be a flight rest. They think they could get her back, but they just really they need to move on this now they engaged the arrest and read her her rights. They read her rights and that way they can keep her for a while. They start to tell her what they have they start to tell her how they feel like she's, not been honest with them, that they have a good idea of what happened and they try to appeal. tour. We don't know what happened. Perhaps you too got in a fight; perhaps it got out of control. They brought up her family, how gray her family seemed, but she would they climb up. She wouldn't she wouldn't admits anything and they went through the evidence. They said Europe.
Early scratched- and here the other woman is completely annihilated. She she just has nothing much to say now, her family is there and they d I d bring her brother and sister in Chris America, because she's asking for them. She's feeling pressure and she's really scared. This point, since she asked for her family so they're happy to do that and they start telling them the evidence. So start a wonder. Was that really a good thing for Brittany to ask them to be brought in? Will now they get the through all this stuff, it Chris America, amorous starts to get really upset. Anchoresses light is, please just take her out of here. They start talking with Chris after morasses moved. I don't know, I got the feeling from his statements and reactions that he was starting to have some doubts about his sisters story, but he said she's, my sister yeah value. Yes, she's my family, I I can't just
abandoned her, and so he asked for time along with his sister, so they leave crew in Brittany in the interrogation room together. Chris, let's are now because she's worried about the room being bought He says now I've I've looked around. I don't see anything. There's no device in here to record us, says. I need to know- and she said I'm going to ruin our whole family. He says: no you're, not you're, not you need to talk. You need to tell me I need to know. I can't help you if I dont know anything he asks about her and her co worker and she says I dont know how this, and so he sang so you did it now course the detectives they're watching all this does, there's cameras lowering I'm sure they're snap in their fingers and clap your hands are going up. Ok, now we ve gotta. We know she's essentially now here's the tricky part she's essentially saying she did it without coming out and sang it did it. She didn't confessed
but she didn't say I absolutely no denial, there's no denial and she's worried about the impact of what this could mean for her family. He asked sir about. Did you steal something? Here's what and I've been saving this time now, because this is a chilling point. All this evidence there's a motive, possibly what's the motive fright. Brittany has a history of stealing things, is like a club dough right. It's not just a history, it say a long and pattern pattern, and- his, whereas someone like someone at the other store she worked at, took a perfume bottle out of her bag. It was a very Wang, perfume and use it on herself and Brittany and they love. Love did, of course, and she put it- and her bag. She hung the bag up and then went to change when she came back. took her bag and laughed two days later. She does.
Is that the viewer Wang was not in her bag. Now she had never taken it out, but this is a path There are so many interviews where people said yeah. I just had this money missing that money missing all the way back to high school, where classmates and teammates ever I think, she's, icon, softball team or something said, make sure your lockers locked, because bread me will go through your stuff and take things shoes, soccer player, very good soccer play soccer play in this. actually why she had a move to this other store? Let's go something really interesting. There's a special night once a year, so slew lemon athletic as a luxury store. Employees didn't make a ton of money to make eleven living allergen. Our health insurance is provided, they get fitness club, they get yellow classes provided for and they get really good discounts, I'm merchandise, but once a year there
if something called shop night and at the end, the year they get a discount night where they can get a. I think it's like seventy percent off essential Dick Yossi. Now it's like wholesale cost almost but there's a cap so they can buy a thousand dollars worth of retail merchandise at seventy percent off, which would be its little over three hundred dollars worth of their capped at to spend with their discount yeah well, she had asked for her cap to be loosened because she to spend a little bit more. The manager said, ok sure. Well, she purchased well over two thousand dollars, for it is almost twenty two hundred, I think, and it cost her six hundred and sixty dollars. This is what gets everybody in trouble? Is the manager was unkind,
but with the holes stealing thing, because at the store money was going missing and if only happen unaids, she worked. So you in this final straw that broke the camel's back of her going well over the spending limit, and they decided to fire her for discount abuse, but instead she transfers in Inter investigation happens because she's, not the only one who breaks the rules. Ok, the store it You could say they have a philosophy and I think the way they serve to look at this was this: isn't enough to fire people, for we just need to tighten our rules. And will let people know about this and then we'll reinstate these people, so she contacted Brittany but see Brittany, wasn't doing very well the store, because so many people were suspicious of her. So she decides I'll move to thee, leave them in store and Bethesda, but the manager there has heard about her in there
bag checks every night yeah. They have to she's heard about her. Her reputation proceeded her, but she had no choice because the company said you need to take her. but they do do bag checks and there is a suspicion after while that they think that she's been shoplifting from the store here we go in and I a question Jane A has been asked to check or back in Jane a fines items in her back. He finds a pair of yoga pants and she says Do you ever received for this, or Brittany rightly says why do have ever see a mean employs, would usually not keypresses, because good return him. Anyway, there were no returns on they items as they worked there. They should know whether there I work out or not so she's covered on that point, which is who did you buy these from and she gives the name of another employ which is frankly hard to pronounce. So Jane is ok. We will look into it later. Genomics phone call
right after Jane a leaves. She calls this other employ. She has her number and she's. Did you l a pair of yoga pants to Brittany, Norwood and she says no, I didn't show okay and that's your now hey. I was supposed to check for any stolen items and I think we'd nailed her there we go now. Brittany gets hold of her later shortly thereafter, says I forgot my wallet and maybe Jana confronts her about pants. I had feeling that Brittany knew that she would be reported now. Brittany knows oh Jane. I found the pants and debt at at at at both. These women are in transit because they should know about Jane it was. She was very, very close to getting her two degrees shoes always involved in nonprofits Gino is really just the community leader tat, a person
was pursuing masters degrees in business. The ministries share with an emphasis and marketing and then a degree in communication. She was just two months away, but she was planning to move after she got those degrees to be near her boyfriend. I don't know of his power our private, but he let her know that he wanted to marry her so she's playing big changes in our life new career husband. And I knew area which was Seattle now Norwood was in transition to because she was pretty much burning bridges at this blue lemon athletic, a store. yeah. She was hoping to get a fitness instructor position at another place near by. Well, I imagine that when she understands that this woman Coworkers going to turn ran she's, probably not very happy, because if she gets fired first stolen merchandise, what are the chances she's actually gonna, start working that new job and if you'd
So now, what kind of wondering, if Brittany actually planned this by getting Jana to come back to the store to let her back in, could she knows what's gonna work here? Let's just bring it here in a little bit, but what work better if she is responsible for this, which he really just attacker in the store before they closed down That would work too, might be people coming in now, after closing, while the stores locked, but if they leave and have to come back in wash. Then they can say while the door was locked behind me and people shouldn't becoming in because it's closed. Let's talk about the trial she's charged in the death of her coworker. She gets it not defence attorney his last names would, and he has You decide how is going to approach this case, so he looking everything over and he gets a sense early,
on that there's no way he's going to be able to beat the evidence. So he has the info the task of letting them know we're Ebby, taking probably a course you're not fond of I we're going to have to own up to a vile encounter between these two women and when the first things he does is contacts doctor who specializes in head injuries head trauma. Get some things in the works to figure out how to sort of take the responsibility off of her so that she can either serve a short sentence or be eligible for parole, so his job as he sees it, is to minimize the effect of this trial on, rest of her life, protect her as much as you can write and John Mccarthy is. The prosecutor and the way he sees it is we ve got hurt now six ways from Sunday and he feels very content but he also understands the way the defence is probably going to it go after this case. As well
So they really need to their eyes across her tease and make sure that they can prove to a jury that Britain is responsible for the death of Jane Murray. The medical examiner Doktor Mayor Ripple. She documented the injuries to Dana and their horrific, but we cannot go over them because anyone the things out. Maybe they just got into a bad argument and she accidently killed her. That's now what happened, and we can say that yeah JANUS suffered At least three hundred and thirty one pummeling cutting instead having injuries and a hundred and fifty two of those were just to her head. Hundred and eight injuries, or so well. her hands and arms and those look like defensive injuries as though she
is holding up her hands and arms trying to deflect blows and cuts and everything else. They say that if you take the total number of injuries to her and if she was being struck once per second, the attack would have lasted about five and a half minutes, so that would be no break. Here's the tricky part between five, eight weapons were used, so they believe that if you calculated and attack every three seconds it would have lasted at least seventy minutes and she would have lived through most of this attack. She would have been aware of this attack from most of it. the weapons as they rebel. A fine were a ranch hammer. Screwdriver there was a buddhist statue that may have been involved. There was rope there were box. Matters there and She had injuries that they couldn't. Sir, where they came from AL shaped injuries and and other odd injuries. That day.
They from a heavy instrument, but they just couldn't tell what had made them so they brought in expert back with him to look over the scene. And then finding something called a merchandise peg and it's a metal bar that has sort of a flat parties sound of the wall, and then you can hang merchandise from it. The fine injury as far as they can tell was she was stabbed in debate first skull with a knife in that punctured her brain and killed her it's about to attack it lasted for a while. Now they also have witnesses and here's something that left me really uneasy and had lasting effects on the stores. While the people who worked at the apple store, they were preparing for the big sail, the big, view of their Ipad too, so they were there late that night and they had security. They heard shouting, they heard talking, they heard pleading
heard crashing items. They heard things next door and nobody felt the need to report it more detail to that. They only heard women female voices. No male voices and they re enable tat is say that one of them said why you doing this, oh god, please no pleading like that. Please listen to me. Please stop! Please stop so they heard the pleading and even when the security guards like I've heard this up before. I grew up in a bad part of town and nobody response. Nobody does right thing, you have seen that the social experiment shows where you know, most sky will behave like he's dying
sidewalk in one hundred people will step over them and nobody will call an ambulance or do anything Mccarthy. The prosecutor describes how the attack likely went down. He talks about the push bar on the back door and the back door has an alarm on it. So if you push through it sets off a back alarm. I'm sure people have heard this before there was blood on that, spar and they believe that Jane almost made it an almost set out that alarm almost, but she was dragged back into the store. The zip ties, because Britain heavens it I'd. They were able to show that she used her mouth to pull the zip tie closed and that zip ties were stored in area the store that they didn't think that the intruders would have known about this. There was a box of em, but they didn't think that they would have an obvious. It her hands were above her head in front of her, not zip tied behind her
They said she could easily just crawled to a phone. If she wanted to end yet she just laid there. So the defence attorney wanted to counter what was going on and he had to object, probably one hundred times, I'm sure, because Mccarthy would try to drop anything. He could and stuff that you know a judge would say, objection sustained. He betray everything he was putting everything out there and wood was saying that there were some things here that actually are in Britney's favor. He said that the vicious attack review that she had to have been out of her mind because this isn't normal. She has no history of any psychological issues, so I just didn't sense this, I think he said like five or six times she lost it. He tries that point home, and then he also talks about when she called to get Jane is number from a coworker that she's leaving a trail and that just didn't make sense
that actually fits in with Brittany story of saying that she needed to get a whole over, so she can bring her back to store, showing premeditation. That's where it can cause. Either way to bring em your perception of this, and so, if you're, nor would family, member, I'm sure, you're thinking it wasn't premeditated likes, said that Jane was already outside and she could be called back, and he also said that the fake robbery and that really ridiculous attempts to stage the scene were obvious that she wasn't capable of planning well. This isn't premeditated, she hadn't planned it out very well and she had lost it, but literally she hadn't of done. The bloody shoeprints em, the blood in JANUS car she provocateur gotten away with it. I think the moving of the car is the one thing that really got
SK years, because if you were in a moving car and you were blocks away, you could have kept driving her sure they you are, but now you can go to the police. Don't miss new limited series on embassy the thing about PAM she's, a friend and tell the end when a straightforward murder case takes a series of chilling, unexpected twists and turns it expires. one woman's manipulative and diabolical scheme starring tutor I'm Academy award whenever Nasal Augur, Judy Greer in Josh Demo riveting. Story is based on one of the most compelling true crime. Sagas ever told on the iconic newsmagazine Dateline catch new episodes thing about pair Tuesdays on embassy, now that the defence did have one when the phone call from China to the coworker, describing the stolen items
Britney's bag. They were allowed to bring that into trial. That phone call because they said it was hearsay and they weren't. To bring in the witness the co worker who talk to China about the report at the stolen property, one when on the d, inside, so they got it there by the co prosecutor, era's Mary Beth errors. I showed up saying your name right but see. Would let the jury now that the reason why the car was moved because brainy doesn't have a explanation why the intruders want it moved by merriment, air says. Well. The boss lived across the street if she looked out and saw Jane, is
are out there at eleven twelve one in the morning. You can bet she'd be very worried. She might come investigate, she would come investigate. Would she gets there too soon? Well, maybe the stories blown so have to move the car so that there is some time before she discovered the jury takes in our eye. It was less than an hour how right about an hour. But it's funny the person that sort of lead the jury that was asking them. You know, let's just take a an initial vote, who thinks that she's guilty of first degree everybody raise their hand. So then he says will play devils advocate, let's go through and try to come up with some things to see what in less than the charge to second degree or something else, and they start to talk over some things and then they
start looking at each other like this is preposterous that they really don't. They just see nothing in her favour. It appears that she premeditated the attack and even if she hold her coworker back to letter into the store to get her Walter purse. it was a you know, I'm a freak attack. I dont think the attack took seventeen minutes, I think the attack took a lot longer at any point. She could have stopped not even seventeen minutes of torture and brutality. It could have been up to an hour or two of brutality here and then to turn around and cover the scene. seal evidence, the even if you don't think the attack was premeditated. Everything else was the other. Scared rise at point home about how going for the different weapons in the room, and
proceed to attack more that she had many opportunities to stop. They talk to how she revelled in the Gore. Is she just didn't, stop she kept going. I think they where the opinion that she had ambushed China that she has struck her in the head and then Jane. It instinctively grab had there and blood came away and then she fell towards like a wall, and she left a print They believe that, for the initial attack happened and then it just got worse from there. There was blood on a buddhist statue like how wrong is that a deed that's supposed to symbolise then and love. It is so Whole store is supposed to symbolise these love and togetherness. So we talked about how the trial did not go well for her enough right. You who would
back to, but I did see some online supporters for Brittany one can have on my right. I guess so. When it comes to the sentencing, phase the prosecutor would have only a normally gotten one person to get up and talk. Maybe somebody represent the Marie family, but he asks for, I think, nine, eight or nine people to get up and something like that. He wants her family be able to have their say they get up and have their say drum up as much sympathy as they can they need it because he really wants the book thrown at Brittany. Jane is father, gets up and he talks about how she wasn't just a daughter. She was one of his for best friends this guide loved his family and I think what is referring to his wife, his two sons and Jana, the mother, complete
destroyed. She couldn't even the throw away a diet soda can that was found in her place anyway, so the defence has Britney's, family came up and talk, and their goal is to let people know that this Brittany isn't one their familiar with that they they don't understand it. But they don't want people to think This one night defines her and that she could be rehabilitated or that she could become a better person. She just needs to be given the opportunity and they feel the only opportunity for her as if she has a glimmer of hope in that glimmer of hope is the possibility of parole at some point and that if she doesn't have that glimmer of hope that shoe have despair, and that she'll get worse worse and lose her. Does somebody that attack somebody deserve parole, possibly, but
somebody that attack somebody brutally and tortures them and then attempts cover up the entire crime. Do they deserve pearl? Well, let's hear it. Brittany, ass, say before the judge speaks. And she says for the Murray family. What do I say when your daughter's gone and I'm the one convicted ever murder? I I say they won't take the pain away over the loss of Jana. She said she Deeply sorry. She said I hope The merry family someday you'll be able to find forgiveness in your heart. I am truly sorry, but of course, the prosecutor and Jane is found There are of one mind on this: they believe that she's just trying to get parole and that say and do whatever it takes to make that happen. Now the judge even starts off sounding sympathetic.
He said I am exceedingly reluctant to grant you even the slightest chance. doing this to another member of the community, and this is to judge Robert, a green burg, at that point. Everybody knows she's in trouble, he said on several different levels. This case exemplified the worst of human behaviour. He actually attacks the people the apple store here. He talks about the callous indifference of the people who worked at the apple store. Who heard this happening and didn't do a blessing thing He said most of us: can we shake our heads in amazement, wonderment and discussed, and then here's apart that really chilled. May he started pounding his fist. He was looking
Tells Airy said while he was considering your sentence, he repeated this action three hundred and thirty times, and it took him eight minutes to do that in an attempt to gauge how long the attack took and as we said, that's just once per second, that's is doing it constant or about once a second so he's letting her. No, he was really taking in how all went down before he decided on a sentence for her and he said after every blow you had a chance to think about what you were doing. Do you. Talking about when she was covering up the crime. He said that she was devious in control totally on top of the situation said, while you try Lie to get out of what you have done, he said your wife hell of a liar MA am. and he said anybody who could commit such a crime said very little chance of being. Rehabilitated no parole, yeah no parole,
I should say that Jane has a couple of brothers and one of them was active mail Terry, and he was in a rock when he got there. who's that he needed to go home. The sad thing is apt. This all went down. He would go back to Iraq and there will be a package waiting forum from China and she Had written this cute little note about how certain things are right unless they're together, so she had ship. And dip, and she had a little little cute list of things and the last one was you and me she's told to stay safe and hope to see him soon. The prosecutor was really happy with the sentencing. He said that Miss Norwood will die in jail. Those were his words. So, let's talk about this, I mean we sort. I have an idea of what, if she is an impulsive person, like you said,
We could see how maybe she did lose it, but may be lost her temper right there and had to protect this job that she had coming up. But what do you think is, at the hall all this, how a person who made it to age twenty eight before committing such a murder, how this? How this would happen, I mean she has had a pattern of theft, but doesn't peer to have a pattern of violent crime. So she got this far are. I think that she had a lot of things. You know the more or some one has to lose the more they're gonna fight for so I think she was. Waiting for this new position, she had all these things going for her in Jane. I was going to get in the way of that Maybe it started out as I'm going to scare you. So you don't. You know. Report me
and got away from her, or maybe it was I'm planning this whole thing and I'm going to kill you I mean I could see that, but I don't think she lost it. I think she planned it either way, I'm not sure of one of the things I did to prepare for the episode was theirs a book by Dan Morse, it's a complete run down. Story from beginning to end and has a lot of details that can't readily find online and his book is the yoga store murder. I get the sense from his book that she'd always been able to talk her way or evade trouble when she's still from other people in this situation. She knew this was going to have a huge detriment to her life because at the time I'm. They couldn't bring this up in the trial, but they did during the post conviction they brought it up, but she had been visiting,
of sugar, daddy websites and she had a fair card that was Bided by a nonprofit group so she was getting money from men being with them. She was highly and at her, life was a very good spot now looked all right from the surface, because Britain was very fit. I had a great smile came from a great family and she was about to get another job all behind the scenes. She wasn't sleeping very much. She was trying to act of socially really by the scene. She was spiralling out of control and I think I'd like anything else. You put people right situation. Maybe they're psychopath side comes out, because if you look at how much violence was perpetrated upon James Murray, its clear that this woman letter thing out at that point we this was. This was a very long long attack like you said. I agree with that and her attempts to cover it up mean that she was why
our their life. She wanted sympathy, and the new job she wanted more money. She felt like this was chance to move on and move up, but of course it didn't work out that way. Slight update to this whole case, she's fighting for a retrial. She says that she was not read her Miranda rights and she says that the people The witnesses during a trial were deemed experts and she says they're, not experts, so she's trying to get a retrial with singing a lesser sentence because she decided to go talk to the police and they didn't read her. Her Miranda Rights, because at that point she was not under arrest, and she says that the police officers in the investigators were experts, so therefore they shouldn't have testified at her trial. That's just insane to me see that working to well, because the defences Ernie brought up the fact that she was
read her Miranda rights for quite a while to the judge and the judge shouted down because he said it's her perception. The door was open. She was not cough, she could have got up and walked out she chose to stay. She chose to show up. Yes, she chose to show up. She chose to stay She was one talking to them right and despite sang time. Does she want to leave? She didn't leave. I think it happen where the once bet there's a point, also where she brings up the fact that she didn't know anything. No one's telling her anything near so you can tell there's a concern on her part I think she wanted to stay in their little bit to get as much information as she could now obvious. That starts to backfired they start showing her all this evidence, eventually that they had on her up to that point. She was anxious
she was concerned about what they knew and where they were going with the investigation. This was suggested to us by a listener and our marrow. When I first read about this, what stood out to me was how you could have to women who are looking to move out and up. If you just look at them, they seem like two great women. And yet they end up in this violent confrontation where one completely destroys the other one and then, as we suspect, in other cases, she he tries to stage the scene to make it look like she's a victim. But again, how does one person end up plainly butchered any other one is hardly scratched. Luckily, we can detect, as he's stuck with it, who were sensitive took their time and were, all to show pretty completely that she was responsible. So we don't have the mystery for some. It is pretty clear cut
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-15.