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early, secure and safe environment, but thing aren't always so simple explain so with that. What are we talking about tonight? night were talking about the May. Twenty. Ninth, two thousand twelve murderer Michel mark be in Tune county Kentucky. Now me EL was married to Dan, be amiss. There are two her daughters, Coralie Madeline and she'd work for the company, Thermo Fisher Scientific. She was a chart apartment. She managed their payroll so He would get an early on certain days to make sure that everyone would get paid she'd work. There for sixteen years at that point also where she met her husband, they met at a Christmas party. In nineteen, ninety nine and at all, began when Dan told her that he liked her and asked if she

hang out with him at the party, but when he was talking about this first date, described it as the worst state in the world, because he was so awkward but really smitten with any asked her out again, and she said yes, they got married, but a couple years later and according to Dan had a date night, every Monday, during their marriage, probably felt a little guilt further horrible first date, so he had to make up for it every Monday now over their marriage, like we said they had two children and they to be very happy and her daughter, Madeline says her mom was very sweet and carrying and She was always there to cheer them up and she always had a huge smile and was just a very outgoing and generous person. Let's talk about this state in question, may twenty nine twenty twelve?

she got up early that morning, kissed her husband go by went on to work what it's early Michel got to work at five. fifty three in the morning and again That day was a pay day, so she got there super early to make sure that all the accounting stuff was gonna be handled the firstly there the thing was wrong. That morning, add you sky, he was the patients manager at Thermal Fisher. He was approach that by another worker who told them that he thought he saw blood in the hallway side of Michel's office. He and another worker named David, duly, who had walked into his office, start looking around some more and it was add who found the blood while, according to David, duly who was cleaning, he said didn't see blood. When I cleaned earlier so Edward to tell the warehouse leader can Hicks about the blood now because of the blood at all.

Able to locate a body there was alive, bloodstain and it is in the hallway just, side of Michel's office and they found Michel's body but they could only see from like the knees down. now immediately Ed wood call nine one one, It was around round. Seven fifteen a m but shells body had been bound and gagged, essentially She had a plastic bag her head her hands were bound with packing tape. That's what David duly claims to have seen, but Ed got a much better look at the scene and he described. Michel has added then bounded the rest and the legs, There is also a poster over her body. This is kind of

potent because there were pictures taken by law enforcement and they dont referred. Exactly what Ed saw, meaning by the time. The pictures were taken Her legs were no longer bound and there no longer a poster on her now Erin. I will say this if somebody had just broken it to a place and attack somebody, was in their way like there are stealing money. I would expect this to be a very quick attack but he just clubbing them over the head or just doing something stabbing them or shooting them whatever it is and then taking off. I wouldn't expect this to take their time to bind, their hands behind them to put a bad, for their head like that, it seems a little. overkill. So this is an office building I also believe that the first thing that in

scares would surmises that this was in inside job. Someone from inside the building. Someone who worked at thermal Fisher Scientific must have done this somebody. Would it to have had access to the building that's assuming that building was very secure and we'll talk about that later. But why commit the crime there? Why not? Just take tat: the parking lot or on the way to work? If you know she's, target, why not take her out before she gets there but again this happened inside that building, so you would think the person who did this must have work there the scene is examined and tat is believed. That Michel Mark be worse struck over the head and dragged. Maybe what forty feet to wear her body was discovered thinks they even said that her arm may have been broken,

because she was dragged enduring this search of the crime scene. Find that a tape gun is missing, from one of the officers and they don't have a murder weapon at the scene. So they're going to assume that She might have been hit over the head repeatedly with a tape, and these aren't just you know, a little plastic thing is our big heavy object, with the teeth on and so it could be used as a weapon, but then I find it thing at the scene that they felt was a murder weapon, after Gregory Wanger, who is the matter bill examiner. He said- and this is later while he said she didn't die instantly, because the brain stem is intact. She had cuts to arrests here, scratches our feet and broken arms. Her skull was fractured and her brain is bruised.

now at around eight a m co Workers at her office called her husband, Dan and told them thing bad. It happened at work, so he drove right there and approached if ever it stall and asked about his wife now, of course the detective looking at the husband and going where were you, you know, cuz husbands, always the first aspect and detective told them that his wife was dead. Now Dan, had been at home, asleep with his daughters. So at that point who's there to cooperate his alibi. It's just- his word that I was at home. So this is their first suspect that they're looking at and Dan, agrees to go to the police station and take a polygraph because he is devastated by his wife's death and dumb the

He's dead interrogate him, they did give him a polygraph and they felt that his reaction has response has been five was in line with somebody who just lost their wife now, but we move on from Dan Mawkby. want to say that he would have made a very good suspect, but he collapse right at every step of the way chemist your house? Can we search your car whatever he gave them approval and He went immediately pretty much to go. Take that polygraph, but he did make a very good suspect, because, is not only was he Michel's husband, but he also worked at the same building that she did so he would have had access, but has he was so cooperative and because he will is very much a grieving husband. It just didn't feel like he was involved. So They try to do their due diligence with vetting him, but they're not done

just getting this crime, so their checking phone records on their checking security cameras and at that time There was a dozen, maybe thirteen people were. In this building. It's not the biggest building, but it's big enough that third, in people, wouldn't be working side by side. There be an all different areas, so having to try to och everyone's movements and find were people were at between six and seven a m and that's when they noticed that David, duly, who like a janitor, earn maintenance guy. He had on very clean clothes, so they thought If he's working in the warehouse, maybe he should have some dirt. Greece something on his clothing. They have a lot of truck drivers and shipments coming in and out, and they know that he be their early in the morning and they I checked the security, camera footage and

they saw that he left work that morning at six thirty a detail. If they dont know this company inside and out so their enter you and the other workers and when they find out, David duly, is wearing clean clothes, the sudden is very serious yes, well David had said when he was in you buy detect, is that he had gone home to make sure as wife JANET was ok. He said well is on the couch when I got home. So I guess she was ok, but over course of several interviews with David, his Tori changed keep in mind. As we know, the detectives out, sit there and ask questions. They sit there and ask since then they record the interviews and they write them down so there, information. That's not operating other information from the same person there interviewing. So this is a convoluted, don't quest

as is ok David, make decent suspect because he's there. But why he want to harm Michel Mawkby. as far as everyone knew day and Michel had very little interactions with each other Michel, New David's, wife,. she had very little to do with David. So we're looking at this and thinking what would his motive be. So just there were clear in the first interview, David doesn't say anything about going home, but by the second interview he admits to going home and the detectives have footage showing that he left The other thing they find out is they check the time carts and too are missing from that day, David Julie's and his wife JANET's. So of course, They get a search warrant Justin. They want to look through his apartment and his truck too. They find anything.

nothing in his truck Anders nothing at his apartment. Now, as we all know, just because you do a search just because, law enforcement has looked around. it doesn't mean that nothing's there, but It does mean that you can't use any evidence against them, saying you found evidence or you found blood or anything. So they find nothing tying him too. This case, except for his. discrepancies in whether or not he left the office building that day and why he left the office building David, Lee becomes the suspect here, just because of it changing story as well as the fact that other employees have stories. Joseph Seeger, he worked they're more Fisher scientific, he told the police said David approached him small talk. He found this. because they He never really communicated before and before David laughed

were you walked away. He said I'm going home because I rip my pants David, denied this earlier and then said he I went the check on my wife- they of course you again and after some time they buy out what they believe to be the murder weapon, not thee, murder weapon, but the type of in permit used to club machine over the head, which was in industrial tape, gun they set it on the able and that's when David, duly said that he didn't want to talk with them anymore. So Tom September, twenty seven twenty twelve they and stop arresting him. They feel like they have enough to move word with this case. Detective Bruce Mick is the one you showed him the tape gun and be because of the look that he saw, it its eyes. That's what prompted the arrest a few hours later of David, duly for the murder of Michel Mawkby.

This is a what would you call it a hill of circumstantial evidence, not a mountain, but a hill. When you say yeah, there's not much here. You have a woman he's found dead, murdered and a man who happened to leave building at the same time and has two different excuse. of why he left the building other than that any one else You have here. What are we supposed to think? We have Security. Camera footage that morning she pretty much everyone, that's entered and left the building. We don't see any some that morning, some random serial killer coming in and have any one reporting that they heard thing going on in that area in duly was pretty much the guy in that area. So this is

ultimately, there only suspect and they're going with it, but it's not gonna be an easy case in the fall fourteen. This is just a couple of years later, the poor securing gets to present their case of how and why David duly murdered, Michel Mawkby their case and what they present. As the motive is that Michel showed up to work and surprise David, while he was breaking in breaking in, because he wanted access to those time carts. Now they had information because of their investigation? That David duly was tripled. Dipping he was modifying both his and his wife's JANET's time cards so that they would get paid even when they weren't working days paid hourly he was an outside contractor. His wife, JANET was a salary employ so because the gig was up here. silenced Michelle

he's the one that's in nature or accounting. If you will, who catching him to this fraud, allegedly, but again, I'm thinking wow This seems like overkill, especially with binding the hands and putting a bag over head for what appears to be a theft charge, but we know people get more for far less on a daily basis, while this would be a huge problem for both David and his wife JANET because they both worked at this company. So if there are not only fire but prosecuted, that's a hell of a thing to go through, and maybe he thought, because criminals often think is that he was just smart enough to tee gout, Michel and then business as usual. After all, you know when Ed you,

guys walking around that morning, trying to fear what's going on, seeing if there's an injured, employ, etc. Here, showing up to talk to add and walk with him. How convenient right, So this is how the prosecution is painting. This is their saying that David was begun, this whole thing and he killed Michel in order to get away with essentially robbery you go into, the break room and you blew up the microwave you leave quietly and you go find somebody else and go. Do you smell something funny, and then you let them discover the blown up, microwave or the murder, and now look like you're, discovering it along with them. That's the prosecutors trying to convey here. The prosecution does have some problems here because of the lack of physical evidence they dont have fingerprints I mean they're saving DNA, anything now the way they get around this? Is they tell the Jew

that this is the custodian. He had access to cleaning products, the plastic bags, you name it, so he could kill this woman and then he could. up and he got back everything that he wanted to get rid of, including the time cards. But it's really interesting that only David's and JANET's time cards, missing. So that's another thing that looks pretty damning. Take a moment to get a word from our sponsor zip recruiter. According to Forbes, gems, Nell, salons, hotels, mom and pop stores and more are set, epic hiring spree in the coming months to meet the pent up demand of all these services. All of these businesses reopening means that millions of jobs will need to be filled. So where do all these businesses turned to fill these roles fast? Zapruder! That's right! Now! You can try recruiter for free zipper, could dot com, Slash, Jen? Why, when you posted jobs, hypocrites They send your job to over one hundred top jobs sites, giving you access to their network of over a million job seekers, zip recruiters matching text.

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than traditional offline therapy, and financial aid is available better help. Once you start living a happier live today. Visit better help, dot com, slash gin, why that's better eighty LP, dot com and joined the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experience professional. In fact, so many people been using better help that there are recruiting additional therapists enough These states special offer for generation why listeners get ten percent off your first month, using better help dot com, Slash Jen? Why there's not much to say about David Defence here, except for the fact that there is this question about ripping is pay ass! Well was he. In some way from this attack. He, the reason he ripped his pants is because his wife has hearing problems. So when he went to talk to her, she saw a pair of ripped pants and their apartment. And that's why she told detectives that he had ripped his pants now, keep in mind

His story had changed our a number of times. So the fact that he's trying to figure out how to explain these rip pants or why his wife would have said he had ripped pants is beyond me as you know it seems like he's to answer one question in it. Several more. So all I can say is this jerry was not imply with David and felt like the persecution was making a lot more sense when you say the absolute there was very little defence and we'll say that, because it his lack of defence, I felt it was somewhat of an unfair trial because like, as you said, there is very little circumstantial evidence is not a mountain, but the they convey. This is to people why into a room ones murdered one walks out well, use your common sense? This is the man that did it. I think many people can understand that and agree with that. I'm not saying

that's the answer, but it kind of vague sense now is that just David really didn't have much of a defence. That's interesting, because, despite him being sentenced to life in prison plus five years in November of twenty forty and that was not the final say on this case, because some information delight later on, which suggested that there was something that the defence could have used to try and defend David duly, but didn't get a chance. the best defence is a good office and pointing the finger at another suspect is a great way, to cause reasonable doubt, and I'm not In this term myself, if you go read about this case, its deep ran, dude theory and they found on security, camera footage a random dude, walking up to the doors and kind of walking around the building and that evidence

was withheld from his original defence attorneys inside the defence. Never able to bring this to lie and, as we all know, that its scope, a tory evidence, but the problem here is it. This is probably gonna, be the first time you you hear me, take the side of prosecutors, it's hard to figure out what would be exculpatory, what isn't an on paper, you could say well, some random dude was law. king around the building, that obviously a scope, a tory that you obviously need to hand over to the defence, but that footage was from eight eleven p m the night before she was murdered, probably at around six thirty, a m do we assume that everyone that was around building the day before is a suspect and, like we said, there's

truck drivers coming and going all the time so that sir, it is probably a pretty common occurrence. a truck driver comes up office, disclosed they walk up to nor tried the door no one's home and they leave. I dont know if would have considered here, in this over to the defence myself, because like believe this was the day before if it was up in the morning somebody's lurking around yeah, you need and that over, but ten hours prior to the murder. I think it's a little grey and that Definitely a sticking point for the defence, but that's not what really turns this whole case on its head. Is it well? I wanted talk about this? The more because one thing that this would have done? the defence is planted it in their mind that they could point the finger away from David. Duly, I know,

it seems ridiculous. They should just automatically try and do that from the gecko, but that's not really what happened in the first trial. So if they had had this info sure they had this footage, then that may have occurred to them and maybe he would have had a better defence. I don't know But the only reason we know about this footage. Our reason this retrial happens is because of a man by the name of Nicholas Rambler, who used to work for the boom counted Commonwealth attorney's office. I think he had had an issue with the Lee prosecutor and the lead detective. The had prosecutor was Linda, tally. Psmith unfairly detective was Bruce Mcbay how he's the one accusing these two of highly Evidence of lying so is Brady violation. He also had some drive that beyond just footage, had emails between the lead, detective, Emily

a secure and he thought this is damning evidence that, there are somehow colluding to take David duly down there was also allegation? that the lead detective Mcveigh was having sexual relations with the prosecutor. Wendy Tally Smith now that I'd, be a conflict of interest that is complete. the unprofessional, but does that mean They were framing somebody in trying to railroad a suspect it's a hard one to make the connection with you know when you down to it. It's better to do things again, you to be able to show that you gave the defendant a fair trial this leads to a twenty sixteen hearing day lawyers, are requesting extended time, to review all the evidence and the court needed review all the evidence and determine what

it had to be handed over and what kind of misconduct had been going on on this determines whether the retreat the necessary or not, but the lead process Peter in the lead, detective. Well yeah. This didn't look good and since a retrial is where this is headed, the prosecutors are replaced Sean cancer and J Michael Brown, and I think this really goes to show that the people there in charge, the state prosecutor, the detectives- you really have to keep your nose clean because all your behavior is under a microscope too. But this is what going to trigger a retrial because a job just looking at how this and just saying this is a mess and it's enough of a question that this I deserves to be tried again and this here that we have talked about was actually started by the content

the office of the attorney general. This isn't something that the defence moved on? it's almost like they're trying to take responsibility here, which is a good thing now One of the situation that occurred was that the prosecutor Tally Psmith. Aren't that Mcveigh, install two detectives lied to her about the contents of the surveillance tape. Like you said it, this tape, concerned. Something happening what eight eleven p m the evening before. So she, was fearful that this could ruin the prosecutions case, because Is this enough reasonable doubt she didn't really want to take the chance right and she also ended up acknowledging that Bruce MC phase and plaintive file had been sanitized. There's some idea here a suggestion that Mcveigh a reputation for manipulating the recordings that were done.

during interrogations so that he could get incriminating statements and make them clear for We want, I'm sure this, the only damning information, though about detective Mcveigh. They so discovered. he was a member of the k, K, K and had before Racists gets at some of those meetings well now, Some they talk about so much after taking a plunge, but he tries it and himself. He said that he didn't report the video to the prom. skater? Because he didn't believe the random dude was the killer and here I am agreeing with him, but now we find out the guy's having an affair with prosecutor is member of that k, K and likes to scrub or sanitize, police reports is just a complete and utter disaster of a person.

His second attorney was the Denison and she's, the one that's pointing out you dont really. any evidence against David, duly. You have a theory and that that, but your prosecutor and your lead detective are dirty essentially so she's definitely pushing the court for this. Trial and she's even brings forward Chris who was the first offence attorney for David duly, and he testified that he never saw this video again this is just the court doing its due diligence, making sure that as they go evidence that it's going to need to adjust action now we so mentioned that this building should be secure, but was it there was a ladder that you could use access, the roof and from the roof you could get into the building because Sometimes those doors were unlocked

and we do know that people will enter a building and away for hours before they attack someone. Maybe is more significant than they let on that random dude. they find a man named Alvin Reynolds, defies that he was that this office building on the twenty eighth, but he didn't leave his truck until the morning of the twenty nineth, he said that Joe Sigurd, who was the employee at the building, welcome up at around five, a m and told, that someone had been killed and that he left the thermal Fisher at around six eight him. Now that kind of throws a little bit of the ranch, the timeline. So why is this so but he miss remembering or this definitely a problem with the case and the police and prosecutors theory. It's very bizarre as there is no way that Michelle,

b was dead at that time, because she didn't clock in until Those are two six a m, so there is very much a strange story and it makes the detective look bad detective stuff oh he's, the one who is saying that Reynolds was the random dude seen moving around the building and he would want it to be that way because that means that just a truck driver and keep checking out the building, but then leaving so this is some that is kind of left hanging, but either way judge strand in MID. If twenty seventeen orders and trial and that try I'll began February twentieth of twenty eight now prosecutors. Opening statement is David, duly was trip having, with his time cards Julio paid hourly and his wife, JANET was paid salary David. Would clock JANET and do her work as well as his, so they both get a paycheck Michel found

about this and confronted him on that day, she had arrived at five. Fifty three, a m on the twenty, ninth and her body, is found no less than ninety minutes later thirty and it's after Michel's death duly was seen on security cameras leaving the building. He never told Please, he laughed during his first interviews with me his story changed now is defence attorney Devon he has a lot to say right. A Denison argued that Dooley did not have a for murder. Yes, he falls it is time cards, but the motor was because he was robbing company Deanna Dennis and argued that there were other people with motives. Tat kills well, so you can't just look at David Duel. Since there is no supporting physical evidence. One of the first pillar targeted in this theory

that Dan Mawkby could have murdered his wife because he had several life insurance policies totalling one million dollars and keen his wife rent debt about sixty five thousand dollars. So with these insurance policies, he could easily pay off that debt. Sheep suggested that he could have had someone kill his wife That's why there's no evidence of him being at the building since there's? No, physical evidence and no murder weapon. You can't really tired Crime to a person the way that the prosecution would like to say they have. They were saying they have financial, apples. Maybe there are other troubles there as well. The defence pointed out after Michel Mock bees, murder Dan collected Sir insurance policies and Dan, had trouble accounting for all of the spending that he was doing. They know that but some of the money into accounts for his children, but

some of this testimony seems to indicate that he couldn't even remember all of the people that he gave money too. So it's kind of suspicious in that way to like paying someone thousands of dollars. But you don't amber? Why it's a wave I mean to say you can't just pointed David duly there are other people here. You should look at the defence was not allowed by the court to use the letters and tax between prosecutor, too Smith and Detective Mcveigh, but they were allowed use that security. Video- remember, that's, what's got them that retrial, essentially, so even There are lobbyists as video and they can show it. They have tended to focus on Denmark B and Joe Seeger. Here is an interesting thing now the defence had their own investigators, they determined that at eight o nine in the morning, the exact time that Dan Mock be received. Call about Michel's death. He scrubbed his computer of all deleted files.

Course. The prosecutors now having you go on the defensive for Gan Michel's husband, saying was impossible for him to have killed Michel because of the time limits it would have been imposed. Oh for him to have gotten their. But again we, the theory that he could have hired somebody to kill his wife prosecutor just doubles down on they had hundreds of pieces of evidence to prove David was we suspect, but again hundreds pieces of evidence a little bit of an exaggeration, so the doors to Michel's office had gouges like ass. If some had tried a pride them open, they'd a screwdriver and David's janitors closet that appeared to match the prime on the office door duly my hand

attempted to break into her office to steal the time cards. The prosecutors argued that his work boots were never found now his defence attorney counter, that the boots were in his closet. All along and David broke the rules at work and didn't wear the required steel toad boots, so meaning you're getting your facts mixed up. He didn't have these boots your desk being his boots. Were there and again, this is very reminiscent of say, Michael Peterson Yes, you dont have a murder, weapon and you're getting facts wrong about the person your accusing John Hack, the prosecutor really tries to get rid of any idea that he was worried about his wife that morning and he said It was concerned he would have called her more than once. He said when David went home, he went home to change clothes and get rid of evidence. He wasn't acting on his wife there, painting

picture of David and JANET Work, meeting this crime of robbery their robbing the company by triple dipping, so they were kind of in Cahoots together. They're not suggesting that they were in cahoots on this matter, because the way they are up their theory. Is that Michel Mawkby, Surprise David? He was trying to break in that morning into her office. Now there was a big misstep by the police here. Detective bill Cochrane testified that the police, threw out the plastic bag that had been found out Michel's head because it had to much ballade on it mistake because if you run nay tests on that bag. They might have discovered if the perpetrator had left any blood or dna, but of course they didn't have the bag so

messed up there. Now there were performing dna tests on these items that were sent to the lab dna. Both Dan and David, could not be excluded. Shit said, items from Dan David and Joseph Sigurd, she also tested Michel's, shirt and genes and the tape around her wrists. Essentially, there wasn't enough dna present too. fluid any of these people so dance dna is expected to be on Michel because he's her husband and they lived together. Although wouldn't expect David's dna to be honor. But again can exclude, I'm so he's still a possibility. Another thing They hammer home here is that the plan bag that was around Michel's head was believed to have come from the trash can in the woman's restroom Juliet,

the custodian. So it is possible that his dna could have been on the plastic bag, and this is an argument between the prosecutor and defence. The plastic bag was used its from there duly had access to plastic bags had access to this one. So, of course, he's the man that did where the defence is saying hey. He is the janitor, but anyone could have come in and used a plastic bag a crime of opportunity also when it comes to the murder weapon, they don't have. One the defences making an argument that is passed, hammer, something else was used, whereas the prosecutor, In saying no the tape gun was used. This is only meaningful because if it a stranger and outside person that used another instrument, would show that it wasn't duly, whereas if it's

he's gone, that's missing, then that's more crime of opportunity and it was duly, but you can see That these arguments contradict each other every step of the way when it comes to a plastic bag or murder. Weapon and A s worker at Jaska testified about finding Michel's body his description does not match the crimes in and like I said, it includes the fact that Michel's legs were bound with tape. And that there was a poster our body and that he saw a pair of her shoes on for outside the door, but the crimes he photos show that her shoes are inside a restaurant, take out bag her Gregory Wanger, the medical examiner, but That Michel was struck by two different weapons. When he was shown in industrial tape gunning court, he said that could have caused the entries you want to catch live taping generation. Why now your chance, in partnership with NBC

our listeners, can attend an exclusive screening of the new law. it series the thing about pan plus recording of the podcast, serious stars to Time Academy, award winner, Renate Weber, Judy Greer and Josh Demo and is based on the riveting story of one of them a compelling true crime, sagas ever told on Dateline, it's about a straightforward murder case, that takes a series of chilling unexpected twists and turns exposing one woman's, manipulative and diabolical scheme. Come join us As we watch a sneak peak of the thing about PAM and unpack the details of this unbelievable case March, seven at the noise house, in LOS Angeles, go to the thing about PAM screening, dot com to RSVP for the event that the thing about PAM screening, dot, com and mock be, was called to testify. On March, first, twenty nineteen He gave an account and said that he

the later Shift Michel, he was off work on May twenty ninth and he said on the day of her murder. got a call from employ down Amy, they tried calling Michel and others revisers, but no one answered his calls, so he called my one one and that's when he found out that there was an incident. He drove to tee officious. Like you described earlier and found out about his wife's murder. Then he had to talk about the money that he had withdrawn. From the life insurance policies that are paid out. He took out for a thousand dollars in cash he uses money for his daughters and to give to family members who needed money. He also to losing a hundred thousand dollars of this money in a failed business venture and said he owed the cemetery. A thousand dollars for Michel's grave- and here is the part that had mentioned earlier after me, his death, he paid ten. thousand dollars to a friend Chris Black, who was also off work on May twenty ninth and

He said he gave the money to Chris because his If Marta asked for money here, they were about to, their house, but when he was talking about this he didn't seem to act like, really knew or recalled this information. It's like he didn't really remembered giving this made a caress and who now is maybe it's because of the shocking incident that happen. You know, maybe the death of his wife kind of overshadows everything but of course the defence is trying to spend this as you like, Stop this money. You these insurance pay out and you, If somebody a large sum money me be. It was because you, that person to murder, your wife. Why don't I? they spoke out their way, but if in our, if he can't quite remember and Chris Black all

had access to the building and he was off work that day. Let's be clear, there was no evidence of either her husband or Chris Black being the building that day there was no evidence. The phone records the security cameras, nothing so This is all suspicion. This is all just allegations, nothing backing it up. I had said that the debt and try to point a suspicious finger at Joseph Sigurd as well. He work that day. he's the one that supposedly too Alvin Reynolds, the truck driver that someone had been murdered. An outer Reynolds didn't stay too much longer. He testify that Michel clocked in and he saw to do so, and so that she seemed to be in a hurry. He also spoke David duly in the parking lot around seven long, break and duly told I have to go home because a rip, my pants but Joe,

Seeger Yez, some suspicious stuff about him. There are gaps in his time tracker that day, Now he claims there are gaps because he doesn't have to use the time tracker for the entire shift the where later his boss, essentially can hack said where I can't keep track of Joseph throughout the throughout the day. You know- I don't always know where he is and its specious, that he tells the tractor ever that someone was murdered. But now it seem like That conversation happen well before that murder, one last bit here just then about dating sites It's on the mock these home computer and I'm Michel's work computer. What happened with that? they find these this history. But there was no evidence that either Michel or Dan had sent messages or had logged into them. So it's like having ok

you better plenty of fish or something and your history, but you can't prove that they had accounts, but this is to be used as they were having marital problems, so that gives motive a computer expert Andrew CARE. Was talking about this evidence and also talked about the destruction the deleted files on democracies computer. It's interesting that this supposedly happen that morning, but the computer experts basely, says: there's nothing here, there's nothing important. He doesn't impressed with that accusation by the defence. So really Justin. It's it's a hill of evidence, there's the fact that their or God, on the doors timid office. This is kind of important because it fits with the theory that David duly was trying to break in two ways.

again modify his time card as well as his wife's time card, and that Michel Mock be interrupted. The break in she left early for work that day, so I dont think David duly if he, as the killer was expecting to see her at that time, that's why he was breaking in and we so the fact that he had access to everything he needed to clean up and will it get away with this, but I still think of those time cards and how the only ones that are missing our David duties and JANET duties but is that enough at sir? It's a hard question too to wrap your head around. My will say that his defence, this time around, was far better and had far more tools, then the first trial. So soon. because I think he was railroaded during that first trial. I think this and trial was far more fair but March Thirteenth, twenty nineteen,

seven hours of deliberation from the jury. How did they find David duly? They found him guilty of murder and he was sentenced to forty three years in prison on April. Eleventh, twenty nineteen. This happened as the jury recommended thirty eight years for murder and five four tampering with evidence. They said, if he's denied parole. He will be eighty eight when he can leave prison. serving eighty five percent of his sentence and fifteen percent of the tampering sentence, that's a little surprising to me I think it could have gone a lot of different ways, but ultimately her husband here we could say he had motive, but I feel like the only way to really show that he murdered his wife would have been if you found smoking gun, you know some sort communication where he had asked. Somebody ass to murder. His wife that wasn't there dealing

he could find reason doubt is. If you found evidence of somebody else, duly and Michel were really the only once in that area of the building, and it's hard to just say: well, of course, he did it because all the evidence points to not all the evidence does point to him. There is evidence that points other people and if he did it when he went home he did a great job cleaning up because it in find anything so I'm alive surprised, although I might think sky is guilty, not sure they would have proved beyond reasonable doubt to me. If I've been sitting on the jury, I think the jury all the information they had. Remember the prosecution got to give their theory. The defence gave their theories. They gave the throw spaghetti at the wall, as I call it and I think they came away with the most

likely scenario for what happened. I dont think the defence, despite their trying, were able to introduce doubt that David did this. After all, he was the one that was triple dipping at the company and, like you said the timelines fit where it was basically David and Michel in that area? At the time it's really simple math, I think for people you could say we have dna, but the police got rid of. Governance that might have shown that that's a big misstep. So this isn't the most satisfying conclusion, but I think for the market. Family and their relatives. This is justice for them down It was quite emotional during this sentencing also earn on August. Twenty first, twenty eighteen, David, duly what

indicted on charges of use of a minor and sexual performance and possession of matter portraying a sexual performance by a minor he wouldn't pleading guilt. Did you two counts of unlawful transaction with a minor in the second degree, so he received two five. Your senses for possession and creating child pornography or the charges these sentences will be served at the same time as his murder sense. So it's not that just because he's guilty of one thing he be guilty of another thing, but again this guy David, duly is kind of a disgusting human being and You were to say, who makes it or suspect, hear him or Michel monkeys, husband, definitely and to point the finger at David Dooley David Julie, maintains his innocence on February. Eighteen,

only twenty one, the Kentucky Supreme Court denied his appeal. Now courting two reports. His attorneys were very confident that the Supreme Court would overturned the verdict, but that didn't happen once you are found guilty twice its pretty hard to get that reversed. I think, and Tom if they were able to find some connection. So smoking gun some piece of evidence that just completely exonerate that's what this case needs at this point, because otherwise David's the one that's been found guilty and he's the that's going to sit behind bars for the rest of his life, subscribe on Apple pie, cast Spotify or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering apt to listen, ad free

Everybody has something that they would give anything for end fortunately, there's people out there who will explain there's nothing that nothing from wondering comes a story about true I love you so much power you're gonna have to completely submit to me and give me your complete and utter obedience, and Far. Some people are willing to go to get what they want. I'm Stephanie Beatrice Twin flames: premiers on February, twenty on apple tat, on using or you can listen one week early and out free right now by subscribing to wondering plus an apple podcast or the wonder, yeah.