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By doing this, we are doing swell justin. Thank you awesome. Red, bull, riddle and mourning for me- and yes, recording this during the day, because this weekend we have our michigan meet up, that The time you hear this episode will have happened afternoon before

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our page page by going to patriotic dot com, ford, slash generation. Why so too? It's episode is a local one for us aaron. What are we talking about the murder kelsey smith, and I think this one is particularly troubling for people, because it happened at a time when we assume were safer. It happens early evening it was still considered. Dates basically, I mean the way people talk about, it did They consider this a almost like, daylight, kidnapping this summer would be kelsey was at a target store in overland park. She was looking for a guy for her boyfriend. They were celebrating six months together and that may not sound like very much time. people who are recent gradual. it's of high school but

They were pretty serious about each other. I think at eighteen. Six months is a long time. She just what she needed from the store and walked to her car. But the things the passenger side and then was walking around to the driver side when someone ran up to her and forced her to the car. Then she does Here's its. four days later, when her body is discovered, she had been raped and murdered. We kansas city based podcast, so overland park, not that all right. Just and now I've have worked there on many occasions, most my life, so I mean most the I t, tech jobs are in overland park. When I think of kansas city, I include oral impart kansas to independence Missouri. I just think of all that, as kansas city even know, I know

there are different cities, but to me they're all, but it up against each other. Kelsey an smith was born. a third nineteen. Eighty nine in overland part kansas her. Parents were gregg and missy and had three sisters and a brother. They were Stephanie linsey, dakota and zack, although they did address each other by these names. Stephanie was actually actually went by stevie Dakota went by cody, I like dakota kelsey. he had graduated from shawnee mission west high school on. May. Twenty fourth two thousand seven and that's the year that this case takes place. She was to attend kansas state a few months later and

her plan was to become a veterinarian. She also was really into marching banned and the college she chose had a strong, marching band department or programme going on, so that was part of her. Her future plans. She was very talented, was marching ban. She could play music instruments. She was very involved with lots of school activities. She also was an artist and she would draw pictures of pets for family members. passed away. She just had so many skills, so much going for her her personality was known to be very carefully and friendly. and she was very supportive of everyone she met in its sad that we learn so much about someone after their deceased but in

case. So many people came out to support her and her family. Even the time that she went missing too, even today be as she impacted so many people with her energy and her love. All the people came to support her came the search for her they're all referred to as kelsey army, and they really are kelsey had recently graduated from high school, and she went to a target located south of oak park mall on june. Second, two thousand seven to look for a gift for her boyfriend, so she's wandering around the target store and while she is there, someone notices her now calcium. lately unaware of this. As far as we know she go to check out with her items this person leave the store ahead of her and she pay by check

and then she heads out to her car. This is about seven ten p m, so she had only been in the store for about fifteen minutes or so multiple security camera angles show her inside the store and outside the store, yeah target in a big department chain. They have a lot of cameras on site. So there is a lie: video evidence of what was going on in the store with kelsey and this unknown Person is unknown, young male hauntingly when the camera footage from the parking, his analyze by target security They noticed some one moving quickly up to kelsey as she's attempting to get into our vehicle. This person gets in the vehicle with her now, and they look over all the footage. It see. To be the same person who had kind of bin talking her in the store. I saw that he had kind of followed her around

They also see that he came from a pickup truck in the parking lot, so they know what vehicle drives kelsey smith drove a nineteen. Eighty, seven buick regal, the two door model, so disappears: she's gone her family There are well aware that she's missing it because she wouldn't just leave and not tell them where she was. She was expected back. They know that she's, missing they're calling law foresman immediately? They report her miss and at midnight They also are trying to call the cell phone company to find the location of her phone. If you ve ever call yourself on company. With an issue or question about. I don't know your bill or yours. Service quality. You know that you're gonna be put through an automated hell, then get to somebody with a script. Who's not gonna, fix your problem now, just

Imagine if you're relying on this same system, this same process to get a minor issue resolved. But now you relying on it to find your daughter, it's impossible. They flyers to hand out to sea anybody had seen, kelsey and, of course, of life as MR name kelsey smith. They ever picture on it and where she was last seen what wearing she had been wearing a pink taint top black shorts kelsey was five. What six and about and twenty pounds with long brown, hair and brown eyes. Air really moving quickly The way I understand it was this family. was very much aware that if you have a loved one, has gone missing. The best to do is to get the word out fast, and you need to make public aware what's going on so this was

The media saying some girl disappeared. Now the family push this, they contacted the media the next day they had interviewed, set up to get the word over the new stations. They very much wanted to move quickly because if you don't find a person, is gone missing in the first twenty four to forty eight hours, the chance The fine them alive are reduced drastically and that's true, with pre much most crimes. Homicide kidnapped, in whatever you have a very short window. police have asked the media to spread the word about the suspect that scene on the target cameras and they have a decent image of him. This, Married couple is looking at this image and thinking in themselves that looks like our neighbour jack. They kind of laugh about it, like oh wow, what a similarity there does look like him, but their laugh

because they're like no way with jack, be a suspect in kidnapping case has jack's married, has a young child and is thoroughly liked amongst the neighbours, but it's after the description of this vehicle that the suspected walked away from, which is this seventies, chevy truck that they see to think wait a minute this isn't funny it all that that's probably jack and They contact law enforcement to let them know this guy, we know in our neighbourhood. We think that's the guy on the target cameras and there's too many coincidences they recognize him and it's the same truck. It would just be very unlikely any other way: now jack is actually twenty six year old, edwin Roy Paul jack is

nickname and that's how everyone in his neighborhood knew of him jack was married. He'd been married since the age of nineteen, or so anyhow, four year old son, one neighbour said he's a great guy He's help me out with my truck, Rita. I saw jack rhine around. His pay He had his son with them He just seem like a great guy now the police finally make some headway with these cell tower information, kelsey smith's idea. Occasion her cell phone she everything's gone. They don't have it but again has just said when someone goes missing, they try use the cell towers to find out where they were last before they the signal one. This ass the information. Finally, get back tells them that she was in a speech civic area and so they start searching and they get plenty of assistance to help search for her again,

The community really came out in support of this family, any the family needed they were getting and not only that, but they were getting letters pouring in from all over the country and one thing: I've interesting about this was as they read, a card or a letter, family member would initial it, so they would know they'd already read it and It also leave a note on their if they want to the family, no hey this one might get to you. This This will be very emotional for you so be prepared for that. They had found the pickup truck within two hours, but how long did it take them to find kelsey after they get the cell phone tower information once they re able to see were her cell phone had pink from? They found her within Forty five minutes! That's incredible! I wonder if they were able to get that the night of if it would have made it,

france when they located kelsey. She was in what amounts to be a depression in the ground. She was nude, she had belt around her neck, and there were these sticks. laid in a pattern over her that had been stripped of Yes, they knew right then and there they had a murder investigation on their hands from here on everything escalates pretty quickly. They move on edwin hall. They have neighbour identifying him. They have his truck. That's now in pounds the area in which her body was found was twenty miles east of the target where she was abducted, This location, where they found her, was a. Would it area your long? The lake? There was a couple that had been walking there that day and they saw a man, a young man coming out

of the wooded area with a blue duffel bag and going to a truck, and they described this truck, which the exact same truck that machine at target and they said in the back in the better the pick up we're a bunch of sticks that had been stripped. The leaves the police went around and tried to track were hall was either they can talk to they want to verify, use, cameras from different locations or witnesses. and they know that, just before five p m, he had eaten at a mexican restaurant and he left without paying and from there went to dealers and wandered around word has it that he was looking for a gift for his wife, elisa bad They say I had no money on him, so that may not have been true when that's coming from him really he entered the target.

before seven p m, so they can place him at the target. They know he was wandering around target and that he fixed added upon kelsey after he was standing by a jewelry counter at the time they hadn't caught him, but they put his picture and name out there and he contacted his lawyer and contacted police officers and said that he was going to turn himself in, but due to a scheduling issue with his lawyer, he would have to be later that day but he was willing to come in and the beginning, even up until after his arrest, he was declaring that he was not guilty of this. He said that he was at target. You can't deny that fact and that he did leave his truck there, but he had not

the do at this kidnapping or murder, and then he was very upset with the way the media had portrayed him and dug up all the things from his past and all the things they got wrong about him. Yet really strange that he disappears from target, but he leaves his truck there yeah. By does he forced a woman into her car and left with her, that's a pretty good explanation, especially when you have em on camera. But initially, he denies all of this and he even speaks to some media outlets over the phone from from jail always being held and declares his innocence, and he has support to his wife, Elisa completely support Why wouldn't she I mean she knows this person she's in love with him he's the father of a child. She know any better. She cannot fathom the fact that he would be capable of anything like this custom.

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second, like a large animal new regional series, the right one in new ever streaming. Now only honest at the time, the instigation actually goes very well. What I mean is, is they were able to collect, not just the footage that shows he definitely was with and around her but they also had dna evidence, and that includes here, short city war that day and that evening they found, dna in the zipper area, and they said it was like then one chance in two hundred and eighty billion that this case from anyone other than kelsey smith, They also found here dna in her car. They founded on the steering wheel and on part of the seat belt. That's one in five.

point three million chance, it was someone other than him. Pretty much got the right guy. There is no question about this on July, twenty third, two thousand eight per changes his plea, he pleads guilty to four different charges. and this is a plea agreement. He doesn't want to face the death penalty, which the prosecutor named Klein said he was going for, but he didn't want to die and he pled guilty to kidnapping raping sodomizing and murdering kelsey smith. This was a little on expect for the family in the courtroom, because He had initially entered a not guilty play. It was unexpected because this was supposed to be a change of venue hearing which is This was all over the news and his defence attorney was saying

hey. This is too hot here we need to move this somewhere else, but then he comes out and plead guilty to to all of these charges against him. Kelsey family we'll give their victim impact statements to him. He will end up weeping saying he sorry now, with this plea agreement, They are able to learn more details of what edwin hall did that day. Edward Hold the police that, while he was in target, he was standing by the jury counter any noticed. Kelsey he didn't know she was bad noticed her legs and he started following her around He said when he saw her face. He thought she was about twelve years old, so he's going for what he perceives as a child he used in Aragon to get her to comply. He put it up against the back of her head. They were in the vehicle, and sheep

probably assume that was a real gun, the medical examiner said that she could tell dad because of the number defensive wounds that kelsey smith sustained that she had fought for her life So, as I said earlier, his wife could not believe that he could possibly be involved with this situation. Well, do you think that's a good True, and I mean this guy had a little bit of a background on em. In fact, the very weak in the Ways of kelsey smith's murder. They brought charges against him for two counts of aggravated indecent liberties with a child he had sex with a fourteen year old girl. When he was twenty, three years old, the law, time that he was around this girl. He ended up over at her house and why for family members, punched him in the face He wouldn't be around her after that by these charges happened three or four years later,

he kind of as a record. Any has passed his path asked is he was adopted? the age of seven by the whole family by done carroll and die. Intentions as I'll says were too give him a loving home and to give them a bit future than he otherwise would have had he didn't have a family. Nineteen eighty four, when he was about eleven or twelve, he stood, his dad's nineteen, eighty four chevy van he was placed. Their supervision. A year later, he stole a tape recorder and twenty five dollars cash was placed under supervision. This is basically means he s disdain school. He can't stays he's being supervised. If he gets in any trouble they can escalate charges or do something more to him in, anti ninety six. He threatened his sister with a knife. He would plead no contest to this, but

the result of it would be that he would be removed from this foster family, the halls and he was placed in two different juvenile correctional facilities for the next four years: peace, aid from one in ninety seven, but was returned on june thirty, the variety ninety nine edwin hall, is formally discharged from. Serving in juvenile correctional facilities and its within a year of that that he gets married to elisa into them in two. a man sued edwin and his parents, so this is after he was removed from the foster family and didn't really. Nothing to do with them. A man sued stating that in ninety ninety five that when it hit him in the head with a baseball bat and that he was left with frequent terrible headaches because of it.

Time Edwin was about thirteen, and this victim jonas patent was eleven. This case with the baseball bat, this lt this was dismissed, but it was as a result of an out of court settlement, and that takes the two thousand for when he had sex on occasional with a fourteen year old girl. He would be charged in two. Thousand seven: for that, wasn't there another incident where he was harassing somebody on the street Yes, there was a woman named diane, mrs after it came out that edwin hall had been arrested but when she saw him, she recognized him as a person who had given her some trouble just six weeks before kelsey murder and she said she was walking about four blocks from that target. when someone was yelling at her, and turned? A look, and it was this add one hall she says who was running

to her and wanted to her that she had a nice, but so is, actually harassing her on the street and following her yeah. Ok Yes, he doesn't give up, he follows her around and then he shows up next to a wall that she's what, by and by wants to know if he's bothering her of course he is. She does her best to get away, but she doesn't contact police and I've stated before on our personal stories that when I was fifteen, an older man who worked for the detroit news is stalking me and I never contacted the police, even though this guy made me nervous, like I could, now. This was in a normal thing. This guy was probably dangerous and this case. I think she felt the same way this guy seems really dangerous to me. It's not a simple. She didn't feel like you. Just wanted to yell something at her to be obnoxious. She felt like

something more to this, it wasn't just a typical cat calling on the street, but how you that's why cat calling in and harassing women on the street feels like, regardless of whether or not you think It's any more or any less. How do you tell it's all bad? It's going to make. Somebody feel extremely uncomfortable, and here he's doing that retrospect. How do you know how bad it's gonna be? I In our view, a woman on the peripheral who said that a truck driver jumped of his cabin, followed her to her car. Just a compliment her when you think about it: it's creepy as hell and when you have somebody like this guy, who will end up, acting somebody later or the weird pet, Stalker you had is as teen. How do we tell the difference? between. Oh, that's, just a guy trying to be funny in this

somebody who's trying to abduct me and time you re, let speak Here, it's not ok any time for someone to come. Call at a woman walking by I guess The question is: how do you know when something like this should be reported? And how do you report it? I'm sure many women out their thing to themselves. The cops aren't going to care they'll, just a move on just move away from that person. Don't worry about it right there, technically, not breaking any laws by. I think there's something here where, if someone is sexually harassing you and they see, to be following you. I think that should be reported. I thank you did not worry so much about whether it will be taken seriously or not. There needs to be more reporting done in this regard because, as we see with this case and went home, I may not have been a guy who just happened to be in a target and noticed some one and became obsessed. This is

who may have been wandering around and looking for people looking for victims hunting. Why is he wandering around stores that evening? Why is he eating and from a restaurant Why is he harassing this diane woman? There be many other incidents that he was a part of, or if we look back at just said, he thought kelsey the child. So, if he's looking for a twelve year old and then we find out that he's had sex in the past with a fourteen year old, I would say this guy is definitely a danger to society and that this is a path This is not something he just started doing now. I'm not saying he necessarily had other murder victims, but I think this something that he's been working on he's been building up to this point and for those of you that remember my space. and when he had an account on myspace under the name jack. It's really creepy. If you

find the archive version of his page, because it looks I'm very, I would say, relevant information on their very questionable stuff. The account name was captain six six six howdy. and under latest news, it says: stay away from captain Howdy interests, are either small children and harming small animals, his favorite film. Is listed as a clockwork orange, his hobbes consumption of human flesh, and his favorite quote oliver the problems are a direct result of a lack of fleshly pain. Even though his wife was supporting him and weird ways. I think she knew that he was fully capable

of something like this, and even when the trial was starting up, she was what creating fake internet accounts to speak out against the media, in support of her husband. Well, it seems as though she was any view look over the different accounts. They all say the same thing, which is they don't have have proved this is all circumstantial. You know I'm going to believe that he is innocent, tell us proven otherwise and she was challenged, many I'm on the internet by other people who very much believed at when all was guilty and why The dna evidence came in and then he pled guilty a slam dunk and I can't find any postings by this person by elisa? We assume supporting him after that, although she did support him. She kept showing up and would visit him

The dna evidence comes out after because a prosecutor just releases all the evidence after he played guilty This is what I was going to use against him during trial. I didn't get a chance to really show you how guilty this guy is. But here's all the evidence against him, whereas we have among camera like we, why is there a a question at that point. I guess it's well cameras. hi daf it possibly could be some that look like him, but between the camera and his truck being at the target. I think it's pretty clear. Now I don't know I don't want. To go around accusing people of crimes they didn't commit or whatever, but the fact that they had so much evidence against the sky, and I I just wonder how he could come out and say not guilty how his wife could come out and said this, isn't him when he's had a troubled life and

sees done everything in her life right and then this scumbag comes along and does this and has supporters it just it infuriates me well, they say some people will have support, no matter what they ve done, and certainly seems like edwin hall. Has. The support of his wife, despite in a rapist and a murderer child rapist, the smith family, spoke to the media and to the court. They let everyone know where they stand with. the plea agreement with edwin pleading guilty, brings an end to the case at least legally, because now edward Can't he can't appeal is it's done her mother, missus smith, said it's all about her. And that was part of the reason for the plea, so we can get the focus off at when he doesn't matter. Kelsey matters her father, Gregg smith, said

today is not really a victory, but it is justice and justice isn't always fair. If it was fair, we'd get kelsey back for them. They say they are not moving on. They said you can't move on from the murder of your child. They said they move forward my things have happened since her murder. One other thing Is that happened? Was they created a foundation? The kelsey Psmith foundation and their aim is to educate young adults and how to avoid becoming victims. No, we ve talked in the past justin about rape culture and about how you can't victim blame by this family lost her daughter and for them there trying to bring resources together to educate people on why they can possibly help themselves and that being aware of your surroundings. What one of the ways is when you in a store or if your approach your car pay attention.

Fluxions, because you might catch some one walking upon you. It's being more aware, because if you can get a shout out if- Who can pay? brace yourself. Maybe you can save your own life, so these are just self protection methods and habits. that you can start using to pull fully prevent you from becoming victims. Is by someone who's looking to hurt. You knew somebody that apply bitter. They also are passing laws in the states across the nation and its called the kelsey Psmith act and it requires phone service providers to hand over location information for a person that could be adopted or and serious threat or harm it does not overstep its

sounds into cell phone data, texting or voice, or anything like that. It's simply location information and it does not state somebody who is threat to society. Only somebody that's in harm's way, the way I read it. So I think it's a well written law and they ve been promoting that and getting it passed because cell phone companies have the ability to give you this information. They have the technology and everything but, as I said before, the most of them are these big bloated, bureaucratic establishments that have, zero policy or procedures to do anything, and when you the hold of that customers wrap, they're, not gonna, have any authority to do anything for you. There supervisor, who is really just there to credit? your account when you get to angry with them that data have any say in in policy or procedure.

I always used to say: let's not let procedure get in the way of progress, because we need them. forward. We need a solution, but if we're so, if we're at hearing to procedure and policy to the point where we can't get anywhere where we can even find a victim. That's been kidnapped, I, what what kind of world is that- and I support the kelpie smith, that myself and I'm I'm not one to really support the government getting similar information, but the weights written in ports and ten. I like it. I am glad that it's it's being passed out there and hopefully it has helped. I that there they cited a few incidents where a man abducted a young boy and they were able to use the kelsey smith act to find the location of the and rescue young boy. I haven't

search the lot of the other cases that they site for this, but is like its already being used for good, and that makes me happy That's one thing that happens with families who have lost a loved one to a murderer. Is they asked themselves Can we do what can we pass we do now- and I know the smith- only has come out and had to support her friends, and say kelsey would want you to move forward to graduate from college to get married. There were a lot of things going on, because when you graduate school people get married. They go to college futures are right there before them has just said. So. A lot of her friends were talking about the deep Guarantees of me forward. When they lost such an important person alive. So Gregg smith, her father I mean is cleared Spain has not gone away. He said that kelsey woods

frequently tell him dad I'm going be famous before twenty one and. that thing is she sort of did become famous, but now for the reasons she would have imagined. Many people pointed out that add when at a young son he had four year old son who, by all accounts he spent a good the old time with and ass themselves. They ask other people what about his son? his son, is another victim of edwin hall and even solve kelsey family has said that they were about him dead. They know that because edwin halls actions that his son was for now that he won't his father and his life, he won't have that friendship that he had hopefully valve

family members that can step in and be better influences. That's all we can hope. This is better because nobody needs a father like edwin hall, Why just reminds me of when it came out that Dennis rater was opposed A decent dad And again, though, if he's a murderer and a rapist, then tat edward we will be given a life sentence with no possibility of parole, which I think is appropriate. like a wrap. This up by time about what calcium dad gregg talked about, which is is looking for justice, not revenge. All of us have thought about this. If we lost a loved one. What would we do if we knew who had done the crime who had murdered, are loved. One props. To this

this family because they handle this in a very admirable manner. They kept the folk on their daughter and they let the system do what it does and them knowing that hall will be locked up for the rest of his life. They can accept it because that's justice. And they didn't need revenge

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