« The Generation Why Podcast

Murder Of Ruth Pyne - 333

2019-06-30

May 27, 2011. Highland Township, Michigan. Bernie Pyne and his 10 year old daughter, Julia, returned home to discover Ruth Pyne murdered. The wife and mother, 51, was beaten and stabbed to death. Detectives first looked at Bernie but after the investigation was well under way, a new suspect emerged; 21 year old Jeffrey Pyne. By his own admission, he had been home right around the time that the crime likely occurred. But did Jeffrey really kill his mother? What would his motive have been? Police had been called to the family home in the past after Ruth had attacked her son. She had not been taking her prescription regularly to manage her bipolar disorder. Could things have escalated between the two of them once again? Or was someone else responsible for killing Ruth?

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I don't know better doing all right. Just how are you feeling? I'm? Ok, you know. Sometimes I don't give a good answer to that question, and then I added out you even asking me because I dislike and
people notice when you don't ask me- and it's not your fault, because you always ask me for sometimes I dont like my answer, so I just leave it all out, so sorry have thrown you under the bus errand. But you always asked how I'm doing why do these days, but early on, I used to just raw my eyes and wait for you to continue. I still roll my eyes no fees or minimums banking with capital. One is the easiest decision in history of decisions even easier than citing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast with no overdraft fees. Is it even a decision that banking re imagined what's in your wallet, term, supply see capital one dot, com, slash, bank capital, one in member of the icy price line it goes saying that we're all missing travel right now, but you know
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married to a man by the name of bernard run, her to him as Bernie, probably throughout the episode, the suspect that the police focused on now is The kind of person, you'd normally think, would be the person responsible Bernie and Ruth had two children at a sun Jeffrey pine. They also had Julia his younger sister. There is a huge span, a time I think close to twelve years between Julia and Jeffrey Jeffrey's. Obviously, the older brother and Julia's I dunno ten years oh there's something at the time of this incident. me, and ruth met in high school Bernie took a liking to her immediately. He said your beautiful. We need to go out. and she turned him down that such an original pickup line I mean come on. I want to turn him down to, while some people we think it. Some people like too nervous to ask peaches
lord it out so the what he wanted and she just think he was serious. I guess, but she warmed up to him. May twenty seventh two thousand and eleven highland township, michigan Bernie and his daughter julia, are returning home. Nothing seems very out of place, so they walk up and there's a door to the garage that they are entering from and the daughter. Julia tries opening the door and there's something blocking it and when she tries to push harder She notices, I guess, a bloody hand, kind of under the door kind of jamming it she's a little freaked out by this, and she runs back
Bernie goes over the door and looks in and finds ruth. His wife on the ground covered in blood she's been murdered. Bernie calls the police because his wife's been attacked murdered. Now there is some question here on what happened to her: it's probably not term and that she was murdered at quite this point. It's possible that she might have taken her own life. The reason why there is a question is because Ruth pine had been diagnosed with bipolar, severe depression.
I am kind of a whole litany of issues she had bouts where she would stop taking her prescriptions, so Bernie, not quite sure, but just from the wounds and the bloody sees. I think it's a little off that she's been murdered right. She was diagnosed with bipolar, with psychosis the best way to describe the way it affected Ruth was she was known, kind of hyper, and so she would move about rather quickly talk fast and She would also experienced things like she thought she was spied on. So she was very paranoid. At times I have a family member with this exact, diagnosis, the mania is, I dont want its unbearable, but he can
be very overwhelming. At times there are bouts of delusions where. They will try to explain a story to you. A simple story like going to the drive through at like talk about, and then it will warp into a gun, fight with drug dealers and being shot, and all these other thing than you know, none of its true, because the sitting there talking to you and there's not a bull, oh in them. So it's really sad to watch it and deal with it. But I understand exactly what she would: diagnosed with, and I know some sites out there will say by bringing up her mental ill,
the sword disorders. You are stigmatizing it and blaming the victim, but without talking about it, you don't have any context of where this story is going to go well, and we do need to talk about it a little bit because Bernie, he was very much in love with Ruth right from the start. They did face. Some challenges because of her condition. But in the months leading up to this, where Bernie felt, like they kind of turned a corner and made progress because he had a heart to heart with her, and he said I love, I do, but you need to be on your medications, because, when you're not on your medications, we have a lot of problems. We'll talk about some of the things that happened. While she was not taking your medications previous to her being found dead. She was bad, honor medications and Bernie said he felt like things were going very well. This is on the up and up right now, so
this is a little out of the ordinary, the police, the Investigators show up, they check out the garage Just the initial observation of ruth pine was she'd, been attacked, she'd been stabbed multiple times and bloodshed. There was a to buy for missing from the garage which is pretty much what they assume she was bludgeoned with. This is because Bernie says the two by four is missing. Now I dont know, if he's stuck to that story, ever since he said it, but supposedly he's the one that said it so all told cheapen struck seventeen times with what appears to be a two by four and stabbed in the throat around sixteen times.
I read a lot about her wounds and from what I came across. They actually state that she was stabbed first and that incapacitated her and then she was finished off with the two by four. Which just my own common sense would think it be the other way around? I don't know if the medical examiner can really show one way or the other, which one happened first, when they all happened at the same time. But to me, more sense. If there was a I for or something of opportune lange around in the garage ruth walks in interrupts them However, the altercation is somebody hits her with the two by four and then finishes or off with a knife, but
a lot of places report that it was the other way around. Does that make sense to you earned? No, it can't because she had defensive bruising on her arm from the board we have from the beating. So if you are stabbed sixteen times in the neck, you wouldn't be able to defend yourself against a beating with your arm. I wouldn't think That's what I thought. I'm just kind of putting it out there because it didn't make sense to me when I was reading it and listening about it. I the re emphasise the point that I think she was hit with the board first and then your going to finish somebody off with the two by four, so you're going to go, get a knife. It was also said that the beating would have killed her, but that the stab wounds in her neck killed her before the beating did the beating was very severe. They did find a baseball bat near her body.
I also found a broken door handle on the garage, the broken part of the door, and oh, was found covered with blood. It was near her body as well, they look for fingerprints and they don't find any they tested for blood in the garage. They found a spot of blood. On grudge floor. They also tested it on a. I guess he utility sink. It was the lawn room tub and they found blood on the handle of the faucet. from this. They assume that the perpetrator washed up and from the brutality of the attack these they had a lot of blood on them. So they went into the house to look for any signs of blood or any kind of signs of entry or anything
they came up with, was, I guess, a wet towel in the bathroom of the master bedroom. So this leads investigators to believe that, might have been somebody that knew her. Somebody that knew the house yeah. They assumed that whoever did this had a key to the house because there's no sign of fourth century. There is no sign of robbery, things missing, except possibly to buy forward. who's gonna, steal that Anders sexual assault so at this point there thinking somebody close to ruth somebody that possibly lives at the home and what better suspect you have. Then the husband who literally finds his dead wife in the garage Right, and so they need to figure out where everyone was remember, there was Ruth her husband, Bernie, her daughter, Julia, who is ten
the time and then she had a son who is twenty two years old name Jeffrey, so they need to talk to all the family, members and fear who is where and when see. If any of these make forgets aspects now, for the most part, The family seems like it's well put together. They seem they get along, but it turns out that There were some issues between bernie and ruth and the marriage, and this makes the investor It is really focus on Bernie, and why not I mean the husband. Did it right? That's what you always here it turns out that Bernie had a relationship with another woman. It was a woman who worked at a local store and that woman, dealing with a rocky relationship with her husband who suffer from mental illness
now a sort of burning connection was they were both and knees, rocky marriages trying to make things better and they had a connection. So he starts having an affair. With this woman he met, and it appears that Ruth actually caught them hanging out one day at the local store and this caused a huge fight. Bernie actually says he's fed up with her and kind of wants to end the marriage at that point. Unless she gets back on her meds, which that's kind of weird to me, cheat on your wife and then turn a random blame her and say you're through, but it just shows that there was a lot of issues there and Bernie
wasn't completely happy in the marriage, so you got an affair, you got fights. You got motive. And when this incident went down, where his wife figured out what was going on when he was having an affair with she actually noticed that she saw Ruth away She had never envisioned her because she only new ruth by the way that Bernie described her in So when she saw the way ruth reacted. She was thinking This woman is a lot more well put. Other than I had invasion, and so it was right then, that she was like I'm out of here, but Bernie needed a ride back, and so she drove him back to his car, but she was pretty upset with burning at that
Why is she felt like she had been honest about how her relationship was, but then she didn't think that Bernie was being honest with her. Now we could go on and on and talk about how Bernie started pursuing this woman again- and this is after Bernie around on his mistress to he turn it around her and said how he was upset with the way she was doing things they end up kind of patching things up a little bit, but according to Jeffrey, his dad was saying I'm going to divorce your mother, so investigators are looking hard at Bernie. For obvious reasons, and again it's one of those things where I understand why they're doing it, but Bernie came home to find it wife he hadn't been there all day. They look into his alibi
as he says he was at a retirement lunch for one of his co workers they checking and they can find multiple people who testify. Yes, we saw him, there We spent time with him, so he has an alibi that is very solid. They arrive home around two hundred and thirty in the afternoon. Let me know, obviously, if he's at a luncheon. and its theorized, that she was murdered at around noon- he's not gonna, be there there's multiple witnesses and at that point investigators even Did you hire somebody to kill your wife but nothing's found with Bernice call records? Were they counts or anything, there's no evidence that he did this so the investigators have to shift their focus uganda and why they focused on burning. Obviously he loved his wife, but
maybe he wasn't really prepared to deal with the challenges that it facing that his family was facing because of his wife's mental illness, but part of the autopsy they know she was honour medications. And so you wonder what was going on at the time and is it possible the hired summit? We have shirts from shoe crime clothing. That say the husband did it. I mean this is a true crime, saying the aim the a theme the husband did it right? I totally understand why they went and looked at bernie with a magnifying ass, a man they could see all the trouble, but the timeline does not work not for bernie. They check into the time lines. For that day, they know that ruth, at a store, and she was there until about ten fifty four in the morning. They know that jeffrey by his own admission was at
house, until one thirty, because he was go work at home, his house named diane need him. He was gonna, go work on an orchard at three o'clock, so he left his house at one thirty. So we have between one thirty and two thirty that this crime goes down and ruth is murdered. That's a really small window and what's bad is jeffrey. Is there to one thirty so he becomes. The new focus of the investigation was the last person to see her alive. I understand this and if the perpetrator appears to have washed up and then they talk about the brutal. Of the crime. Is some random act, its questionable here? They ask jeffrey What happens when you got ready to leave what was going on at the house? He said that his mother Ruth, was lying in her bed, and
He went and got the male toss it on the fireplace and say goodbye to his mom and left. So the focus now is on Jeffrey. He also happens to have large blisters on his hands, which, if she was beaten with a two by four, where does beaten and stabbed and general investigators are thinking how'd, you get those huge blisters on your hands. Maybe It was from a beating you just inflicted beyond these blisters are, if you put your hands out flat with your thumbs right in there on the insides on the inside me when the thumb and the index finger, but they're, not just blisters, thereby fears that had been sort of damage, so their opened up jeffrey works with his hands. A lot me he does gardening. He works at an orchard.
So he's using tools quite often and kind of has a reason why he would have blisters right- and this is where you'll find conflicting narratives of the blisters on his hands. You'll hear it at Jeffrey claim that he got these blisters from moving wooden palates at work, and when you think about that, where the blisters or at that doesn't make sense in how would you get blisters from moving parts at work also, his boss? It works as that they usually wear gloves. So how would you get the blisters but jeffreys actual statement is I had the blisters before from working doing gardening and what not and they were re opened by moving palates at work, which that makes more sense, but Jeffrey says that they ve been torn open by palates at work
Jeffrey, even less them, no, which paletot is that opened up. My blisters and the detective go there and looks at it in the dark with a flashlight, but I don't even know it's dumb. No, that's really dumb, like. Is it so hard to turn a light and look at it or I don't know, sees it, take it into evidence and actually test it for his dna to see if he even touch the palate. I don't know according to the investigation of the palate, they don't find any evidence. That it had caused any such damage. I dont know how they arrive at that, but, frankly, I think the whole thing's ridiculous. I think you can open blisters up by moving a pallet. I think you can open blisters up by working in a garden, and I think you can open blisters up hitting somebody with a two by four, but
That's not any of the narratives here the narrative is, he got the blisters from the palate or he got the blisters from hitting some of the two by four. That's not really the argument, it's. What did he tear them open on, so this is a whole. Are He meant that made in this case. That's wrong That's the only reason why we're focusing on the stupid blisters for up to two minutes now, because the narratives are conflicting and they're, both wrong Jeffrey says, he had them men. They were opened up by a pallet, but they could have been opened up by a two by four or bludgeoning. Somebody also, I think, if you look at what the police are saying, I think they just taken it down a simplistic way, which is he moved a pallet and his blisters opened up, but they take it down, as he moved palate and it gave him blisters, but when you take it down the wrong way or you give in
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This investigation doesn't really get off to a good start. They take pictures outside the home. They eggs, m and roofs body they perform an autopsy. But honestly, they use illumine all in jeffreys car, but they do use luminal in the house. I guess in this because they dont really see any blood but you use, loom and all the fine blood you can't see it. This is the problem. Is they detected blood in the garage on the floor? and they detected it in the laundry room, sink soap possibly somebody's washing up, but they don't find a lot of other blood in the sequel, I wouldn't they use luminal in the sank to see if they did wash up. Why wouldn't they use luminal in every single bathroom in the house because that's their narrative now? That's their theory is whoever murdered ruth women side and wash
up, but god forbid, you use any room at all inside the house near they take the sink apart. They examine it. They look to see if they can find blood. They find engagement ring in the trap to come on. That's the thing is they don't remember, seeing her wedding ring yet remember if this was a stranger were strangers. Then was robbery emotive now we already said that maybe there was a to buy for missing, There were some blocks of wood by a motorcycle in the garage, and people will prop them up, so it doesn't roll. I guess, and they were decide as if some we'll get rate a ride or maybe Someone was getting ready to steal a motorcycle now
Bernie will say later that the two by four or the blocks of wood were never missing. But again, this is his words and she was bludgeoned with something she was, with something they never found the murder weapons. So where do we go from there? Let's clarify something: the board's that were used. The motorcycle were about a foot by three foot or a foot by force. What he was so missing some other items in the garage. Supposedly, missing a to buy for a screwdriver and a black box cutter. That's a box knife Jeffrey had a knife and they examined that knife. They asked medical examiner. Could this knife have caused her wounds? Nothing definitive. There baby room at all on the knife would have been a good idea. Yeah, I don't know-
if they did, that or not. I just know that they couldn't definitively show whether that knife could have been used in the murder or not. So, let's be clear, They do not have a murder weapon. In this case they have what they say: the murder weapon in theory, as a concept say was a linear object with edges, meaning to buy for now, when they Started questioning Jeffrey, they inform him that his mother's been murdered and Geoffrey breaks down and cries and how counts shows that he's distraught by this news and while they questioned him, he doesn't seem like he's, hiding anything, and I think the body? Language says a lot, although you can be a total sociopath liar and whatever, but
He seems to be generally distraught by the news. I dont think the police at that point by any of his stories. They believe that he was there probably at the time that route was murdered and they're looking at her mental health, history and looking at how they ve had a problem in the past just a year before they arise, it ruth and she had to go through some extra care because she s tat, her son jumped off of the bed put her hand around his throat and attempted it beat him, and so the police were called domestic abuse. She was put into the hospital pre much forced to take her medication. She was for weeks and then, even after she got out of the hospital, she was still reluctant and refuse to take her medications which you'd
bank being arrested in all this would color. Slap, some reality into you, but now she truly fair. that she was fine and she didn't need to take her met. There has to be a lot of sympathy here because it's such a difficult thing to deal with so the mode that the investigators are going with here is ruth, had attacked
son in the past. She was difficult to deal with, and some sort of altercation broke out some sort of argument that escalated to Jeffery, attacking her or even possibly defending himself against her and then going too far with it detectives interview all kinds of people. One of the people I find very helpful is an ex girlfriend of jeffreys, says more or less a recent ex girlfriend that they find holly. Free men had data Jeffrey for quite a while. They were pretty close by
she had all kinds of information to give to the police. Let's say this up front: if you break up with someone, chances are there's a whole different spin on how you look at that person or talk about them right. The context of things, I'm actually friends with a lot of my axis. I think it shows a sign of maturity and civility, but most well don't do that and holly and Jeffrey broke up in march of two thousand and eleven. So I think this was still pretty fresh for her, especially the way they ended up breaking up right one of the things they learn from Holly as they broke up because Jeffrey was attempting to date. Another woman. There was someone also he was interested in. was telling her that he wasn't seeing anyone else when Holly
found out about that she was pretty upset. Also, I guess one of the problems that they had early on. Was there Jeffreys mother was very religious and holly's family wasn't so they big on holly, because she was, I think she was non theist. Essentially, the holly was really put off by jeffreys ability to lie to her face. So she talks about this and emphasizes this. What the investigators, The legislators think well, if he's a good liar, then when we talk to him in harrogate at em I'll he's gonna. Let our face pretty easily to write it. You know you can't judge a book by its cover. If you look at Jeffrey. This is a handsome well put together guy. He was, student majoring in biology valedictorian from his high school smart guy and
a person, you wouldn't suspect, of murder, but here's his girlfriend saying he can lie effortlessly. and it's scary. So they say asking or more questions? What did Jeffrey say about his family in particular, mother and she said he was worried. bout. His younger sis, you're being left home along with his mother and that his mother attacked him now when the their narratives you here is that Every was telling some people that is much. attacked him with a knife. Member that whole scenario where she jumps out of bed grabs him by the throat well, is talking about that in adding a knife and to make it worse Is it had another situation worries talking about a knife attack, but regardless is no real evidence of this knife attack right, we'll yen in talking with holly, I think
this is just what I got out of it. It seemed as though they were all kind of leaning toward Jeffrey was making stuff up to make things worse than they really were, but then she I want to say that he was really wanting is dead. Divorces, mother, he is upset that his dad was dragging its feet on it. Here's another bit of information. They found out that the father was preparing to divorce the mother. Getting that process started but he was telling his mistress I'm going to do in january, and this is in December, when she's already started the process of divorcing, her husband and she sang where you out with all this but Jeffrey is telling holly. I'm upset that it's taking him too long. So this is, the end of two thousand ten. When this is happening so holly, she paints a picture of Jeff free, is scared of his mother and scared of what
his mother might do a sister and he wants his dad to divorce. His mother, a lot going on here. What are the odds he was murdered by a stranger. If the household was sperience, seeing this much turmoil. Well, that's the thing is you have a less than an hour window, so Somebody came in to steal stuff. The garage, maybe still the motorcycle and ruth heard a noise came down to investigate, interrupted this theft of the motorcycle and this person or persons attacked her with a board and then stabbed her to death left the garage and somehow, I guess closed, the garage door be in them, because you remember she was laying in front of the side door so now, howard the killer, get passed. Her
There was evidence that she may have been moved. Some people believe that may have been rolled over where she might have rolled over on around I dont know: ok, that's may be possible, but looking at her injuries, I just think it seems really unlikely in other words. She would have been blocking the door I guess the only way that the assailant could have gotten out of the garage is if they open the garage door, hit the button and then ran out before the garage door closed. Jumped over the sensor, but I'm assuming that if you just bludgeon someone to death and stabbed him in the throat and now you're, not stealing anything you're, probably not going to leave the ground that way or think with sound mind and body to jump over this. Sir, whatever to get out of the garage there's another path
nobody here, which is I've, left my garage door open about three times and my neighbour across the street is a police officer for the Kansas city, police department he's gone your garage and hit the button and run back out and managed to get out and the gradual went down, did he jump over the sensor? I don't think he did it take as my garage there's a sensor in its to prevent a grudge door from closing on you, your car, whatever right so weird. I dont know how that works, but he's done it three times so again we're back to a family member, we're back to somebody inside the household because probability of a stranger or an assailant, unknown to the family, air, not feel in it. One of the other people detectives wanda, checking with was Diane need him
turning to Jeffrey, he had done some work at her house, planting lilac bushes tat. There was a whole line of them in inner yard and pay that would his alibi where he was that at the time and you get the understanding of how he busted his blisters on hands. If he's digging holes and planning lilacs, what does she say? Well, when they first talked to her. She says that there was no way that he planted the lilac bushes that day, because he had actually done it for prior and she knows that because in one of the subsequent days she. Put mulch down around those bushes, and this was before may twenty. Seventh, so I'd even read up to five days before the time of the murder, but yeah Jeffrey says he planted these bushes on the day of the murder, but he didn't and then he actually
called her and left her voice message it around the same time saying hey, I was out at your house and I did some work for you just thought you should know you actually details the work. He did. But he doesn't mention planting the lilac bushes on that call and accordingly but I understand his call was waning. Detailed than any com. he's ever left her. This is interpreted by the investigators as your manufacturing, an alibi. and you're telling her. You were there doing all these things, but worrier, because she wasn't home when you did it. So she can't verify that any of this work was done. All you're doing is saying it was done diane would leave notes. They would be list of things that she wanted Jeffrey to do and Geoffrey had a key to her place and he would go in. Cross things off the list that he did and she said it wasn't to make
he was doing what he was forced to do so much as reminding her of what he was doing, because she would forget and so you can only imagine that every knowing this would say. Well, she can't remember staff. I have the czechs, darfur. lists to let her know what I've done stuff, but there's no date here. It's not like it's dated, and you can say, oh well, he's, already checked off the lilac wishes, but it was on may twenty third or something so again, it comes down to said she said so they asked neighbours across the street and there were a bunch of people working across the street. One of them even said: oh, I know Jeffrey he's- got allowed car Scott allowed muffler on it, I don't remember being over there. I think I would have heard that, and so these or disputing that Jeffrey was even bear that day, so jeffreys alibis, garbage well, it's garbage in maybe the detectives eyes, because their say What we have. Four people
we're here, saying this and then you're saying that, but they don't jive, so they don't believe Jeffrey Jeffreys. Looking like a guilty man and him talking about planning these lilacs the sounds like a lie now, sir michael eating, your story, straight striated psych, you straight up allied other people say your great liar. This doesn't look at it. Let me say this if I was a detective and I felt as though some one was lying to me left and right. I definitely would be looking at them as this aspect, because the timeline fits they were the last, person to see the victim and now they're lying about their alibi, they're making stuff up. So I don't blame the police were looking at jeffrey at this point The problem is still what's the motive. You can say she had mental illness she had already attacked him. Your prior, but
she was on her medication and, according to her husband bernard, she was doing a lot better see. These are the things we can't really know. Is this being on medication. We know that medical Things have to be altered. Sometimes they have to be increased as part of the treatment cycle right We don't know if she's having had a bad moment, but no one is and said at least from jeffreys found. they're not coming out saying: oh, that's possible they're all saying- and this is even backed up by his prior girlfriends- that Jeffrey not a violent person, in fact, holly said that she hid him a couple of times and that he never even raised a hand to her. So, despite the ex girlfriends being a little rough with him term serve their testimony in their statements tip. Lease they're saying
not a violent guy, now Bernie dad, he doesn't think his son should be a suspect either. He says there's no way he could do this and I get why he would say that, but from outside point of view don't know what happened I mean I can say. Oh errand would never heard a fly, but what a sum? you snap and you know murder. Everyone on your street, I dont know I could still say errand wouldn't have done that and I think of the Bart whittaker case. There's no way he could have murdered his brother, but in the end, looks like he did so. I understand a father defending his son here, but he wasn't home. He doesn't know what happened: will you like to think you know your family and you'd like to think that you know what someone would do and not doing your family. But it's also-
No, I think by this point, especially for people who have seen the dark night, you get people in the right situation and they will do something they normally not do so we ve establish that the police focus there. Instigation on Jeffrey for murder of his mother and five months after the murder. They charge him but see it's a tricky thing, because this what the witnesses say and by witnesses I mean basically their character witnesses. Jeffrey supposedly a liar. He was there possibly at the time the mother was murdered, but they don't have any direct evidence. The pocket knife he owned, not proven to be a murder weapon to by force. They don't have one that's bloody: they don't have one that was used in the crime if it was a to buy, for they don't have a trail of blood
leading them to the killer, they don't have fingerprints, they have nothing tying Jeffrey to the murder, but They get a citizen grand jury to indict em. I understand why they would indict him. He looks guilty. He looks suspicious, but this investigation I mean come on or if they actually had gone into the house Is luminol in any of the bathrooms detected blood and were able to prove that the murderer had washed up inside the house at that really the gates, a stranger or intruder theory is. Why would somebody do that. A family member or somebody familiar with the house. Absolutely would, but they didn't do it. They didn't
go into the house and test for blood. They did not do enough investigation on their home and now we're locked with questions but see you know as well I do, prosecutor they don't always need and ironclad case. Sometimes they just need someone who they feel cannot defend themselves and that's what they have a jeffrey. They have a guy that looks well put. Gather, but they have a whole line of people prepared to talk about him and paint him as a law higher and someone who is struggling at home and technically he is both of those things he is alive. He has lie
and he absolutely is struggling at home. They got him there so november, twelfth two thousand and twelve. The trial begins. They pull up all of these witnesses, a question jefferies co workers and they ask one of his coworkers. Could you get blisters on your hands from moving palates and the co workers like now, I've even moved the pilots and never gotten blisters on my hands will again. This is the prosecutions narrative. Do you get blisters from moving palates his co workers has no, but that's not what Jeffrey sad. He said that they were opened by
how it so even on the stand, even during trial, the prosecution is pushing a different narrative. Then reality. The trial goes like this. The d, a citizen ski, lays out a case that Jeffrey was a home with his mother and something bad happened and that Jeffrey killed his mother and brings up all these witnesses. Who testify the fact that Jeffreys, a liar jeffrey, has cheated on his girlfriend Jeffrey. Had problems at home wanted his dad horses mom, you know it's all this negative stuff about his mother and about himself, and so it's basically what the supporters of Jeffrey would call character assassination. Most of you know, I've been an audible subscriber for like a decade now audible offers an incredible select
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basically what the supporters of Jeffrey would call character assassination, and that is because, when the defence attorney James champion gets up and start talking, he'll ask all of these witnesses. Do you have any proof that Jeffrey killed his mother? Do you have any forensic evidence that Jeffrey, his mother and, as he asks each of the witnesses that he's cross examining they all spawned that they dont have any such proof. So this case comes down to four the jury, which made up mostly of women a case of is free someone, you dont trust voice, a killer. If you go by lack of evidence and you can't convict then find him not guilty, but see. That's just insane to me because we have already talked about this in the past, but feeling like someone's a murderer and proving their error, or at least getting pass that burden of reasonable doubt
that really a concern. Sometimes I mean we look at these cases we say well, did they prove it or is there some doubt here we have our Jeffrey right. You can say it feels like. Maybe he did it but where's the proof where's, the murder weapon. Where is any evidence that he cleaned up at the house, because where did this had to be covered in blow? That's what they said. His poor mother was beaten seventeen times and then stabbed sixteen times in the neck, and we know there are a lot of vessels and arteries in that neck. She was bleeding. So what happened? Where did the killer go there saying it's jeffrey. You would think that there are at least be some bloody footprints, some blood droplets somewhere, but we harp on this all the time you bought an investigation so badly. You can't solve for ex anymore.
But maybe you don't need to know James champion the defence attorney for Jeffrey pine. I thought did an incredible job at the trial, because at the end of every cross examination he ass, can you prove that Jeffrey killed his mother? Can you do it? Forensics and they all answer no, all along the way he keeps pointing out. You have no evidence that he was involved in this you're. Just Tearing him down but you're, not proving that he committed the murder, and I think he does a great job with that, but because he talks at length. He says some things that the DA can harp on so during his closing arguments he meant And how the prosecution failed to bring forward some pretty important witnesses
then the de came out during his closing arguments and said that we could have brought them out, but we felt like we covered everything in what it did. Defence attorney not do for Jeffrey here is the problem. I believe he did a great job overall. He believed that he showed that you can't die jeffrey to this crime, which is pretty important, think, but he didn't call witnesses who could get on the stand and say I know Jeffrey he's. A good man character references, it's real we kind of like the gaping hole in this whole thing. You know you can poke all If you want the da's case that man, if you're defendant, is looking really bad and you haven't tried to repair him in front that jury. Well now, They don't really have any kind of motive to save him. It was
stream character assassination on the stand, even by people who seem to like Jeffrey, but the way they were questioned didn't come out well, yet he doesn't bring any one up to really say Jeffreys a great person, and he would never do this and that seem to leave one impression with the jury, spoiler kind of figure out how they found this case right december, eighteenth, two thousand twelve, is when the jury returns its verdict and they find Jeffrey guilty of second degree murder. Now this has entered because a region A second degree wasn't available, but the prosecution ask that it be added. It was first degree because if you deliver
eight at any point, while your murdering somebody, they can call it first degree murder. So if you ve gone from stabbing to aboard well or vice versa, yeah. That would be a pause, a moment where you were contemplating what you were doing so that's first degree. Now, that's a pretty hefty charge said the prosecution says. Well, let's throw in second degree murder sort of crime of passion deal and defence attorney saying no first degree or not guilty leave it at that, because The defence attorney knows that if you give a lesser charge and if some doubt the jury might go with that. Yeah, it's sort of a comfortable step down that the term they. use that I hate is split. The baby, which I guess I listened too much metal and see. Gory metal ban, covers to wonder, imagined splitting the baby
but that's the term they use and that's what they say might have happened in this case. Is they went with the lesser charge because of the lack of evidence, my brains, indifferent sentence as well and so because he's found guilty, the prosecution comes foreign says we recommend a sentence between thirteen and thirty years and, of course, defence attorney is asking for, I think ten and a half judge LEO bowman is going to hear from Jeff and from other people. This is where I think there is an attempt made to kind of help. Jeff is at this point. His attorney did a good job of trying to help him logically, but you know we know, people run on emotions and because he didn't help him emotionally during the trial. Now then, to bring that out, because if he gets thirty years,
he's gonna be gone a long time, so they wanted give him a shorter sentence just spoke and said. I hope that some day the truth may be made known, and I mean the acquitted. However, your honor, I do realise that I was convicted in that you have to sentence me. He went on to say my Pham. Especially my father and sister, need and want me home so that we can connect you to move on from this tragedy. I ask you for that mercy now not for me, but for my family, as my sentence directly affects them. Man to me, that's about as good a delivery as you can get when you're asking for mercy now the problem. He fell This is the judge, the prosecution. Everybody looked at him like your guilty. How do you get mercy because your ma their suffer and it was a brutal crime.
The sentencing was on january, twenty ninth of two thousand thirteen I said the prosecutor was asking for thirteen to thirty years. The judge, and down a sentence of twenty two sixty years, that's even more harsh than what the prosecutor was actually asking for, and we saw this with parole boards in the past. The cases where oh you're not going to admit fault here, you're, not accepting what you did. So we need a punish you, because this is a horrible crime. They didn't get Jeff apologizing for what he did.
because Jeff is maintaining his innocence. He sang. I didn't do these things now. Let's talk about fair trials. Just because, if you look at this trial, would you say it's fair that the prosecutor was allowed to basically characterise ass in a job, but not prove that he was a killer, and yet he got a conviction. Well, this is where Judges and the whole system has the ability to deem what's admissible and what's not, they allowed it in, but literally found somebody guilty, because we think there are a bad person. We think they're capable at opportunity. They possibly had motive, but did they do it? Personally, I think Jeffrey looks like
prime suspect in this case I'll even go so far as to say. I think he probably did it, but wow. Nothing tying him to this. When you think of like Michael Peterson at least he was the only one home at the time and it was either or an owl at least he left a footprint on the back of his wife, yeah, there's somethin there to tie him to it and if you dont know Michael petersen go watch this, kay series on netflix. It's me very everyone knows, but in this case we don't have anything and you can say he probably did it. You can say I feel like you did it. You can say this all lines up, but
You have to have that evidence that thing linking him to it and I'm going to go out and say it again. I think they could have had that link if they'd done the investigation properly, but they Didn'T- and here we are, I understand the people that support jeffrey. Even his father still supports him. His sister supports him yeah. It was sad. His dad said we want to get him home by christmas. Well, he was convicted just what seven days before christmas. The problem here is, let's say he did do it well. I bet some innocence. Projects are going to come in here and they're going to shred this case. I think you'll walk free soon, that's my
action so do a good job, but the investigation, because one we dont want to convince the wrong people in two. We don't want murderers, walking the street either right, but if you don't do the investigation properly, they're gonna get out it's a double edged sword. Here I know Jeffrey is a smart guys very well spoken. You can even find things that he's written and spoken about since he's been in prison. I think he's going to get out soon because of the lack of investigation. Well, it can take many years to get out decades, but I will say this. I do think that this is a case. That's prime being overturned. The trouble is an I'm, not saying they're all like this, but I think some prosecutors are content with already got a conviction. Even
to overturn it already got that I got the right person you let them out, but I think this is a prime case breeding overturned because of the way they got him convicted. They didn't prove that he did it and that's it. Problem again, we can look at this and go you were there to one thirty, you up to be lying about working for diane need him that day his attorney did a good job of breaking down the witness. this from across the street, saying. Why would they be paying attention to that house there working in their talking? There's a bunch of them there I'll hang out together why would they care about? What's going on across the street? Champion did a great job, but when it comes down to is, if you didn't prove if some judge somewhere might look at it and say yeah, this doesn't look right. We've seen other people convicted on less. Here is a prime case of that this is a guy. That's been convicted on less than when we cover another case where somebody's not convicted or not even charged,
its madness to Me- and I realize it every court system, every district is different. Even in the same state, you have different districts, you go from state to state, even country to country, but you would think that the burden of proof or beyond reasonable doubt stands anywhere? You are free is now married to a woman named Lena exchange some messages with her. She said something that was the effect of they say. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. She basically says: that's not true. It's almost like the burden of proof, at least for some people is on themselves, is on the defence. And that's what happened in this case. There was no reasonable doubt even entertained here, not as far as I could tell you know it's funny. They talk about the jury, in this case The only really notable thing about the jury
the trial was they actually and a note to the judge asking about what kinds of snacks they were going to have some time That january. I believe before this, and saying one of the jury actually contacted James champion defence attorney and said. I regret finding him guilty of second degree. Murder. I think it's that realisation of now that they had time to think about it, but too late. I'm. You can't go back in and go? I changed my mind, you one shot and I know that socks it's too late. It doesn't make a difference, but what it should tell people is. If you stop and think about this case, Forget about your emotional feeling about the case forget about what Instincts are think about burden of proof. and ask yourself if Jeffrey pine can get convicted because
a liar and a cheater. How would you fair, not well it's scary thing just to think about how you could be found guilty, even without any proof it's like them. Echo peers and gave him in his wife are the only ones home so she's dead he's guilty, at least in that case he was there the whole time and he had been yeah. He had some blood on him, but in this case I imagine some weird third scenario, where you just have to people in a room, and one of em ends up dead, murdered, say, staff and there's only one other person around, but you can't find the murder weapon and theirs Zero dna zero, physical evidence. Do you find that other person guilty by default because they were the only one around. Even this case Jeffrey said he wasn't at home, he left at one thirty and they
aunt nail down the time of death in such a way to say: oh well, it happened before one thirty, I think the probability of an intruder or a robbery. Gone wrong is low, but it's still there and when you're talking about reasonable doubt, they didn't prove their case and the fact that they gotta conviction is surprising. To me, I'd like to read something from Jeffrey pine about his mother, Jeffrey pine wrote this ruth paine. and was a wife, a daughter, a sister and a friend, but the thing that she was the most was a mother and she was my mother my mom always wanted to be a mom. She prayed for it for many years and when she finally got the chance, she embraced it with everything. In her being I know these things because she told me I had a close relationship with her and some of my honest memories. Growing up are simply sitting and talking to her for hours
going to the library to pick up videos and books. She was my teacher for the first part of my as I was home schooled, she took harsh criticism from friends, family and even strangers for homes going me, but she did which he believed to be right, and I credit her for my academic drive and success without her instilling in me a work ethic and desired to learn. I wouldn't have gotten the degrades, I did many p I don't understand what happened with her mental illness and I dont think I even do fully. She had a lot of Body pain and sleepless nights that contributed. It became the longer she went without taking medication, but even in ever worse times. She still had a heart. She still took care Meals and cleaned and did things that needed to be done she, carrier aid from the illness, but she was still my mom. She always loved me and always loved her and even when didn't understand why she acted strangely, we still a wife, a daughter. Sister and a friend
my mom it her deeply that she was taken before her time, especially when she had the medical help she needed. I believe watches over me and my wife and my sister, I miss her every day, I could say anything about my mom. It would be that she was. meant to be a mom, I'm lucky to have had her for mine. If anyone wants more information, go out to the free Jeffrey pine page on facebook
the.
Annie Lee Bailey came to hollywood with a dream she wanted to be someone famous when she married actor robert blake. She thought her dream come true until all went wrong on may. Fourth, two thousand one at nine, thirty p m body was found in a car bleeding severely. She had been shot in the head within the hour she was gone. night Bonnie went from victim to villain, I called her a drifter, a liar, a scam She was in the monopoly business. She was in the prostitution, business gittin criminal conventions all around the country, various states, but who, whilst Bonnie, really in wanting to listen to the execution of bodily begging on amazon, music, apple, podcast, spotify or you can listen early and ad free by joining wonder, replaced in the wondering at.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-09.