« The Generation Why Podcast

Satanic Panic - 149


Satanic Panic. August 12, 1983. Judy Johnson calls the Manhattan Beach police to report that the 25 year-old son of the owner of the McMartin preschool had molested her two and a half year-old son. In October of that year, Children's Institute International began interviewing potential victims of ritual, sexual abuse by employees of the school. By March, seven in all are charged with 115 counts of child sexual abuse. In the end, just two of them would face court and seven years and $15 million dollars later the entire prosecution of the members of the daycare center would end with a whimper. Who was Judy Johnson and why did she suspect her child had been molested? What did the children say happened at the school? What evidence did investigators uncover? Did the devil do it? Joel Osteen & Damien Echols are perceived as polar opposites, but just how big of a part do our perceptions play in this? How big of a role was the media and why? 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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fifteen million members who are already saving. store all your shopping, rackets and outcome or get the rackets an app to start saving. Today, that's racket in our aid hey you t e dot com I do it tonight in pretty good man. Where were we got some announcements we need to make her son. I had a kind of a tariff week this week I had tat auditor over on tuesday and they said he's gonna, take a couple: hours ended up being over eight hours of being audited by the government, very unpleasant experience,
I think I'd rather have a second me from a shark, then go through that again, but All my troubles are nothing compared to the troubles of the case we're gonna be talking about tonight. There is a some people that ran a elementary. school were a day care and when we talk about tonight in well, it's considered the make martin preschool by that's interchangeable. Would they care, because you're talking about young children who are in the early stages of education in but also their mothers, be at work and they need somewhere to be. You have adults looking after them typically way, men, although, as we see in this case, some being a man in a day care watching little children. That could be a little tricky there may be some biases inherent in that, or I should say some discrimination
in being a male in that industry, It all started with a manic depressive woman named Judy Johnson her child claim to have painful, bow movements of some type, and she took this and decided to report it to the police, manhattan. Beach police proclaim that her child had been abused and it most likely had been the day care center. Well, This is in august, nineteen. Eighty three and manhattan beach is incorrect. Morning. It's actually when I understand a nice area. Oh yeah, it is this one Judy Johnson when her son first complained about it, examined him, and she didn't see anything odd, then, after being at the care the next day. She.
Examined him again and that's when she noticed that the area was seemingly affected, is reddish end. My will go into too many details, but it looked wrong to her the odd thing about this The whole situation is, is Judy Johnson, didn't simply contact the school and inquire about having her son attend. She tried that, but they had told her that they didn't have room for her, her son, who was two and a half one day. She just dropped him off. Oh yeah. She just drops him off while they, I guess, decide to accept him at that point. It's probably the situation where they're thinking well she'll just keep bringing him here. So we might as
It just is not like. This is happening all the time, so it's one person they have to make an exception for so they should have called the authorities on her for child abandonment, but instead she's calling the authorities on them for child molestation. Okay, I just want to get this straight now that that would be a good eye that would have interesting if they had tried that angle, maybe we're looking at people who are good people yeah or at least well intentioned now How do they decide? Who is the euro party here, because she's dropping child off and leaving. How did she know anything right? Well, one! She could asked the child or too she could make an assumption. I kind of thing but we're looking at here is an assumption that, since re bucky is the loan mail at this school loan, male adult that he's the one that she fingers as being the culprit. Does that makes
oh yeah yeah, because he's he's the only male there and a course it's gonna, be him a little prejudicial and sexes, but yeah I get. This allegation kind of fizzles a little bit, but there is a letter that sent out to all the parents of the children at the day care. If its ass, hey, you know, where's look into or ask your children about actual molestation and sexual assault in its it's kind of an alarming ladder that they send out to all these parents. any normal parents would not take this letter very well. And it causes alarm and a lot of the parents do beat to their children
and start questioning if their child had been molested or abuse in some way. which I think that letter was kind of the fearmongering, inflammatory ball that got this whole thing rolling, be just beyond gino judy herself You think. No, it's the wording. They didn't just say, ask your child Anything weird or strange, happened at school. No, they use very specific language like oral stimulation phrases. that so you could see how the parents, like woe, something happened, yeah, but it's not so simple as just the parents, so with the children and the children said: oh yeah, this stuff happened it. its asking that the parents something specific and it's very leading- and here it is so now the parents are freak out,
right in the bin, the children from what I understand. They don't just jump out with all this information, but since the parents are freaked out Parents are going to let it go at that this Children must have been either threatened or their high, something because their ashamed were afraid or afraid they might yeah so either way they can't stop their backing venier lay. There is a centre which could help them this whole situation and help clear it up. What's the name of that centre its known as see I children's ins? to international, is based in los angeles, and it was abuse therapy clinic run by key macfarlane. She wore factor heavily into this entire debacle I mean case they interviewed all these children and she you that she's never seen a worst case of
child endangerment and children, who are so afraid to speak of the horrors and end abuse that had happened to m, but the way these children are interviewed. It's it's really disheartening to watch. It happened before as they they would ask very leading questions like if they weren't getting anywhere with their questions to the the children they would have. They would say something to the effect of what naked games did you play at the daycare. I mean it's, not what games? Would you way, it's not, you know, did you play any games that might have been inappropriate? It was what naked games did you play now, the children they did have a naked game, they wade, but had nothing to do with being neck it. It was a little but saying they would say which was
What you say is what you are your naked movie star. It's like I'm. Rubber, your glue. What bounces often me sticks to you. So this little free- is that these children have they they latch on to this end, like what other naked game since you play. What other things did they do to you? They found out that The series of questioning would not stop until they would confess. Relinquish some sort of detail about something, and then they found out very quickly that soon? As they said, yeah I was touched or yeah. We played a naked game or I took off my pants the investigator the interrogators, like what I like to call them would be happy and continue the dialogue. I don't think this is the proper way to question a child.
I think there is much better ways to get the child comfortable to speak of sexual abuse or physical abuse or mental abuse, and it's not this I think some adults would actually crumble under this questioning and give a false confession if they were put under the same scrutiny, but a child definitely doesn't know what to say at this point. Right Why think they had multiple ways of breaking down the kids to get them to say what they wanted to hear, and one was by accusing them of being dumb. If they couldn't remember, because they would say, while the other kids before you, they AL told us about it and, of course, they're using puppets. and since I kid might have an alligator puppet and the therapist might have a monkey bit and would say MR alligator did so, and so
But you and I in a naughty place, or something like that, and of course the kid would respond, no or I don't remember that or whatever and they would basically say wool. Miss. I thought you were smart yeah, you know, don't be dumb, be smart, you could remember you would you know you would Oh, how smart you are. So this goes beyond leading their of their literally coaching, the children to a certain outcome and its because they're, starting from the point of this happen and work enough we're going to solve it were willing to get all these witnesses. That will be. will it come out and say the bucky's, the and the endemic martens these people at the school there all guilty and we're gonna get him, because these hundreds of kids that were affected, possibly thousands, yeah, we'll be able to stop this
this is an epidemic if anybody remembers Harold Rivera back then talking he may sound like well. This is this is sweeping the nation. There are millions of satan s out there in all of our children are in danger, one thing that I was, I won't say, got a kick out of, but one thing that I thought was interesting. Weird about this was remember that the naked movie star comment well, the children are asked about hitting naked, and then it slowly becomes. You know we we and undressed, and then it was yes. We were me. We were touched her fondled too. We were crawling around in secret tunnels to a secret room. Where celebrities were flown in via air balloon, hot air balloon a we were forced to have sex with them
These are some of us, the interviews these children gave Is celebrities came in from los angeles in hollywood and at one point and they were showing them photos of celebrities and one child looked at a photo of chuck, norris and said yep. He was there, This doesn't stop the line of questioning so chuck norris, apparently. is a child rapist in child. Take her ms martens elementary school preschool. This does This doesn't bring up a red flag fur for this child institute They just gloss over these. These things I at some point I'm just wondering when did the madness stop and apparently it doesn't patently goes on to the point where now they start charging the mic martens
I'm trying to figure out how it went that far. But I guess You know you had should ramirez at that same nuno same time frame. You had the Jeffrey mcdonald case. You have other. Other cases where people are invoking satan or claiming hippy satanist are on the rise and no satan. Child molesters is just the next step in this evolution. Well, if it starts crazy, how do you expect it to end up the first, the first witness which is Judy Johnson son? Do you recall what ended up coming out of him? now my was or was his comment? Well, her son. We, his name was Billy he's talking about basically satanic rituals. Oh like which is flying and and and
and a grams in drinking blood geologists. Imagine the crazy stuff you would see in a low budget horror films from the late seventies, while those were the best satanic movies or in the seven by it didn't matter how landis what was being expressed here. It's just sort of accepted I wonder why that is because if they say that something's heads cut off and someone flies across the room and there's blood being dragged there's a goat and wherein there is good testimony yeah. So what what? What kind of background you need to heat to hear all that? and then to move forward with it, as if your hearing truth
I think common sense that most people are just should inherently have is enough background to no that at that, child is not being made. stuff up. Nineteen three is when the starts. One other thing that we should kind of talk about before I move on this, so that people understand the craziness. Is that kids, scribe being flush down toilets to go to underground areas, the order go through trap, doors or even to get on aeroplanes and, fly somewhere else for abuse and then be flown back all in a day, not even a day at the summit These children were just therefore a few hours. If you, anyone that lives in los angeles, let me tell you, can't get anywhere in a couple hours for traffic and I don't care of its nineteen. Eighty two, eighty three orb twenty fifteen,
you're, not getting anywhere in a few hours. So please, and be moved around transported around or sea, which is fly or people be headed in front of them and helped her dig graves whatever. It is carrying people thing oh well, these children too young to understand these things are too young to know these these crazy, herbal thing, so why would they be saying it unless it's true, but kids are smart? We don't give enough it they watch a movie pay day here. Things from other kids. I mean most of them a vocabulary that we don't want to hear very young age, and we just don't know it to be. are we asks kids to swell alot early on as it is, and most of that's for good reasons. We would say
but you can only imagine if you're a young child- and you have adults who your parents have taken you too telling you here is what we need here I mean eventually, you think a good number of those kids just tell them what they want a year maria they they want to impress their parents, they want to please their parents and the guardians who wants to go home and get in trouble with them right either way. Look at either pleasing them or worried about getting in trouble, or you have so many adults expressing disappointment in you, because you can't remember now there at the school there there's a seven people and all who are initially the target here at first. Of course, we have re bucky, I would say there's for people who are family and then there preview art but work at the school now, but
in it they honan on on re and peggy MC martin, the charges are dropped against the rest of them, but so too People are tried in eighties, in nineteen o six anew district attorney called the evidence. Incredibly weaken dropped all charges against Virginia peggy. Marianne Betty babet. Peggy and re, remained in custody awaiting trial norka, so they they go to trial. I mean they d been dealing with this since nineteen eighty three, the trial. Actually they actually go and I think it nineteen, eighty seven and it's not on nineteen, ninety that they get to the end. So I mean they ve been doing with this for about seven years. But three solid years of trial. I can even imagine
three years of being accused as a child. Molesters satanic child molester right, but I think that they, just they only prosecuted, two of them. yeah, so there's something suspicious there right now. Some say? Oh, that's smells of cover up or if that is true, then how come even prosecute two of them well so are they only prosecuting two of them, because those two were the only ones doing it and they somehow ahead this entire underground child abusive rate underground fortress from all the other employees how are all the other people they're not accessories to this? I think them process Only two of them shows that all evidence was flimsy, but they just decided
two people were named. The most by the children says what I think it came down to. Maybe peggy was and more disappointed with the children, so I don't know they're the lucky ones they get to have their reputations destroyed. Now we get the feeling that raise their because he's a man I am sure that many of you know a lot about this trial. It's basically famous because of how much money- fifteen million dollars from what I understand, the entire thing from the first allegation to re getting let go after this his second trial. When he had another hungary that took seven years, and even better than that they didn't just take the children at their word and start working up. These counts against the people that worked at the day care center. They actually investigated.
Place. They they ran into bacco and went in dug up the earth underneath this pre school to find these tunnels that the children claim existed and demand that they hired gemma e gary sickle yeah. He was the man hired for this and was hired under the pretence of find evidence of the tunnels, he wasn't told find out if there, if there's anything, underneath the pre school wasn't told, find out what's going on investigators, if there was any moved earth under the pre school, he was hired to find evidence. So the whole pretence of what this guy's doing. Is already starting off on the wrong foot. The tunnels no longer exist so
They assume that the mic martens have these tunnels and with dirt, because there's no entrance to the tunnel they bring in a whole ex excavator and He illogical crew and they start digging up all the ground. start finding garbage and trash and in items which they claim is evidence. there was a tunnel here, a lot of this stuff there. Finding is from the nineteen, thirties and fortys, but they do fine sums that's more recent a ticket there like a bagger label or something to disneyland, and they go will see. Look we found something that's current, which makes sense that you know they just filled in these these tunnels with fresh dirt. Yet I guess
yeah massiveness have the tunnels thee? There were multiple tunnels Some of them. You got two by getting flushed down the toilet, while others you had to go through like a cellar door, type trapdoor thing and they lead a secret room, a chamber these tunnels existed? There would be evidence have them date. They wouldn't just be there. They would be ways to reinforce the tunnel, there'd be materials for the tunnels and you can't just bill in a tunnel with dirt and nobody notices. That would mean they would have to have, like? I don't know, a dump truck full of dirt roll up in their front yard, dump the dirt and enable we spend a week or two with the crews of workers filling in these towels. We don't have any evidence of that. We don't
We don't have any witnesses to this smaller day care was still open a running at this time that they were filled it in, and the parents weren't complaining about these huge dumb shocks or workers in the way it's so loud. What do you think about it not. Everyone requires this kind of evidence. He had spent a long time, but You have those allegations that the world trade center tower. came down because they were lined with splices by it. Of course, has no, they would have had to drill into the concrete columns the exposes required and how many workers would be needed a hundred times, Story building, no one noticed anything ye I again it's so loud. You know people with. No, you can't operate with people coming and going you can operate having machinery or have that many workers coming and going with?
anybody going what's. This is weird, but not around. quires that kind of evidence, so this phone disprove it for some people. I just have Warn you yeah, I realise that, but it was. Is that even even this crew that was sent to find evidence of the tunnels said why They did a really good job covering filling in these tunnels because they make in all these artifacts in with the dirt, as they filled in the tunnels to match artifacts and dirt. That's found out sighed the tunnels. In other words, there saying all the track. they found where they dug is on par with places other areas they dug that they quote unquote didn't find a tunnel.
Now I mention that a lot of the trash was found from nineteen fifties and before well. Back then people had trash pits were they would dig a hole and they fill it in what trash david byrne it and fill it in again and keep repeating this process, and then, once this trash pit was pretty much filled, they would dig a second trash pit right next to it made use the dirt from that second trash pit, though, and the first one repeat, Then, if they, the next guy comes along, he might build a third trash pit. So. this guy's, literally digging through trash pits. I mean
I ha I'm reminiscing of oak island here where people are just finding other people's trash and saying eureka. I've solved the mystery here. Signs had to do. No, no, it makes sense but their there's their zero evidence of these tunnels, and does this man he is written a book, there's other people that written books about the tunnels and in how dare you know they found the entrance, and there was some cut routes from a tree indebted down there could have been. I mean the preschool, wasn't the first property here, There was houses there before there were other buildings there before This is not the original property on this land, so their minded the basement or some sort of you know under underground storage unit from one of the other things that
filled in decades before them. Or in pre school was there. There are other explanations here that our completely and utterly discarded by this man. Well, it's not even just the tunnels but the access to the tunnels. How did they get to the tunnels? If there were even tunnels? How did they get there and that's where the children were talking about trapped, oars and being flushed down toilets? Well, you can bet they looked for trap doors they had the chance and explain where were the trap doors everywhere they said they looked and guess what they didn't find any worse. Yet the mic martin preschool sit on a concrete slab. Well, so, in order for there to be a tunnel underneath that slab that that has an access point from within the school they would have to be literally like holes or ports in that slab, for people to go through right,
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Well, I mean that there weren't any found they might have poured that concrete after the factor in we just didn't know just like they brought in trucks full of dirt to fill in huge tunnels. While it's pretty Stress is really funny. You can go and find videos where they talk about. These dark towels you can listen to all their rhetoric, everything else. They have no evidence. No, they they they found trash. They found some some roofing shingles, they found some bottles some glass- I don't. I don't get, how they go from tunnels being filled in well over over time they had parent searching, they had to get her searching and then at some point there, a man by the name of ted gunderson, oh tat, who attempts to find the tunnels. He had a thirty eight day access
station, and if anyone doesn't know who ted gunderson is he's a former if he was a former f b, I agent, who left his job at the f b. I in I believe nineteen, seventy nine. He is quite popular with people who believe that nothing happens. accidentally or by one or two people that everything's a conspiracy. So if you are in two camps, rails or nine. Eleven was george bush I'm a city was a government inside job. If you, if you're any any of those things, you already know who tat gunderson as if you are now into believing these wild theories. Then you may not know who he is. Ted Gunderson makes Alex Joel's look sane,
I mean alex he's around her and in a crazy guy, but TED he go in two the illuminati, the cia and different love. those of satanism and satanic colts or let me how does he put it cold drug networks that are all part of the communist movement I'd buy the illuminati, I might be miss quoting em, but that's really cool. to what he was saying. Is these satan? communists, drug courts have ample traded argon. men at every single level and perpetrate sexual, more station on our children and it's all part of a big plan. If you listen to this man for more than twenty minutes cause, that's all the more. I could listen to the interview that I was
It was an hour long interview. I got twenty minutes into an eye to turn it off even our bell sued, the man for fur definition, of earth slander, something I mean. That's that saying something but here here it is what What drives this man? Why does he think Satan? is hiding under every mothers bad. You could have different theory, on this. I can't say for sure, I'm one hand I think it could be a simple does the almighty dollar, which to say: who's gonna give a crap. What is It becomes out, says no. Nine eleven was terrorists. Who cares right, but if he comes out if, if you hear the headline form refuge
age and says nine eleven inside job. Now you ve got people's attention sarks. He was getting paid good money to assist indifferent cases like these ever mcdonald, it's and we wish. Let's go down some of the things that he's known for so that I would, I would just put it out there, so you can make your own judgment, but TED gunderson claimed that the government doesn't like criticised and that they have one thousand in camps, ready to go to hold citizens that are troublemakers that they don't care for and that they have thirty thousand guillotined to be head. People If need be right, because he says that beheading is the most efficient means of harvesting body parts,
and so we are we being executed for body parts, Ruby echo. No, it is being trouble purpose elsewhere, you're an enemy of the satanic com. s government, so they're, going to kill you, but then there are also going to harvest your body parts, his they're worth good motorway. What was the first thing? You read a thousand camps, tabs yeah. What we call this presence and there fairly? The poppy learn what he also says that they have five hundred thousand casket. in georgia and montana, I think, are the remains in. I saw that FEMA has the they're not caskets there like plastic barrel like coffin things, well, the same deference Faccia they're, not these pretty wooden coffins, I guess, but some and also we covered it before, but the Jeffrey mcdonald case. You have people that say well in fbi. gents says you
can call him whenever you want to call him. Ok, there's nothing about his background to suggest that he those what he's talking about, and so I urge you to look up his background. Is education Furthermore, if you look at the Jeffrey Mcdowell case, there's one glaring problem with his whole defensive mcdonald, which is he doesn't use, forensic evidence at all. So when we talked in there case about finding his pajamas, wheres underneath the bodies and on the bodies and the blood and then the lack of fingerprints on a phone it was apparently wipe down. You know there were gloves found at the scene, latex gloves. which he could have easily used. He doesn't go into that staff. He doesn't have any time for blood evidence. He doesn't have time for the weapons used in the crime. What he focuses on is holiness, locally. As we all know, she's batty she's unreliable, but yet that doesn't stop him.
Even when she gave her testimony. Finally, at one point it didn't match mcdonald story, but that's not really a problem from for him, because he saying that she's agreeing with him that there were intruders and that she knows them, and there were five people Even one of those people had an airtight alibi because they were in print in jail that night, but no we're supposed to believe her, even though she can't get details right and she never stuck with her story so really he's an fbi agent, his ease, using literally hearsay he's throwing out all of his training and knowledge and going off of the satan. panic right areas if we have if he had any knowledge, I think it's questionable intercourse, he says that everything was an inside job, that there are came trails being created, but one thing that really grabbed me even beside from all the crazy stuff already read was he said that
satanist sacrifice fifty to sixty thousand people every year. What were these I guess that think in a little yeah yeah yeah did you watch escaping Satan's where bore satan's, where, whatever that documentary was night. I didn't watch that documentary now I did, I let let me just preface it by saying I let me explain by saying that when I grew up I spent I can better will amount of time in a household where we were, informed of all that stuff and we would go to certain churches that would explain that stuff to us. So I didn't really need a watch documentary because of already lived through dat aboard had to see stuff. When I was a child like really bad films that are propaganda, films, these crazy beliefs
about satanists, and I that's why I didn't search that stuff out is because I feel, like I've already been through it. Well, I I found this one thing really interesting and I I have to read it off, but it was on the documentary in it's a profile of said, satanists targets and the people they target or if you, if you have these characteristics, you might be susceptible to satan himself or satanist. Targeting you and one is middle. The upper class home self esteem or image issues, high intelligence, loner, broken home, latch key kid: deep need for belonging susceptible to peer pressure, impressionable vic
of sexual abuse, little parental care or involvement alienated from church crew. native or curious, rebellious and king for power over or under achievers did they miss anyone? You know I did it, I just I find it hysterical at this point because they they pretty much say everybody's a target. They pretty much say that satanist are roaming, our streets. They point out graffiti and art these are sate haddock signs. They they point out. Weird things that are more that's a gang sign so If you want to say that all three things that are evil or anti authoritarian, are satan. And symbols. Well, now you
lumping it all together in a word, having the same discussion anymore. We gotta talk about what is satanism or a satanist and what is just an evil. I mean, do you think richard ramirez was a satanist or was he just? is psychotic serial killer. He invoke satan, but was he a practising satanist? I don't think he was Well, this gets into petty metal music again, looking certain way, skulls different paraphernalia most this stuff can be explained away. Is it's either? Yes, aunt I traditional back I use or anti traditional sis based rebellion a lot of time, or people just don't want to follow the same path and its they'll find their way of expressing himself in a different way. We ve seen it. We ve seen it throughout
I mean it's you're going to have those people will say: oh heavy metal music is the the way to the devil, but it's just music and even though the devil's featured quite often it's I'm not so sure that the vast majority of the people making the music even give a damn about the devil, It's it's all, just a visual, but most of the bands I mean even a band like slayer, says it's all gimmicky stuff, slayer does not proclaimed, be satanist at all. They might speak out against god or christianity or religion in general, but they dont claim in their purse. eliza be Satan is, do you know any satanist anybody that proclaims to be as satanist personally and real india now I know a lot a lot of people that say their wicked pagan.
That's not the same thing right now, but but they all little lumped in which sucks here it is, as you know, you have that kid that listens to black sab there. Iron maiden days he's a satanist or you have that kid. That's too durban misguided and he might listen to meddle in maybe He does kill bird or or kill cats and his neighbourhoods and say on doing satan's bidding. But that's just a misguided child. When you into a real person that proclaims to be satanist, they dont, worship, satan. I know it's weird, A satanist is somebody that follows an tom obey and his rhetoric. you can't even call it a religion anymore. It's more of this day, personal belief system, sir.
but he that warships, the devil or an actual deity there call day, I think it's easier elusive furthest, They they worship lucifer. There shelly worship at a devil or an entity or did whereas a satanist they follow anton vase, bully system which has nothing to do with a supernatural power. You have What what's the difference between a looser and on a baptist? You make it it's dead, thinking in the denomination. There distinctions in sadness in an lucifer, its. So if you would ask as amnesty worship the devil, most of them would laugh at you because they don't associated with that If you ask the sameness, do you kill animals and chickens? They would laugh you again because
they don't have any part of that. That's not part of their rhetoric, their religion or their belief or their, but your time other dearest. mean watching a movie to get your information and actually getting? materials those people would have written or our reading from, in hollywood and that's where a lot of people get their perception of what satanism is and then you have material out there that are written by people who would consider themselves such actually like you brought up levey. in his own materials and I've read some of them. He actually says that the worst person is someone who harms child because the child is the only innocent person around. I know that flies in the face of christianity, which says we're born with sin, but under in la vase idea of satanism, a child was actually pure and has not done anything to warrant any harm, so it's just depends on.
where you're getting information from and your perception drives everything you know going back to this attain a panic. It's it's one of those things were richard remit invoke satanism in. So Well, Satan told him to kill. If I forgot the kid and there are some kids that went out and killed their friend and they said how? Well you don't we we're listening to metal and I wanted to drink his blood and get power and satan told me to kill. Yet if you go out in Google, for god told me to kill you'll find tons of instances where people claim I'm god spoke to them and inform them that their family, were demons, corresponds satan, theirs one case of I think her name is. Diana lamely she was. Thirty nine years old, she was charged with
counts of murder for killing her two sons, Josh, who was eight years old and luke, who was six years old and injury, her child, who was fifteen months. She killed them with a rock or stoned them to death, because god told her to now is everyone get knowledge and christ fright now cause gods. Telling people to kill people When someone invoke satan during a horrible crime, its accepted, but when people say, god told me to kill now it's no oh they're, just crazy! God would never come to do that world. Just crazy, because voices shouldn't be speaking to them. I guess it's it's a double standard there. Another case I read about was a teacher who freed, out on some skate borders and grab disk
bored from one of the kids and started attacking them with it, because god told him that he needed to do this. He needed to protect. Something So might, as god, hate skateboarding now mean ice, cable ordered as a kid. You noticed it you, it makes sense out of it, causes just crazy actions from people and so Don't want people to think that just because somebody is proclaimed to be a satanist that they are Mortal enemy somebody broke times their jewish or muslim or whatever we don't automatically hate them further. Their belief system and I just wanted to kind of clear the air on what a through Satan is walking round, and our society really means as compared to
hollywood hand, even the church would portray them ass. I think there's a double standard there and I think that the prejudice and stereotypes need to stop where I think that would be difficult to stop, because this fight with TED gunderson would have had you believe. While he was alive, he died in two thousand eleven. I believe they're just art that many satanist at least people. I think that what I done a fine themselves, a saint nests like in terms of compared to christians, who make up over ninety percent- I think we, I thought the numbers may be. Eighty seven percent- okay, I'm not sure, but it's a high number here. I think finding people identify themselves as satanists is sort of like trying to track down how many people voted for some sixth party candidate for president, you know what I mean, yeah they're not going to be vocal about standing up for their rights.
In the same way that that a christian would it's easy to get a rally going for some groups, but first witness for one they're very independent, so they don't, they don't have the same organization with a funny thing is satanism is actually defended decently these days, but by atheists, because they're, just trying to make sure there isn't any discrimination or overstep from church and state right, but that's it. It's atheists, her doing most of that work. I look at this and this kind of a case like this. Martin trial in de paranoia and stereotypes that are so out of line with reality when I think of a modern day, satanist, not a looser forest. Most of these people are the theologians, therefore
loss of hers. But if you kind of look at a lot of their their ideas, you could actually see them as being of centred self selfish, egotistical, ah even flamboyant indulgent, greedy, but hey in our? If I compare Joe all steen damien apples. which one is practising satanism more, which one is indulging more one has the ten thousand dollar rolex honest on his wrist and in hundred thousand dollar s, you ve in its millions of dollars, donations and and has an ego. If you want to define the the actual definition, I think evangelical televangelist
pretty much are doing satan's bidding way more then most self proclaimed atheists herb Satan s are, then I have the power that these other people do. They don't have the agreed in the ego and the self indulgent that some of these other people do? My getting a little too controversial there. Well, there's that idea that you can sell your soul to the devil, for wealth or power. I guess what really bothers me in the end here is child protection services. They say they get over. two million reports of abuse: and neglect they have said. That's that show over a thousand children a year. Killed or murdered and abuse situation. of situations year? He didn't that's three children a day or dying from abuse at home We don't need to mix in sight, or
demon, ology or any you know supernatural forces here, people are fully capable of doing horrific things on their own and we need to focus on that. We need to focus on protecting the children, and that should be I get it. You know you think your child's being abused daddy at a preschool We need to investigate, but when it comes in the form of chuck norris flying in on a hot arable and to do it, we need to use some common sense. Well, one thing that kind of bothered me when I was researching this was that you here so The statement by the people got the worst were the people that work to the Martin preschool draw the school was shut down, they had their reputations ruined, they were prosecuted.
or so many years. They are forever tarnished because Some people, no matter what will to see them is while they must have done something. Nine out of the eleven jurors were pulled and said that actually thought the children had been abused. But there wasn't of evidence to prosecute wow and then there's would say will know they didn't have the worse. The kids had at the worse because they were introduced to a whole lot of nightmarish interrogation by people who work qualified to be talking with them. My problem with all of this is why do we have to have a race here? Why do we have to say? Oh well, these people came on a top there. There was a desire, the most sympathy for wine, I would say boat. These groups deserve a lot of sympathy. Why do we have to pick and choose Why do we have sale? Will only this site get sympathy, do we
if so little sympathy that we can we afford to give it to one side? I think it's our american culture where you boys it it's the competitive, you must win. Somebody has to win. Even if it's the person I got at worst well, I find that rather disgusting thy also heard from the prosecutor. She was stating that One good thing that came out of the trial is that now we have a better understanding of how to speak with children who may be potential. Victims may potentially be victims of sexual abuse, and I thought really. This is how you justify the seven years. Fifty million dollars all these lives ruined all these children scarred for life as this is an experiment, I think it's now. We know how not to talk to children if we figured out how to, but we know how to not from that
trial. Now I know that a lot of a lot of our listeners working in child services today- and I am sure that we ve made huge strides in in child therapy and in child services. While I guess what I'm saying is it just bothers me? that she can come out and make a statement like that find a silver lining in this horrible there's, not a silver lining here, but we, already gone through. While there is no tunnels, there's no trap doors, there's no evidence of physical sexual abuse here yet by that. Yet there was zero ever there's nothing here at all, except for one person which is Judy johnson taking a match, stick essentially lighting. And dropping in a forest in California, that's what she did in the same which trials began right if she didn't start this thing. This wouldn't have happened, anarchy
years later I mean it's, it's all really obvious. Now that she was a schizophrenic. I don't even blame her and she could have been disregarded. I blame the letter. They send out. I know I understand that what I'm saying is is she lit the fire and then went from there? But how do you take one person's word and turn it into this? Like I said debacle, how does that happen to me? It's because there's a built in dunno, if you call it discrimination or a bias or a preconceived notion, but it's centered around the fact that people had this idea that these daycare centers some of them were actually started because the people at random one
two ritualistically abused children and where does it come from? I'm sure it's been debated that it's a societal thing where you can't have these women leaving the home to go work. I've heard all this, so why not fight against this is sure. That's an opportunity, let's fight against this, so that we can fix it erika, but by the nineteen eighties you needed to incomes to live It is not just single moms that are The issue as dan quail would point out. Why don't even think it's that simple, because there are people that you they they want to do what they want. Work, and they want to have kids. By that I mean women and then maybe there with a man who wants to work he's got a career, it so difficult to tell people how theirs
I to live their lives or whatever one in this box yeah. I know that's one of the driving points of having a religion to sort of have everyone on the same page, but even with some of those people that read the school, some of those people are higher because they were at the scene churches. They were so it's not as though they weren't added church already they were already add a church. They didn't really investigate what they do. Is they say We know this is where we're gonna end up so work, Go that way. The end goal was was worth the means right and you have TED gunderson saying. Oh, we found the tunnels. Well, guess what he can't show you any evidence he'll, say then, as the other people that they can't share that information with you, because you can't be trusted with it and the tunnels were not admissible in court by the way, all of his all the fine.
of the tunnels they did not allow into the trial. I wonder why, right some of you listening know that other people who ran daycare centers also were prosecuted in the eighties early ninetys. There wasn't just the memoir wasn't just the mc mark other people were sent off, and I guess I know we centre this. So it around the mic martens, but there's actually some people that I think had it, I'm not trying to say worse, but I'm saying the allegations against them. That they felt the burned to or even more preposterous dns, I'm saying please share yeah, let's, let's talk of others rockwork, but so I thought you know
They said other people were going to prison and that most of these people were out now, except for, I think, there's. Perhaps one left in prison who is sent away much earlier, but there are there was a couple and they ended up divorcing in prison, but before they went to prison they were married and they were Francis and Dan Keller, they headed day care centres that they ran out of their home and they lived in texas now huh here are the allegations that were levied against them and got them in prison. Okay, drowning and dismembering babies in front of the children, killing dogs and cats in front of the children taking children to mexico to be abused by soldiers in
mexican army shooting children in the arms and legs are putting children into pools that had sharks in them and the sharks ate the babies, putting blood in children's drinks, cutting off fingers or arms of gorillas at a local park and digging up bodies and forcing the kids to carry the bones. Now. That's I'm taking it right from this article to really an article that people should check out. It's an add on slate slate dot com, so think about it. They have these allegations of sexual abuse. Of all these crimes going on that are that are happening at their home? So again, I know this is. I dont know how to reach all of you, but hearing that As a shark in a pool and that their tossing babies in for the sharks to eat
where first of all, where the babies coming from, where the sharks that they never found. What would happen to those sharks anywhere? Durham, say like? What? When are we gonna need or require evidence, actual physical evidence that point too and say? Yes, the kids rejoining telling the truth whether it's their own bodies, the physical evidence there or evidence of sharks. Or of blood drinking or were all these bones that supposedly you think the whole place would be littered with bounds if they're just tossing, baby a day to these sharks. Am I right? I mean where are these things going and where's? The burden of proof was the saying it's Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, no extra, mary claims require. When the tiniest bid bit of evidence before you get someone to listen, and these have none show me the shark law. I would
The extraordinary claims require extraordinary punishment for the guilty party right, so they each got forty eight years in prison yeah because The jury apparently said while they had to have done some of this stuff. So we have to punish him so they're, both out now they got out in november of two thousand and fourteen: are they filing or two thousand and thirteen I should say: are they? Are they filing suit? In order for that to happen, I think what you have to first get is you need to be exonerated, and so it's it's a trick, the situation here that I'm not sure how that works, but the the trouble again is. We call them witch hunts, it's what it is. You can't just make these claims and go after these people prosecute them, and while I guess you can that's the lesson here. You can definitely do this. If you want to claim that people have sacrificed
children on altars and then flown occur ass, the room while pouring blood into cups and what have you? and there's a goat walking around on its hind legs. All time or you're, describing my thanksgiving earn right than yours. This is the path to get people put away for life because their evil, their satanic I wonder also, I wonder if there are people out there that are having trouble, because their belief system enforces some of these ideas and they almost feel like they don't have a choice, because it's almost like our? U questioning my belief system. You think that ever comes up. Oh definitely, and I'm sure, even defining a true satanist probably offending most, because it does go against a lot of people's belief systems. They. They have been told that sir nurse, are these evil doers child molesters in there his marginalized and stereotypes as that
to say anything else is you're on the satan aside and you're, probably one yourself I I listened a metal growing up. I played with we d boards. I scale boarded that's pretty bad. I seek it's listening to their Marilyn Manson and I'm like that's weak I dunno, if there's any kids listening to that anymore, but well, yeah they're all grown up now, yeah they're growing up. Who knows what they're listening to you now I don't even know so. Satanic panic. my my last question a d everything else. No! My last question is so we had the salem witch trials way back in the day. We've had other movements it, but this now satanic panic was. Was that most recent one? Has there been something going on under our noses that we're not even aware of because we're in the thick of it well or is there something around the corner that we're not going to see because I think it kind of ended with the west memphis? Three? Ah, you mean the satanic pan.
Yeah now. What is the next round listen of that. What is the next I dont know if it's going to revolve around satanism, but what's the next spanish inquisition right? Yes, what can give people a license to just destroy people, because those people are bad and need to be gotten rid of more it'll, be politics, it will be well, it's always politics in some manner the way for them. But that's what I'm saying is what's going to bring this bring on the next one, because I don't think we've progressed far enough to be free from this. No, I think he'd easily happen again. I won't Two percent agree, but I just don't know that we can spot it and prevent it, not as not as a culture, not as a country. I don't think we can do it. I think it would just happen again and then
after the fact rebecca, that's kind of embarrassing, we'll just move on now? Do you hear that its little space remained from it? become, is a a pie. Gasped in fifteen minutes are, alas, become your space to unwind. Listen. exclusively on amazon, music or simply tell
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-18.