On today's episode we tell the story of Ross Ulbricht, the creator and founder of the Silk Road deep website. The site ran from 2011-2013, and it took multiple law enforcement agencies and officers to take down one of the largest illegal drug and weapon exchanges on the internet. In the hunt for the elusive Ross, aka the Dread Pirate Roberts, the lines of good and bad become blurred; not all good guys wear white, and not all bad guys wear black.
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Thus in here- and I wanted to let you know that errand and I have taken this week off ass.
You may know I lost my brother, Christopher back in two thousand and four he suffered from Seville,
mental illness and addiction issues
Thursday April eighth. I lost my sister Megan. My mother found her dead from an apparent overdose.
If your currently in distress or struggling with addiction. I implore you to seek help today's upset,
It is one that we recorded on January twenty second twenty eighteen. It
as a premium episode. So most of you probably haven't heard it
get simultaneously the most appropriate and inappropriate episode. We could put out right now. It covers
silk road and we hope you enjoy
I do tonight I'm doing good. Just in tonight's episode is a subject that I got obsessed with when it was,
in the news it. This is an obsession like anyone's obsession with true crime. I just wanted to consume as much information about it is possible,
I've always been fascinated with cyber crime. When de silk road hit the mainstream. I was fascinated by all the facets of it the
the ends the bit torrents, the tour network, the deep web do
number one hidden and were even paying attention. You mean the bit torrents,
well just silk, road and general no nodded
because that's something I never read about never got.
Two and then something that's actually. A big part of this case is tor,
the way to anonymize yourself law online. I have some familiarity with that.
But as far as silk road goes no, I mean, I think, in the entire
this time it was going on. I think I
a very short article about someone being arrested and think that visit and you have to do
A tour browser. This was actually creed,
aid by the name.
research, group and DARPA. So if there was
A time of war and are internet backbone was down or crippled. De military could still send message
is to each other and still get commands and orders out there. So the military and the american government built this. This
web now, people are always saying that DARPA has been.
some very, very bad stuff, and here it is that they have made this tore browser that can make it easier for people to conduct illegal activities online,
Everything is more or less a tool in it's how you use it. It could be used for good or bad if you like, we're all getting less less
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I was pretty obsessed with this. Even on my peripheral podcast, I interviewed a man named Brok and he would go out to the silk road and by his drugs
as he lived out in the middle of nowhere and was unable to get them on the street and then
He ended up becoming a dealer himself because he was the only guy that could get heroin in a small town in
His story really is an overarching somebody getting addicted to opiates and purse.
From drugs and in moving up to heroin and
or drugs and then even becoming the dealer himself. Then his downfall, let's get to the story and stop talking about it. Why don't you give them the title of this episode
So my peripheral episode was called. The road to Hell is paved in silk, and this is because it was.
Based off the silk road, the silk road was the website
that a man named Ross Ober had created, you could sell
and by drugs in a lot of other things completely
on and out of the line
The government and no oversight, no regulations self Ross over
if you saw him or met him. He was your call
essential college granola kid I com garage
because he wasn't quite a hippie, but the wood where the the plaid in them
cut off genes and what not, but he wasn't a hippie because well he was a capitalist. He was in.
idealist, full of hopes and dreams, his
MR in him had filmed, I guess,
I did video for whatever that stupid
quality show was the amazing race where you have to get across the counter
by all means necessary and show up at some point and you'd win a million dollars. He was quite a
venture. A sky, so was his sister. They were
to win the million and split the money. It can't be that,
to pay. There's a million dollars at the end of adjusting I've been reality shows are dumb.
But I understand why people are participating as hers that much money involve yes, it's stupid money, but what
I won't understand, is in a few years from the time
they filmed there try out video, which was rejected and denied outright. He would be making five hundred thousand dollars
a day. Yeah do I just shows how life can take turns you're not expecting exactly. I don't I just he was such a dish of old. Looking kid. He lived out of two garbage bags. He had all this closing and his laptop. That was all his worldly possessions. He was not materialistic at all. He lived in a basement of an apartment, complex, rent, free,
much. He would do weird things like you didn't shower with hot water for a month, just a test himself to see if he could go without the convenience.
of the modern day. He went
the University of Texas at Dallas. He got a bachelors agree in physics. He would go on to Penn State,
and get a masters and material science and engineering, and he studied Crystal Crystal Augur feed
which is some weird science that determines the arrangements of atoms or something I don't even know. Wait. A minute said this:
non, materialistic highly educated man need
to run an illegal website. Well, yes, yes,
one of those geniuses that isn't challenged in life. He tried the dot com bust and he lost his ass
He also tried day trading and lost all his money with that two, while he was in college
she was very much involved with libertarian groups and groups about free market free thought,
and he really was an idealist and a believer and he would go to debates on the college campuses to debate libertarianism and how you should be free.
to do with what you will he don't do anything with your body. Ingest anything into your body. Have the freedom to do what
You want as long as you're, not harming others without government oversight, of course, so because he
had a successful family and friends and he was floundering doing nothing with his life. He thought, while I'll take my
libertarian believe and I'll take my motivation and due diligence, and I will do something with it. He was
very much into marijuana,
and psychedelic mushrooms. He would learn how to grow these things. He would say
it programming and creating this website that he built completely on
the tore network or the onion network Harry Wanna call it using VP ends an unencrypted laptop. His laptop would have to profiles on it. One was for Ross and his personal life and the other half was his secret identity. He
spent about fifty thousand dollars. I have no idea where he got this money from maybe loans or his parents, and he started a
shhh room grow operation that he had in this crappy shack of a place that he spent. Maybe a thousand bucks a month on, and I built this web.
so the website was to sell mushrooms. It was much more than that. The website
was to give drug dealers a safe platform
sell their drugs. So this is sort of in Ebay type operation. Where
sellers could come on and buyers could come on and transactions
happen only there dealing in illegal goods exactly that's exactly what it was and he
The ceo of this hidden secret ebay and he is going to take a commission
off every sail on the site, but nobody
knows what this site is, people that are involved with the illegal
activities are gonna, be a little bit has hesitant to just jump on a site and start selling drugs because it might be a honeypot trap. I on Foresman, so he has to be the first dealer on the site and he is the first merchant or seller
the site not to derail you too much, but to explain a honeypot. It's basically something that so attractive that people will want to try it out right, yeah, two entrap criminals, yeah, here's, a car
and unlocked vehicle parked on the side of the road and are not so great part of town and its Bogdan wired to trap. Whoever tries to steal the car or the actual saying it's a honey pot, that's supposed to attract flies, and then they can't get out. There also used
trap hackers, yeah he's the first seller on the site, selling mushrooms and to drum up
tryst or drive traffic to the site. He goes out. Two tons of drug forms like once called the shrew Murray. Where
Bunch of guys that grow and do psychedelic, mushrooms go and talk and hang out online and so he'll go out there and you ll say: hey guys,
have you seen this new silk road site? It's kind of cool looks like you: can
buy and sell illegal drugs check it out. That's
like spam, mail right, we'll ever
It was serious, though, because I was in the form and people I hear you know I got these motions, the really good, and then he would reply like hey D, probably try selling,
on the site of the ever heard of it. So some people.
And trying it out, and then they have a good result from it and that just builds up the business. Its word of mouth grass roots
here in order to go on these drug forms, you have to register an account with an email address or what not and then poster messages and all that
Ross is just starting out so he's not thinking about how to protect him
he's thought of a lot of things such as the torn outward Vps and whatnot, but these still amateur and I just had said- he's kind of a he's, not a criminal, so he's not thinking like a criminal. Quite yet
just thinking of security in his heart. He believes that what he's doing really shouldn't be illegal? Oh yeah, that's the whole point of this website which we shouldn't gloss over. Is he one hundred percent believes drugs should be legal and he thinks his websites going to change the government and society and the laws key one hundred percent does not acknowledge,
What he's doing is wrong or immoral in any way. Ok, so he doesn't believe it's immoral and he also
something of a point, because that's why alcohol is legal in the United States because it was banned for a time
so many people were doing it. Eventually, it just became stupid to fight it here exactly and he thinks he's thee
Yes, the Al Capone or whatever of the species online. The shack he's renting for his grow operation. His landlord shows up one day because he thinks he s, like I don't know a leaky toilet or something and walks in and sees what Ross is doing.
and threatens to call the cops on him. It's kind of like when those situations where he walks up and says
ensure- and this is your Satan. Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were somebody else yes Ross,
Stu, I hastily moved his girl operation somewhere else and at the same time the only thing Ross is doing with his time
is running a nonprofit bookselling company, where you read a book at sitting on yourself, while you donate it to his nonprofit anyone, he resells it and ships it out to somebody else, or he donates them to prisons, will now he's got this silk road operation so he's using as non profit to ship drugs out now, not just books, and he has a girlfriend named Julia who he confides in that's a second mistake
I'll? Let you figure out his first one he's running out of time in his day, doing a non profit organization having a girlfriend and running a drug website on the torn out work we experienced
problems. You know we have day jobs and we have the pod Caston and then families
it's very reliable.
Even know. What he's doing is criminal but its related, because he has problems just like anyone else. So his nonprofit bookselling company is a big warehouse.
your shipping warehouse and all the books are on shelves categorized in the back, and he is shipping mushrooms out of this warehouse in one day he hears this huge ruckus. Just this huge,
crash, and he thinks he's been raided. He thinks he's been caught and this is
very early on in the inception of the silk road, but he's paranoid is hell, and here,
the noises in the banging stops and he walked to the back warehouse where he sees that one of the book shelves has collapsed and then knocked into another bookshelf, and then you had this big domino effect were all his books just get thrown.
but the floor he takes. This is a sign to shut down as non profit because he does another time for it and even know it's kind of a front for him this to ship drugs. He doesn't need it to ship drugs. He can do that from anywhere. It just shows his paranoia that something happens. He immediately thinks it's that the cops banging on his door. He will recoup his fifty thousand dollars that he invested into this pretty quickly sewing via the mushrooms on the site, because he gets huge profits and it doesn't cost much for him to grow them. The sites growing and popularity and Gawker put
an article about it. It goes pretty viral and brings a lot more popularity to the site. A lot more merchants or new sellers start joining the site. We were too
about how this is kind of like Ebay, right, well, ROS wrote the code for the site himself and he's not a programmer is not a developer at all
like we sell our merchandise on our site. Will we have to have a shopping cart to do that? So you put an item in the shopping, cart and any check out
Well, he couldn't use a shopping cart because that would be tied back to him, so he had to take code from a shopping cart in cop
it into a site. Well, when you use a lot of these shopping cart apps, they will take a small percentage of the sale and that's how you pay for the shopping cart up while he's using Bitcoin for all the transactions. Bitcoin is
though currency that all digital, while the shopping, cart app that he store code from was still trying to
a percentage of every sail, but it had nowhere to go because he wasn't registered to any company. So bitcoins were just falling out into the ether
with every sail and he was losing money. It is site almost went bankrupt right after the Gawker. I recall went by
I've because he had so many transactions again whenever we talk about any crime
all serial killer. Whatever people think there these mad geniuses- and this guy was almost through before he even started
while he was a genius when he was not you,
realising his genius in this operation. It seems like he wasn't utilizing other people's resource
is because he was doing it all himself. The drive for him here was more of his libertarianism there rather than his
education. I mean he was a smart guy, I'm not trying to say he was an idiot. I mean this guy
they run circles around me, but he was not a developer, but yet he taught himself programming languages and literally built Ebay from scratch. So it's not perfect is coding, will be crap this entire time and you will be hacked over and over and they'll be flaws and security. Holes and injustice shopping cart, business of him
just going broke while the sites popularity grows. You really can't do it all on your own and out, so he
to bring in other people and not tell them what he's doing any as one friend that's like, I guess he's
professor at some college. Any has him fix his shopping, cart issue and fix some of his security holes, and then he pays this man with magic mushrooms.
So again, I dont know how good or bad quality this new code even is, but he's trucking along.
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aid episodes right now on Amazon, music or wondering, plus after the darker article came out a New York,
senator Name Chuck Schumer gets window. This demon site
based on our society, and he holds a Senate hearing where he talks about the site and how the government needs to
down what happens when, like Maryland, Manson or some obscene
and is coming to town, and you have a budget church groups or mothers against bad make up
testing them saying: don't come to town weapons, whales, the difference between
oh hey. I I can't believe I missed that counts.
they were here just last weekend. I didn't know the ban was playing
of that band. And oh look
guess, who's gonna be here next weekend or who is
band, and why are they so horrible? Now, I'm definitely gonna go check it out here. Everybody is talking about this band
I'm gonna go give to listen.
myself. So all press is good press and
Humor literally gave Ross all brick and silk road, the best infomercial ever and his sight exploded at that point. So he has an influx of,
popularity tonnes more merchants and sellers and, of course,
he's getting this commission off every sail. His girlfriend doesn't quite agree with his website because at first she's, like others,
bunch of pot head sullen, mushrooms and weed and ecstasy, but now
their selling heroin now they're selling fit in all, and then a merchant registers in his selling guns fire
arms on the site as soon as you start selling guns and of black market? I don't know if I'm ok with that point. Okay, so here's the question: if someone ingested drug they can harm themselves right yeah.
At least we're talking about direct harm. When you sell a gun, no illegally, then you're giving people the ability to harm others exactly it. There's no background check, there's no check imbalance. Here anyone can buy it and, if you're buying a gun off
the silk road. I don't think you're, just a regular responsible, Gunnar go into the shooting range I think you're buying that gun, because well your criminal, so the. Why didn't he recognized this? Well, he was a believer in his libertarianism, and everything goes in. Everything is
free market without government oversight and the very extreme version of libertarian. As I was
to say, because libertarianism
can mean long as you're not harming anyone else. It should fly right, yeah, but selling illegal guns that gets into a whole different, a whole different area. When you, too,
about personal rights and what is freedom so for me, yeah. That starts to be a questionable thing.
yeah. I think I'm drawing a line there too,
between the Senate hearing,
now guns being sold on the site, his girlfriend Julia S kind of had enough. She is not cool with this and she
you'll end up breaking up with Ross. She will hang out with her friend Erika and they will be smoking,
pot and Julia we'll just have to tell Erika. I have a secret that I want to tell you. My ex boyfriend Ross is running the silk road shortly after that Erika unduly
get into a huge fight and are still hanging out with Ross, even though their broken up rossland of throwing Erika out of his apartment. Now. Erika has this secret and a chip on her shoulder yeah the next day Erika will post.
On Russia's Facebook wall. I wonder if law enforcement would be interested in your drug dealing site, so posted on his wall for all to see he deletes it. He makes a frantic phone calls
Erica, crying and screaming for forgiveness and to not tell anybody else. She feel sympathy for her.
and promises not to tell anybody else but again
you gotta seeing that as much as we all think that
we're so smart and can beat the system were all human.
and we innately screw everything up. So here
smart guy with all of his technology in safety things, but it takes one person and he's told now his girlfriend, who has told Erika and he's ended up telling his college, professor guy, who helps him what the code, what he's doing so
three people now he will be friend a guy named Variety Jones on the site. He goes by D J and
he Jones will end up being his right hand, man. He will give Ross a lot of advice about how he should run the site and how he should conceal his identity and they come up with calling him.
the dread pirate Roberts, which, if you ve, seen the princess bride. You know what the dread pirate Roberts is or dp are for short and essentially it's a pirate who goes by the name.
He'll step down, and somebody else will step up and they become the dread. Pirate Roberts
So is this ongoing cycle of the dread pirate? But it's different people who take thou now as this because
he's. Looking down the road and thinking he's looking down there,
silk road and thinking eventually, I
that beside maybe I've made enough money and someone else will take this operation over
depends on the day. You ask him: yes, he's thinking that or he's thinking on the dread pirate roberts- I am not Ross, so it's possible deniability
Andy website for his moderators and amongst his minions. He goes by captain, not the captain, but just captain so no trick hunger at her. He would run a tight ship and he rules with sort of an iron fist
at one point he decides to change the commission rates on the site so
you're selling any drugs,
like a small item sale. That's like fifty dollars or less he takes ten per cent of the sale
but if you're selling more like larger quantities, then he only takes like one per cent of the sale so he's trying to drive larger quantity cell
on the side and when this happens well, what happened when patriarch said there are going to change their rates, people get pissed people revolt and
attack and shame and whatever and when you're running a deep web criminal site and people dont like your new rates. Well, they start hacking the site they start holding the site ransom. They start threatening the people that run the site,
its mutiny. Yet sit literally is near me and
his right hand, man, Variety Jones, who is registered on as a seller on the site and is very active in the forms. Nobody knows that he is actually the right hand. Man
Helping run the silk road, so variety Jones will hang out in the forms and kind of identify who the troublemakers are and identify how bad the problem is and then report back to Ross. Who then in turn will ban people from the site or try to smooth things over but cross pretty much tells everybody did go F o deal with it because he created this in their only here because of his creation and if they don't like it, then leave
so he's not making friends. On top of this, you have pot dealers selling alongside gun dealers you can only imagine
they're not getting along either and the pot dealers are not cool with Gandhi.
theirs and the gun dealers are like shut up heavy theirs.
In fighting on the site, so Ross
the higher moderators to keep people from fighting in
flaming each other. This is just like Ebay. This is just like how our Facebook group for John, why we have that moderator, so things don't
Right yeah mean sometimes you operate within a vacuum. You only know about how you ve been triggered, and then you have to deal with that and you don't think about the effects of what will happen once you start shaming somebody
or getting angry, but this bringing in moderators, though he has to give them elevated privileges. Yes, he does. He has to give them
access to the site, but when he that's these people, they have to send him a copy of their drivers, licence that they scanned or taken a photo of. They have to expose their identity to him, while he stood
stays anonymous. They want to help. They want to be part of the site. They won't be part of the move,
so they're willing to do these things. Just in let's
talk about a man by the name of Jerry, dare Yegg high, and I'm glad you said his name, because I would have butchered it around the inception of the silk road which wasn t
eleven Jared was working at the Chicago airport. He was a customs,
immigration official. You worked for De Age S and he started to see an influx of drugs coming through the airport. Specifically, he saw these very ornate envelopes that would have a single pink ecstasy pill and them he would have the pay. I guess male collectors start bring
him all of these envelopes or packages of drugs because they emblem were so unique. It was easy to say here's what we're looking for and then they could collect all of them yet
because it was a system put in place by the people selling these, and he would check the manifest he would see Spirit
return, addresses or no return.
Address specific phone numbers, just things are registered and he figured out of a formula. A method to identify win. Drugs were coming through his airport, but this dude was knew. He was a rookie. He had only been on the job like months is a smart guy.
he's diligent: he will start in forming other officials, other ah, a customs agents at other airports, J, F K and other ports around the country and start telling them giving them the formula of what the look for hand he's really good at his job, but
He starts stepping on people's toes, because this new guy is so good at his job is making others look bad his
provider will actually tell em to back off and give him like a dressing down. I guess
this will go on for a few months and then Jared will pray, much get fed up and say I'm doing my job. You can't stop me all future communications with me will have to be in writing or through. My lawyer,
and that's that, but isn't this real life- you get someone
who just just good at what they're doing and and everyone else gets upset tat jealousy
its pride whatever, and
as things are more important than getting your job done correctly, the hour efficiently. It's all politics, even at the customs level I mean this guy's, not a huge agent he's a dude that checks, passports and checks. Male buckets that common on aeroplanes. That's it!
and he's pissing people off Jared is slowly
figuring out that there is this thing called the silk road where people can
I and sell drugs online. It's not so private anymore, and he asked his supervisor about the silk road in his partner. There are likely to everybody, knows about silk road. This hundreds of cases about it ensured will go out and search for cases and no one's logged case about it. He's like the first guy to start logging cases about the silk road, because everyone
speakers there doing it, but everyone knows about silk road, but no one has filed a report on it yet go figure. Meanwhile,
you have another man named coral mark force. The fourth, but he's pretty much goes by Karl he's an ex de agent who had a drinking problem
Can you gotta do you I, and so they gave him. I think they call it a solar agent job which pretty much your given a desk job where you to show up when the sun comes up and you go home before the sun goes down and he's in this dead in position, but he was a very aggressive door kicker and
is drug fighting days well, Jared and others are asking the government and forces that be
for resources to fight this horrible by
non society. Silk road and Karl gets a visit to his desk. Hey. If you want, you can help investigate the silk road thing and I said, acts
the age at, but really he was still a d agent, just kind of free assigned, there's a bunch, more agents that get assigned to this
I'm just gonna, go through some of the more big names here. Chris tar Bell was the lead FBI, investigator and kind of the team led that started
bringing all of the investigators and all of the operations across the United States together to work together.
And then you had the assistant d, a siren turner when he shows up everybody stops talking and listens because he's a big deal and then you have an IRS agent by the name of Gary Alford and Gary was obsessed with the silk road. Like a lot of people get he saw that Gawker Article and he read it three times, and I guess Gary has a weird tick where he does everything three times. I don't know and Gary because he's pray much an iris agent and kind of a very thorough Taipei personality. He does a Google search for
the silk road and the timeframe of like twenty eleven when it first came on to the market, and he narrows his search down to just a few hits and all these hits you get
are literally on these little drug websites, like the summary where he seen posts by a guy say: hey, you guys should go check out: silk road,
inspire guy- that's going by the name Altoid
Gary, will contact these websites, these drugs sites and say hey, guess:
the information on these accounts and a lot of the
Parents are registered under a name called Frosty, which is bogus, but one of them is registered
under a Gmail account called Ross overtake at Gmail that come so,
Iris agent literally
although the case in fifteen seconds of who was running the silk road with a few google searches. But who does he tell
he is assigned to the silk road taskforce. He things up
guy on on the number one star in the show, and he
is someone to go to this FBI building where
Aaron Turner and kissed her bell whereat. He shows up to a room full of others
per stars and other investigators who have
kinds of information that they have been gathering on the silk road, including Jared, who is very diligent and
Harry feels a little deflated. I guess he doesn't think that he's as important as he once felt and after Jared stands up and
about this. Like two year, investigation has been running at all. The evidence is collected. Gary doesn't feel like speaking up during this meat.
And he literally has the name of the owner of the silk road and his back pocket
No one else has no, no one as this guy's identity, but there's a lot of infighting here at this meeting to because Christopher Bell and Sarah Turner are saying: ok, everybody give us everything. You got well every law enforcement officers department once the bust for themselves. They want to own it. They want the credit, so they start telling them. While this is an act of investigation- and I can't give you this information and then they start fighting and arguing just being jerks to each other, and this really bothers me govern
departments are supposed to work together gets their job there, the government and they operate in these silos, where they feel they are the most important self perpetuating department in the government aside,
though, is actually a corporate term has nothing to do with criminal activity and corporations debate
Many will feel that they are more important than other departments and they will not share information or work well with others. They become a silo and not integrated
may I use all things you don't. Repair,
anything. You don't say: ok, here's how all work from here on out. You have to create a whole other department to handle the problem. This might be a little bit of a stretch, but when nine eleven happened and why
were attacked- the- U S. Government was blind to this, because the CIA had one side of the conversation from
Harris over on the other side of the world and the FBI had the other side of it.
conversation of the ones here in the states, but they wouldn't talk to each other and we had
thousands of american lives lost. Because to U S? Government departments didn't feel like playing ball, and now we have the departure
of homeland security that has over two hundred and thirty thousand employees over forty billion dollar budget, because two other departments won't talk to each other. We have multiple too.
events sitting in this room talking bout, the silk road that won't play ball with each other. This is why people like ROS exist. These anti,
meant they no leave me alone, get off my yard kind of people because they see the government blows
They see the government and competencies and they think. Well. Why should you tell me what
do when you can't. Even do it right yourself, and I think this is, I guess this is why I see Ross behaved away
does is because he sees all the same issues and problems that are that arise and in his own investigation, just kind of shows how poorly the government can get along
each other, but Mr Alford here who had this critical information to the case, doesn't utilise it now, and I know I have this picture in my
ed of all these guys in a room there, all just different departments, but they all
their little bit of information on Osama Bin Laden and who are you
a guy in the back of the room whose literally got the corpse
solid Bin Laden under his chair. Instead of participating, instead of walking
through the middle of the room door,
begging, Osama towards the front and sang guesswork, guys it's over. Instead of doing that,
It's like he drags Osama backdoors like our right there.
Like me, they want me, they don't need me
makes no sense to me. It's, I think it's a pride thing. I think it's a bad attitude. I think it's he fell,
like he was more important and then he was shown that he was just another cog in the wheel. But again his answer was essentially a blog post on drug form registered
email address. Does that really say this? Is the dread pirate raw
This is really the guy that runs this whole site. That has zero criminal.
we or record, even if it doesn't he's, got the best
leave all of em and he's dealing with other aid.
and who have phenomenal
grounds in computer forensics and in internet and network security and he's the guy
breaks? It open and I guess he does
realize it, and so this is
an opportunity that falls by the wayside. Now, Christopher Bell and the FBI, they will get a hold of a dumb drive from De Iceland gum
meant that literally has the entire silk road server on it like a mere image. Ay, a digital copy of it
when they first get a hold of the thumb, DR its encrypted, and they don't know
how to get into it and there, like. All this is a dead end and their pissed off then
One of the supervisors is like will then get password for it. What password?
MRS days later after they gather thumb, drive when he says the pass code is try to crack this, and I say
don't know what that passed. It was set by the Iceland government to poke fun at the Americans or, if literally, that, was the encryption code that they set on the silk road server. I don't remember, but regardless this
again showing how the government doesn't talk to each other like Bailey
We had the silk road server hand delivered to them by the Iceland government, but didn't say: oh here's, the password for
and there's a lot of shady allegations about how they got this copy of the server
and that the Iceland government, Winton Hacks,
hers without warrants and what not, but just because they have a copy of the server does
exactly mean they have much because everybody's going by aliases
pseudonyms and different names on the site, so they see transactions, they see accounts, but they dont know who
One is, but it is useful information, because when the government is trying
bring down a criminal organisation; they need to understand how it works. So if you have a copy of the server, you can understand how it works, and then, if you attempt to infiltrate that organization, nine have something,
work with now. You know the guidelines. Now you know how to conduct herself and I would say, that's pretty crucial information yeah and what they did get was an ip address. This was again
bad coding and when you registered on the silk road site here, I think it was like a capture or something you know. Any of that.
openness, stupid letters when you register on a website somewhere in that code, was the ip address of the silk road,
and when they did a search for this ip address, they linked it back to a coffee shop in San Francisco and it was called memo Toby's. I think I might be pronouncing wrong. Somebody had logged into the wifi at this coffee shop and access the silk road, so they're putting all these pieces together. Meanwhile, you have another department that intercepted a bunch of envelopes that had fake ideas in them. One envelope had nine fake ideas all with different names and states in locations.
But all of them had the same pitcher, because you get a fake ideas. Gotta look like you all of em had Ross all Brics pitcher on them, but every idea had a different name, indifferent address, but they did have the address of Ross his apartment, where he was living in San Francisco
But there was a justification going on in San Francisco at the time and so cross streets were Miss labelled, so they kept going and knocking on the wrong persons door every time they are trying to confront the guidance,
getting these vague ideas, so you mean they didn't actually have. Maybe an officer from San Francisco go with them. Tell figure this out now. Eventually they do go, knock on Ross S, door and Ross will come out and talk to these two agents his paranoia is off. The charts is like I'm caught
screwed I'm done for, but these two officers that show up say, hey we're not
arrest, you we're not gonna, do anything it's alive,
suspicious somebody getting nine vague ideas in the mail. We want to make sure you
not a terrorist and Ross as like. Oh they don't know who they're talking to
they don't know who the hell. I am it's a rock
like you, I just got those big cities,
Why do you need nine he's like I just bottom, and they say why? Wouldn't one obtain
vague ideas on the internet, and this,
how brazen Ross outbreak is, he says what one could go out and download the tour browser get out of european and glasses website called the silk road
by thick ideas. Never just- and this is just like, if you're out at a bakery
and you're making small talk with the woman that runs it.
and she says something like you know. I just love less aimed to rhyme pod cas you being the host of a true rhyme, podcast might say
so you must be to generation why podcast right
from there I mean you're, just promoting your show. That's all he's doing right, yeah, because
The government does illegal stuff all the time, I'm sure they want to participate in this. So he's totally up front about how you buy vague ideas, oft silk road without saying who he is, he gives them a fake name, even so they just take that they file a report that they visited. This address for fake ideas and they talk to a guy named John
sure something. But now it's on file. Everybody has something that they would give anything for end.
Fortunately, there's people out there who will explain
there's. Nothing! Nothing from wondering comes a story about true
I love you so much power.
you're. Gonna have to completely submit to me and give me your complete and utter obedience and
far some people are willing to go to get what they want. I'm Stephanie Beatrice Twin flames: premiers on February, twenty on apple outcasts.
on using or you can listen one week early and out free right now by subscribing to wondering plus an apple podcast or the wonder, yeah.
Meanwhile, you have,
Carl and another guy who are jumping on
help road and their registered accounts and Carl.
DEA agent, he's kind, gone rogue and he's registered an account called knob which some Debbie Colson
he says, he's a big time drug smugglers and he's talking to the dread pirate Roberts directly and he offers to buy the site from him,
and, of course this throws his supervisor and all the investigators and an outrage because they're all trying
Bessie this guy in this, do
jumps on the site and just says hey manner by the sight from here and at this point Ross is doing pretty well for himself.
Even no he's making so much money, his girlfriend Julia Wolf, who wanted to go out
like a nice dinner, while he would take her to talk Bell and still live out of his two bags and crappy apartments, but he's making money off bitcoins and at the time that this
Red started. Bitcoin was around a buck like ninety,
I sense a bitcoin towards the end
The saga of the silk road one Bitcoin was worth about. Four hundred dollars
so not only is ROS making money off commissions and drug deals. His bitcoin has gone up four hundred times so he's making bank the deeds worth millions.
So when Coral says, hey man, I wanna buy the site from you Raw says: make me an offer course car,
says, won't. Give me your data sheets or
financial. So I can kind of praise it and figure out what they know. What the site is worth Ross Pray
Much tell them. I'm not gonna give you that information, but if it's not nine figures or better, I'm not interested, which means
a hundred million dollars up to a billion dollars, and I
think Ross was undervaluing his sight at this point. So
He literally now has built and is running a multi,
hundred million dollar site. It's insane and the government seems to be powerless to stop it, but the government has busted
a few people that are affiliated with the site, whether they got drugs
to their house, or they were moderators stuff like that, so some time in two thousand thirteen
a man by the name of kurdish Green, has been identified and taken into custody
Now he's one of silk roads moderators and we talked about those earlier. He disliked folds immediately starts cooperating with authorities with this task force
and turning over his logging credentials. He explains how he
logs into the sight. He explains how to use
site. So as a moderator that view
was resetting passwords or changing status of user accounts or even resetting pins, basically he's giving them everything
This is going to start a whole other issue with silk road, but he explains to a couple of guys
Who will miss, use this information, how to move Bitcoin and how to high
it imagine this. You have a criminal organization, that's pulling in tons of money,
and then one of the moderators who's been given elevated credentials is now in custody and giving up the goods. So
even though he doesn't know who's running the site. He's able to give all these agents access, and so the problem is its second
thing else. You have people who will use
information for good. Your people who use
Information for criminal activities
So these guys always agents now have access to all this bitcoin. Essentially millions of dollars worth, and there are a couple of agents here who
are not on the side of good and their names are Carl forests, which we already talked about him and then a a secret sir.
This special agent by the name of Sean Bridges,
to these two agents, independent of one another, we'll start exploiting the dread, Pirate Roberts and silk road map-
force starts using aliases,
he was already using the name, knob and
it's, how he was sort of infiltrating silk road, but he was
using aliases to work. To get
money out of Ross outbreak in different ways- I mean this- is actually kind of a brilliant thing, so
using an alias he extorted two hundred
fifty thousand from Ross
by telling him he wouldn't provides
an information to the task force that was in
stay, getting silk road if he paid up literally Carl forces now a turncoat,
he is now a double agent and telling Ross. I work for the governor,
that's investigating you and you need to pay me yeah and and basically yoke,
safer because now this information, I'm sitting on well I'll, just keep sitting on it. Then
also uses other aliases. One of them is french made. He offers to give ROS certain info.
Asian about the investigation into silk road. If he pays a hundred thousand dollars its extortion,
so Ross doesn't know that this is the same person. He just thinks there are different people
involve now and he
so paranoid about the government getting to him and because he made
how much money he figures will have just pay up and he'll be safe. It's kind of like when the mob enters your shop and now they my
break a vase or something in there saying you know a lot of stuff
get damaged around here, but if our pockets realigned a little bit,
here's. Your shop would be safe. Your pants for protection, but its protection against them
whether he was extorting or
in bribed force with then
moves. The money to his own personal accounts, so
point. He can't even say later. If he's com
oh, this is just part of my investigation. He can't do that because
these moving, this money he's gotten to personal accounts. This doesn't set off any red flags
he thing no one knows about it and I think part of it is because, since
this is such a new thing. No one was really prepared to deal with it. You know what I mean like
investigating it. We had Alfred
who came along and said. Ah I'm gonna curious about this, and then
within a matter of moments, figures out on me now
to himself, but he figures out.
Who's running the whole thing. These gaps
No one really knew how to figure this out. I think it gave him a certain protection there, but pearl doesn't stop there because he has big dreams. I think so. He attempts to move this digital com
see this bitcoin to better, conceal it, and so he also invest in a Bitcoin exchange in its coin and Katy. I think it
a hundred and ten thousand dollars, and he becomes the de facto compliance officer for
I am so since he's a government agent now you can do background checks on people, so any
dealing with that site. He can check over them
make sure they're good to go for the site. So it's a safety thing while he's in his position to do that. He also had
Quantum Katy freeze and account? He says this account of shady: you need a freeze, it
This guy, you has quite a bit bitcoin his account gets frozen and then Carl for
Louis moves all of the guys bitcoins out into his own account, and that was worth it.
Two hundred ninety seven thousand dollars worth at the time and
used his supervisors own signature stamp to attempt to free up his own account at then MO, where his account I've been frozen because
had questioned his credentials and his activity. They were like
sums up with this, so some other de facto compliance officer had a problem with his account froze it, and then
He used his supervisors credentials to try and force them to unfreezing account like you,
My authorization on freeze it- I mean I real
there's no honour amongst thieves, but rosson, silk road,
at least they were like: we have a product, you buy a product, it's all fair
somebody rips you off. We have a rating system and we ban them from the site, Carl's, just a thief he's abusing its power. I don't agree with what any of these people are doing, so his activity started in two thousand thirteen, also in two thousand thirteen.
secret service agent, Sean Bridges is using the login credentials and getting into silk road. In fact,
as soon as he got them. He seem to be moving on Bitcoin that belong to the dread, Pirate Roberts and on February twelve he formed COS
TIM International investments. L L see any open an account at fidelity investments, so he could accept funds from Mount docks. Launder now mount docks was a bitcoin exchange. It was the largest bitcoin exchanged for a time and it was based in Japan. Well Mount docks and I'll try to keep this brief, because this could be another episode. Probably, but they said
we're getting hacked and, unfortunately, Mount docks. On June nineteenth of two thousand eleven suffered a hacker attack which caused Bitcoin
value on that exchange to fall the one cent, each ok, surgeon,
imagine Bitcoin being worth quite a bit of money,
now falling to one cent, and this was a temporary thing. It lasted just minutes.
In that time allotted Bitcoin, went out the window right and then later in October, of two thousand eleven more breaches
ok, so in the initial breach they lost about twenty five thousand bitcoins, the total loss for Mount docks and for those who had accounts there was a
point seven: five million dollars, so troubles continued and finally
In February, seventh of two thousand fourteen Mount docks had a halt, all bitcoin transactions- all withdrawals, then it went completely dark and shut down on February twenty. Fourth toothache.
fourteen, the next day they announced they were done so get this Sean Bridges,
was trying to move his Bitcoin out of Mount docks. But, prior to this he had
onto his superiors and said. I know,
God is having a lot of troubles and I know we're going to end up serving a warrant, a seizure warrant. I want to be the guy that takes-
on May ninth, two thousand thirteen just
two days after he moved his money out here
served a seizure warrant to Mount got in
its owners accounts. He would then move two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
whereas from his fidelity account to a personal account at a
bank under another name, and this is because, at the time his own task force was under investigation. He put his money and Mount GOTS to lie.
Under it and conceal it, then he knows there about to be rated because he's the one serving the warrant. So we put
this money out, which is insider trading, and then he serves the war against them.
he's just making it very clear that when
These guys are investigated when that happens, that they were taking advantage of their positions and their knowledge and exploiting it for personal gain had nothing to do with the investigation. They could have used their information for good, but they used it for bad because at the same time Jared,
our customs agent. He was able to entice another moderator on the site to give up her address and her identity, and then he turned her into an informant and he logs and with her account
and starts getting insider information about the silk road using a Ahmad account, but guess what Jared doesn't do embezzling still bitcoin
so Curtis Green, was a moderator on silk road ROS the dread. Pirate Roberts is losing Bitcoin
so someone stealing from him and
has it in his mind that its Curtis Green, whose stealing the bitcoin from him
but he really has it in his mind that its Curtis, because he's being told that by these other accounts, ran by karl- and he doesn't quite know that Curtis has been busted
but he thinks that Curtis is stealing the bitcoin when really it's Carl, stealing the bitcoin and then lying about it and saying it's Curtis. Coral is playing this drugs smuggling bad guy and he's talking to the dread. Pirate Roberts,
he says: hey what do you want me to do? I know people we could take care of this, this thief, whose stealing your bitcoin right and Ross as I now pay you to take care of
this a lot of these items and chats are being conducted on a encrypted chat room,
So even the government, who has a copy of the server,
can't see these these interactions now Carl has persuaded Ross that he needs to do something against thieves cuz. If he shows weakness, then he'll just be taken advantage of and that they have to take care of Curtis Green Carl Force and agent Bridge has devised a plan to fake Curtis, Green's murder and they tell Curtis okay, we're going to have to rough you up and make it look real, be very convincing. Otherwise, the dread pirate won't catch on, so they actually beat Curtis, Green and and torture him for real and they drowned him in a tight beat them. They bruised them up real good. This isn't proper police procedure
and then they take odors of him as if he's dead and they are paid by ROS for this hit that they have performed. There are other allegations that ROS had other hits done on.
members of the silk road or other people. But this is the one that's documented the best, so they have the silk road, sir,
over and by the way the servers called frosty and remember Ross had registered his name as frosty on some these drugs sites.
so there is a connection, they also know that he's functioning
out of America. They can check out here
post on the silk road and no his movements going offer those and our own
I arrest friend Gary Alford. He just has
knowing feeling that I know this is ROS. I know I found the sky and he goes back and he has the office rerun Ross, his name and all of a sudden, the fake Idee report, pops up, get
like what. What is that? Some agents when talk to some guy about nine fake ideas in San Francisco? So
takes that information to Chris Turbot and says. I think this is the guy and Chris our belts
Where was this guy in San Francisco, and they look up his name? They look up his address
and LO and behold it's down the street from that coffee shop. That was the only record of him logging in to the silk road, and the like this has to be. The guy we have is now
We have him in San Francisco a block away from where he login at a coffee shop it just it all makes sense to them. We have frost.
That's the name of the server and we have
His gmail account- and we have him logging in San Francisco, so they
take all this information and they start to go after Ross,
Ross is kind of an elusive little bugger and he protects himself
so they know that his laptop is encrypted and they catch.
go kickin his door with a swat team because all yes adduced
close the lead in his laptop and they can get him in the act they have to like git him with his fingers on the keyboard somehow, so they devise a plan,
so they're keeping an eye on Ross his place, their able to track him from his house to a
I rarely in San Francisco, known as the Glen Park Public Library, because he always connected from free wifi spots. He never connected from home
he sits down any opens up the laptop and he starts working with it.
As they know his laptop is secured. Just unjust, explain how they need to catch him using silk road. Essentially, so they have a couple of
The agents who appear to be a middle aged asian couple, who are arguing in the library
and they're, getting more and more animated. And finally, the woman
Yell something out and Ross turns his head
He doesn't know it, but there's an FBI agent waiting right by who will jump over and grab his laptop
he's essentially distracted. That's the moment that he's exposed, so they grab a laptop he's logged in through the city.
Road and they take him down to the ground and arrest him, but they need to plug it introduced.
bring with it right away because the euro, the screen favour, can go on and you know the battery can die so they have to take this laptop directly to their
it forensics team and have it analyzed immediately because they're on a short time frame now what if he didn't have it plugged in you know it's like your battery on your phone. You know it could be on fifteen percent, so they have
to move quickly he's logged in as his dread. Pirate Roberts account it's it's a perfect execution of a plan. Now Ross he's got a lot of money, so he can hire some good legal represent
Asian, but the evidence against him is overwhelming, to say the least,
they have his
social media profiles of Ross and then they have his dp are I IMS and chats and they sink up perfectly with em
under Thailand this weekend going away or I'm gonna, taking a trip to Australia, and then they go check out deep here,
the count on the silk road, any psych, ok, everybody,
run the show on God, I'm going to Australia completely matches up
We will have this bizarre that he's
the site and there was another dread. Pirate Roberts I took over, but when you
check, all the items and all the logs and everything in him literally on his computer logged in
as DP are when they arrest him. It's pretty obvious that he was still running the sight. His dick
ants is trying to say that they they needed,
and then use in always not gonna get a fair trial. Because
This New York Senator is already gone on the national stage and said that we need to shut the site down, and this is the guy that runs it the judge.
will not allow the defence. The strategy of Ross wasn't running the site, which I find that kind of questionable x. I think. Ok, I didn't murder that person, but now you're gonna tell my defence team. Your strategy can't be that you didn't murdered my person.
oh that's kind of crappy. They filed a motion for discovery and the prosecutor sat on like seventy five hundred documents against Ross
really some until like two days before the trial began, Sir Ross wasn't
well to establish any sort of defence. Also, we had these two agents that have gone robe
and had been stealing in doing all these really corrupt things. Rossi. Defence team is not privy to this.
wars and disallowed from using any of their evidence against him, because the judges like no that's not your problem is a separate issue but in the defences opinion, the illegal act
it is by these agents, expose problems with the investigation, in other words, if they had logging credentials for silk road
and were exploiting money out of it or using silk road. Then they were actually helping to operate it. Now they could of literally taken over the pirates account. You know the captain's account and been functioning as the captain. They had access to do that again, I don't think they did, but his defences neutered. Now the other thing the prosecution does, which saw
I have not even trying to defend Ross here, but I just have problems like you can nail this God of the wall. You don't have to play all these dirty tricks, the beginning of the trial. They read off his charges and there's a whole litany of charges accessory to murder.
Causing death. They are saying that he was responsible, for I think I remember the kids name, but
He was in Australia. Somebody bought drugs off the silk road, they go to this hotel party and they give or sell the drugs to another kid who takes them and then freaks out and jumps out of window and they're like well. The drugs came from the silk road there for Roswell Durak is responsible.
You think selling drugs is despicable. I'm not gonna fight you on it. I think heroin in these hard drugs are are not good for a society, but sometimes criminalizing things is worse than treating the addiction, but in this case, if you're, so
That kind of precedent. If I were to sell you some drugs through Facebook
are we gonna go and arrest her mark Zuckerberg, because I saw drugs
on Facebook, now I realize that the whole point of silk road is to buy and sell drugs, but ROS nearly created a website. I think there's a little bit a shady nest there, but they go after Ross with Drug King pen laws. This is what they go after drug cartels and big time. Offenders,
but by the end of the trial, a lot of those charges that they read off at the beginning of the trial like these two
murder for hires those charges are gone now, so it's
it's like planting a seed with the jury. Here they muzzled said this guy's a child molester and parks illegally.
then, by the end of the trial there, like ok, the only charges parking legally- oh, you think he's a Tom molester, but we're not charging them with that
I find that kind of shady. It was very
emotion, driven and I'm just thinking to myself, you got here
this guy nailed to the wall. You had him for,
money laundering for fraud for tax evasion for drug trafficking. Why'd. You have to play games here. Ross wool end up getting to life sentences plus forty years without the possibility of parole. Now some of you might think, that's just for what he did.
Because a lot of people's lives were destroyed by the drug sold on a site. I get that, but his prison sentence is harsher, then what we give murderers and rapists violent offenders.
And the way they went about it, I feel he deserves an appeal, and it's not that I think that this guy's innocent. It's not that. I think that he wasn't the dread pirate Roberts. I just think they railroaded him using really crappy tactics and shutting down his defence. They may have used what you call Shea tactics to get him the worst possible sentence.
They could give him. Maybe no. He was the dread pirate Roberts and during the trial it came out exactly how that operate.
She went down to get his laptop, the homeland security officer, we mentioned earlier Jared dairy Yegg High, and he was actually outside the library and communicating with dread. Pirate Roberts Toyota get on silk road. Essentially so once he verified that he was logged in because they would use a chat pliant, that's when they knew they could pounce, it was actually a brilliant operation, and so there was no doubt about this guy and his guilt.
But I think just in your whole point is, is linkages bus, the sky, but they really wanted to just demonize him and then completely destroy him.
it was almost like a personal vendetta. Instead of just well we're doing our jobs more e made the government look stupid. He used the toward network built by the government against them and he did it for
a few years for at least two years now, there are some superstar agents here like Jared and increased our bell that came in and kicked out
but then you, you see the temptation and the corruption of other agents
I see the unfairness of his trial and I think now you bring into question. I think he got a crappy trial. I think the process should
prevail. I guess that sort of the moral here is Ross felt that why let
process get in the way of progress. I'm going to make drugs legal,
Meanwhile, you have Jared trying to do his job in trying to bus this site and he's not gonna let
us get in the way of progress, so
goes around the system and goes after him
Then you have somebody like Carl Force who switches sides
mid investigation. I just I look at it. I just think well, of course,
why? Why? Wouldn't they do this on the up and up at the end? So,
happened to our friends Carl Force and Mr Bridges, because this
laptop was seized and they didn't have to worry about encryption anymore because it was open and on they were able to find logs of communications between Ross. All brick,
Carl force. This is important because they actually check back against the records that for sent in, and he was found
it's on all his dealings with silk road, or so they thought once they started. Comparing the logs on the lap
up verses his reports. They discovered a lot of
indications and under different aliases, of course, between these two that force had
ever reported on there
We have him nailed and they know
it all. This secret business
he was doing on the side was all illegal. It was all for personal gain on May twenty, eighth of two thousand fourteen Sean Bridges is first interview.
By phone regarding this investigation into the taskforce. So they just want to ask him some questions and they.
ask him about Carl Force. I mean at this point
they know that Karl forests is dirty and they're trying to figure out where Sean Bridges fits in everything
he denies knowing very well. He said, Braun the same task force, but we don't really communicate and they all
Ask him if he's owned any bitcoin in the past year,
and he denies that is well that's kind of weird right there.
A second interview during
This one they're asking
about his quantum international investments, LLC and he says
oh. That was just a personal business venture,
didn't really work out. Their able to look in
a lot of these things and they find out he's not telling the truth. In March, two thousand fifteen he's told that he's being suspended, and he knows,
the gigs up. I think so he actually resigns.
when you resign from a job. Just in a special.
When you have a job with sensitive information involved, then they want
make sure that you don't carry anything out the door with the right yeah. Well in John Bridges case, they said we want you to leave your laptops over here. He says: ok,
any sets a laptop down where they tell em to, but then he takes the other one any puts it on a shelf which is known as the white shelf. You leave laptops there or computers that you want to be white clean
hey. I don't think this is an accident because he managed to get one laptop where it was supposed to go there,
he had also said pay before I go. I have some person
information. I want to take off of a computer that I use and he got authorization to do so, that's because they would be watching.
He had a folder on this computer and it was labeled bit stamp
he's trying to copy it off. They show up and they
not everything down so that
catch him in the middle of the act of trying
Conseil and steal more bitcoin and conceal his own that ok, yet they know he's guilty. Of course they ve got Carl force
They ve got Sean bridges. These guys really have no defence force plead guilty on July. First, two thousand fifteen: it's on three different charges: money laundering with predicate of wire fraud and theft of government property, obstruction of justice, extortion under color
of official right related to his theft and diversion of more than seven hundred thousand dollars in digital currency, which he gained by being part of an undercover task force that was investigating, silk road and art
we're nineteenth of two thousand fifteen. He was sentenced to seven
eight months in prison which was kind of a compromise.
between what the prosecution wanted and
his defense was saying which was they wanted
to have the minimum, which I think was sixteen months or something like that. So they gave him something between near the end of twenty fifteen Sean bridges plead guilty. He goes down for
charges of obstruction of justice and money laundering and he
it's a sentence of seventy one months in two thousand
a twenty Eightth, which is the day before he said
to turn himself into serve his sentence he's arrested again what a second time. Yet you think, if he'd already bled guilty, he had already been in
reviewed and he basically gave up all
the information on what
I ve been doing. You would think that would be the end of the story
Apparently Sean Bridges didn't give up everything because they found more money laundering and they had to.
Some again now that, but they found government property that he had stolen, including bulletproof vests.
sky, was making a run for it. He was gonna, try to leave.
Country, I think, and he had bought perverse, because he was expecting an altercation
It really shows that, if he's being arrested a second time, then the government might not know how far these, to wit,
what they stole and what they got away with. I guess when it comes to these agents they could
resist the temptation of all
all this money that was right beneath their fingers. I mean this is part of the defence that Ross and his defence team were trying to bring up
they couldn't use these agents illegal activities at trial daylight. This is exculpatory because it's not like they just had access to sell,
road. They had access to everything who knows how much they participated in
So how come there not being held as being responsible for this as well, and I
I can't even imagine what it's like to be an underpaid police officer, busting some drug dealer that has hundreds of thousands of dollars
and you're sitting there bus in your ass, for you, no thirty thousand.
Forty thousand a year, but in your life on the line, and this guy's got hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars. In this case the temptation is unbelievable. I'm sure I understand it, but it just
kind of saddens me that at least in this case it was so brazen and just so over the top. So this is a case that involve a first. It was the first time
that we saw in illegal market place just explode on the internet and become more more popular, making the guy that started it rich beyond his dream.
but of course he didn't seem to be a guy. That was doing
as for the money because it wasn't like he was going out, buying Bmw's was he know he lived in crappy apartments with his two bags or a duffel bag of clothes. He didn't even have furniture. Most of the time you do known a car
this is not what we picture, though. Jestingly watch a movie like Scarface he supposed to build an empire yeah now,
cocaine, fifteen cars and a k
sailor. My little friend now this is a cheesy privileged white. Kid who looks granola is not the image of the drug cartel King pin
they're, trying to make him out to be and he's not utilizing his gifts. I mean his educational background meant that he had a lot of great opportunities out there.
Just imagine if he would have used all this effort for a legit site used it for science. There's a lot of points and morals of the story, with this case:
If any one has the impression that idolize Ross Albert I actually
lies, a lot of characters in the story, not just him, because there,
very strong personalities that have drive that are no b s kind of people. They just want to cut through everything and just get a job done
whether that be federal agents or Ross himself. I appreciate what they do when it comes to the war on drugs when it comes
you whether drugs should be legal or not the silk road.
wasn't just selling cocaine and heroin people actually went out there and bought pain meds that they couldn't get from their doktor. They couldn't afford because their insurance won't cover it. There was more to the silk road than just the horrible nests of guns and drugs. When you make something illegal, you can
create a criminal environment, I always joke that. We should make caffeine illegal because all hell would break loose and you would
create a whole new criminal market for coffee and energy drinks. Starbucks become a drug cartel and all you coffee drinkers would become users and dealers and is reading
is that sounds caffeine as a stimulant, but if you weren't
They caffeine illegal tomorrow in this
situation. I would consider that the legality is something or the government force to shut. Something down is worse than the use of the drug itself, not that I
All drugs should be legal because people were actually selling cyanide on silk road. So now I'm not cool with that at all, and I think the site should have been shut down in Russia have been charged, but when it comes to just regular street drug,
especially when it comes to marijuana, which I don't smoke, but I find to be
the most inert drug out there. You have to consider that you have to consider where Ross was coming from, because
the government coming down on alcohol,
or whatever makes the criminal element stronger. They create the bad guy and they give the bad guy power and you criminalize legal behaviour. What's this is what happens? We did a premium upset
any duke in and because she was manipulating results in her tests. She tainted a bunch of criminal investigations where you can't trust her results, and you can't trust her word, and so it causes a lot of issues for the authorities.
Sean bridges. I brought up how he served a seizure warrant at Mount Cox. Well, it turns out that over time
He was involved in a lot of other digital currency investigations and because they
Oh he's dirty is I'll, get out now he's price.
Probably ruined a lot of other investigations, because they can't just say well dysentery.
Education is downright now they have a corrupt officer who was involved and now because he was involved so much. Those investigations are pretty much ruin again dislike with any duke, and you have to wonder. Why is it that good guys who are supposed to be good guys? I say that are corrupt. How come they get slaps on the rest, it just seems like we're not making the stakes high enough where
don't even think about what they're doing I mean the temptations. To great I mean, what's what's six years when you've been ripping everybody off? Well, that's the whole point of being tough on crime is the tougher. The laws and you know having the death penalty- is all the deterrent to keep people in line, but if the laws that we
hold our officials to our much lighter sentences, then there's no deterrent for them, so
there's something to think about? They don't know that they got.
All of the money that Schomburgh has got out or even that Karl Force got out
So just imagine these guys serve six years when they get out because they are going
they get out. Unlike Ross Albrecht there
I have a lot of money waiting for them somewhere, hundreds of thousands,
not millions of dollars, we have no idea, and I dont know if the government has any idea- or I don't. You know
I trust them to keep an eye on these guys to see if they do access money into use.
asked the government actually keep an eye on him and track this down. If it happens, I think, do you have some
superstars, that do a great job, but then you have laziness.
corruption and silos that allow evil to take place. So if you are
as obsessed with the silk road or crypto currency or the deep web is. I was for a while. The book american King PEN by Nick Builtin is phenomenal and if you want to hear the impact that the silk road had on somebody personally check out my peripheral episode, the path to
hell, is paved in silk hair ribbon. This is Erin. I want to thank you all
or the outpouring of support in its being kind of a rough time for justice,
and so we really appreciate your thinking of him,
We had originally release this episode. Honour Patria on this,
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-16.