« The Generation Why Podcast

The Franciscan Priest Murders - 439

2021-09-26

On August 5, 1982, Father Reynaldo Rivera, in Santa Fe, New Mexico, was murdered and his body was discovered three days later. Nearly two years after that, Father John Kerrigan, in Ronan, Montana, disappeared after leaving a bakery in downtown Ronan. Days later, his bloody clothes were found along a highway. Also found was a mangled and bloody coat hanger. Similarities between the two cases seemed obvious, but is there a connection? Nic from True Crime Garage joins Aaron to discuss these perplexing cases and possible motives.

Nic and The Captain can be found in any podcast app by searching for True Crime Garage and on the web at TrueCrimeGarage.com

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Join, wondering class in the wondering app to listen ad free from wondering what are you doing tonight Nick I am doing fantastic air and I am happy to be back here with you, I'm looking or to this all week my friend, you have been lookin
to it for a while. It seems like air every time we see each other we're talking about when we gonna do another one and I think covered What will put the blame on further delay right, of course, of course, then we caught. We were able to catch up at the crime con earlier here, and it wasn't until I feel like the late night, our that we were able to actually sit down and have some true crime discussions by late night, in four. In the morning I had there was some pretty late, not eat. Discussions that was amazing. I was so happy to see you and It was funny because I had tried texting. The captain he was like. Who is this because I'm going to bed, I like what, Is it like the two o clock? I think so. I was really shocked to see you and then I was like. I wait a minute we can chat for awhile we were in the lobby and surrounded by just the best
people in there was probably it feels like looking back, maybe ten of us and we're sitting around chatting everybody stock in true crime. All talking cases, people about and ideas and theories offer we each other, and I swear- If I would have closed my eyes after a while, I felt like it was just a girl of people sitting around a campfire trading stories. That's it is pretty amazing time, yes and its ain't that so many people are passionate about the genre. Allow people take this stuff seriously their arm chair detectives, and they want you Nick to know their fate, on whatever case it is that there are going to start bringing up. I love to hear the theory. Stew especially you know when we have anything, that's unsolved. I never like these people that are so kind of close minded to they ve come up the theory and it's their way or nothing me if
a case. It's unsolved. I wanna hear everybody's thoughts and of course I mean some things can be dismissal, but I am open to any thing. I want to hear anything, that's even if its outside of the box, that's what it's about you know, these cases are unsolved and there's a reason why they are unsolved if it were easy, somebody once, by now. So let's sit around. A creative, interesting, respectful discussion. You bring up a great point because There are cases that weren't solved that may have been. What happened is detectives run the same side of the debate, so we say, and they couldn't see another side, so they never got to break the case when and if your home in on one suspect in you work so hard and you put all your efforts into once us, back, then all your eggs in one basket and then something comes along and tells you you're wrong. Sometimes there
with a whole lot of nothing because they spent months or even a year you're more on angle of the case, and they had it wrong and that time they ve lost along The leads they ve lost potential eye witnesses. Evidence gets screwy the you know it there's all kinds of ways at these things can go back and we This is pass away. ass, we move away, they forget things in our memories, are fallible, so and our memories can't change. We can't we can't in the bowl and that it stays there forever so it's important and that's why we have so many shows in so many books and interesting, intelligent, people season detective what are you the first forty eight is the most important, nor if we we don't have a solid led in the first seventy two hours. We know starting to get in to get into the day Jerusalem, where we might be run into trouble here now. Thankfully,
these cold cases gets solved after awhile and that's why I like to think There's hope yet, as long as someone stole cares their willing to look back at the- then again. Hopefully, some forensic, and was collected. How they're still hope in all these cases that we're talking about take mom to get a word from our sponsor audible. Twenty. two is about celebrating our new found self awareness and making positive change. Audible. Lets you all your audio entertainment. In one hour, you always find the best of what you love or something new to discover. Audits has it all: on unbeatable selection of audio books, tons of binge worthy podcast, an exclusive originals, all able to download or stream I'm currently listening, Marcus Aurelius, Meditations House involved sleep at night and gives me things to chew on during the day to make finding your perfect two thousand and twenty two listen even easier. New members can try audible free for thirty days
audible, dot, com, Slash Gaeta, BP or text Judah BP, two five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot com, slashed cheetah, BP or Text Gaeta, BP, two five hundred five, don't don't miss. The upcoming limited series on Hulu dropout dropout explores the rise and fall of Elizabeth HOMES, the founder and ceo of fairness, the company that to revolutionize. The face of healthcare story a man deciphered the sea, This goes beyond what has been published to understand the complicated woman behind the notorious scandal unravelling her story from childhood to present day as she goes from Stanford dropout to self made billionaire to alleged criminal miss the series premier of the drop out. There is day March. Third on Hulu. Well that's interesting, because one of the cases that we are going to talk about here tonight
They are saying that, because of advancements in technology that there is evidence in at least one of these cases that they think could them to finally solving this thing all these years later. While with that, I think we should let the out of the bag here right, I think so well tonight we're covering a case. I guess we would call the franciscan priest murders, which involve those two different priests and too. States in the United States, of course, who were brutally murdered the question is what happened so this gets going in August. of nineteen. Eighty two in Santa FE, New Mexico. Yeah- and this is a weird one to me errand and this one and I want to this one I mean separating it from the other case Abou will get into after the case of food. There were Rivera, but this one seems
credibly mysterious to me like almost something out of a fictional book, because it's that call that happens in the middle of the night. That's going to draw the good other out of the rectory in and out onto the road to ultimately meet his killer or meet his fur eat unknowingly to him, so that call find a good time frame of wind. call came in, but it that everybody talks about it. It seems like it would have been in the late evening hours after dark and I have that this went down on August fifth, nineteen, eighty two, which would have been a Thursday. And father. Rinaldo Rivera was fifty seven years of age and he is the priest for these Saint Francis Cathedral and Santa Fe New Mexico. This call comes in and the personal
So the original call was father, Patrick Gerard and appeal this man the line says that his name is Michael Carmelo. He says I met rest stop and Waldo, and that's it. Twenty seven miles away from this cathedral so He gives his reason for his call. He says my grandfather dying, he had a heart attack and need a priest to read him his last rites. This man saying these we we need a priest out here, but Gerard is legally blind, and so he said you know I can't make this trip. But if you call back in Fifteen minutes there will be a priest too, can likely help you at that time, one it's one of those weird things right. We see this in some of these cases where we have I have some information, there's meat on the bone, theirs
a lead for the detectives to follow by pure happenstance. This father answers the phone. He can't make the trip call back in fifteen minutes, and then he, when the called does come back, in its relate the same information, and then we have Father Rinaldo, Rivera who's going to respond to that call and agree to meet this individual. at the rest stop had he not called the other priests pick up the phone. We may have never had any of that information at all about the rest stop or this person's name are fictitious name that he was using to draw the priest out and according to some of the formation out there. It seems like a description of a vehicle may have been offered up as well, and that phone call to that the end
it will be driving a blue pickup truck. I believe that something- that's always, been carried on through this case, so I have to believe cancer. at present, but I have to believe that that information was pass along too in the original call. I think you're right, I don't believe Rinaldo takes a note the leaves it behind before he goes. I think you just response to the call who would think to call on and request a priest for last right, some us it was a real situation where a few things that are terribly troubling about this call to me one. It's look. I understood it's the middle of the night when death comes I can add our doors, you don't get to choose right, you don't get the skin these things most of the time. So when you need them, these for the last rites, you need the priest, but call coming in the middle of the night. Not such a big deal, but to me farmers. Even this gone, somebody's asking me to meet them at a rest. Stop
maybe a little leary of. Why am I meeting at a at arrest up? For starters, I'm now giving this is one thousand nine hundred and eighty two, so the good Father doesn't have gps in his vehicle and we don't have cell phones and there's different obstacles. Are involved in trying to somebody that you don't know location that you may not be aware of. So you have that, but I think the rest for me as a bit of a of a red flag here and the thing that should point out for those that that may not know the last ray two, if you're trying to lower a prey somewhere, that's a really good angle or really good ruse to use, because this is something that for my understanding can only be administered from the priest, and this is not something that could be performed.
once someone is already dead. So it's urgent right. It's of the greatest of importance to that. He response. The call this is another catholic making. This request he's taking it seriously, so he go and he does meet this in it all that is using the name, Michael Carmelo, and so really driving a blue truck. Now that blue trucks lead is interesting because it could be something, but it could also be just like the name Michael Carmelo, where hey meet me at this rest up I'll, be there I and the blue truck dont really matter if he has a blue truck or not once the Good Father arrives. If this guy wants to take him and he's armed. Then he's take him no matter what kind of vehicle or what color that vehicle would be, but that's a question We already know this isn't a nefarious situation, but I would say there could have been a blue pick up there
New would still be there when the priest arrived, that's a possibility or He could have been driving one or, like you said he could just made it up, but either way he knows that priest is going to show up and we dont think the priests which I've round and say I dont see it pick up and leave no hilltop. yeah, and this is going to lead to Father Although Rivera being reported missing later, that night. So he response This call- and he does not return back as as one would expect yeah all we know is that Ranald oh Rivera left with his but they say his last rites kit, so yet stole vestment. He had heard the water oils and he was dry, a nineteen, seventy four Chevrolet Malibu Malibu, and he at at about eight forty five in the evening, but never returned. No one expected him not to
back, of course, I know they would expect them to be back that night. That's why they they found it in and reported him missing answers come! That's him any answers come in a couple of days. There's a couple Marie and Louie Pariah. They stumbled upon rivers body while driving through law, so what did they see when they got there, so they found the priest lying on his back his arm extended and he was shot in the sum of the reports reviewed, say chest, others say stomach either way, that's pretty pretty similar and we have formation too. That says that he was bound and tied in. would have been off of interstate twenty five and it looked like his vehicle, so his vehicles located in a completely different location than his body,
So we have his vehicle, that's located at a rest. Up on interstate forty near Graham and I also saw a note here that says that the vehicle was out of ass or very near being out of gasoline near the other thing you know about this was when he was shot. It damn a major artery and I've, that it was likely the abdominal a order which meant that he was going to bleed to death, but you know ports are saying that he was shot with a gun, there was at least a three fifty seven caliber. So what's up Heavy hangin also bruises. On his face and Iraq, around his neck, so was believed that there an attempted strangulation, or at least he was secured or restrained with some type of wire. The sounds like So I really wanted to hurt him. Make him suffer yeah
and it looks to me like he was found his body. That is because again vehicle was found in a completely different location, but the body was found in a remote pasture. What about two? miles. South of- rest area that he was responding to mad. They believe they, some happened to him and then he was dumped at that location ice all that, and I found that to be really interesting and that's one thing that I have a lot of regulation on in regard to this case, and that is the same many of the detective. There was working the case early on here some things that are kind of. Opening jawdropping and head scratches. At the same time, first off saying he was working a theory that it was probably to individuals that may have done. This kept saying that he thought that it would be too difficult for one end of it or to control Father,
Rivera and move him and control in the way that they did. I wonder here if there some information and they're always is, but what and of information does the detective have that we are not privy to an end this kind of throwing some bread crumbs out to the general public because at some point there going, to realize that they need the public's help. They need and have to hope this but he saw something or somebody knows something, or maybe somebody had You must drink and star bragging about something that they did something bad dead or somebody. They know that did something bad, and so I wonder this was a little hint contents. Wink wink kind of situation is applied. Double that somebody driving by may have saw something that at the time they didn't think was important and that involved scene,
re people, one of them being the father or did people see three people travelling together in a blue truck driving along and I do love the the detectives theory of look here- probably driven to a little bit remote location, probably not terribly far from that rest area and killed someplace else and that be. There would be obvious reasons and obvious things for them at the boy damn sight to determine that follow there was not killed where he was found by think it could be a clue to the public, but I think it's just logical, I dont know why they would move his body if there is just one of them. You know what I mean if dealing with one killer. I dont know why they would bother moving. grown man around, but if there are two of them, That makes the job lot easier and, if you,
but the way he was restrained and killed. Then I think that supports that theory as well. But there is more than one person involved in the murder well and the other thing too, with the moving of his vehicle. Well then, it gets quite a big located to be maneuvering all these vehicles. You know if you say, leave. You showed up to that rest area trying to the father to meet you there and then afterwards. Your moving his car and you have your vehicle. Did with so yeah you're right, did just makes sense. ex more logical sense there to move the body mover the vehicles, the much easier with more than one person and they may have moved him while he was alive, meaning so Scott and his vehicle and that's where you could have a third person. Maybe there is a third person that strained, and while they were moving yeah. I always wondered about that too. It seem like they were pretty say convinced, but at sea
they were strongly leaning toward the idea that, once the priest arrived at this breast area, that from there controlled by his attack. occur or his attackers and move somewhere killed, then moved in dumped then his vehicle transported this other location. It seemed to be that that was the on a logical order of their theory and the that they laid out when they're asking the public for help, and I just really wonder what the evidence was. That was pointing them to that, and I get that that you know makes the most logical sense, but is there you know because to me I feel especially knowing that another person took the call, you know as I always try to look at these things from maybe the killers perspective, shouldn't the killers perspective, one of his major can turns being, getting away with murder and not being called for it. So,
If I know that I spoke to somebody else and I've already given up the goose on on my location and had two gave a fake name and some positive some other fall, sir or correct information, what have you I feel like you gonna get that car away from that that rests as well? Now I do know that this was bribed as a remote area? So maybe maybe I'm over thinking it others a lot to think about here at the detect is they look this case and they thought. Maybe there is a robbery because it appeared that his pockets had been gone through but how much money would a priest have on him? That's the real question. So if there looking for money, why would you call a priest now they now his last rites kid. The items that he brought with him were missing so I found a news article that stated that his sacrament kit, his wallet and his eye glasses, were
the items that they could easily identify as missing from his person and his vehicle. Tenement get word from us, answer ever lane every line has equality, clothing with ethical factories and radically transparent pricing, since twenty ten with their eggs, of research and varying they provide fair wages and reasonable hours to skilled people who craft their clothing. They have time designs and use the finest sustainable materials she can we, them for years to come. There breathable Can it cotton track where it gives an elevated, take on try to who basics and their genes. Oh my there, my favorite Para genes. I've now bought more pairs, because you can't wear one pair genes for a whole week straight kind of growth sky. Me too relaxed slim to athletic, find the perfect cut that fits your form just right
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generation. Why listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping use code Jen? Why that code again G in W H, Y yeah, I'm with you, I mean How much money would he have in his wallet? How much would any of us have in our wallet at any random night having a phone call, it seems like poor choice for robbery if that would be your main motive. So I feel like Dat his pride probably not the motive here. The other thing that centre This, too, is going back to the detectives theory. They stay several times there. They strongly feel that the the Greece, the Father, were vera was not targeted and I think may The phone call is the basis of that portion of their theory, because the collar simply be asking for a priest, not Father Rivera.
Which seems obvious compared deal with when we look back and taken a consideration that this person spoke with a different priest, the first time he called He'S- with Father Gerard first, who said I can't make that trip. But then again these are priests. They called to speak but a priest. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the particular priest. It just has to be a priest, after all there are rules was to say my grandfather, his dying and we need last rites administered as soon as possible and as such weird bizarre thing right any time that you see or hear of a priest or preacher, minister, really anybody in that line of work being killed because think of these people. As you know, a great wonderful good people doing Good work for their parish for their communities, and we
stand up there at the end of the day there human just like the rest of us, and they are not without sin themselves and sometimes there's bad people. in their wolves in sheep's clothing. But I couldn't I much in the way to suggest that are Father Rinaldo Rivera here in this case was anything but a stand up guy and in right so than that mine wonders in any time you see like priests killed. You start to think was something satanic or my mind often goes too. I am I No, why Aaron? But why my goes to this, but I always feel like teenager young man. It just seems some very evil. All very unholy really thing like it. In my mind, always kind of goes arab, maybe for me partner that is it. One of the cases we covered was of Father coup,
and I know that it will One of the suspects that they looked at strongly in that case was up a disturbed young and visual- I can't remember- maybe maybe eighteen nineteen did they lived somewhat near by he, was actually killed in the church, itself. we don't know if the killer was waiting for him in the church, because he Father Coon's, returned to the church. After being, I'll all night or if once the father was there, there was evidence. Do just that may be the killer approaches knocked on the door and then was allowed and at some point- and so I don't know if it's just that case of carried that with me. But that's where my mind goes to somebody of that type of aid. it's all speculation, but his is someone who wanted to commit the act against the priest, because truly be evil. It would be a crime against Scott weren't. They
active seems to think that that's a possible angle here right because he says they left there? He, the killer, left the priest body where he that it would likely be found and probably found relatively quickly. Its The statement of I did say, killed this priest. I killed it, and that's the thing to really could be. These individuals sums they can be very disturbed and individuals, and we may never be able to fully understand their motivation for what they do or why, and that could be the case here. Ok, it also could be as simple as it's the motive she is not against this priest in particular, but a priest or the churches. of all the community itself right? If you wanted to do a crime to shock and her and disturb the community, this would be that type of crime.
Well, there's something about the investigation here that clues me into. I dont think This was a young person. I could be wrong, but they said that the vehicle was wiped down very well. They didn't find any prints. They didn't I think that they could use in this case too. Down the road eliminate or pick out suspects this. Why were left with theories well and also the setting of the trap to is not tippit of a young offenders. Are you take him at the club? fairness of it yeah yeah, often you'll, find younger affair, send a bee, impulsive or or more likely, to be and If you have somebody that just wants to make a statement that just wants to do a thrill kill a war, do something to shock the community or the church, What have you kick in the door and shoot up the place right would be me
likely of a young offender and the the younger you go on the scale, the more impulsive the act would be here. It's setting the trap its calling it's coming up with looked added surmise and cross them tease. Right I mean they. set up a scenario where the priest almost couldn't say now my and father is die, I needs come out and in a minute the last rites. It's almost you can't say now. The trap is set. I'm here can meet me at this rest area and I'm DR and a blue pickup truck can be there and what thirty minutes? Forty minutes, I know now and Trap is set and they said your patiently waiting for their victim and we don't know how been lied to at the gas station again they could have said now. to drive over to see my grandfather. We don't know when the trap was sprung,
we don't know win Father Rivera figured out that they had been tricked, There is one other thing, though, that makes me her about the age or ages of these killers? If there's more than one and that's that the priest car, which was found, hundred and ten miles from what they're calling Waldo crime scene. Well, that show that they likely drove that car until it ran out a gas because when they found that call it was empty. There was no gas in it. That makes you wonder done it had there Even more gas- and it would, they have just continue to keep drive and further further. That seems likely the other thing. Two I was a little shocked and You and I were not there in. We, don't know what the what was going on at the local level, but from what I could find and again, this is looking into this.
Forty years after the fact, but I have to leave that there would have been a huge request for any that saw that type of vehicle. did you say: was a seventy six impala It was a Chevalier Malibu, a Chevy Malibu and did any we see this thing that night, because we know that was moved. Did you see a blue truck tailing it, or blue pick up leading the way did it stop to get gas at any point that, would be the thing I would be looking for early on in the investigation it restrained, so the car is abandoned, it was locked and in it these were disposed of taken by the killer were killers by here's. The thing there is an article
published many years later in ninety. Ninety two that says that a palmprint, fingerprints and hair samples were found in reverse car interesting and you wonder obviously they knew all this from jumps tree. So will be some your whole back information. This is but in that we have that we can compare to the right or wrong long individual should we have them in our custody or across the table from us too, clear, someone or absolutely correct them to this homicide well, with what little the look knew of this you're right you keep talking about. Did anyone see these two vehicle together or even the one and I dont that they ever gonna call like that, this This is very difficult to solve, because they don't know the motive they dont know if there's one two or three individuals who perpetrated this crime.
They have is they I have some evidence located from within the car. They also know, though, that the pay phone that the collar claim to be calling from was out of order at the time, so whoever called wasn't even calling from that local who's, calling from a different location and again setting the trap, knowing that the priest would meet him there they are. Thing you have to wonder about two- is one do. They know where the call came from it doesn't seem likely that they do but we know that it didn't come from that- that particular phone that he claimed to be calling from I did see a statement from the He shares department, Aaron and I dont have a day on this. I think that this would have been by December of eighty two or early and eighty three- that they were saying that they had fifty suspects that were investigated. Now
we tend to use that word suspect in twenty twenty one much differently than they did back in nineteen, eighty, two or eighty three, so that everybody should keep in mind to use that term very loosely that the police were probably using that term very loosely back then persons of interest persons of interest an end use that phrase loosely to too could be something as simple. As you know, some drunk, I said I heard so, and so did something bad that night. You know that can label a person as a person of interest so that when we say Fifty suspects investigated, we don't know, details of each one of those. Fifty sounds to me like they may not have liked to many if any of those fifty suspects, because the detectives theory is going to go well beyond Santa FE though there was an inmate named Manuel P? NATO and he
have been released from a nearby prison hand. He would under a drug rehabilitation programme by its ha. He stopped me in contact with its social workers and he disappeared because He had been to prison multiple times. Police were thinking. maybe this is the guy now the reason why they start focusing on the ETA is because there is a print. It was admitted that there were prints from inside the vehicle, but they found one of the prince kind of look like his print so they were able to locate this individual and well. They had of ruling out as a suspect, because he, alibi back. Yet to alibis. Do you listen, what the alibis were to people backed up his account and they re able to confirm his whereabouts at the time and a good detective is going to want, to admit minimum to independent alibis.
Two independent witnesses to be your alibi, and it sounds like that might be the situation here that these vigils pouring depend of one another and can places individual elsewhere to where he could not have committed the crime. The difficult thing So too is the lapse in time right between when the body is found when he goes missing and when the vehicle is found, it certainly leaves kind of a large window open now done. I couldn't find anything to tell us or tell me anyway if they had, and I am sure that they did, but why They believe really would be. The approximate time of death here, but I think that the real question, because another theory is that the person who called may have been on the same street as river and followed him to that occasion. File and they got him to stop before even reached the location. It's very tricky.
Because we don't have verification He made it to that local and all we have are the words of the priest to answer the call the first time it something that they're trying to put together. But it doesn't just go together like you'd hope they don't have. It timeline here, and I do like the fact that they, looked at Manuel because he was needing dry rehabilitation, and we know that there are people who, because of their addiction, they don't mind, stealing ten dollars from a priest, whatever it takes so I get by. They focused on him for a bit. They also tracked down MIKE Carmelo. There was a Michael Carmelo who lived, an Indian Reserve and well paper. They didn't think he was oft, but they still administered they graph test, and after that they affect, they rolled him out
I saw that is well wasn't he he would have been a considerable distance away from Santa FE area. Correct. He in Arizona it was the Papa, go Indian Reserve and it was in our whole Arizona. But I like the fact this means that they were doing real work here. They work to solve this crime. They just have a difficult time putting it together because you have is that phone call and we have him leaving and then, of course later on. They find his body the release the thing was when they found his body was just this couple that discovered the body and then the police showed up. He had to say, We members that were very close by looking for him and because there is a police helicopter that landed nearby. They knew there in the right location and they overheard them, talking about finding the body and they didn't hear the name, but they knew right away.
What was going on, they knew that it was Rinaldo that had been found. These people were his brother, Fred and his nephew. Information. I saw two air and said that there was a search party conducted we're volunteers involved at one point, look for Father, Rivera and I just wonder, given the nature of this crime and in the way that the detective kind of tribes in his theory. Thoughts on it I just cannot but wonder would this individual or the persons responsible would they be You know brazen enough to to sign up and given volunteer and go out there and look if so, you hope that their name is on some list somewhere that somebody took the time to collect some information from those that were involved, lie with hope is the only suspect, and I guess we should
a person of interests in this case whose, to have some kind of possibility that I've read about was a man who was in New Mexico on the night river was murdered. He had come in from New York now word? Has it that this man went into that cathedral and stuff wooden statue at the Madonna and child and was arrested for theft. Fascinating I don't know anything about so do tell my friend do tell just to be clear here. He was in New Mexico, the very night that Rivera was murdered, but he had into this cathedral before and stolen this wooden statue and was caught arrested. And where it has it that, because the priests didn't put in a good word for him, but the police that he was upset and want to and now he was administered a polygraph, but they didn't pull him out, has a suspect so this
means that it's a possibility, but you would think if they had fingerprints from the car that they could have compared those. So I think once again police haven't released every bit of evidence there withholding things and when I said earlier, fifty suspects investigated. Nowhere did it say fifty suspects investigating cleared, and this guy very likely could be one of those fifty that were that were looked at, the other thing to is. This is the case that I was referencing when I said that there could be some. Evidence still around physical evidence, forensic stuff. They could possibly solve this thing off forty years later, and You know they were recent news cast on this it said: hey, that's what we ve been told from the current detectives from the cold case: detectives. Did there so actively working this case and that there could be a break coming at some point. Given advances in technology
and we shouldn't be surprised if they do break this case openings. because We ve seen other cases solved when we thought they looked pretty. impossible to do so at this point who you're talking decades later, My father Rivera was put to rest. He had I would say a huge turn out: there were three hundred per three thousand New Mexico residents that ran attendance there is a merry Archie band that played a song. While the franciscan priests carried his coffin. as well as saying where you know this priest was loved and What did you say earlier if someone murders as priest, the community will feel it It truly is a crime against this man, his family, the church and the community it really is it's the crime of the worst kind it affected. So many people.
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talking about two about two cases: the take place roughly two years apart and about twelve hundred miles We were talking about New Mexico and now we're talking about Montana and Father carry and was kind of an interesting character. They say he was a real cowboy wasn't doing as priestly duties. He was a cowboy. He was riding use decked out in cowboy clothing and even involved in branding, open and run broncos. Let's talk Why he's on the radar and why he would be involved in the same discussion as Father Provera so the action here is that Father John CARE again will ultimately he disappears you can look at this and say well, there are some, similarities to the Father Rivera case, one major change, obviously, as it we don't have the remain
In Sweden, we find the body of Father Kerrigan. Now this takes, ace depending on what sore shoe. You look two. It will say: ruin in Montana, pulse in Montana. Both are very close and distance. The practically next to one another but on July twentieth. Nineteen. Eighty four, which would have been a Friday, we have father carrying He goes into a bakery. Now, there's bakery is just across the street from the church rectory, where he's living at the time oh he's actually living there, because he's just moved from another parish. And so he's only in town for basically two days. He move their one newspaper articles found said he moved there on July, eighteenth and he
was supposed to lead a mass, the six thirty p M mass on Saturday July, twenty first well he does he's a no call, no show for man and when a priest is a no show at a mass? Well, that's you Finally, a very strange and odd situ, patient now this was not like- Father caricature he had never. the mass before and he's been a priest by this point for approximately thirty years, so he has a track record of taking care of his duties. Running no running mass and in all of his priestly duties, and he doesn't show for this Saturday evening Mass and therefore they start to wonder you know what is up there. This time he seen is just before them clock when he walked in that bakery across the street. Now, when he walks into this bakery errand wearing red shorts, white teacher intent, shoes
Oh he's very casually goes in there and he's talking to some individuals that they belong to the parish and I think it was five or six p. they say that he was in there. He was in good spirits. He was talking about how he was taking walk. In the evening time, so he could figure the lay of the land and learn a bit about the town and talking with people on those walks and the baker. For the owner of the bakery later said that that was the second time since Other Kerrigan arrived in town that he had gone into the bakery and the people that he spoke with every one of them said you know we were, we were kind of look in or to seeing what he would do for the church and for the community. He seemed like a good guy he up, beady was outgoing and they end we're talking with them. They said that they spoke with him for about five or six minutes and too which he said he was going home while hall,
should be at that time for him across the street, and the weird thing is the people at the bakery. and this was a statement from the owner. I am when did this is a little bit more than a bakery like. I got the vibe that this is kind of maybe a bakery, but like a coffee, Maybe there's some diner type D going on here, because the owner said one thing that strange was that we never saw his car that night, and we never saw him again that night, which was odd because he was just across, tree in the garage where his vehicle would have been the door Roger faced, the bakery ended. The bakery was open all night so now come Joe Twenty first Saturday. As of six thirty p M, that's when they first notice that he is missing now far Kerrigan told some people on Friday that he was going to
weighing small Jana, which is where he had just move from on site today where he was going to attend a funeral and a wedding for my understanding errand, he never arrived at either of those events either and at that is not determined until after he was a no show for the six. Thirty mass right in this parish didn't have a priest that was in charge of that church. For many months, so with Kerrigan coming in the pressures excited about it, because they were finally going to have a regular priest again. Who would lead that church but this is just very strange and they do no is. Is this is not a priest who missed mass? There is their first clue that some in terrible must have happened because he just didn't do that when the previous point who passed away unexpectedly from a heart attack or or something
nature, and I believe it was about four months prior to Father Kerrigan arriving on the scene on July Eighteenth, so you see that Paulson and Ronan Kerr right next to each other yeah. This pair Is this it as being in Rome in Montana? That's where I have the violation is around two thousand people at the time. Yes and I was looking that up as well, because the the formation on finding when they site story they site that its Paulson Montana but yeah. some of the other outlets state that its ronin and I have Paulson Monti Nineteen. Eighty four population was right around three thousand people, so it's Late County Sheriff's office that is brought into an ass the gate because of the discovery of bloody clothing.
I saw a couple different versions of the story, so I just want to make sure that we throw both of them out there and will let the listeners decide, which one day think is the correct one. This lorries, don't very that much, but what they are is an individual setting up some kind of fruit, stand like a fruit vendor and that they were the ones that found these close seem like they were just kind of tossed out and it was when they get the looking at the clothes and see that there's blood on them did they thought a week. We should probably report this to somebody now I saw a couple different reports in some of the report's state that it was not the clothing that he was wearing when he was at the bakery, but it clothing that was identified by relatives Father arrogance, as b, his to me. It would make more sense than it was the clothing that he was seen in that night
would seem a little more obvious to me, but it also sounds like that. He did in fact make it back home before. Whatever went down took place, I agree with you there, because it says they found a jacket and to me he wasn't wearing a jacket way, one of the bakery correct, correct. Thank you is out walking jogging something, so that tells me He probably went back and either changed his clothes or added a jacket, and I think that's that's probably the situation you're in it could be something as simple as you know he was wearing bread, shorts, white teacher and tension when he went to that bakery, this is just before. eleven p m. I understand that its July, and it's very warm, but it's going to continue to cool down. Has the night gets older right? Why not so, into a pair of genes and grab a jacket. What we do, now, though, is the clothing.
especially the shirt, was stained with blood and they found money a hundred dollar bill in the pocket. There are other reports that leave the money portion of that out and everything else being the same will be getting into that for sure because involves even more money. So Their thing here is: they find something very disturbing near the clothes they found a coat hangar that it and twisted in bent they looked. I thought this was used in the crime, yes Go hangers found, can a distorted and mangled near the clothing it wasn't discovered by the same individuals. They found the clothing. It wasn't until police. The authorities were called Do the scene, the sheriffs department anyway, and they D Over this mangled coat hangar with blood on this code, So now you have this situation of bloody, close, bloody coat hangar. By this point,
They already know that they have a missing individual from a town that does not have a ton of people, so they're going to bury quickly start connecting the dots they're going to know instantaneously We need to take these close to the people reported seeing the priest at the bakery or take them to his known relatives or somebody that can identify these as belonging to the priest. So because this code or as mangled and bent it was either used to secure somebody or maybe even strangle them, but either way. They were already getting a feeling that this is that, first, That says, I wonder if this is related to the Rivera case, because in that case he had been restrained, somehow with some type of wire could have been a coat hangar wire, they just didn't find when that case
yeah his body showed obvious signs that he was restrained or bound at some point before being killed and- in the Kerrigan case, when we don't and a fine getting his body, we do end up finding his vehicle so he had a wife and Brown Chevy Impala nineteen, seventy six, this discovered. I believe that the sheriffs movement was called to this vehicle about a week after father arrogant went missing, but I also found a statement from some boys. Some teenage Those who said that, where the view was found that they had actually seen it since the previous week and they said that they had seen it there. For about a week. They just do know that it was a very important stani thing ass though they didn't bother to to call it in, but his view is located and again thanks. Back to the wall.
thing of you know the Baker saying hey. We never saw his vehicle leave that night at any point, The garage was right across the street from us and this car with stained with blood. And I would also add that they found the keys to the car and the prior case ever found the keys in this way with care again, his car key was found what thirty arts from the car say wonder they just missed it in the paper in case you know if these are connected, in their similarities here. If they just throw the keys at they get out, we ve stoner, but they do find the keys when they open up the trunk though neck. What are they find? The trunk is pretty full of Items here now, keep in mind. Part of that is because he's in the process of moving or just recently moved right, so they find a a shovel. They fine pillow to these items have bloodstained solemn and they found and a White box
and I have a lot of thoughts on this White Box in this item that we're about to get into here, and I don't know how you want to continue with this I'll. Let you decide errand, but basically they find a wallet couple difference to say a thousand dollars and others say twelve hundred dollars, cash in the wallet, she wondered. Doesn't it he's a priest baby? He d then keep a lot of money in the bank, so he just keeps on his person, these moved. So perhaps you and have time to put it anywhere since is moved to the new town, first of all, It's odd to me, the where finding the victims, clothing and finding the victims, personal belongings, in most of them Reports are stating that we have money in the clothing. We have money in this wall it and if it is as much as thirteen hundred dollars combined, I mean we're talking about roughly about three thousand dollars today, so it considerable
of money in its whatever happened to this guy either the per I'm responsible for what happened to him or response. For putting that blood on their clothing and on that hangar and in car they, I didn't. About the money or were unaware that the money was there, It makes you wonder if they even bother to look that clears up the motive here, possibly though it because we do have the sheriff any late county. They county sheriff. He says in because of the money they they feel like robbery is not likely the motive there's other times where he says it's, not the motive angels like if you go back, and watch this case, so we should probably clue everybody in this case was covered in a very short segment on some mystery season. One episode, nine you'll see the detective from the
you Father Rinaldo Rivera case talking, you will see the it's there the sheriff or the under sheriff for lay county, discussing the Kerrigan case. I do want to throw this out there and I'm not trying to throw away mysteries under the boss here, but they have put out and they are in the entertainment business, and I understand that generation. Why in true crime garage have shows to put out, but I dont think of us as the same form of entertainment as the night in eighteen version of unsolved mysteries, and I wonder when I see the statements of the sheriff in the paper saying well, we feel like robbery is not likely the motive, but on camera he sang robbery, ethically wasn't the motive or robbery was, not the motive, I the very similar Aaron. But to me those are very different statements. There's no one closer to the case than him, and I just
that, before the lights in the cameras, turned on that they didn't instruct them to say hey. We need this to be more about priest murders than anything you ve already said. you, don't think it's the motive or not likely the motive? Could you just go ahead and say it wasn't absolutely and here's why? So? Let's really examined this wallet thing here, so the wallets found in the trunk of the view now. Why would we think that maybe the killer or whoever is responsible for why we have a whole bunch of blood why would or would not know that the money is there. While you would think that they would know that the money was there because there's blood on both the shovel and the pillow in there blood didn't just magically get their got their somehow. So somebody accessed that trunk at some point after Father Kerrigan. What I that would be the assumption that I would make now
of the more detailed reports that I've seen in regards to the vehicle stated that there was a White Box and the box was packed up by his former housekeeper. She was helping him pack for the move in the box was labeled. Somebody wrote that she wrote on the outside of the box. Wallets. She had packed his box up that more detail description of the vehicle. Aaron says that there was blood on portions of this box. It all looks to me like this said in one article anyway, the data, but The debt shovel was used to bury Father Kerrigan, even though and find the body, and they find the shovel the way he describes the shovelled, makes it sound like it had been very deep, call to be using this thing it was, it was quite rusty, was very old. It wouldn't have been impossible, I'm guessing, but if he says
He doesn't believe it was used to bury the priests, and I gotta go with what he said, but the way that that box described to me error in the way that I read it, it sounds like the box was not open and if the boxes labelled wallets and it's not open was the wallet actually in that ox, and so I'm wondering if, in fact the killer knew about the money. That's where I'm going with that me, I dont rule out that robberies, not the mode of actually, let's take a different ice certainly leaned toward the idea that robbery was not likely the motive, but regardless, even if robberies, not the motive and stumble across one thousand or one thousand two hundred or one thousand three hundred bucks- you might just take it in the process. Even if it's not the motive, don't get mad, is I'm starting to think that the person responsible for the disappearance of Kerrigan either didn't care about the money or major simply not have known that it was there
it wasn't even in a thought process for that person. That's why I believe and I think it was a concern at all. I think the motive was murder I know that's kind of a simple way to put it by this. Wasn t steal something from Kerrigan. Well, The Rivera case certainly looks like the motive was murder right I agree with you. I think, if I had to pick one simple answer and one motive there, would be the one that I would go to the most. I think second, after that would be maybe the use of the vehicle, but why? When you just steal the vehicle or rob the man. of his vehicle and take off with it and not take him as well, because we a situation where, where did the sky go missing from at some point? We four happened to whom you would think he the ran into somebody or was abducted at at some point. I mean
Those are the only answers I can come up with now. Did that tape that directory did it take place in the garage. Did he d to go out. Driving around after he was gone? home for the night be happy, don't have a phone in this case nope or if it did exist, I don't know about it. That's right. Let's talk a bit about the blood, though, because where he said that the car had blood in it, but there was blood on the front seat on the right floorboard, and the right door and your dimension, the shovel and the pillow in the trunk. but they said there is also blood spatter inside the trunk. Does this tell you anything I mean: do you believe he was killed inside the vehicle it would, talk to me like he
in the vehicle were removed together, he's probably sitting in the passenger, see he might be being controlled by more than one individual I'd. I tell you if you're going to try to control and individual and drive a vehicle at the same time sounds like a very difficult thing to do. We should also point out that, oddly enough even that these two cases took take place two years apart and twelve hundred miles away. Father John here again and Father Rinaldo Rivera oddly enough there flee, the same age Rivera was fifty seven and Kerrigan was fifty eight. But Kerrigan was six foot two hundred pounds so he's not a small man and we also have the statements of the detective from santa- hey this is he believed that it would take to individual to control Rivera. So I dont have any of the measure. Four Rivera, but it would indicate that he may not have been a small individuals well now
it's me trying to conduct this whole maneuvering, I'm making Kerrigan drive that also makes you at a disadvantage right, depending on what type of weapon restraints or methodology gee that you're using to try to control him control, his steering and his operation of that vehicle. I feel like we're looking at a situation where we got somebody driving the vehicle somebody sitting in the back seat, they got to people on on care again and if he decides to fight back some very likely. We have blood in that beyond the inside of that car, most of it on the passenger side, something have gone down in there and they may have decided to move him to the trunk at some point or killed in the vehicle, moved him to the trunk and then moved him to wear for he is now- and that's it I mean really that's a big mystery. We we simply just don't know where he could be how they they talked of this code hangar and
it had been used wrapped around his head is kind of a gag almost or it. Could have been used to literally handcuff him, that's much. This thing was bent up, but either they had secured him and its again, so reminiscent of the case we had talked about just prior, well, it's nineteen. Eighty four. I hope that they didn't assume that all of the blood was from Father Kerrigan. It's just oh reminisce enemy in every way. You look at this. They both these cases, there had to have been more than one person involved in these crimes, but when you, start picturing that, in your mind of these views, those being moved at these priests being moved, I don't know it it. It's like you, Mine just starts putting the same mysterious individuals in those vehicles well think that's why these two get lumped together? And you know when you see one website talking about one of the cases they are,
must always reference the other end you even see that there was communication and lay eighty four from these Santa Fe Police Department to thee county sheriff's office. Now correct, me if I'm wrong here, but from my understanding couple things it that way, What different now, given their two completely different, Cow, so reversed vehicles found part and a rest stop and care against vehicle is found kind of out in the middle. The pasture that's correct and I could not any information on. Was it gasser near being. Gasoline further. arrogant vehicle up Let me wonders if the vehicle was of some importance to whoever is responsible, their people that definite believed the vehicles could some sort of key here, I don't really understand it. I know they're both Chevalier vehicles, I mean they're, both brow,
vehicles, thereby paralyze. I actually lean towards the idea that there that they're not connected to the two cases are not connected. Now, that will be different from people that are smarter than me, you know there's a detective in Santa FE. That says. Look. I think that these two were connected, and I think that is a possibility that it could be the work of drifter who has some kind of psychological problems with with priest in that priest a really the motive in the target here, not necessarily these two actual individuals. It could be some kind weird serial killer. Look. he smarter than me, and if you want everyone to replace a wager, I would say place it on his side of the table, but see a situation where I feel like I feel like reveres situation, could be that, where the detective in Santa FE could right in the Rivera case where it could be some drifter thrill killer. That was
really just seeking to do this type of crime against a priest, because we have to do things that are major early different in these two cases is that we have a body and we don't have a body in one case we have a detective says looks to me like he. Whoever did this wanted the body to be found. Look I did this. I killed a priest, well in care against case complete opposite. Whoever did this does not want the body to be found I think it's happened, stance that his body has not been found. I think he was either buried somewhere, That would be my number one go to maybe was placed in some water. I mean there. Ever lakes and rivers in area and were found near water hangar was found near some water. How Close, I don't know the exact distance, but it looks to me
life, for whatever reason, Kerrigan somebody took some added efforts to conceal the bar now they didn't conceal much of the evidence it's inside the vehicle which is and a bizarre to me, but I I wonder if, if this is, more of a car jacking situation or could we have a situation where Kerrigan went out, crews and impact somebody up and things got weird go home, get into some reasons. Why have suspicions of that left? These are uncomfortable thing two to discuss, but I think they are necessary to talk about them. The The situation here with care again is there is a lot. Of sources did say that he was probably not the best priest that There have been some allegations again TIM over his years and he looked was a priest for thirty years, okay, so
the information I found says that he was ordained imbue and began working in the ministry and nineteen fifty four, we know he appeared in July twentieth of nineteen eighty four, so this was his twelve assignment and thirty years, which I don't look, I'm Catholic are born. Arrays catholicam confirm to the catholic church, but that my own experiences, I don't know much about priesthood orthe or the their typical lifestyle or how long they too. We work at one church and moved off to another one or transfer whatever, but everything that I could find in this situation everyone repeating the same thing: twelve assignments in thirty years is a lot and one year he was transferred to three different churches and stated that he never state at one church longer than six years so there were some allegations against father care again, and I saw these from one not to not five, not six at least
seven different sources that say that there were allegations against him for the four being accused of sexual abuse. It's true, There's not just allegations are mainly. It goes a little beyond that simply because there was a settlement out of court and one of the key. Red upon terms, was that the church would list the names of. I think it is eighty people involved with the church in Montana, who were accused his name was on that list. This was the individuals do worked and the Catholic Church in West, Montana, so they even kind of every kind of drink to the area of Forest Montana is a big stage out too big sky country. Now this was not just priest. For my understanding, air in this was priest. Staff nuns
Anybody really involved with the Catholic Church but yeah. Eighty people that were listed the sheriff says it himself, okay, so that This came out in April two thousand and fifteen. appeared and eighty four That's a lot of time. That goes by between the time he disappears and between that list coming out now, one that I found that was incredibly interesting. Was the sheriff was on record saying you. I know that that listen MT until many years later, but we were aware of all of this. during our initial investigation and the share of did say in one state method, and not only do they not the robbery was likely the motive. He also says it, said the sexual abuse was not a likely bout of in the case, so I dont know how they're coming up with these. Ideas can give you some ideas of my own. That would suggest that neither of these were a likely motive. I would want people to keep in mind that
I'm going under the idea of the description of the vehicle that I feel that it was best laid out described situation to me where that wall it might I have been known to whoever put him in the trough, or why that blood would be in that trunk. Now we're talking about in Montana Rhone in Montana. In somebody will help us out and been help us clear that up and I would air that the airlines- probably right not once I have listened to your show of dozens and dozens and hundreds of times and never once his errand been wrong. So the USA and there have been wrong. I've been wrong, hey I'm a guest on your show, just trying to be polite. You, but we're talking about about up violation of about three thousand people right, not a lot of people. There was bad stuff about to say the other s. Word but I dont know if we allow that on on Jan, why, but there were some bad. goings on right around
the same time. The father Kerrigan went missing so We had for individuals the escape the day before from this once it's old Swan Lake Youth Camp they say youth came but there's individuals up to the age. Twenty five there and we have four visuals then escape the day before they escape and a vehicle that long to that facility. I found several sources that state that to all all four of those individuals were seen in the sea. In town the night, the Kerrigan went missing and that's why? I wonder if maybe the vehicle was of more importance and and necessarily the keeping of the vehicle or the value of the vehicle, just the use of transportation, even for short period of time. We have Kenneth. Alan aged twenty one, Harold Gilead aged twenty one, Daniel Radie
Eighteen and Ronald Dodd, aged twenty one some source and say that all four were seen in the same areas. Kerrigan others say that just two of them were seen, and I think that that might be the situation. The two of these individuals, because it sounds like to me that, while all four of them escape together that at some point they cut ties The two of us went one way and the other two may have kept the truck that they stole continued on their way, so Kenneth, Alan and Harold Glade. they were captured. In July twenty first, so their captured the day after he goes missing in the short period that they're out there doing some pretty bad stuff. They were setting up road blocks, which is really weird. If you can kind of try to grasp that for a moment, we have a missing individual that we don't really know is missing yet, and yet road
box or set up looking for other escaped in division in the same area all at the same time Alan. glean robbed a store and then abducted in sexually assaulted, a woman who was working at that store, the other two individuals were captured several these later in they committed something like thirteen robberies and the time that they were out now. This kits really weird, though, because Alan and Clean are sent to Montana State prison, maximum security, prison supply, or twenty second, ninety? Ninety two olenin glean are two of fourteen in May they were involved in a prison right now. This was a riot to get back at the guards? This wasn't a riot to escape this
was a riot that was masterminded by these fourteen individuals. For months they worked plotted, planned and executed their plan, but they doing ultimately was killing five of the quote. Unquote protected inmates in the prison now. There is also another weird situation. That's going on that same week. As well, and this would be oddly Now this was another individual that was involved in that sector. Or twenty second. Ninety ninety two prison riot, his name is red Nevins, Sir Red. Never Sunday night at ten p m is spot in a bar in Paulson BAR with a forty one year old, woman, Carolyn Colbert they and her Monday morning at her residence, he had attacked her and cut her throat. That night
he's later involved in that prison right. So none of these, the three that were involved in the prison right they'll never get out of prison. Thankfully, but I'm this kind of pointing out here that there is a lot of very violent and strange behaviour going on that front At eight I in that Saturday and that Sunday, in an area where you only have three thousand people, I can't get over the act, I know that it would be pretty random, but I can't get were the idea that either real Nevins who killed that woman could across pass with Kerrigan or Kenneth, Alan and Harold Bleed could have crossed paths with them in lead and Alan would have needed. A vehicle is the way that it looks to me. This is a very good theory because, just because caravans body isn't found doesn't mean that they don't want anyone to know what happened apparently
the blood in the clothing being strewn about, and then that coat, hang left behind policed. We believe that whoever had done this one. people to know that it had happened and you don't really need a body for that, so it could be. They got rid of his body on the way out and just- and care about leaving it out in the open and if they just want the vehicle- Yeah, then, is not even about Kerrigan, which would separate these cases possibly, but the problem is as you say that and then what? If the person who had called out Rivera needed a vehicle in out it's like wolves, maybe robbery isn't about money? Maybe it's about the vehicle I mean. After all, it could be that these are carjack ings, essential. They works both ways. You could say someone get after the catholic Church and punish it by killing priest or they just need to be.
Because I think both of them sound legitimate, but it is odd that we just have the phone, on the first case, which really makes it feel like this was something against the church plus the fact that he suffered, but both these priests suffered so which is it I think it is quite possible that we're not dealing with the same killers and poultry. cases, but two unfortunate priests in both these cases if you have different perpetrators, is very likely. You have different motives as well, and I the desert a strong possibility. Here. I also given Father carians back round would not rule out a couple of other possibilities, one that the sexual abuse, was a motivating factor, it's time for a little vigilante justice here, I'm taking matters into my own hand, because if I doll my just shuffle I'm off to some other church and oh by the way he just in the town two days ago, what
damage. Is he going to do here and now in this new community answer That is something I think that we cannot rule. I may revenge is a huge factor. It's one of the number one reasons why somebody would kill another individual So I wouldn't rule out that being a possibility again. I would rule out something as simple as a couple of individual needed a use of vehicle- and they didn't know it- was a priest or care than was precept. They found and maybe they ve never killed anybody before I didn't know what to do, and it is sometimes there's no more, thought to these things than that. and so you know a lot of times when we look at these cases and there solved in their unsolved for so long. Some people jumped to the king. Version that their unsolved, because they're so incredibly complicated, sometimes it's just. No. We don't fully Knower recognizer understand some of these. Simpler parts in pieces
are involved in these cases right you could have to of an individual's that both have the same motive but leave it from crime scene, so one person might kill care again because of the abuse and other one may would have killed Kerrigan but left a sign or a note, letting p now. This is why this person died. sending a message, whereas the person what I just said. I'm just get rid of the trash again he like, said he came into town. He was there a couple days, the whole town, that area new who he was because he was coming in to take over that church. So he was much in the news. Well, in the other thing about the vehicle to I don't know exactly what Kerrigan was into. Maybe he went out to pick a manner the teenager cruising around. Gonna, pick up anybody and this the result, the other
in that I will throw out here- and this is not a theory of mind. This is one that I saw and read about in places, and I find it to be intriguing. I dont know how much weight that I put on it, but any time you talk about somebody who is luck, accusation one thing, but it sounds like these are pretty confirmed accusations against care again. Is there the chance it. Maybe he up and decided to leave and wants us to think that did something terrible happen to him that certainly possibility? I wouldn't put a high percentage on that, but you I find it strange because he went out and kind of rubbed elbows with summit people at a weird time. Right like I, was getting the feeling, though air, and that this was a rather small churchmen, irrigation. It felt we're to me now, given that the bakeries right across this, Maybe it's not so weird re. He tells people hey. I've been out doesn't say his direct words are not that night, but he says I've been taking evening walks to learn the the area
or was he going out of his way to to chat upper? you of the locals and then engine- hey I'm Goin back home, I'm in here just been moved or he just transferred or had he just done. Something else was it was this just another enough, stop for him. You know was he guilty of something and planes and shuffled off to another location Guy, it's possible in nice. Eighty three he had spent several months at the congregation of the servants of the parish cleat. This is hame is brings New Mexico die while the reason that place was founded was To have a place Priests who were having personal issues could go and work on them. It could be depression, it could be a diction or could be because they were accused of sex, abuse and record would indicate that it was the latter. That's
the information we have says. I am really hoping and praying for a break in the. The reverse case, of course, I would love to know what happened in both of these situations here, but just the the out poor of support or from the community when Rivera was found dead. It was just amazing the evil deeds. of compassion and respect the summit. People had four Bruno wherever there is a bit of a car, trust here and that's really in the end, what seems to be the division. Between these cases is the difference between these two men now we didn't know either one of them, but we a lot more about care. transgressions shall we say You don't really know anything about Rivera other than he was so well loved. We look these cases. You would hope
Rivera is just what he seemed to be this great guy. We know for a fact that, despite the troubles in that church, there are good priests. good people and almost every walk of life. Well it looks like there would be forensics in both these cases. We know that they have outwardly stated that and they were very case. There was a lot of blood that was found in the Kerrigan case again and I wouldn't want to assume that it was all his so There should be some friends acts in both of these cases and now we we ve. the story, and we can sit back, monitor and see if there will be a break in either one. need to warn people, though, because I'm sure they'll start heading out her bread, it and use. And wherever else, but this is a case that has allowed other cases sort of loosely linked to it and you about other priests and other people that disappear or were murdered, and how who? I wonder of
all of these cases are connected, but we covered these two weeks there, the main too. There are often brought up. That's trust me, they're, allow rabbit holes here and you spent many hours reading about all these different cases and how they could be connected We didn't even get to Curtis Homan. Yes, so there was a man named Curtis Homan who disappeared about two days after Father Kerrigan and his truck was found abandoned about forty miles from where care against me. what was discovered, the home and family very much believes that the cases are connected. but when I was reading up on it, there is a very good right up on the Charlie Project, which I urge everyone to check out and support if they can. But Holman was last seen him Missoula Montana. Angela twenty second eighteen, eighty four apparent he had left to go change. The battery
truck he had talked to his girlfriend, said I'll meet you later at a movie theater, but he never showed up. he was driving in eighteen, seventy six Toyota there was found on an Logging, road, near placid lake inside that vehicle, there, was a map spread out on the front seat and his wallet and eye glasses. Were there as well, but no keys. No blood no indication that he had had a inside the cab of his truck or anything but friends of his has said that he liked to scout different lakes for possible hiking. Now this is rugged terrain and they started a search and they found his shoeprints now. It's interesting is this guy, whereas size fifteen shoes, and of his shoe prance. Apparently moreover, laid with Grizzly bear tracks, so it's possible that he could and attacked by a hungry bear
but also there was a scout camp that was about twenty miles away. That report seeing a man who resigned the whole men who were rambling on about the Vietnam WAR and so the Lee at this camp, told them he had to go They don't really know if it was him, and certainly He had never served in Vietnam, and this isn't a situation where he just tried to get a fresh start and laughed because he had about twenty five grand in his bank account yeah. You would want to take that with you know when you, You would think, but again there are many names here yells other names like Reverend James Anderson, the go on, but these are two cases that really feel like the most similarities, that's why we covered them and you would be shocked when you start looking How many priest murders there have been right. I mean do you
look at these different websites in these different sources for to find information on the two cases that we ve covered and in no way at all. Do I feel, like his cases, connected at all to either one of these but dumb the other stuff. Lot of those out there. It's it's quite the list, so this time we're leaving them with some mystery, but hopefully one or these cases can be solved in future. Although river This case seems the better bad either these cases on their own would have been fascinating, but then to then possibility of, especially when you have the the detective from Santa FE saying he believes it. They're connected really made an intriguing, so good work to you for pig. In this case, we did the you are focusing on. The other is awesome babbling. I loved you and that one I was true. To come up with something that wasn't true cried because I dont get that opportunity on true crime. Garage. That's been women, favorite episodes fire in the sky. The thing was I'd,
forgotten all about that movie and then we're talking about that topic and in immediately. I remembered watching that movie as a kid- and I remember it- scared the crap out of me that movie not that I don't believin aliens now or the possibility of aliens now, but fire in the sky was more terrifying to me than Friday. The thirteenth, oh yeah, some like I would love to know if there's aliens, but I don't want to find out that way seen in communion when he sees the alien and his house creepy. You don't want that check, will my friend, I could share with you all night, and I would love to do so, but I but it's getting close to my bed time here, so I want to come up with, something non true crime for a future up. So you have an actual time in London and dumb put in a good word for me for a just and in the captain, then I will talk to you soon. You take care buddy you take her subscribe on.
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Transcript generated on 2022-03-03.