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valentine's day to everybody. Today's episode, I interview Tom Colbert, who is the author of the last master, outlaw

about db cooper now before anyone rules their eyes or disregards. This tom has a team of up to forty different researchers with backgrounds and law enforcement, legal government, just everything who have assisted him in researching and writing this book. Tom also appeared in in the crime documentary db cooper case closed on the history channel, his book flushes out all the ideas and theories and evidence that point to the suspect that thomas Colbert truly believes

is db cooper and how he got away with it. This is going to be a special episode for you. It's going to be ad free, so no sponsors for anyone that is unfamiliar with db cooper, which I couldn't imagine that being the case. Well, on november, twenty fourth nineteen, seventy one, a man going by the name dan cooper boards, an airplane. He reveals a suitcase full of explosives and hijacks the plane. He asked for two hundred thousand dollars in ransom and a parachute and ended up jumping out of the plane in between portland oregon and seattle, Washington, with the money speculation of whether he survived this jump and other suspects have run a bow. and for many decades it just might be possible that thomas Colbert has solved the mystery. Our you, just as I am doing good just going back.

For my notes and gone over your book in our db cooper so it was worth of our top episodes fro time. I will say that Erin cited more with. He didn't survived the jump. I he could have survived the job myself, but thou hast thou is, as far as my speculation went from there until I read your book. I think the book has opened up a lot of eyes, especially when you got his vietnam commander, saying I watched it. He had to go to hell attitude and he would jump out of planes illegally. He loved and he was trained by halo, jumpers, yeah, jato, high altitude, low open, but I've got some big news for you guys tonight, you're the first

broadcast slash. You know, podcast anywhere in the world. We are six month fight to get the D b cooper files. It's been estimated. Seventy two hundred thousand pages on the first pages were released tonight. We're we're ecstatic and we have them exclusively two hundred pages on our website tonight. For you you're listeners, that's crazy! What was it long fight, they ve been fighting us, as you probably read the book and we're just thrill to a court order. They had to release agenda with t t tha gritted I came out, there are right now, just on our website will eventually be opening up, be I websites have you been Well, the go through a lot of it. Yet having You know I came to get prepared for you, my

and he just tipped off the american and international media. Last three hours, I've been sending The press release with ie the dry steady, be cooper, dot com for them to deserts. I mean from you name it from new york times the wires to foreign press and so forth is a big, interest to. Even, as you know, I don't have to tell you- is trusted the sultan is it. I was a little disappointed to see that the the f b I and and the government had kind of not closed the case but shelved the case will be able, depending on what your time is, tell you what really happened jesse perfect, though wanted to introduce yourself and the book he wrote in how long you been working on it. I am a co author and the lion's share of it goes to my author that I brought on Tom solacing I'm sorry, I see is phenomenal writer.

the writer book writer at a professor of screen. Writing it loyal a married man than I recruited him to work with me on this. I'm the guy that does the research- that's my specialty from sea s news and paramount television? Is a story editor? I love being in the front. Row of history handing it off to all those other folks being there to witness it. Either by phone or in person is, is my passion. I was lucky enough to get this author. We came on board. We put this book together with the help of called case team on the facts and it is called the last master outlaw name is chosen for a reason. If you look back in history, into england at the time of robin hood the synonym for his name for the leaders in the forest. They were called the master outlaws and they look really had crowns. That's what robin hood was well. when I was a teenager and when this jump happened, a lot of the old bees. They weren't old, then in the seventies

all this guy, robin hood them up with that definition. He didn't given money to the poor. Now, so we used the title. The last master outlaw because, frankly master how laws, because of tat- biology everything from crime data this is too forensics from dna, too two- why you know apps that you can track people now, it's really hard to be anonymous any more as a criminal pied things as we all know, watching shows and streaming episodes in you see. You know the crime is change this with the guy on the very edge, the customer that error era, the first era. I we everybody talks about. There was a great movie. but cassidy in the sunday as kid that was about my own where's transitioning into where banks started hiring their own private security and their famous lines

A movie, who are those guys are key following a city. Tat was the end of the bank robber air and the next one was of course was the gangsters of the twenties and thirtys, which was my dad's areas, kid he loved reading about dillinger embodying clyde are person that we were so fascinated with us. Teenager. I was transitioning from grammar school to high school and looking at the back of my dad's papered, his chair, there is the story of db cooper. Our generation love this guy because he's he's really the last western outlaw that is not identified. A fish Are they got away and it just doesn't happen anymore. That sense accent absolutely does, because you think, could somebody get away with that today, especially in the post, nine eleven era, it's not gonna happen absolutely that's when I realized it. When we received this type and we'll talk about it

I realise that technology had changed since then, and we had a lot of potential. for a cold case team in that's something I have one foot in media and I have one foot in police fire, military training. I've been a trainer for thirty five years. I was recruited by state of california, because, as my dad used to say, You definitely have verbal diarrhoea. You know how to talk on the phone and my dad was a shrink. So with his talents and in my gift of gab, I am able to approach strangers phone like a good host to the show. I you know Somebody really saying when you talk to them, even though you're not using the words and asked the benefit that we have as news people in the newsroom. Is that we get a call and we can sense, panic weakened, hence lies and

It was quite an adventure on this talking to former Drug runners in our was bootleggers and lovers, and ex wives trying to find the truth AL in this part of it by explaining that one cop in our cold case team, said to me, he said, when you think about it. Tom you're, really, the only one that could do this at the end and what he meant by that was year in a network researcher which is like a cop detective. You've been training law enforcement, so you got a rolodex old fashioned rolodex with hundreds of names in every department, and I was blessed for the last five six years thought it was going to be three years, but it turned out to be six. I was blessed to the point where I didn't have to have a paycheck during this. Period to focus on this case. It's tv that says a cop can spend years on a case doesn't happen any more. The average of b I agent

as more than two dozen cases at once same with law enforcement, detectives they've got countless cases, nobody has the ability to spend years. Looking at an investigation, Think about it. With this cold kissed him most of em, retired and voluntary arm chair consultants, I could call at any time I was able to put this together with this thousand years of experience from my cold cased. Him call on these brains this frankly we needed every one of them. This guy is off the scale. Genius, I mean it three college degrees. It became a professor as well too. about later. I heard of a department at a university, but he was a bad kid with bad habits that in essence, paint

he became instead of a brilliant guy for society. He became a bad boy. You know, according to the book, it's it reads like a bibliography of his life. It's really telling, especially during his military career, how he was very just outlined: he wanted to do things, but the rules and regulations be damned. I've had judges, family members coworkers all describe them as a narcissistic sociopath, an absolute social gap. As a kid, Never really. Discipline by his parents were struggling in us. Inside. He was so good, looking and so slick with his words that everybody would just let him off he'd never have to pay for his crimes. People let him out of jail. Is you probably read they just let him walk out, so he had this idea that I can. I can. use, my guess too,

when anything? I want, I don't care about anybody's feelings and that's what a sociopath dunce- and there are countless examples of that in his book. The last master outlaw it's important for your readers to know that, besides the cold case team and my writer, the other heroes in the story are six women that turned him in to the wives, getaway girl, we collar that caught up with a month to escapes a hollywood producer up and to be his cocaine partner. And his sister. God bless her, who want or deathbed qualified as it is a deathbed confession. She alerted us just before tracking. on his own sibling.

Before interview she said she had recurrent cancer and of course we didn't want to do it at that point she said I have to speak for my father and she did- and she gave me four and a half hour interview of this man's life, and some of that is up on tv cooper, dot com where help your audience goes and study some of the information and articles, but you can, linda up there as well as see us face off against our suspect, with former fbi armed in sandy go where he lives with his three and a half minutes of footage up there, and I must say he put his foot in his mouth a couple of times yeah he he doesn't do himself any favors when he talks to the media or anyone really I've looked.

At other people, you know accused of murder and and whatnot of whatever crimes we cover and even though there's no physical evidence tying them to the case. They make themselves, look so guilty with their behavior that it's it's hard to pass that by. But in this there's a lot of tie ins, there's so many people that will cite him as well yeah. That looks like the guy that I saw at this party or that the guy that was on the plane that day and there's just so many tie ins that it's hard to just disregard it. The way some of the f b I agents have well, I think, it's important to remember

in seventy nine. The crime happened at seventy one, but when he got away in our view he got away and he didn't become on their radar until nineteen seventy eight when they caught up with him out of the country during one of his escapes and it was local cops, the tip the fbi said you need to look at the sky. We looked at a sketch, he looks like Guy he's got the skill sets he's a pilot he's up paratrooper and so the beyond was roped into it by a very smart, private, investigator and local enforcing and ironically, that private investigator has proven to be key for us. You may read jack human door. Him door was hired by the family, to address its fine one of our suspects. Relatives and

We found he's still alive and he's on our cold case team at eighty three and is sharp as a whip. He is a great poi up in san francisco and he's been crucial. As I like to tell people about her cold case team, the forty members I call them the spokes on- is slow, we'll adjust. Each one of them. We needed to move forward any one of them. If there were gone, we would be stopped, and so We have such a wonder in interesting mosaic of people and you're, not tied down to city budgets or police budgets, or anything you guys are just going and research we don't have to worry about jurisdictions. I don't have to worry about politics. Bottom line is the internet, as you know, and I'm sure your listeners now has made us all neighbourhood watch, people to the world, it be local, it can be national, it can be international and in essence, we use the internet as

Two of my court case. Members are cyber spies. And they were all but hey. Look. We have twenty seven different personalities or I should say identities. We tracked down the sky there not only run around the world are run around on the internet. It allows, as you say, no borders. So what's ay, I guess a summary of his his military career and leading up to this event. As one person on our team, don re was probably one of the best government document searchers. He found a photo of this man just about a year or so before the actual job, a photo that the f b I didn't even have in his nineteen seventeen file. We got it out of the records in saint louis

and they asked for a copy. We were more than happy to give it to them, and you ve seen the photo, I'm sure in its up on the website, for your folks There are nine points of match on that photo and the number to sketch, which is considered the most accurate. This is a guy who started as a state nash. Guard he went to the watch riots, which was a horrible event down an african american community back in there I want to see early sixties. Ah, he He became army reserve. Then he became regular army that he became a pilot. Then he became a jumper. I medical on and on and on trade by special forces blurred out a fly. Whichever I mean this was the chopper war vietnam. So he learned how fly two or three different shoppers and fixed wing aircraft during the war. When you explain that at such a crazy military career, because he's

He would probably have been considered highly decorated or at least stay a highly accomplished. Military member was- and if you know anything about, fly voice, miller sorry guys and in gas, and many of them are mavericks. Many of them are just like. You know that the movie bottom line is there: their rough fighters and their rough people on the ground and racks profit that very well. He earned more than forty up to fifty metals and and honours. Ah, he got to distinguish flying crosses, dear seized, their called. You got two of those are like the highest metal for any pile he got a silver star got braun star. He got term thirty, seven air metals. This guy was incredible,

and in essence, what he was doing was flying a huge aircraft which is as support aircraft, not a weapon ship, and he would just like a. The old joke about lawyers, monitoring, police frequencies, ambulance chasing lawyers. He wasn't a chopper chasing rescuer. He was working in the mechanical mechanic section of first calf. He was in charge of repairing and keeping the airships running, but I was kind of uber division, I have first calf and they could go anywhere any time, so he was monitoring frequencies and he would hear particular manner being surrounded on fire, based by the b, a calm and he'd flying rescue and pull him out or he'd find out guys we're trapped and wounded in a surrounded and he'd jump in with a chopper, he became very famous. Among the brass. The generals wanted him and became involved with

shall units especial helicopter unit. There was involved had surveillance, but there was a very famous episode in vietnam. Where the american army crossed to Cambodia and if people know their histories, that was not sanction. I was not approved bike about the cambodia we just did so it's a controversial step. It went on for several months our guy was recruited by the general in charge of the invasion He was sitting next to history? For that bow, that's how famous R d b cooper! It is everywhere, anytime, for he had rescued a general his last day of sea metal, we rescued the general and, shortly after he was brought home when he was appointed head of the army division of testing new choppers big long title at fort Rucker, a glory position he had it made. He and his wife and his kids

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The guys in the foxhole speck then with it look the other way when they come back and get drunk and hit somebody or beat get bar fight sir, beat their mates. It was all that's the unless man he's just releasing, but when this guy became if lieutenant it was about the time when his kids were all enough when he starts hitting the mob that it was wrong. They were like three to five years old and they started screaming for the first time when he got back in about two february of seventy one and the mps came, then they heard that he bit beating his wife for seven years now they couldn't get em on beating the wife, because that would open a can of worms with the definition. Of abuse back there. Now it's all differently, no in the military, but back then they had to look, and so they started in February investigating and they find out. This guy had fate attending to college.

he was actually a high school drop out at sophomore year. So they said well, we could get him in then he faked metals. He faked words he fake division titles. He said he was a green beret know he was trained by green berets, so I had enough to boot about in the army, and that was in june of seventy one. It was a shock to him. It was the first time in his life. He had a career lined up and suddenly the military said we gotta get him out. This is what we believe led to his actions as db cooper. He was disgruntled, he was upset the system and in the military and everything- and we have that I witnessed from his incredible sister talking about he came home. He couldn't say a nice thing about the military. That sister later after it occurred. Many years later, the f b I came to her and said you know we have a letter from your brother where he just blew up at the military after he was let go.

we think that letter and on paraphrasing, obviously what she told us. We think that letter was the motive to become the cooper. He had a uncle, ass, he had an uncle was dissolved name. Well, it's no coincidence. His name was edward cooper. As you may know, in your listeners, some of them may know that, right after the job, the f b, I went looking for coopers. The real cooper signed his name dan cooper. one day in a, I believe, was a police station? A p? U p, I reporters both claim that they are We heard the cop say will where we going next, let's looking down the list of coopers on the phone book, let's do this db cooper and it stuck well when our man was facing some unrelated charges in california and seventy seven. Seventy eight here and seventy nine after several. Scapes in

me: he never stopped. He would escape during bail. You escape between trials will at one point he got off the phone. called a newsroom, and that was right here in los angeles, can be sick and that's where some of my people vault in the investigation I went to and one of the Ms dawn ray, I told you about earlier. The investigator was so good, given getting government documents well in seventy nine. He was a vietnam that and a rookie researcher, it can be said: when the phone rang and he's editor pete noise noise is still alive. He isn't famous journalist on the west coast. He found Charlie manson for the cops. He was the role model for luger and the old tv show mary tyler more grant. It was modeled on pete noise. Pete boys was notorious for throwing typewriters across the newsroom. Well, that was his boss in his boss, got a call from

guy, Robert w rack, straw and rags draw said: well, I'm cooper, Debbie cooper and pete noise, just like Lou grass at prove it as well. Have an uncle. I'm in jail right now appear I would be happy to talk to you, but I have an uncle was a teenager. I used to watch jump in phoenix he's done over two thousand jobs in his name. Is it cooper and that's where it took the name? So pete noise turns to the rookie researcher dot ray. What am I meant, tourists and says to him find this guy, so he spent the next day and have hunting down ed cooper in phoenix living in the desert and dies out camping in his camper Annie. Wait still comes back any. Was in says, yeah, that's my nephew. What does he up to now? He knew nothing about the coup

caper, but he knew he was a troublemaker and that's how they confirmed interest in MR rack, strong, that's when pete noise at let's go up and talk to the sky and you're listeners at db, cooper, debt, I can watch some of that interview in the three and a half minutes. You'll see him talk he sitting down at it Saying: are you cooper when we could be? I might be, I'm scared heights. He played with reporters. He was very good at it. But it was his own phone call that brought the attention upon himself. You would call newspaper except saying? Hey? Do you want to interview me? I might be cooper. I mean this. This is remember narcissistic sociopath, who likes the attention, but it when it comes to officially being he kinda, pulls back very clever member, whose train by special forces and deception in propaganda and

He went out with agreed green cia unsanctioned meetings when he was. flying is chopper heat he was drunk being a stolen commanders cheek, he had not yet another vision mounted a fifty cow on at loaded with closest because he was an explosive experts and he walked Do a bar and introduced himself to the cia guy there and then he'd fly out the fuelling stop on a mountain and the special forces guys in his cheek, and he go out for two to three days at the very cavalier attitude that, while establishing that he has a military background, he has explosives background and we all know db cooper had dynamite or what he claimed to be explosives and his briefcase, and he knows how to jump out aeroplanes or anything really for that matter, has all the skills needed as cooper and, as his commander said to us, he said he absolutely believes he's cooper

members the trouble he was in. he'd walk up to his commander and when left is unity. He left one unit cause. He got a trouble he saw the commander essay captain, I'm goin out the south vietnamese jumpers you wanna, come other city goes. that's, not sanction, he says: well, I'm gone anyway that with his attitude and that's racks, draws life attitude, so he's kicked out because he falsified all this information documentation to get in now he is travelling around under an assumed name. The one I wrote down was the normandy winters. Well, that's one of his what we ve documented twenty seven fake identities, the most famous, because when he left for record alabama, there is a record of him leaving in the least car, and we know that

because when the fbi investigated in seventy nine they found there was still a warrant eight years later on that least car. He just stop paying for it and split now eventually that summer, hooked up with his family in northern california, little town called valley, spread, any setting out a job up north flying up for real too well, we have the exact day he arrived in a story a word Ah, he wound up a visiting two or three towns, and we have over fifteen witnesses and two towns witnesses. I dont even know each other who all recognise the news. Video from can be see that we showed its fascinating to see these people and their sixtys and seventys. Look

at the take going. Oh my gosh! That's the way he looked down. That's it! That's his voice! Tat normandy winter is mannerisms in everything, so very unusual. This man handsome clever, courteous. No one forgets I have, seven letters from normandy winter to his targets and witnesses up there. They still have their letters they haven't thrown away. They were so affected by this man. Were they liked them or not, and those letters have proven to be very valuable, forensically on the identity of our guy people that think db Cooper died during the jump through? What do you say is your theory that he's not dead? What is your evidence or fax at say? I do

I believe that he lived well, I know he lives and I know where man is db cooper. I'm beyond saying- and I believe I know that we have a hundred and two pieces of evidence. We have wit Is that a hosted him for five months up there who he would appear at nighttime and go out to the bars restaurants and tell stories and stay on couches, but during the day, as he told his family, we believe he stole a plane. We believe he went up there with at least car found a playing claimed. It is his own and started flying during the day following the judge and seeing their patterns, he did a as his command said he you know, cooper was did amazing rica well, army ended, recall, was trade and he followed the flight patterns figured out the best times even studied the area at night. He knew that ground up. There was an eight miles strip of land between mountains that all the jets

now. The only other choice from seattle is the ocean, but most of them came down that one corridor that dumps right into portland and he knew that and he studied everything day and night so that when he would make a jump, we believe he was prepared, and so he found a a few key jump. Bought one was next to the damn, so there was light and possibly a water landing things like that that are close by where the where the alleged drop zone happened, yup yup, he commented on the plane. He said there is such and such air force base. There is the town so in, so he was pointing them out to be stewardess by the way the flight attendants we spoken to still be called stewardess and so were using the old title being sexist here, that's their preference he talked to them and pointed the mound said that this that's that he was planting.

Idea. He was from that area and he wasn't. He was from California and that's that, see all the main paratroopers came back that the military air, the f b I looked out on the northwest. They were, they smoke jumpers where they military guys who lived up there. they boeing employees all in the northwest and when this man was found in california in the middle of other crimes and end california, F, b, tipped off seattle. Seattle was grudgingly interested. They were, they really didn't, wanna, consider him and there was a line. Pete noise wound up calling his favorite fbi agent los angeles about this guy at present have to the phone call. It can't be sea and said to his is his contacts. Nickname was frenchy at the f b. I said french

It is this guy cooper and he says pete you're, going down the wrong way, he's a con artist and he's too young. That was the summary yeah and he's a con artist. Well, I don't know many criminals that aren't wire settled by you that throws that out. Okay, but as far as too young, he was twenty Wait and if you study soldiers or your listeners, know people coming back from war zones, it ages, you a little bit yeah for ages. You- and if you look at this man's picture on the website, the military id picture, which has rack straw below it you're looking at a man, twenty eight. Who could be thirty? Five, exactly losing his hair, iser sunk in he looks, were very warm and men and women and combat that's what happens to them. Are we believe you were make up one of the stewardess who says I know make up and there was make up on that guy and the passenger, who

We trust will mitchell who was a college kids sitting across from here. He said the guy's hair was black jet black like it had been die. So he will remember. He was trained in deception and I have no doubt he tried to make himself look like an older businessman exactly and he was wearing sunglasses most of the time and that there's other aspects to his costume as we want might call it. I don't put a lot of stock in handwriting analysis, but that's not to say that I disbelieve it now. There is something that I learned in your book that I found very telling of how I believe now that he lived through the jump and that, as he signed his name on his plane ticket and that adds up- or at least some handwriting analysis

experts believe that the writing on their matches up with a letter that was written in right in that's an amazing story. The there was there were seven letters written by normandy winter before the job and after the jump there was actually four of those seven were written after the do, you want to go back. The corvallis is his second down in writing. Some of the people back in town to say he's on his way. Sorry can see them anymore, but then he wrote five letters between the jump and december. Second, twenty. Seventh, twenty seventh five letters. I'm sorry for letters at the four letters were delivered by airmail, again we're talking about a man we build

stole a play? It will explain why at the end, he the first and last letters were mailed from northern california and they were sent to the reno paper and then the second one he traveled it was mailed from vancouver b c, and we know that because of the time stamp on it. The third letter was mail from or oregon to the origami and and, as I said, the fourth one from northern California was again mail to the reno paper as the first what's interesting about these letters is the first and last they were both dropped in mailboxes from thirty to fifty miles, from his small town. In the high seas of ours, the foothills, a town of fifteen hundred people were, as parents lived five hundred miles from the crime scene. So when you look in the book there is a map showing the letter drops. It looks to me.

like he was trying to throw the fbi off, and I give an example when you wrote the oregon one. He said I'm in my home town of I appeal for Portland Oregon, trying to throw them off I'm watching the football game, the great cut game that was the second He said from bank over while the second was the most interesting of the four letters and by the way I want to remind your listeners, these lists were saved, gathered up and saved by the original agents. Now the current agents. the distant. They say we can't prove anything What was my wife and I looked at the letters they were talked about and revealed at dug up by a well known investigator, an attorney now who's been alive. Long poop right, Galen, cook and gale. A cook found the letters. Any his opinion was

he felt it was the escape trail. That was only part of it. As I said, I think be. Letters were proud planted up and down the coast to throw off the fbi. He was home. He got home on that plane, please. But it's the letter. You hinted at its fascinating three of the four were cut and pasted words from newspapers and magazines. Act as though be a killer did putting words into letters, but the second one was handwritten. We it wasn't plant. We think he went to the great cup football game in canada and in in I was there for the trip he mentions than in the letter. And what does he say in the letter, his ego Like a narcissist like a sociopath, his ego was hurt, he commented and an paraphrasing. He says, like I expected this f b, I drawing of me. It looks nothing like me and that's what the words say in the letter and he said I'm enjoying the grey cup game

inside it off what what's interesting. My wife and I looked at that letter and then we looked at the airline boarding pass that damn cooper side is. It was damp cooper, his side and I'm looking at the nine letters of the print and my wife looking at the hand printed letter in british columbia and we just sit holy cow. This thing they match their key letters that man We went out and try to find the best document examiner in the west, and we did. His name is lynton Mohammed he's out of san Francisco, wonderful me from the bahamas, and he goes to court cases from england the candidate to the? U s, to the bahamas. He's done over a hundred american cases. Any the former president of the court room, doc, question documents, examiners and he looked at the letter and-

Looked at the boarding pass it he said there our similarities and it appears there were written by one man. Now I just brought in a second person. just to be extra careful. Now that was three years ago. I just brought it last week, a former fbi, forensic experts, whose done hundreds his- and he knows, lynton, bahamas reputation. He studied his exam and he concurs. So if you believe those four db cooper letters high on db cooper, you can't find me type taunting if you believe, because they came from rack straw, the first to last in mailboxes there he had a plane and you think he mailed those. We have just put him on the boarding line as db cooper it. He reminds me of the robert durst situation, where he misspelled beverly hills, though yeah. That's a that's an interesting case too, but that's one of the

but the most important. I think one of the most important things we did is find bill. Mitchell built mitchell was, as I said, the college student who sat in the same aisle across the aisle from the coupe and, of course, in them. The stewardess sat next him for four hours. I tell you that we brought in some csi experts in some psychologists, and there is evidence that all three stewardesses had traumatic, traumatic memory loss. From this day, we ve track down to fbi, agents that interview tina and said she would never be able to testify in court this achieved. All she said was can't remember where they interviewed or ten years after the event, they just said, tat. She could never testify, but bottom line is everybody wanted. Mitchell Mitchell has never spoken in america, the media this college kid the reason he was so valuable. Your audience should know. None of the passengers were told. There was a hijacking

What are they said? There is an urgent problem, so they circle for two the three reports with an edge problem. Finally, the monies ray the parachutes ready? They land the passengers leave and they learn the truth. So you can understand their witness is not coloured by fear or coloured by trauma. Bill Mitchell had a good look at the sky and the reason he kept looking at a miss because all the kids stewardesses were sitting stop it does he told me he said I'm looking at this old guys, balding with turkey, nagging at its sitting there and these get all what's wrong with me. I'm a strap and college kid does

so he kept studying the sky while he became the principal source for sketch number two and your audience will see that our db cooper, dot com and that's the darker skinned more detailed face. We have had active law enforcement and cold case members. Look at that sketch and look at mister extras army pictures and there are nine points of match. A judge will get a court warrant based on three or four. I mean it's amazing. How close they are. It's a very nice hand of the new mitchell. It's it's very uncanny. The the similarities there in Mitchell. He didn't see the bomb he didn't

I have to stay on the plane. He didn't have the traumatic experience they all left. He let them all off. When they got the money. Gina brought the sacks, they were wondering what was in the sacks that doesn't have a big dollar bill on it. Like a cartoon, you know, a big dollar sign is just a big sack and he brought it in and laughed she's, bringing in the parachutes which were still their containers ends. was until they get on the bus when they read dan cooper. He didn't answer when they read the the list of passengers that billing mitchell said. Oh, it's must be that guy in the back yard and so that's when they figured it out, but that was key and that's why Billy Mitchell was critical for investigation and again I wanted to do it by the book I brought in one of the best law enforcement people. I knew whose retired law enforcement-

at the time from portland, detective sergeant and John bush. A lot is his name John. Has that hundreds of what are called six packs will lack a police lineup. They take six pictures and they cut out little squares and a folder and put the pictures and were no names are shouldering us just the pictures so that people can look at the six pictures and quaint he came in. He did a six lay out with MR rack straw. Among the six all black and white from the era said nobody would be back in the color one looking at them and what does he do right to our guy? You misidentified him right now. He explained to us after the job after he was help. Do the sketch he went back to college? I think he was it always you and FBI were coming in every week with about ten to twenty five photos, and he said I was a little nervous year ended. My dorm

the marijuana smoke solar and seventy one and the f b? I tell her we're not here for that. We have some photos to show you so they're showing, and this went on for about a year and a half. He was looking at hundreds of photos springing it and he does nope nope nope nope. Then they stopped coming to him and he just made the decision he was. Everybody was looking for me to sit, I'm never. I talk about this. He really didn't follow the korean or the coop write stories and all the different suspects and so for forth. Then he got a call in he's. Never done. As I said any tv, I note major print and then he gets a call in two thousand and eight from the british. they're doing a documentary on another hijacker the year later by the name of mccoy. There is a book called the real mccoy was written by two fbi age

The audience should know these two f b. I agents are critical to our investigation of what they discovered. They truly felt he could have been db cooper. It's been discounted because mccoy was elsewhere at the time, but bottom line was admit this mccoy I he was fast. it Billy Mitchell. When they approached the said, would you like to come in and endured comment on, could speak of burnt out, so they interviewed him for the british documentary it with. We. Only team, he knew mccoy from two thousand and eight. So when he looked at that picture, where did he say he said? Well, I know that's mccoy, so I know that he's not not yet why detective sergeant said? Could we ask you to leave the room a minute and sure we walked out and he turns to us? He says you guys and Nicole kissed him. I have never ridden hundreds of doing this. That's never happened or it was the right guy and causing the wrongly yeah anyone

If we didn't figure it out, we brought a psychologist in and we brought in a see us. I expert as you see in the book, and they talk about well, he pointed at the man he believes is cooper, but the only name he he didn't know rack storage It ain't! No actual, that's somebody! I know, and I know he is exonerated while the the detective sergeant brought him back in, and he said I gotta tell you, that's not mccoy. His eyes got really big and he looks back for another few minutes. After Few minutes of looking. He just said, I'm sorry after forty years I can't ethically say this is him,

I mean all I remember in the face of my sketch. That's all I can remember the face my sketch well, one of my active detectors in south carolina. Still, it acted detective filled in the dots for us. He said I think about this. For a moment, he saying he can't think of anything but the sketch. When he looks at that man, he said that man matches the sketch so much. It looks like the sketch would lead. On top of the picture that is here reacting to the only if you can remember, and then the psychology said he's had this in the back of his head all this time that face and it's locked in their it till he saw the picture. Then he unlocked it. but couldn't explain so he said. I absolutely believe that was a credible point. That's the one of the strongest bits of information

between the the handwriting analysis, him identifying him and then the his uncle having the last name cooper and then finally, there was the drug dealer briggs that he ended up hooking up with, I felt that was sort of a just an ironic way too. Coincidental tion will bring the rigs in one minute. It's not in the book. I want you to know. We have new information, criticism of the f b. I is it well, you know they're in their sixties and seventies, senior prejudice. You know how do we even know norman was up there well or fit

witness who watched the documentary looks at that rock strong coast stairs dormant this woman dubbed bless. Her is kind of a pack rat. She, you know people that have aisles and they pursue their own. They choose to throw them away while she starts digging and she finds two columns. Two articles in the historian paper that the story of paper never do were written. When I called them, I said: did you guys ever write about normandy winter, the Alex never heard of them? Now we did. She had an itchy pulled about, and in these articles it's fascinating was it there and there on the website, and I tell your people to look at an article called and it deals with a story you add in

The title talks about giving new developments are deeply cooper, but at the bottom of the article they'll see they get they look, for it are the two old articles and it mentions everything our own people are saying he stole thousands as a christian, her, he wounded nine them. My favorite is have a yearly ball up. There called the admiral's ball, everybody dresses, normandy, winter was especial guest, and so for weeks we ve been put it gonna walk reward up there through the paper say if you have an old photo album parents with norman winter. In the background, the ban from switzerland letter

snow when you get a thousand bucks, well you're, asking people by age in their sixtys and seventys to go look into their parents focus on gas, and we ve had no luck on that it. But here's the other thing that came at last bit of news another. We ve got a lot of calls for viewers and people that are fascinated by this story and in that area, and I get a call

from another army guy and he says every time of the dark. I heard the name normandy winter was liked. Somebody hit me in the head. He said your guy went to airborne school and parachute school. There's only one army airborne school and they teach in as the parachute base, and he went there in one of the founders of the base is dick winters. He is Kiro from the invasion of normandy and his nickname was normandy, winters and he says I'll bet. You use that name just like uber in town, in their fascinating yeah, just one more time to happen. This did you just keep cover did bricks. Deck breaks is how we got involved in this case a twenty year cameraman. I've been working with who lives and egg, as he has his own network of sources. The casinos and I'll come to him. Hey we got a drug, we all

who's got stories. We ve got it all over here. We got this that well, he ate he's directed to a guy who's about grandpa and uses. I've got something on my so when get off, and so my guy sit down in front of a camera and he says this is about february of twenty twenty eleven and he says you know, I'm not proud about. Two years of my life, I was a runner further for cooking traffickers in portland and would run the phoenix arena and so forth. But the reason I want to talk to you about his my drug dealer, one After about a year of telling us he was cooper, he kept saying I'm cooper and back then came the laws of the book with cocaine. The drug traffickers were, driven around a bentleys rolls were places and his drug traffickers was at the back seat of a badly. He called in his drug runner at his partner and said, look and basically said

add to his rudder. As you know, you guys are doing great work and want to let you do and db cooper and they didn't laugh at him. They say: okay, boss, you know they believe it does look like can be shorter, but here he's claiming he's cooked restaurant crew, video as he was in vietnam, he's talkative. Better vietnam, our main source, run pearl citizens, no wrong. Even talk, we'd be covered a festival up there at the they have at the bar every year. he's wearing a t shirt, that's the soul. I d be cooper, is drug traffickers walk around and taking? actions with people, don't say it out loud, but on the way back run karlsson told her cameraman after a year this he said a cocaine party on the columbia river in an apartment with a drug middle man that works for or the traffickers and its crew

and the trafficker comes over again to to that are going on jerry cubs induces. Look. I know you guys don't believe october. You ve got to try to convince you, but I'm with you now and he shut the window Liberty says you see the door sure over there in three or four days that couple over there and he points out a hippie look at couple is run and called it. If you look a couple there they and the Boy are gonna find money on that shore in four days five days, and these guys are like ok, boss. This fight I want to introduce you to them. No, no, no! We're not fine and the color say that I go on another run and they leech again at the league and they get to reno where they get into a hotel and they've got a couple of girlfriends with him and and there

it's tired! It's late at night and braun takes a shower. He comes out of the shower. He puts on the tv and there he says is the couple with their boy. On a tuesday night, standing on a tuesday day. This was night than the evening. It was showing them talking to the fbi and explaining how they found the money on the door shore, I will tell you as a CBS news station researcher. I would get cooper calls once every month or two in the news in the nineties. Ladys, and I draw my eyes. Oh here we go again and always my husband on his death bed. It was my uncle I know my neighbors cooper people would bring in manifestoes of their writings. It was part of doing the job, but when somebody said this had to do with a set up on the river as a police trainer-

the water cooler during our classes. Everybody would always say they never believed the couple on the shore. They said that money, just it three, he's down in the sand. Seven years later come on when nobody could prove it that was set up to the minute. I heard that that's when I grabbed my steno book, because I said this is something this might explain it. That's what made me realize. We had something series I spent the next, months. Looking into that trafficker, first thing I learned out: he died in a mysterious one car crash three months after that money was found interested. Then I tried reaching out to his grammar school friends, frat brothers college in work maids and I'm talking to various in and I must say, hey. Could your friend had been db cooper, I'm saying, could you're free? and we all know is a trafficker could could he have taken down a bank? Could he have robbed a train?

yes, if it ever since he was a party boy, he was just a suppliers was drunk all the time, and I'm here in this all the way through a well the last guy called another spoken or we'll a guy by the name of ah pudgy hut. Now I don't know why, you, but I've seen a lot of movies with bartenders by the neighbour pudgy that black our guy was a bartender with the name of pudgy, and so I purposely made him my last call and what I did. He was gruff, but the minute I mentioned dick brings his frat brother from college. He just looked like a puppy dog. Is I love that guy? He was amazing. He went dark, he went dark into drugs, but I was there for him all the time. During his problems, so forth and I just took a chance. I said you know I gotta ask you, you know, did you over the last year of his life, he was claimed to be cooper and he laughed at his feet. Could about cooper. Is a party boyhood thinking, cheese,

and then he said in the same breath. But you know I work with them on a job legs and floors were putting floors together, california and the form format only introduced into was a former vietnam that, in fact, I think he was a one time db, cooper suspect by the name of robert rack straw and I'm going Jesus. You just found my cry upon it, and so I find out that they were secret crime partners for seven years. So after eight months on the wrong guy, I turned and started looking into this man, but of course he was deflecting and trying to distance himself from the criminal activities with rapture. The rock straw, oh yes said, and he was is broke, makes people write his own letters. I mean he's very sophisticated, but

started looking into central california, where he was from key areas: Stockton, California, where he was facing several different trials for czech, tidying hoarding explosives. Stealing planes and cars and and the con in writing. Checks, his dad's name. This I'm reading end, I should say I called the started paper and others in the stop. These remember. Seventy eight, seventy nine there was no micro fish in the seventies, there's no records they get all of their some hanging in libraries and would sticks, but there were none. Then the librarian says. Well, I found a paper bag. Somebody had clipped all his trial articles.

And she started laying a modest scanner. Some saint from the seventy said. I got it again. Everybody keeps her notes, but this guy stuff these in a bag. Somebody may want these sunday and I was the guide and I got fifty one articles of history of his trials, what he said in court. Ah, the confrontations, it's amazing it put flesh blood and a heart into this man's case, and that's when I realized. I think I know who planted that money and that's how it was led that way as a crime I will tell you the boat with the key person that that put the pieces together between these two men was the drug dealers own son. He was thirteen at the time,

and he grew up to be an army career guy he's now fighting it s eyes all still there very smart. God look the sky, and I approached him on behalf of his dead fatherless Look. I gotta talk to you about your father and he says I loved my dad, but I know what he was doing gotta know his history and he had no idea about. Rockstar dry knew that certainly would bring it up. I said I need your dad's background, so he filled in the details of his drug days and so forth, and at one point I sent him a version of the investigate s report that my team was putting together and I are as it's called the fbi this it look at you look at your dad section, make sure it's accurate so little time period which attitude is that'd, be happy to and we'd become friends for a year and a half, and I trusted him as senate over. I send her the background to tell me about his father and make sure it's accurate. Any immediate calls me back at his time

I know this man, but I I'm saying what man he says. I'm looking on page such and such this picture this this guy rack straw. He tried to kill me and I said what he meant it. He says I was in my room staring down at the driveway. My dad is meeting a guy on a motorcycle who has got up beard, unkempt hair and I love motorcycles. I ran down as a thirteen year old who look at his bike. That's a green! Now saki he's totally members and the guy Is anyone rightly puts me in the back seat any proceeds to dry seventy ninety miles around.

down the street pop and we leave turning burning, rubber and unscrewing meet a whole yelling and keep pushing me off the back seat, and I ran to my room- and I heard him tell him I dare I gave him quite all right I'll, never forget this man, that's when he put timeline to rack straw being there now. You should know my best gaiters. We have verified for other meetings between these guys. This is the second time we believe this was the meeting. This was in late, seventy nine, the correction late. Seventy eight we figured it was December. He been on the run the another one of his escapes for three months. This was in the land. Last month or so of his reign, because we figured out by comparing beard records. Investigators are amazing. The same. Will its figure out asked that the guy, which beard it looked like, which here

you know how much hair, and so that we figured it was december of seventy eight. He was caught in late january, the next year, two months later, when RON carlson and his partner were the back of the bentley and the drug dealer said, I'm cooper def bricks. Two months later now this is yeah. So this is why we believe tax fraud, the liberty to bring one wild card in our investigation- all we have is placing of there and a year later by the back of the bentley when I'm cooper a year later february, nineteen aid He is where the money was placed on the shore at the party. So this is not the first time. Briggs met rack straw regarding money, I'll give you know,

quick example, two years after the hijacking dip rigs middle man, they weren't drug dealers- yes briggs was just a local trafficker. He wasn't in the supply for cocaine from colombia yet, but he was supplying friends with stuff. One of his friends was another frat brother and they were roommates and they had house together as neighbours. Jim shell Jim shell is now part of the investigation of former middleman drug traffickers, known uncertainties, seventies. I believe this was his house, and one day he comes home from work is working for a loan company and his roommate dick Briggs is doing line the cocaine on his mother's table. I'll never forget any, has a buddy with his new boss, california, Robert Rex, and Jim shells that I'll never forget, rack straw. His eyes were like a linebacker. They never stop. Looking around all the time and then he said to me casually and you're not coming

What are these guys get off? My mom's table the kitchen table. You know this adapted. Just as I'm about to leave. I looked down and her extra has a huge gunnysack or money. So then I had to my room I said: wait a minute wait a minute! You talk about our coopers aspect after the jump coming up from california with the money to bring it to bricks. Now I've got a question for you. I know from my cops traffickers money that they used in exchange were krueger ants from south africa. At the time the illegal coins from the parties if the government were being used by traffickers. So I asked shell: did briggs use cougar acts like a drug, oh yeah, he wore a couple around his neck. Then we found two other witnesses and the next four or five years that had rack straw, paying off debts krueger it. We believe he brought that gunnysack up. We think the reason they didn't find

the db cooper money most of it. We think he brought up the gunnysack of money and said you know something like hey here's, one hundred and eighty thousand of the two hundred thousand. I give me back one hundred and sixty thousand in cash. You take in programmes. You take the rest down south America there not looking for him down there, that's where we think the money went. He's wandering the monastery, much right. That was seventy four now and seventy lay. Seventy eight on a driveway. Was that exchange that with The big deal about a year later at the party where he says if I am a little money on ashore and of course, that turned out to be real cooper money, what it run straw do he gets on an airplane after we're talking about after meeting with breaks, will act with breaks. He hit back

motorcycle the california he's living in orange county, California, with the getaway gal and another buddy. You hit him the first ivy escaped and living down an orange county on the beach working under it and other aid is using a phoney name is the supervisor of a construction project and fullerton California, where he happens to be working right across the street from the police station, and he supervising their building a senior citizens centre, and I've confirmed all this while he's there he goes over to apply shop any brings in for a pilot licence and medical certificate with the phony name and he wants a lot of duplicate will stamped on those things back then, a federal document you couldn't copy and donor or the printshop noticed it was a federal document that it cannot copy. He caught his neighborhood watch the police station across the street, and they were waiting for him with cuffs when he came back for his pretty. There was a dumb mister

ic and he was arrested, is brought back to face some trials. He tried to run out on, but the money was planted. He faced trials, he pled guilty and served so he fled know. The contest and stuff It was found guilty and some he got three years and two years concurrently, meaning there combined. He served one of two years. That said, why is imprisoned? one day on that shore. Suddenly the money is found in the fbi is with the couple that found it while the cook and hot dogs in them on a river. And the f b I says: well, it appears that cooper, probably ground. We can't prove it, but we believe that's why the money's here that's exactly what we believe rockstar wanted them. He he was a suspected in the cooper case. After these escapes the f b I had come down to enter They were suspecting, he might be. Some said he wasn't in seattle. It was a disagreement, but the minute the money was found, probably dead. Most of the

if the resources of the I went boot right up to portland start interviewing digging in rack, straw was cleared, he walked out a year later he decided hit the books he got a year. This degree at university of san Francisco. He went on to of the first online schools for a lot agree and a bonafide I agree, and he got what he got a international degree in business with us degrees. He became an arbitration expert. He became a professor at a you see university in California became headed the law department for two of his ten years. He retired and now he runs a little boat shop in san diego, we're nearby at a yacht club. He has a forty five foot cruiser pointing at mexico seven miles away in the name of the boat poverty sucks, I'm not making this up. Why do you think he went straight I

Think he's ever going straight. I think you know is some of my f b. I guys on the team said: look social pass, never could stop, but some of them become professors the way they put it. They said they either become lawyers or professors or, as some people say, president's at some great sociopath president teddy Roosevelt consider before it was called social about. You know, Andrew jackson, some people love them, some didn't. We don't have to go in current politics. but the bottom line is sociopath find their places. Sometimes in rack, straw became quite a professor and ahead of a department, but he's been in China and against all time, he's been involved with some schemes and involving the courts He never here, as is MR pointed out to us, he peed start businesses over and over and over construction. He wanted the construction field, he started several

businesses. He always came up with good ideas, but couldn't follow through that was according to one of his wives and his sister and business partners, but being a professor, worked out. He did it for ten years now. He runs a little shop. He still working using his talents with engines and so forth, but is a seventy. Three years old, we tried for a half year to get an interview. and we went in on it. Just like the article sadly said he was wrongly arrested, We approached him without minded said. Look we'd like to hear what it was like for you, because some we Instead, you are only. There must have been hard in your family. We want you to tell that story. Weena goes for half a year we came up with excuses, eyes it. Finally, after half a year, try- and we just realized- we were how to go down there and do some surveillance working abroad. It's about the guy guys they work for a week, study his patterns in his lifestyle.

then we had is what we call. The song all sit down when they were. I just pulled up in my car is a hollywood producer and said you and I've talked in the phone. I wanna talk to you and I we confronted him with it. We said we know who you are: god, doesn't it with your friends and business partners and for cried partners and die. You need a complete. He came very close to working with us. Building a contract. He sat on the side of my report or hired didn't believe, and he was right the next day he backed out and that day I had two camera crew standby with arms, the former with the surveillance team we confront it. We did a six it is confirmation that you can see some of those three or four

It's on line bottom line. Is this it's important, freer audience to understand. We prepared an investigative report is almost a hundred pages of this man's backroom, a timeline of his whole life with source information for everything we have maps and background and interviews that solid because of our the f b, I wouldn't, except that this we had approached them in two thousand and eleven they I said you don't have enough information with your whole river story. That's not enough to reopen this man's case, but we encourage you to go ahead. We're not going to stop you! Please go ahead and do your doc. mary. Well, that's what my wife and I just said. We want to do a mystery have a strong feeling with irish police department. We did and we send some more evidence to the fbi and they thanked us with each. What we got a letter from headquarters.

I we encourage you to keep sending us information so we're not a branch of law enforcement. We went under cover for three years and worked on our own and then pop backup- and that was in twenty fifteen. When the history channel and history channel went to the f b, I and said we're doing the history of cooper. They didn't want to tell the fbi, they had one particular suspect and they expanded to do that at ten cooper suspects if you've seen the documentary? There are a lot of different suspect, but it was real plea focused on our guy. We wanted to tell the whole history of cooper. That's why it was a four hour presentation. That's the way we pitched it to the fbi. One of their first questions was the same question when rack straw with the crochet history channel for another tried.

If he'd sit down, they both said the same thing is Tom colburn fault with us? I guess that's! The ultimate compliment where the f b I and the bad guy are both wondering if I bought and the fbi, I had no idea that we had one hundred and two pieces of evidence until we, finally let them know, and we wanted to meet with them and for six months the beating off and they finally on the final shooting day and in in April of Let's use twenty sixteen april, twenty, sixteen it near till July, but in April

it's the last day of shooting and that's when they said we are not going to look at this case because we are fearful. That is not the word they use. They said concerned, but by fb I said fearful and fearful that we could lose a circumstantial case. You don't have a parachute, you don't have the money, we're worried about old witnesses and bad corrupt and bad evidence, bad of forensics and we said you need to be with us. We create forensics in great witnessed tis, including two x wives and twelve relatives. Thummim we have this and they cancelled the meeting. They wouldn't meeting so since then, and after the documentary ended with the closing the file and archiving it putting it in washington in an archive facility. So right up, there to the readers of the lost arc. That's when we said we're gonna have to soon.

And so we did and ethel why a freedom of information act we went out said We demand the records. We want to know the file know what's important for your audience to know at the very end of the documentary they cited two things. Why rack straw wasn't here the first one when they said there's something in the folder that clear and we had a former f b, I guy who's, a liaison for the show, acting like an investigator and he said, look I know what it is, but I can't tell you you just have to accept all I can tell you is If you could place your guy on the plane what they have goes away, while my various part Fbi guy said. Well, that's one thing. First of all, their only three things that could be it could be another suspected. They said there is there's no other suspect. They admitted that it could be exculpatory evidence which means

in modern day a guy robbing a store whose caught a video couldn't have been raping a girl at the same time, because the video proves he elsewhere well that's exculpatory evidence and there was no exculpatory evidence on him either. That left one more thing in alibi and by him saying if you could place two on the plane. It stops the case that means he's elsewhere. Well, here's the problem with that to over one hundred and two piece of evidence are other alibis. He gave if at the same time, went to a police department and the other to his family and they're totally different from what they have My favorite is what he told the cops do after one of his vacation vacation, one of his escapes he was set out by the started: p d They know that the fbi had asked him. Are you d be cooper? He said I want my lawyer

so they turned around and they said what were you on november, twenty four seventy one and rack straw said with a straight face. I was it for Cronkite here in san francisco bay, the army base. In fact my commanders came to me when it happened, and so did you do that. while these cops quickly found out? He was in the army, based during the jump. He'd been out for four months kicked out so that one was blown away in the family when we verified with the true what he told his family. I was working for a real. We talk to every realistic company between seattle in Oregon over two week period that were in business. Then we ve tractor retired realtors, and the interesting thing about the seventies is all the realtors most of them were rolled were to pilots and what is behind their real estate, building a little ground

strip, so when they wanted to go look up at the waited in the northwest, they just come onto my plane where they borrowed one of their buddies planes. They didn't need a real estate service for flying pilots around it or flying routers around, so the fbi doesn't even know we had to whether real or alibis so that throws that out now the other thing they did really tina. This was the stewardess that sat next to him for four hours. I told you earlier. China has never spoken since her news conference. She became a cloister, none for almost a dozen you, worse after ah there's documented information that she had a breakdown in the late sub committees and then became a nun she's now fine, she has a normal life she's a councillor for other people with this issues, something she survived and in sheep

now doing wonderful service, but you won't talk when he tried to get her to talk and twenty fifteen for the documentary. No while others fbi liaison, whose working with the show goes up there and secretly and gets an interview set up by the fbi. With you. I told you about the sit down with the detective sergeant, who did a six pack of pictures for our college, Well, what does this f b? I lays idea with tina. He sits her down on camera and throat throws down for photos of our guy and says he recognizes guy and she looks at him shakes her head. I don't think so, and they can. We show you some video and again of our guy. I know this is totally would never be allowed in a court

you're supposed to show other suspects, they just throw one guy down. Yeah like the six pack. A up is very nice yard and she looks at the video of him and can be see footage. It says I don't think so. Ok, so this lays down tells us, at the end of the documentary there he's in rags draws not. It is because we have something in the folder that puts him elsewhere and tina says. He's not, If you can have a steward press he's obviously not well. I left that document I said look, and I you know- unless you told me what's in the folder and the f b, I need to look at our evidence. I'm going to stand with my guys. I got one hundred and two arrows pointing in one direction. I'm sorry guys and that's how it ended stalemate. What did I do

The research only took a week, and I found two f b. I agents in articles and in books who interview tina and, as I said earlier, trauma trauma memory loss and obviously we realized my gosh, the f b. I sat down some buddy who couldn't give a straight answer on our man. Why would they do that? In now we know it was an alibi. Why would they, if not make up a third alibi? I rely on a third alibi. He has my cops on the team said. No cop gives a bad guy three chances for an alibi. You have one chance yeah, so it's thrown out what they argued on television, some my cold case guys fbi guys said the number one rule, as some of my elder guy said: the war, the old number one rule of the the you don't do anything to embarrass the bureau. They said this door slammed, your investigation was politics, appearances.

You know I'm not a conspiracy guy, I'm a fat guy bud. be tell you. I haven't found anything to counter that argument. We, found new evidence. We know it's him. We have relatives, we even have a relative, looks. We ve been told, has a safe with information in the save the protects him they're waiting for his passing. These are things that we have heard and no we have had on. This estimated report when they passed on it. We ve had such compliments on this book because when we couldn't get him to look at this, this is what we made and that's that smith drama. What really released amazing at this about this book was the hardest thing I've ever had work on. There are forty seven pages of footnotes in here then spreading out of the investigative route.

Work in everybody who's looked at this book. We got the attorneys to look at this in the clear just like that got insurance for it. Documentary got insurance for it based on what's in this book, and they can't counter it. We have found your audience can go online and look up a record. draws. Nickname in vietnam was airborne bob. He uses an email, airborne bobby as facebook page with airport bob is very public grandpa eyes, you know, got six kids and I think forty grandkids down it's so cow and he's very public but which you will also find online. There are at least a dozen times we ve counted where he is please heading four attorneys to represent him to see what he's been threatening to sue for three years. So my question for yachting tat is: why hasn't he sued yeah? Why doesn't he sued? We'd love him too soon.

I hope he hears this we'd love to sit him down for a depot. Well, that was those are some of the questions that I kind of had when I was reading your book is, why hasn't the f b I closed the case. Obviously they think he's still alive. Why hasn't he sued? Why I mean there's so many questions here, one that I just was jotting down ass. I was reading a mosque world when I would stop talking right verbal degree. You know that there is, as I have problems with the fbi's reaction to this case- they're not going to close the case. So therefore, I believe that they know that db cooper is still alive. They won't clear

this man, but they won't they'll they'll clear him, but they won't close the case. So is there another suspect, apparently not it. It just doesn't add up for me the argument that my older guys had said that you know it's the ego at the up br. I can't have a bunch of guys come think about it, promote the latest never ever invited law enforcement in on a case they have task forces but they're, never there for the final, his cspi. Clearly always they solve things and look. I've got friends in the fbi. I love the appeal.

I just don't like the bad apples, and there are some bad apples involved in this. We believe and bottom line is that they always work alone, so that was the whole reason I stacked my cold case team of the forty members, twenty three or former fence, and got twelve f b. I two us attorneys a us marshal two heads of customs assistant director of the cia. I mean it's incredible that we have and then of course, nevermind that the those are the p eyes in the attorneys in the forensic experts. I brought them all in, so they be comfortable around their own. My wife and I really believe saw this as a potential for helping sir murders around the country. We looked at the skull case. Team is the first we were and a partner up with look the fbi and set up volunteer, colchis teams and

free state to deal with all these unsolved murders, because a terraces support to see what's going on around the country to see the EU law enforcement ending their camp. There's not enough tax dollars to stop the crime in the way you do it was with these armchair guys and girls out. There are willing to do this. Think of how this team could be multiplied into fifty teams to deal with the unsolved crimes. That was our hope, but here we are at this road block and the fbi. As one of my f b, I guys former fbi guy said Tom. Look at it. This way, number one stranger covenant saying we ve got to ecology, and we have a bigger task force than you could ever do, and we found one hundred and two pieces of evidence that put the fear of god. In that, oh, my gosh, you know they're going to find out. We can't solve these things, but he said more importantly, think about if there was a trial in a circle,

in the two case. We have a strong circumstantial case according to her us attorneys, but he said think about it. For a moment, half the country think he's a folk hero. All it takes is one of those bloke euros to be sitting on the jury and throw in the case, jury. Nullification that's what they're worried about is that somebody's gonna say no visa folk. Here I read about it since I was a kid heard. The trial, and with their fearful of circumstantial drop. That's not their job! That's the deal jays job to make that decision at the jury pool to make the decision at the system we have, it's not a no brainer. It's really a no brainer you to sit this guy down and say look plead guilty and they do this all the time I plead guilty. Will give you one year while we're waiting for your sentence. He plead guilty will

If you were home jail or whether you call it with their, you know the electronic bracelet on your leg Yeah particular bursts will do twenty years. Probation and you'll never have to buy a beer again, that's what I mean look he's on a pacemaker. He had a stroke, a knock at three months after We faced off with them in san diego, at a stroke and heart attack, and I was gonna pacemaker still remember anxious as ever. But my point is: are you really? gonna throw seventy three year old grandfather with a pacemaker into jail for twenty thirty years. Nobody was killed in that's true. He did cause amazing trauma and lifelong injury mentally to several people. But kids during what's going on with terrorist blowing up played around the world, you really think they're gonna make an example and throw away the key of the sky things we don't know. If the balmy had was real yeah read it look you treat it real. I know at the shape of a bomb a lot of people

I think there were road flip errors and I I truly do because he was using a wire in there and over you're not going to be monkeying with the wire in there, especially with the clothes he had his hand in there and when you jump or you can have a live bomb with you when you're, you know so yeah, but you treated as real proof felt. It was real and that's just that's the way it was, but so that the bottom line is, is that we don't expect the f b I to suddenly oh grow a spine and decide they're gonna have this circumstantial trial. This is. This is merely twenty first true story that we ve discovered for the bigger smells. a diver producer, parker stand by and were developing just in case a programme that we call the trial of tb took croup, try well, the db cooper where we he would have a tv judge. We would have our cultures to testify and we would have an actor

the rest are sitting in the chair with all those clippings. We got a rack straws trials. The only words it'll come out of them will be the words he used another trials and will have the greatest jury, the land that social media. We really think the public with love to vote on this matter. I like I said I am. I regional idea was mccoy, but if he's been cleared substantially by the fbi with an alibi not having been there but did not look ways: debt yeah guy, I watch it deserves I mean this, but but he is, he was never on the radar as far as the original line up of suspects in the in the folklore, so yeah I'm very long list. I can speak openly about this guy because of this, and I can tell you he was a wife beater. He was a deadbeat dad. Never peer wrote a check according to his first wife for his three kids.

Their lives, but he was a plaintive car thief. Cod artist check hider, I mean goes on and on and on, and we know, he's got jack I'll ended. This way money investigator in south carolina was enacted invested or brilliant. He found all the evidence he went through all or are or findings from the team, and he picked the one hundred and two piece of evidence, but he said to me: let me get this straight. have first of all he said on artists like this. A master criminal like this comes in north America. Maybe once every two or three years he says you are claiming a hundred mile area in the north west, there were three within a hundred miles of each of you, the rack straw, brilliant, kicked out with all these skill sets going up. The northwest. According to his family and the minute he's up there. Suddenly he vanishes and a man,

in normandy winner, a a turtle necked sport coat wearing gay man who, admittedly, was kay

is, is hanging around and he's brilliant he's a pilot. He says he has a plane to five of the fifteen people parked right out. There he's a brilliant con and a grifter, and then you got db cooper who appears when norman vanishes. So you got three guys oliver, who all of them with piloting skills all of them according to witnesses, looking alike in all of 'em when one vanishes, the other one pops up, you can't have three people that look alike with piloting skills than one hundred mile area and coming and going like whack a mole and it's impossible. It's one man, because when the cooper vanished norman vanished and rack, Sarah appeared and norman and cooper haven't been seen since rax robinho, I like to read just one little passage from your book that that stuck,

me, you said dan cooper, morphed back into normandy winter and used his inner rack straw to charm his way back onto mott's couch, and I thought that was I mean I I realize it's not the whole case, but that was to me the embodiment of all the identities this man had and we haven't talked about the other activities. He's he's had many identities, I mean the air is one that there is a full of those float around on. Why apparently racks draw set it to somebody who thought was his girlfriend and that girlfriend and turned out to be a cat fisher man and he said, are a picture of him dressed as a lieutenant colonel with thirteen fake metals on well with that pick reset it to his former lieutenant colonel. And he looked at me- pointed out all the phoney units he was claiming the spawning.

does and that photo is in the master bedroom of his yacht above his bed. Now we have it because it's on the web, that is the lieutenant colonel khan, his head. I will share with you one of the other things that came to us and this again will be in the updated book. We get an email from a guy who says I am an I t guy and I went to a business meeting in orange county in California. Remember extra lived there How can the seventies and that's generally the area where he lived for the last twenty years there at san diego? Ah he said I went to a business meeting at a restaurant that is known to cater specifically to the world's greatest pilots. They ve got world where one The world were to pilot pictures on the while they had astronauts, they blew angels whenever the famous aviators come to tell this is where the eat and I walked in on this bit. This meeting was ever software program with my boss.

My boss says we're about to be in a meeting. How would you like to meet db cooper and he says ok, so we go to this big table and he says Sitting at the head of the table is barbaric straw. I asked about what what are you cooper he does. I could be just like he did on a b c I could be. I might be in orbit around and going like this when I tracked down on that restaurant closed last year, so I tracked down the owners and anxieties world. let it be known that it was open from the vietnam air all away to last year and I all men. I sort of general talked about his restaurant in its reputation one point is hired. You had blue angels coming an astronaut, even our joanna cooper, suspect clarity

he goes yeah yeah, I said: do you think it was? He goes absolutely, and I said how often did he come in there? He said Tom. He knew every item on the menu pilots don't tell secrets they cover for each other at this, where he in it. He lived nearby for twenty five years, and this was his you might say his throne, safe base after the whole thing goes down. Doesn't racks dropped, get on assess now in calling my key fake pigs, his own death, one of his it get apes during these trials he went to IRAN and one escape and wound up teaching in the last year of sharp. Seventy nine is their teaching the shaw's pilots to file a captors for thee up an american helicopter company hires. What he's fleetingly charges

and he a fake identity, of course, and everything he's working there ernie's finally brought back while the next escape is just eight months later and he's out on bail. He beats a charge and he's waiting for his next charges and ease made a major my planes fire. He has a rebel play is going down off monterey bay, which is top of santa cruz south of san francisco boy. Three coastguard vessels five fighter jets go looking they'll find anywhere and that's what he vanished for four months, and that was the period when we believe If you took up that fifty eight hundred dollars to dick bricks on a motorcycle, that's when it happened in that five month period, we talked about the four let and there were being float around. I told you we that we believe you had stolen a plain after being kicked out of the military use it to travellers normandy winter, and

stevie corporate had home. The reason we believe that theory is about two years it's a little less than two years after the job. He has brought a new wife courting her any takes her to a hanger in palo alto took the california. Witches saw the san francisco. He unlocks it and shows her his own cessna well relative protesting about that we befriended that wife and she said he has assassinated two choppers and he had an aviation service. He'd fly people up the pebble, beach golf course celebrities and others for a few years. One of the six businesses he had in his head told me about that plane. It was a small plane, we'd fly to tahoe and elsewhere, and he bragged about it being his will. We checked in with the f e a he never registered any aircraft or any licenses for a plane.

We believe that fits our whole theory of the stolen plane and we believe that was db, cooper's plane and that was the whole fake, his death. So people would forget about them and then he reappears later kind of cover up there again. It was just that another tie in that I've. I feel really dictates who this man was and what he was capable of. But I I won't keep you all night, but I

I just want everyone to go out in and read this book if, if you're, even remotely db cooper fan anything this this book is to me it's it's a whole other level of just investigation into one suspect, and it's something that you don't get with any of the other suspects with db cooper. You get their names, you get a little fifteen second anecdote about why they would be db cooper, how they could be db cooper, but this this really paints a picture of a man that absolutely had the the know. How and the motive, in the background, be just everything about him fits the profile of what I would suspect db cooper to be. I appreciate that justin bottom line is: is that you're right all the other carol

I don't want to say, they're one dimensional, but maybe three dimensional. This man is three d all the way and he is so sophisticated in this. Let's face it. This is a sophisticated car and I really don't see other people rising up to this level. I've had a lot of people pitch other people to me after they heard about my guys say. But what about this guy? What about that guy? And I just you know, I basically tone in god, less I really think this is the guy and now I know it guy, and I say to your audience that the biggest question is: why hasn't he suit us? Why has it yeah. But I stopped me from speak they should go online and look at the first two hundred pages of the fbi file through sobers, seventy thousand pages coming most of it. The upper the f b I website eventually, but if they wanted early, look at the first two hundred pages of the investigation all sorts of setbacks, it's up on our website, but they will love this book and

before they buy it. I suggest they go up and just read theirs. for sixty five star reviews up there I will tell you this directs drop out. What book at europe he only gave it a one star review and if they go up there under negative reviews, they can read his review very funny, saying: oh, it's innuendo. through this that, but he read the book at that. that I guess that's the ultimate comparable with the bad guys biogas old book from you, but they should need some of the sixty summer, five stars- and it's not a compliment to me- this is about- is the with a wheeler justice we ve created. All these wonderful people involved is incredible. The greatest called casein ever put together. It's about the six women who gave him up. There are heroes. I mean they were the ones that step

up and told the story- and you know frankly, on the messenger of this wonderful group of people, the elderly, Compliments compliment to those people is yes by their work, learn history and read about one of the last great outlook was an eventually he'll learn, if not admitted it will come out.

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