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Its gerald, so please introduce yourself hello, Erin, first of all, a great honour to be on the show like As you know, I'm a huge fan, my name is count, that's gerald and I am a musician and I guess, pod castor? I live in new york city and I am really happy to be on the shell. Take you for asking me: the reason. I think that we started talking by having you on is because of the nature of your show. do alive. You cover paranormal subjects, so I thought man, when a covers and parent almost half again who better to have on then some You who, I think here your problem, while just ask very similar to myself in that year. Much interested in apparent almost stuff, although your kind of a sceptic Oh yeah, yeah yeah. So, just for a lot of of people, I dont know about the by gas, but it is, is a comedy podcast, but centred around paranormal.

If it's called cosmic cast off, but yeah I mean I love those old like george snorri or actually are bell. Like the girls. Others like. I listened every parallel progress. There is, I dont believe much of it, but I loved the subject. I love a mercy myself, you know it's only. It was agreed for. I do like a scripted comedy part gas, which is what it is yeah, I mean it's like a fun waiter kind of approach that material, but its very absurd we could use some of that. I know that you know still is not about. I've got the old episodes. I've got the one said he did for serious right, yeah. Well, when I took my theme song from that as soon as he went up the era sort of the podcast and I'm like well he's not going to need it anymore. grapevine and of he signed that non compete thing in that's about to be up this year. I do believe and he says he'll be back again Hopefully this time he learned his lesson because

yeah. I don't know that. I agree with everything he says that man, I think he's he might be. My favorite person ever speak on a mike on a radio programme there's is a reason why so popular in its now, because of its know, how you he's got a great voice, but did you hear the reason why he laughed, though Oh, you mean originally. The the matters show both for the sake of the listeners. Might you say, so he was upset because you didn't think that the phone connections were good enough or that he didn't trust the wifi connections and that's what it was. It was the wifi speed he he said he kept on getting complaints at the sound quality, wasn't good enough but like if you listen, a serious, it's like pretty pristina that they got it down with science, so I'm not really sure, but he was very upset over the fact that he gets when it complains that did. The sound wasn't gonna. So I dunno was where he was coming out without one well he's complaining for years about the sound like if someone calls the show like back on coastal,

stand with our bell. calling on a cell phone and he would luckily say where will lie beyond he didn't like these poor connections. Actually I've I've heard about four or five of the after dark episodes. Now found the sound to be pretty damn good minor. They used to be yet How do I did my be as it might be? His ears are going not so much dia technology and serious yeah. I know if anyone understand this, but there's a musician out their name, Al Jorgensen and he sings amber ministry and if you listen to any of his past side or no six albums or so you can tell, hearings going because there's no base based on the news I can, if because swell. I dont know that he notices that it's not there or he's there's theirs. The reason he just can't hear, while I was just in posted at metallica album without the base restore that lars our academy.

From and justice for all, I have yet to hear that. Actually, I need to hear that it's pretty cool. They should do that for ministry. I guess I would be very interested to hear what that would be like if they had the base in it. But I don't know that was other they ever there to begin with. That's the funny thing but speed of our policy, our bells important, because for ever since I was a ninety ninety three. When my interest in the paranormal jumped again, because when I was when I was just a young kid, my favorite show on the planet was search of, I was gonna say in search of yes, I was imagining that show. I loved it damn inside why's that religiously and then, of course, in eighty ninety three, I started working a job where I had to drive early early mornings. I was out at four something in the morning and I would start catching. The show coast to coast am with art bell and he was talking about flying saucers and ghosts either

those does electronic voice phenomena recordings and just anything, blacked out crazy. I'd strange anything that I sort of phrase it as anything that keeps your interest in this world beyond while another mundane day of wonder daddy, the sense of wonder again. He you know for a second you're caught out like the area, fifty one guy who calls our balinese like I'm calling from area fifty one and they want to shut me down and I'm trying to get this info out. It's like fascinating, and then, when you reflect on your liking, it has probably not true, but it was fun It still riveting call from a guy in a plan. Here, it's very fast. In that time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can see where people are coming from when I people, even some of our listeners. Sending me a message saying Oh, my god, I love the warrants because They are the the the modern representation

The ghost story you have How did you like if you do just took down the line? these stories are classic, I mean all possibility aside. They are stories that are becoming part of like the kind of folk lore of our country, another during gray, everyone knows about the amman. the horror there, like you, know, becoming like folk tales, almost galliard they become the face of it, and it's interesting as part of my research. I listen to many interviews with Lorraine Warren. She the one of the two: that's that's surviving and chill Your unease, paranormal pod, casts with Will that actually, you know investigate, haunted houses and they ll, say well I was in belgium investing in a house right now and we found that it might be this and shall actually respond and say. Well, that's very unlikely, sir.

is you know, she's very outspoken, and she feels that she has a complete grasp on this on. Paranormal says she is the go to person if you ever of any questions, She's the expert she's, the one that you need to consult with yeah. I think it go through some of these cases. That will definitely be a thing that repeated recurring they'd her an ad both seem to have an answer for everything. So let's do this. Go back to where this all begins and the rain they meet. some point rights out little go into a little bit of maybe the dry background here about about that. without an option when I mean maybe ok so like and is the son of a cop adler. At Warren son of a cop born in the twenties nineteen. Twenty six.

You know he group and a haunted house. That's part of his background it. He talks about a lot of interviews that he grew up in his haunted house and his dad, who you know as a principle the officer was logical thinking, man, can said yes, it's not a haunting. There's gotta, be a logical explanation I think that really shaped him, but he always believed that you know he heard footsteps in that and that type of thing and and also you look at lorraine. She she's bore. She was just a year younger than him, also borne in bridgeport, connecticut same spot She caught, I had some some early instances where she she recognize it. Maybe she had some kind of paranormal sensitivity, he could see oranges and stuff, for she met. Add she had had in others. Experience would sing or us she considers over a trance medium. I guess they said so they both color, before they even met had their own separate experiences with what they

Consider like a sensitivity, the paranormal or they know at witnessed paranormal happenings makes sense, because when you look this It seems like first things you'll hear about is that they used to drive around and edward drab. He would paint pictures of houses with go coming out of them and then it seldom to homeowners. Well, that's that's kind of the introduction. I think it's important that you said that because I feel like so he went school, illogical. the navy and everything in and so he did he. I had experience as an artist and it was kind of like an idiot anything that he started selling these paintings of appointed houses like you said, and I feel like that- they got into the whole ghost hunting business right. They were selling the repainting houses and then they eventually investigated one yeah. I think that we're kicks off they, the think they solidified their relationship because of their mutual interest in the paranormal,

and then eventually yes, invest debating one because of their interest, I think they realize That was what they were meant to do another safe to say I mean I don't want to get too mild down in their whole background, but it seemed to say that I mean Lorraine herself, said she was from a sheltered life. you know she really looked up to her brothers and father rate. I think, should a couple brothers but she always said that it was the first man when pressed her that wasn't her father or brother. So I think it's important to know in ways that diesel fight each other's kind of action in this and when you look at lorraine and how she, you know, grew up sheltered turn private school and in the first kind of guy that she really felt lived up to expectations, and it was also into this stuff. So I think it makes a lot of sunset them coming together, really did kind of manifest their interests even greater than it might have existed before

I think you're just being around each other. It magnified all of this and it became a focal we now have for their relationship for their careers so low. and says that she doesn't know doesnt recall very first haunting, they investigated so weakened eddie much start anywhere. Some of the audience will know at least a handful of their cases and It is because They tried for years, but just in the last ten years or so, they ve had more success. Getting their stories out through hollywood very interesting to watch. How. They come in, and out of vulgar in other programmes The power of the spotlight for a while now yeah, like you, said, like the conjuring annabel, are very just stupor huge. your blog post, your movies, and there definitely, Maybe even at the height of their career, I dunno, if you can top amityville but they're, getting close

think in the amount of their output. Now There was one single story that now a bunch of stories that have come out. You know many years later, sure and an inner according to their website, you go. There live investigated thousand I think they said like over ten thousand cases. So really we could just pick any of those right, Erin that's interesting, because I dont know that there is a way to count all the cases that they ve investigated yet seems you can find information about. Maybe ten the best I can was about ten, I think I'll after that. I couldn't really find any more. wonder if they could even explain this that perhaps even if you say ten thousand cases how many of those turned out to be nothing at all because They just said how many they investigated they didn't. They weave had ten thousand true hauntings that we ve, we discovered that we very fine. They just say it. They ve been investigated that many cases

Well, yeah. I mean you're not going to find them on record anywhere saying even when they are, they ask him about the movies and the factual nature, there'll be like evasive or lorraine, mostly, as is who I'm referring to, because she's feel the questions they won't say like oh yeah, this in the movie This inevitably like it's. It's pretty accurate tourism artists licence, but I mean You don't hear them any of us cases or the instances where it's been embellished or maybe not truthful. You just gotta here, successes there is film that came out that they were supposedly there their names are attached to it. They didn't you, a kind of it and so that's one that she's pretty heated about and I've I her, I listen to an interview with her and she got a little angry about it, and said that they had nothing to do with it, and so it's not a true representation of the case. What this case you're talking about right now, which one was was that they the. If

mistaken, it's the haunting in connecticut. that's the one that they are. They felt that they were cheated on they followed, miss represented in the hunting in connecticut wages interesting, because that's the case that keep them of falsifying facts on re. That's the same case where could be enough. cases. Regarding also disown the book. use the co author of that book, but that's it! It's a dark places. The book right in a dark place, one loudest critics. He could say of the warrants this horror, author, re garden, let let's about what the hunting in connecticut cases about and then we'll talk about how regarding comes into the story, family, the campbells. According to the film- of course, they move into a house

that's a former mortuary, a former funeral home and according to Sarah They didn't know that it was a former funeral home right, that's part of the, see there that day they moved it that all these things are happening and they had no idea that it was even now To be a place where dead bodies were a, saying the candles. That's based on the movie wicked but back and forth between. suppose, it real life and the film, because there's the question here the actual woman that live there. Her name is carmen, and She says that she didn't know that it was a former funeral home. Waste they move into this house and well, it's haunted more, so they say one of the sons hebrew

the basement, and Everyone else chooses room elsewhere, but the key here I believe as the basement, because Matt moves The basement, and of course, I'm just gonna use the disease than the movie names here. so he moves into the basic. But he finds this door and he almost get this idea that by breaching the door that the spirits get let out which is a common theme in some of these kids the warren cases, its common, that there's like some kind of gateway or opening to the other world. Yeah when you, whenever you hear them talk about Findings there. There are all these different categories. You can put things in whether it saw spirit, manipulating an object or something's actually possessed what condition as things can happen under by it this case supposedly because this door gets openness,

serious door right. And so he starts seeing very strange things you start seeing others some really grotesque, Details of the story now doesn't when is. Some revealing on Sunday. But to find any evidence of like their claims that the funeral home you know had. these are the there was like neck romancers that used to tolerate reason, there and necrophilia- and things like that, like that, was all part of work im out during the investigations, but as any that truth, could they prove any of that for what I tried to do, as if I can't get specific information on some of the stuff? I look up what I can find right, so we built the go by what carmen says carmen At a she said is that she was never informed about the house being used as a funeral home again. She can't get away with

Playing this by saying that she'd never gone into the basement, because she said they were materials and things blocking the stairway right right. So she only discovered the truth. After they had moved in when they had. You clearly reign over the house right and across something that tells a little bit of a different story as far as what they knew. Well, there's different ways to look at it. You can go by what the former owner says. Worrying go by with a real ter says both claim that this matter we were informed of of the truth about it place before they ever agree to purchase it could soon for that right, mason, genuine, so them due to not speak about what had been used for prior because, let's face it, there people that you know it's like This is like saying, oh yeah, as the house. It's great everything and meanwhile you dont tell em and you don't let him down there that in the basement, thereabout twenty vipers! Well,

one of the people moving in might be deathly, afraid of snakes. You can bet they're going to want to sue you for not disclosing that there are twenty vipers in the basement. The same thing yeah or someone moves in the community and the house was, you know, involved in vienna counting on torrent or a murderer, and you dont tell them and they may be shown by the community. That may not have anybody complex come over, I mean is it said the things that you could you be claimed? Doubly have an effect in your life. Had there not disclosed the amateur fact, our future market value etc. So these things happen, disclosed so right there from the beginning. you could say that carmen is already in bad shape as a good witness. So you know if you go through the claims that are made in a story which there pretty insane some of the things that are claimed here that happen in this. Home. It defies reason do, you think a phenomenon that defies explanation might have some do with the fact that a whore

fiction writer, was brought on to help chronicle the case. Yeah? This is another clue I would say, because if you're going to The story, why not just bring in a writer but seems like every time they want to write a book about one of these cases. They bring in a horror writer the reason why this is interesting is because its number one consistent across the board and Or do we know, about a person named ray garton back in high school. I used to read a horror book just about every day I mean I was a voracious reader, and so I did read a few ray garton books and yeah totally. He has some interesting take son. What makes horror whore But anyway was re garden said, that he spoke with add because he interviewed family members and He found them to be very inconsistent.

And so he was, he went to add and said. Can you help me put this together because I talked to carmen and I talked to and he went down the line, different people he spoke with an ad got a little perturbed from what stand and you said just make it up, make it scary. you're a horror. Writer he's been very vocal about that he is basically separated himself from any of the claims of true story with the case he's publicly many times but how the EU was coached, the garden, is explore. Said in his lack of want to call lisbon is way like I don't know how much re garden would really believe in this stuff. I dont think that he signed on this. In terms of saying, oh yea, I believe in ghosts. I can't wait to write about this. I think he took it on as a job, but I thought he said yeah yeah,

I mean he said that he came and with an open mind and was you know, a little sceptical, but definitely ready them in the way he described that he was totally ready. open mind too to believe their stories, but that it do you know it's it's from the get go disturbing most, as was ad and so, when you told me to make stuff up and down, ruins it for him, because he, and from all these believe what they saw. They believe that it seem like their son was To meet almost its like, their son was possessed her. Something enables b mean dangerous These spirits, ruby, I very malevolent there, but when he's told just make it up and he didn't good interviews out of the people that have actually been there and experienced this stuff. Then you I to wonder like am, I you're too just write a book from scratch, because if so, I know he's probably thinking I heard from my own story from scratch:

The bother with all this without those wooden things, and you say that you didn't have a lot of access to interviewing people. He didn't interview the sun, he when she was. Never he never saw the inside of the house. So if you I mean you can stop right there and bill you know. That alone is very telling the house, you never saw and he never interviewed the sun. I mean that's that's where the all the story takes place. So you know the fact that they kept him compartmentalized, and in it it's all, it's all fishy. Just corroborated by his experience. I mean I think, it's pretty clear that they are up to no good in our house. I mean it's very hard to find a new credibility. If you just want to take this case alone, the warns and general it's it's very fishy and freedom points, to hawks explicitly, in my opinion, You have to wonder if such

horrible things are happening there them. Why did they stay around for so long to the boy. You can't be hard to sell, because apparently the real estate agent isn't disclosing what it used to be so happy the thing I knew you ask of course right, but now It's just that they stuck around for so long distance, make any sense to me the inner words. I think you know we start with this case bit. Case, isn't helping their case. You know what, when end lorraine say that their there, the expert on the paranormal this cases in helping them not me, opinion I mean, I know, be glossed over stuff, but when you get in the deception by carmen its. it is ruins it and then, of course, and then you have Ed telling the author just make it up and have the family staying there. well beyond reasonable doubt as I'm, if there actually experiencing

but they say they experience there. I don't I dont understand it? I dont get it here. I mean a pizza, pretty clear picture. others there's really, even even if you wanna, if you even if you are a believer in you, really want to see you now, the validity, and in these claims it does very little old onto a lot to suggest, as is Very little basis in reality, the entire case lets me air about this. Let's just say that that stuff happened in this house. That's that's kind of kind of Over some of this stuff that had happened in this house this, is mad in the film in real life, it's philip and He becomes very withdrawn, and gets into deem analogy, which you think I would not have a problem with. since he's a demon, apologist, em

he expresses an interest in killing a step farther enemies claims that she was fond old on occasion as she was lying in her bed and there, The odd thing about this is there's a lot of sexual attacks that have been on the mother, carmen, or so She says she actually at one point is attacked, behind I'll, say actually fleas the house and is still being attacked as she runs sexually I don't know anybody takes that. I don't know how you continue to be, I suppose spiriting things possible right. Well, the way I look at it as this is like things that a ghost might be interested in, I really can't can't see a ghost with a strong sense of libido. So when I hear these type of like a ghost gropings, I immediately think there might be something psychological play. Just because I mean look at that in light of her, but would you was a ghost care.

They really have like sexual needs. A mean that to me, if you the suspenders believe I For me, it ends there. I don't t get up most goes to the bathroom, and I don't think that there out following people, either hell it's good. Their night they're. Not in going. I mean here, I'm in the bathroom, wait your turn yeah- I don't I Don'T- I just don't see them having. You know that any kind of like earthly needs. Like that, I mean what What body do you really have a libido? Are you really out? You know groping in the middle of the night. I just don't see it. It seems very far fetched, even if you're In accepting the ghost hypothesis. So there are some odd things happening on, Flee there's, no, proof of any of this and that their case. I know that says something that's debated amongst paranormal believers because well I guess they. I should They they defended that

not evidence of this tale. Defend that I don't. I don't know how they do that, but they do but moving on did. This is where There are people come forward, have actually said that carmen admitted see what going to make money from this case because the red and lorraine Warren and YAP people. They said that they would make a ton of money if they just one along with it. That's that's a common thread. Happen through a lot of these cases. You wonder out there but what did they have to gain by saying this They are merely go even talking about re garton, I mean, like you, said to be too, we fair and in you know balanced about this. It's one adversity other you now the warns may say this. Someone like rigour, Who come? Who claims to Two other are authors who have similar stories like you know he eat This is pretty common, but just on the surface of you, wanna go it's a. He said they said thing. he comes out more credible.

In a lot of these cases of people who Oppose them in opinion, use comes across as more credible than they do? Well, because you follow the money and ray garden has problem, saying down by the book. Anyone he be better off, saying, oh by the book, so he can get deal. Maybe one See here, why does he care so much? I mean, even if it is even if it's us, based on a true story. Most of us do cannot understand that do not take it with a green of solid by e feels very stronger, ease, emphatic. You know I think it does say a lot. One of the other things they point out with carmen is that her stories change over time, so shall say, This happened, or that happened, and and keep her stories straight. Ray garden he's especially outspoken on this, and I think

I think he would have been happy to have this book out there and to promote it if he felt they actually believed. Third, certain things were happening and that This is just a way of dealing with it. since he felt fraud the whole thing aegis authority must be part of it. You know he saw someone who needed help to the son. I think one of the quotes said it was the ad told them that these people are nuts and just go with it and that's how Make the money, if you believe regarding its very scathing, what he has say about the the warrants, When will you when I first spoke about this, as we kind of had this question of do the rain get involved because they actually care or it just money thing like we're. They going with this, because if you listen interviews, they seem very passionate about the paranormal, but There could be easily faked. This could just be a man generator for them

and so this is actually the. I guess the reason why I want to bring up this case, even though it's I mean I honestly have a hard time or even recounting some of it's so over the top. But there is something here that I think points The direction of this is probably there, probably just frauds and they're just making money which you know. If you want to make money, that's fine, but it can be dangerous. What they do. who can either be dangerous to these families because Your covering it out there saying there's a spirit at work here and one of the thing that's come out about this case- is that philip may I've been here, been the one abusing the niece yeah, Just written a story, you know and serve as he read, he read the accounts of of abuse and if it does seem to be like its covering up the truth, like the dark truth behind a little

and that's why I said I was kind of absurd to to suggest that there is some goes out their groping, I mean, but it doesn't sound like a very dysfunctional family. Sk using a boring behaviour with an outlandish explanation, your point about about the warrens and how we know you this deep down, there is money making thing when I and and in how'd. You like we spoke before you and I I told you I, when I came into this thinking, that there were a cue old couple who thought they were. You know saying goes, but were generally harmless, and I I can honestly say coming out of some of the coming like the researcher like I just don't see it that way anymore. It seems like a very deliberate attempt to defraud people. Ok I mean it's, it's it's. It's not innocent at all. In my opinion,. Yeah we might save the big case for, alas, where you can point to

how dangerous what they do might be yeah. I know exactly it hominids for sure they're, the united. It should be. said that their snickers actually had upstairs neighbor, who didn't buy any of this and for you could say whether or not you know not making money off of it right now. They say that they have never experienced anything odd. and there in the same place yet means one does a ghost like you know, adhere to privacy programme amounting this family only there there's family alone here and now that's a scratch, the surface of inconsistency and illogical table. Here, you now. Yeah, that's an interesting thing that water will be touching on throughout, but it's the whole question of

I might say: well, science can verify this stuff, because its outside of our understanding. but that the whole trouble is. We use science to verify things and if we can't verify them then maybe they're, not true what's funny you used the word science, because I mean right in their name been other than what is it psychical research so isn't a research. There is no scientific research, I mean they think across his other doing some when it when they put research into the name. Other organization, I think I'll go. They ve got a method here, in others, some scientific data there's some kind of like legit process processor validating these claims, but not at all.

Yeah just depends. Lorraine is fond of saying that she can psychically pick up information when she entered the place or she might gather information from dreams like dream states or she's also been known to go and dig up records to find out more about the property. history, that's the research. Lorraine is fond of saying that the most guess you could say, haunted item that they have is a doll. So let's talk about Annabel yummy. croupier than a doll you now hunted down. Everyone loves this case. if you go to their website, you know that is about. The warrants is interesting and its deadly in the case of Annabel. There's no there's no book about Annabel kind of the accounts you get, much directly out of their miles right, so you found yet the people have written about this case because they have talked so much

it so there very actually is sam For me, it was actually easier information to take in that. Somebody's other cases, perhaps because they got involved within a certain the time of this all called me. Now, happening, and then, As we know, Lorraine ends up taking the doll but its it kind of kicks off about a year before and the rain. Then something happens with the style right. Might suggest a go over. My understanding is that there is a college student, Donna rae and she gets the gift us down from her mother cracked. Yet or get it from an antique shop. Is that correct? Something like that? That's that's that That's what I heard too, and I find it interesting that first Allow me now to the debate, so quickly, but I don't know how many college students generally get gifts, the dow from their mom, but I think right off the bat, or a kind of reach,

have a campaign, a campfire tail but just me, let's give it some time here right, let's see it, let's see what the details are of this of this case So initially and in many trees a bag is interesting that I think it was one of their friends lou. Who was the first one to counter start giving accounts of the bad he was getting to the dow. He was telling the to college girls and, if you've seen that, have you seen the countering they they do. Some of the story very well, but they leave. The breath who, basically, I think, if you go back here, x, it all off. he starts on the girls. Are they should get rid of the dow? These he's bad vibes about it? This is my understanding and really do it ghost story begins when he claims he wakes up in the dollars. On top of him. Is that right, yeah it's in the dark almost like floats up on him. Legs in up over on is there and

and we can talk about this a little bit later. But that sounds a little like sleep browsers to me, but we can. I mean logic, explanations. Aside, a kind of all starts there with the boyfriend. Where are the the the male friend who's asleep on the couch? It seems like he's kind of the catalyst for some of the paranormal aspect of the style up until that it didn't seem like it was really affecting them too much, yeah. If you listen to LA, she makes it sound like the the women have been around this thou retreating, it almost like a child and then This guy comes long lou. he's afraid of it because he's having well he's having learned- probably dreams about the doll and- and he actually starts to get angry with the doll And meanwhile, people have said that the doll changes position you can set it a certain way and when you come back its changed as it moved, but

I guess he challenges the doll and that's where the spirit that's involved here, get angry they bring in a medium a medium comes in kind of investigate and give them in what might be going on and another sort. That's where the whole Annabel name comes from right. If a medium, the picks up the story. comes the house starts. No kind of asking questions and reveals that she's got the impression that the door is actually the ghost of a girl, Annabel. So the initially the that the story that they get from a medium is that it's a ghost a ghost of a young girl who, I guess daily in the house. The story changes when the warns involved right

yeah again, I get the sense that when they get around other paranormal experts that they like to throw their weight around and correct those other people, and any got to really compelling stories that come from the same, invest our the same phenomenon in here. We have a medium whose has this whole back story about this, well cared for, and then they come and they say no, its, not annabel. It's a demon pretty common in their investigations right the whole idea of demons. I mean they are the monologist to be fair. Ad said, these states that he's a demon ecologist, he makes it quite here that this not a little girl The warren seem to think that its spirit manipulating the doll, ray, it's an actual possession, it's just being moved around by this evil entity I'll tell you about them, because that's a common claim in there in their work. Do I just fine? really fascinating, that aid

cut the name Annabel, even though that was supposedly the name that was incorrectly attributed to the door, to the spirit. But we could give em for that comment, because you know quite often we see just like in the db cooper case, you know, there's a certain name that attaches itself to an event or to a situation- and it becomes the popular name so well correct. Incorrect, even if a sign the ball park, it can be attached and then its did sticks sure yeah. Then you have to grant you know about that's a pretty good name. I guess. they also some of the things about this doubt that that would he read it. the case that struck me one the stories that there are obviously lorraine and add, took it back to their little museum of of paranormal objects right now. Sides in there and there are in their museum, right. It's actually in a case, but we

I mention that something happens. This isn't a simple case of the doll moves on its own view. You know this characters having these bad dreams and thank you. Something happens area familiar with what happens. There is a deadly com, whence that's With some claw marks. Lou being attacked the targets cost it gets thrown into a corner, who goes in alone to this room and looks over it but he says that he feels like there's something behind him and he turns around anymore. lee grabs his chest and yells e double Over, like you, bends over anything and bleeding all of a sudden. On his shirt right. Seven claw marks yeah. So there's three vertical ones for horizontal marks and

Thirdly, we are because they say the marks actually look like their will. describes it that it feels like their burns. The boat. When I know that both cuts can do, that they can feel like burns, but The key here is that they say that, through their gone the day after they appear so they they he'll quickly. and of course is what happens in all their stories. You, a priest, is brought in. Yeah. I mean to me just that something you seen a lot of these girls hunting that alison somebody begin outbreaks spontaneous scratches, and I mean even learn pretty easily that if you get you're now just right dragged across it can look pretty bad for about a day. You can gives you the right way. I did you that day isn't there were like these days clamour. the disappear the next day. I just reminds me of like when I was a kid now it just kind of like make a little I got my arm and would swell up until the next day, it'll be gone,

that I mean it's any view a lot about these goals. Cases like that's, not an uncommon thing to happen, and I think it's kind of like we want to win, rustlers hide a razor blade under their had banned You know it's a gardener spoiler without that to me is like it's a similar thing. It's like a little trick. You can do and it can be like a man, it's just you spontaneously, because you know it does take over a couple minutes for those marks to become visible after you doom anyway, when there The I don't I don't give that much credence personally and we're all the pictures of this you know. Yet the question we don't know if it actually happened or not That's it that's another recurring thing: I'm in these geysers dear me, home museum devoted to haunted artifacts like, whereas their archive of proof I mean they have investigated. Ten thousand cases you think did what a camera and get at least there's a photograph of these wounds. I don't know what good it would have done, but at least we have some documentation. I mean what we say

is a ghost story for ten. Some purposes is not allowed to support these clams and and for being such like accomplice, demon, ecologists and in our goes hunters, and all that to you, They recyclers researchers right, I mean research produces data maybe not conclusions, maybe not prove, but at least there should be a wealth of data to allies. Yeah look get to the museum in a bad bad here when you Get these these cases as their laid out on the internet, whether it's their side or other places. You look at the Annabel case and you may see a picture of annabel and So this thing that was choking this man is actually just a fabric down, it's a large. I'll bet. It's just that It's very soft and is raggedy ann down a very light one now

the movie. It's it's just a plain all rag, raggedy ann. Now Its face. Looks like it's drawn on but they say, there's a deadly consequence to this case. are you aware of what happens: yeah, ok, so I didn't know you had your hinting at that. I love this story because, no matter how much I try, I cannot find single. To corroborate it, but you have a legend, is even the gates of this. If the object is so so cursed so evil that you can you even acknowledging enter or anything is is potentially doubly. So, let's put it in a glass case in charge admission, but ok, so this they have the day you know you'll hear repeated over and over as data this young Never do well came to their museum the taunt annabel with his girlfriend.

and he dies and a horrific girl motorcycle action on the way home. Daphne that's what I said and you know if you hear from ads ads account. The girl, the lasting she remembers before they crashed I'll shoot. The girlfriends on the back of the motorcycle lasting she remembers. Is them talking about Annabel an end king, her as and the next thing you know that the money go crashes into a tree and he's dead. Now, there's a lot about this account that, that makes you wonder. First of all there is, you cannot find anything about a real doubt related, I mean No names are mentioned by him that I could. But did you find anything to two to corroborate this at all? No, I didn't find anything I think that's, the key is an ad in the rain, actually provide their own data.

What it is is they they take their raggedy, Andy doll with them and their car starts to experience issues. it starts to stall out and the car just stops working here and there and keep restarting it and trying to drive again and after the third pursuit of this ed whose his catholic, reaches into his bag and he gets out his file of holy water eddies wrinkles it on the rag doll and he's making the sign of the cross over it and allows the warrants to drive home peacefully and safely after this. After that, after the incident cooking. The holy water on all. We have to be prepared. You have to have your kit with you, I know what you're going to run into did, did Annabel, like I'm sure it started smoking in in riding around right. When I learned and probably not

even the I couldn't find anything about that now, that doesn't say doesn't exist, but I didn't. I didn't read that when I was reading upon us now, demon. Thus thou would be now, but those that you know when you look at this the model. Ok, so I just wanna- I dont want to dwell on it, but it says a lot to me about the warrants. A you know it I did die on his way home. It's a hell of a way to make light of it. You know to turn it into a spooky story. I mean still doesn't sensitive ever did happen. Is it the story of south? Doesn't make a lot of sense? I mean, have you ever been animal, recycle erin, when I was young. When I was very young, I was on the back motorcycle for a short ride How is it you think it would it would it be to have a conversation with the person? driving the motorcycle. yeah I'd ice it's so loud directors,

you'd have to be stopped. it even have a chance of that which is you don't pay maybe they were stopped, but you know, though, as the story goes, you know they're laughing about Annabelle they're, just laughing it up like that dum da like and then they crash. So I'm like it just from a logical perspective, It seems very unlikely that that that the way that it was related to the warrants could be true. I just I don't see it the cool story. It's interesting, it gives little mystery, but I don't see how they're having this conversation. on a motorcycle laughing about the style and then getting a crash like like they tell us happen. Maybe I dont see me roof and the story to me does now a lot of sense. Rainy ring at we'll campfire story thing. This is what it is, because he does have a bunch of words on a page and their effective. When we're talking about em what you're looking for this kind of thing, I think that's why people eat it up is they're looking for these types of salaries, and here they are due.

there's a lot of, I mean, if you, if you If you look If you research, Google, the warrants you know, you might come across- that cracked article and there's it's an article from cracked doc when they talk about the seven biggest frauds who everyone forgot was exposed. talk about the warrants and it's very interesting, because I feel that there is a will fall ignorance, maybe not that much of a negative thing, but a will to believe these stories any now they got spun some good yarns. You gotta give it. You got the german cool stories, but does that? Do you think that clouds lottery this judgment, because how hard was it for you to find? You know things at the bank? some of the stop there saying over its? It wasn't hard for me take a moment to get away from our sponsor racket and ragged? Ten is the smartest and most rewarding way to shop and save earn cash

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already research conclusion. They already know that people are lying to them about paranormal activities, so there now we know by anyone who says you know I there. I didn't see anything and Yet the warrants are saying: oh, he walked out of the room right when this happened in it. As I thought about. I generally that may not be the most dangerous thing, but sometimes it does become dangerous right. That's that's that's another case that we'd have to talk about tat, you highlight just how irresponsible Putting your belief, or your inside since upon the paranormal over gathering real facts in a case and proceeding proceed logically rather than for profit, and that would be I'm sure you'd know its case for referring to now in others, a point where it does become parasol Well, as you said,

a good example of that is these so called demon murder case. So that's that's, he's where the sky like about nineteen but aren't johnson. He killed his landlord after many times the case itself is We grew some, but on the other, whence came to be involved in this is what really, I think affected my opinion on them. The most basically, the whole defense was for this guy is murder. Trial is already Johnson was that he had killed the landlord because he had been possessed by demons right, and so the story the family's spawn was that this young David glad soul had ban If you read about, it, is probably suffering from some delusions or some, sir. Mental issues, baby schizophrenia, whatever it whatever was. This aren't Johnson's claim was that he had heard about whether that did. women, have use David as a host Does young boy is apparently hosting a demon, and this

already Johnson's defense was that he had killed the landlord because he was accepting. the demon into himself to save the boy, because if you read the story, they tried everything to save this kid. the young boy, from visions and his you know being played by demon and that There is clarity, men involved, but the only thing they could save him was this already johnson. Basically, he had accepted the button. the demon into his own body to help the kid that's his defence and then that point he was not responsible for his actions because he himself had become possessed and its does convoluted as it sounds. There's two versions of this: there's one for the discovery channels, a haunting. They say the real account differs. Possibly, this demon moves from David to Arnie. And then so. What they're saying is that in a court of law there saying he whispered,

ass, he didn't have any control over himself and this Interesting because some of would say why I want proof. I'm excited by the idea that there's paranormal stuff happening, but I want proof well, if you could prove it court of law, but like Add to that old movie, the miracle on thirty or street where they prove santa clauses is real. Essentially, they really have something here. Wouldn't they I mean hey when great to live in a world like ghostbusters two to where you could just have like a a trial and also some go. come out scullery brothers, I asked it Treating idea guys like us, worried that out, but just thinking about it. Spud nobody, but yeah so, but it becomes Sad, though, doesn't it They become sad because the warns kind, energetic themselves into this. And here we go from just being in our kind of quaint little goes hunters. Two people were really energetic

themselves into the lives People were going through a serious trauma, but the family of the victim the family of the alleged killer at the time? And I feel going through other cases? This is a trend you have. that just move. You know a new family, a broken homer every to every case that there are involved in their swooping. A family that is in need, or went through some really stressful times and This is the one that turn me against them. and in really really changed my opinion that the judge judge Callaghan he read acts. This defence easy you can't use that. That's not going to work and he these days. Why said? Because there no evidence. He calls it unscientific, which yet again

as we try to explain the world around us, we use science because it has to be verifiable, a hasp yet build a repeat things and get the same results, and in this case there's no way to do that. Will you bring up a good point? I mean I would like to ask in old people who would have other people accept on science big things like ghosts and any now you are forces. We have no evidence for, before you know Who are champions of those phenomenon is being real. I wonder how they would feel if suddenly, they were at a trial or a judge admitted ghost evident. So you know I mean comes down to, like you know, just daydreaming about what's out there. I am all for it. I love it the more I can believe in this, but when it comes your face, I mean, if you were killed by someone. Would you want I'm getting off because they said the old dame the devil made him do it or that a demon made him do I mean, in other words, is fun like being the stuff, but Believing in anything that doesn't have.

hard evidence enough believing in it is dangerous and here's an example and in none of us would want that kind of like flight of fancy Being in deciding our fate, if we run trial, mean It was the other way around and some were saying. Like another devil made, you do it would you and would you buy that? Would you want that to be admitted? So I think we are they'll believe, there's a health scepticism. I think we shall have to any of this type of stuff. you're getting at you think about it. The judged and accepted in the very fact that He didn't accepted was able to state. Why, and it's totally reasonable win this, belief is actually put on trial as it was here for where our army minutes, that was five minutes or whenever it didn't. Even at last, he didn't survive. It didn't make it and this time it's to defend summer. What if next time is to prosecute someone, you've gotta, look at both sides of me right ish, if you let it in or how about the

comes in and steals everything in my house or maybe I'm living victim, you now and then He'd escapes justice because he a devil demon made him do I mean? Obviously there is no end to that and its funding. Talk about it because its common sense, but it is interesting to know you know at the base level. This judge the time to say, I have considered it and I reject This is why, and when it's sunday, in that start terms like ok this is fun to an extent and then it's the witch trials or something you now. the war ends. we're all for this idea and from what I understand actually told them hey. If we I blame the assigned demonic possession, but you could get away with this we could get Arnie out of prison. Oh yeah, I mean from all accounts I mean look at you want to talk about all gladsome junior, sir, So he is David's older brother and he had never read them,

talks about this until two thousand seven. Ok, that's what he says and on that point he finally ready, I guess, there's a reprint of the novel in the case and on what he said was that now he knows why everyone in town looked at him and his brother, like that in a blew him away, and he said that he always wanted to just avoid it, and then he said. Finally, I had enough when I finally read the thing he sued for damages to him and his family. He said that it approved there. I've. His brother, whose, like you know the the boy was the original housed suffer so much negative attention from the town. They wish at church. You once came out like people believed it and wanted to see away from them, and you know he he claimed a clean fraud on everyone's part.

He claims that, basically, all the adults involved, he was privy to their deliberate frothing, so he was doing for damages on behalf of him and his brother. reading about his case at his play, like let alone victims family, what kind of damage that, due to this little kid in there and now he was shun and looked at as some kind of bad seed or in our it's like an its compelling there what he says about the kind of damage that was done to their reputation in now. The gear either gives strong case there actually are and all, but ever when anywhere, but susan really close the case. That's their reaction to I mean what does that tell you why I think again, you can follow the money. So at you know, at the end, all this, even later, because he only sir ends observing five years, but you know who supports the work and take on this that oh he was possessed. He was possessed of. Who are the people that support them?

Do you still to this day, aside from Lorraine Warren, no. What the sentencing hearing was all about. I could see I mean honestly, I could see a few people being like yeah he's guilty, I'm not going to vote but You know I don't know. Maybe I just heard a thing or two b I could see people being like that seems at a very late sons and although what admissible. Well, because they couldn't use the demonic possession they'd they decide go with self defence that, of course, that of course her chances. He is see. The problem is that you are doing the girls that people there. He pulled the robber durst. They killed his landlord and sought to fancy. I very much like that is the is original jinx boeing. You know I wasn't there when we read about how this goes down it sounds like, although it sounds like his landlord was in a pretty bad mood. Didn't I would didn't you get that idea yeah, but

I also got the impression that we just. Zone down stab the guy I mean when I was reading about. I got the impression that what was it wasn't like a struggle, Debbie thereas audience at marrying daddy Whole thing is just reeks of. We're dysfunctional family, the motivations or are possibly and listen, maybe was defence. It doubly wasn't. Even trance only. I can tell you that much. No. If you read over how this supposedly went down, there's nothing demonic, sounding about it at all its effect, it sounds like the landlord was drunk and ed Some point: Debbie wants everyone out of the room to get away from him as she sensing him he's getting heading towards, may be violence, she's getting nervous about what he might do and he grabs Debbie's younger cousin, whose only nine ready holds her and of course

answer in ernie Johnson stepson is like you need to let her go and well you know how this goes down he's not gonna. Let her go DA. I mean that's test, Terrifying ordeal right, you're right, it's good it s going it as it is, and I don't know I've been around people who were drunk and made really bad decisions that got me pretty angry as well. Now the cold I had of heavy. I get really upset when drunk people start stuff with me. Sure I mean you're right, you're right, I I I I was a inaccurate one at you right in what he I was thinking, something else he wasn't zoning out. It was definitely a really. I mean if you have a situation as a hostage situation in the skies apartment. Basically I mean It's like that in Arnie loses it and he takes out his his knife he's got to they get I have a and he stabbed him quite

for times time I guess the least like five or some five or six was a boy tat, yeah, yeah walls. those I think those are were listed. As the add the wounds, I would have contributed to his death which he dies later by time. And you are already fleas irony These bodies picked up and nothing, This says it's a demonic possession. I mean, I don't know at all. Well, it's good good point. These fleeing I'm in wooden wooden, even want to flaunt the I. Why would he be like ok now? Go hide now hide out in the super eight down the street we entered my idea here and he gets so I mean like it. If you really just I believe in this. I guess Demonized is not very effective. It's like oh well. I'm gonna bell had good luck. Police are here. My second help you now we re his behaviour did not in any way even lend credence, even if you want to say he was suffering from some

had a delusion, you couldn't even go that role. I mean you'd want to say that, like as a moraine or an overzealous, and they see someone who's suffering from a delusion and because they're so pious and religious they're, like oh, my god, it's like you can't even go there because yeah his behaviors doesn't support that in any way. Yes you're, When the reins asked about this, you know she says that priests witnessed the way possessed, and they said this was real. Well, I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that there, well old. Just put it this way. You know if you're, if you're a priest, You're still sorry, I have a foot in the paranormal world. whether he is really a malicious person or not. He still killed somebody, so he needed to have a trial they needed to sort this out just Is it a concept that we take seriously and on a lot of money goes to it. So, regardless of the from stances a trial

Need to happen for a number of reasons, because of the the occasion because of the demeanor of borrowers about, I think it's bottle. I know what you think of you to that yeah yeah. I mean I don't mind that the image of a borrowed, never my butt so you you get on doing your near like. Could he have had a decent defence? I mean I think so. I think there is enough to support us. Defense. I guess it wasn't successful forum, but imagine if the warrants had gotten their way. One in our imagine if the gun their way and there stand pontificating about demons in a court of law, and this kid, maybe just had a good reason for it. Maybe this was hurting more than anything, you know this is where I think we're hinting that Warrens may just be dangerous because they were trying to

a person, often by being deceptive and that's what it sounds like they were doing by telling the family hey, use the demonic possession you michael to get em off souls. When we look at that and be like we're jump into that conclusion unfairly, but a his behavior, point to any even a delusion and envy the defence itself was count. Intuitive. I mean all signs boy than inserting themselves in under the most nefarious circumstances. Honestly, it's hard to see another way. It was for me. a notoriety right here is how they have to write a book ass, the movie we could go through a number. Their cases like you said they claim thousand we can find ten or so, they only have so may they can make movies on. But if you look over, these cases really started dig into them.

they serve fall apart. There need, as little articles like of aegis, rita short article about the story. It's it's like a camp fires or you could read that when you go camping, be just fine, but if you really have to take it to court or you start reading interviews with people who have come out said you know I was there. Full time and I didn't see any of that weird stuff. Theirs the operation of materials, you can read to counter any of their claims. It's that easy. I like wanted to come into this believing as much as possible, or at least thinking that they had their hearts in the right place, but it it's hard for me to believe that anyone Who seriously looks at this is by into a or even have a lot of affinity for them. I, in its wanting, like we said to enjoy the. Why can they have just been said I tell her his short stories. You know, go round interview, people about their haunted houses and then and then marketed as fiction. Well, I think it's the ego, the eagle, it's big deal eggs over

There are no longer just people that are circulating on the cases now they are. The case will hopefully like this, at son of a cab dad tells them that goes, don't exists, so he's got this complex where maybe I'm under this may be. Assuming allow budgets hear me others. This is my impression you know, so he is emboldened by that rebellion. It's dad. So now, is even more of a believer his dad is telling on this is illogical and silly. Well, ok, So now he is like firm believer. He knows how to a case, in all from what we know about Elaine. She knows how to talk on the fly. have an explanation of the two them together. You know he's a cop she, is a good performer. She If you see her when she goes into these light trances, it works another very well, and I think if you read about them and who they were

I got gather start selling, paintings, apposite houses and probably very quickly realized was a market for the mecca. And these car, like stories, I think, is very very hearted and their work is anything but a wilful hoax. Well, Let's give them one more shot here, less I say we can keep covering cases. Billets does just move on to their museum because they have a museum of them. They have a haunted items. They have Strange spell books their claim to have I very very interesting items they claim to have video tapes of go occurrences in spirit occurrences there, audio tapes. So imagine us, yes, surely surely that museum must be full of all the evidence we'd ever need. We could just back everything we ve already set on the show and say: look we screwed up

you know you can point to a case here there and say this seems weird. This is inconsistent. It seem like they lied here. Try to manipulate this, but an if they ve got evidence of the paranormal than they is dead in the water right. Of course, I mean slowly. They should have the world's the vast library of proof. Could ever ass for, but You looked up some like the evidence. we must find much like. The great thing is that people have gone through this museum and then One of those is on survived yeah, I have stephen novella, actually went there now. I dont know how many people listen to this are into these sceptic community bedstead novella has a pretty big. podcast based on your capitalism, definitely his. is well known. Sceptics guide the universe. I is what is called

and creates an interesting guy he's is actually a brain specialist. I believe specialities, see as a doctor it, but he There was some other guys and they went through and started examining. What's in the museum, and of course it was walking with them at time. He was still around and he seemed very concerned with how they were taking the museum tour. couple I got in this place. He half see right through it, so let So let's kind of go over. What's in this museum that word point? Is in either the direction of woe we have. You have gotten this all wrong or really Which way did those go collar or point two well the most dreaded dal ever that you know even supposed to like acknowledge speaking on display in the glass case out of their points, to.

You can take pictures whether there is in the eating. You can search these were the Annabel in fine local authorities, so you're just not supposed to challenge her. As far as I know, as long as you don't challenge, Annabel shall leave you alone. I guess some this spirit. Is fine sitting in this case free turn it he eating. his sheer board. It maybe just break out attacks on media at random. I guess look among solid spooky friends right arm and it it does not have anything against selfies. So we can see that for sure. They loved me. They really love me, jane Sir John, to shine ready for your close up, Annabel, ok, fair enough! What else is in his museum? Well, What about the spell combined compendium, some things like this? I let me just really work. Look after me

because let like I can talk on this, the these guys are going to the museum and there's a book that catches their eye and they pick it up. They can't believe what they're holding in their hands. This is a book put display because It belongs in the museum right. It's it's. Called item. It is definitely belongs to museum inside there's a copyright. It's a dungeons and dragons book. Yeah dragging spoken there. Sir haunted me yeah and they passed off as some kind of sacred earlier ethical town, it's area one of the other books, and this is actually a book I have in my possession because I yes, you could save if someone asked me who's your favorite dead author, I was I was like you do, that debt arthur living off my feet. A dead author is hp, beloved craft and I have

I believe I have everything that he's written he's amazing, yeah. It's it's the king of the creeping out, the imagined stuff, the stuff. That's just offscreen that's to get you will also believe a boy s story will lead to the father and son, spend the night in our house, and the goals are basically lake spores its. It gives a very compelling and disturbing scientific Explanation for girls like they're, like this gathering spores or something yeah I was going That's all in, and you know he he take you through a person's madness. It's just fascinating awesome, but some theirs book. There is it's a fictional book and it's called the macroeconomic on right and it's written, my son, I arab. What was the matter right there in the books, yeah it's written by Simon, supposedly and yet better fictional book,

and they have the neck granada there in the museum and they say, oh you can't. These are some spells. You'll, never want to repeat these incantations. I mean they almost make it sound like it's going to be evil that all over again was going to say, like the evil dead dvd came in like a a plush, like her like a rubber I'm a clear case of growth that that you may tell me of the day the opening and it was just the evil dead. All I would love to be out and get it for. I love evil dead movie, I'm a total sucker for that movie Ivan like the new and better than any one was interesting. Yes, cool. Then anyway, so they have these books there, fictional looks ones actually just for role playing there. Let me put it this way because I'm going to give, daring in out here and it's because there are high life. Is there

certain color glasses right in their case is probably that spooky blue. You know miss de spooky, blue glasses, and so is hollowing, for these guys are, so if there in a house that their investigating- and they find this book- like- oh, I bet display is possessed any of these. We had this weird spell compendium or something right right. It's just a dungeons and dragons book there seeing it as a dungeon drains book back, they probably said we cannot openness, we carried it to the museum and they like this. that they keep these things in check because their priests visit and they have them. Alas, everything enemy. I am also failed under control and says that if you touch anything even accidentally, you to inform him so that they can, they can blast the areas that did not touch

If I'm not mistaken. I think first even evolves actually asked about that. Like reef ices like touching everything and laughing or something- and he said that it was watch him like a hawk and this I will command. But did you touch anything and I dont think he admitted you, but I think the weight be sort of chuckled. I think he got the idea that they were just like it's. It's probably is, All we can to a spent Read the second one where nature calls, when those guys keep looking around at ace and keep pretending he's not doing anything in the meantime is like making faces and staff, and I can only imagine they did that, and I mean the look in that place. Looks fun come out its cheesy, but I will I'll look Erin. I I we we all had like some cash when we could have been this museum before we did the episode I, if I can put that together for us, I would have preferred, would have been given well, you know. Do far. Are you no! No! No! No! Actually. I probably of fuel well. I guess I know I know the dumb at one point:

my friends was like oh yeah. I went to a friend's house and cannot because I'm in new york city, but somebody was like oh yeah, I want to just pass the amityville house. I was like whoa is the idea that in new york or we I Israel's right. Yes, you're right over there in the hotbed man, I'm surprised you haven't had any paranormal experiences you Actually here when I let's go over one another s insure, let's finish with the the warrior, quick, the long story short threaten the music, it's kind of a joke. I it's. Very impressive. When people have asked for video you'll see a frame were suddenly someone's disappeared, they anna it's a very articles like it was like be indeed or something these people were allowed to examine videotape right and they were experts. There are video experts and they found clearer, clearer it points. Cup points were somewhat supposed to be de materializing in the river what no effort to find that it was just they literally said

the camera had the person walk out like start motion. They had since the advent of film yeah, pretty sad, but that's the truth of it on the the boy that seen in the amityville house that was actually not a boy is a guy. It's the latest esben track down. It's been verified that but is people want to believe the warrants because they need this? They need the paranormal to be true, because lifestyle pretty mundane for some people. If it's not true or if you can't be horrified, so I can see why the warrants it's a lorraine, ten years to have success, because there are, of people out there that need this. Talk you about it. It sounds like you- and I are guys, were like a couple places removed from that. You know like we're into it. We don't believe it,

we're. I mean we're hooked on it too. In a way you know like this is fun subject matter, but it's it's very easy for me to see how someone who, maybe, as that is worried about scrutinised something that's hard to prove my just want to believe it and stop there and why not? I'm, usually it's not a big deal. If it's not him her trial at stake. What's the harm it generally, are we illiterate. This way, if I visiting your again? There was a paranormal group whom we know just fur for giggles. We call Marvin said: hey, are you invest gay thing we liked come along and we are we talk. for a bed may decide alaskan along. We totally go yeah I give it says is that if a chair moves, I know in a rather room. I politics Looking around oh yeah, oh my god, I will. I will love it. If I Something in the northern I, unlike get up, walk around. I'm? No, these girls hunters are so afraid

I guess that's why they signal so much because I'm I'm not afraid I've loved you. I love you yeah they have these images like ghosts, bills and feel a lot of times. This is like particles of dust in the light of the adding my lord things by one and was debunked phenomenon in all. This goes research I mean If we want to one really gonna learn about the how why it's does part it also makes little orbs because that's the way the lens works. You know it's a little dust particle that looks like a perfect circle. That's the way it it filters light or whatever, and it's it's. there's nothing to it. So I hate The orb saying I really bugs me and its its perpetuated. I see a lot of people turning away from a now, but it still out there it steadily out there Like it was frustrating is I of course I troll all those paranormal websites in the message boards, I'm just looking for somebody. I can believe in.

so what I m a sceptic, I'm a sceptic wants to believe more than any of you could guarantee you. I want but yeah yeah, I mean everytime patrol of notes. The orbs are kind of becoming less credible. the if you fall asleep. There are none at all for her thought. I put you to sleep now, so anyway, I guess is my way of saying that I would totally go on a ghost town. I would start go visit, abandoned houses, these some like fun things I I I would have no trouble. hanging out with paranormal investigators. I might be thinking it's silly that they're carrying around this equipment that they really understand how to use you see that all jumping up and down and getting excited bedtime since I'm. the horror fantasies the atmosphere of it. She I mean our marilla than in Boston briefly remember:

be on a website, unlike I might email these guys and ask if I can go on a ghost on whether he knows I'm pretty close to like just being like hey. Let me tag along its grey. I want to believe yeah, so I might knock the warrants because I mean nothing against going getting a buck, but I think they ve overstepped their pounds ends also don't like their tone. There are a lot of stories and joan Echo is investigator and he's actually had a run in with at worn in the past, and he said this guy headed big time, attitude very abrasive by all accounts by accounts. Definitely so I guess Those of you who are very much in the paranormal may even have paranormal group that europe of making go on ghost hunts or investigations, hey

I am interested, I think what you do is fun. I just will go on record as saying that I think the the warrens should not be on the poster for the paranormal. All I see is fraud and hoax and bad news I, but for the did you find with it. I think most people are curious and they're just looking, and this is what they feel like there are meant to do so good for them, but the eye on that. They are the ones I second that I am the guy, like all the guy stories out there in the adventures of these people output. those hundred output taps as more credible than the warrants unlike And I don't find them particularly credible, but yeah that is important to say, like a night, condemning or I these stories people out there generating and their anecdotes. Like fuel my sense of wonder- and I wouldn't have any other, I would want to stamp out the the beliefs of any because that is endlessly fascinating to me. One people

talking about orbs and things like that eludes me cause it's like how very easily explained but arm up into them. boy I mean I loved. I am always down here, goes story or an attic door, a personal account of a cow, always meaning always give some of the benefit of the doubt. He also found that if you just look up paranormal websites by people, I know there's a group in my area. My ticket, tat them at some point there in liberty, I believe, but a leather websites. They have plenty of photographs, they document what they do. I dont see that, with the warrants you know you had to their webs. Just gonna website has terrible music playing and you go through and they don't have a lot of data, then, a lot of words. That's all they have a lobby, small time. Personal websites have plenty of photographs, they have recordings day actually have something to offer and I think it's because their willing to contribute to the public

rather than the ones who just like to contribute to themselves. There is a great point. I didn't think about that. Some, do you know too too deeply, but you're right, I mean the geocities website? It plays like many version of green, a song which is really odd and I wanted to. I wanted to. I wanted to believe that they were just kindly old folks who really had a good story to tell and in in we're in this. For other reasons, but now the warrens through research with subsided. I cannot really start to dislike them in general. I have to say so you were saying that youth possibly have had. Apparently more experience do want to talk to us about that. Will I've got a couple but one that I had when I also learned debunk ago story infra sound arm, paranoia. All these buzzwords but their true. So many say it: sleep browsers, disconnect for so much, but I do

no have my little stories joy believe it's silly girl, no, but I'll tell you exactly what happened in a car after a gig coming as an abstained. New york. I placed with the steward resin, bang went onto his leg house and we're gonna party. There so we're on our way. You know, I know ex occasion because were driving and stuff background. We mess we're going where new base pairs house for the first time we miss the fur in the row. We didn't realize it at the time by we are getting more and more lost and there is patchy reception other in the cell phone. We, saw what looked like a really weird looking cat run further road, it looked out see through it looked almost like a hologram. We I mean. I asked him to describe it back to me afterwards and he said the same thing and it looks like we're gonna nail, it

and we didn't now there was no sound. I looked around out. We would have him don't you can't anywhere look behind us once again, we see Going and, unlike so did, kinda catlett, weird yeah what did you see, could you will see through and caught a bluish in like a hologram? Ok, that's what I saw too. So, basically, freaking out cause. It was really weird and I'm like did you see? There was some kind of wooden things over there. There was like a bunch of stuff over there. What I learned the rnc certainly tells me, didn't see it regardless the just the story is that when I told my friend, do we take wrong. Turn at certain fork is like Alice. You pass the pet cemetery alike. just made me, get the jails and there was

fine and sure enough. There's a pad cemetery, and when I looked around for the cat that we didn't hit, I was looking I saw some wooden structures taking in the light of the day. I sure enough bunch of processes. Right there we saw there was upheld cemetery. So that's my little girl story. It's a ghost tat. While you know about no offense spoke evaluate the here, and now it's a ghost southern scary, but it was weird I saw with another person and we cannot have the same cow. Leave it ghost no, but I think it without embellish man at all. I can assure you fit so many of the ghost story. Parameters that I'm like. I can see why everyone has one or a lot of people. Do you now you can relate, yea it doesnt mean if I dont believe someone goes through either try. I can, I don't know believe my goes to his ghost, but but everything was there and I could see

It's a cat caught the light at the right way and that were we were tired from driving so long and it looked extra weird to both of us. You know, and you know, ghost stories And because of coincidence, maybe in out whether notable and we all know coincidences can happen. Sometimes they can pile up to three fold and that it's a notable story, not as its goals but because everything fit to make a good story. may I think what you're getting at his sincerity matter. So, if someone's writing a story, and they're just telling you what they saw their, not sure that it's for a lot, because we probably have all have these stories there and and that's why I love had that story, because I don't have to embellish it at all. It was creepy and weird, and I'll, never probably believe, was really a dead cat, but I know that that's how went down- and it was pretty creepy and cool- I wish I had more experiences like that. yeah. When I was young, I used

that the areas I thought for sure. If there were such things as ghost, I would run across one in one. I make. My cousins family had a farm up up. I'd, say central northern michigan and you know you'd go through the house and stuff in their like in the walls you to be the really old newspapers lying, probably for installation I have seen that in my ogre, my grandma's old house, that's crazy air and there is a seller and it had a dirt floor and it was so neat walking through these areas, especially at night, and he just had a little flashlight and, of course, It's back then we're nowhere near as good as they are now, but yeah yeah just walking through and then just turning out the light for you to see how long you could hold out for and then, of course we would challenge we challenge in the gulf. And see if anything would come out come on any sissies sooner show yours on fourchan.

Think the only time we ever got scares when we'd scare each other, because you know it was about eighty acres and lot of wooded areas and we would just get lost out there and then try to track each other down. So you could scare who one of the cool times was my my brother and I were walking back and my cousin had hidden himself inside of his car. So we were walking past If the car and all of a sudden the horn goes off and my brother just about, I think he almost left her shoes on the ground. He went so high up and had a sneaking suspicion. He was around. So you know, I didn't know for sure. Was the car I didn't I we were on guard. I was on guard but he was he was so good. I had to go over at times like that is awesome. I wish I had thought of that. You know the time. leave. It always try to scare each other, and I think the attic part where the you'd see the newspaper behind the walls, the walls he could get him between the walls up there and down and he could get under the bed some

and so his his siblings would be in the room sleeping at night with us. He would say he would hide under the bed at some point and once in a while, his knee would drag on the ground or something- and you just here- is sister go. You know bradley you get back in your bed right now and say anything he would just hold still I mean it, I'm gonna call for mom and dad and done, and then he will die. and he gave up but other times he'd he die say: oh yeah, I just far better and they go you're a liar. He just left her and then he'd. He wait like thirty minutes and try it again. He eventually they fall asleep and that's when he would get that gets his hand with snake out from underneath the bed and grabbed her ankle. And ah, yes, he's got balls because you have ever been the one who's waiting to scare someone it can go.

scary, you're, like okay, I'm just going to hide behind this thing, stark and then they're way over there, I'm going to school shit up and they're like now. What if some excuse shouldn't be right now hours of horror fanatics though he was just as we were, and we ate it up and then, of course, the and you could actually used the vents to speak. The people so sounded out riding right, grandma's house all this share, despite besides, acres, although acreage the headlines in the basement the headlights of newspaper was they had to vans created is awesome, so ass any I there are times just walk round just take it in our just look around and is fascinating. So my great aunt lived there She showed a house, they both had an upsurge a downstairs, but there are connected and arm but separate for that. Was they had like a secret passageway between the closets? If you went into what was my uncle Jim's room because he lived with my grandma, she went into his closet, you could

go through a panel and go all the way to the other parliament. I'm sure they ve killed it up, but it was like the most magical thing. When I was a kid cause, I guess I got it was my great and my grandma, so I can go back and forth, but it was like the coolest secret passageway like ruhmer webster? That show the I didn't really watch it bedtime yeah. You wear it into a house to have a ton of hidden passages. Unlike poet, in my dumb waiters. You could write up and stuff gathers as me. Let perfect their environments for hunted houses, Well, I'm before we go since we got so wrapped up in the topic of bear and go still have a favorite ghost movie favorite What movie I mean you can't be ghost, in the romance the other crazy guy in the trade kicking can claim that do that

ok, business man who kills Patrick Swayze, easy greenville I think that the little goblins I've gotta ghost like ghost is my favorite ghost movie. I was surprise that surprises me. I think I just keep without through word association. what my favorite goes movie and its been this way. Since the film came out in the early eighties beds, the changeling with george cease. got through with a little kids right, oh yeah, to the old ancient wheelchair up in the attic there that thing turns and that ball starts bouncing down the stairs. I mean it's in the pipes the bane pipes and then the scenes with that kid in the water being drowned. Hungary is already yards it. Sam to this day it still my favorite either Some of those lay gum like the orphanage. That's a really good. goes movie it some what's his name.

I know. Are you going to save and I'll say he just produced it out? Ok, yeah, torres, my fair directors I give up on all of his yes neither but heeded. What's the other goals will be heeded. The new director goes movie that eta coming out its crimson peak this year a now, but it have done in the past and it was titled the devil's backbone out backbone right that one's cool and concentrate saw that sets out there for me to yeah as far as dislike. You know, and I love honestly the doo doo did. I think it was. The curse. There is, Japanese version or not occur some the grudge, the grudge He did a bunch of shorts and are shot unlike video and you can get him online and there on the grudged series, but it'll be like some do in his car. and it looks like a soap opera almost but then you'll turn around and I'll be goes keeping like

The current jumps scary, but it's kind of late, unsettling. We realistic and mundane until the ghost of other those are really effective and scary mustn't. The original the grudge, title you on you answered the guide who guy that and he a bunch of short that one is a white ghost wait goes by goes- maybe I don't know, but it was not like stroller while and israel scary wealthy love her come on. Man is one and entertaining to talk about these cases and to heavy share a story with ascend. Just get to the paranormal in general.

yeah. Thank you so much for having me on the

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