Yuba County, California. February 24, 1978. Five men went to a basketball game in Chico, California to watch their favorite college basketball team play. They never returned home. Four days later their car was found on a Plumas National Forest access road. There was no sign of the men and no indication of why they had abandoned their operable car. In June, the remains of four of the five men were found even deeper in the forest. The fifth man remains missing. No one knows why they went into the forest. If it was voluntary or foul play was involved, or why they died when the trailer had enough supplies to allow them to survive until spring. This case is full of mystery. Join us as we attempt to sort out what happened to these five friends.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I it's an iron, I'm doing good justin how're you. I am wonderful. yeah? It's funny! We had a few- people write in recently and say still having trouble telling you apart. So if you're here, this voice, this erin I'm the one that ass him, how you doing tonight air
and you are. I am just so good to me, oliver, Do we really sound that much alike? I don't know you're so just I will say monotone, but you're so structure with your language and I'm just all over the place of mine scientists assume that people would know. Well, maybe you just help them out and if you don't know which ones which like when you meet us, I have hair no offense, her writers receding, but I do still have such a shave all minor. Yet I'm not that point yet, but probably soon anyone owing to the saint Paul, meet up at Joseph grill. We will see you this coming week on the sixteenth. I don't get a lot of time to sit down and read a book moist ago, but I love reading. So the solution is audible, audible
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alibi by through that were that tiny tiny lie, the killer told them the first interrogation boom. He may wonder how is this going to end, but that's kind of the fond of a good crime story. Are you ready to stream some crime stories right now? Hulu, it's a crime not to watch. What are we time out tonight? Her people love a good, miss jason yeah finally doing a mystery, we're getting away from murder and mayhem. So he can tell that we're trying to mix it up a little bit here. Well, actually, we covered quite a bit of mystery lately, I think we covered the loss. Girls of panama, recently that was that was a mystery, but this one comes about because most people describe it as the d outlaw pass of america, which I think this once more mysterious than that, because case you have people
that are going on a hike in a treacherous area that fall to some sort of horrible demise, where, this they want. Hiking or camping, they weren't supposed to be in the wilderness right they weren't, even supposed to be where they were found or where their car was left so long, questions on how this goes down, how five men and up On the side of the mountain for men, one missing say, is the you back the five and this group: ran into trouble on fair, twenty. Fourth, nineteen. Seventy eight in California yeah I've heard case referred to as the Matthias group and other name, so yeah but county five or matthias disappearance,
If you wanna, go check out more information, you can google, those those names These five men were what they in common was that they were part of a programme four mentally handicapped adults, and this. they are a part of it- was the you back. Anti reappear litigation its basis. Vocational center. They would these men and others a train and find work and help them find places to live. let's go through the men, there's jack Majuba, who is free from maryville. He was. I put eleven hundred ninety pounds. He was a high. Graduate and an army veteran. He had been, recently laid off, his job. He sir, to have a low, I q, but he wasn't
I noticed he was obviously a part of this programme, because his family felt that he needed structure and assistance and so from what we can tell. This had been a very good program for him and being that he was an army veteran that would have given him structure. and he would have been able to function pretty because you need a regiment in need, be told what to do so he's given and the army, but once he's out he He needs a little bit of assistance if he's considered slow He is a good friends with william Lee sterling who is Twenty nine years old, he's five foot ten. and seventy pounds: brown, hair. blue eyes. He was very religious and would spend lots of hours at the library, reading, literature and would help bring Jesus And the word of god to pay
since at the organisations and institutions that they were at their is theo. or earl where he is I've had eleven twenty pounds, you worked for a while, a janitor anna snack bar clerk, but later quit as his family thought that it just worth working out for him. They thought perhaps the I was too much for him. He was. scribe as being a very friendly person. Almost two trusting- and They said that he would get really worked up and upset if sir, he waved get somebody not even someone he knew just at somebody and They chose not to waive back. He was Good friends with. I will sterling. He would call him on the phone and read sigh, five novels newspaper articles and funny names from the phone book Jackie hewett, this twenty five from maryville. He was five nine hundred sixty pounds
the way he walked. He didn't stand up straight. His head, drooped, and he was kind of slow to respond at times but he loved hanging out with where he really like where was his his best friend then we have guessed dale Matthias, who was twenty five years five, ten hundred seventy pounds. He he was, I guess. The late come to the group, the fine friend in the circle yeah he showed about a year or so before them. The guy's, a knowing tat. If a number of years He was an army better and just like madrid was, he left the military do to a psychiatric discharge, because of drug problems. Had been in germany. and die. His discharge happened about five years prior to nineteen, seventy eight there. Our police records on him
that he was violent occasion and had been charged with assault a couple of times. He was on at because he had schizophrenia now, when you too medications for something like this, you needed them regularly, and there were times You know, after he got back from germany where he take his drugs, they said that he lapse into a disoriented psychosis that word land him in the veterans, administration hospital, and his staff for Bob described as he went, haywire. Yeah he's a little different from the other guys because the other guys are considered till the handicapped or law. or I q, but Gary myth I ass is considered high functioning by They also say, though he
and do well and stressful situations and that functioning does deteriorate when place. under stress I would actually argue that all these guys are somewhat high functioning for their demise capacity there, to get themselves up in the morning and go to a regiment of day there, completely helpless by any stretch of the imagination, and they are very active, meaning, our friends. They go out and do things it's that two of them actually had found. somebody overdosing from drugs and were able to call for help and a person and He won't save their life so are functioning, so they have a love basketball and there's a going on games going on in their hometown right. Well, there favorite team and that's easy davis. You
he Davis was going to be playing chico state. Well, they could easily get to chico state by car and They even had their own game. They were going to be playing in. They decide to go on a trip which again would show you just because you say their men, handicapped or low functioning how we want to describe that they can see Oh, go off on a trip together and its Jack my drew guy who has a car, it's a nineteen, sixty nine mercury montego. They can get this car and they can head off. To go see this game. You see Davis verses chico its of forty six mild drive for them, which about an hour for them to get to chico, take seventy highway and then they the orville east exit and not should keep them on flat land and on the highways they leave, for the game, but then no one hears from them. Do you mean the just. How excited they were. They all
had these shirts there had gateway gaiters across the chest it was because that was name of their team. For the euro city vocational rehabilitation centre that report of even the fires, had bugging his mom saying: hey we're going be playing saturday. Don't let me oversleep, he really wanted to make sure that he was on the schedule so that everything we go smoothly, but no heard from them come saturday and find out that nobody no one saw them at the game. Yet so we don't even know if they were even at that game now granted they could have made it and no one saw them or notice them after the game let's out, they stop at there's market. The clerk who is there is described is being mildly annoyed by these men who buy one hostess cherry pie, allaying, endorse, limb, pie a snickers bar
marathon bar to pepsi S and a court and a half of milk right. There is kind of I because there are five men travelling, but it look like they have items for four right. If counting these items or for drinks enforced snacks. It sounds caught a random year, Barbara. Perhaps one of them didn't feel like eating her drinking anything, and I am sure that if the work was annoyed. It was probably because they were fooling around or maybe not. acting quite their age and having a good time, saturday morning, at five ten, Here's mother wakes up an accord to her. She wakes up afraid, She doesn't know why. She just feels like something is wrong so get on the phone and she calls bill sterling's mother his mother had been up since two and she's worried the plan was, let's just be clear about this, because our don't I weaving clear enough, but there are supposed to go, see you
Davis by chico in chico than they were. to come back and then the Next day they were going to play basketball for thirteen, so they were expected home. Now night and when their mothers wake up saturday morning and their sons or not there, its raising the alarms yet and these aren't people then Matthias these aren't people known to stay out, and so the game let out at about ten p m, they were expected, private. Imagine before midnight and that's the problem is. these guys follow a very regimented day day do not break the rules, they do not we bell again, their parents very well behaved people, so they should have come home. It's obvious something is wrong, the only one that doesn't quite fit. That is Matthias because he had to say- a few times where he ended up at his grandmothers house,
and he didn't tell anyone, but they for the most part these aren't men who break the routine Because that's what helps them, then Mrs, whereas feeling worried here, then she calls jackie hewetts mother mrs where's daughter in law, walk down the street and talk to gary Matthias stepfather bob by eight at evening. Mrs Madeira called the police we county sheriffs department, store it searching for these guys. This is happening on February. Twenty fifth we twenty eightth check me. Is car, is found his murder. Antigo. Forest ranger came across it on an unpaid bro near oroville now remember it was the oroville exit that day take it. In an area known as rogers cow camp area, just because I want to re emphasise this is the late seventies
we don't have gps mapquest, nothing, You just know where you're going, but These guys knew their way around, or at least I leave madrid that knows way around. So it's weird dead, the car is found up the side of the mountain completely in the opposite. Direction or where they should be right, so chico and their location. Where at where the car is found, is seventy miles distant, make sense that they would be forty five hundred feet. above sea level. The a better idea. It's a two point. Five hour drive from chico how they going away from where they were supposed to go. I dont know I mean that's part, mystery here I mean it. One exit that they missed, but they know where they're going to go up a mountain and that's not jailing the weather's not the best it is now time
the weather wasn't kind because there is a lot of snow dumped in that area anyway, that's been in this area of California, California is very interesting place. You have warm beaches and snow on the mountains all same time and is in February. So it's it's winner. police. Look over this vehicle again this is the county sheriffs department. Vehicles unlocked and one of the windows is down. They dont fight the keys with vehicle, but The police are wondering, if perhaps the vehicle- stuck somehow or, if maybe, couldn't start the vehicle backup. Maybe it died so they hotwire it to see if the car will start- and it starts immediately, so there gas in it and it's running there's no damage this car that they can find. This is the kind of road where they would expect some damage to happen, especially if they were driving at night, given
the wintry conditions, but they I don't see any evidence other than I mean it seems like the car was driven very carefully and that something it fits with the vehicle and with madrigal, because people said that metro gel loved his car, but that's where with the window being down that something that doesn't really fit no, it doesn't and I think the damage references more about they weren't side white by another car or ran off the road just don't understand how you damn your car driving down a road where they said that the road ahead, some rots and stuff in it, where maybe, if you cruising along a little too quick? You crazy damage by obviously They were driving carefully they did find the items that were bought. It bears, and so the story of the clerk getting annoyed with them and then they find the items that they are purchasing. It makes sense so agendas. Nothing about this. That seems like foul play other than that the window
is down and you might even say, because the car is locked, because if Madrid is going to walk away from his car. Maybe he would lock it. I dont know, but then again it is the late seventies, it's cold out windows down. That's normal to me and, of course, the men not being anywhere around the area and not found that is very out of the ordinary, again the conditions there are very, very snowy, very cold. This urge last for about five days and they can't find these men. I say five days a severe blizzard moved in and I guess that would hamper their search efforts, because if you have these guys walking through snowy areas, you think they leave prince, but once the blizzard goes through, if they haven't found the prince by then well, there are never going to find them, take him home get a word from our new sponsor price line, do you have a group chat? Were you continuously talk about summer? Get but never
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when her coat I will say that when I would drive to work every day, You know in the mid west, Would wear a light code or I just would not dress for it, because I'm always going from one climate controlled environment to another, but if you're carbon it's down. I mean for me, I'm I work and live in a very populated area, so I could get to civilization within a quarter mile wherever I broke down, but these guys there's not a lot out there. If you have to walk even five miles and this freezing cold it could be pretty deadly the authorities would like some assistance with this case, and we ass for assistance sometime, you get it. You just don't know if it's useful or not- and in this case There's a woman that reported seeing these five guys in a red, pickup truck, on saturday and sunday, but she said it was added
from location and its eta location, that's about an hour's drive from where the car was bound operated, a store there, and she said that two of them came in to buy food and one of them made a phone call from a phone booth, but that the to state in the truck again. She has the right number of guys, but the way she describes the way they act in they're doing doesn't really fit with what people would expect from this group it doesn't seem like she really has the right people and their parents would say that they don't have enough money or work. Give enough money to make several stops at convenience stores. So they'd doubt this, citing immediately but there is another witness Joseph shown suez, fifty five years old, he driven his volkswagen bug, the same road where the mercury was found, and he said he was on that road sometime
after five. Thirty that same evening, I guess it would have been that friday when he said he up there because he was interested in bringing his wife and daughter up that weekend and he wanted to check the area out but the wrong day to go up, and yet he really do any. His cart got stuck in the snow, which is just but the snow line so he's fifty cards beyond where the mercury was found, I guess as he was trying to free his car, he had a. heart attack now here, and die from this heart attack was a mild one yeah, but it's enough where it puts him down and he asked to cross. I can do his car started up for the heat and just lay there and hope that somebody comes around and he claims that somebody does come around right here, scribes hearing whistling noises. down the road. So He gets out of his car and I think it's because hey, maybe
help us arrived right. Maybe someone can drive him out of there and he says when he looks down that way down the road He says he sees a group of men and a woman carrying a baby, He said there walking around in front of a vehicles. Headlights. He calls out for help, but then says the headlights go out and all- talking stops, so he got back in his car and lays down. I think, he's yours, a mile heart attack, and I don't think he's out for any kind of physical work. He doesn't want to go down toward them. So he disliked back down. Then it's a few. hours later He says that he sees its outside his car like flashlights and again he yells out and says: hey. I need help and the flashlights are turned off and every checking out his vehicle goes away. He
We will say that it's possible that the vehicle he saw was a pick up, but its nighttime the headlights, IRAN. He's having a heart attack. It's not really clear if he asked We did see a pick up because when I hear that than I think of the lady at the convenience store. That said, oh, I saw these guys on a red, pickup truck wall. I think what is that a connection, but it's not real verified that he saw this his car eventually ran out of gas and it was still dark that time, but he decide to walk to find help. He makes his way back down as he does he passes by a mercury montego. which is obviously the same car that the five men had been in you don't know how accurate his story is because he's, telling it the way he remembers it and
He was going through some serious stuff if you're having a mild heart attack and you're worried about freezing out there, and he has a lot going on yeah. I don't think he's hallucinating, but he might be able to read to take details from the night because he's doing with his own staff- and I dunno I just think walking in the freezing cold, down a mountain four miles after you, ve just had a heart attack super eyes. He lived by. do think it's interesting that he describes the situation as one in which he called for help and each time it he did the people who talking stop talking and lights, went out so, possibly a clue. I think ginger of nineteen. Seventy eight, when a motorcyclist is riding through the area and just a broken window on for a service trailer, this service trailers about sixty feet long, the trail
is this questionable, because most people reported as nineteen miles up the mountain from where the car was found, but could have been or twelve miles. It just depends on who you ask asking what map you're looking at, but its lesson nineteen, but either way you're talking about a several hours or more walk from the car. This trailer and the reason we're talking about that is because inside this trailer which has a broken window, is the body of ted we're he's lying in bed. Spatial hair hairs grown out. He's lost between. eighty and a hundred pounds his feet. severely. Frostbitten his shoes are missing, and has also been draped in eight bedsheets They literally cover his neck. All away to his toes, I miss him
that this is for warmth, because there wasn't a lot of blankets, so they just layered em up with sheets we're clothes inside the trailer that he wasn't using that he could have used her warmth, but it appeared that he was tucked in that he couldn't have just tucked himself in that way. so they're investigating this and, according to their estimation, the authorities believe that he me have lived eight to thirteen weeks after his disappearance based on his beer growth, his approximate in her power weight, loss peers, as though either himself and some other people have in eating some see rations that were available on site now, there's a locker full of food, their max is lying around. There is a problem in heater outside there's books. Wooden furniture tons, stuff that they could have used for warmth, tons of food
that they could have eaten, but none of it has been used or even but these cans that were opened were opened with a special can opener right. Justin yeah, a p. Thirty eight, which is pretty much ass, a flat piece of metal with the curved later. I guess and it's a mill terry style can opener and it's not the most easy thing to figure out. If you ve never been shown how to use it. So only people with military experience might have a clue had opened again at this thing and regards to the men. We ve been talking about the two we know how to use. One of these can openers would be Matthias and my ruger, but if only twelve of them were opened and this guy live for eight thirteen weeks, I mean, somehow he had opened taking care of right now, and so they
Look through this trailer and they try to take stock of what's in there to see if any of this stuff belong to the men they find, a ring that belonged to we're on the table The bed that he's in there has his name engraved on it there find a gold necklace that was his along with a wallet that still had money inside it and then a goal. Wealth and watch, but its chris. was missing and No one who Was a relative of these missing men could identify it They don't know where that watch came from. So it's kind of, difficult to understand what happened at this service trailer, because There are twelve see rations that had been opened and used. There is plenty more food available. It just wasn't used so who made it to the trailer, but we know that we are made to the trailer They continue to search for the missing men at this. They're still missing sterling medusa, hewett and Matthias the day off.
They find where's body and about four wait five miles away from their. They believe that they face and sterling and madrid madrid, the stew had the keys to the car. Both These guys were on either they run its side of the road that led to the trailer and so they were about eleven point four miles from the car. Madrid there remains had been seen. Or animals. He had been dragged stream his hand still curled around his watch sterling was found in a wood it area. and his remains were scattered over about fifty feet, Again, I don't know me tat. We have to say this, but you have someone, it goes missing in an air with wild life. Good luck! finding them because the remains get scattered because of animals. It sucks, because, if there was foul play if they were if they were shot or something it's hard
determine that when there remains had been eaten or just really hard to tell what is animal predation and in what could have been I've been used against them, so we assume that they weren't murdered, but again it the town with the state of their bodies, jack He was found two days later, is found off the same road, but he was, closer to the trailer at this kind of sad, I think, but his father was out helping to search, and I know that the authorities I told them- hey- maybe you shouldn't be out here- what you find something If his son was that he wanted to know, he wanted to find his remains and found his sons, backbone along with some of his items, including a pair of levi's and his ripple sold. there's shoes, so
kind of a sad moment- but at least he has found his remains- his skull would be found the next day about a hundred yards downhill from the other once they had found and His skull was identified by jack's dentist They were not able to find gary Matthias, no body they know that keep me. to the trailer because they found his shoes right. Well, speculation by it's, probably a good one, is because you find his shoes doesn't mean that over sure that he was there, but it makes sense because where was missing his He actually had what boots there and regulation is because Matthias issues were found in the trailer that he must taken weirs boots and put them on Matthias was not as large a man as we're but heck. If your fee our frost bitten and
Hence woollen me those larger boots. Waxy fit you a lot better, plus there better for moving around in there you know in the conditions, we're is incomplete. so tat it or not to take care of himself whose taking care of him it's it's. seems that somebody was feeding him. Somebody was talking him in and into this bad. So we go with me I was the one that. Continued on now, we'll have his body, but If he climbed up the mountain or tried get somewhere in pay he's never found him it's possible or Matthias is had some sort breakdown he's off his meds. He might down the the mountain and then and is just Living homeless on the streets, we don't know some People will never believe that guy
if was even there, but I think that because they found the sea rations had it been opened with ie can opener guys private not to use it must they were former military and well. Drew gotta. Amadeus are both former military guys. They know how to Is this opener someone we are in, and I would say that that's some time before he died its like it was most probably gary Matthias. But again there are things This whole case will constantly bring up questions, and one of those I brought it up earlier was whoever style. Did that bears store. Well, they. they bought enough items for four people, for drinks enforce knacks, and yet they were spoken five men along so it's gonna do go to say how does that you to figure out the instigation? Geisha, this I'd say, is pretty good
want to figure out if the men even tried to stay with the vehicle, to figure out why they would have ended up at the trailer. Yup one's easy actually, because a snow cat had gone through the area and had packed the snow on the way the trailer from where the car was so that whole line was easy to follow for people on foot, because you don't really want to go off off this row. Into nature, because you're not gonna, do well out there. So following this path, its main compact down by the snow cat, it seems good direct line possible safety. What that's true but why are they leaving the car? and going to the trailer I'm here I understand how they got their understand? Why they day Look that route, because it was the path of least resistance but wire. Doing it Why are they even here on this mountain visa? That problem right again, there are so many questions here. That would cause you to doubt your own
theory of what happened. The car gas left in it. I think it was about six gallons. They could have the car running, but again they left it. For some reason, one theory is is that they had the lights. In the car. They had gotten out of the car and they were looking around trying to figure out what to do, and then heard from a man up the road and we are doing but his story, but maybe they got a little freaked out when they heard him calling one. They probably didn't expect to hear anybody else on that road just curious to me that they would get really free out by someone calling out to them, because maybe they could have used somehow, maybe they could. Talk to someone who actually knew where they should go when they driving on this road? Its understood that there tyres would have been slipping here and there so go back down the road, maybe not the best idea. But what are you think just in me, why stop and get out
and leave one of the windows down woke I take heart attack man's account somewhat seriously, as said that he saw a woman with a baby. Now I think Why would they have the window down while they were approached by some he and they rolled down the window. They pulled the car over and they talk to someone Something happened that made them flee the vehicle, my original theory. Was they were driving up the mountain and there's a woman with a baby? It's freezing outside on the side of a mountain. Why would you not stop to help her and then possibly maybe she's a ploy she he's somebody to real, u n and then her boyfriend or her partner crime comes around with a gun, and then they rob you. So They pull over and saw the road to help this woman with a baby and then
the robbers jump out. The men decide what we're out here and we're gonna run up them. to escape or maybe held held at gunpoint and then decided to make a run for it, but the problem I theory is why Are they there in the first place it does Explain why their driving up this mountain, which obviously not the right place to be going right. One theory could be that some one met up with them at that bear, store or just outside of it and played a prank on them or trick them de going there, so they could rob them that my explain why the window is down. Maybe they both on the road, someone got out and try to rob them and then they took off, but would someone be using a gun? I mean. Why would you run from a gun and howard? Five men get away like that and why the shown sky here any gunshot, it's kind of difficult to believe,
but then again all along this case. There little questions here and there that are difficult to put together under one umbrella, at least as far as the answers go wall to go my theory of possible foul play then I think will maybe they met the woman with the baby at the committee, in store or somewhere along the road like a hitchhiker, and they picked her up and then she said: hey to go this direction to go home. Something to that effect and then they gave her a ride, then something went wrong. That would be Only explanation is that there were lured up the mountain But would they have room in his mercury montego for a sixth person, pretty big car it would be, it would be a very tight fit exactly but Go back to sounds the shown was saying thought there might have been to vehicles, yeah, so they go up the mountain and
there is another vehicle. Maybe her counterpart and that guy jumps out holds the the men at gunpoint or captive. Somehow We never hear that there was another car really just besides the fact that they said there is men and women with a baby standing in front of a car or headlights. say more than that, so we don't know. That sort of my foul play angle. Is they were coaxed, there? They were lured there by somebody that was going to rob them or something it's not the best theory, though, because one five guys on a car, that's not the best target to rob, I psych that's you know, but if you have a gun, hey gimme, your wallets and then I'm out of here. So that's foul play at least in my mind, is the
met. Somebody along the road or somehow took a wrong turn, ended up on the mountain and then ran into somebody, but I think the first is more likely Another theory is that you Matthias had them drop him off somewhere because Matthias wasn't with them. They ran into some trouble. Driving around and got lost was Matthias from a town over the mountain through the woods that day, could have gone that way, yet wasn't that he was from the area that you're referencing, which is forbes town, but he knew a guy there there. Speculation that maybe he will be dropped off over there because he wanted to use drugs again, you can live, and you can start using again. So maybe this all of his his time, about looking forward to the the basket
games that weekend. Maybe he was really planning on going away because he had done it a few times where he took off and somewhere that they weren't expecting him or its past that he was off his ads and decided we're going somewhere else today guys. But I don't know, I mean he's off of his medications. Then things can get very, very weird, She, if they get lost because he's sitting in the wrong direction, and he's known under stress to become less capable I can see were if they get lost, then he's no help. And this is where, if someone's calling out to them maybe he takes it, as are all were in trouble, and so what are the other guy's gonna? Do they might just feed off what he's doing go along with it.
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These guys had already been in areas like this area and never wanted to go back in a one. Guy went fishing didn't want to go back to the next time, another guy when camping did not want to go back. They didn't like the outdoors, especially an area like this, where you don't have to come. Of home get missing an exit and possibly going very far out of your way and getting lost. I guess my ears, who is why did they pull over to the side of the road and then leave the safety and he of the car. Well, they pull up. And ahead of them is jones car possibly they couldn't get around it work didn't think, I get around it so they get out and start talking about what they're going to do, because they dont feel confident backing up and you they can't really go forward, maybe shown yelling freak them out. Maybe that is what, can you just takes one wrong decision? You have done
as falling I know that sounds like I'm over simplifying by totally see it. I figure If there's five of them, it might be crampton the car so a few of them try to head out to find if there's shelter, somewhere else. They saw the year the snow cat trail, but then I've. I would just assume that would go up. There find the trailer and then come back, but again there, dressed for this weather. two of them go and then don't come back the next to go to go, find them where they add, aren't they ve lab and they returned. It could go downhill very quickly. I wonder like if you're going up a mountain, why would? just turn the car around here, just turn it around and go back down. You know, I don't know that. turn around. I think that the problem and its on paved road. So there's that and there by the snow line
so it may be that they could slip and go off the road now be really bad. The distance from the car to the trailer again is disputed. It could have been twelvemonth I gotta be nineteen, but still, it's a long journey which, middle the night freezing, cold weather, that's not good. going up hill and some in snow, your feeder getting frostbitten because you're not wearing the correct clothing. prepared. That's me than four hours walk. That's going to take its toll So not all the men were found together We assume that we're Matthias made it to the trailer, but the rest when were found other places did they. I'd stick together where they were carrying out in different ways. You already said they could have left at different times from the car its past They went in different groups or me,
be they were all headed to the trailer, but they just didn't all make it. Maybe some of them got lost Maybe they didn't wait for each other, or maybe they were too far apart this part of the reason why they call this the merry India love pass because, just like with the people In that case it's strain is that they will be found out in the west. like that? Why didn't they stay? Were things were comfy? You wonder where they scared, or they chased by. If they were chase, how did they get away, while I think if They pose a gun arm and they all jump out of the car and run up the mountain? or they got out of the car and then had a gun pulled on him and they ran up the mountain. Maybe it is a fact maybe the guns nodded a loaded and ff if the guys running in different directions in a panic who are you going to chase after and are you going to chase after him? Maybe you're disliked okay? Well, that robbery didn't work and you just flee the scene also
the theory is that they could have just scattered to get away from whatever was going on because the window was down and if went off into the woods and how to make their way back to the trail. Maybe they couldn't fit out where the car was answered, just follow that road, but they're going a different way again. I've just assume that you could follow the trail back. Obviously, they survived for some time we're had survived for weeks. Is he not capable of moving, I guess if his feet or so prospect, that he can't walk than he stuck at the trailer but whose take care of him and his. a person capable of literally just following a trail back down the hill submission is why can't I get back to this car they haven't out, they have an escape wire, they eating the food or burning the propane or bird. Anything for warmth and I think that their diminished- cognitive abilities is a part of it
Not only are they a little slow, but thou starting and in freezing cold weather. I think a lot People would have had problems trying to handle the situation I guess in my head again, it's an accident, its were lost, and then people are trying to find their way back to the car. I think some of them made it to the trailer and some of them didn't, because it was too much for them and again, if if you just think about where's, the being frost bitten is bad. They were then what was happening with the other guys in its tracks, terrain. So this is something we bring up. Every time someone gets lost or killed dies. I should say out in the wilderness: it's because if you weren't ready for it it just eggs, one accident and you're done in an this case each of these men had to find a way to survive, really, in the end, the real mystery isn't just. How did they end up?
because that is, I think, an injustice right. That's the biggest mystery by the other mystery is: where did jerry bias. Go because They managed to find everybody else they weren't able to fine Gary Matthias. He was considered the most capable of the five. So I think some people, because they hear that have it in their head that he must have gotten away where I think of it is, I think, he's to try and get help and left we're there, and he didn't make it either. I think myths I just got four their away, then the rest of them to the point where it couldn't find it but we don't have all the answers and even with any theory, come up with theirs snare to that makes you feel not so confident in your theory in this I have a theory, but there still aspects that I can't quite I'm up with an answer for part of this is again me putting myself in that situation,
not in lost just driving to my grandparents years ago and ended up in a town two cities over. I went driving to go to my cousins and ended up in the opposite direction and is because I don't have a good sense of direction. I really don't. I dont use, navigation or gps on my phone, because I just go where I'm going. I I can't put myself in other people choose because I always have a sense of direction. I can ask somebody a which way do I need to go, and they can just point me in the right direction. I drove from kansas city to l a without a map. I just went west, and found my way. I'm just screaming the cars right there go back down the hill, just go back to the car. Why are you doing this and that's why I go for that play, or somebody scared them away from the vehicle, because I just can't read my head around them walking away from the vehicle them getting lost in the woods,
or them driving up this mountain in the first place, I believe that shown scared them. Obviously that wasn't his intention, but this is how I envision this is that showrooms freak them out. I think if somebody was holding them captive, and then you hear this other views called the other car you see this other car and there's somebody screaming for help. While than the captives ur gonna say: ok, everybody shut up, be quiet, that's what I had in my head when I was reading about this. But again it's trying to put yourself in their shoes and a mighty deeds it them out and they might not have had a gun held on at them they might have just been on their own trying to figure out what to do next, one it occurred to me recently view- and I were talking about this case- and we are talking about the window being down in Madrid. His mother said: oh, he wouldn't have left the car like that, but you brought this
a number of times where it's possible. They didn't all leave exactly at the same time and if Madrigal left the car before say someone else did then If someone was left behind with the car to people are left behind the car that weren't madrigal, then maybe they wouldn't role the window backup. But then again here a window being down like that, because they were talking to somebody I e foul play than that spain's it too, so any which way you want to go with this case. It could be any number of things and actually read somewhere with someone was talking about. They were surprised that no one and I'm nothing no one has, but I have yet to see that no one has tried to bring bigfoot or aliens into this. Well, it's it's like the pass story: people ring aliens in this light
in the sky and raise coming down on them and am having radiation burns and what not? We don't have any of that. In this case, all we have is men that appeared to be disoriented scare, or lost or all. Three and again I want to emphasise that. I think this could have happened. Anybody that ended up in there. situation. I dont think you have to be mentally handicapped or low cognitive ability or suffer from schizophrenia to die out there now its nature, and sometimes it's very cruel why? I agree because it was true press and cold and dark, and if on the side of a mountain, if you up in the situation will in today's world you wouldn't and upon on the mountain, hopefully gps would take you.
in the right direction and if you do end up on the side of the mountain, hopefully you still have signal. These situations are fewer and far between. Now it's doesn't happen as much but if you're driving to work and you're driving that same track every day and there's snow on the ground, and you happened to slide off the road and your car turns upside down and you're in a ditch and no one sees you you're die if no One finds you in a day or two and you're stuck underneath your car. So it's all, these good too. where that extra layer of clothing to have an x blanket in your car. Something to that fact. We like to think third lovers during today's episode be sure to go,
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Transcript generated on 2022-08-27.