You might detest bigotry and injustice, but have you done anything to address these problems? There are many reasons we stay silent and inactive when we know we should intervene to defend the rights of others. We look at the psychology underpinning our reluctance to act and the ways in which we can match our moral beliefs with concrete actions.
Featuring James Barr and Dan Hudson, co-hosts of the podcast 'A Gay and a Non-Gay'.
WARNING: This episode talks frankly about discrimination, hate crimes and sex.
For an even deeper dive into the research we talk about in the show visit happinesslab.fm
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
this episode is the last nor currencies in its also been
a difficult one to make
like all our shows. It tries to strike a cautiously hopeful tone because
I do believe that each and every one of us can make positive changes that will make our lives happier, but
said the so it isn't just about how to be happy in her own life. It's about the need to fight.
Justice and the structures around us. The prevent whole groups of people from living happy lives in that
At this episode touches on some tough issues, things like racism and homophobia,
as well as stories about hate crimes. We started work
this episode before the killing of George Void and all
important conversations about anti black violence that have followed, but I hope, you'll still, fight
important evidence based tips on how you can personally fight injustice, including tips. I hope
we especially useful for listeners who are not themselves members of marginalized groups and who want to learn how they can help.
It was Sunday June, twelve, two thousand sixteen right in the middle of pride, much more than
three hundred people had gathered at a latin event at pulse, a gay dance club in Orlando Florida and just before closing time, a gunman walked in
and opened fire forty nine people were murdered in another. Fifty three were wounded
It was one of the deadliest mass shootings on U S, soil and one of the
vicious attacks on algae beauty, Q, people anywhere in the world. It left the global community really after the pulses.
I wouldn't work and everything anyone mentioned at all and oversee
was not in a good place. I meant
that taken a real time that day has had so many queer people and knows anything
James BAR as a comedian, pod, castor, living in London like lots of good
people on the Monday morning after the pulse, shooting Jameson get help parents of sympathy from his coworkers. No one asked how he was doing
and no one even spoke out about the tragedy, and it wasn't it
seven p m at night how
see my Improv comedy rehearsal.
Ass, I walked in my friend, Amanda says: are you ok?
gave me a hog out of nowhere and it really struck me
I was not while no one has asked me that all day today, you're the only person I realized, I might be affected by the other, something it even happened. Everyone else vicious completely
oblivious those coworkers, probably more intending to cause James harm most?
and would probably say they believed in gay rights and, if asked directly, that they were appalled by the pulse attack. But despite all these good intentions, their silence that day sent a different message
That's really triggering she fell, tell effectually back to being
that your mom's house, when you realize you're gay and you don't tell anyone and you like that
Leaving aside the like our going away, I know nosegay if you're a story.
Sis, gender person. Like me, listening to James, you may
member, not being sure what to say when you heard about the pulse tragedy
You may have known that you needed to say something, but you weren't sure what or how unfortunate
None of these good intentions matter to James. At the time. That day, any comment, however awkward, would have been better than silence.
At least ten. I know they see me now, I'm that every person listening to this podcast right now think
themselves as a good person, someone
is committed to justice and Inclusive III, and that you prefer
We agree that society would be happier place if all people are treated equally.
What their sexual gender, racial, religious or ethnic identity, but as yet
two story reveals lots of us feel to act on these Felix, not because we're bad people put off
because we're not sure how, if we
really want our societies to be happier. We need to actively counter them.
The tree and violence that affects so many identities on a near daily basis, but changing
deep, seated structures that cause all this injustice is gonna, taken all hands on deck approach, which raises an import
Why do well intentioned people who believe injustice often do nothing other than
eyes at the mind that prevent good people from speaking up and taking action, and if so, how can we deal with
it's done parts of our psychology, so that we can create
happier and more just world.
Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But one of our minds are wrong. What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from a really make us happy? The good news is the understanding the science of the mining complaint us all back in the right direction. Here, listen
to the doktor Mars.
A lot of people, I myself included, believe in diversity, Believin inclusion or even equity like there is no doubt that our sincere beliefs. Those believes, however, do not in any way change systems. Are structures were biases. All they do is just set as believes this is dollar jug and then, why you, professor, and
there of the person. You mean to be how good people fight by us
go from believing something to building something to go from the believed,
action. We have to build some skills. We,
some tools dolly argues that each of us
to go from being a believer to becoming what she calls a builder, some one who takes an active role, Dolly's builder
similar to what historian and American University professor Ibrahim Candy has called becoming an antiracist the ideas that it's not enough
to simply not believe in bigoted stuff or not be racist ourselves? We need to honestly confront all the
Sometimes we ve internalized so
we by growing up in an unjust society. The problem:
Is it our lying minds? Make it super hard to see all the structural inequalities around us, especially if we're lucky enough not to experience that oppression directly
the little kids play with those spy ink pen stipends. Where were they re? You don't see anything and then there's a little blue ultra violet type life, and then you can see what's written
you do that much work to see the systemic stuff, unless your experiencing directly
I didn't we are experiencing it directly. You don't see it, but you have got to do the work of finding ultra violet light shining it and actively looking for it
Dolly, has had to shine that same light on her own biases as a street.
Sis gender woman of indian descent. She knows what it's like to expire
its discrimination based on her ethnicity, but she also wrecking
as if that her sexuality, race, able bodied status and education level have given her a whole host of amazing privileges,
writing the person you mean to be was her way of coming to terms with all her own injustice blind spots. One of the reasons I
Dolly spoke. So much is because she super honest about the fact that she is not perfect and that
he too needs to put in work to become a builder unrest,
the first, and I always want to do the right thing in an honorary ones, feelings and olive conflict. Like all these things, will
pull me into doing less, not more, ironically enough. This earth
to be seen as not being prejudiced can make us do stuff, that's pretty much the opposite,
we are less likely to reach out, because we think we might say this wrong thing. We are,
less likely to taken action in order to call the legislator or two,
introduce ourselves to a neighbour or to try to say someone's name. We don't know how to pronounce there's even work. Suggestion
that our worries about seeming prejudice take up a lot of mental bandwidth,
My colleague at Yale, Jennifer, Richardson and Princeton
colleges, Nicole, Shelton had white subjects chat,
A controversial issue with either a white or black stranger afterwards, participants did a tough attention task known as this
test in which you read the names of colours as quickly as you can, despite the words being printed in the wrong colored fought
it's actually pretty hard to read. B. L, you e, when its printed in yellow, but richest an inch,
and found that white subjects did significantly worse on that struck test. After talking to a black person, the recent
we concluded that subjects left these interracial interactions, feeling more com
notably and emotionally drained, then, if they choose
with some one of the same race and later were.
Enriches. His lab shows that white subjects have an even more pronounced performance dip when their remit
Did you try and not seem racists during the interaction our minds go through a hole
host a mental gymnastics when our
of images, a decent person is threatened. It's what psychologists
motivated reasoning and the
process and motivated reasoning can sometimes gets so extreme that we even lie to ourselves and reinvent our past. Let's do a little quiz show
I want you to rate how much you agree with the following statement from you
I strongly disagree to seven. I strongly agree ready. How much do you agree with this statement? My life has been full of hardships got your answer. Great
But we actually, I forgot- I wanted to remind you of something before you answer the question. Please
remember that most social scientists agree that even today, why me?
can enjoy many privileges that black Americans do? Not
wait. Americans are advantaged in the domains of academics, housing, healthcare, jobs and more compared to black Americans. Sorry back to the question:
from one. I strongly disagree to seven
strongly agree how much
you agree with this statement. My life has been full of hardships.
Psychologists, Taylor, Philips and Brian Lowry, pose this
in question to a group of white participants with half the sub
ex first hearing that statement about race that I just read to you. You probably think that once
Subjects were reminded of the greater obstacles that people of color face that they be Leslie
wait a claim that their own life had been filled with hardships, but in fact, Phillips
now. We found the exact opposite pattern.
On average white people said their life was significantly harder when they were reminded of their racial privilege. Philips allow
came up with a rather catchy name for the striking example of motivated raising bar
from the musical any they called it. The hard, not life, not fight
when we think of
all the unseen gifts we get just from existing as non marginalize person, when we realise that all the
stuff in our life would probably be worse if we weren't white or street, or sis gendered or able, bodied or middle class that can make us feel kind of bad like we got
some benefit that wasn't really fair, even if we didn't intend to rather than experience all this discomfort our minds try to cook
facts. We search our memory banks for the kinds of hardships that my
our own life look less easy and therefore less privilege relative to marginalize person.
Despite writing an entire book on fighting injustice, Dolly
first to admit that it's easy to fall under the sway of motivated reasoning, rational,
Dolly knows that she's had a whole host of life experiences that other people were lucky enough to have.
When I say I have privilege,
not that I haven't worked super hard for things, that
I haven't had some really serious challenges in my life and yet, if
one says to me: like you know you just
to fancy schools, we will hold on you now. I can feel my blood
boiling in that moment that that is an example. What it looks like to deny privilege, but Dolly his founded, there
the way to stop all the Mental Gymnastics daily decent people down this, not so good path. The solution involves dropping the fiction. There were good people,
The first place I've been behind this campaign to get people to let go of being a good person and strive and said to be a goodish person
we learn what it means to be good guiche when the happiness
returns. In a moment,
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Damn dotcom, slash happiness, that's linked in dot, com, slash happiness terms and conditions apply. I welcome. Welcome along listeners was for the food authority with things about it.
He's gonna grief. It was through other welcome listeners. James BAR and Dan Hudson are the dual behind the award: winning algae, be tissue, podcast, a gay and not gay. Should we countries blaming
dad's girlfriend is my is one of my best friend's little sit down girlfriend, so it's kind of awkward because whenever he finds me, are we not.
About replaces needs to re other, no, never
what do you mean ready before long?
in two thousand fifteen most of James is
and where women or gay men Dan, who is the shows titles
Just as a non gay. Wasn't the sort of pay
and the James usually hung out with
I wasn't really interested in guys unless I was gonna have their number. My fine and obviously down was not likely to be in my phone
Dan loves metal, music and he can be quite angry. Sometimes it's gotta, be it's not like that. You know not gay, but I think I'm quite pham and dance very mask because with their different identities and expand
answers. Working together on the podcast met bridging a whole host of tricky issues. Where the beginning, I really
gonna, be there. Why do I want to talk to a stray guy? Why do I have to sit here
and educate someone and explain what is like just ordering a drink at the bar and being terrified. The
men will now, I'm guy, why don't?
tell him like how scary is old hands with a boyfriend walking down the street, and I just I guess I felt like happy in my bubble of gay friends and when I sat down with Dan men had to
aim all the things that I've ever ready said out loud before it, it was. It was exhausting. Part of the exhaustion comes from the fact that their podcast doesn't shy away from here.
Virtual topics has so far. Not all of all these programmes do not offer with any of the things that are largely with our other lives most of Europe,
those are not safe for work.
Because no aspect of James is gay. Sex life is off limits Dan.
Often in the position of asking the coolest question that many stray people have answering wore a dish was was pretty awkward so down. I spent a long time talking about the ins and outs of eight or cleaning and how that works, and also damage is being so confused.
By the entire thing, like you do. What pipe lasting conversations like these have turned James and Dan into L, GB, Dickie champions and unlikely friends. Their shared laughter has given them the trust needed to talk.
Even more sensitive topics. Things like
HIV, the you
mental health challenges faced by the algae tissue community and the unjust
send violence against queer people
straight Sis gender people, often to see. If a modest, I feel glad that we have all those conversations, because it will hopefully educate other people listening. So they don't have to have the same kind.
Patients den admits that he hadn't thought much about algae, be two key issues before starting the podcast. His learning curve has been steep. We
a guy on unknown guy, because we had to call it something. You hated that I wouldn't you,
cause you don't wanna, be reading wanna be marginalized as unknown gay person, which was the hysterical to me, because why should I have to be a gay person and now
I think I'm proud of being a game or who have I've done. Your kind of I mean
proud will be the wrong word, because we're going down a straight pride territory, but you are happy to
for yourself a non gay.
What I mean is what is it like? That is why I am since composting this podcast dance had dynamic.
A lot of the moral identity threat. They comes
recognizing his non gay privilege, but
like other straight people. Dance had to deal with all that discomfort with thousands of people listening
Dance been amazing. He's he's taken a lot of that on board, and maybe I think you ve helped me
His realise this now maybe the way down as a good allies, because he's awkward he's awkward about asking these questions is awkward about learning and speaking up for gay people. He feels
could a maybe as an ally for any mortal eyes music. Your men to just feel a bit awkward to kind of understand it.
So you're saying and doing the right things.
James- is onto something important here, because this
they had that the path to becoming a better ally often involves embracing just the awkwardness. It comes from accepting that you're, probably going to school
as psychologist, Dolly Chug explains its not a matter of
if a non by July person is going to do or say something dumb, but when we are going to screw up period, we are.
And when we mess up we need to.
Mediately own the harm we ve caused, first of all,
I am sorry,
It's not! I am sorry if you were offended. Sorry, if I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry. If you took the way, those are all not what we want to say,
it is. I am sorry I have done harm. I have messed up. I'm going
Did you better? I'm going to learn that commitment to life
our mistakes and do better in the future is the first step to accepting
that we're not a good person? Yet that's why
He wants us to strive instead to be good, ish people and by goodish
I'm not saying it's like, not quite good enough for lower
Andrea than good. I'm actually arguing is quite opposite them at a higher standard. To someone who never assumes they're good
He said I'm always looking for ways in which I could learn or what, where my blind spots are or where I can notice something I might have missed or a different perspective. It's obvious
being silly. Mistakes is necessary for learning almost anything in life, but were off
and super resistant to believing that we can improve
something renown, Stamford psychologist, curled whack has called having a fixed mindset. Dolly thinks this rigid, fixed mindset. Thinking is
even more pronounced in cases that involve our moral identities. I'm a good person or not. There's no
work in progress in there and what we need
from the mindset. Research is that when you are
fix mindset. You make a mistake. Your brain activation actually goes down. You actually withdraw attention from the mistake why this was no point. Looking to state your affixed, you're not gonna, grow
become better allies? We all need to switch to a different mindset. The growth mine
that is the one where, of course, we still care deeply about doing the right thing and being a good person, but we acknowledge that it's going to take a lot of work in the states to get their people with a growth mindset.
Are willing to embrace harder and harder learning challenges they even
for more neural resources to paying attention to their mistakes. Why doesn't
take means. I have an opportunity to better I'm mortified, but I can get better. The idea is to own it to say it and to act on it
Carol, Dweck, along with her Stanford colleague, Gmail Zaki,
have shown that our mindsets can have a significant impact on how we are
chart identity challenges. They found that way, participants with growth mindset.
More time. Actually listening to a black person describe personal challenges, then wait subjects with a fixed might set. The good news is that
it's pretty easy to develop a growth mindset.
It can be as easy as reminding yourself that you can change with a simple three letter word yet as in
not a good person yet, but I can be if I put in some work,
The simple act of reminding ourselves we can change Kevin huge
act on our willingness to engage with tough racial situations on our own
stakes when they inevitably come up and put in
work to make amends and do better in the future a growth.
Set, can also help us break through the discomfort that often comes with step
as an ally, to fight the injustice around us.
Something non. Gay podcast or Dan Hudson had to learn first hand
so I've read an article four the match.
Newspaper which is the british equivalent of like USA today
Two further changes. I days you said you write ask about what is like me and I to those
we see GDP and also well what? If I'm not one like
Deciding I am on prepping the article
was a tremendous amount of work for Dan and he spent yet
higher time fighting to keep the old fixed mindset at bay.
God- I really want to get this right and make the point correctly
these things about this. I can't do this. This is light to two difficult. In the end,
dear, was able to see the difficulty as a way to learn, rather than a reason to run away the result,
was a powerful article entitled I'm a white middle.
Last Sis straight mail in
is how I learned to be an l, GB tissue plus ally. It was one of the first
times Dan had publicly applied the word ally to himself. It's it's a tricky words. Beaches James refers to me as an ally. That's great! It's one of those words the thing if you're gonna declare yourself as one you ve read,
got to be let manning the barricades you ve really got be fighting for that cause all day and every day I was right and necessary am all that was or or maybe should be. I think, and am I
wrong. Dan call me out: that's because you're a straight says why, guy with all the private,
So too you having to stand up for anything feels may be insincere because it's not his cause, but his whether article start is. I was fed up of constantly having to stand up for gay people all the time and I just felt
maybe it was time, a straight person did it because does any so much gay
ways we can make an sometimes stripy.
I just gonna ignore that. Yet again,
Names is right here.
Not only is it morally wrong to always leave marginalized groups with the burden of speaking out, but the science
as is often more effective for a non marginalized person to point out bigotry.
Absolutely when we're not from the targeted group have more influence in standing than we assume. We don't feel that way in the moment, but the data is really convincing. One study found
white people who called someone out for using a racist stereotype, are judged less negatively than a black person
Who does exactly the same thing using exactly the same words and tone the same
but he found that the offender feels more guilty and is more likely.
You apologize if a white person steps in another study,
white participants, videos in which a waiver black person called someone out for racist comments. Participants were
were persuaded by the argument and thought the
action was less rude. When a white person was a one doing the calling out Dolly's book christen this phenomenon, ordinary per
ledge we're not speaking. Instead of them were not centering ourselves over then. This is not about our feelings. You know when they make.
To us, because it might come,
ass a little more easily. We amplify
They were saying we pass it back. We create the space for them to be heard, and then step aside
are you nervous? My dance has gone
knowing when to use his ordinary privilege, like that
the door or making a show for the BBC
openly going into a room where a man is going to judge me for being guy? And I don't wanna be judged
and I warn you. The memory of this incident still make stand so angry that he can't help workers curse but I'll. Let James set the scene. We did a documentary by gay conversion therapy and we both sat there in front of this guy
that performs this pseudoscience on people, and that was really tough. I want to talk about your journey and how are you
To this, I wanted to move away from the homosexual feelings. I
experience. Why did you want to stop those feelings,
If you don't, I was not comfortable with them. I got
were annoyed by the gate, imagine die than change. Did I was living that this man could come out this shit basically and the plant impressionable people from across
UK would put forward. It was amazing having down that's her, take over the MIKE and and shouted guy down and tell him he's wrong.
From a kind of non emotional place. Because of easy for me to do that, some Lama, Roar Dan, can come out at different.
The conversations Jameson Dan have had about the importance of being an ally of change both of them and have high
I'm step into social justice issues. Beyond the domain of queer rights.
Being white in the summer of twenty Twenty has given both of them in ordinary privilege that they can used to speak out against anti black violence. Daylight both went to the bar lives matter protest in London, and I really felt we needed to be there because you can be nervous and uncomfortable and think it's not. Your issue is not your plight, but as a gay person, I know that I need allies, and so I wanted to be there as an ally, and there was a banner that setting all, like usual white privilege, to end. Why privilege- and I think, if anything throughout black lives matter
it's that silence equals death and that we need to stand up and say something and women to feel uncomfortable right. If we want to live in a society that safe and fair for all people, then each of
one of us needs to embrace a bit more discomfort marginalized groups
I don't really have a choice about this, therefore, to be uncomfortable all the time
but the research shows that individuals from non marginalized identities need to embrace their fair share too. If we ever gonna
the kind of world we want to live in when we returned from the break. We all see the power of this
discomfort embracing approach. We'll talk
was straightway ally who spent the last seventy years feeling actively uncomfortable in the fight for racial justice.
Neither embracing the discomfort that comes with this work beyond simply
the right thing to do can also prove and unexpected path to finding purpose and achieving happiness. The happiness laugh, but the right back. We,
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And Goldman Sachs.
I was five years old being made
in its I'll, go Yonkers New York and worked out
my bedroom window one afternoon. So my father's image swing from a tree with people under the tree, picketing Richard low
was introduced to the discomfort that comes from being a why ally very early on in life, the crew.
Was hanging in effigy of his dad. Some reports say they even set fire to
I had no idea what it was about. Accepting
They were angry Richards, father, Joe logic was head. Coach of the New York net
He had just signed Nat Sweetwater Clifton, one of the first
african american players in the NBA
that his signing was wildly unpopular and nineteen. Fifty would be an understatement.
And for several years after that, I pick up the extension for our house. My dad not knowing I was listening and it was racial epithets after racial up with them
being hurled at him before coaching for the next
was a superstar in his own way and then
Jeanne twenties. He played centre for the fabled original Celtics back then basketball with segregated but Joe,
team chose to play. Games against the New York rests the best african american team of the day,
there were race riots that took place during the aim. People stormed the court to attack the players
Dixon IRAN's literally took the cord with knives act in their stocks to defend
send themselves defend themselves if there were attacked by by angry fans as the two teams.
Novel, the country Richards
I saw the racism that the rents faced almost daily. The Celtic stayed in fancy hotels, the
and were allowed to enter the Celtics
he wherever they wanted, but the rents would really get served,
There were even several occasions when white cashiers refused upon gas for the rents bus, Joe decided he wanted.
Do something more than just play on the core alongside the rents, so he developed and opening game tradition that drew even more fire from the fans
dead and his opposing centre. Tarzan Cooper would not shake hands like people do at sporting events normally, but would actually embrace each other and sometimes kissed each other, because they were
fans in those stands to understand that this game,
more than a great Hall of Fame basketball game. It was about with their vision, was that American could someday become as a team.
Richard seem set on a career on the court. Just like his dad. I want
nothing more than to be an mba player
sixty two on eighth grade and one of the tools players in the city and I was heavily recruited. Richard was accepted into a prestigious basketball camp. It was there
saw the racism his father had witnessed a generation before was still being directed at players of color
there were five other white guys in a black guy at the camp, and one of the white guys was throwing me unworthy like that for the first three days until I finally challenged in the kidnapped Richard outcome, but as the site
The ordinary privilege might suggest Richard thing
this challenge did at least help to prevent further racist incidents. He also
well to lifelong friendship with the black player, he helped a man who would lie
their become the basketball legend. We know today as Karim Abdul Jabbar,
is a fifteen year old white. Did I suddenly had a young african american lens with which I could see racism in America and what are we doing to me
he's a color and I decided as a fifteen year old, but I was
the rest of my life working in the area of civil rights. Richard is now a professor
author and human rights activist some one.
He double a recently christened the racial conscience of sports. He campaigned for you
in support of the Anti Apartheid movement and work to ban south african teams
from participating in international sports I've. Let me
for the first time in my life. I've done something worthwhile.
It was working late. In my college office there was a knock on the door, one thousand and forty five, and I just assumed it was a campus security. When I open the door instead of those two men wearing stocking Nest,
men beat Richard Unconscious, causing extensive
me and liver damage, as well as a hernia and a concussion, they also
The inward into his stomach, with a pair of officers
laying in the hospital that night, I knew that I was gonna, spend the rest of my life using a sports platform.
To address, but I thought at that time was just can be racism, but all social justice issues. I felt that it failed
people are going to the light they did to try to stop my father twenty eight years before it's like they just going to try to stop me that night, but they must have
While we were having an impact on.
Relations in the United States, but they didn't want to see. Even
the beating, stiffened Richards resolve
never allowed the ordeal to undermine the humility that he argues. All allies need to maintain in the fight for justice
time the attack peoples
to me? Well now you must understand what it's like to be black, and I said I don't
We stand what it's like to be black at any given point I could have.
Away from the civil rights movement and just rejoined that White Middle Class war privileges that we have and not faced with a person of color visas every day when they go out of their house,
This is one of the reasons Richard is so passionate that more allies need to step up, especially
when it comes to the fight against anti black violence,
Everybody can be on the front lines, but everybody's gotta get off the sidelines. Are you ve got
get involved in some way. It might be picking whatever the issue is. You want to be part of read about it, study and understand it find an organization, that's doing something about it, volunteer for it and
you know, maybe then you might become emboldened after that to do more, but at least get involved with something,
and we ve had hundreds of years of oppression in the United States that have created. What would you
with now and it's gonna take some time in and strong struggle whenever an on board of everybody to it.
Ass? Those issues buddy
After reading and listening and volunteering, don't
attempted to get a little performative and show
What awoke good person you are to be a better ally. We need
refrain from the so called cookie seeking behaviour, as activist refer to it. Right
seeking doesn't help and worse it can
yet again create more emotional labour for the group, your allegedly trying to help
this- has to be a self. Was that I mean it can be a rewarding act for you. You know everything that I've been involved with. I feel incredibly rewarded by, but I didn't get involved to get rewarded and I think that that's what people
need to understand, and I think most people get it when you hear it in those terms, simply put ally.
It's not about you, caring about
justice means you ve gotta, be willing to do the work without a cookie at the end from the group you're trying to help, but this time
I mean the ally ship was without it, sweet rewards the Good NEWS,
Richard has seen first hand is that pudding
all this hard work is worth it in the end, not just for fixing society, but also for us.
Own personal sense of meaning, and while being I have
an incredibly happy life. There
Fifthly, moments in my life that were difficult to get through.
But those moments all may be stronger in the end and being stronger, makes me happier
as we discuss so often and happiness lab doing.
For others, makes us feel good, often in profits.
Sound and long lasting ways, we don't even realize doing good for the world, also prove
it is with greater emotional resilience, which I saw first hand talking to Richard, because
despite all the anger and division we ve seen in twenty twenty Richard is brimming with her
I remember a nineteen seventy seven I was in Luanda Zambia with
a person who was my mentor, his name was George Hauser and he had found the anti Apartheid movement. I colonial moving, the United States- and, I said George: do you think that guinea Bizarre Angola, Mozambique Namibia,
What was then Rhodesia and South Africa will be free in our lifetime and he said rich. I feel something different. I feel that there's gonna be change less than twenty years later.
Richard stood on the steps of the union building in South Africa and wash
fundamental, a sworn in as president. If that man, who had been a political prisoner and must raise the system of government on the face of the earth in the second half of the twentyth century, could become
president than anything, and everything is passed
but if we put our minds to it, as he said,
the top of the show making
Zeppa, so it has been particularly tough for me,
by racial woman, but I'm also why
These are often in a unique position
of seeing some of the anti black racism that my friends and colleagues experience all the time, whilst
we'll tediously, having the realisation that my skin color protect me from most of it,
don't always realise the incredible privilege that comes with all that
responsibility. I have to be an ally to all identities that are facing injustice while working
This episode, I swear
entire time worried. If I'm using the right language
Choosing the right guests were if I've done that
ass job, I could in raising these issues. None of this was fun or comfortable, but its exam
We, the sort of discomfort that marginalized people and those that don't have my skin privilege go through all the time they don't get to avoid it
though, honestly, neither should I plus the
Science of ally ship suggests that all the discomfort I'm experiencing will ultimately make me happier because its nest
for becoming the antiracist builder that I really want to be that's all
worth validating that all this is really hard. But there's no time like the present
Each of us is willing to intentionally take on a bit more discomfort to do our part two
systems of injustice than we might be able to build a world that brings genuine happiness to all people
thanks. So much for joining me for this second season of happiness,
its taught, you knew tips you can use to make yourself and our world a little bit happier
The happiness lab is current produced by Ryan Daily. Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring mixing in mastering by Evan Veolan PETE, none
help with production. Joseph Redman check our thanks and our editing was done by Sophie Crane Mckibben special thanks to meal the Bell, Carlini Glory, Heather, Fain, Julia Barton, Maggie Taylor, Maya Caning, Jacob Weisberger and my agent and David
the happiness lab is brought to you by Pushkin industries, and me doctor lorries enters the killing of George, for it has triggered some important by hard core.
Relations about anti black violence, many of my listeners, especially those in the black community, are experiencing a lot of grief, anchor and exhaustion. I've received tons of requests for information.
About how we can all protect our while being during this awful time we're hoping to put together a few bonus episodes about all these issues,
but in the meantime I wanted to share some recommendations of other podcast that are tackling these important topics. So ass
my listeners, friends in twitter followers to recommend some specifically podcast,
dealing with mental health issues for people of color. My goal was to pass the MIKE to all the black voices that are doing some great work on this topic.
Some of the suggestions and all shows that I already knew and loved and PR codes
and it's been a minute were mentioned alive, as was the amazing
History series sixteen nineteen from many new times your house,
and pod save the people were also popular choices.
But there are many shows that were totally new for me, therapy for black girls with doktor joy, hardened Bradford comes out of it Lana Joyous awesome and she tackles all the hard topics
her show from color is to racial trauma to the question of how to talk to kids about race,
was also told the check out the hell, a black podcast. Once I took a look,
honestly didn't know, hide missed it before their episodes on the Black trans community, celebrity performative outrage, the prison industrial complex and how anti blackness in aunt, I feel
Agnes go hand in hand. I also learned about one of my favorite new recent podcast episodes. Ever this one came from our mental health minute they just
A really important episode called breathing in the mists of racism. Phd cycle.
Just re and see tee breakdown. The real toll that chronic stress and fear have
it on the minds and bodies of black people. It's really really worth Ellison.
Hope these resources will help you get through this tough time, and I hope you can
back to the happiness lab for a bonus episode soon.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-29.