Feeling you belong to a group can be great - but it also has a darker side, leading us down an unhappy path of hatred and violence towards people with different identities and backgrounds.
Dr Laurie Santos talks to Mina Cikara - whose homeland descended into a bloody civil war - and Jamil Zaki about how we can fight hatred with empathy, kindness and difficult conversations.
(Deep canvassing clips courtesy of The Leadership Lab https://leadership-lab.org/ at the Los Angeles LGBT Center.)
For an even deeper dive into the research we talk about in the show visit happinesslab.fm
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pushkin hello happiness, lab listeners. There is a lot of news being thrown at US today and its affecting our lies more directly nowadays than any of us can remember. Axioms is the media company. The helps you deal with all of this
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I urge you to listen tomorrow and the next day and well you get the picture. It's like taking a sea at the smartest breakfast table in the world. You can find acts today on Apple Spotify or ever you get your podcast Ratu by axioms and Pushkin industries before you begin to enjoy this episode happiness that I wanted to checking about how this and other seas into episodes relate to the
the good times, were all facing. My team and I started work on these episodes long before many of us had heard of covert nineteen and before the killing of George Void and all the overdue conversations about anti black violence that have followed his death. The events of twenty twenty have changed. All of our lives bring many people, especially those in the black community, a lot of pain, anger and grief. We debated whether to scrap this whole season completely, but decided to move forward with a few important changes.
On the team claims to have all the answers for the huge problems facing us right now, but our goal is to offer as many science based tips as we can to increase your happiness and what is surely still a challenging time
I'm not a groupie person really at all. I don't really care about sports. I don't really care about teams. I did not care
baseball at all. I really know it was only there cuz. I was so smitten with him mean that your car is telling me about an early date. She had with her husband, Carrie Carrie is an avid Boston Red Sox fan, so they decided to check out a game against. The Sox is arch, rivals the Yankees, and they did so and then
territory, Yankee Stadium. He is a little bit risk seeking and so
he decided to wear his red Sox had to this game. Even just getting off at the subway station was already a bunch of jokes
ribbing and look at this guy and what was really in
Turning to me, though, was that it seem very good hearted at first right. It was just sort of people enacting the script.
Is the game were on the score? Got closer and closer and the entire stadium grew tents, the banter stop being playful and carry wasn't reacting. Well, though, it somewhere,
I decided I wouldn't take the hat from him, because I don't want him to get into a fit right here.
So I didn't have anywhere to put this hot, so I put it on my own head thinking. I'm not a fan of.
Their team. I really couldn't care less about this. No one's gonna talk to me. No one's going to say anything
and I couldn't have been more wrong about that assumption, so the second I put on the hat people started, calling me names. They started telling me about my mother. They started saying all manner of horrible things about me, but there was a
Assumption Minos wrong about. She thought if she got taunted it wouldn't bother
within minutes of putting on that Red Sox CAP Mina found her
screen at Yankee fans in the seats all around her, my husband, actually
to put himself between me and the other guy, and this experience gave me this incredible insight, which was that
Virtue of marking myself. As a member of red Sox nation, I started to get treated that way,
I want to start you to receive that treatment. I started to react on behalf of red Sox nation mean ahead and winningly fallen prey to some of the most dangerous forces and all of human nature are intergroup bias
So it's that shift. That happens when you approach an idea or and interaction not through the lens of me and you, but rather
through the lens of us and them as human.
We naturally divide the world into end groups and out groups, and not just on sports fields. We also do so across political, ethnic group,
shall national and ideological lines as well. The bonding we get from being part of a group can sometimes feel good. It can make us feel connected like where part of something bigger than ourselves, but our partisan urges can also cause us to feel pretty miserable. They can steal opportunities to make meaningful connections with people who are different.
Ass. They can make us feel angry at the other side and causes to engage a nasty, sometimes even violent behaviors and our tendency towards us versus them thinking
has even led to much worse outcomes than a dip in our personal happiness, these urgent
hinder important progress in politics. They can fuel
lethal racist violence, deadly ethnic, complex and some of the worst atrocities human history has ever seen by some cow
over two hundred million civilians, not soldiers. Civilians perished in the last century as a result of large scale group,
so in a time when our society is healing more divided than ever. What can we do to avoid?
all the anger and bitterness. What can we do to fight the intergroup biased?
is that led to so much unhappiness. These are the very very hard,
shoes that will try to tackle scientifically in and seasons,
two episodes of the happiness lab.
A minds, are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what, if our minds, are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from all really make us happy? The good news
is the understanding. The science of the mind complaint is all back in the right direction. Here, listen
to the happiness, love the doktor lorries centres.
We left me a story with her screaming uncontrollably having too
restrained by her boyfriend from squaring off with people she'd, never met her passions in
named by a game. She had zero interest and just hours before it may sound crazy that one little red Sox hat could cause all that trouble, but yeah
it. One hundred percent happened and,
Actually, the impetus for dissertation Mina is now
Sesar of psychology, a Harvard University she's become a world
spur on the neural underpinnings of our intergroup biases, as we got to talking
I learned that Minos Unfortunate foray into red Sox Vandam wasn't the first time she had seen the dark side of our us versus them thinking,
my dad is serbian, my mom is bosnian. My entire families from former Yugoslavia Mina her parents move to the United States in the nineteen eighties or her extended family state and former.
Slovenia, as her homeland, descended into bloody civil war. You know
I would hear these harrowing stories of people who had
neighbors for decades who had raise their children together, they had been
friends. They had been each other's weddings and basically, when things took a turn politically, they turned on each other
and murdered one another or or tried to murder one another, and this was real
I mean horrifying, but also really fascinating to me in part, because whatever
feel to me was how quickly these dynamics can change. The speed with which our group instincts can lead to all our violence is especially shocking because, generally speaking, human really don't like doing bad things to one another.
Worry, did you punch? Somebody today
not by somebody today has been a good day. Have you
genuine in the last month. No, in fact,.
Ok how about the last year? Actually now
I'm gonna non puncher most the time yeah rate, and what's really
interesting about this? Is that there seem to be very strong moral prohibition,
against harm the guide, most people's behaviour, most of the time decades in decades of psychological risk,
show that we really don't like doing mean stuff what
study by the neuroscientist Molly Crockett found that participants were more reluctant to administer and electric shock to a stranger
then they weren't a shock themselves. Harvard psychologist fiery. Cushman found that people even yet
we see when they pretend to harm other people he had. His subjects pointed
my gun in someone's, face or smashed the sky.
A realistic, looking plastic baby Cushman found the
No people knew these mean actions or fake they still
a strong physiological reaction to doing them. They had an increased heart rate and other bodily signs of arousal
participants showed these physiological reactions more when performing the fake action
watching a similar action being performed by somebody else. We just hate doing mean stuff, and yet
Free day. We see videos of people doing violent things to strangers, who ve done them no harm. That's this puzzle in what it suggests that there had to be certain preconditions are certain factors in place in order for people to overcome this aversion to harm Mina has spent the last decades studying what leads people down this awful road towards actively wanting to hurt members of other groups she's,
now that the first step is what psychologists have christened the intergroup empathy gap. Normally, we feel sad when others are sad and a bit of empathic pain when others get hurt, but not always it wouldn't make sense for us to empathize with all people all the time right. If we really felt the weight of every person in the world
We never get out of bed, and it turns out that more and more evidence indicates that these failures of empathy are particularly likely when targets are socially distant. So when they belong to other social or ethnic groups, TAT
Studies show that we literally dont experience the pain of our group members. The same,
we do for people in our own group. There is evidence, for example, that white doctors are less likely to prescribe pain medication to their black patience and even when such pain producers are prescribed there given in lower quantities, are indifference to other groups, pain mean that even doctors can inadvertently cause people who are unlike them to suffer
more than is necessary, but an absence of empathy still doesn't mean that were cool with knowingly causing bad things to happen to other people. To do that, we need to take the next troubling step on that dangerous intergroup path, one that summed up by a german word schadenfreude. I literally harm joy, shot of further really specifically referred to
militias pleasure that people feel when they see another person suffering oftentimes. If you just don't like someone, if you perceive that someone has acted and unjust
way if their undeserving or, if you envy them that these were, would all be precursors for feeling pleasure when you saw that person suffer me for
Jane, but Mina wanted to know a schadenfreude. I could also be at the root of between group conflict. To would it be enough just to know that someone came from a different group in order to be able to engender this kind of aggressive, malicious pleasure
human history has shown us that it surprisingly easy to get people to feel schadenfreude towards our group. Members sports is as great microcosm in which studies dynamics, because
people not only feel allowed but embolden to say really horrible things empower the out group. So what we realize if we could just tap into individuals who identified as sports fans,
b. We could get some honest responding when we just ask them. How good does it make you feel to see this bad thing happen to these other folks, Mina recruited, of course, red Sox in Yankees hands. She stuck them inside a brain scanner and showed them cartoon versions of baseball plays involving lots of different teams,
but on the critical trials the ones Minos really interested in, they got to watch good and bad things happen to their rivals. What we found was,
watching your rival fail, engaged several different, bring me
but the only one that was associated with just how much pleasure participants said that they felt was this region called eventual straight up
the eventual Straight M, is part of our brains, reward circuit, but this region,
then just register hey that events have really good. It's also critically involved in learning
that means that when the eventual stratum is activated, it helps us decide how we personally should behave in the future
note when there's a surprising positive event in the environment and says: ok, let's come back to taking action that brought that event about, because that's gonna be the thing there's going to be rewarding in the future means ready.
Expands, were starting to make a mental connection between that great
I'm of feeling and the possibility that they good use their own personal behaviors to cause that nice feeling again, perhaps by actively harming someone else. Those participants who exhibited that much more ventral straddle activation in response to watching their rival fail or the same people who told me two weeks later that they would be that much more likely to hack all hit an insult arrival fan so
not for me established this suggestion link between the sort of pleasure of watching our group failure
or harm and potentially the likelihood that it was related to your own desire to become the agent of harm in other circumstances,
and these awful dynamics don't use player on sports fields. The same processes are at least partially at work in setting
where people engage in more large scale, violence think ethnic cleansing like mean as family experience in Yugoslavia,
or hate crimes against marginalized groups
or the long legacy of lethal violence that law enforcement personnel have inflicted on black people and United States, the
says he's Mina has observed her baseball fence likely can,
due to the many acts of racist violence, we see in the news shockingly often, especially in cases where the
structural features in place to help in our sense of competition and increase our fear of the other side now
standing the processes that lead to these violent acts, of course, doesn't excuse them. I want to be
we're clear on that point. But Minos work is incredibly important here because it shows
just how easily situational and structural factors can lead. Other
is non violent people towards brutal actions
minister, most striking thing about shouting for it. It is not that it happens, but how quickly we can shift from empathy or indifference to taking pleasure and other people's pains and that there are cases in which our group harm appears to be driven by it.
Just the sheer hedonic benefit. It just feels good, and I find that totally fascinating. Another lots and lots of structural
changes needed to stop the large scale intergroup. Violence we see all over the world, but means work suggests that we might
so be able to intervene, psychologically
de currently, some parts of these often lethal downward cycles and, as is often the case in the happiness lab part of the solution, might involve recognising the mistakes our minds,
king all the time I ve been talking a lot about how competition is doing. Quite a bit of work in these contexts rate and I think that a huge part of conflict escalation is actually a mistake that we make an intergroup context, which is that we don't deal with the person in front of us inside
What we are doing is we're dealing with some idea, some models, some stereotype of who they are when we get back from the brink
will examine how we can turn off our intergroup empathy gap
and do so in a way that cannot only make us happier but also holds the promise of helping us to make society a kinder unless polarized place, the happiness on will be right back. There are many paths to finding a family story.
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Oh, am dot com, slash lorry, I'm very worried. I think there are lots of trends that are pushing us away from what is really are
natural state, which is to be interconnected with each other. That said, I'm not fatalistic ray. I think that there are things we can do,
the push back. This. My friend, you meals, a professor of psychology,
at Stanford University. Jimmy had just right,
an important new book called the war for kindness building empathy and a fractured world that used to be called choosing apathy, which now, as the title of the chapters I started, writing it in twenty. Fifty
and I dont know around late twenty.
Sixteen early twenty seventeen, I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but something changed in a in our culture. I felt like
we're getting crueler
and less connected, and
People were getting
exhausted, with trying to connect with each other and really
bracing social division. In a way that I haven't seen it my adult life, I feel
does being a pollyanna. Just writing this kind of
positive, hey. You know you can choose empathy too. When all around me, it seemed like this giant
your fire people just hated each other,
more than ever, and it fell to me like I needed in one
to acknowledge that to be empathic to choose empathy
Is a radical choice in today's culture? It is a fight against other forces that are pushing us in the opposite direction. Jimmy wants us to get pissed off at the current polarize state of society and to take up arms for coming back.
But his. Why doesn't involve weapons? Were the usual intergroup legit Jimmy wants us
fight divisiveness and are ever increasing sense of disconnection. He wants each and every one of us to commit to being kinder to one,
if you paid any attention to the news in the last few years you undersea
that Jimmy's war for kindness is becoming more and more of an uphill battle. A growing body of work shows the empathy
in general seems to be decreasing overtime. One study
and people with a series of statements and asked them how well it described them on a scale from one not at all. To five Fichu perfectly, the statements were things like. I often have tender concern feelings for people who are less fortunate in me,
and when I'm upset someone, I usually try to put myself in their shoes for awhile and what they found was that
in eighteen. Seventy nine, the average American scored like a four out of five, which sends not
there will be a b, but by two thousand nine, the average american drop down to a three point. Five out of five said to put that in perspective,
average American in two thousand nine less empathic,
this measure than seven
five percent of Americans just thirty years before this rising level of disconnection
means that more and more of us are missing out on a potential boost to our well being,
pricing to a lot of people, that empathy is good for us, the US, the right we typically think of it. Almost like a transfer like I give up my
Bunny your time or emotional peace. In order to help you have more of it, it sort of the quintessential act of self sacrifice it turns out there
data point almost exactly in the opposite direction that caring
for others is one of the most important ways we can care for ourselves. People who experience
A lot of empathy also tend to be happier less stressed and means less depression.
Find it easier to make new friends and to maintain important relationships like their marriages, seven
graters who are able to understand what others feel are.
So better able to survive seventh grade, which is not easy, if my recollection serves the false into
in that empathic work reduces our happiness, is hard to shake. Jimmy saw this himself when he taught a classic stamper called becoming kinder. So every
weekend, I would give students these kind
challenges. These little practical assignments meant to help push them to empathize more and one of the very first ones.
Did was spend on some one else. So in a moment when you don't feel like you have enough
time more energy for yourself do the thing that doesn't come now.
To you and help someone else instead and this
since we are really worried about this, because it was mid term season. It fills me with all his mid term season, always mid term sees. It is somehow always midwives these it, but they were freaked out
they were overwhelmed and they thought got. I want at the time to do stuff for other people and reliably they came back from that challenge. Feeling like I was shocked because, after I hope someone else, I didn't feel depleted. I felt entered
as I can, if it like. If I can do for some one else, then I must be doing,
hey myself, when we don't take actions that can make the people around us feel better when we don't checking with friends or notice of a co workers in pain or stopped artist.
Under it means we are each contributing to that tire. Fire culture Gmail talked about earlier, but Jim yields work shows that doesn't have to be the case.
Trick that our minds play on us and that our culture plays on us is convincing us that we can't change. I think this is big stereotype that some p
who are empathic, some people are not
Whatever level of empathy you have, it's like your adult height or your eye, colored you'll have it for life, but I think that the evidence actually again point in the opposite direction. There are things we can do to push back. I mean the fact that empathy has decreed.
And so much in the last thirty years means that its malleable things that go down can come up, and I think that one of the first things that I want people to understand is that empathy
these under our control more than we realise their specific strategies. Each of us can use today to increase our empathy and not just in a pro,
the away where we extend kindness only to the people who are like us, the science
as we can tramp compassion to fight the dangerous intergroup. Empathy caps that plague our
and that we may even be able to use some of these strategies to start reducing the biggest and most painful divides in society
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It turns out that, in fact, empathy is like a skill and there are lots of things that,
can do to cultivate empathy in ourselves and others. When a mule taught his becoming kinder class, he gave his students a super hard assignment
and empathy challenge. He christened disagreeing better low and welcome back everybody you can check out
version on his find someone with whom you have an ideological difference of opinion, but then, instead of
helping at each other with judging each other or even debating. I want you to try to cultivate curiosity about each ask this prison how they came to have their opinion in the first place and share with them the story of how you came to have your opinion. In the first place, students embarked on hard conversations
with racist, Facebook, posting uncles and frank discussions about sexuality with their less than progressive parents. They predicted that these exchanges would end in frustration or even two years, but a new
all cases those story sharing conversations. What better than expected. When you
start with narratives, instead of either call
saying how wrong there
get to a new type of discussion right away, one in which it actually
Does it matter as much if you would agree on every point, but something just as Import
Or maybe even more important happens, which is that they
grow to appreciate that people there.
are not necessarily bad people there. Just
For with different stories than their own, no one owes anyone empathy, especially their expressing bigoted viewpoints, but you meals,
His students were still surprisingly grateful for having been given the challenge because it taught them that making connections across
seemingly unbridgable divides, is actually possible but
you might be saying, this is just an anecdote from one college class of students talking to their family members
their scientific evidence that shearing stories and empathic work like this really does the job Cancun,
thing over. Shared experiences actually reduce the intergroup disconnection. We see all over the world.
Did you go to allow gay and lesbian couples to continue to marry. You did your vote to abandon lesbian couples from being able to make a sandy. You didn't typical political canvassing.
Involves knocking on someone's door and launching into a one way conversation filled with facts, figures and strong arguments. This style of canvassing doesn't really work, especially when the usual political partisanship
in its grip, my name's Josh Color, I'm innocent professor of political science and data science at Yale University. He borders tune it out, they want, and
that won't pay attention or they'll argue against it
most people are just such consistently democratic, such anxiously republican. There's often
much room due to change. Some of minor adjustments
Alex have begun, studying the effectiveness of a new kind of canvassing, one that can break down her intergroup liners and one that also
place. A lot of the same empathic practices that Gmail and his students used in that disagreeing better assignment,
deep canvassing has a longer form of canvassing that really
involves sharing personal narratives about an issue that often
canvasser sharing a moment in their life that is somehow relevant to the Bishop s being studied
I'm a good guy. I doubt that totally shocks you and I was in a relationship for eighteen years,
stories then prompt. The vote
or to share their,
story when my wife died or whatever I broke. My heart didn't break. My only one meal sounds like marriages incredibly important to you. I was married forty seven years and she passed away
we find this up by talking through these.
Nor is the the type of this
a nation that we're trying to reduce becomes much more concrete
and it also reduces
fears that the voter has towards our group. It helps them understand. What does this work?
friends, gender actually mean. Or what does this word undocumented immigrants? Actually I
walking through the waste of conducting an immigrant or transgender person through here in their story hearing the canvas your stories tends to shut off the indifference. We typically feel for people outside our tribe. Deep canvassing also forces the listener.
See people from unfamiliar groups with unfamiliar views as people, and that empathic boost allows deep canvas hours to do something.
The billions of dollars of political adds, can't they actually change people.
Mine's about controversial political issues. This issues gonna come up for a vote again in the future. I would vote for distant voted
however, the allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry. Josh's careful field research has found that deep canvas
and get about five to seven new supporters for every hundred people. I talk to you
that may not sound like much, but for ballot measures that
typically won or lost by less than five percentage points. Deep canvassing can make or break the adoption of progressive new law, but what's most
ass it about Josh's. Deep canvassing findings is that these persuasion effects last a long long time,
keep doing this follow up surveys, two three four or five months later and tipping.
We run out of money to run more surveys before the effects it. But, aside from the politics
I shall also seem how powerful deep canvassing can be an impassively connecting people from different identities. One of his favorite examples comes from an encounter in Florida during a campaign for Trans rights.
A trench, entertainment sir, and he shows up to a house that has a big american flag and had a pickup truck, and he he's really bracing himself were, but he expects to be a really difficult coming
should. The canvas are shared his story anyway. He described
kinds of prejudice and misunderstanding. He faces on a near daily basis, Hevens
a story about being made fun of called an animal on the New York Subway,
After sharing this story, a person.
Nation. He asked the the person needs canvassing this way: macho pickup truck driver in american flag guy. Have you refusing
like that. The guy he's getting really pauses for a minute and says the experiences that you face. Discrimination at you face and
people's lack of empathy and understanding it. It's not that different. Then the experience of life is served,
Afghanistan to towards their. I came back and I had PTSD
word look at me like. I was crazy and they want and understand what was going on.
And while stories adjust question, so many of the assumptions that we all make and shows, I again for peace
If we question of assumptions, if were vulnerable and try and listen and share share experiences, we can be successful. Genji mines to meals, a huge fan, Josh's deep canvassing work because it provides,
it's a wonderful example of the central claim in his war for kindness book, the apathy is a school. We can build over time
Well, we can use to do some amazing things if and when we have the bandwidth to use it. I think
I told you right now includes a lot of threat.
At home online outside were constantly field
though there are people who
threaten our way of life was that no beliefs- and I'm not gonna, say that that's untrue and
Although its easy and natural to engage him, I guess what you call call out culture, I'd suggest serve attacking people who have your toxic or a problematic attitudes. I think the hard, but often very productive thing to do is to be the pursue takes that first step.
Who, with their guard down and decides to be vulnerable engineer himself, recognises just how hard that first step.
They can be really exhausting to try to empathize with people who are different from us, especially if they have opinions that we might fear.
Or of Boar
Now I try really hard to be an understanding person and I truly believe in the importance of Jimmy's battle for kindness.
Almost every day. I see some view online. That makes me see red when people
seem to be so hateful. It's really really hard for me to see them as deserving of my compassion or my.
Shall energy. I was surprised,
guy, who literally wrote the book on empathy, got exactly what I was saying. Trust me
I feel that way. All the time
I remember where the New York Times have this whole very sympathetic, portrayal of a family in Illinois that happened to be nazis, and I remember it
detail where they were trying to humanize this family by talking about how to cook their past and edged? Remember thinking, I don't want it
about you Nazi pastor. I dont want to humanize you it's exhausting to connect and its especially exhausting to connect with people who say things that are awful and that dont really deserve a platform. So I think it's perfect.
Ok for people to think about what they have the energy for what they have the spaceport
and no one should feel like their obligated to connect with or empathize
if somebody who seeing awful things
and no one has to do this. It's not anybody's job.
But when we do its remarkable, how powerful that can be
can sometimes what you realise is that
people on the other side,
are also waiting for a chance to be human. Despite the appeal battle, Jimmy optimistic that his war for kindness is gaining new recruits
I received hundreds of emails that are something along the lines of I M so fed up with this culture division. I want more empathy,
in the world, but I'm the only one animals like can. I put in
chatters, I think like so many of you. We often feel alone like
We are the only ones swimming upstream against a culture of hatred and division and isolation. Farragut's
really shocking how powerful it can be. To take the first step to be that gene
instead of waiting for it
because when we take a step towards listening to others towards being vulnerable with them,
often as we find that they are ready to do the same thing as good. If each one of us,
that they can change our lives and it can change the lives of people around us
maybe even save lives. The thing that really
fires me is what would happen if a lot of us, if most of us do that
Then we wouldn't be changing lives, one at a time we have,
chance to actually change our entire culture. I tried the an optimistic person.
But right now and twenty twenty, the idea that our entire cultural change for the better seems a pretty just a hope.
So much about how our institutions work seems to be wrong
The flaws in these systems need to prejudice cruelty and injustice, and lots of
well, don't seem to realise that the burden of all these awful things continues to hurt some marginalized groups, more than others
seeing all this makes me really sad, an angry at the groups I feel responsible. I hate the injustice, I hate the divisions and I hate the Hague even on my best. Is it's hard not to lose hope that I personally coming
any difference in these historic problems, but I don't wanna just retreat to my in group and I dont want empathize with only people who are exactly like me, nor loaded the pain and misfortune of those who hold different views or who lived if alive,
so I am now committing to trying to follow your meals advice.
I'm going to remember that the science shows my intuitions IRAN, that if I try-
take the first step and put my guard down, at least in those cases,
where I had the emotional bandwidth to do so, it might be more effective than I think
rather than only seeing someone as a member of an identity, I disagree with I'll try to connect a bit better I'll, ask people to share their stories and, if they'll listen, I'll share my own,
but like Gmail. I also want to make sure that all this empathic labour is a bit more evenly distributed, that the hard work of deep connection,
and just fault, historically marginalized groups
long been on the receiving side of all the injustice. These are the folks were
is likely to have the needed emotional bandwidth to make connections
I also want to make sure that were distributing the work of correcting these injustices a little more fairly and that the
wine spots of our mind. Don't prevent well intentioned people like me from
it making all those structural inequalities. Worse
when the happiness lab returns. Next time will tackle
all these issues directly in our next step,
how to be a better ally will hear what site
says how you can fight the structures that lead to-
our societies worse injustices,
How the lives of our mind sometimes cause good people,
unknowingly make things worse,
I see that using evidence based strategies for becoming a better ally cannot
boost your own personal well, but, more importantly,
can make us more effective in contributing positively to the causes we care about most
I hope you ll return next week to you
final season. Two episode of the happiness on would be doktor lorries, victims,
the happiness lab is current in producing by Ryan. Doing our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring mixing in mastering by Evan Viola PETE, not, and also help with production. Joseph Friedman check their effects,
editing was done by Sophie claim the cabin special thanks to meal about curly,
glory, Heather, Fain, Julia Barton, Maggie Taylor, Maya caning Jacob icebergs and my agent than Davis fabulous lab is brought to you by Pushkin industries and the stock
They centres? Here's a preview of acts yesterday get smarter faster. Every week day morning
Alan alone, I would voodoo and congratulations are being the host of acts.
Today you are now the voice of acts use our. That means a lack coming from you, MIKE as one of the best known and hardest working journalists in Washington, and I think many people already gang
Must read newsletter Axios, a dot m and we're going to help people start their day with a new podcast? I wonder if you can help me tell everybody what is going to be.
Now we're gonna be the smartest funnest breakfast table
world, so we're gonna make. You smarter, asked her on the topics that,
changing the world connecting business tech, media politics
science, a I all- could make for greek conversations all day in making those topics you talked about. I think there's a really interesting philosophy that happens that I'm learning a lot about it acts Yos just about how all of those things you
gender actually related homer starting access. We realised that just being up to speed on a topic or to wasn't enough,
in this revolutionary transforming world.
You have to see how things connect and collide, how tech hooks and a business
How politics and media interplay sorts
those collisions that are going to make for
conversations on accused today and so make the best thing is we're going to do all of this injustice
and minutes actually means worthy in Greek. We ve always trade,
be worthy of your time and attention,
and now we're gonna be worthy of your ears. It's actually a little crazy to try to launch this daily news. Podcast in the middle of a pandemic. Make were actually doing this view zoom, so you and I
can practise responsible social distancing. But I wonder if you can tell me why you think this is so important to launch right now
from my bedroom in Arlington
because you said that's where would give us the best sound, but we realise that in this moment
when the world is changing when the pandemic.
Is still on.
till justice is now at the centre of the global
conversation it's more important than ever. That people have real
contrast, so you can
a better citizen and a better
We like to think of acts, uses having breakfast with
smartest friend Nile? What's breakfast like
You again real life money might well
I am a teacher anchor, so I don't think I can start a day without a cup of tea and
It gives me the energy than I need to get going in the morning, although I have also been told that I have a lot of natural energy that does not seem to be augmented with caffeine. I mean thinks MIKE. I'm also super excited to finally
launch the programme which we are doing in partnership with Pushkin industries and of yours,
Greece. We are you'll, be able to listen to the pod each week day morning. You can,
this wherever you get your podcast, and we cannot wait to hear what you think of the show I'm nylon boot
coming up on June. Twenty second is our very first episode of axioms. Today,
Transcript generated on 2020-06-23.