The frontier ex this is the moth radio, our I'm Sarah stinginess, we're exploring fear. In Michel stories of stepping into the unknown stage fright irrational, fears and staring down the demon. We start in childhood with something that went bump in them. Zena to semi, told our first story at an open, my ma stories, lamb in Washington DC, where we partner with public radio station w a m, the theme of the night was creeping, Here's a it to Semo live at them. Debbie became a part of my life really free the moment. I was born exactly what or Davy was, I would

really know until my adulthood, but its presence This was felt on a daily basis from until as proud, My adolescence so described derby, as let's say, an invisible. Babysitter kind of an enforcer of the rules even though I can never really see it and didn't know what it was done away with. What my mother would call upon, if me or any of my siblings, were breaking the rules. Are I was in a fight with my brother. If we were taking too long to do something, if I needed to clean my room, she would just say you want me to call database and should be met with immediate obedience and really the power that data we had over me and my siblings was derives purely from fear fear of what is done away, what happens Gets here we have no idea, and we

so scared of deprivation and the idea that they that none of us even talked about that away- Hearing that it name kind of with the here is on the back of our next stand up and would send a chill down our spines. and this was are alive for years until overtime, our fear of dynamic, gradually declined and we kind of grew a little older and we got to the point of view are able to talk about that away, and we discovered that done away was something in completely different for each of us sauce darwin, my brother, the youngest of the three. He always had an irrational fear of insects, so For him data they was a giant spider that hit in the shadows. My sister, the oldest of the three, was a little more rational and for her database was just a man who would come and punish us if we did something wrong.

and for me definitively, the most imaginative margins have of the three derivation or something much more terrifying, and sinister saturday for me, was a vampire rabbit that would sneak up behind children? common bite. Their necks so Clearly I was suffering more than they were all these years. I'm sure if my mother actually knew this silent torment that we, going through every time. She'd say that always knew she wouldn't have used anywhere as parenting tactic, but she did. And it took many years and eventually after we realise this, our fear declined even more because there was that hope that one of us has to be wrong. At least one of us. Maybe it's not a vampire and when

you are adults of your kind of laughing about this amongst ourselves, and so we decided to finally ask our mom: how can we haven't done this year? So we ask my mom what is dead of aim and she goes o database and she tells us the story, how, when my sister was born, she was trying to change her. Paper one day and my sister was not being cooperative at all. So my uncle happened to be there and he walks pass, and he says to my sister, if you don't stop still I'm gonna call derby and my sister went silent. My mom, was able to clean her diaper. just like I've, never been able to do that so effortlessly before what is dead away, and he says that he's some guy we use and overcome ethiopia. He was a kind of weird so all these years. I closer wedding, my pants at the fear of derivation showing up in my room. Finally, this whole time:

The scared of some due to the use of ethiopia so I guess sometimes or you're scared of is it where you think you're scared of, and sometimes what you're scared of really isn't anything at all. They need to send and lived in a decent area for twenty years, which is now in Lana georgian placing her biggest fear of all grad school she's happy to say she and her siblings have all grown into functional adults. Even after this episode with Debbie, in a told me that whenever she's babysitting a child whose acting up shall say if you dont behave, I'm gonna call Debbie just to see if it works, but it where does the kid always ask who database is and then she tells them which defeats the whole purpose

yeah. when face to face with a choice. We can be scared of risk and stepping into the unknown diane steel or next storyteller explores this. She told us a story slamming chicago where we partner with public radio station w, be easy and a no there's a mention the sex industry. fears diane, it was a friday night pizza night in our house, and I was making a salad when my husband came home from work. I looked at him and I was seized by along. So sudden and so intense. It literally made me dizzy right then practically right. There. we had sex, which is part

pours when you're young and dating, but we ve been married nearly twenty years afterwards, he could catch her breath. He said: where did it come from? I've been wondering same thing myself. Now I was at the age where you sometimes miss periods is called permanent, a pause for you, young uns, so the next month what I didn't coming period. I thought nothing of it when I started feeling a little crazy in the morning. I dismiss that too. I was under a lot of pressure, but the day I put out to shut down without abroad and my nipples hurt- I said oh shit, I had just celebrated my forty sixth birthday. This is crazy. I thought I cannot be pregnant. I have my children there, ten and thirteen, and I am done

sure a few years ago. I really want in a third, but I talk myself out of it too old to broke to overwhelmed and I remember some reading done- what that's the odds are. Infant, personally small of getting pregnant at forty. The six years down the road. I figure it's about his like likely as immaculate conception. This is what I do. I myself, as I drove to target for a pregnancy tat, I felt so stupid. Even getting The thing I put it in the cart and then started like throwing in all the all this other stuff. You tube socks, flashlights same old jeans. Anything to give the impression that I was just a normal, suburban housewife, Having for her family instead of forty six you're, a woman who may have gotten herself in trouble,

so I get home and I cannot take that has. I am too scared, I'm thinking I can not be pregnant. Forty six my time. It's born I'll, be almost forty seven, so I hid it in the bottom of my sector. Sometimes that helps well. It lay there all day long. all night long beating, like the tell tale heart it gets freaky, ravens, squak and their survival, the next morning. I could not take it the minute my husband left for work jumped the bad randal environment peed on the stick and as I'm seeing it on the counter, you know to wait for the what five minutes it's supposed to take. I see out of the corner of my eye of the red line and I don't mean just read, I mean stop light read. Siren rather like wagner and pragmatic?

Com, my husband work, he's a high school teacher, so this means taking him out of a classroom of teenagers to receive the news. and I'll never forget his reaction. One word really happy hopeful Is spontaneous, honest reaction was one of joy. I slept that shit right out of my own, he sorry about that. my mind started. Turning on me, I really went to some very dark places. I actually for while consoled myself by thinking. Maybe I will lose this. Maybe this is the I've heard the story to tell and for those

out there who have gone through that? I beg your forgiveness, but it just shows you how powerful fear can be. Anyway, eventually, I made important room with minded wife and the first thing she says as Diane This happen. Are you hitting me. You know this is why people don't go to midwives. She told me, I was healthy, it'd be fine, but she did recommend a test for birth defects, so you can take as early as ten weeks and when I'm filling out the form to take this test. There's a section for your age. Es category is forty two forty five. There is no hurry since I sat this warm discriminates against women in the fifties anyway,

call me a few days later with results. The baby's perfect. She said a little girl and like that, that's what this pregnancy, this problem became a little girl. My daughter, catherine grace. I wanted an unusual I am katherine. Grace turned ten a few months ago, and now all I want to do is turn back time. The pregnancy was a breeze. She was the easiest baby and I had more fun with her than I think I've had with anyone my entire life and those fears, mostly just noise, be careful of that noise. It seems to get the loudest right when we're on the threshold of what it turns out. We really want

Thank you that was dying costume. They use as a writer and three time monstrously she's. Also the producer of First person live a story. show in chicago's northwest suburbs diana may that, beyond the fear of health complications, she worried at forty seven and as a new mom she wouldn't be able to handle the demands of a baby. She thought she'd be mistaken for the baby's grandmother that the physical toll would be too much on her body and that you wouldn't have any mom friends, because she was quote old, but she says none of this kind. To pass and it turned out to be the best time of her life. She said her daughter, Catherine, is very strong, willed, very confident and self possessed,

Consider each other so maids after our break a story of channeling, Bruce Lee and the elementary school playground and a story about avoiding the talk with your kids at all costs. training our continues The The The moth radio hours produced by atlantic public media and woods whole massachusetts and presented by p r ex. Oh, do

who is the most popular open source e r p, for many reasons is affordable, easy to use. However, most companies rely on oh do because their applications are fully integrated. What does fully integrated mean? Imagine a mechanic who keep everything they need in one convenient toolbox. Oh do is just like that, instead of a hammer, you'll get applications for every aspect of your company for always connected and communicating with each other, letting you stay up to date at all times, for a free trial visit, oh, do dot com, slash, moth, that's o d, o o dot com, slash moth,. This is the most radio our from pure ex I'm Sarah asked engineers are net. story in this hour, exploring dread and trepidation was told by tee no chavez win at a grandson,

in Portland Oregon, where we partner with oregon public broadcasting, Tito's parents died when Tito was very young and he lived indifferent homes as he was growing up, the story takes place as tito is trying to find his way. Here's tito chavez when live at the man I took my first step onto the mulch. My suit uniform is fresh, pressed and tighten up. My belt I've seen this battle field a dozen times before I looked to the high ground on the mound. There's the structure, there's five guys there, I've trained extensively. For this event I march forward- and we guys and there's pure silence. It's me verses them and she's the break. The silence, I say, hey come

down from those monkey bars. So just for a little bit of contacts, I'm here Old, I have travelled all around the southern states, particularly rural places, one of those people from a situation where I'm really a branch grafted onto a different family tree. There's always a different family. There's, always a different town, there's always a different school, but the thing that always stays the same is recess. Time becomes my war zone. I take a step onto researchers recess every single time and go to the monkey bars success, my favorite and I'm in me italy. Punched pushed yell that made fun of secluded into a different part of the yard, but this time it's gotta be different. I'm living in a different place

not in the south in maryland, in a place called tawny town, we really should just change the aid to an ice. Tiny town, but I am there at summer time it's a couple weeks out from school and I've been staying up late and I see on the tv. So I've never seen before it's really late, there's some weird stuff that goes on and I love it. There's a guy on the screen who looks like me: he's smart, confident, sexy even a little bit dangerous and it's in the best movie of all time it has danger. As an awesome villain has fights you probably heard of it enter the dragon starring bruce Lee, so I watch this thing twenty times in a row. I love this film and there's a scene in particular that I I it it's my favorite thing ever still to this day,.

Bruce Lee's on a boat and he's being bullied, taunted and he says hey. What's your martial arts style and bruce Lee turns to him and says my style. The art of fighting without fighting the guy looks confused and challenges into a fight. Anyways Bruce Lee says yeah, let's hop on the small vote and go to the island. The guy says sure goes onto the boat before he realizes. There's, not an engine. There's no paddles Bruce Lee pulls the rope and drifts them off to sea, when's, the fight with values and throwing a punch dammit smooth. Now I've seen this so many times, I'm just starting to asked the guy taking care of me chuck do martial arts classes, that's all, I do so every fifteen minutes for the next week. I just ask hey: I would be really good at this I'd be you know I should learn how to fight it out there great discipline, disciplining martial arts. That's definitely what I need.

you eventually relents. I go into my first class. I get the cool uniform critical about and I do the forty five minutes. Ass, I come out of it. I have inherited two thousand years of combat knowledge. and the bad is kid in the world know It's not me. I know this school starts. I My uniform in my backpack go according to plan class happens. The bell rings its recess time. I go to the teacher. This is my first illegal thing ever. Go to the teachers desk and I grab a sharp you and I go into the bathroom I put on my uniform get my will wipe out tired around my waist and start painting it with a sharper. It's cool, it's fine, noble them now I go into recess and all that teachers know how cool I am because they're all smirking incarnate chuckling, because they know like well. I've learned some stuff.

All the other kids in the playground are wide eyed. They know I'm a bad bad kid This brings me back to those five five guys. Looking at me, and I say hey, do you want to see a front, kick their eyes. This bug out their faith, can towards I've seen this I know this intimately it's a face. I typically have Whenever I go into reassess its terror, its being scared. And I think, back to brutally saying my style, the art of fighting without fighting and I looked at them. I say: hey Do you wanna see how to do a front? Kick. I can show you it's really cool and their quiet. Early whispering to one another, and then they start all running right at me, and I close my eyes, and I think this is I get my black I again now

Open up my eyes- and there are to the left and the right of me in there are looking at me in there like a yeah. Can you show me that front fruitcake and I like smirk a little bit. I'm like oh yeah. I can show you this, and this is one of those moments where I know things can change again. I say yeah. Let's do that front kick, but you have to promise. We have to go to those monkey bars after words, and with that I do my first front kick with a new group of friends. I take one step with new group of friends, I finally get swing on some monkey bars with some friends. That was tito chavez. When Tito describes himself as an asian latino and a global tumbleweed, the events This story happened over twenty years ago. In these days, Tito still loves bruce Lee films, but he now avoids all kinds of fights, even verbal ones, he's a peaceful soul

in fact, when I tried to let him know his story- was going to err on this radio, our here at a silent, meditation retreat Do you have a story about being face to face with something that scared you or avoiding? What you fear at all costs- or They any personal story that matters to you. We'd love to hear it. You can recall But your pitch read on our sight or call eight seven. Seven m, o t age, eight hundred and seventy seven, seven hundred and ninety nine six thousand six hundred and eighty four, the best pictures are developed. from all shows all around the world. The. next in this hour of things were afraid of, is patty arrow patty. The story in seattle, Washington will partner with public radio station k, you oda, here's patty it. So

My dog and I have a ritual. Well, it's kind of a ritual. I have a ritual. I go to the pit store bought once a month and by the biggest bag. I can carry, organic, lamb and rice, in your formula, dog food with good consummating handwriting, and I bring this thing home and I say to her: you have to stay alive tell this is all gone. And I'm serious about this. This dog was fifteen years old and april I need her to live a long time. I need her to live because

I do not want to have the talk with my children. You know the talk my daughter is six. My son is for- and I have been thinking for six years about this talk you see. I too am an atheist, so I am bereft of that beautiful narrative that we are all familiar with. What happens after you die. So I don't know what to say at all, which is why, when one night, we are putting the kids to bed. We heard this sound in the living room like we raced out there and we left the dinner on the table.

so I raised the dog to the animal emergency hospital in the middle of the night, where they re able to sedate her and get the chicken bone out with forceps in italy cost three hundred dollars. I got off lucky you see the set in time. Sophie got a chicken bone, they had to call in the scope driver who had to come in wake up from his bed and come to the vet. Mary hospital and derive a little mechanical hand down her esophagus and retrieve the chicken bone so that night said to our you better live until this credit card is paid for when the cat died. I did not tell my children for three weeks

it happen the night before valentine's day. What are you gonna? Do like here's, your heart, she pancake by the way charlie's dead. I didn't once you started faking the cat being alive. There's really. hard to get out of it. You know it was easy. Charlie is, Am I a cat, graham and charlie, live downstairs and eu really than like the children anyway, so they were used to going for long periods of time without seeing him And then one day you know we're in breakfast and the nanny says: oh, but and- and I searched like you have adult yet I haven't told them yet so that night I vowed I'm going to tell the children about the cat and, I said I myself up- and I told all my friends at work this is it we're telling them about the cat. So that night they came home from school and I said, scarlet honey. I have sad news: honey

Charlie died in the night and she said mommy and, I said I know honey and she said: can we get a kitten and brother said? I want a black kitten and scarlet said I want to wake it. Let's get to end the conversation, then the sad news was we're not getting a black kitten or white kitten. disaster averted, but it wasn't long before I was faced with this Again last month we traveled organ to attend the funeral of my beloved uncle and at the family dinner. reform was gathered, my cousin, whose father had just died said to scarlet. it's ok honey, I'll, go David's up in Heaven

It is set at life and he's up there with his dad and his mom, and everyone else is already dead. We're going to see him up there and I froze like a deer in the headlights thank good, Yes, my son meanwhile had gone out into the driveway and had gotten in somebody else's car and was honking the horn, and I just ran off for the next few weeks. My daughter was telling me about the second wife up in Heaven, and I was like I, I I dont want to say I've been trying all this time to construct a narrative, something that's beautiful and magical compelling like that narrative so far, all I have is we are made of stardust Any suggestions be really welcome here. To finish that up, so I can't

need to work on my narrative and in the meantime I keep buying that dog food cause she's. Gonna live a little bit longer. Thank you. Patty arrow is a writer who lives in seattle. She refers to Sophie as her dear obedient dog because sophie state alive until she was sixteen and a half hour, savory the math, that's almost a hundred and sixteen inhuman years. That's an old dog You can see a photo of deer obedient sophie. If you go to our website them off tat work. Patty said She told this story. Her biggest fear was coming out as an atheist. It was a big moment to get up on stage and confess that in front of the moth audience she told her kids that she asked he doesn't know what happens when we die and that some folks

believe in Heaven and reincarnation, but she likes to think that woman, die oliver Adams well mixed the other atoms in the world and be used to create something or someone new. she said there are things in life we just can't protect. Our kids from fear of death is a big one after it break to final stories. A split decision is made when a driver is pulled over by police and a psychiatrist. it was a long held secret that may threaten his career when the moth radio, our continues good the The it the

the the mouth radio hours produced by atlantic public media would toll massachusetts and presented by the public. Video exchange, Pierre ex dot, org. you're listening to the moth radio, our from pure eggs. I'm Sarah asked engineers, chelsea short told this next story at a moths lamb in Washington DC, where we partner with public radio station m. There's chelsea short lived at the moment. I everybody. I often joke that my real father, is the dose ickes spokesman and the most interesting

man in the world, I know you could tell from the Ben the man bun that I'm wearing I it's not because my father was not in my life. He was of course it's just that my father never really accepted me as a young queer kid like a young masculine kid so like whenever I would ask like that, hey can I uh. Can I get one of those pocket knives? You got my brothers but that'd be like no right or hey dad that flag football looks really fun. Can I can I try it? I see my brothers are doing it and know right So I thought the Joseph keys guy. He can teach me everything. I need to know about being masculine right. I just get the hare get back

close just be the best dancer leg. Try to learn languages know like a few phrases in each just just be as interesting as you can and then you'll have it you'll be you'll, be the perfect stereotype of masculinity. You'll be charming and you'll always have something smart and fun and to say perfect, but that's that's not it right. My dad did a great job of raising me right. He gave me so much. He definitely sat me down and gave me all the talks I needed with my mom about yes being

A black woman, you have to be twice as good get half as much when I started my journey as a young adults are kind of thought all I got it I'll do it all. If you ve seen me before, you might know that I'm a standard comedian when one nine it was coming back from a stand up, show in Arlington, and I was driving home on rock creek parkway to my apartment in the city and I was driving along and if you know rock

weak it's it's dark. There aren't that many street lights. It's like one. It's one lane some spots and I was driving along and whoop whoop police, let shop in the in the back of it in my rearview mirror, and I got immediately really nervous because this was actually the week after Philando castille was murdered and the week after alton sterling was murdered, and it hit me all at once that this was the first time I was being pulled over appearing as masculine as I had been, and just because I had a kind of that feeling that this guy had been following me for for awhile, because if you follow me for the reason I thought he was, I had done that several miles ago. Ok,. so. Why is he pulled me over now, sums run some wrong and they

in the place where he pulled me over made me nervous too, because, yes, everybody was nervous, especially with interactions with the cops black people interactions with cops at the time and the place where he pulled me over in rock creek park. There was no space for cars to safely pass there was no overhead light, and I know that when a police officer is feeling uncomfortable like Lena's, of me getting injured goes up. So I was super nervous and I realized my dad did not spare me for this, and how could he have known that? I would be situation when he thought that I was always gonna be his little girl. So I did everything I overheard. My father tell my brothers,

all right get your while it out put her on earth. I put your hands on the wheels, don't move turn off the music turn off. The car came up to my window, whose, like hey what you do in body by another, and he asked me for my eye. Id. My registration- and this is something that sickens me to this day. It reads my license and he clearly Doesn't pay very much attention to it because he says: ok, mr short, I'll be right back and I pitch my voice up, and I said: oh no, it's miss its miss short dress completely. Like this, I mean that he should have been confused. But the thing that makes me think about it is that my instinct was to hide to hide my gender for survival

and and even now, looking back at that time. It strikes me how tough it is to be a black person to be a queer black person in this world. That's always changing. That's changed so much since I came out so since I was a kid to how we respond to two queer people too, to being trans there so much about survival. Here, that's instinct! In luck and that I tried to hide my gender hide it in black femininity, witches, didn't save censure bland and why? Why did I come up with that solution? It's just! I guess it came from fear the next day. I am. I posted on facebook about what had happened to me and I had the

amazing reaction, every body that said something loving and compassionate. They were all black men who had been through a similar expense, and send more welcoming me into this twisted brotherhood and it was like masculinity- come full circle Thank you. Chelsea sure, isn't stand up comedian writer, an actor based in Washington d c ass chelsea if they still reflect on this night and the instinct to identify as female here's? What chelsea said? I think about this experience quite a lot. I dont, like that. I so quickly gave up on all the hard work done on myself and with my therapist to identify as non binary, but any lodge cole survival instinct kicked in. There are

There are so many examples of the police training black. Women and girls with excessive force. But in my panic I didn't remember any of those black man's interactions with the police often get more news coverage and black women's traumatic experiences with police. Often under acknowledged Femininity would save me, though. I knew and know that The performance of ferment femininity doesn't work for black women, the way that it works for white women, so. since at night, I've spent a lot of time. Thinking about pride, specifically that it is more than just a party or you know one. We candy year, but in action and a commitment to truth I know the next time there. Happens to me. I want to

when I will make a different choice to take pride in myself, that was chelsea short, hm. it's time for a last story in this hour about fear and trepidation. Rufus may told this at a moth night we produced, along with the edinburgh book festival with a theme, was hearing voices while this story is exactly on theme. You will also here that there were lots of fireworks going off outside the theatre that night but dont. Let the noise.

Scary. Here's rufus may live with them off, so I'm in a phone box in the south of france and I'm phoning professor Mary boyle she's, head of the clinical psychology doctorate at the university of east london, where I've been studying for three years have passed all the course, and the placements and she's quite an intimidating woman, she's somebody. I respect greatly she's written a book called schizophrenia, scientific delusion really challenging the idea that we can now-

they think scientific about people's intense confusion. We need to look at a lot more creative way at these experiences. The phone rings chances. She doesnt suffer false gladly from a little bit scared, hello, Mary, I say hello rufus. She says hello. I was wondering if there was a student who had had mental health problems in the past, but when he got to the car seat, not mentioned it when he started the course- and I know it's a dismissal offence not to mention it on the occupational health form, but he just thought he might get discriminated against kept quiet about it and then he wanted to be more honest. Now his close to qualifications said rufus are you talking about yourself said

Oh yes, Mary. I am she said. Well, it shouldn't be a problem. She said what was the mental health problem I said: well, they gave me a diagnosis, schizophrenia. Oh dear. She said I just thinking Mary think of your book. No, it's it's a delusion and I said. And look. I had some problems when I was eighteen and haven't taken medication since the age of nineteen, and I really want to train as a cyclist. I don't have to keep this secret anymore, She said, rufus relation of light.

a simple mary, I'm not sure that got to where I am today for hand of light. One of my more sanctimonious moments she said. Well, I want to support you. We want to support you, but we're gonna have to take this further, so they spoke to the occupational health department and the occupation of helped palm and said. Well, what do you think you think he's were standing by? They said? Yes, we do, and they said we will have to talk this jp, so they wrote my gdp and my jp wrote a report saying that at the age of eighty not had a nervous breakdown relates of family related. Grass had psychotic features. That sounds good, but has a lot better than schizophrenia. I wish they. They told me that, other time what

it told me at the time was that I'd have to take medication for the rest of my life that I had this lifelong illness and that I needed to lower my expectations of what I could achieve. I was a bit rebellious, so I didn't believe them I got through. I had a clean slate. I could now be open and mary and the team supported me and I qualified and I got the job nice london and I wanted to be honest, but I didn't know how to bring that part of me in I'd hoped in psychology. I could bring it in as a form of wisdom, but they never seemed the place for it. Personal experience just didn't seem to fit in that. A year later, there was a conference. And they really wanted to hear stories of people coming through was seen as severe mental illness, and so I wrote and applied to give a talk and they took a risk that never heard of Me- and I got to give a talk.

my journey and how I worked as a professional? I wanted to bring the two things together: how wide experience in psychiatry, heavy drugs, no talking a bit of doom and gloom and a bit racial therapy how bad influence me and what I've had found helpful and how I will work to people and before I gave the talk is really important to look like. I was saying

So I I will my best shirt. I did a few press ups beforehand, a bit of yoga to look serene and the and- and there was a woman next to me and sandra russia she's, like the fairy godmother of the hearing voices movement hearing voices movement is like a network of self help groups for people who hear voices. She was next to me, and I told her, it was my first ever talk and she's really nice and as always, giving my talk as one hundred and fifty people there, and I was talking about people who'd helped me and inspired me and one of the people I was talking about was my my mother had had a brain hemorrhage when I was eleven and together with my dad and family and friends, she'd done lots of exercises. I'd seen her make a real strong, come come back from her brain hemorrhage, and I was talking about that. How it inspired me and

I paused and sondra. She said you doing really well and something inside broke, and I just started to cry which was a design. I wanted to prepare sorted, that's Are we trying to clinical psychology to appear like a sanity consultants and not only was crying. there were sobs. I couldn't speak and I look to the audience to my friend for support

well and to my horror, she was crying too. So I thought I'm going to have to leave the stage and I just said offhand really someone helped me out and a guy stood up at the back and started clapping and everybody started clapping and I could breathe and the sobs subsided and I could carry on so I I finished my speech and I felt like I brought these two parts of my life together. The professional and the personal and, and I felt like a spiritually, come home. It was valued. Finally,

That and when I got to work after the conference, I was there kept quiet about it, so they didn't know and then they did know and some of the professionals they were uncomfortable. One therapist said to me: this kind of thing is best left on the therapist's couch and somebody else was honest enough to say I feel really intimidated by you and I'm sure when people do come out, they are a bit intimidated when use of suddenly

no madam proud and I got a bit of a reputation and it got some a bit of media coverage and people knew knew about these kind of two parts of my life are often just some coverage and a few years later I was working yorkshire and I'm a junior doctor came to see me name, was ruse and she just wanted to meet someone another health professional that also had mental health problems. And how do you manage that? We had a chat and then, a week later, she called me up to say: she'd been suspended from my medical training, because she'd had a period of depression. Six months before she'd been hospitalized for over a month and she was horrified she she

Oh passionate about becoming a doctor, and then a week later, she found me up again and said upside hearing a voice and the voice is telling me to kill myself, and so we better me. I've been working a lot with self help groups around here, voices. I and a few days later, I had a dream that I knew about bomb being put in a grocery store and I didn't say anything about it and then the bomb went off and I woke up feeling the most immense amount of guilt and I interpreted that dream. There might be other ways to interpret that dream, but I interpreted it as if I didn't reach out to roof. I was going to lose her as a high suicide rate amongst junior doctors anyway, and she was under tremendous pressure. She knew that she told her daughter. She heard voices she

definitely lose her career. She was too junior to get the support she needed. So I agree to confidentially support to learn how to manage the experience, and we tried lots of things. She did many different approaches, including self help groups and using nature using exercise. One of the things we did was talked with her voice and not only just learn this technique and when the top things, that voice here. He is no one else knows what you're going through, but this technique we are somebody to sit in a different chair and be a spokesperson for the voice. Now I would probably I'm a bit more skilled in these dialogues, and I would ask why What pain are you holding onto? That makes you so angry.

Anything we can do to help you. I didn't know how to do that stuffing and dumb, but we we didn't, try to get rid of him, but we try to strength from moves, so she could get on with our life and she managed to make compromises within says she could and she got back onto her training You can see voices as often carrying painful experiences part, so people carrying terrifying experiences that had been shut away and we need to help people both set boundaries of them, but also help those parts come to some peace. So I guess I just wanted to share those wasted,

We catch roofs and face they sat demons. May is a clinical psychologist manages the impatient psychology service in Boston lancashire. he's still passionate about holistic and creative approaches to mental health problems, And he uses dance, martial arts drama and drumming in his work, for more information on his training workshops and free resources visit them off that org The links are on our radio page all concerned about the discrimination that roof is based, and I asked if these days the field of psychology is more understanding. Rufus said the climate has changed a bit, but it's his opinion that only a few clinical psychology courses welcome applications from people who had personal experience.

mental health problems Rufus as these days he doesn't hear voices, but he said volunteers, with the hearing voices group he mentioned in the story, he talks, only about his experiences and he's here be to say he's well received by his colleagues remember you can share these stories or others from the moth archive and buy tickets to ma, storytelling nights in your area throughout website, the mass dot org find a show nearby and come out to tell a story. That's it for this out of the moth radio, our we hope you'll join us next time and that's the story from them off

euros. This, our Sarah Austin Jim ass, sir, also directed the stories in the show, along with make balls the rest, the maastricht Oil staff includes catherine burns. Sarah haber meant and jennifer hickson production support from Emily couch stories are true, is remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme, music by the drift other music in this hour from still wagon sin from that blue dots sessions abdul Abraham and this silk road ensemble. You can find thanks to all the music we use at our website. Radio hours produced by me, J alison with Vicki Merrick had atlantic public media woods. Whole message,

at this hour was produced with funds from the national endowment for the arts moth radio hours presented by the public radio exchange your ranks for more, on our part, curse for information on teaching us your own story and everything else go to our website. The moss dot org.