Chris and Seerat start the pod by sharing their reactions to the Celtics' Game 3 win over the Warriors and contemplating whether Draymond Green's postgame podcasting is impacting his performance in the series. They then discuss Utah's new coaching vacancy and debate whether the Jazz can replicate the Celtics' postseason success using a similar team-building philosophy (22:30).
Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi
Producer: Chris Sutton
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey it's bill, simmons we're not just reacting to the n b, a playoffs on my podcast for us to do it on the ringer mbs show and the mismatch podcast. They are coming after some of these zambia, playoff games check it out monday, Wednesday and friday nights on the ringer podcast network. Getting a deal
team swag. Oh, it's not a matter of if it's going to happen,
when, when you remember with american express you unlock thirty,
two percent off eligible in stock items at mb store dot. Every time
there's a triple double recorded during the nba players, starting at nine, a m eastern the following day after the game amex
members have twenty four hours to stock up on gear for game days to come. Just you
your card and inner code annexed.
Thirty two to seal in the savings learn more
At n b, a store, dot com, slash m x, thirty, two terms apply. This episode is brought to you by buffalo wild wings, try their exclusive new flavor of mountain dew, mountain dew, ledge
mountain dew legend is classic, do charge with blackberry, citrus and ginger great with wings.
or you could try mountain do legend and be doves, legendary long island cocktail only at buffalo wild wings to the greatest of all times.
Get to a buffalo wild wings near you to try mountain dew legend, please drink responsibly.
what's in the rear, nba show it's the answer. My name is press ryan joint is always by sir it. So you it's observed Chris. I'm so excited for this episode me to our court. It is on a thursday, the night or the day after Boston took a few call commanding, but a two one led.
And their mba finals. Clash with the golden state warriors will talk a little bit about that, but we're also going to ask a big question on today's episode of the answer, which is essentially is boston, a model for other team's success, and we have one team in mind that might want
I take some notes on how boston has been handling themselves this season in this post season, but before we get into that, I thought we could talk about game three a little bit. It was a pretty. I thought was an awesome game honestly like, despite maybe the score at certain points in the first half and then maybe down the stretch. I just thought like this is such a great contrast in styles between these two teams: yeah, it was Boston, totally beat up the warriors for it to get into the contrast of style
That was probably the biggest contrast to me was just how physical boston was and how does not
looking like their point of finals, gave the word
these were casual game from one one particular warrior out there. What we'll talk
I dream about it, a second, but I was wondering whether or not you ve blended much credence to the idea that teams kind of like map out these finals or map out a poem.
Season series where they're, like
have to really get up for this one, and then this what might be
down game and that we really have to get its. Do you think that the warriors could essentially be looking at the totality of their experience in boston and be like all we have to do is when one? Maybe I think that type of
up and down sort of thinking that you have about about these things kind of happens naturally, and I think that we're seeing it happen with the warriors like I I feel like warriors fans- have been pretty much trying to figure out like which mentally
What you this team has like! Are they the two thousand and fifteen cavs, or are they like the two thousand and fifteen like grizzlies?
freeze, or is it like twenty nineteen verses raptors, because it's like those
essentially very similar scenarios and also similar mindsets, and I think it's almost impossible to know until we're done exactly who they are.
in this moment like they could
legitimately as unworried as they sound. Yes, in some ways, press conferences, I think the press conferences and are marketed driving, drawing
as crazy driving media crazy in a way that is a little bit strange to me, I, like I get, I get the idea of okay, you just lost a big game cause this happened after they lost game one to like. We would like to see you get up on the podium and be really really angry about it.
In re podcast it after we were talking about like whether they're being a little too casual about the fact that Horford and white are hitting all of these threes and in some of the other things, and it turns out after a game to blow out when the
maybe maybe having
calm mind to be able to tactically solve some problems and not look at. This is like a it's like this big heaping
Given that it looks like when you who you why, when you watch back in- and it actually try to figure out like why the warriors could do different-
I don't know. I was at that point nineteen theories and gets there after they had
more arrives yeah, obviously pretty like traumatic series for the warriors anyway, because of the injuries but still yeah.
They had the injuries, but one thing that was kind of consistent throughout the playoffs, like, I think, even from game. One was just how
they kind of assumed that they would come back every single time, rape or like they have a bounced back game, and that's fine,
I think that they could and they couldn't game for. But to me right now. The problem is not that the warriors have em like aren't, can appeal to bounce back and aim, for
It's says: they're gonna have to win a game after that, like at some point
areas are going to have to win two games in a row. Yeah celtics our aid, no in the policies and after after losses like they are kind of the opposite,
where once they lose a game, they get their shit together. I dunno that's where I think it could be a problem and still feels a little bit to me like there miss under estimating the opponent yeah. I think that this has been
one of those situations where, when there was the the pylon on staff at the end of the game, yesterday, obviously like the entire warriors, this season flashes before any warriors fans eyes, because you're wondering whether or not this is a redux of what happened with his foot with marcus, smart or did something like that deep hurt a rib, it seemed like
It was a grabbing at his chest, all that a stays out there and when he
hobbled. I came up hobble. I think smart
I lay up on him towards the end of the game and he basically was like. I have to come, come out of the game now I was like this is really pointing in the wrong direction for golden state. It feels a little
bit like when the thunder we're coming up
in the early two thousand tens, and I think I can't remember- I think it was like a spurs series and it was just like- maybe the thirty lost the first two games
but then just was like we have
skeleton key now and the skeleton key as we are bigger, faster and stronger than you guys and there is in
for me to this series, where I wonder whether or not the very very poor
killer brand of not so
small ball that the celtics are able to throw the warriors is a little bit confusing, and I know that you kind of noticed we may have back to back champions who play a very specific style of basketball right yeah. I feel like what boston and the bucks
Dead is essentially find a way to take all the components of small ball that we really lake speed, oversize
usually shooting and positional fluidity exam
keeping it yeah, you know being able to be versatile defensively being able to attack and transition. No opening up the for giving your superstars pretty much like the widest birth they ve ever had to create shots.
The celtics do there and there are also really big at the same time, so
I don't really know what you do with that, like they have kind of taken all the great stuff about small ball and also added the fact that they're just going to clobber you on the boards and they're not going to. Let you score in the paint, because, like robber willie says by the way,
it's gotten. My game in, like was not, was not really reading the scouting report. Before I don't think he thought he was going to play in the series, because the first thing you did was try to shoot a soft little
teardrop floater on Robert Williams, which you just sent lake hurling down the other side of the court when the funnier moments in the game? For me, but yeah, it's it's! It's just tough.
It's tough. We talked about this pretty much all season, long right, like
When will big ball kind of come and get its rebecca janet? I think we're kind. We we hit that moment yesterday, because it's not big ball, its pudding, big guys in smaller bodies.
It's like it's almost like smaller guys playing big is effectively what the celtics are
I mean they're, obviously also able to throw out a closing lineup with Horford and Williams, so it's like they're they're, still able to like put together almost like classic front line, but man when you watch when you watch those guys like envelop clay or envelop wiggins out there on the perimeter and staff basically was like unguarded bull that night on Wednesday, but I just felt like I like the physicality and the intensity with which boston defended
it was just like. I don't know if there is like a solve for that aside from a staff shooting forty times game, but is that is that really even solve, though right, I'm sure the celtics will be like go for it? You know what I mean cause that they might just be like that will take die and then shut ever
thing else. Now that seems to be the strategy. The serious I mean, I think, like we ve kind of light on
on the pick and roll drop coverage which is
we getting a lot of attention, it is the boldest strategy possible sure is it's. The second most talked about aspect of the series, probably and we'll get to the first most talked about aspect which is about talking.
We do not talk about talk about a guy talking. While we talk that's binding framework, we
Where will you do that are here, but not so on the drop coverage? It's pretty much support strategy that you could use it defends, deaf, curry and like that
first quarter, I think, like we talked about it in the last podcast. He didn't really know what they were doing and then they figured it out. Robert Williams has taken a few steps ahead and pretty much since then. I feel like it's been kind of a winning strategy.
cause I mean, is the number of different aspects to this. I think they, the warriors, are not a team it's gonna fully commit to
steph curry high pick and roll over and over.
again. Ok sure, if you guys what theirs
toys r us back to that right, like the teams that we've seen do this, you know it's like luka doncic
it's hard and it's lebron James, like going at you over and over again. I don't know that. That's something that we've ever asked like who's, Kurt library stuff to do, and I don't
no there are smaller. I necessarily has the stamina to do it over and over again, as
as we wait for word about his is helstone is repatriate by the other aspect of it is just that they are not getting anything into paint like that's kind of the key that the celtic seem to have figured out. It's like. Ok, let's, let's treat staff in clay, not like their bad shooters. Let's still treat them like a wheat shooters. Let street
like we treat even like Damian Lillard. Obviously you don't want to let it get open for three but you're, also not going to like we can figure the way you think of
basketball fundamentally because of him either right? So
you know like if I feel like they, have just gone and done the job coverage and williams, a really good drop defender and horror, for it is a really good dropped, offender and fourth,
they have on balance just done enough to be able to defend curry, and it is just
in everything else out of out of the warriors orphans like in last game on Wednesday. Twenty six percent of the warriors points came the paint
compared to thirty seven in their win and in the game. One laws is twenty seven percent. So that's like a figure to watch how much as this year,
goes on. Do the warriors get points in the paint on the other end of the floor, like that. Third quarter was really interesting to me, because that was a moment where it looked like. Well, it took a seven point play yes, I mean
never boy play is like a weird asteroids to throw on what was a great third quarter warriors appearance by it.
Yeah point play: it was, I'm glad, I'm glad. Personally, I got to experience one, but that was
Really that was really what it took for the mass to start working for staff to just keep pulling up over and over again. But then what happened was essentially that the worries you couldn't get any stops on the other hand, because they just kept getting
killed on the boards. So if you figure it out on one end and like the big ball stuff is still killing you on the other he's got completely out man like the entire game, like the sultan,
we're not only more physical than them, but they are also just even if they were
there are just stronger like this is a serious where the warriors beat me to be the ones making up for their lack of size with physicality in an end game, game theory that we got pretty much the opposite of that and they go
clobbered on the boards and traditionally in their dynasty. If they want to call what we're lived, we ve lived through the last ten years. The warriors dynasty, David, able to rely on dream, do yeah. So that brings us to the other subjects we wanted to discuss today, which was
dream on roll in the series I think we're seeing like? I don't know what you want to call him diminished somehow, but, like it's not he's just now it s like every other game kind of peace, with his ability to kind of influence, a game in the positive economic, valencia, the negative, pretty,
jenny night. He wants drama now and
and even in like a sort of referendum on like whether or not he should or shouldn't be podcasting, which I really could care less lesson and like it's not really any of our business. What he decides to do in a hotel room. It seems like a pretty positive way to spend it.
am honestly. Who are we to talk? You know, yeah dre is starting to remind me of dudes. I knew in my early twenties were like you would go to a party with them and no matter what the party was for. It could be awake. It could be somebody's birthday
it could be somebody turning twenty one. It could be whatever it is. The parties about that guy and it is about. Is this guy get em
show us the greatest native our lives
we're going to wind up at like an amusement park at two, a m like sneaking in trying to ride a roller. Is he he
start crying in the middle of the room. Is he to
Try take my sister home like what is going to
and with this guy in the entire party, is only about, like the volatility of this dude, now
I dunno, if my god, utopia in every way becomes about managing his mood, becomes about like limiting the collateral damage of his party behavior, and I'm talking strictly on the court like I'm, not even talking about draymond like podcasting, I'm just saying like
what was once like this super power that the warriors had, which was dream on leading the break off of a rebound, has now become like watching jackass, where I'm like, is he going to? Is he going to fall into
pool full of alligators like as he brings the ball up. Is he going to do a no look? One handed skip pass into the third row? Is he going to get the ball picked off by smart? Is he going to do get a charge, or is he going to do something really cool and magical and fine klay thompson, where no one else thought he was and and it's a three pointer and transition there's that there's the obviously he's just playing until part of my only distaste for like what's happening right now. Is I actually just don't think it's fair that dreamin gets the mf rafts like for three hours but like if your favorite player on your team did that like they would definitely get tossed in two minutes like I'm, not a lip reader, but it just definitely seems like what's acceptable. Behavior for dream on a basketball court is not acceptable for, like ninety nine percent of the rest of the league. So to me it's like a little bit more of just like a little bit
salty about that, and then on top of it. We are witnessing just like this incredible peak staff, performance and part of it just doesn't want this guy to toss it away. He owned. Like part of me,
wants him to like help steph kind of cement. This top ten legacy to everybody has been debating all these last couple of weeks. Like where's your head at when it comes to the dream on debate, it's actually it's pretty much
I feel about the rest of the warriors. I won't get into it too much because it's just play what we talked about at the top of the show which is like we'll see, like maybe he's just
being blahs a and like cause, look being blessed
it looks like, though, on the core
We must, I think, he's trying to put on an image, or maybe that's just how it feels like when he talks about like wall ill yesterday there.
is a thing of he got in
with jake fisher over. I saw that the personal or podcasting yeah yeah in the end, like you, he got asked a question about whether the prescott were whether his podcast could be giving giving,
critics. Hence it struck me as a little little overly defensive. I wouldn't be worried about the tactical secrets you would be telling as much as a stray might ever like. I think Bolton bore material is gonna real personally
and I think that if one were to be something like like he did in the press conference after game, one
Use a word out worried about those guys making that many threes. Again, I don't
I remember that yeah. No, I think, there's something to it. I think there's something to it, but just just
his whole mood in general. It all just kind of comes down to what happens in the rest of the series, like. Maybe it's fine that he is this way like. Maybe this is just how he how he processes? You know these bad losses and stuff. He. He himself admitted that he played like shit to me. The question
comes. I think it's pretty easy to tell early onwards dream on you're getting like for both these games. It's kind of been through and through the same
guy like it hasn't been like. Oh, he has like a good play there and in a good play here, like I think in game when it was kind of obvious right away like oh no, this is not a good drama.
And game two, it was obvious it was yeah, and so you know when it's that clear right in front of you and your steve Kerr. Oh it out,
come on louder. You had a really good. First half it's not going to happen unless there is like a a mystery hamstring tweak, it's not going to happen sure
make it a mystery hamstring twig like if you gotta lake, protect, protect. The guy's ego,
what I mean. I also think that, like do even
all the dream on is somewhat.
who would react that negative
there something like this, like. Obviously it would hurt, but like just from a team wide perspective, yeah. Okay, that you said so much so much. I I'm being completely sincere what I asked,
Do you think he's a little over committed to content right now like? Do you think that there's
the extent to which he is doing certain things creating like us
it's like a maelstrom of drama around it to power like his ability to comment on that, thus driving eyeballs towards what he is making, which is a tried and true podcast a recipe. But I guarantee you it is. I mean we. We have seen we have seen such things work
I don't think so. Honestly, okay, you know like the guy who can't really even like execute a transition pass ahead right now. I just don't know that he's like really working he's not doing
at forgetting that above yeah but yeah, even when he got involved in the scrum at the end of the game where Horford fell on staff and there was that bang bang, like kind of like there's four guys on the floor,
and then draymond, fouls out and Draymond intentionally said, you'd actually found out so that he could get guys off of staff because he heard stuff screaming and then he just went like nuclear on all the rafts, or at least like one of the guys, I think was Courtney Kirkland. Who was talking to him, and I was like you know what this game is over. You know, and I I appreciate the fact that you're coming for your guys back who's like at the bottom of an Al Horford pile, but like still it just seemed like a ton of look at me at the end of the game. When used like you guys just got,
by sixteen in the finals, and you like that like that is the the amount of points that you spotted them in the beginning of the game? Pretty much like this is not about you. This is or, if it's not about your, your kind of like cult of personality, it's about like what are you guys going to do to fix this yeah? I think Damon actually goes where the smoke is. That's a good way of putting it yeah. I think he would kind of be there like, with or without the content creation aspect of this. It just also happens to make him like kind of a perfect broadcaster like he will be in the middle of all of it, and I think he is
which is like very attuned to never actually stop saying what he actually thinks. Logan Murdock had a future about him earlier this year. That was literally, I think it was titled like draymond green, has something to say, which I think as the as like the months of worn out like that
become more and more accurate. It reminds me almost of lake he's like he got boot. He got booed and there is at the factory on chance and everything re who will think of the children. The other than clay thomson who, as far as I know, is, is the father of just one one dog at this point, but I, whatever I appreciate
one also swore in front of his own child nebraska? So I don't have to get to think that every I'm sure, fucked ray mon were some of the nicer things said to dream on by the crowd, but at the same time, but you know in that Memphis series, like the memphis fans,
chanting, whoop that trick and he's when they know the warriors and drama.
Yeah he's just he's in it and then they went and won the series so
I respect the his energy. Never changes on that on that level, at least like he's, not gonna, be a front runner like lucky, he will get blown out and be the exact same guy.
And I think that's just kind of what we're seeing. I think that when a team is losing that just becomes for fans annoying, but I don't know that it has an impact.
Isn't that, like it's justifiably annoying as an incredibly sophisticated way of looking at it? I mean that sincerely, like. I think that, like I have like a little bit more of a like, if I was a warriors fan and this dude played like this, I would I would be mad
and that's justified. Honestly, I tell people are sometimes like. Sometimes the things that they do are awesome and sometimes like the exact same trades,
annoy the hell. Are you in a different circumstance
gimme a files are here, and so is your chance to score big on vandals sports book throughout the nba final scandal is giving new customers two hundred dollars in free bats, gary teed, when you place your first five dollar
I bet the moneyline point, spreads player, props and so much more plus you can combine your bets for an even bigger payday with the same game, parlay game four on Friday night. Let's create a steam game parlay around this, and I I kind of feel like the warriors are going to climb back into this.
Ports of their demise are a little premature and I feel like
going to do it by committing to the glass. So I went to tee
A combined loony over rebounds eight point five. I most
unity dream on over on
it's seven point: five. I think he has a bounce back game, he really better and I can
the golden stay running away with this need
extending a little third quarter warriors into the fourth quarter. So I'm gonna take the over two hundred and fourteen points. That's plus, six, twelve, it's a fun parlay, it's a fun way to watch people rebound. You know not always the most enjoyable thing, but if you've got the same game parlay going on, why not just sign up
I'm code, ringer nba, if you haven't tried vandal now, is the perfect time to give it a shot because
the only thing sweeter than watching the n b. A finals is cashing in on all the action join today with the promo code, ringer mba and turn a five dollar bet into two hundred dollars in free bets, win or lose make every game feel like game, seven with the federal sportsbook fanduel additional partner,
of the nba twenty one and older and select states? First online, real money, wager of at least five dollars? Ten dollars? First, deposit required bonus issue does not withdraw, will free bets. It expire fourteen days after receipt see full terms at fanduel, dot, com, sportsbook, dot com, rg in colorado. Iowa Michigan new jersey, pennsylvania illinois virginia one, eight hundred next, a text next step to fifty three thousand three hundred and forty two in arizona, one hundred and eighty eight seven thousand eight hundred and ninety seven seven hundred and seventy seven or visit cecpd dot org in connecticut, one thousand one hundred and eighty seven, seven thousand seven hundred and seventy stop in Louisiana. Eighteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy eight hope and why or text open wide two thousand four hundred and sixty seven three hundred and sixty nine in new york, tennessee redline is one eight hundred and eighty nine nine thousand seven hundred and eighty nine or visit
hundred gambler dynamic in west virginia, so that this brings us to the sort of main topic that we want.
disgusted eight. I started thinking about this earlier in the week when Snyder left the job so on about four days ago. I was it out.
Queen Snyder was not going to resign and signed a new,
would the jazz he had been in long term contract discussions with them. They had obviously had some front office appeal or with danny ainge coming in and taking over the avenue ownership group there. They have
dwayne wade, playing a role in the front office so times
changing in utah Quin Snyder after a very successful, relatively successful
Rain in utah is good. It is going to take off in your while others are stolen
open job and charlotte. I think it's widely assume that he's gonna take a year off and then be like the first coach. Everybody calls next season or after this coming season and
got me thinking a little bit about the way utah's been constructed. The way you talk is constructed currently,
and a few years ago in the warrior started racking up championships. Building a new warriors was what was invoke when it came to light team billing paradigms and the most obvious one or the
first, I think notable one was what travelling did or tried to do with the hawks where he had some very
clear parallels to the staff clay dream on rules that he was feeling that I think that he took some lessons from what golden state was able to do in terms of having a very malleable roster that could play small could play a big bad lot issue
a lot of playmaking all over the court and that he was essentially trying to do. Also a golden state did, which is
built around in a generation of players who we're going to be at the same level, contract and age wise throughout their career for a while. Now, obviously, the warriors of greatly benefited from the cabin door ants of the world and the hungry it would always of the world joining their team. But, like that loosely like,
and broadly is their model. So I was wondering: is there a boston model,
I was wondering whether or not you tat would be the best test case for this boston modeled, because
They share so many attributes with Boston and in some ways, and I we can go through those attributes, and we can kind of talk about this, but just at first blanch am I foolish it? No, I want to hear more okay. Well, these are two teams that have been at least in the regular season.
in and around one another in terms of what kind of net ratings they're putting up and what kind of windows are putting up in any given season. So we can go through the seasons of the last couple, because I find that the presence of Donovan Mitchell and rudy gobert Utah and the presence of jaylen brown and jayson tatum in boston create like basically, really easy parallels so just running through a really quickly. Seventeen eighteen utah gets forty eight wins. They wind up. Fifth in net rating, they have a wild second half of the season and they get to the second round of the playoffs that same season. Boston has fifty five wins number one. Seed sixth
that they lose the conference. Finals Boston's gone through much more upheaval in terms of their roster, but this core of jason in jail and is still been there, the entire time, eighteen, nineteen eight hundred
when's forty, eight dead, the second best defense, the fourth indent rating. They lose in the first round that same year, Boston, forty nine wins that was the second round outlaw
kyrie and Horford. They were injured the following year, utah nineteen, the nineteen twenty season- utah wins. Forty four boston wins. Forty eight boston gets the conference finals kind of surprisingly utah, not awesome.
increasingly loses in the first round twenty twenty one. Fifty two wins for Utah boston was terrible. Utah was the first in net rating. They still lost in the second round and in twenty one. Twenty two boston wins fifty one utah, even though they had like such a disappointing season. So one forty nine and were third in net rating. They just can't do it in the postseason. I think it's just a drop off from the from like the season before cause that
the two wins was in a bubble season, so it was like like it was like the it was the first seed in the west, yes, and in some ways I would make the argument that Utah is like the ultimate bubble team. Like Utah is a team that just seemed to like really benefit from like quiet, gyms and and nothing but concentration on there
andrew as opposed to Utah now, which ensures pop yes exactly decorated, the than usual ecological, but
like these are two teams that have had transformational coaches, that both of them decided that they've reached their kind ceiling, Brad Stevens Stevens this needed to be be voice and that he was burned out out coaching coaching snyder, obviously, obviously that he had taken utah as far as they could danny ainge has been pretty public about, like wanting to keep coincide. Snyder they've got two stars who have often faced
collation from the outside about whether or not their compatible utah, obviously a little bit more so Barbara there, with Donovan rubies relationship being really like you on the ropes at certain points, I think it's fair to say and they ve both tried to either. Add young stars are younger players around these guys or bring in veterans who they feel. I can take him to the next level for utah, obviously, that might colonies of the world for boston. I think bringing whore for back,
giving this team a little bit of veteran leadership was was essential so in a lot of ways, they're following the same path and as utah decides now, whether or not to break up donovan and rudy. What direction to go in was danny. Ainge want to tear this down and build it back up again, and you know both of these teams are, I think, it's fair to say in somewhat similar situations where going to utah and going to Boston as a free agent is not always at the top of people's lists. I know that boston has landed some free agents in the past, but it's a complicated place to play. Utah is a complicated place to play. It's not. Miami- it's not los angeles, it's not new york. What do you think your should should Utah take heart in? What's happened with Boston and maybe look for their own email, doka or or or try and like basically make another run with these guys and make tweaks in that player,
we through six range of their roster, or do you think that they've kind of run out of time- and this is this- is the best possible time to sell high on these guys yeah. It's a thought on selling high point: it's it's going to be tough, to sell high on go bare right now, which I think kind of gives you one reason alone to try to see. If there is another coach, I can reimagine with those two look on the look like on the floor together. It seems like,
the most part they ve been period like other than now were hearing the you know the jasmine.
but during offers on go there, they ve been pretty committed to those two at the trade deadline. I think that they were looking at shoring up their perimeter defence, and you know they had guys. I jerry
grant in mind, and then they ended up getting the keel, alexander walker, which is so he definitely a downgrade, but is a twenty three year old. Who has a great wingspan he's athletic and he could potentially, if he like, he's he's a good second draft candidate and nothing ever
have him in a in new orleans, but things were logjam there and he was trying to be an off the dribble guy when he is just kind of not so I'm a little bit more cautiously,
optimistic about what he can mean for them, but
beyond that. That's also
I think I've never really tried not to give him too hard of a time, because I feel like they knew
their problems were like if they weren't trading go bare. It's like yeah. Obviously the perimeter defense is a problem. Obviously you guys are too old. Aba seems to get younger transition is an issue and in the playoffs it kind of just became more
of an issue. Now, I'm just kind of really curious to see what were their go from here. Cause like there are some interesting go, bear deals, but you also look at how they looked in the post season
and one thing that I think that they really had in common with boss in all season. Long was just this sense of lake,
migration like a lack of progress, stagnation across the board, any defence with rick,
their anchoring, the middle, like whatever you feel about him just should be better and that it comes down to liked
Kevin Mitchell, not playing as good defense as he could and everybody else
kind of aging, but also just like you just saw the pass, is worn as crisp like they were one of the best passing teams in the league the year that they that they, that in that bubble year, and they just weren't as good this this this year, like the they last on the things that actually allow them to be who they were, which is it feels like
the place at Boston, got two with brad Stevens as well, where for some reason lake, maybe they retired of his voice. Maybe
we're tired of each other's faces like whatever it could be like they just seemed to hit a bit of a wall and to me that becomes the first thing that you need to figure out,
beyond like any any trades or whatever, like you are you want to get in a coach that beyond everything else can like renew Donovan Mitchell's commitment to improvement was like? Yes, one of the similarities between these two teams is actually tatum and and and mitchell and like before before Boston fans kill me for that, and I would say probably more.
so like teach tatum that we got last year and the team that we got started this year and their counting stats in a lot of areas are very similar. They both took exactly like twenty point: five field, full field goal, attempts issue around the same percentages from the field goal and three three point line and were essentially what the difference was, that tatum is way better defensively and he figured out his playmaking in the playoffs and Mitchell essentially combusted any.
Reverted counter back to like a version of him that you know we didn't win, then hey hanging out for the regular season for sure right, just going to the rim a lot less like settling for some easy floaters, like you know, just trying to trying to do every
thing, trying to split every double team, like just our young reckless decisions. This point, like you,
it needs to have a little bit more discipline and know that those aren't really like the shots and he should be taking right. So
that was kind of what happened. Boston right, I think, on on on some level.
If the player had to just tighten up the things that kind of already made them who they are like, whether it was brown to write and and smart as well. Just like you know just be a little bit smarter with the basketball with those guys.
and I just comes down to accountability. The weird thing with his coaching, sir,
So is that we don't really know too much about who
it is like is, can provide that there's a lot of first time had coaches on this list and just like, we didn't really know that about ye may, obviously, the celtic, probably
we'd better. I certainly have to say I didn't. I know that you know Jackie wrote a piece about him and, like you know like there's, there's a lot of like
You may mythology rising going on a rightfully so right now by I like
even as like a sixers assistant under Brett brown. I wasn't like he is the dude like you can just see such an alpha and like
one you read these stories about him like telling the celtics to stop playing like such.
Bunch of assholes in your like damn you just like said that to them and like a fire mean maybe code, you say that kind of thing all the time- and I don't know but like his sort of like I am the beacon of the competitive spirit of this team, and you will follow me into the fog stuff- is like free, brave illuminating and then you ve got like this list of guys that utah's, considering
reporting words as a johnny Brian from the next will hardly from the celtics charles leave from the box, Joe missoula, from the celtics and Alex Jensen, whose argued a jazz assistant plus terry, starts implausible
the goal and then whoever else is gonna wind up starting to pop up in the mixer. You know I mean like I, I have every. I have no reason to doubt that one of these assistance could have
huge impact. I kind of wonder whether or not for as much as it might be attitudinal and like having a coach come in and reshape or reinvigorate like, like you said, Donovan's commitment to improvement figuring out like their defensive identity. This is a team that is paying like fifty one percent of their cap to four guys and two of those guys are not that great at
those guys might be washed in in might calmly and and and the next highest player after that is clarkson. Who is
Essentially, I would go as far say
is maybe, as all that have like a regular season player like I don't really know how often you can have clarkson out on a winning play off. Team may disagree agri, so it similar to the sixers honestly in the sense that, like the six years, have a bunch of money tied up in players that are
it's pretty good or ok or not that great, but those guys are getting older and getting older and those guys are the three through five through through six guys where you're like doesn't really the celtic solve that problem. I feel sick. This alex celtics have their money pretty equally distributed among seven people, aside from brown and tatum in Orford, who are like oh performing their contracts. Right now grant williams Robert
what have you and that's like a really good problem for them to have right? Now? I don't know whether or not you ta needs a roster change over or an attitude ginger. I think I need a little
both that roster as it stands, I mean we saw them, get picked apart.
I don't really know that. Obviously, effort makes a difference, but there's a certain point at which, like you're just a little too old and a little too slow, and just not that fast and and that's kind of what their, what their perimeter
defence is, and they also just don't, really have like good perimeter communication on defence either lake. I think the thing that this
six. Do really well is that they have a lot of guys that can talk like you got marcus smart. You got grant Williams. He got Robert Williams got Al Horford like pretty much everybody on that team. Right like they can be kind of like a communication hub and for for the jazz it felt like. That was pretty much just go bare, so I want to like definitely get like a strong defensive player that is,
The perimeter like that was probably like my number one thing right now, but it's interesting that you put it that way about markets more our orford, those guys the additional guys is because, like I almost feel like Orford and smart or the union yang of like the celtics personality right now, and thus slake its jail and jason are not responsible as culture, so
that's just from the outside, like watching the games, but I almost wonder whether the jazz could use something like that where it's like
rudy and Donovan, do not need to be the spokespeople and the face they can be the faces of the franchise, but they don't need to be the culture centers like on the court. Maybe they follow a guy. Who is a little bit more like you know, like
like basically Chris Paul. You know like something where it's just like a little bit more of like a reinvigoration of what they're doing there Chris Paul to the jazz will be funny. It would be funny in a number of levels yeah, but if Chris Paul goes to Utah instead of phoenix two years ago, it certainly
the jazz could have won the title to your yeah two years ago. Yeah, probably not this team, though, can I can I give you my case for for frank vogel for the jazz yeah yeah. So I think that when you look at this team like they need to take like a defense creates,
offense type of approach. I would say frank, vogel and a really good offensive coordinator. Actually, let me let me just amend that slightly yeah butter gets you re committed to defense, like he's not going to stand for you for you not playing the
and I would love for him to be able to play around with a guy lay go, bear
or really any any of these any these like potential coaches leg would have really go. There's like I'll. I only want to play power forward now, he's like a dead, how,
it's happening again
Really in any wig creative defensive, gouge player
if we were to go, bears like you. Look like the last two years, one of the biggest problems with the jazz just been like that their schemes doesn't change enough on their always gonna be
when it drop the pick and roll which I get, we now understand to be like the best strategy ever in basketball thanks to Robert Williams, but you might want to have a little bit more in the bay gray and to see what you get and see what you get when, like you know, you just get like some some fresh eyes on it like that seems like something that the celtics, just
with with ye, may re cause lake well,
a player like Mitchell and how I'd want to build around him, and it seems like that's essentially the conversation while I mean given the fact that he jumped out as soon as quinn, left and essentially was like the coaching hire will determined by like comfort level with this franchise. It sounds like he's pulling a lot of weight in utah right now. Yeah I mean he's been he's been pulling some weight there for awhile and now kind of
if you're going to see in the coaching search too, because Johnny bryant who's now with the knicks is a former jazz assistant, who is also who also worked the like very closely with mitchell when he was with the jazz, and I think that they they have a very strong relationship. Also, like you hear good things about johnny to like beyond the fact that Donovan mitchell likes him, so I dunno we'll see what happens with that, but this team, as currently constructed
is way too boring to be donovan. Mitchell team, like this guy, came into the league and we were like ok. This is like flash two point, oh like what is happening right now and they were like they had the lowest pace in the post season, the bottom five and in like turnovers that they create like they play such conservative defense and you have. Will you have a bottle rocket?
on your team- and I get that he's like not always going to do that, especially as it gets older, but lake,
Can you do that? A little barely can we get goin in transition
yeah. I I would like. I would like to see a much more athletic and exciting version of this team going forward. So you aren't maybe vogel to do a reversed and tony where it's like. He only cares about defense and then on offense he's just like. Let's roll the ball out and you guys get up
down yeah. It was just running gun. I mean even playing together long enough that they know how to play smart offense speaking of running
and I think my conduct MIKE the intoning is also a candidate. What you think about that is he really is a right that name somewhere
I don't think it necessarily solves like great for minting a a true defensive identity. I'm a fan of MIKE dantonio. I think it would be kind of cool to see
what he did with mitchell and gobert. I just wonder whether or not that's just kind of run its course. I mean as bad as it ever got with Boston that bubble year like it, it was more like trade machine people being like shooting to do tre jail, and should you tre Jalen that it was jason in jail and be like sniping at each other. The way that Donovan and rudy do, if I go, bear I'd, be kind of like I'm kind of fed up with this shit like I'm, I'm I'm like a generational defender like I can go, do a lot of good for some team like let me go fuckin catch, lamella lobs, you know, it'd be fun, be fun. I think I think miles bridges would be a really interesting running mate for donald.
Central, maybe that works, maybe that tree works I mean I think you'd have to like sweet at all, but I think it would be miles bridges and something else. I dunno if it's a hayward for homecoming, oh yeah, oh yeah! Well, I mean one of the things that this team has in common is that they both lost gordon hayward. That's right, yeah, it's the thread,
It's a thread! One trade like the bulls or the bulls of expressed interest, so this is a weird thing. I've been thinking about all the teams that have expressed interest in
well would then turn the jazz into the version of the
team that they already are that wants gilbert. You know what I mean like the bulls have interest in ingleborough and like that, would probably involve having butch a bitch on the in the deal and that to me essentially just like you're you're you're, just exchanging problems and you're exchanging a sense of problem in an office at problem.
And then you're going to look around and be like hey. We can use some rim protection, but the bulls are probably like. Let's say we resign, Zach Levine we've got Alex caruso, we've got the martyr Rosen. We've got lonzo ball like we'd love to have a rudy gobert, just mopping up on aisle five, oh yeah, for the bulls. It makes a ton of sense cause they just like they're filled to the brim with the scoring stuff outright. It's just a matter of what what the jazz would want back from them. Who else is out there toronto or atlanta right yeah, toronto yeah? I personally would love to see lonzo ball with the jazz. I think that would be super fun, lonzo lonzo and MIKE de Antonio. I yeah why it all says, like love to see lavar in
Wait to see how that worked out. Lebron is going to hang out in charlotte. I feel, like atlanta has been in the most early somewhat dubious trade, rumors and they're they're the most interesting team. Maybe we can do an episode on them soon, because they're kind of like a self perception versus what they actually are right now
The weird like the inflation that happened with atlanta after that conference finals run, it's portland esque, maybe is, is going to be really interesting to track through this offseason. I also think that they have like an owner who's like can we be good now, please yeah. They want to be good for sure. Do you like any deals for the hawks? The one that I think would be fascinating would be would be benjamin seventh, oh okay,
okay, so the opposite of rudy gobert yeah, but it would be a barrier not only for the sort of the narrative richness of Ben simmons going to atlanta, but also just like. I think it would be fascinating to see what brooklyn got back in return for that really want, like clint capela he'd be good brooklyn. If get you know, depending on how healthy is
That is an episode two of benjamin's like what has Ben simmons trade value at this point, either of you and I we we have- we deserve to not have to talk about benjamin's until till it's like officially the end of this year, apps
Remember that we had to do it. We did like twelve episodes about pensive its etc. I almost I felt like old near
once like kind of starting or that's right, okay,
so we ve decided that utah should try to learn some things from Boston. We ve decided that it's ok dream on pike ass. He just ass a play that are yakking. That's that's! Where we're at yeah. Ok, there's a lot of things.
But players have done during the finals that were much more taxing than podcasting. I can say, as as a podcaster ain't, that bad guys,
we'll be back next friday, thanks to Chris patten, for producing us to everybody else. Take care
enjoy the fires.
boot. Your credit card with apple card apple card, the first credit card created by apple, gives you unlimited cash back every day and every purchase of the three percent. You can use visa cash right away too
Some are waiting for to redeeming points just daily cash. You can use right away on anything tap.
banner to learn more subject to credit approval. Daily cash is available via an apple cash card or, as a statement, credit see, apple card customer agreement for terms
editions apple cash card is issued by green dot bank member f d. I c
Transcript generated on 2022-06-11.