The guest list for the Hamptons parties was filled with celebrities. But mingling among those guests were some of Ike’s patients. And not just Marty.
Listen ad free with Wondery+. Join Wondery+ for exclusives, binges, early access, and ad free listening. Available in the Wondery App. https://wondery.app.link/shrink
The Shrink Next Door is presented by Brooklinen
Get 10% of your first order plus free shipping when you use promo code THESHRINK at brooklinen.com
Other sponsors include:
Smile Direct Club - Get a $25 credit on your at home kit or book a free assessment at one of their locations, plus save $150 on your aligners when you visit smiledirectclub.com/podcast and use code SHRINK150 at checkout
Better Help - Get 10% off your first month when you visit them at betterhelp.com/theshrink
Ship Station - Get a 60-day free trial when you visit shipstation.com click the microphone at the top of the page, and enter code THESHRINK
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Back in the,
bring of nineteen. Eighty seven SAM Samson received
unusual invitation from I cursed he sent out a beauty
invitation to Everyone SAM New Ike, from when they were kids here.
See. The invitation was in Ike's, handwriting small deliberate
Thing with a unique flourish on the letter g, the invitation
written in the form of a q and a question Ike you never right.
Why are you writing to me answer so you can save the date. Question
Can you tell me where answer yes question
Will you tell me where answer? No, it's a surprise remember. The party was for Ex wife thirtieth birthday, but the location of the party was left a mystery to talk of the name
heard was: where is this? Is it going to take us on a cruise? Is you take?
someone special. The invitation promised a full day, swimming sunbathing, continuous food,
drink and champagne. Even free prefer
RO massages. Finally, we we gotta notification that that he rented a bar
salmon the other guests waited in Manhattan near the United Nations building they boarded the bus, which was nice
air conditioning comfortable, said the boy
look on Rowley through the midtown tunnel and onto the long island experts means row, houses gave way to trees and then words as the bus approached him. Finally, the first row that gravel driver in front of a large house was a huge party and
Yet. Everyone was most impressed by the house walking up the front driveway
Sam noticed the mailbox in the front, it said Isaac Stevens, it will
of course, Marty Margo, it's his house. I could play host at several parties here before, but those have been different. Those had been people Marty knew this time.
It was Ike's party, so somebody asked him. Why do you not have doctor? I sucrose cup.
And I believe he said well the in case he had other patients
by he didn't want. He didn't want patients too,
that he had a houses or something like that.
SAM didn't know was that there were patients who already knew about the house. In fact they were on the guest list. This
I'm a year were all feeling the squeeze on our wallets. So we decide
in the new year. We're gonna tighten things up now. Hair color is
usually something you want to compromise on to save money. Thankfully, with our sponsor,
Edison Reed you dont, have to compromise with Madison Reed. You can get
along quality results. You can easily do yourself at home. That means
call your hair, whenever you want no point needed. That saves you time. While your color processes, you can catch up on email or your favorite tv show. Oh, and you know that harsh hair, color smell Madison re doesn't smell at all
That's because it's made with ingredients, you can feel good about like argon oil and carotene and with no ammonia, parables, phthalates or sodium Laurel sulphate get ammonia free,
LT, I tunnel, hair color, delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars at Madison, dash red dot com use, promo code, the shrink and you'll get ten percent off, plus free shipping on your first kullak, it again that's code, the shrink
visit, Madison Dash red dot com right now to find your perfect shade, that's Madison dash red dot com
from Wonderin Bloomberg. I'm Joe! No sarah- and this is the shrink,
This is episode for the familiar Ike's decision to host a party for his wife's birthday.
Marty summerhouse seem normal enough. Both Marty and I prepared for the event together,
I can mediate began to work on the guest list. It was long more.
Seventy guest, they were Becky Hirsch, cough friends of course, but also many people connected Ike, some like SAM Samson, who had grown up with him, but also friends from medical school and current colleagues. Marty
was impressed. I knew how to throw a party. I will tell you that he knew how to hire the best caterer. He knew how to have the setup to just exactly right.
And he was basically showing off he loved- to show off Marty
rolled up his sleeves and got to work
basically, then enlist me to help him with
invitations and to help
get the whole house ready for the for the function. The party was made twenty fourth a Sunday there,
morning, Marty busied himself, setting up a drink station near the gazebo and laying out the buffet just before noon. The bus from Manhattan Fold up outside
SAM Samson piled out with the other guests and looked around a lot of people
from the Upper EAST side from the synagogue. I think that he was trying to impress SAM was certainly impressed. He and
could grown up together in Washington Heights, which, at the time
with a jewish working class neighbourhood between Harlem in the Bronx. Now here was his
I'll do it friend hosting an extra
applicant party in the Hamptons Obedient
back, though probably very late that evening at night
Everyone was impressed, while Ike, like you, did
pretty sure he was on the guest list because I could just said
I'm up with a new job justice and you know about the fire somebody
company. Would you be interested, I say again: the company was Associated Fabrics, Marty's company. He had
ABC Catalogues Associated Fabrics, cooperation catalogues, like a cop,
table that everyone saw so people.
Ask him. I remember asking am I? What do you have to do with the sword?
the bad news, is again that's my company.
Was full of signs of just how far I could come since they been kids together. It's something hang on the wall with like three or four different business cards. Isaac, courage, psychiatrist, something a business consultant
something president associated fabrics and maybe another one or two, so everyone believed
I use doing a lot of different things. Not only practicing psychiatry, Becky's birthday party mark the moment when everything changed at the house in the Hamptons six years after Marty started therapy with I, the psychiatrist was now the public face of Marty's house. I mean that set the precedent,
for the family functions. I couldn't agree to an interview, but in one of the emails he sent us, he said that this change was it Marty's request. It helped them avoid confrontations with friends and acquaintances who had asked to speak
time there? He says his role at Southampton was much like his role at F, a figurehead.
Without any real authority, but the invitations came from Ike on them. I called the property South Campton any christened the boss, the broad guess from the city,
the south can't mobile. One invitation read our deluxe restroom equipped air conditioned south can't lobby.
We'll leave near the United Nations at First Avenue and forty a street at ten. Thirty am sharp
It will return there at approximately ten p m. There will be a
different full length movie on each trip
these two weeks in advance. It became Marty's job too,
became Marty's job to compile the guest list and send out the invitations to ice friends to the celebrities and also to people like Judith. It was like to be in
was like you are, was bestowed an honour by king at that
king at the time.
Judith was in her late twenties. A short brunette
it recently married and had a young child. She didn't know I from childhood or from me
school and her name isn't really Judith. She asked us not to use her real name. She was one of ice patients
be invited to Ike's party. That means you in the inner circle.
I mean everyone, just this patient, to pay them and saw him. Every week you open
the familiar the familiar Judith interfere
I'm late, usually rode out from the city in the south. Can't mobile Judith felt special to be invited to a psychiatrist parties, but she also felt that she was walking
a tightrope that doing the wrong thing would make Ike angry with her
so you were there to have a good time of his nerve racking capacity. If he slipped up, you couldn't
Maybe not be invited again service, like scary,
Finally, I was like it's like when
you're with relationship with someone who's a narcissist. He can never really let your guard down that's what the parties for like the guest sat around the pool. Joking drinking. So
up the sun. There are a number of home videos filmed it Southampton. Marty still has the time, that's I
kind. The camera roaming around talking to guess he approaches to women, lounging deck chairs and bikinis charities
somebody aerobics exercise her room he respectively, recommend and what you have to show for. Both women are Ike's patients,
the other patient, laughed and said
but she never had anything to say about anything. When she looks it, I can says
set. Maybe your body say about that
we'll send to this later.
In the same video I place matchmaking hosts between one of the pace,
and another guest large
if one of them every orthopedic surgeon here beautiful baby choices
Different orthopedic surgeon tear gas is a great joy common three times a year, I told life in our eight o clock at night the party ended, the bus would come and we would leave some.
I miss Becky or back in the girls, are just the girls would go home on the bus with us. I never did. I was like a celebrity for Judith. The parties became incredible
important as long as you got an invitation, she knew she
still in eggs, inner circle, I guess game
to at least thirty five
he's over the years. There was a big deal, but you fight. That's my producer crystal Rebel,
yeah. Oh my of his like so exciting. It was like being granted like into the pot of his life,
claim that the fact that clients of mine on rare occasions attended the Southampton Gatherings makes me guilty of quote bound
violations. I strongly disagree in his emails. I prefer to his patients as clients we're having an actor we'd all of ice responses in this episode here, the fact
one over ninety five percent of the attendees at these gatherings- we're not clients of any type. Two overnight
the five percent of my clients over the past forty years, have never attended three. A disproportionate,
Percentage of the relatively small number of clients who did attend was in fact business clients for a client. You did attend
often there because of a commonality. I e
we're staying with friends who were invited.
Children who went to school with ours, etc, but Judith had
business relationship with eye. He was her therapist and she found him captivating. We followed him. They drank the coup, laid it felt good. While it was good it didn't
hey. I'm Stephen Johnson Post of wondering show american innovations. We go deep into the stories of the scientists and engineers and ordinary people behind the greatest discoveries of the past century. Did you know that file Farnsworth dreamed up the modern television while he was plowing a field when he was just fourteen years old this week we started to episode series about his journey to create electronic television and corporate struggle that robbed him of his place in history. To listen to this and other great series subscribe now to american innovation
and from wandering hello. Yet whenever I called
I experience, I never knew how they were going to react. So
were upset the here from a total stranger
major who wanted to ask about their therapy sessions. Others felt
can help them and said so many
simply didn't wanna talk, but Judith started talking.
Minute I got her on the phone, so we learned a lot of things about I, oh I used to
I live next door to Marty who, in the hamptons and for the first year I live there
I was under the assumption that it was Ike's house blank hell. It's not it's Marty's house that per capita a few weeks later we met in person and Judas picked up right where she left off. He was a teenager
think the great eyes. Not only did I seem smart and well connected,
He seemed nice. He told her that he could help or make peace with her traumatic childhood.
He was very kind.
And very helpful in promising me that he could have
me, access the memories and put them to rest, and I felt held not physically, but I felt held in his
assurance that he would be able to help me piecing pretty sure of himself, and I trusted him did he held? Yes, he did help. He helped me on earth
everything from my pass. He helped me bring up memories. He helped me deal with my fears of inadequacy as apparent having had to
will parenting by my own parents, I was terrified that I could repeat those very mistakes, cause
that's how it usually is that you become
your parents and he reassured
me that I can be different. I didn't just listen to do is talk about her life.
He also talk about his own life, so I knew his story.
Into his present life. He shared everything Judas
other had survived the Holocaust, so it aches parents and stepsister,
I remember him telling me how much she,
then get along with his father that his father had
another family. From before the Holocaust said, he
and that, above later on that
Father, had nightmares and woke up screaming doing the night hearing. I talk about his own expense
answers made him were later. He was among those therapies
just listen and nodded. Why
uncovering my story, was almost as if these shoes,
and uncovered his eye. Kelp through in smaller ways to Judith, had been afraid of dogs.
All our life. They had been bitten by a dog when I was a child and was-
Fraid. To tell my mother cause. You aren't allowed to touch dogs, partly because of how could virus or chased by dogs sub
you leave now. I'm not allowed to touch a dog, a buccaneer, a dog, and I did- and I got bitten though I had from then I fear of dogs and Ike, help me get up
by taking me to a dog, London and eventually getting me inside the dog planning enemies. The dogs and once Judith had gotten over her fear of dogs. Ike suggested to spend some more
time with one dog in particular his
like the ward, was to watch his thought when he went on vacation
shoot was more than happy to help. I felt honoured
he began to rely on Ike. More and more, I didn't make a move without speaking to him, I wouldn't
as a doctor without consulting him. I wouldn't pursue a friendship without discussing it with him. My didn't make any
vision and my marriage, or in my mother ring without
hacking with Ike any decision, when did that start happening, I dont know
It was pretty organic, it became that, but I don't know
how and when it happened. It just progressed into that. Naturally, I
and move that there times. I was seeing him twice a week before
May we can ill afford it, but I believe that he was keeping me
from having a nervous breakdown of falling apart or something terrible. He
Hence the loom large in your life and make himself there
a necessary and you're afraid to loosen. Then the
Then husband know how dependent you were on Ike
he did. I think he was afraid to mess with it
It was like I had a husband and Ike and my husband was afraid of ice
why does he knew when to hold? I can on me- and I think I
convinced me and I then convince him without I would fall apart in ten million pieces you are, he is starting to.
I'll bet you have to feeling bad
long time and it's not.
Perfectly that want to mess with that and go back to feeling really bad, and if that person,
as he believing that there the way out,
And if you leave them, you'll go back to that
given that he now and you will do things.
In order not to mess with a relationship with their person in your life. You will lead other people go and he will be here
in a certain way, because here is he still addicted,
I mean that the repeated relationship that is not that there
He took any more, but you don't know why the moon
Nineteen nineties Judith remembers that she was paying two hundred dollars for each of her twice a week.
Since, and there was the nineties, so they were ridiculously expensive, but he
kind of I you know you were giving champagne coming up with food
hundred dollars a week wasn't always easy, but she kept seeing him. We could
without eating, but I can go without fear.
So week in week out. Judith would be an ice Manhattan office in
sessions, one of the main topic of conversation, what a relationship
with her mother I was having flashback
A very abusive child
at the hands of my mother, and I cannot deal with.
Might I was remembering I saw him twice.
Week, so I would speak to him.
And I saw em and call him when I had any.
That I had to deal with some of it, was
we have because I was uncovering the lot of memories and it was
scary time cause. I was falling apart. What
slowly did which fell powerful at the time.
Was allow me
to remember things, my my
had done and then allow me to hate her and he almost nurtured
hatred and non forgiving this when we sent I'd Judas
Jason's about a treatment. His response was brief. He told us the Judith had never blamed him.
Any of the decision she made about her parents while she was in therapy. He suggested that I had encouraged her to blame him.
Judith told me that her relationship with her mother was complicated and something she still dealing with
He was a horrible relationship and
line. Then in my therapy
it was deemed and possible, and just like Marty had done with his sister Judith broke off contact with her mother
other, had aches, urging I've only had the courage to tell my mother that I would never speak to her again and I cut off
my relationship with my mother, which was applauded by its
he wanted. It was literally letting evil go. It was the good thing to do. The two of them didn't speak birthdays new years past.
Over, they all, came and went without Judith in her mother, exchanging a single word even at her daughters, bought mitzvah, learn in and speaking times, but it was still expected,
that, for the appearances I would invite her. He didn't think it was a bit would be a good
idea for me to invite my parents to the bad mitzvah. So I didn't her. Parents didn't come, but I did
except in the back of the room, and had we make eye contact with him. While I was speaking, he spoke at
the meal we had in our house after hearing that her parents were coming
Many other family members decided to skip the ceremony to. It was a huge with my family.
Which resulted in me losing hands.
Uncles cousins, my brother wouldn't come my sister women come every one was like: how can you not invite your parents to your daughter's butt? Mitzvah
So everyone hated me, I became the most hated person in the world. It felt like was so hated,
I lost my entire family at the time she didn't.
Ere you all, I'm doing the right thing in taking care of me cause that's what
was told Ike ache.
The wrong way to go
and one day, Judith heard from one of them
few family members. She was still in contact with
but her mother was dying from a rare disease and its
horrible way to die, and in might there
b, we discussed that she deserve to die that way and that she
Didn't deserve forgiveness all because she was dying and I was not to let it go Judas
as I told her, to write a letter to her father listing all the abuse she had suffered at the hands of her mother David. I contend page letter
about every abuse that had been done to me.
Saying that when
He died, I assume so go someplace
without play. A video of everything
He had done and she will pay for our sins. So there was
a total lack of him was our forgiveness, a kindness
and no resolution for me, as far as my
the dying and no peace for me, because it has never resolve
Weren t why he thought it would help you. He thought it would be good for me to get it off my chest, but it didn't do anything when you were in his therapy
And you're talking about your mother ass, she is dying. Did you ever?
say to him. I think I should go see my mother now. I can't say that I did I I just listened
I would have never. I don't think I would have dared to or not
I gave him all my power and I I don't feel anger towards him, but I think he took advance.
Hedge, a my vulnerability. It was easy
the own me and men. My life at one of eggs, parties Judith, had met another patient
Sarah, also not her real name, Sir
was also a young mom with small children and she and Judith became close friends. We were family. If I was the father, she was my son
their and our families became friends
and we were in each other's homes for holidays. Sarah was also
are the familiar. I used to invite her and her husband,
the charity dinners. He loved
three ran the New York Marathon together, but then, then she
had a falling out with a hike, and I was very
explicit that I had to choose between.
In him in her, because I can be happy
have both of them. In my life and my mother,
was near death, and I didn't know that I could go through her death without hike, so he,
Hand me write a letter that he basically dictated to this
the mine ending or friendship
a great loss. The choice
whose agonizing for Judith women,
saying to myself. I can be brief.
Him when my mother's gonna die cause
I can be without a therapist, let alone the person who, when my life, do you remember
how he made it clear that you had to pick. I think you just told me, I don't think
He was vague, wasn't like that.
I just remember was heard him. I think
the letter we will just was saying that I had it
and the friendship because
I am trying to remembers it's so long ago, and it was so bad, and so,
painful that you now you black things out
Just remember the
The thing I remember saying for myself my
they're gonna die in and by lucite. Now, to help me toiling, I think, of
My mother wasn't going to die. I might have chosen because I,
enough of eggs was to know he was
the deity than I thought he was.
But I just know women get through there
She wasn't deserving of me ending the
have their way.
It was around this time: Judith heard that her mothers condition had worsened, who s in half
since I have caused some hospice workers and rabbis,
Your mother is dying, make your piece with her and what
going through your head, when you were when you hear those messages,
had to be strong and my resolve
are wavering. While I felt some guilt, but
I had to be strong in my not forgiving. That was like the position.
Tat. I was playing.
And I had a lot of
good towards her. I it's funny, you would think three a third,
He would reach forgiveness, but I reach
No forgiveness, lack of forgiveness was the opposite.
I am died and I never spoke to her and dead.
Hatred and resentment and guilt followed me for many. Many many years then came the funeral Judith says I guided her through vat as well. He didn't
Think it would be healthy for me to go to my mother's funeral here.
If I really felt they had ago. I should put on headphones,
listen to music and cover with a coach. If so, I don't hear anything being said
but the recommended thing to do, would be not to go
so I didn't go to my mother's funeral- didn't set shiver for her
last recommendation to scare
the traditional week long morning period was extreme Jude,
neighbors were all religious too, and she knew
should be noticed if you didn't set shiver, so she says I helped you come up with a plan,
spent a week in the city with my husband, I gonna, my neighborhood
was the idea, behind the I hand
lives within the neighborhoods. Her work could give out so my ex husband toe people that I was said and shivered in private in the city, because if people thought
then I wasn't sitting in a world like I'd, be like a monster, they did it, but I didn't see big deal. I didn't. I didn't see the big picture then
I was just feeding off that anger in hate and resentment
I couldn't merely see it
in twenty nineteen. Adam Newman thought he was on the brink of making history his company we work was valued at forty. Five
billion dollars. Adam made. People believed that together
would change the world, so how did it all crash down in less than forty?
is, he would be forced to resign as ceo and preside over the largest destruction in shareholder value. Since Enron, I'm David Brown host of business wars and from wondering comes, we crashed a thrilling story of hubris in excess powered by group. Think a cult of personality and the desperate desire to crown the next tech unicorn subscribe to. We crashed and apple podcast. Now
There's a frames
odo that hung in Marty's guest house for years. It was too,
In at one of the many summer, parties Ike is posed on the edge of a bed, he's wearing only is bathing suit and a wide smile
surrounding him are three young women there
All in bathing suits to two of them,
sitting on either side of him, each with a hand.
Resting on one of his dies. The third woman,
is behind like her
a grape down over his bare chest, her hands
arresting low on his body,
and her fingers appear to be grazing his waistband.
All three women are patients of ice.
And the woman in the middle the one with her.
She held a unique place in the familiar multiple people told me
she was Ike's favouring Ike is a brilliant man.
I'll be referring to this patient as Emily alone
not her real name. That's also not her real voice, we're having an actor
the responses she gave me in an interview I like that he had a practical approach to therapy and that he was smart about people
It really helped me learn how to read and understand the people I was dealing with in my life when I spoke to her Emily asked me
not to reveal identifying details, but I can tell you that she's, a wealthy businesswoman was an extravagant lifestyle. Her house, in the Hampton
is the kind of mention that celebrities and billionaires home she was away,
you're at Ike's parties, of course, but he also went to hers.
Many of the other patients. I spoke to Emily, decided to find
therapist at a low point in her life, the more in crisis. You are the more vulnerable you are. I like you that way.
Is treating you to make you better, but also keeping you tied to him. The art
of Emily's relationship was. I was very similar to what Marty and Judas had experienced at first Emily felt like I had healthier
he guided her through her divorce and he gave her advice. I used to get back on their feet financially. You taught me how
control, my emotions, so I could make better decisions
is a period when nobody in my industry would talk to me
he taught me how to get through that in some ways he taught me how to protect myself, but she said
I moved the boundaries of the relationship list
by little Emily says he pushed her to sever close relationships in
life, including her mother. They also started,
the whole sessions outside Ike's office
They would have sessions over dinner and not just any dinner. The fancy is,
and most expensive. Restaurants in Manhattan
Daniele, the four seasons Le Shirk Emily always picked up the check on top of paying a fee for the session. Emily didn't release to talk.
The treatment and he didn't comment on their relationship for the series? But back and twenty twelve when I first started
putting on this story. He said these were business dinners
Over the years Emily says, I seemed to start to expect her to treat him in the summer time they used to occasionally
sessions at restaurants in the Hamptons
Want me to pick him up. Take him and drop him off. I told them once I'll call a taxi and meet him at the restaurant. The
he never came, but he wouldn't just get in his car and drive there. It was like it was beneath him. This is his stick
is the guide, and there is nothing you don't do for the God. She also gave him
Spencer gifts for one of ice birthdays she gave
a ten thousand dollar watch. She says he accepted it. I didn't respond to a question about the watch:
part of the familiar Emily New many of Ike's other patients, including Marty, they would spend time together at the summer parties. She also felt sorry for Marty had no friends. His whole life was Ike and Ikes family and I wanted to keep it that way. Marty used to exercise by running up the stairs in this apartment, building
I like to keep him isolated. If you went to a Jim, he might need someone. I didn't just introduced patients, several of them Tommy.
He would also gossip about them to each other. He spoke to the patients about each other and not in a positive way.
It was like a mother who would divide and conquer.
Then he would try to pit them against each other and then
five or six years into her relationship with Ike Emily,
I wanted to make a change in her. Will she
to see a lawyer.
The same one Marty had seen several years earlier when he changed his will
He says that the new will left a substantial amount of money to Ike's daughters at that
and I had nobody else to give it to. She were met.
The lawyer asking her to write a memo spelling out why she was putting her psychiatrists. Dog
there's into her, will
but Emily says I never actually uttered the words chain
you? Will I get very smart, very manipulative,
he does it in such a way that the words will come out of your mouth instead of his. If you come
the conclusion yourself. It will be much more powerful, so he led you right up to it and then you come too
The conclusion he's been leading you too.
I could never responded to my questions about Emily's will, but in two thousand and twelve
He did say in an email that he had never plotted to inherit her fortune.
Why would I want to increase my children's inheritance? When I am in
children's inheritance should be severely circumscribed in order
maintain their work ethic, their social,
conscience and as an antidote against gold digging suitors. During my reporting I did talk to some patients who had good experiences with Ike. They describe them as an insightful therapist who help them.
Their lives. One woman even told me that I was the first person who made her face drinking problem. That is honest.
It helps started on the road to recovery. I also talk to some of our friends and colleagues. I met implying that all demand about wine CIA, so this was a bit like nineteen. Seventy three. Seventy four show that, like forty five
you're right I mean that almost half a century. This is our book out, a former New York Times Sports columnist and a friend of eggs, and I guess been helpful to me. For example, when my brother at Catherine was essentially dying in Chicago,
I could speak to him. I would go to ice parties
He remembers Marty there and he saw Marty and
together in Manhattan to you. I would take patience and and walk in the neighborhood. He wouldn't you sit in his office. So one of the things the relax- I guess upation he would walk and far from it, but I read it to him and market which, as I run, a red.
Other occupations as is walking weapon to that's how you knew who the various has some of these patients. Where could you
see them in an area, as I would say that on occasion I mean, maybe there were three or four of them that I met along the way a double couple months ago. I think that what an adversary
you're, the only one that I know that he had a problem with was was Marty Marco it. My name is irrelevant
the drought, the road, the
I'm married as professor tree at the envoy
like IRA John met, I in a pic of Game,
both in med school at and why you I first met. I found the basketball cod.
Next, the behind the dawn Adam
Are you John stayed friends with Ike after Med School, and I even gave em office space when he was starting a private practice
I'm not a Hampton. I would go out there for his party. He would throw these big fight
why couldn't you swore wake us during the day but bring the can bring with them
come on. I will have a good time leave water before games.
You aware that he had ambitions at some of those parties. Now, how does that strike? You two ways.
I about it. Talk about it, talk about a very rigid way and say: hey, that's a boundary bridge.
The other way of looking to say a patient before a person dissipation, very human being
her patient reforms laid particular relationship and the particular context and the future outside a bad complex. Then, while the person is really a patient, the person,
I think that some people would take him much harsher view than I do that. I spoke into a number of psychiatry for this story.
And I can say a lot of them- do- take a harsher view of eggs behaviour than John. Does the American Psychiatric Association says clearly in a two thousand fifteen paper?
All interaction with the patient should be for the benefit of the patient and all.
Interaction that could potentially cause harm or misunderstanding should be avoided. When I asked Ike about this, he wrote that the APA ethics guidelines look quite different in nature,
anyone. He pointed out that there's no discussion of boundaries in that document, and that is only so
two and a half pages long back in two thousand twelve, I asked I like how he justified socializing with it.
Patients at his party's, while there was socializing that occurred at these gatherings. None of it was by me. This is an actor again reading from his response,
and the entire time greeting people when they arrived taking them
on top of the property, explained
the facilities and amenities bringing the
who'd platters up from the basement,
sure they remained filled,
placing them when necessary and then removing them when it was time for the barbecue for the four
decade. I barbecued myself,
Eventually, a friend offered to replace me
I rarely if ever sat down except for the occasional photo
one year. I warn odometer, which registered that I had walked over twelve miles over the course of the day. Experts say in psychiatry. A good doctor. Patient relationship is just that a doctor, patient relationship and nothing
ass in the easiest way to do. No harm to a patient is to be strict about boundaries.
I found in all letter from Ike to his patient Sarah curious former friend I grow.
During his falling out with her, and it reveals something important about how I saw his role as you point out.
I did not take the Orthodox analytic approach, refusing any contact whatsoever
have generally preferred the medical model, attending weddings, funerals, etc to the analytic model,
but I hear to four have been successful in my selection process. This time I was not, this was a failed experiment,
egg Cureth says she's. Sorry she ever met Ike, she believed
I exit made her life worse. I think it would have been
calling for me to forgive
my mother, not to forget, but to forgive so that I could have had my peace and I think my life might have
on differently, if I wasn't so full of presentments
the hatred and anger and others unresolved feelings, I think I would have made different choices.
It does feel like you're relationship with hike in in Retrospect
created is created a tremendous amount of guilt for you. It has guilt and left the mess.
I then had a clean I've been it wasn't all years later, till the last few years that I've started,
clean up the mess that I was left with. I am happy to say I'm indifferent person today,
I don't hate anyone, including Ike, I'm no hatred,
anger towards anyone because
I've learned and it doesnt serve me to feel that way.
I'm not a fool. I know
whose than mine and whose done Wrong
I would never ends.
Friendship with someone who I loved
I would never let a payment die.
Never let my mother died without making peace for both our sakes. That would have been that would have been when I would have done after I left eye guy was worried. I seriously considered getting an inexpensive gift to make him feel better. That's how brainwashed I was Emily told me that she had wanted to leave Ike years earlier than she did. What held her back was her sense that he would be hurt. She told me that after they split, I could show up at dinners and parties were, he knew she would be, but he eventually stopped. Emily also decided to call some of our other patients. Mostly people should refer to him. She urged them to leave as well. Marty was one of the people she called
He listened, but he didn't say much and he didn't follow Emily out the door. It was clear. Emily told me that he wasn't ready not yet
from Bloomberg and wondering this is part four of six of the shrink next door, a story about power.
Roll and turning to the wrong person for help. If you'd like to help us
Bread. The word please give us a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe, were available on apple pie, CAS spot, a fine cast box, and every major listening have, as well as wondering dot com and Bloomberg outcome.
If you feel you ve, been exploited by a psychotherapist. There is help the therapy
exploitation link line, helps victims, fine resources to understand what has happened to them, to take action and to hear you can find a link to their website and the episode if
listening on a smartphone cap or swipe over the cover. Art of this part cast you'll find the
so notes, including some details you may have missed,
You also find some offers from our sponsored. When you supporter sponsors, you help us bring, you are shows for free and thank the shrink. Next door was written and reported by me. Jonah Sarah senior producer is crystal ripple. Bloomberg head of podcast is Francesco, leaving
fact checking by Molly Nutrient sound design by judgment
can it produced by George Lavender Marshall, Louis and her nine Lopez for wonder.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-21.