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iPad turns 10, Apple's first quarter earnings, and what Google is doing with the Search design


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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This we're going to transfer to our apple earnings the ipad at ten? What google is doing with the design of search and a lot of the streamers that's coming up now on the chest? You do it all like being a basket, to tuesday ten as to the kids homework, and you do it all in style. That's why we aided the all new infinity queue at sixty a luxury suvs functional as it has stylish and as versatile as it is doing with premium features like it, nomadic moon, roof and available, massaging France's to bring ease everyday reality. infinity queue at sixty designed to take on life in style, now it extremely limited availability contact, your local retailer for inventory information. Dakota is a show about how big ideas really work and where they might go wrong. Hosted by me, neil patel editor in chief of the verge energy ceos, policymakers, tech experts and creators of how they make decisions and how those decisions affect our shared future for better or worse
asked up says, have covered everything from self driving cars to crypto, to social media moderation. It's a thoughtful critical conversation about business and technology that you will not hearing, where else follow dakota reverie finder podcast new episodes come out every tuesday. Now we get started well, we diverge asked the flagship podcast when technologies it's what it's always been. We sat beside right. The last defenders of the open web a friend, eli populars, here data bonus here, I'm that who you know you ve met and erect knows face, which cameras name that do I am today, that's right theater. I want you to we gotta we're going to pump you up for it and figure out how it's great to be that guy. It's like everyone knows you, but no one really knows you you're mysterious. I don't I have a really experience at my life, I'm the person who
vaguely, remembers everyone, but can't remember the name. Scientist full of gambits that are like how do I get you to say your name. There is indeed a bone, got Topple geiger working in an apple store like ten cities around the country and people like just dear me about it. Randomly all the time work easier, your faces and malls across the country. That's true my face his thoughts, If you don't know this vast media signed a deal, this indicate our reviews. Videos like a shopping I'll tv network, which is greater than I love it like that. That is great again Eight years ago we had zero million in and now vetoes. Shutting also across the country, but it me we often get pictures of d, his face being like here's, a crowbar cook, a threat shop in its in the shopping mall in my home town, and so like
people that I literally haven't talked to in high school. Just maybe like what the hell man, sorry, that's amazing. I told you my my great hope for airlines, I I decided air glasses are fundamentally a terrifying technology gap, but I want them because I like calls that you can see my face everywhere. The outer space in almost so great yeah the what a arm since platform, is gonna, be open enough for me to install that plugin into it. Now I to be able to have glasses. It show me everybody's name, that's it. The killer, app our glasses were might by telling you who people are so don't seem like a jerk to enable that the one I want you. a massive database of people's faces names ass. Extremely problematic, open, real time, facial recognition in real time they like ok, that seems leg now get some benefit out of it, but every day
like literally every supervillain in the world, will get more benefit out of the air in moscow. The police harboured just launched real time facial recognition across so does everybody know each other's name. I mean at least give the people that you're going to surveil them to death. Like there's like a push notification. The police like found this person right yeah. then that everyone's round, like an amber alert to to the police, that we found person because Neil I looked at them with as they are glad you meet the person, you meet them by introduced themselves. At that point, your gun, it is in your glasses, only learn their name, and it does not shared it's not exe, traded given. Then you need like you can you real quick, grow, a moustache and for our glasses so that the next time I see you, the model is accurate. That's the problem. Some people who have drawn a beard. Neil young, see a date, gonna do searching for article for
it is. I just want to talk about this for two minutes before retiring. Well, the news We do in interviews show every week this week are the embryo houses of neo young to think say wine. I, like half forgotten as we record the interviews like weeks ahead of time, especially around it in t like we just have lots of them banged up We've been doing a couple of weeks lately cause we we we want to be current, but we still have we. We don't overload people. So it's a hard balance. So I'd like half forgotten that neil young had yelled. For an hour. I remember what had happened like if you will, in episode. I'm like laughing all the time because Andrea producers like in the next room- and I was staring at the whole time in what is currently happening taken aback, was he yelling or is yelling at you? It's on a clear from the audio, This is what it is like. The problem with being the interviewer is that you have to be somewhat
then you normally are because you need the other person to talk sure site read his book. I know it. wants to say writing to get him to say to me. Consider view shirt here So a lot of my questions are like how does sound quality work, which, if you listen to the virtual ass, you know that I have its stream. We set opinions about sound quality, so My questions are just like: do you think macbooks are bad? I know what I knew any reasons, sir. I just like the little play acting component initials he kept getting matter matter. I was on a calibrate work. Where do Where do I greatly here's? What save tat interview. Having said all of that right, your sexual. They guess one. What is neil young keaton for I want to be respectful to literally a legend of of the culture He is extremely wrong, but I just want to put that I want the audience to know that, neil young's idea about
while audio always being superior, digital audio is funding. Entirely wrong, like just on its way. I get what he is saying about sampling in quantity. She errors not getting hold of a by all that I understand it, but when he's like A cassette tape better than any digital file cause you can feel it am. I know it doesn't it just? Doesn't neil young, but he was so mad at me. Didn't, have an opportunity to say that again it has announced. I don't. I don't think that he would listened his effort, but I think He was getting out when you continue together. When I do believe is that we often, especially in audio, because you cannot. There is no objection give way for two people to compare the wave it. I enjoy picture look at a screen
We cannot compare hearing that way. Just doesn't exist, he's around. We, we often trade, be in reply. I just don't think that lake cosette singles represented any sort of peak equality. And you know like vinyl- has actually pretty low dynamic range like it's a secondly, the degrades over time, and you can only caught the groove so low in. Like actually did you have here, the wrong thing into the photo put on a amp. they it sounds, are weird it's because the Dynamic range of a record is modified, so can be caught physically into a groove, and then it goes through while the are a double a curve inside the funny lamp. In the third stage to come back to normal, Like that's a lot of annulled, processing in compensation for the limits of the medium. You do that with digital tv student do so anyway. It was very entertaining and wherever and had a good time. Many people treated me about it.
in. A sign of a good interview is like when half the people like neil young is right and then half the people are like. You are dummy, yeah sure, like I gotta we're all talking about soundcloud again. all right, then I do not think that requires fisher price on air quality. I think that's it's what you put in, which you get up, and I think that on vat was billy irish one every grandma think who is every city on unprecedented the chief, but she is made the music in a better amusing consumer tools and logic, acts like ina, there's, good and bad neil doesn't agree with me so but it's like amazing to wake up. Oh my, tuesday morning. You like, oh the neo young interview hit. I through here apple lots, apple news this week, I'm sorry, it's history on sort of earnings. Are we darwin earnings, real, quick apple, made all the money they didn't make. All of the money
I will tell you there's two thing I mean they set a record of the iphone eleven and eleven pro did really well sales records numbers. I think the big news for me is that their whereabouts category is soaring gap, so the apple watch, airports are obvious, hit. The services line, was little down, it was a news to me- is you'd, expect after spain, literally the entire year, not being able to form a complete sentence without using the word services that this quarter or some there be some kind of major growth there, and instead it's just the shaggy now a lot of this. Is there still like I'm not much money, getting from verizon falada apple music deal. I don't know if they're, just not bank any revenue yet from people, everybody, that's getting the free subscription to apple tv plus
et cetera, et cetera. Maybe this stuff is sort of a slow build and then bang it hits, but I was expecting them to be be clocking and a lot more money and one of the possible. Analyses here is the idea that apple is. Going to be able to extract more value out of its current user base is maybe not obviate, maybe not obviously true. It may actually be harder than they think to get people to pay them extra money and when you know, and when they're using a four year old phone or whatever gaps. So it's well, it's harder for at the services is not an obvious slam, dunk way for apple to make more money with the same customers, but air pods is an apple watch to actually they. They couldn't make enough appalache, three serious threes right, two hours and slip theseus gives someone's by this by see my theory of apple. Like a vacant, This makes the thing at the holiday that you can buy.
Loved one that you don't really know anything about. Alec jade year fifteen cure some airports. I love you write like That's like it's a slam done for them every time they pull it off, and if you really love them, you get a proper energy engraved on exactly. I just think I was very impressed this year on Tik tok that airport where the demarcation line between rich and poor, yet get em So that's what I mean for a long time, right, yeah, but it's still a meme at its very import yeah, but what then, pods pro then I'll, pull out. Some new ones will keep the old ones around it by one twenty nine they're gonna keep pushing down to just destroy the margin which great they should do it I think it's just an easier celebrate historically, where they strongly sell hardware at a premium to make lot of money doing it. Everytime they have a hit hardware. Product does really well for them. That's the nature of having a hardware product, the services piece
That is way more streaky. You think about the bulk of their services, revenue we ve written this harm, wrote it a while ago, it's all like in enact purchases and free to play games yeah, that's the money, that's all the money, it's like There are two candy crush whales out there. The tim cook like keeps an eye on weight. Appstore revenue counts as a sir, yet the app store and purchases in the abattoirs these by far the bulk of apple services revenue, so that's great ripe. When you think of services, or your instinct there to react lines up selling me on. I cloud story. I am this mythical apple television thing, but I haven't yet. I think they ve got everybody thinking of icloud, maybe not even I caught source, but they got everybody. of apple news, ample arcade apple, tv, apple, music. It that's not it yet like apple tv as even real. It's like everyone has a free right and bank in any money. Yet I am it's: it's not purchases roswell one thing!
and if you, if you think about this, that costs dynamics of the other stuff in purchases, but just free money for pull the no one has to make anything like game makers have to like irritate you and pushing a button? Do something right So there is no cost of production setting a hundred percent profit, but apple tv. They got a big higher jennifer anna synergies, witherspoon. They gotta find an elephant the elephant around not jennifer asking. that's another yellowstone saying The markets have to show up. They have to throw them up. It's a party for the premier, They acted, jason mamma has a scowl, that's not free show is so bad someone, pretend jason momo. That show is good. That's where I very expensive, and I gotta do it again though shows they get it. Do you ask screen. Are they gonna do a whole thing is very expensive for tv they got a higher richard propped poplar. Yet
They get a higher the excess hbo guy for music right. They they don't on the music. They got to pay a bunch of licensees back out to labels. I got to do at the advertising for apple music for apple or No one knows how that works. Gas. Europe accept that. game makers, and none of them are talking, so do they pay up front? Do they pay per time spent, but there they still have to pay. They have a product that isn't just like you pay them five bucks a month, but they have to put new. aims in it over and over and over again to make it work out, so they just at the push of a fortnite competitor, that's a kid friendly, which is really fascinating, because microsoft and it's earnings specifically said xbox revenue was down because of fortnite. How so actually because people were people are spending so much time in fortnight, which is a game wherein microsoft doesn't make money selling you games or selling you, microsoft, genome services, xbox cloud services, or whenever that they made money than they expected to in, like their export division and there
suspicion was. It was a third party title which is code for fortnight. That's amazing, yeah suspicion, that's like they have absolute telemetry to know yeah yeah average. per minute spent on the xbox was down so there's a there's, a violence of like two things that we have been obsessed with into different track. So on this show. We have been obsessed with the question of will apple compromise user experience in order to make more money on services and in processor and and the newsletter, and also on the does all this ipad stuff. I've been upset with the subtle ways that your behavior changes because of the way the user interface is constructed and it all sort of crystal free with this new version of phantastico just came out, because if you just think about the way that apps work, They are constrained in very specific ways by the rules that apple has set up for the app store people getting pushed to subscriptions earth.
Everybody knows how in at purses and games are, you know, constructed in a certain way. That apple doesn't allow you to admit that there is another way to subscribe to something outside of the apple store inside your app. All of that stuff is a pressure. Changes your experience. That is completely to you, unless you are like really paying attention- and you have very few for us to actually change it or work on it with the apple tv plus you just choose not to subscribe, but with your apps, unlike what games are actually made in the first place, that's like a third order of effects of a change that, in our decision fischler, made two years. We go and that's a much harder thing to track down. That's really interesting of how many apps are like. Okay, let's think of what app we can build and like well, no there's, no business model for that. There's no business model for that. There's an obvious business model for that. Okay, let's make a candy crush yeah and I think what's what's he brought the t v one. What's particular,
the interesting about all of their services, but tv aspect, is They know what the business model for the tv plus service is there just not confident that it's gonna work. So it's not! That because what they really want is tv up to be the homes screen of the apple tv, and then you open it up and those you buncher shows you can watch and use, the h hbo inside of the tv up on the apple tv our much a month and apple takes a cut bright in every month, hbo gets build, an apple takes account, and then you like, I want all she whatever's on showtime subscribed. time on my apple, tv and apple gets a cut in every to show times rosy in ample takes a cut. They have that hundred percent profit button built into it. Writes iraq purchases in that b, but instead of getting the next level in candy crush you get h, b, o and h, b. O its cost of each reassures wherever that is The model of the amazon fire tv, that's what it works
kind of zoom out and swaying, do they just making it the cable box. Everybody wanted, right, where you re plugging in the cable, to tell it exactly what channels you want it bills you per channel and off you go they're, just not confident, because not everything is there that that can be the default interface of the T. You cannot subscribe to just for freight espn on nothing yet because disney wants disney, plus right disney plus won't give up the interface. apple. That way, it will show you the shows inside of it, but it won't do the like actually subscribe here. There's just like a lot of that going on, but You see at least that the model is their workable, will promote the morning show enough so that you open this app now. We ve shown you bunch other stuff, maybe you're ahead subscribe and which we will take. Some money that's actually direct money, that is the business for windows. Ten now give you the, alas, for free, and we will. Let will lead. Work with as many apps as possible and
blah blah blah blah. We just hope that when you have an open up windows to do your computer stuff, you will subscribe to one driver, microsoft. Three sixty five yeah, but like it's okay, LISA make sense like I can. I can explain to you how apple intends make money there, even though its like it has opened on the payroll right like that seems expensive. How are they going to make that back at five bucks a month? It's like! Oh there's, this other thing they want you to do. I need to buy this other stuff that cost them no money or that is pure profit for them yep, but hps running costs. What is that for the ark if they get implies at some point, there is going to ruin apple arcade by asking to buy stuff inside of it well unless games are just cheaper, in some ways, so they actually can cover the cost with the five bucks a month or maybe they believe the spill over effect, just by dint of being in a being an apple arcade. You might get something outside apple it is a little bit unclear think there might be a second order affect their here
You are wrong and then the other one is news which seems like an unmitigated disaster like it. Didn't I just didn't play No one likes it. Some kind of too expensive Show the media like this is an expensive enough in particular make enough money here. That's The times isn't it and that's why the post isn't in it, and I think that's just one of those where it's like what is the is going to put on my enemies, publishers, demolishes. Are you sort of cod is about it, is it a real? this for them, or is it just something thing they felt they had to do to complete. This bundle like that, I think Paul. Your point is like when you were surprised about it being the app store That's the servant that still the bulk of the services line, while this other if they want is totally unproven right. What our kid it's interesting arcade is, in a sense it implicitly critical of like the least the games revenue. Yeah they're getting traditionally the others not like now massive upside right, though the one
person who's buying, farmville who's gonna spend ten thousand dollars this year was no arcade whale. You you can is cost money by buying and playing all the games price index. not even more financially, but god, so the thing that under goods all of this round big Emily around is This also like I will scruple services well, on the other hand, like you get trackless when you play an apple arcade gained than when you play regular mobile game, get trackless when you watch apple tv than we use other. The upper you're smart tv. You can track less if you use apple. Is that if you use the web so that there are like these really there are these privacy benefits and tracking benefits. That apple really wants to push and really are real, but it's clear? You know that is eyes apple. Do because it's the right thing or because it also happens to hurt like Google's business model. The answer is always both gas, implicit in that is its a good to check our assumption.
right and everyone's assumption is apple cells and most phones, My assumption is they're gonna ruin the user experience of the phone by pushing and services america. It's gonna be a juggernaut That's what I'm just like always wits mayas! It's it's a sort of my default assumption that it will be successful. It's a pretty safe default assumption. like if you control the user interface at a phone, and you want everyone to open your news app, you can probably get them to do it right now. Send you a million weird pop up notifications that are like the senate has reconvened and, like I don't know, actually wish. I knew ass right like, but finally, you end up in the news I think the narrative is like. Maybe it's not working as well as we all assumed it may be that service arabia isn't didn't grow the way that he thought it would this this quarter, because its is easy as they assumed it would be yeah and that, I think, is it. We're just gotta keep, cabinets. It's good said. It's a good to me that you have a monopoly, doesn't just always get what it wants, which, yes,
Many people constantly remind me of that, but its tax policy it play auditing is is, is, is useful the important thing to keep an eye on is if we're right things are doing as well will act I'll just go and let him live along and then they'll eventually die like mobile me and it replaced or will they like try to force it and if they try to force it? That's the nightmare scenario. Yeah grey, I just took my positive and you turned to know that okay policy, your point about business models is wait a sec way into the ipad cause, I've had turned and this week, dieter read about it. Tom worn, write about it either the most the two most unexpected peace, I saw where, from John gruber, who said, the ipad awkwardly turns ten men and Ben Thomson called it. A tragedy in both of em are pointing at the fact that the app ecosystem the ipad has never had it has
shot right and it's because of these weird business model problems it's because people think mobile actually cheaper whenever cheap or whatever, But dear I'm curious, even you you thought the most about the ipad as a computer, If anyone in the world, I am cure four european. Well so, with regard to gender, I hate to say this, but I told you so I've been writing awkward. The multitasking is on the ipad for a year or or especially with I, was thirteen but how its unattractive, in my particular definition of the word intuitive, which is easy to learn. I've about how it mixes the metaphor of time and space, you know like all that stuff I but now, I am still interested in the ipad because that's the only o s really trying to do something new with user experience, user interface on screen right now, I really is so I'm not as angry about
foibles of house light over works on the ipad, as a lot of other people seem to have been on twitter, but I am super work. about it as a computing ecosystem, because the the thing that kills the eye that actually makes it a tragedy is the value that you get for pushing true and learning all the weird ways that it works. When you try to become an advanced user. Is it high enough to return on your invest? bit of learning and time isn't enough to make it worth. While you might better off just using it as I could. You know, netflix in reading machine and not trying to turn your computer. I think for a lot of people, people that have pushed through it and have got their return. I'm not saying you wrong. If you are, if you have me The ipad remained computer good on yeah, but I say wrong and put out there you go and then you know with the applicant. I think, the ipad garden he kept by the decisions that were made earlier on to price absent ninety nine cents right its view,
very difficult to convince people that they should spend a lot of money on programmes for the ipad aspire. only when you know there's all these others like you, I things in front of it and then, on top of all tat, the truth about the ipad. Is You get ninety six percent of the experienced by buying the three hundred and three dollar ipad that you do when you buy the thirteen out of dollar ipad yeah you like from for most people, there is functionally no difference between those two. I pets. That's when I, when I think of the word tragedy, that's it right! There's no app ecosystem that leverages the faster processor and I've had proved so we just bought max who is not yet to an ipad in, And one of the big cases out baby it's easier to feed the baby when they're watching you do you do that she says fisheries and we play finding during the great
at three hundred dollars is a perfect solution to a wide variety of Paradise. So, like ok, there's but we it. But within the same month, we acquired the cheapest ipad. They are destined to be destroyed, and then I got an eleven inch ipad pro and light yet one swiping in one s, face idea and one as whatever, but like it here, the data they I knew could hand them to people without the combat it. Took away the home button, disparity, japanese and which ones which it would be really hard to tell them apart right, like really hard from just I'm. Using this thing, I'm seeing apps open and close like almost impossible, and I'm like I tried push mac. I trow users, computer and like that the applicants- Some of the things that are hard to run is the kind of not their death, but at the same time it is a great computer for the plane
it is almost entirely replaced. My beloved told inch backward, which was my plane. You bureaucrats wrong. I don't need enjoy using any computer more than I enjoy using an ipad. I just hit that wall yet and say what the state of right for me was: students nevsky talking about microsoft reaction, which is really actually kind of line. What you guys we're talking about microsoft, thought the apple one apple: how to create a response to a network. It is amazing, lied about the or had set of debt books. We knew that networks and Adam were really just a way to make use of the struggle struggling efforts to make low powerfully. Was until chips fourfold about results over here like covering for the fact that into Hell can't make a phone processor by making you don't very popular, but very cheap law powered possible books possible that is insignificant revision of history.
That is a you have to. You have to have in redmond and only seeing the world through the filters of microsoft, to believe that that is one hundred percent. What happened so, but so, but through this filters of microsoft, they're, like oh apple, is going to make a tablet that will run mac apps and have a pin and we're ready to compete. Yeah and apple came out with a thing that is not exactly a computer still Definitely was it when it came out and I've talked a lot on this podcast I don't have to rehash it like. I have a reason to use all the processing power at the possible like for an a4 on an ipad, because that means I can add, like more audio effects to my tracks, and I guess you know record more things
you know the music ecosystem. Is this amazing ecosystem, where people pay for apps and acts are amazing and they work together, and it's wonderful, it's very different than using your computer, but yeah as as far as an ipad replacing a good number apples, computers- that has definite so can I just a dress their revision of history. There. First of all sure, if you saw the iphone, and then you heard apples gonna make a tablet regular. Definitely just gonna make a mac with a pen. you're on? Why there's that's what what? How did microsoft miss mobile? They saw the iphone and irregular devil gonna make a mac with a pen that makes no sense Everyone knew it was gonna, be a giant iphone and that's what it was. Maybe side, microsoft. They all did what I did. What a ton of people did. Is they got a dell, many nine or adele the ten we attract and tossed it. Remember, though, those so that's the other revision, the atom and networks.
did not launch with windows, media I remember the first netbook seuss eee pc. Where one point, I had just the flat specks memorized because they put out a new one every day and that's what engage it did and oh nine. in the same smacks this one's blue, toinon sonya the pc ten eleven has been released, the same specks. This one comes in a safe home like that's what we did. I had macros respect line of of those networks, but they lie Should linux and rubber there, the eee pc operating system, those custom version of linux and, like the ceo of aceh, johnny. She was like out there being like this is evolution in computing, and we the moment of like living some adele, Europe is here and then my ass off panicked and let windows go on it like suit
I would say just as significant rewriting of history, there were like well, everyone thought they were going to be a netbook like micros, Did he ever make an outbreak? They panicked in allowed windows to vienna books. and they held that speck lying down, which is why it was flat because they didn't want, the margin, they didn't want more powerful, netbook to steal that still share from the mid price pieces I'm gonna get it like. I'm sure that is basically went down and the same the edges. a key, really sorry, I found your I shouldn't. Have we any gap? you haven't see I've had next man, I don't know we need We need to polish other view with specific clear asks. So that the next time apple holds an ipad keynote, they respond one by one and they did with the last one world your arm.
who said netbook a thousand times you mentioned during his aunt Joanna was the best that book reporter in joint eastern was the better at book exporter in the world. I will ask her If my version of history is correct and I were missing, as for the other, I think they need clean up the just there's an make elevate easier to understand, and I was fourteen paragraph two or whatever they end up calling it. I think that they need to open up. I even more for what apps are allowed to do in the background and with what they're allowed to talk to this sort of layering on functionality and top of functionality and top of functionality. I think is it's been great that they been giving us news. So we can do like Hooray usb drives by Eventually, you hit a point of diminishing returns and this isn't a perfect analogy, but the original mac s, had features laid non till I get pretty basic core until eventually broke,
they had to go to us ten right and that future, I think, might be in the cards for the ipad. In a word, we again this is. improved analogy. Do no yell at me. Yet it is the colonel was of I've had it was right, but but just layering on oh people, want to do this thing will find an eight will make an a p I for that. Oh people want to do this thing will make an a p I for that and is great for security, but it's not great for creating a general computer platform that people can do new and imaginative things that you hadn't thought of with computer
and even with phones and some in some ways, but definitely with desktop pcs. People thought up of things to do that. The company that made the pc hadn't thought of and with the ipad, if you want to do something with the whole thing and not something just inside an app you don't get to think of that, you have to wait for apple tv permission to do it like well and at one of the worst cases. In my experience with the you know, music, especially like, if you have samples, write a very file based workflow, so there are a ton of file accessing. and there is a time of file accessing in all these different music apps it so basically everybody either rolled their own or they'd. Like point, you too, like audio, share something like an app that had custom files that so there's like seven different you ip arms for working with files and the now there's a real files api and so that that whole ecosystem, like trying to recombine is, is a total mass so anything,
we're up. Developers have found a way to work around the fact that apple wasn't providing api there, almost worst spot now. That applies an official api fort, because the kind of have to support both men- yeah. You know it's funny, I'm all right Complaining about you know: apple building, special hook for its own platform are like lifting features from. That where ecosystem in building the men in the not letting people do it like rights it at the beach. Example. Is like airports, so you cannot build in airports and better because you have access to the us. The worst example is like the flashlight app ecosystem. Like went away, went right like apples like we were just. We should have a flashlight needing use it from control centre in like a bunch of flashlight ab developers like disappeared, like is that a problem like does the antitrust engine meet affair? needs to start so somewhere, and there is the right answer. I think that's the spectrum
If you don't enable people to build those new experiences, or to modify the user interface add functionality that is totally unexpected or not foreseen. then actually have nowhere to steal from, but you dreaming, You can't even right can't you decide what we, I guess Yes, no ideas are forthcoming, except the ideas that we have in. That is like a real that spiral for a platform to that. One thing is allowed sensibility the platform, I think it's a big ask. That's that's the one that I would want and they they ve tried it several the four ways. You know you look at the share sheet and you can just like every eye caught in the share. She does apples like huge attempt to like have extensive. in the way that it wants inside its garden, siri short cuts that you know they buy after the workflow thing and they're doing that same thing. I just think that all that stuff is not as developer friendly, as is it ought to be like it's great for writing. Macros. But you know you got to write. Macros are macros and micros to do any
seeing their yeah my bay ask would be that they'd site. I do Is this thing on a plane all the time I use the multitasking, I'm sure of in your camp deter like if you figure it out like twenty five per cent. It'll it'll be fine, if you have any interesting going beyond the like this, the confusing nightmare I can get two apps on the screen at once, like I have slack and twitter open at the same time like okay, that's like I'm good on a plane, I'm good fun, The second on my own need open a browser and everything goes away any get one single in like I would have preferred this to open or sock was and leave twitter a lot like if you're going to make it insanely complicated, just let it be insanely complicated, right like let that window in paradigm just be way more free form than you want it to be. Instead of trying to control it with metaphors, I think maybe way better off. It's that the imposition of their metaphors adjust blows. The whole thing out of the complexity curve entirely.
This is how windows ten does it. He opened up a new app like which side of the screen you wanna put it they don't they. You have multiple like spaces and bought like unless you want to. You can enable bunch spaces, but that's their tablet, vote as a basic and straightforward, but it totally works, and if it's not enough for you, you just turn it off and you got windows you moorish like him, good for you to take a break secondly, more about product design shortly I I promised that we complain about product design. Do you want? I want a google search thing it's a big deal, it's another one. Where am, I feel kind of like my assumptions, gacek, but tell me what's going on so Google rolled out a redesign and Google's claim is that they, they, to enable more trust, and so, in order to do that, they put the you are elles above the title of the web page and that they put the fabric on for the website. Next to the url and
there are two other like well. We ve already got this whole like framework of what a search result looks like let you do that for the ad and so will be a big, add word and then we'll be there were Alan it'll, probably, but at that turns out that it made the ads the visually distinct than the rest of the search results, and entire internet, went what the hell, Google and within it They are like we're going to experiment some more and they basically rolled it back or they just started moving fabric cons around and now that they're messing with the way the google search results. Look- and you know I have many feelings on a lot of this, but the the thing that blue my mind. The more I think about it is this: is the company that tested thousand shades of blue and figure out. What was the right thing? Would that would work and did they really just role? with a redesigned to their most important product. By far the thing that makes them the most money, the thing that, though most people look at and they're just like oops and then within a week, they start screwing with it.
Did they not really actually test this thing up. The was you yeah. It's me. They must have their argument was. This is how it something on mobile for a long time, which right is terrible argument because school results on mobile are just a landmine of like you. I corners that google money or like we knew the answer is simple. Our mobile, so not gonna, send me to a page richness, scrape the data and put it in a card mind if you like, the one true result in like oh now, is that the correct result is we helped gonna get mad at us today? The if you're wondering if europe is not a google today, the answer is yes always are. I think, like today, test I think we do, I think, with a god. Was more people took on the ad and I make more money. This is what I mean by my assumption, being checked, being checked, jewels point where, whether by far the dominant search engine noise in america, but
everywhere? No one else has any meaningful market share right like it was an day and my hands at the trial. So if we lose our doktor go placement, nothing happens. If we lose google, we lose our business get right. So it's like a that's a big deal for them. So now you're out of market share to conquer you're. Out of your, Sent incentives to capture more users are gone. Your incentive is We get more money in their rivals We will have you as we get more money like we'll. Just make the ads look more like the results and then more people click the ads cause they won't be like. Oh, this is ash look I shall continue strolling fourteen pages down past all this crap tat result. I want what we checked my assumption. there's an outcry, but they want to do anything. Are still google, where you giving it a being, but they reacted in they rolled back, which means they still kind a care a little bit which, like that's nice, Can I an even worse scenario, you just
cried the scenario where they like. Oh this makes us more money. Let's do it total by mustache. What if they just didn't see that it was worse? They weren't toys. sash. What if there were just naive, because this the thing that ice. What I saw tat I owe this makes sense. get it. I understand how you are our work. I understand what africans are. I actually look for five icons. All my bookmarks bar of advocates. That's identify it. This is how I use the web. I get it! What, if everybody. Google is like that far out there like junior web land like me, and they didn't realize this- would be a problem. Let me let me answer a question by slipping the sphere what, if I said, all those things but was facebook. And we are you my fortune, facebook to say it is greater than you can answer the question. My way. Forced for facebook actors are division, facebook, even with facebook. I don't know, do you give facebook the benefit of the doubt. Do give google further doubt which is worse. The answer is it most be like facebook did this, because our evil raise forgotten.
For revenue, that's what they do, they're always doing that facebook is bad. Google still to this day as repetition, like a bunch of lovable idiots who just want it. Make a map if by accident they scraped, everybody's wifi, addresses and put a camera on your face like yeah right, like that's their rep, and I think it is just time for that too. Yeah, like I, we know a bunch of goobers, they are weimar. like sincere seeming people, there is no way that iran change scale to your largest revenue product in some one has not modeled the revenue impact of the change. Of course, so one I use doktor go as well. I don't know what, where these, White lie: I just want to say some years ago: it has fabric cons on it. So when I saw these articles are like doesn't search already. Look like that too. In my experience of watching
I use google over their shoulder. Everybody clicks on the ads gag. I wonder if it's even possible for google to get a bump and add a click through because they already do get half could through like for every single, every single search. That is not like, because the only thing that I think about with luella is that google is sort of like up it's not just a search engine. It's also kind of a launcher Google is kind of how you navigate to you know. How do you go to what I don't know? What webs or website that is non confrontational? a new new candied of easy how'd. You gotta, move right. You, Google, news added, you click the first link. That's just that's just user interface right I saw that I dunno there's an aspect where I wonder how big of a blip, how big this actually did, how how much this actually did change Google's metso. This is
theory that john a seo Buzzfeed said to Peter kafka, happier Peter kafka's code be a podcast what you should subscribe to it. You know what google ads are actually bad. What if they're not like apple geniuses, lords of the universe. What if people, just click on them cause they're at the top and they're? Actually not that effective? What, if they're like you, know just what, if they're just kind of bad in terms of their like efficacy, I don't buy it Second- and I don't like, if they are not about america- ineffective, like Google, can't seldom anymore, because people can measure the return on their due dollars spent so give us every incentive from their actual customers with the ads perform better in the best way to make that's where from better is to make them more like real results, which is I have gone from having a colored background to not having a color background, tonight, asset off to the edge of my having this tiny little am. I gone to like just looking like results,
time? Anybody wants? You should give google the benefit of the doubt just show them that picture of what the ad separation has looked like over the years, and yes, like it's so obvious, google is full of very smart people, and I, like I love the notion and google is mostly lovable nerds. He just like my nice things, but the more like morning about how they run android, is a platform. the more we learn about how they run assistant is a platform. The more we see things like us. It's like yours, ruthless as anybody. Is your logos, primary colors, and then we think that makes me a little bit dumber than normal, yeah, okay late, but this is half. This is half ruthless half. Google is because I'm testing out this wild product called Google I rarely you search for new out, there's no better radio, then Paul using google for the first time. Ernest core news first result and add for news that calm and it's got than the break out like business national debt.
Well, those ads with a bunch of searched for the word news with k with a cat over the news is the first result, but it's an ad, then it's top stories right. These are a good This results, I guess for news. There is mostly using search in the world. Then below the fold. Is new york posts news story about canoes and then its canoes dot com. So, if canoes Cam doesn't buy this app, then they are literally below the fold and there but more to to be clickable can't. Can I come in Take one quick break for the audience. I just want to help everybody understand what happened. Ok, news corp any ws which owns dow jones and so ass return all which owns the new post, which undermine just athletes, river murdoch's thing newscorp. They,
launched what I would say is like a like: a tech, meme invokes dot com had a panic attack together. An aggregator. I think it's a technique for regular news, but it looks wild. He has news, K, n e, w z, yes, this is this is, the talk of the media world yesterday because it will looks wild and its the news, they had a press release that literally broke my brain. It was so Paul's I what if I was searching for canoes, in those that's what you get eta. What I'm saying is if they weren't in the Google ransom two to to have an ad. Then they won't even show up above the fold on a google search, so so Google's argument to. You is the way that the around the works is they cheat made some changes to foreground news and foreground newness novelty, and this
also a brandy, url euro that nobody's linking to, and so it there's not a whole lot of information for google to go on over time. Canoes dot com will be one of top results, although it won't necessarily be the top result because of an ad that might be they pay for it, or maybe someone will try and conquest it and it might not be if it continues to like be a thing: that makes canoes. They might stubby stories about canoes, but it not being the tops result is a factor works is Google's claim sure, ok, so that the real example is- do you have my answer, the guys on base camp at the hearing the honest hearing? He is like you search for base. Camp ads for monday dot com above base camp in so right tax. If I want to be the first result, pay, Google, the money to just be the first result for our own company name brand, which is fine the conquest, and that is that, however, the real thing is, if some-
violating a trade mark. Am I doing bad one? Google will clamp down immediately for it products and everyone else has to go through some, like byzantine bureaucracy, because they don't care, because it's all this money coming in. anyway, Google searches are confusing landmine of problems, but its dominant and so like. What we have not said here is. We should also add that I go or is being If you look at being being, is being his turn into such a near perfect clone of google, like I'm, not even sure, switching would do anything. You would just be have a worse experience with the worst search algorithm like it doesn't matter. Doktor go. Has three news: any ws results on the top, then the news which is apparently a band in buffalo new york, then the facebook page for that ban
then canoes dot com above the full. Why just search for doktor on Google and the first result is an had the doktor hope for itself for tax. So do those wanting coming our right to give web technology data I would say that you went through roller coaster of emotions. He day when scroll launched joy, Finally, what scholars scrawls I've dollar months, subscription service that if a partner website is partners with scroll, that website does not serve. You adds disclosure of ox media, which includes verges partner. So if you sign up for scroll, you will not see out on the verge. It's not an ad blocker, because the ads never get show up on the web pages, first place. So when the verge sees that you are a scroll user, it's like! Oh, when we load this web page up dynamically, magically we're just not going to put the ads there, for you sounds like oh, okay, that's cool and interesting I just to continue a soldier.
dieter, nor I made this world deal yet I did so. We have no idea was happening. I learned about it from your tweet about it. Now Actually what I learned, I learned that it had come live from someone else's tweet, so I thought I knew you'd like in the back of my. That. Someone somewhere restocking this role, but I have no idea what the details are: big company. He gets get some insulation anyway, you got so the way that it works. this is this is one of my early resin revelations is how as the verge know that you are a scroll user well and there's a cookie of course, because everything is a cookie and what that means is like eventually could break, because all the browser makers are trying to change the way cookies work, but that's far the future whatever but scroll it pays out based on in a what websites it Caesar searching, and it shows you a history of literally every website that you look at, and so here is a tiny started, you ve, never heard of who you're paying five bucks a month too,
they get your entire browsing history at sea, that seems like they promise. I won't sell it. They promise you no privacy, etc, etc, but it also seems like it is a data mining time bomb, I think, is the phrase I used. Yeah yeah, It's like one of those like if you run out of money in this doesn't work. What's your most valuable asset, its like a bunch of targeting data yeah, but it is time We are handing over two years a trade off You want like a bunch of anonymous, trackers and google to have it. Can google unseen add stack or do you want tiny company run by a senior like is down the street over here reprisals it's actually it's not or I think it's and who knows how many about how many tracker they do turn off some trackers apparently, but I don't know exactly what I am I have third party cookies turned off. I can't see google fonts and I also pay. four scroll, you should just use links. Letter text
see ya need a pretty much a pretty much there but like I've. You are relieved here that you guys are also concerned about scrawl tracking everything was really day. That's what they they just have to it's. It's so tough, like I, I felt horrible giving scroll this much information to be employed in their tracks. All my browsing so that I dont see adds better. Same time. I've wanted something like this forever. While there is something vaguely like this, you there's the brave browser, for example, which blocks and may or may not pay creators depending if they signed up with brave, etc. It's crypto, scam battalion every time I write about the web. I have I buy in boxes, filled with anger.
Brave users who are mad at me for not talking enough about brave all of those people also own the nvidia shield, and they also all right and at the same time I guarantee you there's a ones who, on nexus of nvidia shield owners and brave users in crypto, stands and in one day they're going to light up the crypto mining ability of the nvidia shield, and it's going to be there's like a harder problem here right. If you want to build a business like this, ere, you pay in some money as a user, and then he died money to the things you actually visit. A hush just on its face. Abstractly seems like a great idea. There is almost no way to do that without some sort of centralized billing and tracking right you have to. You have to trust somebody somewhere or already deliver your money bit going. lightning like there are there. Missing ways of doing micro transactions without centralized their party like
brain browser, if you, if it ill, if in august, built in your browser in your browser, does everybody has as its whereby why I refer to as something that's, not bitcoin as a scheme as the report does not escape, is because most crypto things do are. Just shell game and have a centralized third party in this case turns on friday the pray pray corporate, but I don't like. Say so just to do that you gonna put money in it. Gonna like deliver some currency to you somewhere so it stored in and I can go out right. I have like my own physical bitcoin wallet due to my computer everytime eyebrows regrets that doesn't seem for every and there's no way to do it across platforms like you need some. You need to put money into the network,
in our view, immediately at that same problem, if you have a lightning while you can pay like goody yawls is, is a website that does micro payments. Were you just pay directly to to read a store? You pay like ten cents and you just pay with lightning goes through a couple seconds. a lightning while the you have. You have the money you possess the money and then you pay and adjust goes through runaway bs. Traditionally, with every single micro transaction said, it is like that where you have to pay the money in its stored by somebody else, and then they dole out the pain and I'm sorry I the whole privacy conversation like another example of the same thing, but take it out of that model. I. even your times every month and I have to log into it all over. The I spent always you're getting there are logged in man. This is like a central complaint of three new subscriber on the internet, is why I logged into the washing posted this time already paid you money. Just leave me alone. Why that apple is aggressively delete. He third party cookies,
or your login information across browsers and states like what, You can do with that right, like how all the problem of not tracking you when some of them basic things at every consumer wants require the browser to know who you are requires the website to requires you to identify yourself to a website. and without some kind of tracking somewhere, but like just This who I am- and I can tell it to you, like it's impossible- to build consumer trains- is that we want in the web, but then a disaster or privacy? Next to it? worse than that, because even if you come up with a very in principle, smart aunt, I tracking method, separate the payment thing so safari has intelligent tracking prevention reaction in time. For this rule is wild story yeah. So it's safari and firefox. They both have got different ways to prevent fingerprinting there used to be this. Button called do not track and like a cool, if you click do not.
then, like a website, so no not track. You know it's over cookies out to be great, I wrote ignored it and in fact it turned out that do not track was another signal that a website could use to identify you via this method. it's fingerprinting, because when you visit a website, there's all sorts of information that like gets told like it's a it, does support touch screen. It doesn't support touchscreen or the the web. The browser is this. Big it's this resolution, like all started, a web page needs to render rain and enough of that information adds up and they can identify you So Google's answer for this is a privacy budget that eventually stop Peppino. There's arguments about that happening. Right now, firefox is answer- was what we're just gonna make a blacklist are a white list and, like anybody, that's bad cat. The contract, you apple solution was very clever. Thank you. Now. If we just you weightless that'll get games. We know this privacy, but it needs for web centre stuff. We need to fix this problem right now, We're gonna do is work. Any use onto machine learning- and we are going to tellingly, tried again
whether or not a website is trying to inappropriately fingerprint a user using machine, machine learning is good at identifying stuff overtime right and great, Amazing super smart, super, clever, great technology. Google researchers figured out that it be and yet another fingerprinting yet another way to try so they told apple and they told safari insofar as it oh shit. Ok, they fixed at right angles fixed in december, and now there is a paper out explaining it. So, even if you can imprints I'll get the entire web ecosystem to agree that there should be a payment system and in principle you the entire web ecosystem to agree on a methodology, for system that seems very clever. You're still gotta be screwed up feathers and always
it's an arms race that is just very very difficult to when I agree that arms race. At the same time, I feel table scraps at this point arduous. Basically, I want to reject cookies for everything, except the thing that I'm, simply logged into right. Now, like I re just don't, I dont think there are legitimate. You says there are enough legitimate requirements that you have to have all these cookies to make it worth the risk do you understand that rejecting cookies no longer is sufficient to stop you from being tracked. I know its not sufficient, It's just it's just where you start out. It's like how do I stop following onto lives, and the like, ok will first refers, will take the knives off the floor. The kids like that might not enough, but the first first of all, like will support crisco on the night shift. So confusing metaphor is a very bad interesting Do you remember
now you're right. I just think this tension between what outcomes do people want is just tumors remember that I pay for the new york times right like class. sort of like user story like as a drivers. In your times. I would like to be logged in overtime. Ok to get there the. Puts knives on the ground. You know what they are. The step is like well those knives battle of the floor and like that, I think, is it's the trade off and I think one of the answers here, you could totally these centralize it, but then, when someone is about actor, wakefield they'll still get to, though This thing where you can like ok, actually intelligent tracking prevention turns itself into a fingerprint overtime great and though just be about actor in that's an arms race. or you could say, we need with a system where the sun
to realize players get punished if they become the bad actor. Which is like how you and a better gdp our situation You ve got a data, you are, by law. To tell me what you, have if there's data breach address so ass above the level of law, yeah that's the other solution. I think we are seeing kind of both models plant yeah. I think so. I think that solutions that, while the fight over what should the future of cookies weber his big. It's back to this earlier discussion. We had of do you trust, Google, or not, Google's like what, if we create a privacy budget and let us work together to create new ways to create you know ways. Did they give websites where you attribution for clicking on ads above all of law, because we don't want that. We want to have this arms race and everyone else is like yeah, but taking it
slow, really benefit, you can try. It all sounds like there's no market signal for this stuff right like who is too. How can you even possibly begin the vote with your dollars in this world, like you can like? Who are you paying you're, the product, salad, I don't like that. I think is the other side of it is like whether the advertisers, if you talk to see a most in this world, its yes I've lunchroom they keeping like while you're the cookie free world, is coming in that is a big deal for the advertising industry. I think that's the the spirit behind a lot of luck, opensource, decentralized efforts. Are that I'm not I ultimately don't want it to be up to their company of whether or not I get to be safe online. I want to be able to, on my own ascertain that,
safe and maintain my own safety and privacy to the extent that I wanted, and I'm not asking for anybody's permission to achieve that on my behalf, because if I wait for that or wait for government to order that it's probably never going to happen sufficiently, the only truly sufficient privacy and safety that I can ever achieve in this world will be something that basically cobbled together on my own yeah. I think that's fair, I just think I'd say the level of complexity required to do that is not appropriate for most people. I think that's a very much detention. Ok, we'll stop there and then, when he yell about streaming wars that you're ready for this or take a break, we'll be right back. Paul Miller alone every week. Do you insist. This nation come destination country. This is her boy vision and age, accord, gutting it's like. we're all we're all it or bedrooms, watcher, ipods and Paul's. Like dinner,
listen! It's only the disorders and jerk withholding country together, not just like what the It's called the cloud, but for kids out this actually to stories on along this line. Theirs is really cool speaker. It's called the auto player. It's designed by graham which, if you remember, are the people who commit like design that really cool. Looking jp you, while that airbus, The auto player is like a connected speaker, but for kids, and it plays audio based on which nfc card
is inserted into it. So I write it of sea card, kudu, music or or an audio book or whatever. But importantly, the all the content is in the cloud right. So look at the end. see. Card is really just a url for the four that the media. That's in the cloud. So that's got me thinking of what, if you had like like up. I got mad dear m apocalypse world where to listen you all the music. cloud at all in spotify or apple music, but to listen to it. You have to drive to best buy, or am I forget what music stores recalled? What what
he's extort names is SAM goodies out any tower records tower records. You gotta tower records you by political of sea token that looks like a cd. You put it into your computer to unlock the album on spot, if I thought, thou be pretty cool anyway, southern think about, a bunch of a bunch of nintendo switch games are now you go to the store to buy a physical box. You open it up and there's a download code in it, not a cartridge yeah. It's amazing It's not a cart, see that's the thing that there's something so compelling to me right now for whatever reason about like switch cartridges, but it's very important to me that the data is on the cartridge. Otherwise it's so maybe I am always like. I want to buy the physical media, but what I want to consume is the digital version like what, if the internet goes away forever, I need physical backups of this and insight
I mean the inner goes. Whoever like for that. Long like something worse is happening. I shouldn't I shouldn't watching gravity in html, what my time, at the end of the world theo s washing things, Cyril cereals, this sunday, material, which is heartbreaking, there's austrian but we do pisa cameron wrote it had a watch super all and for caged here, now. If you will recall early this year fox started doing thursday, night games and forty each year we are big peace there, like rare, just doing, kennedy Pierre and the cameras and have shown a forecast setting out the tire, as upskilling is very good initiatives feelings, but they like the big deal. Shooting hd are that's the hard part, but we think it's meaningful upward surrendered up, got excited in basic. We owe me like fires, customers.
one cable box and directv customers with especial box could see it comcast dropped out tonight for this, they can reach a deal and every spring platform to get it right cause. It's to heart. Now that only this role in it, you can the superbowl streaming in forty hd are, if you have like one, of two amazon fire devices, like the fox app listed, rogue who on their website is being able to get importation are, but they told us we're not percent sure it'll be for cable. We if we can tolerate shorter working really hard and they follow tv. a streaming service that you can also pay for, if you wish they're saying they can do it, but no one's ever seen it so we'll see So you don't want to ruin for tasty, are basing you're fired with one of two fire devices you with me so far and which you so far
Ok, you know you can't use casey apple tv. No, you cannot This is all related to a very quiet, very nerdy format, war. That is like the death of me. Why can't get only apple tv cause fox is shooting in a format called h, algae, hybrid law, gamma, look at it by any change pan and bbc. In the uk, it is an issue for me does like well suited to broadcast television, because you can basically we make a stream at is downward compatible. Ok, So works live in n. You send the same signal. Tat, sdr, tvs, nature, tvs, yessir tv is, can you show you sdr and each year to his figure out? That's hd are an in depth revision the true. I must say this phrase. Now there are known as peak hugh formats peak. He keeps to henceforth perceptual plant I'd, sir, care they require meditative stream. Sure ok,
is a different thing and they are not down compatible so got us into different streams. Almost nothing supports hiv. The apple tv hasn't supported brokers done sport like it's just another format, to supply right now we're in the world. We want to watch super on hdr. You gotta figure out how to support it too. Can I convert it? You can like do all this other stuff. Apple doesn't allow you to do any hard core video recording their boxes. That's why the youtube is that, unfortunately, an apple tv, because you want to use its codex, the apples, color So foxes like ready, they like hacked fire tv to make it work, didn't really nothing Therein wrote you and are in china with apple cause. I have to do this for conversion. I don't think apples. No one can I can I make even angrier. Yes, you know those magic. I posted Oh my gosh, where, like you look out across side eyed and the picture pops out, you know when like standing at the ball? There's a group of people, syria, the magic. I posters in someone's, like I see a sailboat and then
I see a sailboat and then on the third person dies a year. I see it too, but I'm totally lying. That's how I feel at ease. Do you come over? I haven't eaten. For t v I mean we were like siesta. There's one place you can see in the eye searingly bright as I did eventually get a tito edge. Why are you such a book tv? Why do you still by his I refuse to get the horizon cable blocks? That gets you? Gonna have to get out of my face with that the tv advertising decode hiv. I watched some games in in each year. Ok, it is If you are paying attention remarkable, you actually see. Detailed comments would be like David come up for it. it's only brighter just much more detail and it's a wider relegate it right there. More is actually more tolerant version committee- oh by the way, add just to make this even
more complicated as private tv allege, it's a big sign when Tito edge it has dolby vision, but don't you didn't tell anyone that there is actually to version versions of dolby vision as a true story: one is decoded on device and one is decoded in the tv sony was like we're only going to support the one that's decoded on device, because some latency issue yeah, ro didn't know they they didn't know Dozens of hordes hole with nation like tv and all this is important forms like what's up with its like. Oh yeah, we found out about these sony tvs. Microsoft had to do as a quiet, updated the xbox sport sony apple. How to do a quiet, date and the apple tv support sony amazing. They just made accustomed or revision profile for sony in. I didn't tell anyone about where, where some of the deed goes in certain others like there's even inside of this bad format, warders. Yet this other x factor of like
What if Sony was a little bit dumber than ever three of the foot when, when when there was blu ray vs? What is what is fox sports, get out of using a weird aged hdr format that nobody else uses, and also Would it kill them to trans coded on therein and send out like up you know up not a minute delay on it, for the for the superbowl for the plebs. Do you know how many like gamblers would die if they had a minute the way of the soubriquet? Well, they just still think could be warned have you guys ever watched the superbowl streaming in like an apartment building? It's me because there is a delay, and so you like watching the game, and then you just hear somebody somewhere secular, you mean, I don't know it's so the benefit is sony it's a lot of the broadcast equipment in the world and they are all went on a broadcast side and each right
right. So this is like a standards. Battle is happening with a bunch of liars over there and so like the broadcast world. Is weekly standardizing around hl, because you need to do sort and you can send out one signal that works for both sides is what I am told. I mean to have. I talk as long as there's just like whatever you say solely well, I mean they got us allies. I mean look here here's a solution- they needed May I, too, of the format, diving and taking get enough to eat k fighting, but what about what's crazy to me? Is that obviously you all everyone has the same televisions that they're not saying you have to buy this or that television. This is a box that is going to trans code, this hiv stream into something that the television can handle. So
I ask you kindly the fox does that earlier on in the chain before they send it to their. So I fox is doing it earlier on in the changes it says. Kerensky says the fire. Tb stick for K and the fire to be cube. We'll get the fork hd our ten feet, vienna what's up big and deliver it to those, they show you of urban areas, but there there's gotta, be some underlying technical reason, pretty confident it's like they were make sure they get it right in that they can do more. With what our effectively android apps on fire platform- Then you can maybe do with morocco or depend on the processing power of a row coup and then you are somewhat not even somewhat you streaming constrained of what you can do on the apples, so you're saying the nvidia shields going to knock this out of the park nvidia as soon as you turn off your bitcoin renderer and switch that processor power over? To render that I really do
So that's just to get hurt people, videos shield I'm sure of referring invidious she'll. The bitcoin render about me I didn't realize you, we do not talk about three more stuff. Last week with comcast, there's eighteen t earnings this week, there's a lot going on in in with the legacy companies streaming stuff one. I and I have a fact to share which I think is really interesting, but you go tell me about eighty first. It there's its earnings week. We type up learning everybody else. Had earnings. Jeanne tease earnings were basically yeah. We took a one point, two billion dollar revenue hit that we won't normally have to do in order to secure content, because we're really gonna like make hbo max a thing and then
julia generalists and the call and choose tweeting at and talk to me about it and slack and like every question was like I don't understand what you're too How did you tempers like? Well, you know like hbo, it's gotta be a thing Five Jeez could be a thing and then there's a rocket, we're not going to say there's gotta be a super cycle, but we're not not gonna, say there's not going to be a super cycle in my judgment, recycle. Well, you know people wanting to be over this. the free tt, and then they want five g to get the h b, o faster, so they buy a new phone and now they've got a new phone and have they got a new phone they're? Obviously gonna wanna watch some h b o because they got a new phone. So that's cool. Will create a whole, a virtuous cycle, and it's like you are making a giant almost bet the company back that there is some sort of synergy between hbo max and five g and buying a new phone, and I just don't believe that any one of them rio, those connecting things in that circle, a real, much less, all of it together, creating a fly wheel.
mean I'm in eighteen to customer. I also pay for hbo yeah. I someone. Unsurprisingly, on a phone yeah, nope Gee, I mean ok, you ought to see the it's right like that's and business logic. Imagine the ad you're right. The new samson galaxy s, twenty five g plus and get a year free of hbo? That's what they can do right, there's not much more. They can do, but so that the thing in this this comes from Carl bodes article on the verge today the day were recording. Thus he should go, find it too, very good, its titled eighteen. He tried to buy outs streaming oars and costs We are paying for it made me realize that a few years ago, we all one, because we stop paying subsidies for our phones, that the costs of the phone wasn't built, and we too have to your contracts. We owe much clear pricing what the subsidy for your physical phone got replaced for it with a subsidy for
If some random streaming service you may or may not want yeah right you're like it, don't think that you're getting a t and t or eighteen, I don't think you're getting apple music for free and verizon right, it's free, but is it free, yeah and don't take the h b, o max is going to be provided free to you, a t and t customer? Is it free? Is it really free, and so You can't not pay for these streaming services. If you have a phone now rise in wireless is another example: creamy away free for t mobile customers kiss you ever wonder about that. When we go now t, mobile, bundles netflix and sandy elden netflix its paid for their subscribers. That money comes from some are going through the list. I don't know who which side is paying for it. One the carriers are paying the stream and services Verizon wanted the edge of having disney plus for free. I assume that maybe it was like disney wants to get in front of a bunch bible.
Where these hundreds usually work. I am told how all of them working in, like specifically but then negotiate was called a wholesale weight. So there's the red array, a gap producing plants like whatever verizon again. T some minimum number of sign up, they get a wholesale rate on them, and then people actually sign up the data holes Is that how all of them specifically work? I don't know the details are usually the shape So it's really interesting on this I am told comcast, which owns and me universal, which has as yet the investor invites me about. My understanding. Is that the little bit of competition from eighteen tee in five g? in the shenanigans like home, internet and bundling and all the stuff here god comcast the point where they're gonna start to say tree all internet traffic the same. Maybe you can sign up this crazy mobile service on five g that may be just as faster faster than the wires in your house, but agency or
model the video and do this weird bundle, pricing and blah blah blah, and we won't member us a good old, trustworthy wires. Mcgown comedy look at that and it's like the tiniest good of competition has pushed ass to be like yeah we're gonna go ahead, not advertise net neutrality, I'm trying to get them say that to us like from executive director, but that's what I have been told. I had stupor interesting. If that's, the message should go out with I'm hope. I hope they do break as it would be good. everybody, but it's funny how you know when when using, yes to the world that comcast would send a zero rate embassies peacock drug none and are we everyone we want our inaccuracy differentiated from the weird shenanigans novel carriers Every mobile carrier does weird bundle. Pricing, net neutrality, garbage so they're like what, if you had pure, in which I cool, but what they are actually commit to, which is a thing him put em
this is a bit of a tangent, but these that- and you know, there's always these ads for, like you know both for seniors and it's like a phone call. Where, like that, it's like twenty dollars a month for a phone plan and you can get the foot phone, what the big buttons like. What's the catch like enzo, It is a cause of unknown. The olympian knows often have in a sense like less price, already than the traditional customer. So maybe they get worse service, and I thought that was the main catch for why an indian oak offer cheaper than verizon verizon service, but is also the case that these carriers are spending. So what's on content now know so they envy. Now that I've learned this more because the t mobile sprint deal right where gmo. Spent will combine and then dish network will stand up a fake fourth carrier It is really just the t, mobile and vienna. While it builds on network and so like the
argument is. Embryos have traditionally not work like that. Wanted to start your own carrier in your first me was to go to t mobile and by a bunch of access you would lose, can t mobile Make sure that the rate that you pay them is enough to price you above them right. That's just natural, why would they let you compete on price with them? There's no reason had on frozen customer Most envy knows our customers that the carriers dont want or are small enough, so they can be over there or that are too hard to service, so What's like the most successful, I mean as a boost boosters mostly lower income people right now, it's too hard to get the money under them like they do want to sign up for a private postal contracts, illness and prepared, like that's. Why they're, mostly pre paid and vienna, because t mobile as a business is like just be guaranteed some money from this envy you know and they can handle the hassle.
Senior citizens. You don't want the fanciest foam I found whatever the can serve them at a lower rate because t opel's like we can't foist quibble upon them We'll just I take some margin and not have to worry about their customary one deal, because we know that there was a pretty cogent exe. Nation, but I think we could do better. I think, if you're listening to this, please pull over your car and a tweet at remarkably handsome and cogent actor ryan reynolds as a co owner of meant the nba no and ask him to come on the verge, cast and explain how ambient noise work or yes, please. Dry reynolds on average has talking about the economic. The wireless industry would be incredible. We will I believe shill his aviator gin, Jim are the I could make an exception pull over, aspirin reynolds come on the votes to him and agile pie. At the same time. That's what we're not so much on duty. I've had a meeting.
There are no rules in their eyes. Authors is a part of it. but I think we're gonna circling around here is like they have now all spent so much money to do this thing right to to to marry content with the network because they all want to be fancier than just a pipe. Do they have to pay it off. Aching tee, in particular, has to pay off suspend its exit show for eighteen, and that means they are going to do the scariest things in the world to get those hbo max dollars out there, and I think, like what's I've and it before, but what's the virgin story in the world all of our threads come together? Are hardware review programme are policy conversations the inner is covering this information. It's the end next year. There are launching it max and may give it a year right? who happens to beginning, but by the end
last year. You will reasonably be in a position where, when you buy a phone formations, he it comes pre loaded with cnn, in cnn. Will stream for free in fox news? Will not right in, like you will be in a position where it one of the largest access corporate since in the world is preferentially pricing. One news outlets over another in our idea, ideologically opposed. in a time when, like that polar nation is worse than ever, I guess recline archologist wrote a book called why we're polarized and like this one of the reasons, because we have actually we're good price information differently. I think that's like it is just worth thinking about. Like you're gonna buy the four hundred dollar algae mid range, android phone from eighteen t, it's gonna come pre loaded with their media, and if you want any other media, you're have to pay extra in when one way or the other- and I think that's like we haven't quite grappled with the we haven't, thought that through enough
It's like everything. I've been yelling it out for years. I'm sorry people in your car is he like heard it up before. It does not surprising to you, but it's it's here, it's like which weigh more real and I think people are giving them on the credit for what do you think trump like one, stop. The murderer is he's the one you like planet metering, generate funds, son anyhow, that's true. It's not quite yet like they're, not there? Now until may peacock is alone, Intolerance like we'll see what they do, but you, you have a bunch of big big media companies that are actually parts of big big eyes: peas and I got to pay that that comcast is raising its raids. Eighty he is raising rates on? U verse and directives. drivers like they're trying to me. Up the money, while people transition streaming in its like, causing a little despite because raising racing sheep quit and that's like right, I'm going to catch up to them in a really big lion
I just think it's interesting. If you're gonna spend this much money like it, it seems to us to open the gateway for somebody to additives, space, internet or something something that isn't encumbered with all these extras tube to to truly be competitive. I have no idea how thou happen, but it seems like there's an opportunity here if their truly gonna jack price, to get people things that they want the amiable, sea or the mean their argument. Is this what you want right like what people I mean a classic cable pricing in amerika for twenty years as the triple play, right, you're gonna Europe pay comcast, deliver you at medium, ass, internet connection, a phone line and cable television and to be your provider of those things, and everyone wants that bundle we moved all the video to the internet, so you don't need the one part of it anymore. More but you're still getting the bundle. It's just like you just back at it again in the question
this is our people want, or do they want more ala carte access like I don't I don't know the answer, but that bundle is definitely getting reformed so, except for the farmland part by the way you can you can, if you've, if you in fact We did ryan reynolds about the votes cast. You may now, DR again you don't look, I think, there's one part of it that I think is better than the old bundle for sure is. You can quit way easier right like you want. I encourage you. Do this right now: go, cancel using plus absorption. It feels great and then you can sign up again, for I like that is way easier than cancelling hbo for traditional cable, I that with the card is to wait until I can. I've got the time to belgian too week and sign up first CBS all access again for a week and then cancel. since I think that that is different. It will lead to different. Humor behaviors, but the bundle is just like the feeling towards us built into access because they got it. They gotta pay off legacy. I think like that,
the sort of consumers out of it makes sense that ever uncut, who knows what eighteen years up to they, have to collating he's saying all time like they have to tell their investors but the pot where are the largest wireless carriers? America are excusing their preferred services from data captain making you pay for islands is like a little dice here I'm gonna blow your mind. Real quick. The business model here is paying for access to infer structure and then getting content as a bonus sent a lot like amazon. Prime yeah. I mean right, like where's apple, going to fit into the lake. Are they gonna pay? Verizon agency?
for sponsored data the the way that those companies would want where's that has netflix in it survive in a world where, where they have to pay for peerage fees, like that's all the stuff in there I gotta say amazon started trying my patience lately, I feel, like all the good shows, all the good murder mysteries are like you've, gotta pay for like brit box, or something like that. Like the actual amazon prime, is pretty bare, and I know it seems like they're trying to ups I mean it's like already pay. You had more than a hundred dollars a year. That's the real harm, start ups elements. oh hard. That's there. Actually ronnie Mala every a great story. It's like Prime video is also has bunch like you, are submitted videos on it inside the long tail of that libraries just a bunch of really wild crap initiated on its own vocs. Lacerated! That's that's it! There's enough there's a folding samson phone, but we're not gonna talk about it at this time.
Next week you just think about it'll, be discussed. You just think about what you did. You can do it cedars at back policy, japan on it, because we love hearing from your data telling about your newsletter. I have a newsletter is at the verge dot com, slash newsletter, it's called processor. I write about computers, it's very good enjoy it. I enjoyed a lot all right good to see next week record on Paul. Snap, snap.
Transcript generated on 2022-06-02.