« The Vergecast

Sheryl Sandberg leaving Meta 🚪Volvo using Unreal Engine in its cars 🚙 WWDC '22 preview 💻

2022-06-03

Nilay Patel, David Pierce, Alex Cranz, and Alex Heath discuss Meta COO Sheryl Sandberg stepping down after 14 years.

29:45 - Transportation editor Andrew Hawkins joins the show to discuss that latest car news, including Volvo using Epic's Unreal Engine to create 'photorealistic' graphics in its cars.

1:00:04 - Segment three covers what to expect at Apple's WWDC next week.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Three on the verge gas. Alex heat joins us to talk about the executive, shake up had matter, then any hawkins will join us to round up all the electric carnies from this week and of course, we ve got w w c predictions for next week. All that more coming right after this, this episode of the votes cast a scratch you by future. If you want to get serious about your work out routine for the new year, I've got a great idea team up with a personal fitness cook and build your own custom work out on future. All levels welcome features, and after that set you up with your own personal coach will develop routine and keep you accountable every single day every month, you'll get unlimited training sessions and work out with your only coach for the same cost is a single personal train. Accession get started right now with fifty percent off for your first three months at try future dot com. Slash verge again, that's try, feature dot com, flash verge
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in fort carson headline. I was like that was me. I know I did that it's good to have a legacy. It's all I want just dunk on the fake. we'll do that later Annie, organs and join us in a time of the currency right now, I'm a friendly like David fiercer hi, I'm friend, who will always right nice things about you on facebook when you get your job, always no matter. What congratulations on your big mac Alex France's here. I will. I will go, get my door and tell him to leave me alone. Our teeth is here high. I am sick of melanin jokes there's a lot of you. This week show similar has left meadow foreigners, facebook. We met a bunch, a cardiac that Debbie w c next week gadgets, but let's start with what I would it is the news of the weak shells. Who was the c o o a facebook for fourteen years and really the architect? The first version of that company, which is not in this matter, cut it surprise
everyone in just announced she was leaving yesterday and the mirrors the flurry of press- and I will say one of the funniest things that can happen in media is when they nineteen websites all published an exclusive interview. At the same, we did not. We did not put the word exclusive in our headline, but I to cheryl yesterday, but everyone outside it like just have a pr blitz of Sheryl Sandberg as we now see, you talk to her ear. Obviously, our rapporteur on the met a beat yeah. I would say that this was the most king non shocking news. If you ve been following facebook like I have or work there It wasn't a surprise necessarily that she laughed. I guess the timing was a little bit of a shock but honestly has been the biggest most special related question that I hear over and over from current and former employees. As you know, when is cheryl going to leave. That's been the question for the last few years,
So it was really a matter of when and not if and turned out, that the win was very soon, she's going to be officially stepping away but will stay on the board. This fall So why was it a non surprise? Why are people speculating so much? She recently, she's really stepped back from what she was brought there to do. Was scale the ads business and people have been. using this. I don't know where this came from, but this phrase, like quote a doll in the room which I find to be frankly ridiculous, but that was how has come position early on issues like the grown up? That's there too like scale. This start up and you she didn't successful and the ass business. But really you could almost charter to the twins, single action since that period, her influence Internally and also you know, public visibility has waned quite a bit and it's happened as soccer burg has taken.
More control over a lot of the areas that he used to give the sandberg cause back in the day He really didn't care about things like coms, legal areas now he has to care about ends. His religious exerted a lot more influence, he's, always, obviously been the most influential person, but I think people have noticed that her profile has has been reduced. I kind of wanna push back on that a little cause like he did have to care about those things right that that's why she was hired, and I think that, like that idea, the adult in the room, which is like we're kind of making all of these tech founders sound like babies, but they were also kind of being babies like most of them weren't familiar with all the big business things that they needed to be doing like having functional hr departments, legal departments, all of those expectations, and so people like her, were brought into these companies to to make them real to make them like
viable and last longer than the star of their the founders re yeah I mean Zuckerberg was twenty three I think when Sandberg joined and now you know here- the same age. She was when she originally join so a lot change, and yet he has to care about this stuff, and I mean really like he just didn't. He didn't want to actually focus on the bed, this, he wanted to focus on the user side of scaling facebook at the time and shall really became the archetype for having you know, Business minded leader come into it. Heck start up and do the stuff that there was- The honest male founder didn't want to do, which was like action building a business and like making money off this thing when it's kind of a relic of a bygone era to some extent in tackling you just never see it anymore, but there is that time. We're like you know Sergei and larry abroad. Eric Schmidt and the twitter, does borrowing
Castelo, and there is the sense of like ok, we're working to build a thing and then we're gonna bring in somebody who I was how to sort of manage a large thing to manage that large thing. That is Not how it works anymore, any gotta figure is facebook. We're starting now mark would probably be lessened for a bunch of reasons to like bring somebody up as high on the sort of podium with him, as he did with cheryl, but it was. It was a relatively non weird move fifteen years ago, and this happened right where's comparisons, really interesting, so that to happen. Finally, this year's before Learned agents are even have always hated being charged with Google famously are not actually in charge of Google anymore, even though they totally ensure that they own all of the shares of alpha all the controlling shares of alphabet, so Larry page, is like the most powerful man in tech that literally no one ever hears from. I mean it's kind of a perfect setup. That's the dream! That's all
just a cry: libya, but elsewhere. They brought him in a ceo of google and one of his room. It was like. I need to build a business in person who built the business inside of Google. During that time, was cheryl, sanborn wretched the charge into Google's advertising business. She built that whole system and then she meets more exciting, he's very focused on the user side has no. no idea how they're gonna make money and brings her, and she builds the facebook advertising machine. Sounds like a lot of what we think of his money on the internet was built or scaled by shells, hamburg, which is not how I think she thinks of her legacy. dichotomy is very difficult to reconcile. I think she said in one interview that she was put on earth to scale organizations or something like that, which is is quite a thing to say. As your call right, but I dont think like that. One way of thinking that I should like to make a small thing, really big. I was put on earth to build a purse.
wise advertising. The internet is a very different sentence to my. How the hell out of stealing your privacy like this in a kind of college radically? Do you mention all the scandals or on the election Shell samara is the one who said I don't know anyone is radicalized by facebook around the insurrection rightly She's always sort of said note. This is in us even ass. She is aggressively scale, but every business into personalization or targeting herb filter bubbles or whatever criticisms you want to have at facebook. They all kind of are down to the business model. Is that why she's got like Alex? Is that kind of like why internally they wanted to get rid of her because of that like reluctance. No, so I I'd do not buy this narrative already out there that choose push out, or I mean it's clear that you know her and mark or not as tight as they used to be, but you know she's, a lot going on with you know, her lay husband, like I don't think she ever fully recovered from
You know her husband dying years ago and she kind of checked out from facebook at a time It was going through a lot of controversy around the twenty sixteen election and after in cambridge, analytica and yeah. I just think the companies in a spot- I mean yeah, like you could tie alive. The problem so like what she oversaw, especially as it relates to coms, and she ever saw the policy. europe, you now for a long time, but she for a long time, as long as I can remember, has not actually been over the group that makes the products for advertisers right who builds the targeting you she's been over the salespeople, the people that are responsible for selling the stuff that Zuckerberg team thanks. So I think that was always attention is that she was like on the receiving end of like the downstream effective, like
product lemonade and so yeah. She she built that you could say she built the address. Is she certainly built facebook as a reputable place for advertisers and eyes of the market the engineering. The code was never really under her domain so that that's like an import distinction that I think is important for people to know the foresight, is, if thing you time she did oversea policy right. Envious just renamed itself and our wholly focused on met a verse their whole. We focus on this next generation platform like one question, I've had her facebook for one time is like internal. If they do, they think they ve hit the end. The road on what they can which was social networks and advertising, and now that is their core business that needs to be maintained hopefully grow a little bit, but the era rapid affair is over and they ve got a focus on the next thing in running There is no longer if you shall Sandberg renewed europe on
cecile organizations like you're runway to scale that is potentially oh yeah, she hasn't been into the metaphor stuff. That's for sure. And legacy that she has is like no longer the future. The company right, like you just set out like they, they ve stalled out really on user growth like their new clo heavier. Oliver is like the guy who got facebook to a place where, like they have we Almost everyone on planet earth with internet access, so they're the new This is like how do we computer tik tok? How do we retrain our algorithms to be able to predict what you want before you tell us, which was is like the key inside their tik tok has like ushered in silicon valley, that have kind of realise that in recent years? So that's what they're focused on this for media side, but you don't think she was in it for the long haul, for this discussion her snuff doing is, I m really notable here is like if the ceo of Almost any other company leaves we would not talk about it there. I'll, be a flurry of press. We wouldn't open the virtuous whether like,
you're, not a lot of sea yellows, you could name wage levels smart guy seems or cable he's next. In line to be, the ceo is in charge of the apple watch that he loves you back into flames. Lesson like remember: families are good a maid, a figure as she was choose foresee this having been in charge of facebook in some major way, in october is known about. It was like moving forward with a proper place where we will have a different, more tradition. What kind of zero If you haven't folliot for fourteen years, destroy why she holds that status, because it s an important thing to underline that for a long time, Cheryl was one of the most powerful people in the valley, because sheep was perceived as the person in charge of facebook yeah. Been trying to think about. Why thou As I mean, they certainly positioned her that weigh up until all cambridge analytical, when, like mark, really took the reins back in a kind of full way it's such a good question I mean it's tied up. I think I, like
her persona, with lean in as well, and just like she really leaned into being a public figure in a way that I think has been unusual. Fur ceos like you said today, but Why is it I mean because she she did skill at least the cell side of the as business and let them kind of honan on how they were going to come it will go all having come from Google, so shoes to call on our way, but I really just can't over state how, like the last several years I literally like last week, I was a facebook complain. saying like we're all just asking like: where? Shall we not see her anymore she's not involved in things anymore? She hasn't been she's done a few things in sheep dublin on earnings, cars and staff and will open the door in dubai and stuff like that, but she hasn't been involved in the nuts the business really like she used to be for quite a while. So and people are just waiting to see when this was going to happen, and it's almost like you know, I like how casey newton put it in his car.
We're at psyche no window you leave. Unlike is there a chance that you leave a little too late rights where your site, You should have left earlier when you were, and that's that's an interesting thing to think about in retrospect is like her influence had already really waned for awhile, and maybe she should have left when it was still at it's peak, but yeah I dunno it's, and it's going to there's going to be a lot of people writing about this. I don't know if I'll have much more to say about her legacy at this. At this point, there's just such an interesting personality, dynamic at play there, which I always found, really fascinating and I think like it very clear over the last several years. That mark was dragged into being like the public figure who goes in front of congress and has to- sort of answer for what the company is doing all that stuff. Like comic kicking in coming, and that is just not like the thing that interest him in a way that, like to point out that was cheryl sweet spot right like she's, he's good at that. It's a thing that interested her like that very funny to read the interviews and imagine that the under
I think she's running for president, because it makes absolute perfect sense if everything she says is followed by vote from twenty one for tourism line to be treasury secretary. If right now exact, and so I think, especially in the early days of facebook, it just made forth a sort of perfect dichotomy. like mark bark, had essentially unlimited power and could just be the one building the thing and reaping the benefits and going Why you to go surfing while Cheryl was the face of the thing, and that would really well for a really long time, and she, I think, was a good face for facebook longer than I think anyone would have expected to be honest, and then it really turned really hard. The last few years, and I think it just like it- it's a really interesting to look back as it was her stock was up so high and then just sort of cratered over the last couple. And part of that is self inflicted like the things she said after a generous ex than part of that is like how we ve come to view meadow and very,
over the last couple of years? Yeah me she's a lifelong democrat, and it's hard to remember now, but facebook was beloved by democrats up and told to trample action right, like obama came and spoke facebook headquarters and they really were like and lockstep with the party and a lot of ways and charles, hopefully lost a lot of political clout as a result of the tramp era and how people perceive facebook role. Now, whether it's like fair or not, and I think she feels that an she no told me what's a focus more on her philanthropy and lean and- and I think the rosy wade stuff is- is obviously very big deal for her work and I think she wants to be able to do that stuff, and I have a feeling that really americans say leaning in oh, my god into that. Work is probably hard when you're also the ceo of facebook slash matter and there's all that baggage there and so being able to just kind of cut tie.
now if she's really wanted to do that, make sense only she's getting remarried this summer and, like I think, it's just kind of a new chapter thing. I I really asked around and I'd. I don't think there was like some big disagreement here that lead to like a fire no straw. I think this is We study the org chart. Tea leaves like I do you've seen this coming for the last couple of years, she's been setting up her reports to to basically run everything without needing her. There she's not the only one right like we, we saw a peter hill left the board recently too, like there's a lot of these kind of mentors of mark are are leaving it's almost like yeah. we did it, we did what we could do here. We ve, given you as much knowledge as we can't you're on your own body. If you're on your own or maybe he's saying I got enough now to get out, I think it might be a comma yeah like lincoln. Definitely feels like the business. See, though, is, is really transformed. Its changed, its grown out of those this early stages, where we all kind of like ripped on it now are like
Well, it's a big deal now. Well so chocolate. You know, you can't say all charts to me without me. Taking the bait instantly newly mark announce a bunch of stuff, but it does seem like not a of changes like very new people and some new spots, but they're, all the same people, that everybody knew yeah all the same people more people reporting to mark. I think this is marked just you know more fully, the kind of saying like I am running thing I'm running everything like intricately so like the head of hr had of late now, reporting to him directly, which hasn't happened. I've ever released since, like the very early, stays? Yeah I mean now aside from bars the ceo, whose over reality labs, I would say that the second most powerful executive, his death. We, the new clo harvey, as is known internally, who is basically invisible externally, but is the the growth tsar and is over a lot in
in all of integrity and growth and marketing and and all the salespeople. Now too, those are the I mean besides sockets bars and harvey definitely are the two most powerful executives. Both of those names. You just said alex, I think, are super interesting because the extent to which cheryl singled out baas in the interview with you as the guy leading the metaverse charge, it's like if you're betting, the company on the metaverse and boss The guy in charge of the metaphors, like shrimp, never got talked about the previous e tito in Those kinds of terms he was just. He was more of a sort of you know or behind the scenes making stuff happen. Bosses dislike big personnel out in front of building the things. I was very surprised to see how much like shine. She was. putting on it. Maybe I'm reading too much into that. I wrote that much when I simply tell me more just in the sense of Ike yadda seconds, broadway thicket, helping out
nowadays, nerds invades computers. Antarctica is like it just like felt it virtually defend. That's very well and then harvey mark. Out saying harvey is gonna have a more traditional c. O o role fell. Like us very clear sense that, like this is not my point are in the business in the way that he used to talk about cheryl he's not on my level like there is marking, then there's a bunch of people who work for mark and dad sort of clearer than ever as the as the orchard, and it seems like he is now clearer than further that he is like everything that happens here has to roll up through me and whether that good idea or not. Adding remains to be seen, but it's interesting to see at all sort of consolidate, more and more underneath mark, like the sole guy who runs everything. I would just put back and say that has always been the case mark. As always, who has run everything it hasn't that right is we saw Cheryl even now we're seeing her still get like blamed for a lot of the issues
well that's insouciance. Then she says yeah but, like she's, been a pretty handy scapegoat and now it's like he doesn't have those any but like mark Zuckerberg literally faces a shareholder vote every year, where the shareholders of facebook or like there should be more oversight over mark Zuckerberg moran, and he has all of the controlling stock and he says no, and then they lose the air. This happens, most every now it's every year a rear, its head. Crazy. If that's true, big picture in like those in like the Larry page way. Right like tat, is true, this sort of absolute control, but in terms of lake date, day. Decisions which it seems like mark has like beaten this drawn over the last several years that, like he just one to be in the room for more staff in their ban. These stories about, like things moving slowly because only mark could decide on them when the lot of like oversight and content, moderation, questions, and it just seems like that trend can, used to go where, like the only person who can thumbs up or thumbs down, anything is gonna, be mark, and I don't know
You run. A company is biggest meadow on that ship. thing the casey several years ago, most apparent when it's time for years like I just need face it but he understood like I, don't you realize what I need to talk more people understand us I actually think sabre did a bad job of that does she was always in politics. Sales the role, and I think, she's when that role is needed. She's excellent at it but mark is one it goes, and capital helena's like senator. We saw how threaten he's got that Credibility is a guy who built it to like you down in that way and that's it. like his highlight moment on capital he's the one who made it, and I think he is is council taking that on? Actually, I will pay marks. I heard compliment at this time. Is in the rush ass. We ever forever contrast it to jack dorsey wright, who fuses to lead twitter and is like simply performing this guilt that it requires a leader in
decisions don't get made and when decisions are made, its his deputies, who take the heat in like press, If the harassment campaigns endorses, I swim above all because of the the day twitter should just be us. Whatever he said smiling, whereas mark is like now. I'm definitely controls s. Work like these are my choices, I think that this is too much healthier with attitude for so? You were gonna, be that powerful you might have yes, in fact, I make all the decisions like I dont think rockefeller. Carnegie sat around being like. Why do I control the oil industry like right now? I got it mark is like inhabits that, in a way that us this is not like, I'm company, more exact, we're, not genre, far andrew carnegie age, when they, yeah, I went to a school with a literal church called rockefeller chapel a deeply, and I don't think that, like dorsey takes that role
now. Things are actually wants it right. He wants you to one who events the next future invents. This next platform brings it into existence. I think that he, has not actually done right, like I think, I think he wants. He wants we the innovator, who let leads us into a future? I do not think the blue app is that thing I mean it innovated the way elections work you know, That was an innovation. You don't get rockefeller chapel, because he'd written exporting, that's it! That's a nice guy yeah, like I think think, is also why we need a twitter is not the big behemoth. It is like that facebook is re like facebooks. Enormous twitter is relatively small comparatively, and I think that is partially because, like dorsey, doesn't Only one company has a leader printing. Also just like a consistent vision, unlike level of execution,
His harvey than usual really represents that, like no other social media company is like demonstrated beside, maybe tik tok now in terms of the scale and they were able to achieve so yeah I mean we're. It were all very correct and sang like Zuckerberg controls everything, but I really, I don't think we should understand like harvey and baas are definitely like. The two sides of the brain by coffees, like the here and now boz, is the future remarks very focused on the future, but I think harvey as it has a lot of problem heard of him, because, like he's also over the products like the ads products that they have to build to solve all the apple staff, the regulation stuff that one he's the one who has to get nearer to the members here to fund it? yeah! He has two fundamental verse and he asked to lake make reels a big enough business long enough that that this company contain to be like a viable thing. All the way through, however, alliance. Can them to build the next thing, and I think that is like it's a weird stage of lake
I think, to decline, a sort of overstating the situation, but a kind of feels like that Ok, this is probably is big and powerful. Is this is ever going to be, and the goal is just, keep it as close to that, as you can. until we see if the next thing is real and that's that's very different from like growth, hacking, your way to you know giant social media for certain factually we'll? Let you go out one lasting ass! Well, ass, you out the future of all these products reels. Whatever? Is this content recommendation system like a senator me run by I in some way, after Sandberg leaves met as head of a is leaving inaccurate bisbee reward. Is that related a big shift is, is just shake up. Time shake of time. There's a big focus. I think it was probably the biggest focus, besides the metaphor stuff, to make a bigger priority throughout the company and specifically tik tok slavery of ay, which is not like. You tell me a bunch of things about your interests and then I ll show you stuff. I think you like
I ll? Just show you stuff, I think you like, I will learn from your passive consumption of it, which I really am rule a new way of thinking about how to do recommendations that I think took facebook by surprise with how much people liked it today the reordering the whole company, not just with his head of I've. Believing but in other ways that I'll report on soon to read, focus on. How can we recommend content to you as well as tik tok? Does and they really do see it as like existential to staying where they are just in the current tutti era of social media and does investing a lot in it. So that's like the next, like near term, chapter to wash their as relates to that thereby send it with a tease for another blockbuster outside the city dunes allotted thank you so much thanks guys
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saving time now use the code verge cast, get fifteen percent off click. Ups, massive unlimited plan for a year, meaning you can see, reclaiming your time for under five dollars a month sign of today at click up dot com and use the code verge cas and hurry, because this offer and soon We're back Andy hawkins is your hand, has gone, great hurry dies, and we doing well, we're gonna make hard shift shell, sandberg and the future of a item adverse to cars and the graphics inside. everyone just come for this ride. It's going to be great graphics, yeah. It's all the same. It's all the metaverse in the end, it's actually there's a bunch of carnies are talking about with you I want to start with this trend that I know even pay a lot of attention to which is game These are signing deals to put their game engines in cars Volvo just sign a deal to use on religion from epic in its these. What is going on here, yeah, I think it's kind of a nation.
Trend, because I think that the game companies have obviously stated at interest insarov expanded, expanding beyond the world of just games. They want to be involved in film and television, and now it looks like the automotive world is a very attractive target for them as well. The epic actually has an office in Detroit. The day is from which they interact with a a variety of of the automakers that are based there and volvo, obviously not based in detroit Basinger sweden, but they're the first. European automaker to make a deal with with epic to use unreal engine for, and I quote, photo realistic visualization in its next generation of ye be so it's busily boils down to, like you know, just better prettier, nice to look at hm. I, in these
cars way. What's h him, I ah human gene, your face, I gotta ask because I was like reading this peace and, like I love all of these things, I love reading that all of these things is any human machine interface. Just a u I Isn't this just like a fence anyway to say you, I ridges giving fancier dames two very pre established, can't be a u I ex were like, but I also don't work an apple you say how to create a new industry for you to be the leader like Alex? Do you wanna be a user? Would you want to be in the course of the amazon com, my car, the machine, a machine.
Take the machine out to destroy the machine is low on gas. Today, like you know, it's good car companies for the longest time have been so slow to improve their human machine interface. Right like that, was a whole deal of tesla as it made it. They put a tablet in there and everybody else was like we're going to do this garbage like subarus on star monstrosity, This just feels like they're still behind, like they're still like not getting the point. No, but rather using unreal engine is usually good, but they're still calling it human energy thing right is like. Why? Don't you just get the lady who made makeover as she can design you user and our allies? I understand that you have used the interfaces and you're like eighty, two, no one ever richer. Suppose there now she's turned like bright red on the course that it can. You please help me it's like put.
Lipstick on a pig a little bit right, because it's certainly the case that, like infotainment in modern cars, is a pretty hit or miss kind of concept. Right, like You mentioned tesla that one of the big things that people lugged about tesla was that it's just a much better way to interact with your infotainment system in your vehicle. Then say you know, sink for and afford, or the eye dried system in Bmw, which we now have over the years, gotten better for sure, but don't have a pretty strong foundation on which to stand so I think, you're, seeing that it? This is why obviously, systems like you, apple com, plain and renato or so popular amongst peoples, because they just like dont, want to deal with the crap that the car comes with. It is what their phones screen on there s group. I have two things I want to say about this. One is that we all just said infotainment a bunch of times and nobody said anything about itself if thats aloud. I thank you
in that machine. Enough interface is going to have to be fine. No, it is very funny. I have a greenhouse in this. It is hilarious to think this system in most gm cars or ford sink. as a human machine interface. That's the best we can do like. We should just give up like machines do both. I think that thing where you put the cosette in and then plug your ipod into the cosette, that was a perfect human machine interface. I don't need you, I'm just saying who picks the funds on these things are fairly color, so that, like all of them, are bad, we just hear whoever picks the funds for the interface of gm like we should find them. If you know they are called put him on the show, because I have a number of questions. My second thing was that andy What I want to know is why my running theory for a couple of years has been that eventually, a lot of these car manufacturers would just give up on caring about software and either just like build boxes that you can plug your phone into because that works for awhile or
There would be some third party who would like start to solve this and that but in separate, as happens, all of these companies have like centralized software development inside of their own companies. Why why this the strategy they ve taken. Why do these companies care, making software shouldn't they just give up and make cars like there's plenty of other problems to deal with in the future of god. other than asia mice. I mean it's the hired old cliche that, like you know, the modern car is now just sort of like us, a smartphone on wheels in a lot of ways that there is now this expectation that you're going to get all these more others whore your operability and it features in the vehicle deviated set of just like a clunky button that you that you press to turn on the air conditioner. You have to go through five menus now right. So it's something that I don't know that their customers necessarily want, but I do feel it. The the o yams in particular feel pressure in order to match with, what tassels doing a lot of these new tv start ups that are obviously put in a lot of emphasis on software, but I think it's
really kind of leading to a kind of a situation where you get a lot of feature blow the up. I think you're gonna have to reach a breaking point at a certain point with the latter customers, who just can't really does want button seen out its it shouldn't, be difficult to get to give the people what they want. So in that metaphor, where, like in that moment where it like the early two, thousands where every phone maker was making their own o s with their own app stores- and they all were trash and qualcomm- was here's brew. Do you want this and we just have to like muscle through that and get to somewhere where actually some good software comes out of this new we hear is slightly different place. You're at the part, were android comes out the mega literally android again so ford is like source to most of it sink development to google to build whatever think as on android google, horrible names for this. So
well. Automotive services for gas is like a thing. You can have a gas car. My gas powered electric car. I love it. Yet. Gm is running android on a bunch of stuff with Google services. Toyota is doing google services everywhere. That's android, no scientists, the company formerly known as I see it, runs off what version of android, which is a choice, and then because you have to put in the chips in their smartphone. Ships were effectively to run the stuff. They have cheap views and then, ok, we're gonna go by I unreal engine and use that is our our graphics layer to make this, so it actually like their one step further down we're giving up the stuff, are definitely not good at like the idea of volvo making its own unreal engine. I think, is hilarious fairy really very safe shit, but like they know they can do that. I think now they're, looking these like big time software the same way
look at like seat suppliers or engine component. Just like, we need these foundational transport. We will build. The sperience on top of it, given any, I think, it scares me about it- is in the end the point Is there take the steering wheel away from you they control the interface, so they can put ads on the screens. What one hundred percent that is going to be sort of the row kabir in and it was interesting cause. I I spoke with our gaming and entertainment- editor andrew Webster about this, since he has a lot of experience covering epic, and you know he he made that I thought which it was I would do a really good point, which is that, like you know, epic is really interested in in the automotive space, because cars are so much easier to render than humans in a realistic way. I'll. They are obviously doing a lot of work and film in tv. The automotive industries is, is the kind of like a little bit of a lower lived for that because they can just make this way he said there are so many racing games that come out every year there just like easy thing for them to do to render
in written, realistic way. You know a volvo car and a screen to show you how much battery charge you have left, for instance, or where, where you're going on your navigation system, just to clarify what they did. Is that like they're, not using unreal to develop user interface human machine whenever you want to call it they hired them, so they can use like the code to make a fancier version of the All the car bottle rights. We idea so like the river in it runs unreal to write a truck wishes. slowly coming out of our status. Like every time any one sees ready, and I get a swede about it. Now I saw the other day. It was amazing. So if you are driving around every day, it was really fun gray, car in the entire, both screens and a car or unreal in like all the user. Interface is running and unreal engine, but the big thing about the user interface is you do stuff, we change the modes of the car.
It's showing you the car in the state of the car, that's just now. This is like fundamentally silly in one way and on the other hand, it's like good user face design. Yeah cause like what door is open and instead of looking like the little icon, it's like it's a showing you the whole said it's a beautiful processor intensive rendering of your car like what are you can complain about processor resources in a car? It's got a battery the size of a city. It's going to be fine, it's breaking my brain that is your soul.
I can say that they're facing the exact same issue that tv makers have faced right, like tv makers, the exact same position of we don't know software. What do we do and tv makers eventually like? Oh, we outsource it to people that know software, and these guys are like yeah we're going to do that, but we're not going to outsource it to the people who know how to make user interfaces, with the exceptions like gas they're saying we're going to outsource it to the guys who know how to make really cool looking cars in video games to make really cool looking cars on the screen that, presumably, how do you change the air? How do you do the air conditioning? How do you like, I feel like they're there The card ahead of the horse here, a lot I feel like they like. Ok, we know we gotta have flash and, like they just misunderstanding, the actual view just compare unreal agenda, flash buttons we need the sea of epic is going to find out that the next time your door bell rings. It's going to be tim sweeping I guarantee you. There is like a moment in that weird time and flash was ascendant when, like some,
our companies like and we're gonna the car is probably subaru, excess car, that's the problem, so any this is a trend even covering it. We ve got a piece like a big piece coming here. We have the freelancer who's working on a story about sort of the convergence of the gaming industry and automotive and sort of what it's going to mean for the future of you know you I for the future of autonomous vehicle technology. gee. It seems like there's gonna, be a lot of opportunities for more companies to come, and not just epic, but possibly some of the other major competitors that out there, because there's just such a mad rush into the heavy and av space and If you get an eu after ex there there's the expectation that there's gonna be, you know a lot of a gorgeous, fix on the inside and a lot of high tech features. So it just seems like this is a space. It's gonna be worthwhile
and so we're going to definitely be looking into that a little bit deeper and everytime something soups on the screen. Alex will be there to be like what a waste of processor resources. I was just going to say, there's a bunch of like screen shots and would look like you know: core futuristic renderings in the industry wrote Andy and it just looks like Google maps, it's like we got unreal engine to make us slightly prettier Google maps, but for him the average car company that is such a leap, ferris, I'm so proud of them right they didn't fall down mean. This is why, if you look at any rate, we call on the road today in any any city anywhere it, it's got its most likely has a phone mount somewhere, because people we have just rather look at their phones, because that you know the state of of what is offered on the screen of their cars is not is not acceptable for most people. They d rather just deal with their votes, and I think that the thing. I call out, in every car view that I wash and priorities for this for me since so many times I ever Doug chimera, like our friend one,
his courtiers and youtube. He was just wave at the center screen. After doing like fire, the minutes of every intricate feature of the car and he's like, and it s car play mandarin other than that whatever software design that they did he's like, and it is confident entrance that's a disaster for car companies They are doing all this work and none of it rises above and you can merrier from spain to its easy. Why they're doing the effort? I think one of them as I have is, when you get to talk of actual autonomy, they got to take the maps back from Google. and build a you. I, like you, tell the car where you're going and you you, the cars navigation. I, like, I don't think so, reckoned with that. Yet, except for In many cases there is like yeah we're, so I could do. but there is no other alternative happened, I've it that is It sets the screens and horse. Let's quickly, that's some real car news, we shot out spent
save cars are among in the middle. chip for Joseph lately. Europe. Or primes going for a hundred thousand dollars great greatly so everyone. Meantime, and each year has slashing prices on the bolt, which seems crazy to me, like you, It's really weird did. The shabby bolt is now suddenly that the cheapest electric vehicle on the market early, so it will be in a later this year, once the twenty twenty three model start threat in the road. They reduce the price of round an average of seventeen percent for both the m, the bull ii, which is that the hatchback back in the EU v, which is the slightly larger crossover or hatchback thingy. It's not really an s, u v, but it it wants to be. I think it starts at about twenty six thousand five hundred ninety five dollars for the for the bold tv and twenty thousand one hundred and ninety five dollars for the e v, or that includes destination fees. So yeah, that's that's a pretty remarkable price that undercuts the the latest version of the nissan
which was the cheapest, he be on the market and certainly undercuts the tesla model. Three even though it had the aspiration of being a third Five thousand dollar eby, never never really hit that and has basically hovered around the mid forties for most of it most of its time. So, yes, ITALY, a pretty a pretty good deal out there. If you sort of get over the m, the massive recall it they had due to all the battery fires so one heard all the other little I would say, is one of the most striking the ugly cars and everything it does. Now. It's not easy on the eyes for sure I had a bull uv a couple weeks ago for about a week yeah. While it was it's kind of clunky to look at and it's just not not, that great design, wise and there's a lot of hard plastic all around. It gets the job. It was. You know it's. Presently, roomy on the inside. It's got a lotta really great pick me up and-
I found myself having more fun driving it than I originally anticipated. I thought it wasn't going to like. I didn't like driving the original evie bull tv, but the EU viet. I found to be hitting a lot of sweet spot, and I m actually in the middle of ready in a review of it right now get reading this story. I found myself vastly between like is this? Is this true, coming from a position of strength. Like you know, we had economies of scale. This thing is, is kind of you. can we can. We can lower prices because we're in good position to do this or is there gee. I'm saying, oh, my god we made so many of these and to people have bought on. Please take our cars and, by the end of it and its resources are the picture. I just sort of assumed the answer was the second thing that I think it too mixture of both, I think, they're also there, I into a sort of come out with a statement that this is an affordable ii, which is the market, has a very much lacked for a law time, especially with a lot of the new ones that have been coming out recently there more in the premium space air. Think gm saying you know there needs to be
Ass market dv was supposed to be the test, the model three, it didn't quite get there, but obviously tesla has and selling them monitoring them on. Why are the biggest sally tvs in the country? I think g and strained say we're still very much committed to the idea of a mass market avian, and this is one of the ways. Are we going to do that, I'm in it also not a coincidence that you know that for just started, delivering in the f one, fifty lightning customers to recital g and trying to still lived under the spotlight by coming out with this. I'm sorry, if just if you're listening to you haven't seen the chevy bolt just looking at the picture and then imagine trying to steal the spotlight from the f one. Fifty lightning with this thing, like it's good luck, I just think that the lightning is super marked up right, like ten twenty thirty thousand dollars on lightnings right now. If you can find dealers that have them than most dealers, don't because they're all allocated eighty six dance,
if evert really wants to buy one and keep sending him listings where the msrp is listed, he's like no, no, the dealers actually mark them up once you inquire, down the line. Cars are marked up of remo. Pee everywhere. it just seems like so few people want in the batter farce and help but it just seems remarkable that they're dropping the price Do you think it's gonna work? Well, I think you also have to look sort of at the broader picture was that which is that gm is not eligible for the federal tax credit any more either so I'll be made have been able to lean on the tax credit, which is seventy five hundred dollars per vehicle tissue. off a little bit of that price and help make it more attractive, a vehicle for people who may not. You know necessarily want this car exactly what they want, something that is electric in their tired of pain, high grech gas prices. There is ready to make that switch They they haven't been able to do that. So I think they had to make some sort of dramatic change to the price,
structure in order to sweeten the pot provokes any now they're coming out with the silverado tvs coming out next year, so they will have a truck to compete, with if one fifty lightning, but in the meantime you know the woodwork gm actual it has on the market. Today, is this in the hummer e v, which is like just like. I think it's like one hundred and twenty thousand dollars another little piece of real for news for just keep, making investment announcements senator build even in michigan. Yet great michigan. Beside forward of all companies would establish a manufacturer footprint in Michigan. no, they announced three point: seven billion dollars in manufacturing, expansion in michigan, ohio in Missouri, and and be creating six thousand to hunt new unionized jobs as part of this and
a sort of hinted at plans for an updated, mustang and ranger gas powered and then also they teased a an electric commercial vehicle which they didn't offer any specific scientists that there's gonna be a new electric commercial vehicle to come out to compliment the transit ban that they are in production with right now, at this point it seems like for it is the way ahead of their like I seen a lot of forward. Capacity are obviously assuming people are going to buy new mustangs and commercially. These were that with delivery of monkeys and lightning it's great, that are building more factories that will deliver carson five years now. Are they catching up? where they need to be to compete or even get people their cars Is slowly but surely so they they actually just recorded their there may delivery numbers at the same time as they made this announcement and their ebby sales are up two hundred and twenty percent compared to may twenty twenty one, which should be shocking because
that will levy the hat from the markets. May twenty one was the the ford mustang mach e, and that was it that had just came out, so they were just ramping up production on that at that time. So We are getting better. They ve they sedative delivered around two hundred of the forerunner of the f. When fifty lightnings too, dealers it with many more in transit they said he did have the number that the really excited about is that seventy five percent of the people who have reserved in F one fifty lighting, are new to forward completely so they're winning new customers, which, for a company like ford, is a big deal because obviously they paid they play. Second, walter g m and to you know a lot of the the neo german and japanese automakers so that that's a big deal for them, as is the converting of new customers to them. What are their old customers like converting to these, like all that truck drivers who are doing it for their cars
in businesses and stuff yeah, that's going to be up. That's going to be a big, a big thing to watch watch for them as well as cause that's they're, they're, confident that it'll be able to flip those those folk because truck drivers are are very loyal to their brands. You know so be the one who owns enough when fifty will buy a new one in every five years or so, for example, goes for, you know, ran fifty hundreds and shabby silverado. I just be barges very loyal to those brands and those trucks. So I think if we can make a convincing argument to flip those loyal customers, while also making a big deal about the fact that its winnie new customers you know that they will have a pretty, I think, winning marketing message there that, at the very least, let me I would say that that ford versus chevy sir andred mac verses windows for nurses, chevy might be out even hotter war. Then I must ve entered where's stock in all this, well, they don't make it anymore. It's ram yeah, it's not ram. You know like what years ago or so fifteen years ago, and now
your dodges, they're, coming out with a bunch of muscle cars, electric muscle cars in the next few years. They are coming and dry some way here, either if you're getting everybody heard it? Now they announced ram announced a battery sitting under truck straight up, drawing way they announced to draw and they're, going on a series of busier question about like existing owners, they're gonna convene panels a ram owners around the country to find what they really want. Let your truck the one that exists. I do you not know is it? Is it unclear The truck is going to be humongous and gas powered that's going to be what I wear. What I want is a diesel engine. You want it to last a long time. Barely fast is very, very simple, but the nasa drag and then there there he muscle cars straight up drawings. They put out like a concept and they forgot to
like a race, the underline sketch the dead, they had replied the graphic on top of so people can just sort of isolate out that the sketch that was underneath it'd be like oh yeah. It's going to it's going to look like a wrap like a like a like a truck yeah sobre, guess what a bunch of pre existing truck owners, one out of a truck fertility I a truck look at the end of the equation and look what happens when you get something that you don't want. It looks like a truck and you get the cyber truck right. That's that's! That's the opposite! End of of all of this yeah, a triangle which they cannot figure out where to mount the windshield wiper. I'm like the vigour problem. In the ie industry is out of control, which leads me to the vaporware section of the this car, and then we gotta represent so you agree. Branded itself is an easy. Only automaker, buick, Gabriel boucher solaris, their promising by twenty twenty four, which is
However, I mean it looks cool though they didn't change the logo. I think the new logos very nice. I agree the three flags love it, it's good, it's very good, it's good and then they released this concept. Car called the wild cat which I don't have you ve noticed most here's to sell sudan's anymore so selling like a nineteen, for he's buick. Even sudan is a very bold move. I would, by this in a heartbeat, it's kind of hot. Look! You it's hot. I was like a shark, it's pretty sweet and you can definitely murder roger rabbit wood when cadillac did that big redesign, you remember a couple of years ago, a couple was like twenty years ago they redesigned and tried to make them more like sports cars. This is the same energy where we're like we're. Big luck, brand. What have we did sports cars? So this is neither the vaporware are the weak segments of viewing he's doing that this is: korea and then delorean, I mean italian announcing drawing
fully announced drawing called the alpha five mg, and I dont think thought through these doors and also that it has a classic dorian, go indoors being either tesla falcon where's kind like full year, so that their useful these are just like there's a ninety degree angle may open three parking spot. at all times. It is this the hell out of whatever spark next to it in the park and if its citizens like, I do think this through this car. So weird me, I just had the weirdest experienced just reading this story about this car, like that. There's image the top of the story which is from the back, the wings are open and assist like that's heart, that's a delorean and then two paragraphs down and they show the front of the car, and it looks to me like one of those things I like we're old in boy scouts, four legs start corridor re or whatever the final derby. That's. How does it look this looks like the sort of shaved it down for that. That was your car and then I look at it from the boy
in its got cool lights across the back, and it looks like a tron thing and unlike ok, I'm kind of into this and then it actually designed the back of the car and not from the car you a hundred percent, they make it an unreal engine in, insofar as that is unreal, so there promising on showing this off on august when he first pebble beach, We will see twenty thirty, what it will present be a static concept car it let much like the at the first faraday future current la that came out anticipate it being something that can move on its own accord. Yet in an air promising that this will come out in the next few years I'm gonna go out and all say this card out between You workin Delorean two names come up on the verge test all the time. I want to say that we will not see shipping buick until the second half of the decade so way beyond in the door and whenever doesn't doesn't I've ever
What does it ends up being just like a body kit for other curse its start putting this on like a chevy by you, gotta put the doors on it, the doors Look so insanely unworkable, like they're right up there with them. cyber truck and the essential wiper situation like you can't shoot cyrus arguments as when should wipers, and they have not yet figured it out. There is evidence that there is a solution to the cyber shock which will affect up. But you aren't. We, like our resolution, is one giant wife. Her that's not keep in mind. This is not the real delorean motor company that mean that company went bankrupt, I, like forty cars, the car sucked because people care about time machines, not the laureate anyway continue in the founder, was caught in a sting operation. You know trafficking, drugs and cocaine, the of witches yeah, that's cool
a very eighties and very much levine with delorean dinner party have stood for, but this is a company. That's not just owns the branding rights, so it's not even a car company. It's a cup it sort of like a holding company that owns branding right! So can I just read you this? Is you can sign you can sign up to preserve a door enough? can. I just read you this copy from the website Delorean is eager, as you are, to enable a path to ownership of the iconic alpha bridges the physical universe with the met a verse will be our path forward. We will advise all newsletter registrants, rivers and lakes, when twenty twenty two on how to join the journey to ownership? Is this going to be an n f t? What are they said? He was signing up for our newsletter. It's the metaphors. I think, because that's what I'm getting is good. This thing is going to
when fortnight and you're gonna go to drive so fast. In fortnight, oars can open. However, you want in fortnight that's the beauty of it. It's yours, we weaved revealed by courts such If the door and people are mad at me, you can prove that I'm right by sending me a door in the car. It's very simple, andy. Thank you so much we gotta take a break. We back to wrap up demi tbilisi. You listen to the show weekend and weak out because well we'd like to thank. We offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stores intact business and politics. We also understand that time is valuable and we want to apply the lessons that you hear on this podcast. So what if you could get bite size snippets of the best content we have to offer, every week, while you're in luck. What a because pivot and salesforce are teaming up to give you just
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was doubly dvd, see the worldwide developers conference. I would say it's like the apple kick off of the you know, and then you kind of get the two all events. Usually so furnaces David are gonna, be there we are going to California. Were you I'd, go to apples and we're not gonna wander around carefully we're gonna get huzza apple, we're gonna be a dummy in person which is very exciting, I'm on we're if we're going to see do it on stage in person. For others can be like issued, dvd, if you care to watch quiet with vs, I can answer this one for you. It is a viewing party. Is it the thing that has battle: they wanted to bring some people back like obviously it's it's. Tbilisi is as much like a chance for developers to like him with each other, and talk about a cool apple is as it is anything else, and so they wanted some of that via back, and they're, bringing some developers, and some staff in I dont- know the exact numbers and breakdown, but as
I can tell what it amounts to is we're all gonna sit in a theater and watch a pre produced event on a screen together, and I have a lot of questions about how that's gonna go down and whether people will clap and whether there will be a musical guess at the end, but that is just it seems like they did wanted to bring people back, but not at the risk of like putting the executives room full of us unwashed masses in which they make so we can believe so we can be together, but not with Craig federighi yeah, alright. Well, that would be fascinating and refunded, see everybody. I miss going to these events very much. different. Vibe will obviously be live blogging I would say, there's a lot of noise in the air about whether apple show some are the our stuff, and my sense of that is no like maybe they'll, be some developer focused like here a few. Can because that's what the show is for you now, I feel and we're not gonna get the hardware, but I also remember so many times on this very podcast. You saying,
when they finally show it off. It's gonna be in that at an inn person event. that about a stick to that. I just going into this in person. Soon I showed off it. They're gonna make david go and the like hermetically sealed capsule for two weeks so that it may- and I go to my castle, but you are body yeah. That's that's basically right right like I think the house, if you like a big in person like walk through thing here, but I just we ve heard a lot of noise about it with this one in particular, and I would just say that the rumbles and air are very much like not yet happened they'll be some like framework star, because It's the reason that there are so many rumors is there's like snippets of code in the betas and stuff. That's already starting to come out. yeah. I think what we're gonna see now is apples been doing, back and watched a bunch of apple keynote seriously, because it's what I in my spare time in particular, looking for the eight hour south and it's like apples but talking,
are for a long time at all, it's over shown is basically like different variations of the same demo, which is like you hold up your device look into it camera and something appears on the other end like that's. The only thing apple has ever taught us about how they are supposed to work, and my guess is They had set his coming soon, which I think it it there's enough smoke there that, like it is it's not five years away. I don't think, and the thing apple cannon- needs to do, and I suspect is going to start to do is like start to give. It's about how all that stuff is gonna. Work like that Will you I things and new things? You can do it the camera and like to me like live text which abbot, which up announced attribute of easy last year, which is like you can hold camera and scan texts that are actually pull that text into your phone. You can do suffer that that's that's ay are like that is an in our future right and I think start to see many more of those to the extent that it's gonna be like then, when they revealed a headset it'll, be the sort of backing into a thing that jobs did at the iphone words like these things that already exist we're pulling the baltic
and showing you a new way to use them, and I think we're gonna start to see like those first pieces that dubbed up that's my big theory, fear I'd, be shocked. If we see whether a bunch of highlights as they're, going through like ios and and watch us and everything a bunch of highlights of. Like oh look at this thing. That could also be useful for a are exactly probably without the pointed look at the camera straight innovating. I put a few minutes but, like I think, you're also going to see like developers of a our apps being like here's, some new features. That would be great if they were on all the time, yeah totally right, because right now, because you're right, like the number of our demos, where it's like If people are walking around the circle, looking at ipads yeah, it's like the viewers, it's always been one of the least compelling things apple has done it
It's a it's a race between that and like someone playing an ipad game, it's hard to watch it when you're, when you're in the room too, because an on the stream, though like cut to like the person's view- and you can be like. Oh- that kinda looks cool in the room you're, just like watching a guy up on stage, looking at his ipad yeah. Well, I bet there's just freezes. Do look at the problem, really you can attach them. no and you're. Looking at fake legos, I'm looking at night- and I think just that one last thing on this before we move on to the other thing- that's happening in at this moment- is like google and up and metal, and all these companies are like really starting to push hard on. Their ideas about what a Our faces are supposed to look like like it's not an accident. The google showed that wacky google translate demo like they are trying to get and say here is how we think this works and apple is used pretty happy to be like the fast follower here to not be the one to lake make big giant bats, but I think if you're ever gonna,
take a big swing and, like we've, been talking about on their show like launch your revolutionary new input device. This feels like a time to start at least giving people hints about what that's going to look like I dunno, that seems out of character for apple right, like they are going to show it when it's done, they're going to when it was served conception, interface is complete, at the comparison you're making. I think it's the apple watch, where the first version the interface was wrong. Yes, in that they did a total reboot with a third gen, but it was still complete right, like they had a thing to say about the digital crown revolutionizing computing, whether or not that happened I mean I don't think they're going to sizzle reel because they don't really do those, but at the same time we did get the homepod where everybody was like sat in the audience. Now. You can listen to what a homepage could sound like a giant audience with very expensive speakers and we're like cool like a kind of worry but also kind of one. That too
and now my prediction for this is they're gonna. This dummy, too easy there a bunch of new air features for the four iowa essentially have had to ask, is the pros have a wider sensor. Those very clearly, if you read the tea, leaves because acted too how developers can make apps where it had set, but they will say nothing we'll be it when they announced that they will have stand alone event with. Probably way tighter in person protocols, because they're gonna want to demo the thing up on it. and they say a lot of things about how and it already works, sprightly gets than the here's the app ecosystem is ready to go, think we're. Gonna get some like. Hence nothing more, sort of becoming a form of look at these new capabilities for the phone defence. were actually expecting this new machnik air macro here and we still waiting on the mac
Maybe a mac pro yeah we're still waiting on the mac pro with the m one, presumably the m one, ultra or whatever, and then the macbook air with the m two. Those are kind of like the two outstanding would that be weird. It's like the most powerful one, but already we're like jumping a generation with the air. I feel like I don't know how a match, those two things in my head or they can skip in one entirely further for the back programme so I said very pointedly there. Going to transition the macro apple. Silicon say I m one of em too So maybe the m to starts with, like the low end in an act of care, and there are also thy and it would be so- we're funny if they were like, we may be a montalto, the mac, studios, amazing and then what amounts to like Ten minutes later that I just kidding, we already have the next generation, ultra macro. Let's go I don't I don't
wait, there's more noise about the m two macbook air out in the world coming at Wwdc yeah, but then the mac pro is stuck back in that place of like limbo, where we're just wondering what the hell is going on with the mac. which is a very familiar placed for the macro to be for an hour studios like feeling the voice like people mad about the maxine so maybe they're waiting, it does seem likely we'll be somewhere for us. Look at what I said: the empty mac. there the macro waiting up for grabs, my gases, it's the empty air and in the mac pro later much later, has like the ultra version. right as the m one ultra is like. That's that's why that can go. They can't paypal anymore, those ships together. As far as I understand- and I ve said that, like the one alter- that's that's it there's no bigger chips. Yeah. So I would just guess at the macro, maybe as an anti situation, epical seems to me You get a new air worth coffee. If there's a new ethical thing will be that we form factor redo back as they did.
Change, the form after all, with the m one and odyssey, One factor was designed for intel ships. So if you dont need I could give you open. I m one mac which air in an insult computer like oh They needed a lot of like thermal, the until one, that's just not empty space, excited so they can make its smaller if they anymore, not like there's a lot you could do with a macbook air if you're not dealing with fans and until chips, and although I wonder about that keyboard cause that that's one of the reasons that they have to stay so thick right, it's like to have the keyboard have actual travel to escape the horror, appleton event, a new kind of keyboard that needs less travel. That's an idea that I had caught a butterfly keyboard. Just a teeny, tiny little barely even moves at all. Everybody will love it. It'll go really well, just don't have any food with crumbs near it don't eat there. We'll see. I I think the idea of like redesigning
I probably have the macbook air, it's like a it's like one of them orange. The thing is iconic yeah. They litter could not stop selling it. They tried to stop selling and people kept buying it when they did those original thirteen inch macbook pros I'm curious to. If, if it is the air, I'm here says you have, a redesigning has a very important products must refuse to to see like the of years. A pretty good yeah put. I am too in it and a redesigned like you've read it, he gonna make the battery last longer, that'd be great, but like it's go more facet or is already a day when I went to her office issuing travel the entire day work there, your day in the office on my end, one pro macbook pro and I didn't even bring the charger with me. I do not bring my charter to the office went to bring my in one area and it just goes. You sometimes forget to charge out overnight and it still have plenty of battery this next day. Sometimes it won't. That's me, don't zoom all of your meetings, You didn't see, that's about the events we are setting out on the operating system. So there's this rumour,
I've had to ask me a better multitasking, which means they have to completely revamped multitasking souci. however, that there is only the one move left right like I was. I was reading surly and it's like you can already, The thing where you can you have to cyber society can sort a dragon around, but it's like, conky and messy, and it's like the obvious answer is just something like free window. Multitasking, like you, have a mac that just is the end, and I don't know where else there is to get like. If you have to have a thing where you like, you know you can drive one in from the top and the side and the bottom now. So you can have six apps layered on top of like that sucks. I don't want that. give me regular, multitasking yeah, but if they resize it, oh well, I guess you stupid lead you back to them. Why does mac o s exist, but the m ones are so good that you're, like okay, I get why still, I think apple is like increasingly comfortable with that answer, not being obvious yeah that like, why does it is the macbook air exists is like if you wanna backward air biometric air. If you want an I've had by an ipad, did you a lot of
same things in some slightly different things and I think apple is like really hard to differentiate the two for like a decade finally leading into the idea that these are variations on a theme, and that's basically ok, I just When we ask that question and briefings it's like talking to relax the EU. They hear the key word in their little man. People who buy macintoshes also by I've had they do different thing and it's like a further answer there, like we sell everything. They told me for years in those briefings that people didn't want a track pad and cursor on the pad, so they were just never do it like for years, and I was like you are wrong and you are lying to me? Let actually do it and I called several people at apple after that happened. It was like I told you like. I got you and I think it's that kind of thing like that they did that and the mac didn't instantly die. I think I just want to ruin to envision david in this theatre during the cinema.
Experience where standing up and yelling I gotcha through a magic keyboard at everybody, is a mess, so I think we're expecting to see some widget stuff on ilo s. Notifications of that this is a suffered tinker with every year they still haven't quite forgotten obligations, silently forgot, widgets southern white figure out multitasking. every year, it's new and different, and honestly, I think that's fine, just bring growl back. It will say on there there's one piece of that that I think is actually bigger than you just described if the rumors are real what's coming is more interactive, widgets in which you can actually like do stuff, rather than which is just being there play big app icons that show you outdated commission because they were fresh very often having a thing that like even on the lock screen, you can actually do something without unlocking your phone or opening an up that kind of stuff. I think it's a potentially being pretty meaningful
The question is whether anybody will actually use it or adopt it like I had somebody the other day mentioned how cool app clips are to me and was like? Oh my god, app clips. I forgot about app clips and it's the same sort of thing where it's a good idea about sort of later way to use your device, but no, uses them, and so we all pretty much use smartphones. The way that we always have so rigorous if any of that actually takes, but I think this idea of like how do we make interactions later is a really interesting one. It would be very weird for them. This long after the widgets were introduced on android to finally be like widgets. We figured it out I don't know whatever they may live from andred. Is it will at this point and religious rights? It will at this point and like you, we are if the people like us and the people listening to this are the only people compared to platforms like that. I just did. The rigid situation has existed for so long and apple's been like kind of dicking around with it. For for dec,
it's now right like it was on regional, kill, dashboard, a makeover, as that was the saddest day in computing history. It was horrible and like they did, there were the widgets and other like nope, guess what we're going to do now? Widget, since I called did it in you, didn't love it enough. but this time apple I used to have the greatest. All time is called Kronos lighter, and it would you just told it like forty atta slider any good slide. can fourth entice. Then it would what time it was an old times, and so we were happy boy. one london we have people in amsterdam and we had people in japan. And I wouldn't you screw with them all the time does I knew time it was because I had a dash word which it and now all bets are off. who knows the time, but it's just messaging everybody twenty four hours a day, all dashboards fault. Alright, so that's I whereas I hear you say like it's trying to create a new interaction models, or maybe more lightweight, but they're gonna tinker with things. I was thinking with no rumours, really about watch it s, not a lot of just will focus on health, more
The other rumours is health, exclamation boy like that. No rumours receive EU us even other process? Will she be swimming like it's weird. I got a total lack of information on all other other verses. Here's a rumour about tv! Less there's going to be a long commercial, the prominent involves ted, Lhasa, there are about tat. I think that the operating systems in a pretty solid place right. now the operating system is still in its like completely split personality zone, right where they actually, oh, here's. The here's, a conspiracy theories and you they have never been able to make the tv app the home screen, which is what wanna too, since a thing began right, they weren't able because it couldn't get everybody to participate in a recommendation system ranks I would like that flax which is now back, feel a little bit and needs needs to show its value to subscribers. Maybe
Maybe this is the moment that eddy cue is waiting for dudes going to wake up and be like. I got you and get nothing the recommendation system? And finally, in a flip, the interface, the tv I mean that's what they want to do they wanted it wide enough. Netflix national participate in a recommendation system, but This is the moment, travel to strike and say what do you want to Turning subscribers like stars, like
The reason netflix doesn't want to be in the recommendation, systems of roku or whatever apple tv are doing, is once you're in the netflix that they want to keep you there right in their problem. Is people like, but I would like to leave the netflix app and watch whatever is on atrium x or apple tv plus. We didn't notice that like right now, if you're in the apple tv app, you can go and search like netflix, specific shows and it'll actually show you those shows, but it's really buggy and weird, like we were kind of poking around at it to figure out because- and I were like, is this like a working as it's supposed to? Is this like some secret test for for netflix coming to it, and it seems like it's mainly just working like it's supposed to which is buggy as hell and broken. So when you go it look up, I don't know stranger things it I'll. Let you follow stranger things and will let you open the netflix app and that's it, but it will let you track. The show like you do. The other shows the tv up the avenue systems or words like broken.
becoming it could be, what net please has traditionally been willing to be part of the like universal search systems like it. If you go broke, who, in some strange things it'll show up in the universal search, they were weird about apple, for reasons I dont, to understand the netflix has at least been willing to be part of that in other places. I assume it's beetle they come around there too. Would it hasn't wanted to do as I give up any part of the interface reds like here are. The shows you're watching netflix does not want to be next to other services, and now I think I think you might be right. That This is probably the weakest negotiating position. Netflix has been in in a long time and that may tip some of this stuff in apple's keen for it to like every time. I've spoken with people at apple about it they're like yeah, talked enough likes the like that you shouldn't say what she could say is, or people acquitting servicing care. If netflix recommendations are on the screen, anymore yeah, but it's still baby. What unites the thing you would actually say is, if you let us recommend,
service. We will show people shows netflix, even in that subscribers and hopefully derive use and sobs which have to do with all the other popular yeah little little care little stick. This is adequate time shy. Man finally like is in in his element. Yeah he's he's kicking it he's calling read from the sidelines of the finals games. This is going to be amazing. I shouldn't say I I we were wrong about what show, as there is one inkling that might be something bigger going on about lake margaret Bloomberg? Who is pretty much always right about these things said something about it's like. Acting dated eight operating and navigation so like there might actually be some new you? I should Maybe this is the first a r device. Maybe they have like salt holograms on watch ios and that's going to be that's going to be a r, but I think I love the optimism. Maybe this'll be the the death of that stupid, app flower thing once and for all
and would make my life much better. I use the why I killed it immediately. I did. The list was I don't need the list shows you all of your apps so like I don't want to be. Far as like, you got the clock in the center and there's only three icons. I click it shows me all of them so walkie talkie, it's my two factor at than we might just be too In view of the wish you scroll with it, the flower you dislike beat back to book that's that's the chain so ato S as it now makes those noises anytime. They do everything it celebrities, sandy middle of cells and tissues, every hurting, nero makko ass, the rumour, it's gonna be called mammoth and there are apparently some new, app designs coming. One of the things that keeps coming up is a reading two system preferences which, if that is the dead is the main rumour tells you everything you need to know about ethical. It's coming for mac system. This is. What will be? There will be
watching the video along with you, but together, which we nice live log, the whole thing will tons of coverage on site that's happening on Monday. We have gone way over justly while the other I just want to mention one thing: google Maybe the biggest easily crucial at all show that Google combining me indo into a single act for voice calls as a new messaging stretch out, I was looking at david story like checking it to make sure he didn't put we're type and there, and that was me learning that they weren't already combined. Where are the people who tweeted at me and said something along the lines of deer is already having an impact was yeah. It was amazing. Unfortunately, we are already way over. So I should not give the full explanation for how this works, because it takes several hours, but the various What version of the story as I understand it, is that Google had these two one do I was like faced time. What's up a kind of messaging up meat was it zoom competitor meet got
it'll, be all of google's resources over the last couple of years, because became super important for from home and all that stuff. So it became this very rich platform, but do a worse really. Well, both for, like you can act, call someone ended alike ring their device, which is a thing meet, can't do, and also really well in places with bad network connectivity, which is very important for calls, and video, especially globally, so who was actually bundling at all into meat, the ideas that it should have all the features of both apps, because google loves future boat more than any other company on planet earth, and it's the most lab is actually to be based on duo, and the part that's so insane to me is if you currently use duo at some time our future, your dual app will be renamed meat and that will be to meet up. But if you also meet on your phone mean OECD remain away over meet original away. Just getting is sunday, there will be any dynamic over me is the point that sort watches dot anytime soon.
in related news, newsgroup shut on our seas and indeed because of enormous debt, spam problem, the dmz coming, which amazing thirty great over there, so you want to send a message to seller and the google platform. God bless you it's going to be fine. that's it plays a w c. Is next week lots Can we get time since? shout out here in a brilliant feature on. A change in burning from our features at a time when a once in a lifetime, word and the only reason I want to say it is because I think that's one of the funniest headlines. We have ever published it's very good. Just a one no I've timbered on aversion I am very sorry well done. Dakota this week was the president of the blockchain association of ukraine. is a fascinating. My crypto journey continues grass questions. If you face the government with a bow when you have the thousand people say things like yeah, but we should try it just it's very entertaining incredulous. Next, we have apple Zoe.
Firstly, on talk about the union's nation, ever apple stores. How is working and how much each company that's coming, I did that on monday and tuesday, cars on tuesday will be flooded with Toby seniors after that, that's it even tweet at us, thanks to Andy for coming on he's at any j hawk thanks also to heathrow marianne he's out heath and out each clans David is at pierce. I met reckless, we did it we won't shockingly over that a recast rival Thanks for listening to this week, show and hey we'd love to hear from you should an email at birth cast dot com, and if you liked the show share with a friend bert gases of production, the verge and part of the box media pot, ass network. Today's episode was produced by me, William James and our senior audio director andrew marino. Our executive producer is eleanor Donovan, that's it will see next week.
Transcript generated on 2022-06-06.