Friends and welcome to the way I heard this episode number two hundred and thirty at its core it's not the itching. It's the chafing yesterday, as one of my very favorite tv producers of all time and one of my favorite humans, her name is Sarah. Your growl and she is, possibly the most positive upbeat, optimistic glass, half full kind of girl to ever work in television, Sarah is so sweet that she makes my teeth hurt. Sometimes but I love her anyway, because Herbert Atlas onward every brand of optimist, is not an act? Sir or growled, truly loves her fellow man and is dedicated to making our world a better place by working on tv, shows that highlight the best of our species. We spent a few years together. Sarah me working together on one such show,

Emmy Award winning program called returning. The favor. for those of you who don't know returned, favour was Facebook, show that celebrated people who did nice things to make their communities a better place. We celebre, Did these people by while by law to them by making think we were making a documentary getting to know. them and then surprising them with an elaborate gift. At the end of each episode, there was a feel good show like dirty job Artie was programmed by the viewers we had a large super engaged. audience and I figured I'd be hosting for the next five or ten years, because, honestly, never worked on a show that was more apropos to a divided country, then returned the favour we want on the air shortly after the election in twenty sixteen which, as you might recall, was somewhat contentious, and I think we did

really good job of proving that people on both sides of the Isle we're still capable of kindness and decency, but there to the surprise of Sarah and me, and everybody else involved, including fifty two million loyal fans. Facebook cancelled returning the favour after honoured episodes cell. full disclosure. The conversation you're about to here might sound a little indulgent Worse, it might even sound in parts like were pissed off about facebooks decision to counselor show at the height of its popularity for the record. We're not we're, not angry we're still little confused, but here's the thing nodded goes by that? Somebody doesn't ask me why returning the favourite was cancelled and whether or not its ever coming back and the short? answers are, I don't know- and I don't know but Do you think the fans of the show might like to listen in on a candid

conversation between Sarah and me since truth be told was in many ways more connected to returning the favour than I was because real Who, among us today couldn't use a blast of unbridled sunshine, called sorry, your ground? with that said this is episode number two hundred and thirty, it's not the itching. It's the chafing, this holiday season, a lot of people are going to be doing something they haven't done in quite a while they're going to be so. ending time with family and that's great families are great but hanging with family, especially on the holidays, can also be or what's the word, exhausting after long days filled with family, friends and fun. You might want to consider winding down a bit with calm com

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I can't believe we're gonna start another one of these things by bitching about my producer and the audio Sarah, but we're going to kill you Anything less than me, I'm consistent in my performance. These are just mere props. Very well are you. It looks like you're in a bunker yeah, I'm in a pretty unfortunate environment them amish. So I just returned from six weeks travelling work too. weeks. Prior I moved into finally did it. I moved to California something I've been wanting to do for years after ten years, New York and so on in this beautiful home that I loved all the hardwood floors, but from a listening perspective, just awful YA understand the places full of Jews There is a problem which I have just returned from two weeks in Israel right a place that night, if anyone

family who is jewish or maybe israeli, there's the wall We are merely a metaphor right, there's, no such thing as a Waller door, and now I have that is followed me home. So it's Israel really sort of culture. Ballet, how many people are in your house right now, at the moment, six to nine at any given moment six, thereby I think that a lie and sixty in Ireland it actually never never ends, and I am just it's an identity crisis under siege. I can only speak to an extent if they come up with a whole other capillary word, I'm out of a conversation address our logo like what kind of terms rebate just thrown around right now. Ok, so, given them a task is my father in law. Is a plumber and early really credible craftsman with these things? Some, like listening,

it's gonna, be here: you're gonna work up there right now, dismantling I dont know what they're doing that, bringing all kinds of building codes, just classic classic Israeli. So we have these conversations. Human, I M very clearly a verbal person. I could talk to wall. I love people, I came in. I we like, barely- can be in the same room together because we can't speak. He has the shame about not speaking English and I have the sort of exhaustion About my hebrew level right cause, I very I can go in order, like you know, a juice on the streets and I can make everyone think. I'm a local do not talk to me further than that suit. I play my wedding in Israel, as you know like, and there was a whole genre language. I just had. Never used before they didn t latin papers, for I didn't know how to say like not in the contract

it happens. You have real fast in the literal translations. Back the English are very abrupt, like a lot of give me like. I dont, like that things like that. You don't have the same sort of padding their bowling. Alleys don't have bumpers on it. Let me to say that, yes, your people may not to stereo taste shamelessly, but you're, not really known for gilding the lily. There is a directness, but you want First, things I noticed about. You was just this annoying and chronic level of kindness and optimism. An eagerness to both be understood and to make sure everyone around. You is always comfortable, just so annoyingly nice I'll, never forget the day we met on returning the favor and by the way. Thank you for doing this,

with me. I haven't really talk to anyone publicly, since the show was cancelled and part of the reason is because for the life of me I don't understand it. It's absolutely one of the most baffling decisions. I've not stated or make a personal, but the most baffling decision. I've ever seen in show business, and so here we are clear miss your favorite, however, and I cannot eat what better too to look back and reflect a bit with the most optimistic person. I know here on the hill of her nuptials and her great travelling adventure there's so much. I want to talk to you about, but I love the fact that we just stumbled into this thing around travel, because I think that might be part of the essence of who you are deeply? Thank you

I was very seen by you even reluctantly. You always seen me a tablet. You accept any gum everywhere, but adult your favorite flavour is meant. I also felt this really. I mean spend this huge. There was a grieving process right after Argius because we were in it. we were. The momentum was still rushing in gushing and the people. I mean their messages and these sort of most desperate calls for action. There were just flooding in boxes with about. Why is this programme gone? And this is such a huge part of our lives and it was a move, meant and I'd say it's taken problem. Six months to really wrap my head around this identity and then also now a real desire to return and continue in this way in some way continue.

This work? Is it too? I am, I would venture to say to you, are to know you're, not a depth of your heart. Now it's not like it's not now, no, not even climb slightly nicer, I think than most people in this industry and may be a little bit kinder than average homo sapiens, but next to you, I'm Jeffrey Dahmer next to you, I'm a mass murderers who are a little ray of sunshine, and I didn't realize it right away, but returning the favour was was your show in a weird way. You were the dominant producer and you weren't dear way, with so much screen time. I've really never seen anybody just say bag a host like the way you just took over that

you and I on camera had a really great vibe, because you are on apologies, Eddic lean aggressively optimistic and I'm older than I ve ever been somewhat bitter broken and I think, between the two of us, the viewer got a pretty on a sense that two people who really each other we're out in the world to try and find p all that you wish you had four neighbours and that's why Our little show was it really show at all. It was a mission with cameras fowl, a surround can you see the army and the background? Ok, sir, do you see a clear as day I see a clear as day good, because about two weeks after I got it. That's when they cancelled that happened. I have no idea and really when it didn't like I felt like we had this deep mission, in that we had started and we needed to get back. If anything, it is shown us. It is proof of concept that I will be.

pulling down on in some capacity which use the data, the numbers, the boring terms that gets the screen, let sometimes, but it's so much more. Its superseded, its platform was beyond it was of a movement, it was real, it was a speaking be on love the junk food, the people get served to say. No, we actually want in demand something more nourished we want to see our higher selves reflected back in us inaccessible way. Now. This weird you know my favorite part about these last few years- has been this really demise. I think we're this massive shift in our celebrity culture writing. This idea, like these are the gatekeepers for conversation or fur impact or anything, and I think the power of our show in- and I have talked about this at length sometimes on My sometimes off the power is that it's the people, that is the everyday people, it's the people who also up in the morning at times or it out mark their almond, but

this being the butter prepared for a deeper or something there, not these perfect creatures, but their people who have once you get a taste of what service can feel like him. Once you get a taste of what it feels like to amplify, cause a mission bigger than ourselves theirs no feeling that, with anything else right it's about struck in the world, yes, everything and moderation is where I come from, so I usually draw the line before things lapse too far into that earnest sickening swift goal that you hold so dear But for me, This'Ll, sound weird to people, I'm sure, but I genuinely love finding people, I think you should know and introducing the country to them. That, I think is my job more so than hosting shows that's my job It's your life, it is your whole thing, and so you were different and the other producers on the show, Jacob and Michael and all those guys chuck.

but she knew about their background but sport bash. They were working on a real housewives real week after week after week after week, and so it's the opposite of anything that I would ever watch with respect and so too Michael work. Truly, you know, amid a tv guy for decades, all of Us Hoddan, The Shoah near he pulled me aside. One day, I think we were at the We Rover enrichment, not far from me here, giving away musical instrumental music man. Yes, the music man, and he hold me. Society said micro. Yours call me Michael like John Rich. She couldn't call me MIKE, is micro, my family, we pulled me aside the other day and said that this project is the first. Time. They saw anything that may I am proud of me

MRS Mann, encroaching fifty at that I've ever known in his fiddle usurping approaching he's. He waved goodbye to fifty five years to watch the most jaded tv people weep during some of these reveals and just sit down after the show and just talk about what a joy it was to work on it. Honestly that kind of thing makes my teeth. but I couldn't help but be touched by it, and so we were really lucky. Sarah, we did a hundred episodes of a show. That snuck its way into social media and was downloaded over four million times. We had a good run. We have, great run into me. That's the deep inspiration of the run continue. I have such deep hope that this is a transition happening on a larger level for shopping. We really change the game and ninety of being a show of predominantly because of you were in

since at the beginning that this needs to be transparent experience. We need to remove the fourth wall that makes it actual feel accessible versus feeling, like others, smoked mirrors Hollywood, my mind's can't make that jump to doing it. My own life, because it already feel so separate from you, removed it out barrier. showed all of it showed the sloppiness showed the grinds Stevie making is a grind right. This is how it all comes together, but I'm just so inspired and rubbed up. I believe and people are really believe in people, and once you get a taste of that there's nothing else. That's really palatable now. So, if you take that basic belief that you just described and then kind of filtered through the world were living in right now after a year, half a locked downs. I want to get your take as you have been all over the world, since I saw you last. I've said from the beginning that people are dealing with this, whether it's all macro

honor delta or alpha, or the lock downs or the lost their jobs or whatever, like the five stages of grief, but everybody going through the stages at different speeds to this day, walk around. You can still see it right, there's angering there's denial, there's bargaining. Look that one's dis depressed that when accepted it So what are you saying out there in your truck? rules? And where are you as if I didn't know you Did this thing? She said it was announced office with where I met and then I'll take on a little tour, because there is definitely a massive difference and I do think the seven stages of grief is a really great waiter lives to view I've. I've made worse there, only five. There are only five: what happens if you of all people want more grief, and I think we need seven. Eight ab act, despair and hopelessness.

You know I left a bit. Stop with the russian yeah pressure, depravity, despair, contempt, hopelessness and resignation, beautiful Five, the strong five number one I've been in and out at therapy since I was eight years old, because my mom's a child family therapists, so learning how to identify a name. My feelings is a very into practice like, even if I was talking about a painting Didn't I nothing to talk about? I learned how to talk about it, and so I am the fascinated by resilience and optimism for me becomes a strategy. It's like hope, is a cognitive function, verses and actual arrival it's really retraining. Can you hear them sighing outside? mother, I do my has a guess, largest donor Ok, I like it. Let it go on doing like eight. We just feel like the leaf blower. It's gonna lose. This intent

Certain drill into my skull has become, doesn't like ambient noise for, even if I want to see how a fundamentally optimistic soul handles that's all no, environmental torture. Usually I old up all that to be sought is I got my first reaction when all this hit really writer, I feel a lot of sense of self in. I think you can only empathy, your light gets built by the more time you spend in the shadows right, that's actually how I can amplify it by being the shadow and helping to spread that lay more and so I felt deeply sort of mission centred and full of purpose, and my tank Phil during this time and I think, by virtue of like listen, I got the privilege of having almost four years in my tank of seeing people seeing incredible, people doing incredibly selfless things and then getting to award them and poor rocket fuel on whatever

emissions were in getting to dive in there and seeing them light up missing The light up travel around with you who was full of it by all like somebody, these people and gave such a sense of hope. I mean my tank- was false I have to acknowledge that to where I was at the time, but I really believe, like my Optimism is a daily practice. The daily choice I got fiercer and stronger throughout this whole time. and now I feel like more than ever- people are wandering these five stages of grief. I'll speak specifically. When I went to Israel, people looked shall shocks, they looked up traumatized and it'll tired. I can see a degree of fatigue in everybody. That means, regardless of the countries that I mean, because there just like even the managing of that change. The constant mean life is nothing but transition right.

And it's our relationship with change that determines how what sort of life we're gonna live. Rape by this has been an incredible amount of change in such a short amount of time, and not everyone has had the resources to deal with it, and you know everything we know all the pretence around that. Let me How could you what I felt in the countries I went to? I was foaming in Lisbon. Lisbon is hold without report The goal is as if they were now. I dont speak any experiences, who's been living there and had another experienced by. I do tend to feel like those who lived by the sea. They have love nature, they have a breathing space color, chuck just by way of explanation. For the reason I want The talk to Sarah today, probably for five months ago. I think I was going to Florida, doing something- and I was in america- and it was like two in the morning- and I was all jet- good I'm flip the tv around and there This woman, being shot on this long lens. Like what walking in slow motion through fields

and I know where she is but should familiar, and unlike lying there like a democratic selection so we look so much like Sarah and then the woman starts talking and voice over about what it's like to wander through the Azores and Port go on like so she's. One of these bon voyage travelled specialists now tell her story. I was tired, but I couldn't fall asleep vow, Mary out. Why I'm like? What is she doing? Why you in the Azores, where go ahead, because, obviously you said Lisbon that must have been what you were building over there. Sterical personal, actually hysterical. I was looking for the channel and there you were imports of Amr in the office. No, no doubt

telling you some sort of slow humdrum about my final word. I replied fields in and family trees. That's not what I'm looking for my morning in Amerika, Roger Roger, I'm looking for a many bond quiet time I got that deadbolt go into my door. Iraq do not disturb. do not come in here now what has happened. I'm gonna be popping up for That was two years. I would I keep scaring through your channels quickly and with caution. It was beautiful by the way, can aside say to shot, and you told a great story about, I think if I remembered the jewish diaspora, right or diaspora of your people all over Looking for your roots, did you find them totally.

I found aspects of it, so my family traced back thanks to good old twenty three in me and some help from ancestry Doha I have found that my family traces back to the age oars in theirs is one synagogue. This left on these orders and my dad, who used to own a documentary film production company back in the day. This voyage across over there in built these sort of initial relationships. For me to be able to go in there and the age. the process of every year of your life, Whenever you're confronted more with Europe mortality, I get everything gets more poetic. You have more interesting. curiosity to figure out where you're from and connected to something bigger. We found or from the small enclave of Jews that were kicked out inquisition an like were underground, really were probably masquerading as Christians at that time or cast x and were really observing and keeping jewish tradition within these beautiful

Hills and in these like sort of cave temples and all these places, but what really struck me and moved me and probably impact most about even just studying. This is just how, as we want in the diaspora story is the only thing that maintains right. Like happy you're, most of my family was in Western Europe during World WAR. Two, Jews wasn't exactly like an ideal time to be there, so You lose a lot of her back of it, so you don't have the same tangible to return to, and I could argue most people don't have. That is a curious. The line, but story is really just what maintains ensure these things get amplified, someone draws a little something extra on a k: Wall, Larry's, always exaggerating, adding another cow to downgrade when these are stories that my grandfather, my dad's grandfather, told us through time and through came and tell us what has just been so power.

Or to travel about area? another set of eyes, innocence of sort of connection deeper cause, a mere so where such a hotchpotch were all from somewhere else and we ve arrived here- and I would argue all rallying behind this idea, the ideal of America that we want to defend that idea we're all from so many different places and I'm seeing us develop. Moreover,. We don't know relationship with that, as our world gets more global. It's just happening a real time for me, some sort of in it and observing it simultaneously. As a guy who enjoys for cups of coffee every single morning, a glass of wine at dinner and a sensible bourbon in the evening hours. I am not inclined to scold of you who still smoke cigarettes or soccer, evade pipe or jammed

wads of chewing tobacco between your cheek and gum and then proceed to spit Brown Jews into a styrofoam cup. All day, long now know far be it from me to judge, but to those of you who have struggled to quit smoking raping chewing and spitting into a styrofoam cup. Lucy would like to help Lucy company founded by former smokers who created a lozenge, approved by the FDA, to help people who won stop stop each lozenge gains for milligrams of nicotine and comes in three flavors cherry ice, so this amendment and they can all be in whenever the urge to reach for a cigarette or evade pipe or a lot of tobacco becomes too difficult to ignore, subscription to Lucy comes directly to your door each month, and you guys get ninety percent of all products on your first order. Just go to, see that c, o and use promo code role and, of course, the legal

disclaimer must be read, and it goes like this quote warning this product contains nicotine derived from tobacco. Nicotine is an addictive chemical end quote Of course, if you try to stop smoking or bathing or chewing and spitting, you probably know that already gotta Lucy dot Seo Save twenty percent with promo code row at check out, Lucy dot seo promo code row. Soap large. It still fun right losing returning to favour was kind of a shock. I worry about some of them. people who are involved in the show, because I know it really was like wait. A second you seem to have just kind of double down. On being Sarah. Are you expect this thing to resurrect did self in some way, shape or form. Somehow or another, I would very much like that. I just can't see-

any scenario have about the future that authentic and happy and full in real and me it has huge amounts of Archie. Often it right. Whatever new manifestation of that, and I feel like I kind of feel this responsibility to continue moving forward right, I have the power and the energy and the interest and on a selfish level, nothing that makes me feel more full and whole. Then elevating the right people on story is getting people to rally around them and mainly getting people. I think the thing that makes me most exhilarated. You know I'm a musical there to put sought a five, sorry Chuck Beard, Well, you know Are you kidding me in Israel? I ran away. Yes, yes and now you're my people a great or I'm yours. What I

Been really like during this whole year, because I also want to sit back and the world is changing rapidly right. The stories that were needing and people are tired right people are really tie. Written, exhausted, exhausted, and so it's a little bit of a different worlds, where we were riding that upswing with our task, and now people are just now getting that rest on the plateau for a moment, and then we get our energy to climb another mountain or whatever our next thing, it Aren't you have made me realize we can do things so differently. We can things so so differently, and I want to inspire people in whatever way, and whether its amplifying stories are sharing different messages or just rallying my energy. Behind I want to ignite people's sense of agency to feel like as an individual. They do have the ability to impact a collective. They recognise the power of what it means to start in their community and at home and what an act of kindness

really can do beyond a buzzword. When was the moment when you thought o crap, this thing is bigger than I thought maybe we got a tiger by the tail at one point: we sort of stopped eating words to connect with each other, and there was this real improv magic of just under stand. Each other and the ball throwing back and forth a blackboard while we were building something bigger than ourselves. That was just so: John Nourishing. I don't even know a better word for it, but just such a full whole hearted, it's the feeling you get probably chuck when you're performing- and you have your lines near in that moment, and you ve built a paradigm in that reality with any of the other players on the stage And it's really this special paradigm, but you ve, built that often the ways of the outside world melt away and you're, just president you're just focus so deeply on on the

moments and because I done so many shows before there so many you don't really workable and your usually alone kind of the one trying to not be negative. Baldwin change smokes their cigarettes and has ninety six cup of coffee I could tell you as an observer of this, seeing you I don't remember what the episode was, but I do remember the first time I saw you interacting with MIKE, and I was like oh wow, because it really was special. You guys had a great chemistry straight up the gate, and let me just say this is a guy who doesn't like I can be savvy, I suppose, but you mentioned before, about how breaking the fourth wall was such an important thing MIKE insisted on that and said this isn't a feel good showed. This is the making of a feel good show, and I think it made all the difference in the world, because I never watched an episode of the Chevaux

They didn't get me a little misty at the end, and usually it was because it was so casual, a lotta back and forth, because we were seeing the wards in all aspects of it all of a sudden when something real got. There was like, oh wow, you know this is really good stuff. It was just beautiful and I never should have gone away. I agree, and I do think, though, that there's the audiences vote it re. They voted with their attention. In a time. That's the only kind of metric that really matters in real impact way. They very clearly shut up for that it showed us that peace are able to draw connection between what their observing behind a screen to their real lives. Right, like I said where it online showed that creates offline action and it's the constant which you know. I do a tribute to my completely for holding that full troll pillar, that sort of continued that torch passed along to me as well, as is now also like, really maintaining none.

Manning, not that it's gonna feel like you, ve kick your shoes. Often your curling. Up with thing. Warm friends, couch and it's gotta be a Trojan horse like we need to entertained adieu team is real. I learn best when I'm laughing I can relate, and what are they say that laughter is like another form of prayer, the highest former prayer, even if we tell him fart, jokes and I'm one of them, but everyone- women with nine hundred guys, but I would argue that I could hang and handle a twin brother. I order you maybe I was even though I bid in the cab with you that for its number one and super say your prayers and suddenly I'm like you wanna crackle window, sir. I mean all the God. What happened family, maybe our lives. We leads on their people, said Chuck in regard to the dynamic you're talking about that, the shovel best when we finally led Hudson be Hudson, the production company and lead might be MIKE, but the

it is a Sarah with somewhere between the two of us. She was the connective tissue that allowed a pretty traditional production company who wanted to do a fairly straightforward shown by the way. That's what Facebook wanted to write. They wanted move that bus. They just wanted to go straight for the fields, but you can't get straight to the feels without violating people, and so I didn't want to do that, and that was the tricky back bullets and Sarah is actually Sarris filthy job I mean you, don't give a shit, a filthy sense of humour she's, really appropriate chill far too few feels like it she'll tell of color jokes. But she's so sweet she so relentlessly optimistic that that's what makes her interesting, but, finally, to give credit where its due like my share of it, because the idea of a documentary, camera or a beauty, Camera originated with dirty jobs. The smarter

I did on that show and the only reason it's coming back next month is because we got that component introduced into the production back in two thousand five. It wouldn't have happened here, but for Mary Sullivan. You know Mary, Sarah, you love Mary who Dunlop Mary, I loved, nay, but I passed on this show three times. No Hell no Are you out of your mind, stop asking me right. There was is no way. I'm going to do a feel good show no way in the world, but it was Mary who pulled me aside and said: look dummy just do the same thing you did with dirty job, just document the making of the show. Everything else will be what it is. I did know what that man yes said. She was right. It so difficult today to get I hit show in general. everybody on this call knows, but to get a hit, show that unique and not derivative, that's nearly impossible,

and to get a hit show that unique that has two million followers on Facebook, who every single week are going hey. That was great. What about this? What about him, you know to have the show programmed for you, fans of the show that is insanely rare, its lighting in a bottle. It's very here to get and that's why I think we were all surprised when Facebook said now. You know what I think you know what good. We did a hundred. We want to do something else. It's there. and box no harm, no foul, but boy, it was just a straight up. Surprise for Anybody who works in this industry, as we all have to have a network slashed platform, go while yeah. That was amazing. I guess we're done what and I would argue there was harmony. Thou is just such a unit. Either Teresa comes in

He can Algeria that the difference between this show everything you just said. I agree wholeheartedly completely and we were flabbergasted. as we all accelerated through those stages of grief, everyone's a different levels with this whole Archie community, it felt like This isn't even a show. This is about real people and their real people. Now who are missing out on the ability to be amplified their real people who need this left. This is where all the television money should go to. These are the people who need the endless amount of advertising cash or whatever it is. This is something that really moving the needle and if you want to walk your talk, there's no better treadmill that aren't, you have the right. We had a formula going, but it was about real people and it still is about real people and not makes it bigger than my sadness or bigger than my frustration are bigger than my loss of that paycheck. Absolutely look, first and foremost, we're just friends and we're talking casually off the cuff

honestly, but I know that the fundamental feeling for this whole thing is one of gratitude. We, were given an extraordinary platform the chance to reach a billion people. and a lot of money. We go if away millions of dollars on this show- and we got paid fairly, don't mean any of this to some critical of Facebook. They gave us an extraordinary platter and a hundred swings at the periodic and we hit it every time. It's just that Facebook is not a network. Facebook is a different animal. I dont believe I can speak for them, but I dont think they looked at this as a show. Either they looked at it as a thing to do for while and then they need to do another thing and that's ok, we just what it used to it. Unfortunately, neither

the fans. I don't know about you, but not a day goes by when I don't hear from dozens of them, I mean literally, does when's it coming back. and also how is so in so doing do keep up with any of them totally you. Actually. Right and I will also say that Facebook gave us tremendous freedom. Microsoft is more of just it's an optimistic critique because I do think there's new portals, open and new We ve challenge some convention these last few years, reopen charging convention since two thousand five before that, but we ve chance of convention that makes me think There are now other ways to move around their other gatekeepers. There are other ways to get back to the people which really matters, but Facebook did give us tremendous freedom, an amazing platform. For that. I get message Just like that, all the time as well, I do my best to keep up. I have insane Google docs of everybody. I know any community organizer, even someone who may be helped us or assisted or do

better or insider and their wife and just little notes, you'd make it like a hostess stand. You know, like Larry Blue eyes,. dad jokes or something like that, he just something make clusters I'm looking at this document and its this beautiful mosaic of the other America that very real and that's alive and is true, the multiple treats of all times, but there So many do gooders in this country, and I argue everyone's capable of it. You know where I stand by northeastern gets a bit like I watched it's a wonderful life yesterday, for maybe the five hundredth time in my life it gets me free time, and I see something new in it every time I watch it, I think if that movie so much or I thought of it so much when we were filming this series, because we really are connect,

it and sometimes it's not the reward. It's not the money that we were giving these people. It was just paying attention and putting them up on that platform. Think about Loop Mickelson. That may have been the episode where I met you as they precipices twin. calls. Yet when it was when I got out of the van and I met him in real time in camera, and her acting her and they are like were driving along she's in the back seat. She goes well. Our honorary this week is especially good, and I make no Sarah all equally good. Ok, we're going to suggest this guy's special. You might as well do say the rest of my dog crap. Ok, don't do that

ok, ok, ok and then she said something else that I correct or again just cause. I'm just seen where the line is what this woman, but the line is nowhere. You can get away with anything with Sir shall role with anything. My point was a loving you loved Luke because your enthusiasm for him there, was the dynamic that I wanted in the show that I hadn't experienced. Yet I will producer. Who was jumping out of their skin with enthusiasm, to introduce me to someone and that's what you got immediately and you did and then we it, and then it goes on the air, and this guy went from what eight chapters when we met him. I think he has almost six hundred now. It's unbelievable end of the year sure he was sleeping heavenly peace. This is the guy that makes the bunk beds for poor kids. Really rough parts down.

I've been on the ground every night in this country, millions of kids sleep on the floor. They don't have a bed, it's incredible. And this guy look Mickelson just said. No, not my town started making beds yet h, actors. When Sir introduced me to him, and now I think, he's well over five hundred, I dont know how many You think about the impact of that day, that one day that one meeting and then return the favour goes on and his entire world changes. That's not a tv show its naivety you show, and you see it like. I remember. I think we shot that the following year, less than a year later, I living in new york- and I met him in New York down by central park where he was being nominated. I came in with him and his wife piety and amazing woman in the invited me as there guest because I was living there to attend. He was a nominee to foresee an hero ward, so he gets to be put another camps and he gets to be recognised and it was just that beautiful acceleration of I've always had

strange time with the people that we amplify culturally, particularly after you know No shame in escape. Hissed reality. Television around like in the Bravo World, things like that, I sometimes feel sad about the over Empress. This. We have on that with the under emphasis of some other people like people, you would highlight dirty jobs right and so They show proved that wasn't just a sweet, lovely, charming little concept that actually could make me money on a bottom line level in terms of people being interested in it and really actually inspired offline action re. It was not this that forthwith has begun. It engaged the viewers and reciprocal process right the creation of the art, the reception of the art, putting it back in it. Was this really. I can't think of another example of that show in any John Raw. No right that really broke that we very merely screwed it up a couple of times. early on, because you just mentioned before letter what

that really chaps my ass hero She used all the time and, in my opinion, its misuse. More often than not heroes, A real and heroes are important. It something more than simply being kind and good and big hearted. and that's part of the reason, I was kind of a jagged little pill on returning the favour, because I didn't want to turn these people into heroes. I just wanted to thank them for being slightly better than the average, their producers have a hard time with that producers want the hero. We want the incredible in the first season I remember sitting and on some production meetings and hearing thing right. Well, this guy's doing great work He got us some trouble years ago did a little time. So we really can't put him out there as the embodiment of the kind of person we're looking for I was like that's exactly what I want to do. I would like to show people that

even the fallen and the flawed are capable of doing something good. Arguably more more capable right will you felt what it feels like to have the follow you can empathize with the people. In that you know, you need to feel awful range to be able to give the floor and you need to show the full range, I'm so suspicious to you- I'm not sure the send some allowed to save I'm suspicious, diversity, for diversity, sake, whenever I see every box checked in just the right way, it makes me think: ok will somebody's checking boxes, but on this show it was really important and we featured many people of color. We featured people of all orientation since we featured, I think as many men as we did. Women, maybe even more and then from on personal, biased, Sarah we leaned in two cops we leaned in the military me mean how many shows did you, and I do looking

at organizations who were wrestling with PTSD and finding alternative ways to move that needle I'm damn proud of that and I'm honestly more proud with every passing month. When I look back on that What was your moment if there one honorary for you- and I know that's a stupid question- has just this morning- somebody hit me with your. What was your dirty job like miniature? This morale provision may have heard the shows coming back on the second of January to eight o clock. This January January twenty twenty two. It's coming right now, just couple weeks. Yes, if bag man, I don't believe I love it. The people been starving for it. I think so taking this now, that's it that's what the country needs is more a me. I don't want to show you a here s. My life at a loss for another word and right with you chuck. I am at a loss

exactly so, who is it the person I feel like it. So I can see Luke is very clear. That was my first thing right after the work to be wide, open and housing, and- and I kept quest Is this really as wonderful as it seems, and it was every single time I had the ability chuck to be able to like use my superpower of of warmth and genuine curiosity for people to actually connect them with money right. I was out of my head down. I got a double down and I'm gonna work my ass off. It's not about me, it's more like either an opportunity Do something bigger golf course melts. My heart, third is built. Doesn't melts my heart, build those who run the you phone calls I took when I got married in Israel Chuck in two thousand nineteen right for the world's shifted and build? and was one the only phone calls I took from abroad. For him wishing me after the eyelash bill dancing on paper, we are all like what the hell is, this a gulf.

where's like defending the right to have golf courses is great, but when you're putting it against the opening oil crisis and foster care and homelessness. You needed to do a little digging, it needed to be convinced more and this man became emblematic for me as really understanding what kind of impact you have on your community with just community care in general, like truly a duke This man was just tell the lesser out he at least he was eating. I at the time I think maybe, and he lived on a mountain in the back beyond what Tom was it, sir, it was a bright outside a spill Kane Washington yeah. He lost his brother, not too long. for we met him and those two were just thicker than thieves. They lived together and they built this municipal golf course. Together on their property, which they open for free to anybody who wanted to Gulf and they

intended, they cut all the grass. They took care the greens. They did everything and they did it all for whatever donations you could leave behind and I remember when they pitched it to me. I was like the sounds perfect and to Europe they're like yeah, but it's not like you during cancer. Unlike no securing cancer. What he's doing he's, making every day, a little bit better for the people who share his geography, and so that's awesome. Let's go me the old guy and man you're right. That day was genuinely from sat up to Sundown seriously. from the moment we landed and I'd scooped up out of the many van, and I hoped you might golf But would you rather be this man he's just he is someone who makes you believe if you forget

really. Is this just pure hard, Ed, giggly goofy, his human he'll tell a dirty joke. He'll, be playful he's just warmth is the best of us that to me becomes one of the more powerful episodes, because it's so deeply accessible and remind you that all we need people to come alive and whatever may them feel alive and ask the stuff we need. We don't need you to go out there, like. I don't have the skin to be in the foster care community. I wish and I salute them. I don't have the skin road. I don't have the skill set for awhile firefighter. I don't care age, but I do have a warm and I can love on my neighbour and I can be generous when the opportunity presents itself and that's the stuff we need from people right, you know it's the danger and swinging for the fences. All of the time as a producer, you want the hero. You want the big story,

you want the home run, you really want to do is build a hit, show and the way to build It shows with singles and doubles just keep putting runs on the board and build Einstein was just a solid right down the middle ages. Matzoh great point: we featured some people who go so far and beyond who are so altruistic, who are so completely given over to their cause. that it's a little unreliable. The average person looks at that goes. I could never dedicate my whole life to that, but anybody could do would build it. And to be. Eighty. Nine to be so present. He touched a lot of people, and then remember he did something else pretty strong ordinary something that makes show like this matter in ways that we often don't think about, but he died. Our friend build died

and he died not long after we profiled him and the letters I got from fans the letters I got from his family from people who knew him, who were just MIKE. Thank you. Thank you for shining a light on our friend. This will have unfortunately, to you more and more as you Workin television and you get older and older there a guy who we feature in this episode. This right, of dirty jobs coming up who died a month after we filmed in no met him yet, and people are gonna love him. and then I'm gonna hop on after the show and explain what happened, and so, if you're gonna do a show that real if you're gonna do a show about life, then also ultimately going dish. It will show that saying goodbye to

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right and there's nothing. I mean there's no greater muse than mortality for nothing, there's nothing that drives you harder than mortality. In that way. I think that I would venture to say cautiously. These last few years have been a gift, even if it's been a painful one. At times it really wakes you back up in this fear it gets amplified after its left the body to there's this way of feeling like you want to honour someone who's made out impact on you. I feel like I feel some motivated to continue when they know that persons not do in the leg work right, it's like being part about school projects behind us lacking and then you're always student get sick and you have to rally somewhere along there. That's good metaphor to show me me feel just we weren't alone separation is a myth or so connected. We walk round indifferent bags, askin

different experiences and we have different narrative, arcs, indifferent resources when you tap into that core part of people that so deeply human and the messages of it and thus slippery playful NASA. I think that it can be used as the stuff. The made everything melt away. That Archie ever really feel like narrowed down on, and I would say you protected that you mean, because we came from a world where I was working, a lot of jobs. The U n. Prior to this, like I hadn't, worked on the same kind of shows, with the shows that I had worked on. You don't have another option, you must in question it wrote it wasn't a push back. This is just we get the sloppy weird model we have the plug it in. This is the way it is key, moving, robotic leon- you really rewired my brain in that way, and the show then continue to reinforce that as a truth and a possibility. So this full circle, I'm Werner ts and dime so fuelled to continue the work in the world

like? I just feel so inspired by that good. I'm glad you do. I think at this point your definitely too Young, to be better and broken, but you're, maybe too young to I don't know the thing about the moment you're talking about. Is that you can't really appreciate them until some time goes by I knew that bill was super special. When I met him because he reminded me of my granddad and my grandma is the reason dirty jobs when on the air in the first place and my purse, or feeling about the way we ve become disconnected from the elderly, in our country is well it's personal and it makes me angry and it makes me feature a lot of old people on the shows that I work on. Whenever I can you still no, you have to shoot it, and then you have to leave eve and then somebody else has to take. It may have to edit it and then it has to sit and then it airs, and then you

still don't get to decide the viewers get to decide. You just put it out there you make the best. Guess you can I pretty sure that people we're gonna love bill and they did I've been wrong before too. I bet peasant its humbling, sir. You just don't know right now. I've got ridiculous song on the charts called status dirty job right now. That thing turned into a thing. Last week, was the most downloaded song in the world. I shouldn't have happened a bag when I did it with the guy I just met, and we did it as a fundraiser and it turned into this giant thing. That's most micro sentence that experience have ever seen in my life. What you just I bet entire experience from an afterthought of unbelievable yeah. I mean if it's not that I'm in an area like an around, I see Sarah walk through a field of flowers and I'm not going what it's weird my life, but

point, is I got treatments around here that Britain years ago and I've got pitches for all kinds of ideas that I really think are good and I've worked on them and I have done everything I can to make them work and they don't work the stuff it works is the stuff that, I don't know you just never know which peace somebody's gonna stick. I think the point I was trying to get toured was. I can't believe. brought a bill. That was gonna, be my answer, but what about Mama was Abigail MA, upper Ma Harbour for crying out loud Abigail she's from the stand inflating fiction with Nonfiction Mama harbour my heart Bergen. To talk and Barbara, I haven't acted they're, probably in one, the Nazi Party, seven months, She is kicking and strive to morrow. Burma is a delicious human being MA, Harper Rand's a care. Remember the name of its in

Bob stuck on Delicious. I dont know that describe humans is delicious. Sarah, especially one from run a kitchen retirement, resurgent positions, have been spending too much time on that with Dahmer family read over the last months since Christmas, with the owners or affected at the next it more Harper. is a woman who, so how to give love and really was relentless with not she didn't give up. souls she ran a kitchen and it was Lloyd. Almost I think, excuse simply by ex can't yet she hired ex cans to do everything to cook. To wait and she was like. Maybe a hundred and forty years old, surely rightly attention yet. Antonia senator taxes. She ran it height ship. She was sweet, she was ancient

We gave her some money and through a little surprise party at the end, I was touched by that when two, because the enthusiasm and the gratitude of her own found and the people who came out there? It was one other one of my favorites, because it was small and big. At the same time, it was micro and macro is good one that was my as well. Part of my job was to sort of get boomerangs out into the community, and I had to struggle build relationships and build trust with the can. please, I signed a lot of church pews and diners. And living rooms, which you know he stood out of my love that I love that anthropology wager with more the kitchen I went in there and I was immediately dancing some sort of local data They were doing in her kitchen beards dancing around there for so long, and this woman is time she's a Polly pocket of a human being truly and she's, just bombing with life and vibrancy and she immediately feels like everyone's grandmother, but just that special kind of love.

can't get from, and she just never gave up on us all. She's had about nine hundred strokes. Any other organs are the organ she was born with, like this woman is resilience and she just kept her kitchen open. I mean it was not a for profit business at the end of the day, even if it was functioning as that, if you needed a hot meal, you came to my Harper if the world, while cold and lonely you came to my harbour- should give you tough love. She give you a meal, but more than a meal should give you a job right. You don't wanna, be fed. You wanna work, you wanna job, choosing Annabelle you just fill some went home with her guys if my computer's dying one glance, guy classic, of course, she's a producer she's been operating with a computer. That's not your problems old time she enthusiastic and very pretty, but she's, not that bright. I gotta tell you my favorite like it just hit me really hard. I remember really getting emotional with it was operating lifesaver I'll, tell you what got me more than ever

thing for his talk, necessarily the story of the individuals like you're talking to guide this limbs and stuff like that. But what got me was that all the cops showed up. The fireman showed up the bikers showed up like the whole community, came out to surprise this guy, and I was like wow this guy. That's a it's a wonderful life moments. You see all those people were affected. That was every ending episode of already. If all of the people, in the community, but that one got me really. I think I cried every single safer like one or two, depending on our challenging the opposite. Had been just with the battling the elements I'm just thinking: drop areas finale their worries me, tears her bad. I figure, wet glance at emptied all the water by body, a wake. The showed became addictive. You were running for that feeling of this is

real life and you're. Having in this is a wonderful life moment all the time, but it's real life. The people coming together rallying behind this person. That was then was moving part of them but for me it was also the thing that I worried the most about as we got into the second and third season, because the active observing thing changes the thing: the uncertainty, principle, Heisenberg and so forth. That is true in tv on steroids, when people know that tv and I ve seen a show this started to happen Dirty jobs early on and I found a way to fix it where people would start to perform, because there is some sort of expectation this show especially difficult, because it was a surprise and so the first season Chuck part of the reason that episode with Jason Sailorman got you part of the region Operation bike savour worked so well is Jason and his wife thought I was there to do like a dirty job. They were like wisely

dirty job guy here. This is so cool shoot out his. They knew me from that, and so the past ability that their Morgan to come around the corner and see the entire can dirty waiting for them with eighty three dollars worth of new parts and a quick many tools and unaided structure, and all this up it was conceivable that it would happen and that I thought was pretty great, and then season to comes along and I'm like, ok so had episode, was viewed over fifty million times so now we got it. It would again and now people are going to be like. Oh it's you, oh my god, again present. What's he gonna be, and I like it so we don't know this. I just when I said look. We had a good run, but we only have two columns here: killed the shell or replace them,

You know that I was ready to step aside. I said it's a facebook and I set it to Michael, I said, look I'll step aside. I think you have a good thing going here, but how you gonna, surprise people if No I'm there, and so I really struggled with how to do that and then for a while. It was like well you're the surprise, my so they'll know when you show up that something good gonna happen. They just don't know what it is and I thought well, I guess it's Christmas morning. you know you're gonna get somethin exactly you just don't know what we settled into that, and then it I'm not that you really maintains the integrity belt on the whole show in that way. It's a good motivator too. fund raising outside fund raising and we wanted a project that was bigger than maybe what we were given by the network. To give. You know, on the show being seen being philanthropic tends to motivate people to want a double down and get onstage. That's fine! That's great! We use that in our favour and every one one

was a thing. I'm in the amount of fake production companies manage pseudonyms we responded to. We were filming a high level. duration trying to get my gun and there were some people that were just we would when it was someone who had been living under Iraq and didn't know or just had never seen MIKE with war. Those are few and far between, but we would love that because it was just this very rare, a moment where we could really. We had a little what time is it always figured it out? We have probably like a half hour window before they really starts big wait, a second that voice that face some then you're here, which really screwed up SARA. I haven't admitted this before and by the way, Haggerty back. That's very funny, like a chastity belt only with honour. I went from saying. Look I'm at a step away from this thing, because people know me and I don't want a racket to exact

would you describe coming across people in season three and four who didn't know me and walking and saying to myself. Tat was the matter with them people have they not know who I am. I know you not, MR, why are you worthy of this to you wanna tell I assume you know nobody, no surprise for you maybe in time you'll pay more attention. It's just so strange being in tv making tv trying hard to get out of your own way. That's really the thing so leave our conversations both on and off com. have been about. Can we get out of our own way with this? How can we just let the show be the thing we wanted to be? It's like the hippocratic oath for producers. Don't pick it up

job one turned pale and somehow there's a lot of beautiful camaraderie that comes from when you have a healthy, sat in everyone's operating with a culture of collaboration, and we really working for something bigger and- and I swore an oath years ago, that I really couldn't compartmentalized isnt a balanced lifestyle production and that world you really are fully in its eighteen eighteen hour days, you're travelling all the time. You don't have a standard dynamics in your life. You really choosing to give your life to this thing. I made the oath at supply for years before our task to not do anything that wasn't uplifting or didn't. Really. I can't sell something. I don't believe in it's not worth time my energies and served while. But this

She was so much more than a show. It's a movement that I think is still deeply its bubbling. It's there, it's dormant in its waiting, its activities. People are gonna, keep going, because that was how we chose people talk to what these people continue to be doing. This of a camera was not in their face. Would they be doing not off camera? I would say everyone Rory feature Ninety nine point, nine percent of it there still operating. They were operating the day we laughed, they are operating the day before we arrived, that's the critical component that makes it so much more than a show the cameras mix people very strange. The camera can be a crazy maker. It really pulls out some wild hearts of people in it can amplify some of the darker points of people as well, but this show, which is the amount of background checks. We would do that fortunately, then, were pushed beyond our standard background check to say: is this person really living a life now?

now we love a CD passed. There is a process that was a problem, not a city present. Indeed I keep badgering this point. I am deeply inspired and energized and exhilarated by the future that now been sort of carved by Archie Ass. We have we too many numbers for this to be something that doesn't move the needle. If it gets you repackage door pitch- definitely are something look, I'm? U that's part of the reason I wanted to have yon, believe it or not a fair amount of people. Listen to this thing and some of them work in the business it doesn't have to be faced. It does have to be called returning the favour netflix. Could green light pay it forward? We could pick up right where we left off. Do you remember TAT, I think is it was Barney. I think it might have been may be the first thing did they locked out Farley's food, Panther lorries, food pantry that an important one to because it was just so great to see you again and was so good

to be out in the world and actually shooting something when nobody else was it's worth. Remembering too we did. What eighteen of these things in this exact? me sitting right where I'm sitting now you guys out in the world trying to pull the returning favours long distance. He kidding those things, I'm sure I'm not supposed to say this, but those things got better numbers than the show its cause How the antibiotic involves? That's why we can cause if you make some of your red ribbon Sultan through last name Sultan and pushing her name. She is a book called the Paradise built in hell and talks about these utopian instincts that we have in devastation, and the devastation could be anything from a shared calamity. Like someone s house fire, it brings out, you know to something larger than we

all experience and and Pre Cove, and I did a lot of like my masters study on this, of just how we bring out that more utopian philanthropic nature in people outside of a catastrophe, but Archie ass. The people on our task is how red spending more time with these people. remember that you can make a difference in the smaller way. That's why I did love these stories like Bill, Dunstan and more Harper, and things like that. Those tended to be the ones that really struck me even more just because they were so accessible. Let me out of excuses to around whether model its modesty. That's all there is to it, if there was any ongoing debate between me and production. It always had to do with modesty because the size of the reveal was often bigger was better. bigger the reveal the better it is so, let's get a football field, let's fill the stadium, let's don't from the moon, it'll, never stop, and it's like. No, it's.

Actually, not that and it's the same point you're talking about a paradise built in hell when you wait for the calamity to call the cage and navy, but the true says somebody's doing some cage and navy stuff right now right down the street. Somebody somewhere in your neighborhood is doing a thing that is actually noble. We're gonna, memorialize that or ignore it the choice to pay attention. Those small acts was the reason I ultimately did returning the favourite that, combined with the behind the scenes camera. That was it for me anything that was on somebody else's die, or in somebody else's lane. My job was to keep at small. Try not to get in our own way and see what happened we all did our jobs. Actually said something to me once in one of those suvs: think you were driving, which would explain why my sphincter was slammed shut, so tight

sir, as many things jack straw thing is passenger gap drivers, not one of us to be fair. She had a lot going on right, she's thinking of a lot of things, she's producing a show, she's dead, having an suv she's trying to get us to the proper location, but she's off a camera with three for camp is in the Suv Social. all jammer she's now a gating? She try to have a conversation with me dry. to get our own way trying to do all these things, but she's so driving, and it still. This is straight up terrifying. I think we were in Snoqualmie up there he's a disease sailors, laud idea, member, The shameless lodge like this alias large or the sailing from research effort and very nearly got cut in half by eighteen Wheeler whereby we lived, I forget exact, We what I said and Sarah got weirdly serious fermented. I think you were quoting

somebody, but you said: look my job is make sure no one has ever humiliated in my press, tranquil, Frankel, ok and I thought what a great sentiment, what a great thing bring into tv, especially in the world of reality, where people's discomfort and people's pain, people's humiliation is the stuff of her. its return. The favour was the opposite of that you, are the opposite of that in here with their Christmas around the corner, I shot one of my favorite jewish friends could come on. Spread a little sunshine, their hunkered down your bunker, with sixty nine working away on plumbing and drilling your computer quietly loses its power used where the last remaining carpenter we job, but that's probably a good place to start to land the plane. When you think about Loop, Mendelson, Mormon,

maybe with less money on it. I know- and I think about you, Yes, it Heidi with her integrity belt, nevermind the chastity, the big one. What forty five kids? I'm pretty sure I know how it which way, the blood over there. It was an credit, the diverse cast. It was really accurate. Cross section of our country if people of various backgrounds and legions and identities. All with really one thing in common: try, They make their little slice of their zip code a better place to be the good thing we did Monsieur grow a good thing, I'm eighteen to get back out there. I faith, is, isn't the ends in some capacity. Just we ve seen too much I'm not I'm actually chafing rebel movements even worse, it starts with its job and then then stay. You know your chafing and then your ordering the bloodshed ointment off the infomercial, hoagie,

to get a momentum using outing, Lilli, Gruber Club to scratch that I believe these items are Sarah working on now right now, I am actually building of my own little adventure, that's operating unkind of a five year plan. That's really the thing! I've determines for anything, that's real. It's that fun. You can make a plan, and then God laughs and Jake's it up so my long term plan. So I'm building a production company that Ipad for years, but I'm shifting it over to something called common ground, studios which I want to just be a part of creating and launching any kind of uplifting amplifying of character stories that make people feel inspired and think and mainly giving people the tools and the skills in the UN's relation to regulate their own. Chauncey tonight, wait around for something else to make a change in their world in any capacity make a change in their lives, but could change in their common.

it is, and so I'm starting upon task that I would love to view on lake and chalk coming. For this you guys together, it's just going to be helping people to believe in the possibility of a better future and exposing them to the voices in the people who are already making that happened right. We need to see to believe how you going to make it non earnest. How are you going to make it not so sick, namely sweet that my teeth are gonna start hurrying again, exam This is my Achilles heel. I want to make it still home in the show. Is it's always a trojan horse? those the horses they get through the gate right, and so this is going to be wrapped up in it's going to be playful and goofy and it'll be self deprecating it'll be entertaining and then within it you're going to walk her Well excuse me, but you know what happens

Frazier horse gets through the gates right. Ok, sorry, the horns, unknowingly they're gonna get us to the star. He do you understand men crawl out of the belly of the horse and murder and rape every one in the walls. Everyone so were I intercept. I take these men. doubtful sunshine. We stop their skulls, putting someone with a beating heart, come in there and you end up feeling like well shit. I'm motivated to do something nice today, because I already have it didn't, make it really of San to ban people sort of dormant resilience and optimism. Because optimism is it's: a strict Just wait! A live beer living better for you to hope and feel that you have the power to actually make an impact right. It's not a naive choice. I would argue tat leader should have already in your own self right to be able to

to say I have no idea how it's going to turn out, but if I have a binary choice, good or bad, I'm gonna go towards the good and I'm gonna keep my eyes on the possibility and because I would say that our show what made me feel like this really is more than just a moment in time its debt, it ignited something we all know right. Whatever faith you are, would have organisations your part of when you tap into the power of service and knew tat happened to really how

good that feels for you how unbelievably good it feels a son, a selfless acted too selfish act in a beautiful way right it bill. So damn good to feel like you can make a difference and to adjust. Even you know, sharing generosity of spirit. Whatever it is, but I was shocked over this year to realise how many people just felt so powerless in that and really kind of delegated their power and gave it away and were waiting on either the government or larger industry or something to make a change in their lives and to After all, these people that we ve talked with a know intimately on our tee ass, I realise that one thing that they all have, as they have a resilient optimism to get sucked done. They believe that they can make it happen. Well, why are we accepting something like this? What are things we can do versus just lamenting and stirring up all that time?

inside. So we're and optimism active alignment. Optimism activist, I actually was exactly what you actually own bat trademark from boys. Shot. I really I just infringed on your ip with compliments, but please it's. My life will become tangled any thought uh you know of a good luck with joy. Never I would surrender before I would guess. You'd never not want to mess with the irish hammer and your lawyers yet another conflicting quality that that's better coverage, that dynamic, We wouldn't be able this conversation if it weren't for her, because again it was her suggestion that got the Bt S camera on the set, It was that camera. They got me on the set, and here we said the itch, the chief That's the thing I want to leave you with that's the way to take the piss out of that's the way to keep us feel good.

oh from turning into a lecture or a polemic, or something that hurt your teeth, Just remember that, sooner or later, something's going to each probably in an uncomfortable place, a private place and you're gonna have to scratch. It then you're, probably gonna, get caught scratching it. Just like you started in the suv that is going to happen and one day the aging is going to go to chafing and then you're gonna come back and you're gonna say tell me more about the blue start ointment. I think that's a good place to leave this really. What the world needs is ointment we didn't list. Do you know what this is strange element? I don't get her for Christmas I get my jewish friend for Christmas, a tin of blue sky argument. In fact, when we're done, google it, you can probably find an old add forward, but it literally to cream. You robbed on the parts, your body that might be edging or chafing, but it's also good for thing

like Psoriasis ring worm, there's a long list of things that they have on the commercial, but the one that really stuck with me over the years was tat. Her tattered The e t are here. What is this? still, not sure it's not good. something you want. It's a skin, condition, it could be a fool of ring worms, but it's just one of them many things that bluestocking ointment who is not a sponsor this project by maybe they should shut I want you to reach out to blue star ointment sponsorship deal and then get Sarah somebody because the product the chafing the ring worm and the tattered good tat, her chalk right now we're talk. I won't understand what it is. I literally saw the add for this last night and it says it cured Tedder, which I think can

happen I think, reached three authorities. Yes, three ts altogether askin, these in humans or animals causing itching partiality patches, such as eczema Veterinary maritime right. I would also argued, there's no more appropriate present to give to your jewish friends than a tin called blues star. I think that maybe we made, invented that rights look typically as shock casino, happened now countless times. I talk to my guess. Until somehow we forest dumper away into a place where it all comes back together, then something It takes a long time. Sir. I love, but here I think we did this episode is really about the idea that return. The favour was the blue star appointment that our country needed at the time. Now, when I look around this great land, I see a king, I see chafing, I see ring worm, etc that I see tat her.

But I also see my friend, Sarah armed with blue star ointment running out there among the great unwashed Mary this miracle cream all over their pustules and making If a little better, that's the feel good stuff. that I want to leave the listeners of this podcast with you, armed with blue startle, hit thank you, my fellow house, with sixty nine June at any given moment. Ah, that's beautiful anything else what a plug before we go out there and go crazy with the blues, not know that look out for possible future podcast, we'll get him I'm running MIKE, I'm ass at our front, Chuck just chuck discomfort everything and keep looking out impetuous them shows we're hungry were chafing where it were tattered up You want to go. I don't think I don't think you using that word the way its post tattered up show. There have been

we want to follow your or reach out to. You would certainly had ended. Why wouldn't believe me? I set aside from the exam over Siberia reward. This arises she's really love is a lovely curse and about the gothic, barely contagious tiny dangerously optimistic. You can find me on social media. You can find me at Sarah, your brow, why? Oh you are GR, a you with an inch and then you didn't write to me on sorry. Your goddamn come, and I love getting emails on there, she really does deal creepy better guys. She ran from this agreement Marie multinational holder for this most are protected seal fur, the threat of stumbling back into the waking life. We're gonna need more tools and more support than ever more things,

hold onto and more mirrors of our better possibilities and our better natures, speaking tool, one quick protests just to leave you with. As you embark upon this whole podcasting get a microphone but worse, you can expect a far better audio quality. The message you expect kids there's only one way to go on with only one way to go. started to make good works after that there can be no exploitation said, guards. Really. I love you we thank you for making time This was really for the fans of returning to favour. I know they're still out, there hope springs eternity, especially when you're chatting with the copy written the owner of the optimism activist, something keep in mind. If you don't want to get sued, you might want to lay off that turn of phrase. I Charlie, thank you, Sarah bag eyes, geology, great bang,