Our friends that's the way, I heard it episode over two hundred and thirty four, this one is called diapers and masks and sharks. Oh, my now now you find it up its diapers masks sharks, oh my lions, tigers and bears oh my Layaway Tiger all right I'll give you that when I didn't back it up, you want to do so favorite, countless it again, so you don't have to live with this humiliation, free tool. Hello, France is the way I heard it episode number two hundred thirty four, this one's called down papers and masks and sharks. Oh my This is the preamble part of the programme to which you have no doubt become accustomed, but today we have a slight twist because joining me for the preamble is the producer of the podcast. You know

you love him. You know him anyway, it's jaw, Klaus, my although everyone welcome the two thirty four and they love you by the way do they, you read the comments made their mildly fond of me, I was not mildly fond of you yesterday, because to those of you who, who follow me religiously, on Facebook. Why aren't you? Why? Wouldn't you I put up a meme yesterday and I want to describe the meme to you and I want to describe the fall out of the meme, It happened like this. I woke up early and found attacks from a friend of mine, a man who sent me this aim of rod sterling right. And rod certainly hosts the twilight. Socrates standing. he's got? A cigarette is handed he's. Looking, you know, like rod. Sterling looks like right in the middle of saying something important. And the meme says, imagine

There's a ninety nine point: nine seven percent chance that you won't crap your pants, but you are forced to wear a diaper just in case Now imagine you have to wear a diaper to keep your neighbors from clapping their pants. Now you get it right. This is some commentary probably on masks and mask policy, and the current ambiguity surrounding the mask policies- and it was very early- and I had now my coffee and this thing me laugh. So I sent it to shock and jumped. What did you do I laughed and replied genius Correct, and then thought you know. It is kind of ingenious, a little subversive, a little cheeky, perhaps but it reminded me of a photo taken years ago at a diaper factory with me in the dirty jobs, crew. And if you go to my facebook page now

I think you can still see it unless it's been removed. I hope had been removed, but it's me in the old crew standing their naked, except for that. Papers that we're all wearing Cameramen are holding their cameras, the sound guys holding his gear worlds standing their and our diapers, so I sent that photo to chalk and chuck. What did you do? I mean it is a first me I've ever made MIKE honestly, so we basically took the rod sterling mean, and we put it on this photo of me and a diaper and again I started my coffee, but I wanted to post something because I too busy days I just kind of put it up there in an hour later, my god. This thing has been light is the Good NEWS. It's been light, two hundred and sixty thousand times. That's and its generated. Tens of thousands of comments, and it's been shared. Eighty thousand times would mean lot right. It's gone around the world,

So while the overwhelming majority of people saw the humor and I think tat my meaning from the meme alot of people were upset, couple thousand, maybe. on unsubscribe very disappointed, my grow. How could you let them with respect Michael? is tat, not offend anybody and I'm not trying to drive people offer the page and I just say briefly that this podcast is going to be dedicated to discussing the fall out of this? tell you. My guest is in a moment: you're gonna love him, but let me first say people I thought I was comparing masks to diapers was sort of, although frankly, I think, diapers or a lot better, it doing their job and mask Sars. At doing there is especially the cloth variety right. I mean everybody's out there, which doktor, when literally just said, cloth

ask your little more than facial decorations. The cdc doesn't disagree, it's out there. It's happening. The point wasn't to compare masked diapers, nor was it to compare covered with pooping your pants. The point was to simply talk about our relationship. with risk and what will do not consequences. I get that the count, quinces of getting alma kroner different than the consequences of pooping. Your pants one might put you in the hospital, kill, The other will cause modification and embarrassment. It's not about comparing those two things: it's about comparing the odds of an fortunate thing happening and the incredible unlikelihood of an unfortunate thing happening and the fact that, get used to living with all kinds of risk all of the time and we're just not used to living with this risk yet, and it doesn't make us bad and it doesn't make us shameful it just makes us human

used to the risk of getting in our cars and driving, and we know that forty thousand people will die every year as a result of doing that. And yet we ve determine that. That's a price that we pay for the free to come and go as we want on highways its baked in the risk. If this is not yet baked, and that's all- I was trying to And so I set it in a meme before coffee and now I'm not going to go on the apology tour, I don't have I've been you apologize for, but I I do think chuck that this is all your foot I knew you were hit. I was only following orders creates little german producer well to shed a little bit more light on this, perhaps and maybe expand a conversation that I think be useful around the notion of safety third, which, by the way, thank you folks, their thousand or so masks were sold? Yesterday, we ve raised all kinds of money for our next work ethic Scott.

sure programme by selling safety. Third masks which, by the way, begins February. Twenty third, twenty twenty that right. If you want to apply for work either Scholarship Micro works. Dot Org, starting late in February, will be flogging that ad nauseam in the coming weeks, but for now I want to be. Ring a guy on the podcast who I met years ago during shark, weak his name is Jeremiah Sullivan. He is the Aquatic Indiana Jones he's been there. Stud he's done that he created the first steel mesh shark suit which boy you wanna talk about, diapers for your whole body that that's what this is. You want to protect yourself from sharks. This is a body diaper or body mask if you will hear but in the safety businesses entire life. However,

He is the least risk averse person. I've ever met, he's created textiles and bricks that are being used in the government with first responders with Navy seals. He has a brilliant ma and he's a scientist he's an artist and he's a lunatic. I love it. I haven't checked in with him in a while. We're gonna have a conversation with him forthwith and I dont want overstated chuck, but it's gonna be great. Are you ready, I'm super ready. Men are well, here's a little thing I like to call the guitar sting followed by an on scripted hour or so with my friend Jeremy, the man you're about to see entering the frame and mere moments is a legend. I don't want overstated and I dont think I have but he's my old friend. Oh, my

he's gonna say, Jeremiah Sullivan, but its Jeremiah Johnson. Look at that beard. Wholly crap and I started earnest thing this morning about ten o clock Joe extraction older rough, but I appreciate your complex. told you look like your mug, the old man and the sea, and stole his face. Well, partly true, no absolutely and obey I got it What happened, but it it with this goofy connection. Chuck tell me if you think I'm wrong, but the testosterone, the man who does what all just oozes through the fiber optics with this guy come straight the camera yeah, what's up with a dog who's, got the dogs at you germ, I don't want it Ali promise me you would keep away here during the time we did our cats social take away now. Holly lie Hollywood where in the face and lied, how are you Well, I'm good management, awhile right. As you know, we ve got him with a lot of folks cynical, in time a lot of ways I called

earlier every week now we're just like spinning the wheel of people. We know thinking who would be a great guest on the podcast, Obviously, safety has been headline news sent out its whole, my asthma unfolded, but so too has risk in our relationship with risk and, as you know, I think we had a great conversation back in two thousand six or seven the first time we met just about the fact that manatee were so much of it anyway, is defined by our relationship to risk and you are the Aquatic Indiana Jones, one of them, these risk averse people, I've ever met, who never them makes his living making safety equipment. I just thought perhaps I could pick your rain and talk about, among other things, the current at last. I am experiencing for standing naked with my crew wearing diapers and a meme currently circulating the inner webs,

pretty much. Every morning that I find myself some out of farmers about me. Art stand and there, in my depends what the day is gonna go, so I understand how you feel. Isn't it funny that depends has literally become. Maybe the word of the ages, there's so much uncertainty. I can't cover a more defining term than uncertainty, which of course suggested way of saying that depends every it seems, depends on so many things and none of those things are in our control would say age wisdom. Might you have to help us mere mortals? Keep some perspective. Man julia I couldn't be. I think it's a lot of its cultural. You know, particularly with our culture, because, as you know it your kids. When I was a kid you're only about what a half my just post when I was a kid there are all kinds of things we got away with that weren't, a big drama

and you see a meme- is and thinks about this. All the time now how terrified everybody is virtually every thing. In some cases, those things are rational in their programmes and sometimes are not, in my view, a lot. these things are part of the capitalist approach to finding a way. The profit of a whatever weaken, conjure up in red or otherwise just the american way. I guess I'm not a big fan of that. I'm not a big fan of living in fear For that reason, I do what I do and I try to find ways to help people survive and difficult or challenging, formerly threatening circumstances for situations. do you know what started when the ocean, with my marine biology background and those extended many many places since you when I first met where we can sort of control that human issue about TAT S. How quickly we agree to be concerned are fearful about things

my old things about quickly finding solutions so that we can move beyond those fear things course that interferes with somebody's business. Perhaps, but that's not my concern like attorneys people being able to do what they need to do, what they want to do and to do it as safely as possible. Short all right. I think there may be before we dive to deep as it were and solve the problems of the world. We just Establish your bona benefit is a bit more you, among other things, created a steel mesh suit that allows dive is to interact with sharks and recreations. Too recreational diving to occur, maybe in a safer way the application and, though, from that have gone in so many different erections I'll. Let you spell it out for me because I'm sorry, I can't keep up with you, but last I read you basically developed a lightweight invisible, Kevlar bullet proof thing that would, let me live forever was that it appears all forms, a village. Where do I sign nobody?

the thing to worry about anymore everything's, fine, whose that's true the whole process of extending survivability proof getting reducing or eliminating injuries, that of unfortunate, very common in certain work, environment or lifestyles of military duty. That kind of thing in action, sports in industrial safety in all natural, Suddenly? I started getting calls from all sorts of sundry people that had issue some kind of an issue of a danger, a threat of physical harm to either participants from their group or other individuals. Perhaps that might be exposed to these threats and may cause we're forum wide everything from NASA looking for ways to protect you tyres on their Mars landers things that nature to the protective garments in the textiles and I've been building for the deities special operations. Communities thinks that nature now. It's also tremendous

so interested the industrial safety markets because they got all the the same people letter stirring up these needs for safety, insurance or some other form of business or trying to knock little problems doubt as they come up, and so baby you're trying to make hazardous situations less hazardous. Not necessarily safe, because I don't even know that you can. I mean how do you talk about safety, to a Navy seal, who I know You ve been working with providing these kinds of technologies and practical, yet tactical way did even in terms of what safe or are they just think in terms of what's less deadly? You know you Surprised- and these guys are very expensive to make. You not cost a few million bucks to make turn one of these guys out as an operator. And the rules and regulations they have for their safety would surprise you, but the

the work is so dangerous that had its own level, the accepted from that perspective. They know what to do game in many many many of the things they do, art in one way or another, related to how some of us older folks, like us, lived our youth? We were out we'll climate fallen out of things getting caught up and crashing. you're doing all those things for years, but that has become apparently a very profitable sort of a sector forms part of our economy, so what you said just now is exactly what Chuck said to me earlier. We were talking about when we were kids writing a bike right. I mean those kids jog. Did you see wearing a helmet when you were eleven twelve years old Zactly, zero right, it just didn't I guess what I was trying to get out of. There seems to be. It is true. The tendency towards ever He's dangerous in everything needs somebody to either. So you know George Policy or something to make sure it doesn't happen whatever it wasn't could be.

in the case of the Navy, guys becomes with its own inherent risks. Obviously these guys sign on. You know terminally if that comes to be the final outcome for them, Europe, and there are quite happy and fortunately willing to do. But there are many many ways that we have been able to augment and enhance the safety of these guys. For example, some of you It's work that out doing for those guys some of the seals. Where am I a shop here in you, go on had changed some of the things that I was developing for the new shark resistant wetsuit concept. Been doing around with since the early two thousands and I've been testing and having some? pretty significant success coming up with non matter. Like solutions for even things like the sharks and a great white knowledge or thing There were so many derivatives of this kind of work that nice guy saw what I was doing with otherwise lethal circumstances. They figured that will ship. Maybe this guy can help us out. We have similar explore

sharp things dangerous places in hospital environments and things of that nature. So I did and a man wants that gate open it just kept gone and as a result of the things that I built for people all across the special operations community and continue to do that with a lot of latest us that I've been working on. What are you doing right now that you're allowed to talk about that your most bullish on? Well, you know I had a tremendous amount of success with the earlier textile laminate or Composite Norman. Alex solutions that I was coming up with. And it s been successful that stuff, but it was straight out the gate. Everything was expensive when a new advanced fibre or some new would do becomes available somehow generates more expensive for well before the economy comes down, becomes more accessible. Well, that was the case with these textiles as well, because some of these fibers were so rare. So you know

he can so special that so expensive that everything I was doing was costly, because I wasn't concerned about the cost I was concerned about solving the problem for somebody and what was the brow, exactly that you trying to solve with stuff but could be ended, it could be. A laceration penetration could be of exposure to flame or heat, Getting along their natures, we ve got a lot of thermal activity in protecting against heat or allowing it and called it things that nature. So beyond the more kinetic type things the fragmentation, indication of military law, horsemen that is flying around on too many occasions for them and very, very dangerous, the illustration from climbing up an oil rig out no Persian Gulf someplace, something like this. There are all kinds of ways these guys get hurt sliced up cut up because the time knowledge is that they had we're centrally the same as they had a war war to be a man

there was a huge sucking vacuum of interests in the concept of improving and making multi functional protective solutions that might have started in some obscure place with a little niche, but it found its home in a much wider application which is need of the classic american Success story. I suppose, if you why is it so damn hard to get the stuff to market? I mean we talk be ten years ago, You showed me something you id invented. It was a piece of fabric and you did a couple of things. You put a flame on it like a hot, hot flame. Chuck, it didn't do anything. Then he blue smoke, throw it right in proving that this thing was completely breathable right. like as much cotton and then he stretched it and he had like to buy for that. Are you driven like it? Hence penny nail through rights, and this thing is up like a spike like a punch stick and he stretches the fabric puts it on

tip the nail and leans into it like puts his weight on it, and it won't cut through so ten years ago. I know for a fact that you had developed a piece of fabric that was breathable fireproof and seemingly impenetrable and for the life of me, I dont know why our cops and our first responders and our Navy seals in all our men and women in uniform, aren't wrapped in this stuff from stem the stern. Please explain! Well, smart ones, our appeal to MAR, but me commercialization of technologies, in a sense That is so heavy like the deal deed, industrial, military side. It There are a lot of american businesses that way things the way they are because that's their gravy train, when it comes to something new and disruptive, particularly disruptive, as has been the case with a lot of them.

I've done it. I mean, starting even with the interacting, with sharks safely, as opposed to the high risk of being bitten, particularly in feeding or in those kinds of environment. You know it, it gets. It became a threat. sidebar chuck why you shaking your head? casualness with which he describes this. Yet there's that I've been I've seen. Video and people who are listening to this have to go to his website, which is Jeremy, Sullivan, DOT, com or shark armor dot com and look at some the video that's their of like a tiger shark. That is probably ten feet, long I don't know how many hundred of pounds and coming straight out. You and you just casually She knows with your hand, and he pushes you away that all happens like a dance and, unlike that's a big old shark, come in at you. This is the growing chuck about Jeremiah he will bury between parentheses

that, would you same person would, in forty four print Helvetica right, the day we met He handed me- and this is relevant. Because I've signed. Maybe three do releases in my life. And they ve all in some way shape or form put the onus of responsibility on me. Some of them take great pains two sugar coated right, some some are so obtuse an oblique you have to go the two, your lawyer, to translate Jeremy is, on the other hand, oughta be framed, hanging on a wall somewhere because it basically says I blank understand that I am about to engage in a serious and behaviors best not enjoy, aged in of being bitten are nearly a hundred percent. The odds, dying, are extraordinarily high, the odds going wrong are so written

the stars that by signing this. You simply admit to knowing that somewhere between bad luck and death, wish Where do you live a go ahead site? et. I dare you I mean it was only time I actually felt like there was some truth, Disclaimer legal unbundling has just said the point a little clearer. There is vital footage of you, Jeremiah standing on the bottom of the ocean somewhere. Holding the giant hunk of raw fish leading the shark towards you and then just as the shark opens his mouth to get said fish you offer. or forearm instead, and he bites. Your forearm and shakes you like a rag doll- and I say to myself this guy ain't right well a crimson truth that you know opinions per who pursue her but the problem,

we were seeing shoulder- is the one that I just have replaced with a new socket over four months ago. There is a downside: occasionally you could get wear and tear action there. At the moment, people should try and conjure up their minds. I was during shark week. I think it was two thousand six or seven. I think the job to weld a shark suit and build a one. He invented the. And so I'm down their working with the adventure of the shark suit, and then we get done then it's like. Well, let's go testa like. Why would you do that goes? Well, you jump in the water. Let sharks budget, I think he's getting he's not getting right, so early hours later, there's a chump slick There's blood in the water. The sharks are everywhere, Jeremiah and Iron dressed up like I've and how in Lancelot We diving and, of course, we get bitten, but feet down we're kneeling on the bottom and there's a moment Jeremiah and you can consult the video for this, and this is actually the forward to a book. I can't get around a finishing

But there was a moment when I looked over and a shark you buy the elbow left, elbow notice, gotcha right shoulder. One am got you from behind around your hamstring and two chucks point. They are truly shaking you like a tug toy. You go up I'd down, there's some blood in the water from the charm, but who knows it could be yours could be mine could be I dont know and I saw the tail of a reef shark whip around and knock the regulator and the mask off your face. Chuck them and is upside down sixty feet below the surface. The bottom of the boat is just too distant little smear on the surface bubbles, coming out of his mouth. The only thing- I can hear the sound of my own screams. I ever front row see to the end of this man's life, who I just met, and still the midst of that awful that's. All I could think was,

a broader, not himself in me to produce a stupid, does somebody might know. I've been running a foundation for the last fourteen years that tries to put people up with jobs in the skilled trades. and I just have to say from that perspective- I have never seen it like this before everyone I'm talking to right now, who owns a business, is struggling to recruit and not just the skilled trades. If you wanna business, you know what I'm talking about, and you know how hard it is to recruit. And I hope, you'll let my friends is improved, help out. If you're in that situation, it couldn't be simpler. You're gonna do recruiter, dotcom, slash row, you pay the job for free and then watch what happens, Krueger will find and match the right candidates up with your job. Then they product- jubilee present these candidates to you.

Boy? You review the recommended candidates and then- and this is the important part there and you personally invite your top choices to apply for you job, This encourages them to apply faster, zip, recruiters technology is sell, effective. Four out of five employers who, post on super cruder, dotcom, slash row, get acquired the candidate within the very first day. You can try for free at this exclusive web address zip recruited come slash row? That's zip, recruiter, dotcom, slow r, o w e they really are the smartest whether higher we prefer should it got nor that out of the way at the top but point. Is you spend your life, in situations that are slightly to the right of ill advised by ETA, in major living, creating materials that allow you to survive and fight and other day and clearly

Surely they work you're on the podcast today because I really am genuinely curious as to why there are so many barriers to getting all of these tactical innovations into a practical environment and also because I need to understand why I've gotten so much trouble for standing around in a diaper trying to make a point about our countries relationship with risk. Those barriers and why it's not out there more. I can tell you this is not done several times now. I put all my blood bone and breath into developing things like this. I get it done. build up. We take it to the point commercialization and then you realize old man. We need some professional business people involved here, and there besides God. As you know, I do things tangibly. I like my hands on and I like to express them a note. What I'm talking about try at every opportunity to avoid ever speaking on it,

thing. That is not a direct experience of mine, but I can valid eight. We stay in your line, the age I can't bear all the nonsense, that's everywhere now, I assume that other people function in the same way. I do because enforcement self employed the boots trapper. I assume that most people, like me, he wants they grasp something are gonna, be able to absorb develop around that thing. Pick it up and run with it, because it's not that far from it, Obviously, it's like a no brainer. You shoot it things like ok, what's going on, but in fact that's I've made a mistake twice. Tonight is and some people on a business side. I run off a team I developed. These things turn him into prototypes. I test them, do all that, but the challenge that I've had is finding the right people who are commensurate with the opportunity at this level too. Then commercial

because it's a battle. I may tell you it's a whole other game to get things in a commercial production after you solve the problem, because a lot of people who don't want that to happen there in white. With the way things are they want so much gonna completely hook, stably, the threat level, that's Mason! we did. We re, establish the or seventy threshold for protective textiles laminate composite globally. he's gonna happen were very, very close right now. I finally think I figured out business thing got rid of all the riffraff and clean up that process and string I did so much that I think we're getting it right. Finally, and got some stray significant projects going on at the moment. Not just what do you do things on a global level but also with other industries, you know the mental health industries you know in the country and certainly the action sports and a hockey in us all those countries things

How do you your products, supplied a mental health, german well and many years ago. At the first call from somebody thing, it was like the National Institute of Mental Health, the providers of something here in the United States. They had some patients who had the horrible affliction? They were always true in a non on themselves and trying to doing self damage your number one? If what I was working on since it worked with these other creatures, it would work against these for humans and had these various kinds well, it turns out there a lot of those kinds of mental afflictions with biting in so far and all that Europe think so These people call me up it's a hey. We need something for our patients, We need something for their providers, because when the actually happen at these people, Ralph Kilter. We need to be able to protect everybody and that's our goal. Nothing out there does that what I have been developing for them. Does show it'll be another one of those jobs. to see how easily we can integrate this m commercially so that its really available on a high commercial level

It seems like it would be very few people just snap at it and it would be done, but it's not as simple as it appears because of the competing factions of what Some in this country believe the way businesses should be run and who should profit from them. I suppose key keep on all who profit. Copyright it so exciting. On the one hand, to think about the progress that could be made if we just got out of our own way and it so maddening on the other hand to think about What other areas I may look, still in the midst of this pandemic, we're still looking it therapeutics with a weird mix. It's the same mix, I'm very optimistic, that we're gonna find something great, but am also troubled by the that there might already be something great, that's out there that simply doesn't come with

many hundreds of billions of dollars, that's going to accompany the introduction or the discovery of something novel or knew you could fill a book with what I dont know about I ever met in, but I've read the stuff on Goober Pradesh. I've read about three hundred million people who are now covered free, and I now that that drug costs, not a penny, a pill, just though I don't think that's it foil had conspiracy disable wait a second. If there is no money in a cure, How excited is the world going to be about exploring that particular avenue? You seem to be facing something similar in a way we agree with you. An unfortunate have come to believe that it. Just the dark side of capitalism? All great societies and cultures that get too big for their britches, eventually implode

think that it's probably some of these very same issues of processes that we're experiencing now our party, That downward slide? Unless people pull together and as you say, get out of their own way so that we can solve some of these things there are many many different ways that damn things could be a lot simpler, but as a massive? massive, particularly in recent years, a shift to profit. First, you know solutions to forget solutions coming right now, even with the covert business, we have Fortunately, we got the big eyes do on their thing, the big organization to do on their thing, and you got the smaller people do under thing and where the answer. One side two demonize or both sides demonized by the other. They can it well. We don't like your way

it's the same thing at some body not being happy with the situation, whether it's an existing industry that profits from selling unsafe products to the deal d, the police room ever or medical field, or virtually. Where else you shit the business wars between these taxi companies now version the lives and all these things are better Manderson, it seems to me that our capitals are american way. Our capitalist system wasn't so antagonistic. I guess before to improvement. You know to manage like aren't. We spoke to me working together and Poland towards the same goal, make an hour country stronger in every possible way, but now we ve got spare interest. You don't seem to want to see things that way. They think competition. almost always good and healthy as long as it's fair, and everybody singing from the same hymn book in play same game cards right now. It has to be fair,

I still wonder if part of what's happening in your industry and throughout this pandemic, and really in every industry is a natural response to what happens when safety becomes artificially elevated to apply. Right, where nothing matters more, and so it's a difficult thing to articulate and every time I try? I wind up putting my foot in it and I picked somebody off all. I'm really tried to articulate like that. Last mean that chuck and we're talking about before there was an attempt to compare masks with died. How's. It wasn't even an attempt to compare covered with pooping your pants. It was an attempt to say look. life only works when you get used to assuming risk, how much risk well

That varies on the activity. Obviously, but we know for a fact the driving is going to result in forty thousand fatality is this year, and yet we drive. Is it because we're responsible or is it because we've simply gotten used to the bar used to the risk nobody's gonna, where a diaper twenty for seven, if the odds of pooping our pants, are roughly zero right and interesting, even though this eggs are much much higher. I get that I get that we seem to struggling with the notion of whether or not its wise to spend the rest of our lives covering our faces. If the percentage of reach involved in doing it is infinitesimal. So I'm just genuinely fascinated by histories and individuals as they struggle to come to terms with the reality living in a society that continues

elevate safety, above all things at insurance, business man when large industries in the country. I just had the shoulder place, as I mentioned a couple of months ago on, I was going through. All of that ensure a kind of stuff to figure out all works, and, oh, my god, it's just an illness of yours. You find it might be. Sixty eight next birthday, good grief about you are pulled together, congrats as well. again, opinions vary, but I did have worn out. Parts of it are ground down half an inch bone on this right shoulder, including, garlic, so you did our snarks. Did we just get Do you know domain you get used to that risk that assumption that thing. Our usually are it's not Things have become more dangerous across the board in summer. Is that they should have but things women have always been in

a change has been it. Somebody's figured out a way and convinced love people that we should be paid in order to protect you from these things that you have always survived and lived through again, the dark side, capitalism. You know it's just run amok. It's like any society or culture that gets do big. Brutes riches eventually just disappeared and implode. it appears that there are those among us. Not all but some among us that, ok with that because they got a sort of a short narrow vision in Bavaria, small interested, not look at the bigger picture. Is it like an unearned morals superiority going on we're talking before Our youth, when nobody wore a helmet when they wrote a bike, I'm not bemoaning that I'm not saying that it's a good idea for kids today not to wear helmets

I'm just saying: isn't it interesting when somebody sees a kid without a helmet, how they'll clutch their pearls and how bill gasp how something that was completely common. Barely on generation ago is now looked at as not just bad but the height of irresponsibility. How did we get to that place and where do we go after that? You know I'm worthy of members, surprised by it, as you and everyone else who I think has just in our country think it's just comes down to profit motive. I swear seeing the dark side of that in the past ten years or so, but at the same time, man, it's or not, to agree

when you see no reason for this to occur, yet it does, and it happens over known and somebody touch the skies blue when it's raining etc. Just some weird thing that's going on, particularly in our country, because I don't see this and allow the other place. People are living their lives, go about their business, do what they can to improve penal there. don't ever where they possibly can. But here, as things get more crowded, does our resources get more contracted as the finite access to things we boys assumed would be ours for the picking forever, people are getting strange and other getting greedier and are getting scared and frightened at somebody else's. You know got some on above above them going gonna take over their lives or whatever and adjust its utter madness, and unfortunately it just seems to be The only place I see this to this extent as in the business climate,

usually weathers significant upside or significant revenues? Above that's just great. You know, which is of course, what the deadly sins progress reasons. Maybe I'm pointing out the screamingly obvious, but since you brought it up, fear things were afraid of. We get to choose, we get to choose this things were afraid of? You have spent decades doing something that would petrify the apple, gee homo sapiens, and you do those things on purpose and you do a day today and I've done them with you and for a while there. I really couldn't decide if you were missing assent. Apps were just apart your brain that would tell a normal person. Hey. Maybe don't do that like that guy who climbed what was it El Capitan Alex huddled? Was it or have them there's something missing in his brain. That says: ok, you don't To be scared of this, when everybody else would you litter

swim with sharks and yet the only sure that really bit you the only ones. Left a mark where the one on two legs: the land sharks letter. I yes, so, isn't there Crazy. The video of your life is that of an aquatic superhero the reality of trying to launch this business you're in it just like the rest of us, do there are their companies out there right now that are working to profit of what they thought was. My tech learn to be very observant. Let's say, as I go through these kind of business maneuvers these days- and I am generally much more careful now- I dont- expose allowed the good stuff I'll show some of the old tack and Joe undeserved people and son of a gun. If they don't take that run up. And try to turn into a business, and sometimes they do they'll. Never last, of course, no fall apart and go down, but people trying to profit

The concepts and concepts are far more important to me than the details of the solution, if another obviously equally important, otherwise they would have already been figured out by somebody were the concepts really worthy innovation and where the growth from our understanding, an exponential capabilities of surviving dangerous situations. I've seen it happen several times on thinking to myself, man in other two kinds of people, those that create and share those that taken destroy and that become more and more clear to me through the years some business person said somewhere along the line of thinking should manage you're, absolutely correct, because our guy was banned. Attention. The guy's, a general you're willing to steal something or try to play that game, claim your taxes, there's. No, what sort of nonsense easily unwrapped the Eureka, not the brightest the Chinese Brianna Role or they just part of it. By way of thinking that I just simply can't relate to, and I work like a former

they every day and try to create good things gotta eat. If I don't, I don't happen to share it with whomever, but I don't like it posed in the process. I've learned slowly slowly, slowly out two up. We those characters out before they ever get in the door, but it took me while I've done that twice now girlish wealth, most of the big lessons you know where the lessons we just keep learning over and over again, unfortunately, but most important ones You said something before do that I want to refund you mention in the context of innovation and d men and risk taking? You also the word art my impression any ways that a big part of who you are is rooted. in artistry, you have, the mindset of an artist. You have the artist way, but you also just This weird combination of daring dough.

Risk taking entrepreneurship and so forth, but talk to me about art I mean I know: you're photography speaks for self, but just the way that you approach solving a problem by an operating some kind of artistic sensibility to the solution. Yeah. I think sure the risky, the wild eyed side of idiocy, that's just a result. Minutes really a part of the process of validating those things that we create through our art your art, science, art and science- is how I kind of describe my personal approach of things, and I think that the critical window really because You got all this money and all these become he's out there very smart people educated you got all the white coats and the world of science guy sit in a lab someplace trying to fix up enough and then some used to be guy from California Watchin and just blows away everything they vanished.

accomplish the blink of an eye. You know they don't quite get it, but if you stepped back a little bit and think about that, how engineers in particular or hyper focus, I wasn't it get an engineer. I was educated marine biologist with they behavioral emphasis mean The human shark interaction when you see people it focused hard in- and this is certainly the case with the deity and all that you get all these guys in there, really really good at what they know, but they're not getting outside what they know to be creative or innovative. Were engineering new concepts because each simply don't see them. It's like asking someone to describe the color blue when they catch car rental high. They do that big, simply So in my case, I ve always felt roused absolutely an utterly bull asked by someone somewhere to

this ability to see things from different perspectives and remain justa known once, but entirely different perspectives from an artistic one and a scientific one. I do not necessarily always mesh together, know what they are two sides of the same coin, though right. Yes, yes, yes, in my case, that is every thing. Why can't all these things being If we think back to Galileo in all these guys think those guys moors artist and something else I mean they do things for the charts right, everybody, what Michael everybody, whether they are actually painting or Greece Some other form of relieved spectacular, knew something technology or understanding or insider understanding of the solar system I mean, you think you're, absolutely extraordinary! Have you ever seen the sketches of divine cheese, first helicopter, I'm sure I have,

on stage that to me is maybe the greatest example of art and science coming together to conceive of a thing that would be created hundreds of years later to draw it in the or that it would actually come to exist and to draw it with such precision and such beauty I get it. I love it and I'm asking, and I want you to keep going just seen over I'm coming from when we took the arts out of the industrial arts. We just left the industry and while we turned out in a vote tech we just had a bad hyphen determine then we turn it in a shop and that, of course, it was easy to remove from high schools altogether, but we started by taking the art out of it. I just wonder many failures. You have seen how many eight notions, just kind of crap the bed, because they forgot to put the art in it I would say that many, many highly commercialized and profitable.

to tease andor items out there are probably largely devoid of anything of it That's right so easy to make better ones at this stage, you know. I was always somebody making it a better this. That I reckon it There are probably examples of how they left out the sole full part of those developments mean in the art side. Almost anywhere you look, I dont get it my had not in that world. You know the main minus I see something it's another opportunity to do something make something better protect somebody from this that enough, it turns into a business great find some people. Let them want to run it. Let him do it and boom one of the next thing you make it sound easy as an entrepreneur I thought I was really surprising entrepreneur and an inventor. What are you, I reckon, is more important: innovation or imitation innovation.

By a long shot. The imitators, your Dinah doesn't they're everywhere you be shot you nor will. Actually you wouldn't be shop, would allow. It would be shocked better that the that there are many many many people that function. That way when I think about that as a creative guy, particular after this past ten years of dealing with so much nonsense. You know you wonder how on earth, if you're, not a creative person, how on earth do survive, you can grow anything. You can build anything. You don't know how to design something you can engineer things. You, dear just short of helpless your along for the ride. You become a working drone within the system, particularly here in our country, and that's what cuff It's me when I see people that are actually doing creating getting abused by the non creatives, because

that's the only angle they ve got. That's why people like myself on the art science side, the creative set us why we're costly in conflict with the money side of business, because money, sigh guys have only money and too many of them are still caught up in the chase. A more of that, I don't you rat tale about that kind of stuff. You know I care about good innovation development, making the world better. place a safer place, you're doing something good, not just acquiring shackles, you, no more more money or more. This more that that's the real can under that. I have you know you ve got to create hymns you're, making it possible that providing the food, the growing everything there doing all these things and then those that simply profit off of all the creative work. If you sit back and look at the american way, this good for quite a while, and it continues Clever, the shrewd folks within the system learn waged a game all that and, of course, we see examples of this every day and our contemporary society

and you can see what happens in a imitative and derivative world. You could see it in my industry. Certainly you be hard pressed. to find a news programme that doesn't look like every other news programme or a pop song today, the does, sound like every other pop song and its because all imitating each other. But ask you to ruminate too, not just the whole system visa be emitted mission and innovation, but on the individual I remember standing with you and your very best, mad scientist lab down there wherever we were welding, that shark suit together and people and understand chuck. This thing is thousands of little tiny steel rings, but for him thousand four hundred thousand little steel rings that they all have to be welded together, which is little tiny, tee well financed by hand right, it's not a soul.

I d assembly as I am that we can make the bulk material we can make mechanically Everything still has to be done, requiring by ring to turn into a garment this. this is why I am asking when you create something that innovative. You start with a prototype and the innovation gets all of the sex appeal and all the glamour as it should it's the thing, but now what how many do you want to sell now? The should becomes. I think how Facile are you at attaining you're innovation right. It always interested in that like up here in Silicon Valley, not far from where I'm sitting every Company, I know, wants to brand themselves as the great innovators, but the ones succeeded, were equally good at duplicating They did this thing right, our phones, my god, it's a hell of a prototype, but what good does one do you they had to make billions

So I just wonder for you, when the current you that man, the shark suit, is pretty cool, but it's got four hundred thousand individual pieces in it, and I gotta figure out a way to make them and only five. Will it be blunt right that this is not a great model, Jeremiah well again? That's where it all comes down to interest of the artist chuckle. When I call myself an artist because I'm. The hearty draw straight line. At the same time, innovating. These kinds of solutions minutes everything. If you look at some of the big voters guys actually innovated. Something did something really significant and it's getting hard to tell who those actual people are sometimes now in a bigger company could be the people any other. A name that suit you will try to claim. That is his innovation. That's all bs, that's not so the innovators are the ones who are doing he's out.

you're. Making a financial decision about what's gonna make a higher profits, so I respect the people and actually do the work, not ones that talk about it or claim it worthy man right but getting building that first thing in solving that problem is all that's ever been my focus and as a marine biologist back in that was, human shark interaction was a very particular and immediate, interesting, mine, what's goin on actually for about forty five years shockingly. It's amazing think that at the same time, it was instrumental in development of a global chart. Guiding industry would have been up at times to about a billion dollars a year, It's been a massive value in the education and awareness programmes for people to understand more about sharks, where not all living in abject fear of the unknown, arrogant and people all over the planet. Now up playing around chart the only time any charge you two courses on those off days when things don't go,

reckless. Probably understated was not part of my life losing this arm was really when his nature on. We have to accept just like when we were kids. Look, I'm a reddish by down that Hillis faster again and I may come on we'll in large part the Neil just comes with a territory in, Of course. Imagine the charge people lavender, conversely, there. I should be pop another edgeler smoke from another ears, because he made see things away. We do they see them as dollars from students, but have nothing you want anything else chuck, you have the look on you. face of a man whose dine ask a question. Thank you Suffice it. I just want to back up a little bit because you said before Jeremiah that use all shucks your way about being an artist and I would say that that is a giant understatement as well, because- I've seen your photographic work and you ve been printed

photos have been printed in some of the biggest magazines in the country right. One of our biggest, I would say, is national geographic. If you think I'm didn't go to were asked each are be a the numeral, eight shark bait, very clever on Instagram and you can see a hot and also on your website, of course, from the artistic I guess it's gonna personal thing, you just how we the world, you know I've been very fortunate to be up in nature of the world. I wasn't very, very fortunate to work and the very beginning of the Eco tourism adventure travel business. Shall we right there runnin around more ports the world before anybody else had access to them, and that was an extraordinary opportunity for young guy. I've started that, but twenty years older so long that was a bit giving for me that you would have seen some of those images looking through those websites. But to me it's you know without art. What are we were? Nothing we're like a warehouse foolish

I've been called worse. I've been looking for a title for this episode. I think the warehouse full of shit with german congratulations rather does your ship just came in her report. really that's where a lot of time Resources are spent. Imagine if the guy's rather actually creating at doing really good up we're back by some putty that shit, that interest instead of getting it off the road, and turning it into a financial advantage of some kind there's nothing wrong with that. Believe I love spending money. I could do things I do find it even have put it a big data how I subsidized early development of all the shark suits in all these other projects. It. I was doing a tower educated myself spend time in my art life, which was not a bad way to go. Starting with the natural history imagery for life and geographic and

all that New Yorker of all publications from the old age and in shifting, into a commercial work in a fashion. I did fashion four years, which is a lot of fun and ultimately to celebrity images and but most of the intellectuals, Nothin Gb Hollywood owes more of the young scientists that boroughs and people like this agenda. The deep October's while he's gonna function that that was, I think, instrumental and how I develop my orientation, but my modus operandi. Solving these are the kinds of problems because, as an artist you're always doing something, as a scientist you're always try figure something out if you're trying to solve thanks bigger things out, that's a whole lot different, making more money and just focusing on that being the gold doing some of the nautilus work that you don't have any interest or bring any value to you. Just a drone would

a bearing witness. What about this simple business of bearing witness being the audience watching a thing? I'm listening to talk about this. and I'm guessing you photographed David Attenborough were richer, which one was no action was not Bourbon if you're doin, what wretched we were talking about leaky the other day I was online books for young boy back then had the chance to meet up with Richard Leaky in EAST Africa. When I was down there, one point, nothing in the sixties and he soon rich who'd on He passed away a couple days ago, but as a witness to some of these things, you don't access that I had in the places that I was going out. The world man. I was working next arm in arm with the best China photographers the natural asleep. While I painters Peter Schuyler, while I Foundation Roger repeaters the artist from Audubon society. You in all these kind of characters and explores regional folks, it I was out there using around, was so had the benefit.

Really having some impressionable years, an exposure of these epic, magnificent people who have actually accomplished so much in their lives in a different kind of way. and clearly they epigenetic said that are probably what helped to sort of guide my path into the rather peculiar way that I go about this. And what would they make of shark week? What do you mean of shark week out, it must not be a lot of fun We ve had a ball you and at met for quite a few, here's, a team begone pretty good. Arguably the. Discover channel the whole shark. We think started around. success. The welcoming them said I was driven back any earlier age. People realize tv world people like to watch these kinds of Jos, just gonna Marta Perkins Sharks of here well founded and I watched from the brush about. I was five because it was way back when I backed, what movie island you're off Mexico a couple of months ago,

we realise that the first time I've been an out of the past twenty years. Fifty years it's been a become, maybe the premier, great white shark, viewing location, the world, its religious off the charts and up and by an issue which are you sure it's hard to do any better than you get down here. Just off of our coastal and you go see. I lost my train of thought, This has happened and you a lot don't to worry about this term. Forget my Adrian, We are talking about wild kingdom, time on the wild kingdom and you realize something recently just to get back to them. your story. When I was recently down there we're trying to figure out when I was first what Lubyanka forty years ago, forty years ago when it was shocking because we're all about older guys, you know we're like wholly crap man, where this time go, I'm a big fan of accurate, informed and relevant information. I don't care about

trauma, drama reality, tv and all that kind of silly stuff. That has become more a part of these kinds of things. You know some of the programmes and you know what I had a whole lot of fun. Doing some discover, chef, through the years and more recent times have shifted over National geographic because it made promises about trying to get back to a more academic oriented, accurate content with Shelly stuff, without naked and afraid at its heart no, because there are competing that network people are struggling in their own way under all competing against each other knowledge or think so. I know it's tough for them, but in my view, I believe that if you give people the very best content- and I mean Aesthetically- Information- really conceptually. You dont eliminate anybody from your viewing audience if you just show the jury, Springer angle of things you generally lose.

a significant part of your audience. You may have quite a few that are still entertained, but that's not necessary. When the tour irrelevant to your work anyway. Yes, oh I'm, just a bit labour and doing things in a more authentic are sincere way. I don't like to see nature wildlife or important environmental things or cultures. A site is running else being used as a problem for some petty personal. Aggrandisement and all that kind of silliness, and you know a lot of the tv programs. These days are so I guess they're trying to make them personality driven because they're running out of storage or something I do it's a strange thing to me, but merely running runway, it's the iter, struggle, you have to the playground that you're in dirty jobs first and form was an entertainment show and if people weren't entertained didn't matter what my personal ideas and beliefs and thoughts were

didn't matter. If I have a larger agenda concerning work or anything like that, you must first entertain and you my friend, whether you like it or not. You understood that you took us on a ride on that boat in Stewards Cove, and that was one of the first occasions where people on a really huge level had a chance to see your invention,. save a life technically yours and mine, and you know what that's not small thing and ever bargain. You have to make whatever price you need to make the point of getting that moment into milk. Of living rooms. I still don't appreciate the impact of that because I don't understand it never know whose watching I still get, to this day about the segment we did in a lot of other segments to keep doing what you're doing keep putting the art out their keep push?

in the rock up the hill, don't let him get you down. Many years ago. My mother gave yellow sculpture of Sisyphus, for that were here, he's a big she realized early on this boat. Should a habit of road users elected it hard projects in the good. In fact, that absolutely correct you can you You know my partner Mary Solomon Right absolutely adore Mary gave me years ago a sum. Panting, not of Sisyphus, but Don Quixote, tilting at windmills I still have a ragged as I started. I go right over there. There's something so noble and attractive and interesting about the futility and a great. No. She and the unreachable star, did a segment you're gonna love it on dirty jobs, which is backed by the way that can't wait to see yet I just kind of slip out in their job? It's back Sunday.

Is it eight on discovering only on discovery, do a segment on crazy horse in South Dakota hand just twenty miles down the road from Rushmore? If that, but a completely different experience started fifty years ago, won't be completed for another forty or fifty years you talk about Sisyphus, meets Quixote, You talk about art. They are carving, a shockingly beautiful massage out of the living granite in South Dakota and he'll take. Your breath away. There is no invitation for that. There's only the one there's only the prototype and it's only gonna take a hundred years to finish you gotta love that What is the real thing, man imagine being the guy or one of those groups that wants to build that thing. It's already been done

got nothin also undermined. They can't figure nothing else out and they don't really have the skills to come up with something better. What a terrifying way to live that must be, then I think it was a beautiful anxious or what Mr Fernandes we get our children to target set backer injured, or whatever happens, to be your linen right: man, you're, livid, pure pure life, and building and developing things that have significance there relevant. You know, I think that no part of it issue. Everybody wants to have a rush to significant, though that's the goal that they feel they'd be able and successfully navigate without any significance, not you can it doesnt work like that. It only works for a few men. Jobs, social media, that way

Most people realise that our mountain internet, that another charlatan what's goin away, but then there moved on to something else, because that's just the way. A vast majority of our society apparently functions now, there's no dependence on the heart or the soul, which is something that we are trying to build and or present as another traveller here on. Where's curved role will look man if the fate of your travels involves pushing Iraq up a hill that you might as well figure out a way to like it, and if you're gonna spend your life tilting at windmills, you might as well make the windmill, your friend safer, I couldn't agree more. I've got a very early copy of Don Quixote here somewhere. That was accurate and spanish, and I can't member from wind, but I picked up of you to give us a gift to one of my latin French. It encouraged me to dig a thing out chief. I can remember my spanish threat rereading the first modern novel,

So what was the opposite novel? He didn't know what is the time, but it was the first novel that it was written prose. You know not hearse up until that point. All the great narratives were, the Iliad and so forth, and so on Cervantes when a different way and so did you last question. I want to go to land, the plain where we are. From the same runway where we took off fear you set up Well, actually, I didn't say it I'll say it is the fear.

Homo sapiens, have of sharks in any way, justified, sure yeah you're, not the tv ever shot the media version. Anyone any islander or tropical person that group and the environment of these creatures learns early. You don't mess around these animals doesn't mean that there are strong each web pages. You respect them who and what they are, the rest of it all. Well, I want it all created by us, but fear of the unknown, reserving a member until the fifties we're mostly an anti environment culture because it was considered dark, it was dark, are ever Satan, it was evil. Everything about nature was wrong so they had that basis for the fear I think in the earlier days and then the

Udo Corso should be people living in landlocked places. They wouldn't have any clue about things like sharks with the islanders. People that grew up around these things are partly a fear of the unknown, and the rest, I think was done by media, It was easy to do somewhere out back in the early days. I was always amazed also like you that people were so attracted to and or pay too much attention to anything. I'd do. Sharks are short biter shark tax things that night I was always. Made by the men. I came across a number somewhere that suggested that the word shark, you might be fine issues resourceful. As you are the word shark, with something like six hundred times more A trigger than almost any other word that public lexicon to us to humans. I was always amazed by that and corset.

Leads to all the success of these kind of shark. You take chosen rather now an endless new experts everywhere that have some new story. They wanna tell about them, etc, but there was just something that attract people of his animals that man has become a meal ticket for a whole lot of folks out there there's a weird thing about being frightened of the thing your attracted to were being attacked to a thing that frightened you, we kind of talked rounded bed but somewhere in the midst of the headlines today and in your career, there's a weird corollary between our relationships with sharks and our current relationship with this virus and trying to find a place where we're going have to live with both, because neither one is gonna go away unless we hunt them into extinction like the morons, we ve proven ourselves to be from time to time

I certainly hope that doesn't happen but correct they ve been swimming around the same oceans we crawled out of millennia ago. They ve been here from the jump. There's still gonna be here. It's really just a question. It seems of how fearful are, we gonna beat be you made a shark suit that brought people a certain peace of mind, I think, maybe we're seeing something similar unfold right now, all around us every day, whether its diapers or masks or whatever it is. We are still in the midst figuring it out, and I for one can't wait to see how it all shakes out,

you know the shark huge yes provided some safety and sanctuary in some comfort in that regard, but it also and more importantly, in my view- provided access. It gave us access so that we could have experiences and have the time to deepen our understanding what other creatures any other animals, be they two or four legged or avenger whatever out therein, as opposed to just being so disrespectful and discarding anything environmental and all the other creatures. Here, as though there are something of ours to be used, exploited under extracted like couldn't agree more that we face a similar kind of of issued today without were trying to navigate Deston you'd, see hot topic is even for the people expect their entire lives and career. Studying these things. There is always something else is always some little angle on here and what we are seeing, what this virus, but this has been spectacularly, come and see us in some ways,

my mother was an. She was a virologist worked in small countries around the world: Iraq, Mexico, Africa, all these kind of dangerous places it. four times she was an epidemiologists by trade, she's, a doctrine epidemiologist as a result. Exposed to a lot of that understand? the theory and John around this kind of thing, because she was out there trying to help somebody's other smaller third world countries. If you will notice respect intended, tell the NEO somebody's big public health crises, Do I know that there's nobody trying to scammers in there's nobody trying to extend this drama that we're all experiencing now, just for profit. There are those who will take advantage of that opportunity to do so when they're doing it. Clearly, the big farm on all that there is dark as they are light, they ve done good things. Pollutant ghastly thing

and they continue to do both like most of us. Sadly, what's goin on now, it's a dangerous thing to be put back on people who are really putting the time in to understand everything they possibly can about these bugs and they do change and they do more than they do shift around, and if we could just focus on the reality of at all, as opposed to all the peripheral opportunities end or business angles and or politics, and all that sort of nonsense. Matt we'd be way down the road. By now I would assume rents resisting trying to do things that we know will help reduce the draftsman noted. These things should be done. What's the harm remain too conflate that, with a lot of the other, deeper emotional issues that our culture, particularly,

we're in stating our egos have is a menace perilous and it's killing people and to me that's a very sad thing: it took possession of him, but you gotta get to the other side of it and the best way to do that is to do the best you can with the best information you have that moment. Science is not perfect, but science is constantly in pursuit of the things that they dont know, so that we can have a better understanding of what the force and art arch had come along with it. Otherwise what is science without art, but a bunch of numbers, blackboard, attract action, ouch I've never been born in your presence Jeremiah for making the time. It's always my pleasure to have a few minutes. You man and wonderful, to see or bring back dirty jobs, and sweet marriage still keeping you in line driver. You look in his healthy his horse and about its biggest one too

We ve all put out a couple of pals. I know you're about this, far removed from shameless plug, wherein consumerism as imaginable. But what do you want to plug? Where do you want people to go where you want people to do who had listened to listen, said at Jeremiah I'd like to know more about that get well. You know. I think the website you're a good place to start the goods. view as a german Sullivan dot com. Then, Russia them arranged by the shark shoot that would be a shark armor, dot com or shark suits laurel dot com. This event, tech. It I've been doing a lot of this current heavy left that I'm involved a now, as you can see it: Silver Gate, tech, dot, com, sobering attackers, assailed, the r j t t e K. Subject common there you'll see what all of this forty five years of working in the protective solutions sector has been turning out yonder, I think you'll find them

A particularly interesting chuck final thoughts was everything I promised you first largest, look at you. You look like Ernest Hemingway's older, more in shape, smarter brother. To me, and your is humble- is the day is long honest to God. You are crazy, brave the stuff I've seen you do in video your art work is phenomenal. I mean I encourage everyone to look you up on Instagram at Shark bait s h, r, K a b, a the numeral, eight That's you and it's great stuff pleasure to meet you better, like oh cheeky, shark bait, if the grant that was it. way back in the seventies people's you're. My way you get where those personalized license plate, some other California, but it's doing right now. No, I don't do that. I'm not a joiner output, stickers and my car. I don't do that customs. Well years, later. Somebody eventually talk me into doing just restored little two thousand to be of double back and whenever that was so early seventies

I went there to check out you back at violent would shortly so I looked up and wouldn't it be in Vienna, put in the letters on challenge They were probably six or seven variations of spelling that were already taken already taken. Could what if In short, they gave their lives on this planet and all the shark made legislature joyfully they found when I came up with what is ass quickly, trying to configure it there and to keep up with the numeral on the end, which was ended up frank, my biggest, the coolest went totally naturally, but It was quite surprised anywhere kept that personal plate on my old cars for years and years nears. That's where the whole shortly. They came from all. This is what you hate: imitators you're, the original start made everybody else in the world. in your handle driving around with shark bid on their cars. I could understand

That's another one of the lessons by the way about contemporary capitalism, when I formed Silver Gate, but one my partners, we're looking up names takes like when I shipped off to shark armor from rebranding, for company name, but what did by trademark? First and then I came in Dhaka, beg at the risk of going never ever ever list. Your trademark revolve your trademark before secure your url research on ass, because these guys isn't a industry out there that goes and watches new business name grabs, that name and then it was still trying to get himself back here. At the by my name back from a fireman whose called Micro who bought it years ago he wasn't doing anything online, he just Saddam jobs and thought one day that guy's gonna want a website called my growed. He was right, a strange world we live in down. I guess all we can do is keep trying to do the right thing. Despite

lieutenant easily inclinations for most of us to do things the wrong way. Doesn't it would do my long as we can do it? We might as well. Every so often you gotta by your own name back just the way, the cookie crumbles, Germany be well stay, healthy, Youtube, videos