Clint Hill, a former member of the Secret Service, and his wife Lisa McCubbin Hill talk about their new book, My Travels with Mrs. Kennedy, which includes tales of bringing a Pakistani horse into the US without quarantine, what The Crown got wrong about Mrs. Kennedy's lunch with Queen Elizabeth II, and Clint and Mrs. Kennedy eating Moroccan mahjoun in Marrakech. Spoiler alert—Mahjoun is essentially a hash brownie.
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It's the way. I heard it episode number. Where are we to seventy six? Yes, this one's called gottschalk tell him the best road trip ever like the three related to cluttered up with an article, or can it just be best road trip ever while the last time that we had these guests on it was up two thirty nine, the best business card in history yeah- and I remember saying at the time does it have to be the best business card history just best business card in history. You were probably right all right. Well, you know what we want to call it. Let's call it. Best road trip ever not no one has time anymore to get bogged down with unnecessary words or listened to and necessary. Banter like this, I just scratched out the the you're good to go well, okay, in the words of Charles thompson, you could scratch it back in, but remember him now, what's that from
else. Thompson was the secretary right behind his annul congress. Seventeen, seventy six, that's up it. If that's right, their arguing over the slavery issue. I think something unease like ass. You know so he agrees to scrap. It out, and then they argued like now that we are going to leave it in and they say put it back in Mr Thompson and he says I just scratched it out. what efforts at Jackie graduate back in we're, maybe it was atoms, That's neither here nor there, my friends best road trip ever is an alternative title for a terrific book called my travels with MRS Kennedy, and that book is written by my friend Clint hill and LISA mccammon hill, if it sounds at all familiar well, it's probably because they ve been guests on here before clint held to those of you who don't know is a former secret service age
You'll be ninety one years old next month. I think he is guarded five. U s president's in his life, one of whom was kennedy, and he was ultimately aside. And the guard Jackie Kennedy he's the guy who dove on the cadillac moments after the president was assassinated way back twenty two nov nineteen sixty three he's back on the podcast. Now, because Well he's my neighbour, and he is a living legend, and this new book for the first time doesn't really deal with the day. That's defined him. It deals with, as the title might suggest, the best road trip ever and be I understood when he's talking about that trip around the world. What would you have given a switch places with whatever I had
I mean it really is amazing. They went everywhere: paris, morocco, india, london, ITALY, everywhere across the globe and did the most amazing things and he was charged with her safety and they developed quite a friendship and its evident in this book. Its evident by the pictures in this book that something that's amazing to is that this book is filled with pictures that have never been seen before, and these pictures contain captions sometimes written, I, MRS Kennedy, sometimes written by president Kennedy and it all started with them, opening up an old trunk that was in the basement. That's the thing that hooks me and that's the thing: in a hook, everybody else's well glance. A complicated guy he'll tell you and we cannot get into a toward the end of this, but he suffered for many years from ptsd he's seen by millions millions of people as a euro, including may be
He did everything he could on that terrible day, but the president still lost his life and part of clint has never been able to let himself off the hook. For that In fact, this whole odyssey started when LISA was ransacking their homes looking for the metal the clint was awarded for bravery. On that day, we would, if you need to know the guy, does not want a medal for bravery. He still thinks he let his country down and, in the course of that search they come across this trunk, and this trunk says something like property of the white house and write. It says Clinton, J, hill, white house, white house right crazy, so it's basically an old steamer trunk filled with mementos and photos and all sorts of
the things that clint either didn't want to keep or didn't want to remember, and so he locked them away in a trunk and his wife finds the trunk and they open it together and they go through this treasure trove of stuff and that's really what it is chuck. This is a treasure chest filled with things that wind up in this book called my travels with MRS kennedy: full disclosure, I'm trying to sell some books for him, but that's not why they're on the podcast they're on the podcast, because clear. Hill is one of those interesting people. I know, and there are some things in the book that are really regulatory. He has some really important things to say, I believe to anybody who's ever suffered from ptsd, but more than that he's just has a life that I mean. Can you imagine here's the pitch? Hey MIKE, hey chuck, here's what we need you to do. We need you to guard one of the most beautiful women
in the world, one of the most popular women in the world you're going to go around the world. Here's a gun and you're gonna need to do some things along the way like facilitate the shipping of a horse, thousands of miles from pakistan to this country gotta, be some hash. Browns too Sally I, on the other, it's gonna be a trip you we also want to add cause I'm about to land this plane. Now man landed. Let's get to it. It's a great conversation. It's really good, and it's all the time. I know you do, but you know what pimples Believe me for now my travels with MRS Kennedy, its awesome and my friends, clint and LISA hill I'm an up right after this. I did not see that come in do do do do do down so the unintended consequences of removing shop class from high school
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one of the best ever I know I stopped by your house. This morning I was out I walk and I looked up. I was right there. So your wife, let me any game. Coffee, mug that. we're very kind and gentle you're giving people. She also gave me this walk we ve broken is filled with amazing pictures and stories of a great a well. You know I'm just going to say it a legend. You know I think I he called you a legend last time or at that that I call him an icon. I was stuck in a pretty good. Are mighty called you both Here, a legend and here I believe it was- was it well. You know your definitely. Both things quit europe certainly in american and in the eyes of a whole lot of people you're here, oh, I doubt you see your that way, because your own failings, a modest as all north dakota tsar but dumb. Let's do the small talk
you're coming up on ninety one how's it going pretty good my problems, but see I'm tied to an oxygen so that's a little bit of a hindrance in the that's from sea well, pd when I was nineteen, It's all. I knew everything there was to know the world. I began smoking cigarettes and I didn't tell I was fifty years old nineteen. Eighty two, I am now suffering laughed glances of that. When did you realize that you actually didn't know everything in the world when I became fifty, I guess so you're ahead of most people, by far lisa. Has it dawned on you. Yet that you don't know everything in the world or you still labouring under that that assumption I I never under that impression, except maybe when I was about twenty- I guess clean now
think he does know everything in the world. I mean he's just like an encyclopedia buddy. better than that he's a living encyclopedia, because anything that happens or we see our. Ask him about invariably wholesale only. I know that I was actually there. Must be super annoying to sit down with your house, and and watch a documentary. Or some sort of store a goal. Thriller like that round or any number of other things. You know he must be allowed to enter a crown interesting because we actually have just started reworking the crown we watched him when I first came out. I guess, and now you start reworking it and just like Last week we watched the episode when MRS Kennedy jacqueline Kennedy that at the time first lady had lunch with the queen and they portray that on netflix. and clear, we reserve the aid for trade,
that she actually met with the queen prior to the luncheon at windsor castle, unfortunately for the queen. We weren't india and pakistan until the twenty six march. We flew from a key dear. I saw the shaw sister fluent london state overnight when To have lunch with the queen, the next day we never saw or approached windsor gasoline. We were. through the main house, the big buckingham palace, buckingham palace. I knew there had to be a name for it. The figures we waited is in a very different hazy than we do. that whole segment was based somebody's dreamer. Yet it never We it the most ridiculous I would just there.
Watching it. He went back actually and go I'm going to look this up. I'm gonna look for this I remember going windsor castle and we didn't go windsor castle and he was just why to do this. One is hollywood, went up to mixed up the real story good enough. Isn't it you think so? Will you would think so? I mean obviously we're gonna die veneer later spoke in a second, but but I am interested really as a man of your experience. sit down in front of the tv to look at something that misses the mark. I mean Has it always annoyed you to see people get it wrong? Has it become more annoying to you, as you continue to mature it's become more annoying? looming in later years, but has all been annoyed by me again. and why they can't do it right. The properly honestly and I've gotta make this stuff up in it to me is
it's: what's the other thing that really annoys you when we're watching television? These says language they assumed in nineteen sixty two or sixty five or whatever back in the fifties. We spoke with you certain word. Edward Then, like they do now, I mean you know heard that were in a garbage. And when you did usually didn't, want anything to do with Britain that reducing the work it was shocking, I'm shower. what is absolutely shocking. Now I mean the other night. We watch in certain started. Come in the first three minutes. I think it was like Twenty five times a year that would seriously Why is that the only word they know that down in hollywood? Well, I made you it. work in a lot of different ways, clint right a works as a noun. It works as a verb. You can
Is it as an adjective you have to it it is an ugly vulgar term, but from a rhetorical perspective there is an all, falada utility in the f word I managed to get along without many many years but tell me that which president, if it's not, it. I don't want you to reveal anything you shouldn't reveal but which president had the greatest potty mouth of all time, I take a guess, I was gonna, say Johnson man, I gotta be Johnson right, it was vulgar and he would say Is the bio I saw were inappropriate of people that he shouldn't have sent them to blast. The part that bothered me more than anything, it's amazing for women that I didn't. It should be said it must. Then very strange to have to stand there and bite your tongue. I mean
Lastly, that's kind of the story of your life right. You ve guarded five president's I'll bet, not a day went by where you didn't have to literally by your tongue. Your job was to not talk about the very things we're talking about nice richer. I job was to keep quiet, stay in the shadows and your job LISA as an investigative report. and a co author and now the wife of in some ways it seems like, has been to to get in there to shake the memories loose to get him to talk about
the only things that he never wanted to talk to and look. This is really the place where I want to begin right. Clint hill is very private person. Jackie Kennedy was a very very private person and Clint went from a guy who swore took a vow. He would never write a book. He would never talk about these things. He would keep it inside and then it changed. Then we found that you know what you were a part of history and the books that you guys wrote to. other dealt in to that, and then you became so closely associated with one single moment in time that it's almost like? You were tight cast away, and now you ve come out with this book, which is just so great
I mean there's barely a mention in it of the assassination, but the pictures LISA and the stories that accompany them reveal an awful lot. This thing is, I don't even want to call it a picture book, even though its jam with pictures, because its full a lot of things that I didn't know and I'm guessing a lot of other people did know either it's true and mike you know we actually never had any intention of writing another book. We, both I plan, had told all the stories that you know he could remember and then what happened was in twenty nineteen. We were went back to hell river junior, where he owned a homeward. He had lived for almost fifty years down hadn't been for about ten years and decided it was time to sell the house, and yet it was still filled with stuff and
He wanted to call one eight hundred god junk We would all at once swoop, and I said you know, maybe we should go in there and see. There might be something of value, and thank god we did it right. I was wrong in wanting to put it in the the local garbage heap. But what specifically did you find LISA? Well, one First things we found in the garage I was cleaning, the garage and we came to different areas of the house and the girl. I was just used as a storage play storms. seventy- and there was this big box. It had a wet dry back in it and I picked it up
and underneath that was a steamer trunk, this big steamer trunk and on the front of the steamer trunk. It said Clinton, hill, the white house, Washington DC, and I went oh, my god and I said clint what's in here and what did you say? I told you, I don't really know cause. I opened it in years. In fact, I'd been a flood that flooded this particular bar to the garage where at least the trunk was gap, and so I Is that your hard to tell what's in there I mean probably just let him mold and snakes, and I probably did because I was wanting to make sure that you didn't want opener. You're standing there, though next to an investigative reporter clan, the odds are pretty high. Lisa carbon needs this what the hell is in the trunk. What's in the rock she says
I know I did get her to did life overnight drunk we came back the next day when he mentioned rats and worms. I was like snakes. I was like. Ok, let's get some rubber gloves and garbage bags a lot of protection that would have been alright. the next day, Lucy you wherein rubber gloves you go back to the scene of man. Rector hands, better job bonuses? Mouth you take this very much if this for posterity sophie We were opening up king tut's tomb. You know, I didn't know what we were going to find. So I didn't record, I didn't know either I didn't know- or I don't remember cause I boy. I couldn't tell you the last time I opened, I think, but it would have been many many many years ago decades. Okay, I bought that help. Sixty seven, so yeah, so we opened up and inside there was a smell a mould by everyone.
Was dry and it was pretty well preserved. It was just filled with lots of boxes, little boxes, big boxes, like gift boxes and the thing that we were looking for MIKE actually was his metal that he had been given after the assassination for his bravery. He didn't know where it was. And so that was the one thing we were looking for, so we find this trunk with all these boxes in it, and so we said I made its in here. I have no idea. Let's start. opening them up, so we start opening them up and, There were air force, one playing cards unopened. There were pins presidential, pays and tie clips? Click go see just a bunch of junk. Presidential. These opposed to you mentioned in the book right, lighter, nor, with the presidential seal on that's boldly, go back, one sec
because I want to get a whole inventory of everything in the trunk, but the first thing as you are looking for a metal that he misplaced or just who knows, I mean what else do you need to know about the guy? You know: here's a medal for bravery, yeah thanks. He puts that in the same places, some who knows some playing cards. Knick knacks I mean that's funny. Yeah. Well, I never thought I deserved that. Also, why not. Cause. I didn't think I was doing the job I knew I wouldn't have done the job. I was supposed to do now was that group that promote happening and prevent it from happening. true, but you ran up afterwards, I mean you were so brave in the moment. A means of footage is there anybody who sees it can see
brought up by the wonderful father and mother, and my father taught me that when you are given a responsibility and life You fulfil our responsibilities, the job you carry out what you have to do now, job for end, whatever it is, and joy fell. Jesse, way about the job. I am the secret service. Whenever I was given in the silent, I want to cure it all away to the very end. It was all, and in this case we left the united states people down with the world down and it ended in a disaster present anyway, skill LISA, I'm in a tough spot, because there's no way, I want to argue with your husband, no way I can dispute. of this, and he knows that
Hundreds of millions of people would take a different view. Hundreds of millions of people look at that moment on that day and see good men, doing best they can under a situation that I just don't know how it could have been avoided, but is that part of the quality is that part of the clint hill, the that, hopefully people will get to know? your books, that kind of self effacing stubbornness and complete unwillingness to accept a shred of praise for god's sakes Absolutely I think, especially in this book, because this book not about the assassination and it is, I mean, there's we're over two hundred photographs. Most have never been seen before or have never been published and almost all of them have really detailed, captions, very personal captions of the photos except for forth.
Those in their about the assassination and those are the only ones with no captions because I think there is a line in the book were planned, says you know ever since I read, hired in nineteen. Seventy five, the only thing Nobody has ever wanted to talk to me about. Is that one day and frankly, I'm tired of talking about them day there is so much more that happened and your that's. What this book is out is remembering the good times that he had with mrs kennedy and nuts as we opened up this trunk and through the house and found memorabilia it brought back fond memories, right plants. and funny stories. I mean there's some really funny stories in this book that he had never told me that he's never told before
or, but then it also does deal with the aftermath of the assassination, something that he's been really hadn't wanted to deal with before, through its a book of good stories arisen that dr during a carry those direction than the death of their no new born. So sure that's patient present itself these good times, and there were so many good times. Doo doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo back in the good old days, people ate what they killed and they grew they ate? It was a simpler time. a time when we were connected to the food in ways that ensured we knew precisely what we were showing and swallowing. Well, those days are gone. Today. If you want to know what you're eating you're gonna need a magnifying glass and ten minutes to read all the unpronounceable fine print on the back of cans and packages filled with crap, sorry, but it's true rack
getting anywhere near the recommended levels of fruits and vegetables, and when we do therefore with preservatives and process gunk that simply no bueno. That's why a field of greens. Every morning field of greens is pack for the full spectrum of essential vegetables and fruits. Was science backed herbs and pre by this? Is real food folks grounded to an ultra fine powder once hope into a bottle of water and your guaranteed all the fruits and vegetables. You need in a single day, you'll have more energy, you look and feel healthier, you might even lose some weight. Lotta people do visit fee of greens, dot com and use promo code mike and you'll get ten percent off your order, plus thanks to your order, my friends at brick house will make five dollar donation to the micro works foundation. Thanks guys, I appreciate that field of greens. Dotcom prom. Code, MIKE.
a one. Two three regime, like you, never see away. Yes, swallow sung at just like a girl. When I just looked through the places you ve been, I mean it's just. Extraordinary, and I want to get to all that. But what else was in the trunk we understand, like you, opened the trunk, you don't know you go through it. You find some things and at some point lisa, it must dawn on you this is a this is a gift. This is a treasure chest sexually. It really is one of the things has actually happened to show you it's true, so I found here is like a box that we found ample. What was in the trunk and on it it says to mark shaw, one forty to ease thirty,
new york new york from my nox processing laboratories and saw bring this box declared. He was in another part of the house, and I opened it and I said what I found what's this thought it was a pocket knife, and what did you say? Merciful, god, I've forgotten about their spike called, is back in a minute manage camera, usually for copying documents. I said I didn't remember I've had it Is this the thing in mission impossible? You know where they break into the office late at night and they open the file and they spread out the pages and they start taking quick pictures like that. Is that, basically, what that thing is that's what it is and also inside the box
this envelope of picture small, because everything developed with this camera, the film from this camera and they all from his trip with MRS Kennedy in nineteen sixty two sixty years ago. To revalue italy they ve never been seen before, and so some of these photos or in the book- and they brought back all these memories of hold one up to the lens there. If you would say like here, he is he's under the yoke With MRS Kennedy Janni on his yacht, her on it wow writing taking a picture of her on the stern money, and yet you use the spike reform for tourists depicts europe well swimming. I use. the scammer very sparingly These are documents cliff
I am aware that I use it now. Thank you. the time you use it. I thought much. Do it irreversible, but he told me, while I civil did you use it? Is on her- and you said no, you know what he did was he took pictures of like the crew, and If something were to happen, then you know somebody did something nefarious? He had a photograph of the crew members, which I thought was your white clever, very spy like closure. You know got a spy camera. You might as well be employed some basic spy craft. He was in this. Quit service. I was just going to say: what's the difference between a spy, the secret service, whose overseas, essentially nothing no one else, why you included man? I know I know I'm taking copious notes of the soul thing right now, so you there, you are linked in europe in the trunk,
no one alexandria. Is there a difference? Clint anymore, real water between the subregions? This is If you live with lose that right, it was at windsor castle. It was the big house, they got it all wrong and did you notice he remembered the date march? Twenty six I mean come on. Yes, I know all right so, haven't seen the contents of the trunk for over fifty years. Now it's open, you got a flood of memories. You got a bunch of memorable you and you decide all right. Let's peel back a few more layers and and see what we see and what comes out is this book and its packed with these story. is I mean I guess there a lot of ways to come at it and look at it. But for me it's possible to leaf through this and read it and not put myself in clint's place, and I think that's what's so much fun about the book for a guy any way you get to imagine going all through India
all through pakistan, all through greece and morocco all around the world with the most one of the most intriguing women on the planet by your side, the whole time a woman who is really kind of coming into our own clint right I mean she was a terrific ambassador for the united states, and there you are with your gun and your spy camera and they yachts you're in charge, do you, I mean it's just it. So it's such and such a fantasy. And he was thirty around thirty years old at the time yeah, how is she wasn't? She the same age. Certain data is used. Thirty two Yeah and what are those yachts by the way was onassis yeah, I mean just the description of that in the book is pretty amazing. Its quantity youtube trying to get on
in london, you can charter for today. I think it's like a hundred thousand dollars a day. Oh alright, that seems like Are you working for us on the yacht, gilbert So a lot more advertising on its part of guys. I started yacht parties, the hills, but the point is you, air in some of the most far flung places on the planet. With one of the most recognisable women in the world with the full power of the united its government behind you to get that which needs to be done done whatever it might be. So I just love to hear some more specific stories. I mean I'd like to hear about getting the horse out of pakistan, which I just think is fricking awesome. I was concerned about their king arthur
in pakistan, so she was given a horse as a gift from the president of Pakistan. The cod and people of Pakistan gave her a beautiful gift of a horse. Bears his name was sartor and I knew nothing about it until it happened. So now I realize I'm gonna be yours. Life will forget that their moors factor united states, so I had to work with the state department, ended with the military to analyse all the president had a military liaison office in the white house, and there are seventy of the army that rubs the navy rubs in the air. where's, the four guy that got this job was it representative of the air force. He was a one star, general mchugh right, godfrey mchugh, I wasn't were exactly how they work
to do this and I got a telephone call from a cue. Yet he was completely flustered said that at present attacked Ask him with a job of getting that horse back to the united states, and nobody was to know about because the president was afraid of bad publicity using government funds or something bright to move that horse so east. I told that sounds like exactly what should happen general. I said you go that and get it done. Let me keep me informed. and so he would call me up and eagerly at one time he said the horse on board, but now we got a problem for wait: you're gonna refuel! I refused to let us land because of the horses on air are afraid
Their animals organism how contract disease from this oars inside his airplane when the ground. Well, I said these rob. You can answer Mr Denham no, let's get drunk with this, or we did next thing. I know he's on the phone he says quit. He said it's not just the horse said they got a guy with a horse. He's got a big red tunic on and pointed at, and he We will not leave the horse inside it. Well, that's probably have to request the president. I have gone Well, that's what the man told us yes there. The presidential request, what we do with them. Just go along the keep bringing the horse back to the ice age. They finally get it back in,
if all animals like that, when the come into the united states are to go through customs and quarantine? Mrs Kennedy was very concerned about her new course. In quarantine for thirty days, and so she said her husband along telegram telling how much you loved that horse, she didn't want to have to be in quarantine for thirty days. They would never treat prince Charles. that way. If he were in the united states going back to london, you would never read some money in your own family. This way she does laid out all kinds of things. You said last week. Anything other was, she said, you know all the people from which enable the organization of protection.
Peter that'd be peter via humane society. They're not going to vote for you if they find out that always has been damaged. So I thought good point, so she pleaded with him somehow the horse manage to arrive at Andrews air force base in maryland right outside of washington. They took him to fort myer when they got into fort myer. Mrs candy wanted to go see now the visions were. You can't ride the horse for at least two weeks, so we went there to caroline with her just as sure the horse and she didn't ride him that time, but she didn't wait two weeks either about ten days later, so she was there on the phone with me. I'd like to go to fort myer. I want to see
sardar it's okay, you got the car habitation for my daughter. She was getting her riding attire and I thought oh she's going to do something that you're not supposed to do. not a lot. I can do about it, so we got there sure enough. He did right doors prior to the time she was supposed to. Is this? The guy is that the the escort guy was a german, the red coat. He was even tasked with making sure the horse eight, the right food. I mean certain kinds of eight years after it was funny at the time so clean told me this story There was a photographer that that was there and. Was told. Ok, you can leave these photographs of the press. Nobody can see this well then. I came across these photographs.
on the J, f k, library website or archives. Beside you started, hilarious? So these are photos that never been published never been seen before and somebody where to see them they were, no the story behind it began. nobody knew that story, except for climate. So now Do we have this hilarious story, but we have the photos to prove it and where the photos in the trunk. Was that part in now some of the photos there in the book we found we curated too. Along with the stories that clean, told. So there are a lot of photographs in the book tat. We did indeed find in the trunk photographs from Jackie Kennedy, but then what we did was we went through and did a lot research as well to bring additional photos to the book to help tell the story because there's some photos in here LISA than I don't.
I mean if Jackie had area, I don't worry holiday pr person, I'm not sure these would have been approved. I like her in a raincoat goloshes, I'm looking at those Yes, I'm looking at some fashion moments that are somewhat inconsistent with her image at the time. I must looking at a very, very casual, looking relaxed, a kennedy in somewhere so it looks like we're ass usual act, which you there is a nice long story. We Of nice long story a time, my gotta time, kidding your wooden jackie in morocco, hit me. We were on board leakers christina over in greece, and we were the kagan. Morocco would, like MRS Kennedy, stopped in marrakech with him and his family
who celebrate the fortieth day of life of their new ones are so there was Jake manual work in. Why. In Kansas state department, everybody. They said. Oh that's great, so if you want to do it, do it so she agreed to it, and the king sent his personal plane to athens to pick us up, which you stole the blanket from the plane yeah. I stole my gift play that sports is calling it was a nice- pointed had royal moroccan here. Of course, we hope complementary now grown up, so we flew to wear a cash. ever we're guests of the game and the first night there was going to be a party so ways gonna gone to always son war,
broke out between morocco and algeria up on the border between the two countries and the king had to take care that situation, so he couldn't be at his party, so he turned it over to his brother. The shall we go to the party in below Are there your guests, a royal family? Like anything, we've got as gifts come to the white house. We the people that come, don't worry about the food or anything. You assume that it's going to be okay- and I did the same with this because it was the cane People putting on his party and they don't drink alcohol in right now, no alcohol was no good for the best
throughout the borders and a lot of reserves at the little brown thing she thought she wanted to bite out of it. So I thought I'd better. Try that make sure it's! Okay! It's like chocolate myself and I asked the waiter I said, there's something special about this. She said. Oh, this is a moroccan. Thank you very, very happy with much module. Oh no way, if you look it up, you find out The june is made from hashish it's their equivalent to allay brownie laced with marijuana so just to be clear. You and MRS Kennedy ingested edibles together back in the sixties. In america, they got back together and we have the photos in the book yards out what happened? Okay, nineteen sixty three correct there up you were here was unknowingly.
yeah. I have your idea mandela, already taken by she had already ingested one or maybe yeah. Yeah, it's the whole issue. I have another one of those waiter. Keep him come one of the things we found in the trunk mike was the blame. From maybe stall. Isn't the right were lowered? They gave it to us again on airlines a mind to take things anyway. Then there was this box of negatives, film, negatives and arm. I think you were the one that found that so you can kind of sea that there were pictures of mrs Kennedy on these negative, but then we had them developed and that's when we realise these were pictures from that party when they had the hash browns
How do you get those developed and just drop them off at the quickie? Martin hope you get an ice responsible twenty two year old kid who does recognise I can add. I realise when the party we break it up that night, And we were gonna leave and go back to the palace that had been a photographer there at this point, the kings photographer. So I went to him, I said you know: I'm went to a secret service very much like that. Funding is used and we I have to have a process before it can be released and he willingly gave it to me. I carry with me back to the united states, had it developed and processed by internal photograph studios there at the white house and then presented them to MRS Kennedy. She never said much about them and I didn't really inquire
but then you had the negatives denied and not very what word is full We had a job very flattering to michigan. But so what I did my two when we came back to california with a lot of this stuff, which you know we brought a lot of these things back to our home, I wanted to see what was on these negatives, because when we found them in the trunk, he didn't really remember all of this at the time. So I inquired of a friend who's, a photographer, and I said to you: I think there might be something historic on these, so anyway, she gave me some advice and settle cable. I took them to a local lab. I asked to see the storm you're, and I said I mean sign and da and sort of like an insurance form on the photographs. And then did them for me and like an hour and a half while I waited there, because I was afraid that they might disappear. Sure,
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as long as we're talking about photos tell me about the photo on the cover the book, which also happens to be. Where am I page one? Seven, the seven kind of an amazing shot who took it and how did it wind up making it's way onto the cover marks? Your target mark shaw was a private photographer in new york city, where he also worked for life magazine. He had been in world war, two nice guy. He and his wife, patty Suzuki was professional. Singer were friends of MRS Kennedy's and the president, and I knew them as well got to know me better once We write a lot of troops when they were on this particular trip to Brazil and they were on Boise and you gotta this yacht. We had that provided by johnny in yellow. You want VI corp, and MRS Kennedy was sitting err on the side of the boat, with a camera taking photos
ass, her shop with a camera, the march I loaned her and he was sitting on the other side taking photographs of what she was doing. So this has to be one of those four. What strikes me about it really just for the first time. Consciously anyway, I mean this is decades before selfies were thing, and this really obviously is not a selfie, but the fact that one of the most photographed women the history of the world. Is sitting there holding a camera while she looking at a camera, that's almost reflected back in her sunglasses is kind of it resting. You know I mean her relationship with the press. Her relationship with the lens was so. I was barely alive at this point, but that LISA seems utterly unique for first lady at that point, anyhow,
it wasn't. She had been a photographer working for a magazine or a newspaper before she met J f k. and so she was indeed, I think was called the inquiring photographer something and issue always loved photography and on this trip, marcia loan to that camera and mark shy, as you will recall, is the one that gave clear the spy camera. Also on this trip- and so She was taking all kinds of photographs. Wouldn't it be fun to know what photographs she took. It would maybe I'm making too big deal of it, but in this day and age it jesse like everybody is documenting every thing all of the time Even common citizens, it seems, are just used to it. I mean I'm sure it's happened.
you guys you're on a stage you're talking to a group of people and you look out and seventy eighty percent of them are looking at you through their phones according yeah. Like everything, is being preserved for posterity today, but back then that was not the case at all. Now, we use film and then, by the time you've got the film developed, you'd forgotten what you took pictures of. So it's almost like remember when you'd get the pictures back from the device Oh yeah. I forgot about this right, so I mean that's kind of happened here with us. Is all these photographs tat we digitized and it brings back alive memories except cleared. They didn't come to you two or three weeks after you talk. They came to you fifty some years later, as the result of forest dumping your way across a mouldy old, steamer trunk full of
snakes in rats. Then maybe other things. As well, it just must be utterly unique to be in your position and around the world were living in today and to look at this great book. That's just come out that really I mean it. The story of your life, but boy really intimate look at a time in your life that dumb again, I think, is kind of unexampled. I just can't think of another person who would be in a position. to share a book like this other than the man who guarded five presidents. So congratulations! Well. Thank you very much. I was very lucky that I was given, this assignment? I didn't want it. What I initially received it, but I had to accepted my dear it turned out to be a very, very good job I gotta ask you something else. I told you. I came
this morning in your wife gave me this amazing a mug. Thank you. You know it's a great parting gift but she also showed me something I hadn't seen before were expected to see. She showed me a scrap book that Jackie gave to you once upon a time, and I looked through it. There were some photos clint that this was a very personal gift and stay in my lane here, but I almost felt I wasn't sure I should be looking at it and its speaks. The specialness of the relationship you had. But can you talk about the book why she gave it to you and what it means to you? She gave it to me in november nineteen sixty four. I was just about to leave for detail and go back to the white house, detail the secret service and reassign me to go back to the presidential detail. There was another agent to take my place with MRS Kennedy in new york
he had moved to new york city, so she wanted to have a little going away party and she had it in her office in new york city, and there are a few agents or register staff with very small, and she had raised with Nancy talk about her chief of staff to devolve this notebook with photos that were taken over the course of the time I'd been with. Mrs Kennedy of our travels are various things and it was very personal, as you say, and most appreciative of it, and I've kept these many many years. That was nineteen sixty four, that's thirty! Six to fifty eight years ago, it was one of the last things that we found when we were cleaning up the house and down the opening page. She had written the travels
Clinton J hill and then there were captions with a lot of these photos, and so, as you say, it was a very personal gift in the book we share most of the photos that were in the scrap book, so that's wanna things people can see within this book. I think the other thing that comes rule and shock you can chime and because I know you ve read most of it, but it's this idea it's the evolution of a relationship between two people, in some ways. It just feels representative or maybe metaphorical of the country's relationship with self. In some ways I mean when you met her, she was very, very pregnant and you were very unhappy. You did not want to be guarding the first lady. It was second shrift. It was not working action was, and you felt slighted. Likewise
she didn't want you anywhere near her she's, a young, beautiful woman, she's gotta. If to lead and all of a sudden, she's this microscope, and so somehow you too, when from being in each other's way to being friends and then becoming something that I think can only happen when one party trust, the others so completely, and then both parties trust the other and I guess that's just along awkward way of saying: well, I don't
with any other relationships like that, and I hadn't thought to ask you about it. Really until LISA showed me the scrapbook there's such affection in it, it's really sweet. We had a deep bond between us because we'd gone through so many things together to somewhat experienced. You know certain things at the same time, side by side, and so as she trusted me, she respected me. I trusted her and respected her and that's what held us together so closely that this matter of mutual respect and understanding that I was good He knew all the time I was gonna be got leaving and going back to the white house detail We didn't know when nationally, but turned out to be right after the presidential election, maggie sixty four and a lot of these traps that are documented in the balkans. a scrap book, the president wasn't on. So it was really
I by herself and plant, oftentimes her sister Lee was there and so there's a lot of stories about jackie in her relations with Lee as well, one of them things as client was telling me these stories as we unlocked all of these treasures I realized also when you travel with. online, especially to foreign countries, you experience things that you know when you come back and try to tell those stories. It's never quite the same as being there when you travel with someone, you develop this bond and I think that's kind of what this book shows is because they had always experiences. Together, crazy wild things like eating ass, brownie that
morocco is a good one. You know that, even though he could tell the story, you know we can't quite imagine what it must have been like to be there and that's where the photos come in, because it does help give more of a sense yeah cause. I was listening to the book. Clint reads the book, which is great and mike, as you were, describing the book. I was thinking what I was thinking when I was listening to it, which was it sort of reminds me of a buddy picture. Road trip like a buddy road trip and the way you described it. They both got into the situation not really pleased with the development is that's ever buddy picture. You know it's a girl. Will I'm stuck with this guy, and yet he stuck with me. You know, and the friendship that develops is really really palpable to the point. Where I mean, if I'm recalling occur they were you were saying all you needed to do was to look at her and she knew what you were thinking and vice versa,
through their easy became that easy we understood each other so that well she'd like a measured way, and I knew exactly what she wanted like a b, a crown situation or right. Get me out of here shake hands into his being polite and engines had enough and all she has to do get him and he's like ok time to go now. We all like to have somebody like that with us year. Oh my god. Yes, I know how that happens. Clint and I know why that happens, but when did it happen for you when Wendy? You go from the guy who was like. I can't believe I drew the short straw to I'm so glad, I'm here, because, where existing on a wavelength, that's pretty rare, my assignment to Missus ganny, I out as a number two there is only to us, but there was another guy charge at the very beginning, nineteen sixty and ended
sixty one. I was sent to paris to advance her portion of the trip she and the president were taken to paris, france and that I would went from paris down to athens degrees To advance a trip she was gonna make alone as a guest of as prime minister and his wife in greece that change my attitude. Someone. I could see that this was a lot better than I had originally thought. It would be an got better, I'd better and better, is ruined along. When did you start to liker, probably on network degrees, because you are a lot of. Where are the moments things that happened, that she would, let me know as much as she could advance as he could, when things were going to be changed, I would guess that when I really started to, we started to understand each other
much much better and nineteen sixty one right after the trip, the big trip to paris right yeah, the present michigan came to perish. Then they went to vienna. That was khrushchev. Then they flew to london had dinner with the queen and bridgeville up, and then he returned to washington. She came to asked back to the travel thing for a second lisa. There are a couple of things that I think make their relationship. What I would call a relationship on steroids right. The first thing is simply the stakes you're guarding her life. The stakes couldn't be higher, she's, both vulnerable, powerful and very much. On the world's mind
right. So that makes everything bigger. But the other thing is the travel and you know well, most people probably can't relate to that first dynamic. Most, everyone knows what it feels like to have an experience at home. And then the same experience in an exotic place and a far flung vacation. It heightens everything right. So my question is this: whole book is a whirlwind of exotic places occasions, characters I mean it's literally out of a movie and so between those two things. The pressure on these two people, it just seems like it would be a very difficult thing to replicate. Then I think when you get out of this fucking
you feel like you're there, so your line of the fly on the wall and you feel what it felt like to be clanton the things that he worried about how we dealt with it. I also see, I think, a jacqueline Kennedy that's never been shown before and how truly in elegant, she was, she spoke several languages fluently. I mean she was speaking with charles de gaulle in france and her husband had to have a translator, but she could converse with him and she had studied french history. She had lived in paris so She was this great ambassador. She spoke fluent italian and spanish when they would go down too. There are some trips to mexico city. And to south america that our chronicled here and she would speak spanish to the people and that endeared those people to not only her and her huh
the president, but to america- and you can see in this work how, at that time america was beloved around the world. A big part of that was because of jacqueline Kennedy. She This amazing ambassador and she Wasn'T- Trying to be the ambassador, she was just being who she was very curious intellectual. She would read up on the history of places before they would go somewhere like to india and pakistan, I so she really studied she wanted to understand the cultures and the history of these people so that when she got there She got even more out of the trips and was able to converse with the heads of state kind of remarkable that she's remember primarily for all things glamorous when in fact there was so much more to her so much more to me and she had so much for this country. Even
washington redecorated the white house with things made in the united states, not gifts from foreign countries. They first came the white house part right across the street, no right of law we have four and at that time was an idea that all and beautiful charming to store It turns around there would be replaced with replaced rises. She thought that was terrible, and so she went and did went very best to prevent that from happening and it back in It happened, and she now is remembered and there's a plaque was recently place there in her honor for preserving those. A buildings around lafayette bar to exist as they did at that she saved the park. Real, that's gonna think she was really interested in
keep a bluish lived in the way that was historical. I gotta be respectfully your time but there is something in the book: that's gotta heavy and something that I didn't that I want to ask you about two, because I think I've spent a fair amount of time with military guys, specifically around ptsd and the horrible suicide rates that continue to plague women in the armed forces- and I'm I'm always interested in organizations that find new ways to try and break through to try and help these people. There's a chunk here in the book. where you talk very candidly about an attempt to take your own life and since its in the book. I do Ask you about it, because I know statistically their people listening, who are struggling right now, with whatever
and to the extent and ninety one year old man who served five president's might be able to offer a little insight. I'd be grateful. Well, I was very depressed because of what had happened in dallas, and that was the twenty second of november with this is getting a job like to florida for christmas and new year is- and I was in georgia that protection I saw her every day. I saw the children every day of causing personal and adjust at me and eight at me. That here is his widow, her husband but gilbert, because we didn't do the job we were supposed to do and my and and the our fathers, because that reason and With the end of december.
was a real mess, and I left her at her residence there in palm beach florida in the hands of my system, and I went and had a drink at a bar called the athletic. And I decided it was better than I not be any order on this earth and joy walked out in my suit later closer aware, workin walk into the ocean, www intent of drowning myself A police officer was called there by the owner turned out the police after somebody I knew very well. He was motorcycle water and he came into the ocean and pull me out and safer
I I realized afterwards that it was a horrible thing that I had that I had broke. I was so depressed and that's the way, I'm sure many of these military people feel when they come back from an assignment in Iraq or afghanistan. Wherever they've been, and I realize it would have been tragic for me to leave my children. My two sons, fatherless they'd, be just like carolina john bottom I was very grateful that I hadn't been to carry through at it's a hell of a thing I need to
We ponder exactly what he just said and obviously the first ring of people influenced are those closest to you, but think of what the country would have been denied and you that was fifty nine years ago, so he would have missed out on fifty nine years of life. I wouldn't have these wonderful years with him. All of this history wouldn't have been share, It is kind of a I mean, while it's tragic to think about, and- and there are so many people dealing with this right now, as you say and Clinton, actually, you know has said that just talking in writing about it. So in the book, one of the things we find is his daily diary from nineteen sixty four and he had burned. I thought you burned all that burned, always other notes and he did realized. There was just one piece left:
that was the one year that he had never wanted to talk about, because it was so painful, even with me and so in going through it's the diary. He again, you know, brings back these memories, and what do you think was that helpful clint to talk about it and write about it? That's she. The salvation is if you're suffering from ptsd is what I was suffering from, not knowing It even have a name for the shellshock yeah and shell. I shall shock of what is called if you have that. The best thing you can do is find somebody you trust you have got it and whether dear wife, your best and ministry rabbi, you, priest, whoever it is teacher and discuss and talk about what it is, that Bobby the fact that the only way you're gonna get it out in the more you talk about it. The bare you're gonna feel
I talked about it first time with LISA, I talked to the warren commission. but I have never talk to anybody else, never disgusted with any even former fellow ages family members know why. I didn't want to talk about and ended up to two thousand and nine bidding and she was the one that opened the door because it we got trust her, and I could talk to her. and the more I talked and told her, what had happened in the better I feel, but think about you did along the way you held on you somehow held on and all of the stuff that you needed to talk about not all of it. But it sounds like a lot of. It was locked away in a trunk. The fact that you couldn't find the metal for bravery that
were awarded again speaks volumes to me, but the other thing Click that really strikes me is, I don't think it's uncommon for people who have gone through an experience like that. Do not want to talk about it, but you being a north dakota, a man of a certain rectitude and court Linas man, you know, You walk right up to the mirror, and you say I'm never going to talk about this. I'm not gonna write about it. You buried dutch. You buried that stuff four way somewhere deep inside, and you also put it in an old steamer trunk and that's what was getting at least the metaphors here or thick and rich and kind of important you pride, oh. and his memories. In the same way you put on a pair of rubber, gloves and pride open that trunk, started rooting around to see what came out what came out was just proof positive of her of a terrific life
It's just pretty extraordinary that you hung on that long and that you had the good sense to rethink the wisdom of the vow. You talk because, had you not done that while then, maybe you still would be at the bottom of the ocean somewhere? Very, I think you're right. My to think about all of the good things that he did, that one does in their life instead of focusing on the bad things that happen, which is what is happening with people around the world today, who are struggling with them and to just find someone who can get those memories out and in may you realize you are worthy. You are worthy. Yes, you are everyone, I know who is wrestling with this, will ultimately go back to a terrible day attend. One moment. Maybe it's in combat. May
be they saw their friends blown up, maybe a thousand different things, but you can almost always distill it to a moment through and obviously, we all know what your moment was, and so I'm saying the same thing over and over in a slightly different way, but it's just unbelievable to me that you spent fifty years not talking about it then got to the place where- that's the only thing you could talk about, and now I d one you're. Finally, at a place where a wonderful book exists, that's a tribute to everything else in your life, but that and that to me as a test. Into what can happen if you just hang on. Thank you might very well. Thank you. I agree with you that I know that I'm very far Let the right people were in the right place at the right time to hear. You got one of the right one sitting right to your right right now: she's she's! The book is my
travels with MRS Kennedy, I'm going to shamelessly hockett right now on cameroon, because it's it's amazing. I love the cover and I love the back. and I love everything in between. I think everybody else will as well chuck as their place. People can get sir? It's all the usual obvious. I believe it's everywhere. We didn't talk about it in advance, as our special place that people can get it it's out when this releases it'll be out the sadly my box, we like you to support your local book, store any bookstores. You can get it on line as well back stores if you want an autograph copy, there's only one place to get it, and that said book passage. Dot com book passage, dot com. That's our local book store and that's where we're autographs books option. I love it,
was it. That said, this come for the pictures and if you want one of these mugs, you can't have one because it's a license thing they're only like twenty of them, but you really should think LISA about getting permission because people are going to people are going to want them. It's a beautiful image. was at lisa so that your publisher said come for the pictures stay for the incredible stories right yes drew. Who now He had another book in him this is the last. Is this five or six? This is for four, me or ex fur. again. I will make the next what a pop up. I think those things gonna come back and you could do a great one where we are a guys Thank you for making time. Thank you for my coffee, mug and thanks for another terrific book. Well, thank you guys to stay well. Thank you. Thank you chuck. Thank you. Thanks guys,
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Transcript generated on 2022-10-26.