Matt is joined by The Atlantic’s Elizabeth Bruenig. They discuss J.D. Vance’s attacks on the parental status of liberal politicians and dissect what is actually happening with left-wing birth rates. They explore the policy decisions that would actually affect natality and the vibes that right-wing media focus on instead. Listen for true facts about Batman’s role as a father, Matt’s take on children’s TV, and why we should all watch Daniel Tiger. Resources:
"Invasion of the Baby-Haters" by Elizabeth Bruenig (The Atlantic; Aug 11, 2021)
"I Became a Mother at 25, and I’m Not Sorry I Didn’t Wait" by Elizabeth Bruenig (The New York Times; May 7, 2021)
One Billion Americans: The Case for Thinking Bigger by Matthew Yglesias (Penguin Random House; Sep 15, 2020)Guest:
Elizabeth Bruenig (@ebruenig), staff writer, The AtlanticHost:
Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias), Slowboring.comCredits:
Ness Smith-Savedoff, Producer & Engineer
Erikk Geannikis, Producer, Talk Podcasts
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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welcome to the absent bucks media attest network. I met him place. Yes, my guest today Elizabeth Renege is notorious internet personality as well as staff writer at the Atlantic, and we were gonna talk about babies because there
has been a rising tide of condemnation of the childless left,
from GDP and said, and some others out there. You are on the left, but not childless, that's correct I have to.
Kids- and I am on the last day I dont know about their politics- have asked. I have only one
kid, and I'm not as far to the left, but you know. Similarly, I guess that's you know of ranging that spectrum there
But what like? What is this narrative tat you written about recently for the Atlantic, the condemnation of
Childless left, seems to kind of role together. A couple of things
On the one hand, it's an observation.
seen in this was what jade events made an observation that quite a few of the left.
The young stars in politics in he pointed out in particular Alexandria
Theo, Cortez Ale, see PETE Buddha Judge, Corey Booker, he also cited camel
Harris. Although I wouldn't a surgical, her a young stars to sort of star star these people, he said, don't have the children of Kemal Harris does have stepchildren it's worth, pointing out that she is very close to bites. He said these people, therefore, don't have a stake in the future. They just seemed content too.
screw around in politics, because they don't really care what happens to the country. Only people who have children have a stake in the future. Jamie Van said, therefore, people who have kids should be given votes to use on behalf of their children, which is interesting because it seems like he really think that went through. That was hugely favour. Democrats
younger people are the people who have minor children. Older vote.
who's who skew republican their children are already adults. Younger voters who.
You left are the ones who have minor children, also poorer people whose skew left are, though
those who have more children,
at any rate, that was his argument,
and then it also people sort of added on for him as the critique sort of
lead on line that leftists have rid
pieces in various publication sort of anger sting about whether they can ethically justified.
Having children when there is climate change
happening and so on and so forth in there all these rules,
It left a site for not wanting to have children ethically in this day and age. Yes, I want to put a pin and that sort of left wing anti NATO is, I think, the point about the actual like mechanics
Some giving extra votes to parents of young children idea is worth
dwelling on because I think it's both true way, if you like, put all the variables in two years to disco machine like conservatives, have more children than liberals or have we want people on the right have more children than people on the left there more religious they get married younger. They have children younger. But if you take the other kind- and you just say what is the population of parents of current children under eighteen, it's like if you're sixty, it's very unlikely that you have five year old at home
de cohort of parents is people my age, its people, your age, its people, maybe a little bit older or younger than us, and that is a different graphic group that you know tilts pretty strongly towards demo.
Adds, even though its true that, like the conservatives within that cohort, have larger family is so, I think,
doesn't make sense as like a policy proposal
as a way to sort of as as a knock on
Harrison and see. I guess peat and chest
since we book the show have announced that they have become parents and they do not fill us and with the with the full details there. But
If it, it seemed to me, was just as subtext of sort of denigrating. You know non traditional family structures. Frightened me, like, I think Harris does consider herself someone
has children. The booty judges are reproducing through one of several mechanisms that are
able to gay couples. These things sort of happened in life right, but you know it's a cultural conservative politics of you know you should be like Josh right, and so I think that
all likelihood what's really going on. There is not a particular condemnation of these politicians for not having a stake in the future, because plenty of people who have children seem pretty indifferent to the fear, especially when it comes to the sort of forward pitched ideas about climate change, etc. Its moral
They serve cultural distaste for the people who are imagine to be delayed.
Or putting off having kids altogether so think,
bout, Lena Dunham, etc, dog mommy's and the sort of millennial, urban, social, Joe.
on wine, liberal voting
not at all invested in the sword,
traditional family life, tight,
and that you can imagine JD vans and other folks being really really really annoyed by on the cultural level, because on almost every other access, their peers, they're all key
judge, educated there in this same echelon of income. These people are shoulder to shoulder cheek by jowl, data advances, Isla grad, etc, etc. So you can imagine he's in very close contact with these
its people, and you can imagine there is a lot of axed that arises and friction
It arises from the more conservative quarters in that class and the more leftist liberal quarters in that
glass. You I mean you, you do see a real kind of difference of people's lifestyles and when we were talking before the show about view moved the suburbs recently and you're happy out there. I have been in the suburbs of the past few weeks, article
in laws visit I've really miss my urban neighbourhoods. I have one child not too, and not three or four, and it is
Definitely true that the more kids you have
more. It makes sense to prioritize space, the acquisition of of land verses proximity to cultural amenity is, and I grew up in New York, city and granted village. I am living with the child a Logan circle, but there is a trader affright between like you want to live in the branch district versus like you want to maximize jarred space, and there is a correlation between people.
Was political views and especially when people get more affluent right and like you can choose to self actual eyes, but it still constrain choice. Sat and you know some people choose certain things
Others choose others, and there is something about like what we valorize in our culture
media and I had a lot of content- is produced by the kind of people,
who live in city is who start families later and who have smaller families yeah? It is
true that there was a period in our culture where these are sacrifices and burdens
also, joys and pleasures of family life or centre stage, culturally and parents could look at the media
any time and see the things they were going through, reflected back at them very clearly. These were in all this is contrary to all in the
family and married with children, etc, etc. And now it's much more typical to look at television and culture,
production and sees heard a single people, young people, unmarried people or people for whom, having
children or raising children is just not part of the conversation at all, see? Think of us or prestige, television, like euphoria or even sort of I came and think of what is anti,
v right now in terms of sitcoms, because I don't have time to baby. I feel like our big cultural. I times
delaying starting a family because they need to pursue their career in super heroism. Can we haven't really seen people struggling with the balancing work and family and that in the danaus battling
industry it right exactly like marble, like I mean, can black widow have a child when she's a spider, yeah it's just too
with all the explosions multi colored explosions. It happened in Ireland and being wonder woman. I that's difficult shrank back. Batman has no kids right. No bad men has three kids, at least possibly for pardon you way where he legally adopt
dick Grayson. Thank you very much. Read your father's day. Issues and also definitely legally adopts TIM Break as his parents die. Thank you and Jason Todd I'll get rid of. This is like a comma situation. Yet, while you
sport, but then Damien they're, not his natural John Damien Wayne, is actually his biological child tally algal powder. Obviously that's important. So bad man is the pro family superhero. We haven't seen this
movies that are now because yeah, because in the films that man is an urban dwelling kind of
A boy who whose of interest primarily because he's like a solitary lonely figure and his sort of this dark side of that lifestyle, but I do think it's become increase,
leader, difficult culturally. To imagine some one- and this is a pet peeve of mine
I admit, is or silly and ridiculous, but in culture it's difficult to imagine some
whose interesting and sort of has a textured deep
serious in our world who also has children, those kinds of-
oceans and feelings, and thought seem reserved for people who have
or serious lives which our lives without children and because children do bring a certain amount of levity to a life, and it is still possible even as a woman,
to have a very serious, very, very deep in her life with children. You just don't see that depicted very much right. But then you don't then at separate question. Right is quite policy. In theory, we are talking about a guy who's running for the United States Senate,
and you could try to do things to make it easier for people to have children to address. You know some of the people have a lot of practical concerns about having children that are not just about you
what succumbs are going to be on television and the idea of something like a larger child tax credit, or you know, various investments in education or children's health care. Things like that, or to try to make it easier to do things like that, and that is not, I think, we're the Republican Party has been going right.
And so I wrote a piece when Vance US from commentary on the childless left came out of because
The response from the left was just sort of that. This is fascist and racist, and I had written a piece to
We wind a bit too may in the New York Times when I still work there for mothers day about having kids young those twenty five when my first baby was born and that I liked it that it was fun. It surprised me that it made me happy in that it would help me kind of become who I am I supposed to hindering misheard development of an identity.
And the people got really pissed off about it, and that meant a lot more to
I will lead sites than it did to me. People getting really pissed off about
thing that I do or say or right is, is a given its twitter. That's what p
do on their. They go on there to get mad a lot of its cave fave it lot of it is,
they just a residual passiveness from twenty? Sixteen, the sort of burning
Hillary fights- and so I don't really think anything of it. But when I wrote the peace
and I wrote about eighty Vance saying this is ridiculous. Hook hairs about the cultural, the obnoxious or non of noxious notice of that
I was laughter whoever's hurting your feelings or whatever on the childless left, the reality
is. There are actual policy questions here and on policy the left is killing it there. It the Biden, child tax credit, the
bandit non phased in child tax credit is a real gift to parents. That is honestly pro natal quote: unquote, not that it necessarily encourages people to have kids but
you're in the market to have kids. It certainly takes a load off right and making it permanent
would be a huge deal, I mean
would be a major gift to children, and this is the case
point I made and then the critics
from the right wing. After that peace was publishes. How can you say this when the left was so mean to you about your piece about enjoying
their hood and my response was: I just don't care what people stay about the cultural inflection, the aesthetics of it, I suppose, because on the politics aesthetics, whatever the left is absolutely the pro child side of things. Let's cigarette and talk about that policy, stuff.
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who, like Jd Vance, is also backed by Peter Tee, all an actual former business partner, as in Arizona bread masters. He he said in response to it,
peace. He dragged me into the argument because I wrote a book saying explicitly:
that we should change our public policy in ways that support people having more children- and you know his argument was like well, you know aid these like hollow left.
Psyche Iglesias, Embrued egg, like Wanna, make this all about policy, but like the real thing that matters I'm putting words, I I've been calling him
equally, but I mean you know he was trying to say that, like what really
matters is the vibes right that we all need to kind of like hold hands and talk about how motherhood and apple pie are really great and how like urban leftists
kids are bad people, and you know it's interesting to me. I've been because both like disappearing classic divide in politics, about emphasis
material verses, kind of aviation, all conditions, but also good
has been so much whining. I think from the right over the past five to ten years ago,
political correctness and safe spaces and all kinds of things like that, and that's essentially the call here right the view.
Who is that you know a mirror
is reproducing population like need some kind of safe space from internet haters. There like the problem,
society is that, like somebody might be having branch in
Wait. Thirty is, would yo kids living in a big city thinking that they are cooler than somebody with three kids and I feel about
the way conservatives feel about this and other contacts that it's like you can't live your life in terror that
he's somewhere disagrees with you
like I, don't know these millions of people in this country like grieved, to just going to do things right, the heart,
here. Elite, the existential terror is that people who are in your same class, who are similarly educated, because this is all in intra class fight. This is all taking place,
The professional managerial class people in your class are like hot and fit and living in co
places doing cool stuff, being cool, producing cold,
and they're looking down their noses at you and you're like getting fat and
haggard and being forced to watch a blip b and getting your ass dragged, the bronze
soon or whatever, or
the National Zoo in your case, for the ten thousand time, while these cool
bull, go to branch and have cool little cocktails and laugh at you too, which
say like yeah, but who gives a rat's ass. I have another up
a blip you to watch. Unfortunately, have you got my
and, like I understand that the.
vibes matter. I mean unfortunately, vibes doom
and this is a thing that the right and left agree upon, whether they.
like it or not. So the pulling down of statues, for instance, is an area where the vibes,
are clearly mattering. That's a vibes issue show if we pull down the confederate statues, and then we just like put
new statues of nuclear fission?
it's like mom dad and three kids just chilling yeah discipline,
by huge Gaia statue like a big pregnant lady,
and you know maybe that'll do it. I don't know, but about like I agree, but like a statue of Daniel Tiger, I didn't you know a good message so tired. That's it!
so everyone could use a little Daniel Tiger right. Can we all sort of support
That's right. I always thank, you, know, went tweeting about Daniel TIGERS, Sir advice.
can I went when you feeling man? What do you do with the man? You feel I think, about fleeting genetic
Well, don't weak repair shop,
ass well, but you know vibes matter and the way that people feel you know it does.
Matter. The problem is its very hard to politically manage that. If all you want to do police
Italy is make people who don't like you unhappy. We just had for years of that that was sort of the primary goal of
our presidency was owning the lives making them cry, etc. We had for years of that being the high
political goal, people got what they wanted and there still miserable right, and so that's a very bad role.
To go down, you can get all that you want. Your political opponents can be unhappy, you can.
them. You can make them cry. You can make the panic, but if the underworld
in policy is no good. You will see
he'll be miserable, you will still be screwed right ultimate
What we need is good, stable policy and the
I am as something that really can't be managed through policy politicians. Can
in the business of managing the vibes wine.
and argue that genuine some level, the vibes are lagging indicator of the material
culture, where you log in my language, what you know, if you send them
tax credit and you like, improve the website, and you know get more people signed up in you. You know have some
provision for schooling for three and four year olds,
if you change House
policies of the different places become more affordable. You don't people have more
ITALY, more children as a result of that and businesses respond to the right like there are more family friendly restaurants,
if there are more young children are out like that, becomes a market worth catering to and then that can change people's perception of like what do? I need to give up by what it costs to my lifestyle? It just becomes more normative for people to have children which changes the culture and then there's other aspects of culture. Debt like you can't.
change the policy because they could differences were parents. Now when we were kids, there was no streaming video right. So if you wanted to make content that would like appeal to parents and
threaten you can't I had to try to like
the needle and make alike light called family friendly, show,
now, Netflix can like Hyper target ride, so it's like by six year old, loves diner trucks which, like I, would rather die but, like the whole point of tv, is, do like enter tame him during,
times when, like we're busy, so it doesn't matter ride like it's. The grown up. Culture can be very grown up because the stuff for kids is like so intense and I'd like to
that's good in a lot of ways like if I could somehow make us all go back to like primitive,
the television channels. This is like my most reactionary view
but like also, I have no way to make that happen ready. So that's like just me sitting here whining right. I mean, I think, that it's fun
that MR masters and so forth were fussy about your and my comments
carry on children in particular because as culture producers as riders
already doing the thing that I think is actually the most useful in vibe modification terms, which is just being people who are willing to talk in public about being happy with children. Not enough have Salute Lee,
rule and vicious way. I certainly dont think having children's for everyone, I dont think people should be forced. I think there are lots of people who live very happy lives and they don't have their own children, maybe they're step parents, maybe they're adopted,
maybe there a happy onto uncle or maybe they're the person whose just how
here on their own, like a bad man, your training, a series of young boys up the ground,
like your training, you're fighting crime, you adopt every orphan and got them who looks like you for some reason. You know all kinds of people right, you're mutant,
spider human who lives with your elderly. Aren't you know people have different life pats and I think that's great, but the best thing
Who can do vibes wise if they want to make a culture that friendlier to parents- and I dont think it's all that bad by the way
think vans and masters are really miss diagnosing how severe it is. Certainly not like you walk down the street with stroller and get egged. That's not the case at all, so
Really really don't want to overstate the problem, but in these times,
Little enclaves of kind of left profession
managerial class folks where it is maybe a touch cooler on the warm
full scale in terms of young parenthood, especially, are parenthood as a goal. You know the best thing.
can do. Is just talk about being
be in having kids, and you know me
people where they are answer their questions, talk about it and just kind of lead by example having this was an interesting thing about your other peace that you
Did you read, as you basically wrote, for mothers day about,
your first child at what is roughly the national average age
is unusually young for like a New York Times writer
and that was sort of, like the whole tension of their discourse, that ride like its both like not that unusual but is sort of locally unusual right, and I think you did not propound like an explicit thesis, but there was an implication that, like maybe other young college graduates, should rethink their assumption, that this is something you have to wait,
years out of school, to go do right, I mean, I think, that's like why the peace was seen as provocative, because
I don't know. I mean people, don't just read thing says like fakirs one person just talking about her life now and I think that's exactly
What I was saying- and it is pretty up front about it- was just there is a kind of presumption is best
among people who, like myself, go to college, go to grad school are gonna, get sort of professional class jobs dad you need to put off having kids, because its
good job right, where you need experience and you need to
highly highly prepared and have a kind of expertise
There are certain things that, if you dont accomplish them before having a child, you'll never accomplish them and all
meant to say as well. If you're on the fence and you'd like to have a child, maybe you're thinking about it or do you think it would make you happy or something you want to do, but you feel like you're, just a bit early and
you're waiting out of a sense of obligation. You don't ask
have to wait. There are things that you can still accomplice
after you have a child. It's ok, you life.
on you're still alive, you still changing and growing, and it still totally possible and completely within your reach, to continue accomplishing things and growing
person. I just relates to right. There's this. This idea of like capstone versus cornerstone, marriage right
and this is you know I mean I have been a typical, highly educated city dwelling profession,
with something more like a capstone marriage,
you go. You leave school, you get a job, you do a couple jobs. You establish sort of clarity that like this is what you are doing and then, from that standpoint you get married
God, you other things verses, a more traditional vision, which is like very young people would get married, and then you like, build your whole life together. You know and that's a cultural tension that, where navigating in Amerika
society, and why do you think you know? I mean the switch to the sort of capstone mindset has not necessarily turned out that well for society as a whole
that sort of an ongoing debate?
get married and it's kind of the beginning.
becoming an adult, or is it kind of the inn
if your maturation process- and you know
arguments for doing it either way. I can only speak from the way I did it. I got married relatively young us
Ninety three and
I also married a policy Matt JOR yeah, it's what everyone should do. It should be
policy mad in every house, age, opprobrium, others of those like a high supply of guys. They met in a particular birth cohort yeah who do
Hungary, but no more, you know it's like. I look on the playground did, unlike other any kids, they met me more and it's it's done peopled. Unlike our tweets, it's over the maps are shifting
So I married my high school sweetheart, it's we ve been together since he was eighteen. I was sixteen. We got married minus twenty three because that's when he finished law school, when I finish grad school and that had been our deal so we got married Nicole,
house, and then you know by twenty five. We had a baby and that worked really well for us. You know we supported each other
and we had known each other a really long time and been together a really long time
We were ready to set up house and work together very very
fastidiously it to account.
what we knew we wanted and needed to
published together as a household is the right thing:
everybody again I mean that's being
in thing about trying to make pronouncements about culture is Ino. Obviously there are going to be quite a lot of people who benefit from doing things in a very different way, so I find it difficult to kind of prescribe
a life path. Yeah I mean, I think, if anyone out there listen to the weeds earlier this week about some growth of masters, degrees and sort of credentials
stuff in in the space of meat. That is a policy area where you know I do think we should think about the consequences of like taking on more and more years of expected schooling for people, the sort of get good jobs. You know it changes whole life path. Sometimes I mean not always you that's many degrees. Ok, let's go again. I want to talk about policy sort of left wing, antenatal ism
It feels like you, don't even of hours in the day to get everything done, might because you're missing out on three of them were those to me. I was up how he fell into a deep dark abyss that opens up one switch between workers at those
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order by going to wind, not calm, Slash Spotify terms apply, so this was the thing that that some conservative said you weren't wrestling worth talking about, which is that something I definitely discovered when I was out promoting one
Americans is that there is a big constituency of people, I would say not like democratic party politicians.
Or the heads of major progressive groups, but just like people who will say that, like it's bad to have children because of their in
mental impact- and you know these columns get written about twice a year in each leg-
in stream and centre left publication. I think at some british group like gave a prize to one of their princes for me
might have seen too many children or something like that. So, like this
a real idea right that
in our moment of ecological crisis. It
selfish to have children,
These sort of wise high minded thing to do is to not do that and I don't know
nobody has like passed a law inspired by. Like you know, let's not
kids, but it is a real argument. That's out there that's different from just sort of like what's cool and what is it right
yes, I mean there are definitely policy people.
was that float around on the left. That would be problematic for parents.
There are the sort of incendiary ones that fly out like you said once or twice a year, somebody rights,
call em in the guardian or whatever that's about rewarding people for having fewer children, or I think there was a documentary about. There was a surgeon who serve travelled the world, giving free, VA sector means and
Even paying men to receive the sector means in developing countries.
which is really sack, bites yeah. There are leftist policies that would say
We should pay or reward people to be sterilised. You see those proposals
periodically. I find that pretty bizarre,
Eddie reprehensible, especially when we're talking about developing countries in particular,
seems very, very his helmet to me
and then you see, I think,
that are not so obviously antenatal list, but would still make like a little harder for parents. So
You sometimes see policies, for instance, that would eliminate.
rental leave but would create all purpose family leave, which you could take to
air for elderly family members,
blessings, etc, etc, which would just kind of sir
as you know, any any familial obligation will be met by taking this leave as to where
as apparent, I would rather have a pool of protected leave for parental obligations of maternity leave.
And then other leave to be taken for dealing with other issues, vacation sick leave, whatever some kind of thing can be cobbled together, but I do think
that parental leave as it is a special and very particular thing. It's a special and very particular obligation, and
oh, you know, you do see those kinds of policies. What I will say about them is, I just don't ever see them get
traction whatsoever from actually existing politicians, so they get thrown out the guardian
they get bad it around a between journalists. They just seem like expressions of exasperations right. Just like J T V,
swill express exasperation with politics by
I'm tired of the child was left. These politicians have no stake in the future. Let's give votes.
Everyone who has children one vote for child. It goes to the parents with the implications
We can then vote out these childless politicians. You get expressions of exasperate
with the child, the full from the childless and those come out.
This climate changes the fault of all these breeders. We need to disempowered
numbers stop them somehow. Let's disincentive eyes
having children or incentivize, not having children with these blah blah blah programmes.
never seem to actually pick up any kind of steam in politics
Well and conversely, I mean I think you would be great if republicans decided, they need to get behind a national pay. Parental leave.
plan to like head off. You know the childless left, devious
leave the agenda, or something like that. You know so we go
right. I mean it's like the entire universe of proposals to give anyone leave under any circumstances, for anything like exists
within a democratic party ambit. So you then have like different flavors of leave debating against each other. You don't want what I always think is interesting.
regard. Is that you'd never see a proposal to
means TEST K, twelve education, which are
would be the most straightforward
The anti made a list sort of policy that is out there
Where you could say look we are protecting the most vulnerable children, but we don't need Mattie. Glaziers just
and in his kid to frequent public school and paying no money for it. You know this extra, like I can afford to pay to mission. Is you may be
well? You know the way that we means Tass lots and lots of other programmes, and you know the downside to means testing a public school is that it would make it. I think much
less likely that sort of abnormal middle class people would
as many children as they have of, because you know yes, you can afford it, but, like you wouldn't want to like bearing those costs, would be a strain on everyone
but nobody says that right, like even like Democrats who love means testing, you know it's a status
by a thing, but no one is
looking at it and being
here, we go subsidizing all these children
live in higher mahogany. I've gone high school, do in theirs,
words and learning to read its second non starter in the universe. When, if you were
Syria swayed. If you wanted to take this climate Duma resume seriously like that's what you should do, and I don't know
don't cry tat, so I want to give people any ideas, but at the same time,
that's what I would do. If I wanted to discourage people from having children without increasing poverty, I would say we gotta means test the middle schools. Yes and I
thank you, do periodically see it'll just to bring it back,
social media, someone grumbling along the lines of. Why do I have to pay taxes that support public schools when I dont have children and the response
is inevitably shut up idiot from the left, because the left,
is so interested in having programme
that rely on a relatively large taxpayers, whether or not the particular individual is using the programme or using it as much as others will use it, etc, etc. So I think that's just and
starter of an argument means testing schools,
On the left, for so many reasons, I also think- and
there's something else that I brought up and my peace. So
many of the people on the childless left are only child was temporarily. It's that delaying left really, I dont know, if
oh see or Corey Booker will ever have children, but I wouldn't
this money on them, never having kids, Elsie and
there are still very young and Buddha Judge, as you said, since jade events made, his comments has announced that he
His husband will be raising a child,
call Harris again is very close to her step children.
her husband, but I would not be surprised at all.
If a sea went on to have killed,
Ill Hano MAR does have a daughter by the way. Thank you very much
surprising that she typically the bit Anwar of the right- was not mentioned in this particular case,
any time you're dealing with someone in their thirties, even there
amid thirties. It's just very likely to
that person will have children just statistically most people have kids way. Why
meaning Elsie is, is to the point where it, because this is the sort of I think, like the real cultural divide in America, is that I hear
bout, a story, one year old woman,
living in New York whose very sick
ass well in her career and does not
to me. That's both like normal. It's like socio, culturally normal locally, and also I doesn't.
Bleed meet any strong conclusions that, like she won't be childless, like it
be unusual for someone like, among other things, it seems like being a member of Congress is like not a great joy
two pair with parenting. There is a lot of shuttling back and forth
necessarily involved in that work. So it doesn't like surprise,
me to see something like that, and yet it is normal for residents of veto college educated residents of big cities
to have kids in their late thirty its, but they do want of having fewer children
sort of his as a result of that kind of thing, but that's really where the power
stuff. I think matters the most because
willing unlikely to me that you're gonna go from being alike. I dont want kids in my life. This does not interest me too, like yes, I want to be the mother of three based on a tax credit.
like micro decisions about timing. Like am I ready
do this now that does depend largely on getting money like that's exactly the kind of thing that people think about right. They look at borders
sister Wendy bigger place. How many hours do we need to put in at work? What is the cost of child care and that
margin of reality is where policy makes the difference right. I agree completely, and it is
very much a matter of child care. So when
Young end of work is really really critical. You dont have the level of experience. You're, probably not a manager, you can't
call your own shots at work. Having stable child care, that's affordable means
you're certain that you will be able to go back to work so a guaranteed Lee
is built in and then a guarantee
subsidized or free child care, preferably is a huge difference. Rights obesity
kinds of programmes that I really dream about for parents they wouldn't push
we want to have children and, like you said they're not going to, I think, inculcate the desire for a Romney sized family
to your average in New York LIVE role, but they might make
having kids at no time.
eight twenty nine thirty much more palatable to
this sort of urban dwelling millennial men S. Then Heaven
feeling the need to wait until thirty, five, thirty six, thirty seven and
The abc note, I also just want to add I hate to speculate on the
like it so slimy to speculate on why someone is or isn't waiting or Wheeler won't have children that you sort of never know what somebody's going through it
struggling whether dealing with- and I am sorry that she got dragged into this whole speculative spectacle by
ants and I'm sorry for participating in it. But you know that's the politics we have right now, but the
he's dead on the margins, these kinds of policies they seem small, but their huge difference to parents as to where
the vibes, seem really big and appear to be very dramatic
because there are emotionally very impact for, but I'm not sure
the end of the day that they are more powerful than those serious
calculations people make sitting at the table at night. When their thinking about having a kid can we afford this right? Is it? Is it even feasible those
real questions. I wouldn't you say you don't mind. My personal life has been like cartoonish early in the liberal bubble. Like I grew up in New York, my dad works.
Hollywood? My mom was a journalist. I moved to see
You know I'm like main line in this kind of like urban Progressive Culture day in day out my whole life. I've been in
as rural exert any part of Texas. You know for a while
I shall now doing remote staff taken me. Take my kid to visit his grandparents, and one thing that has really struck
Me is that there is some.
much more insulation from the liberal vibes out here,
Then the republican Party politicians, who represent these areas like to say there is like for better works. You know, but like walking around
her veil, the only virtue signalling that you see anybody do is like puttin up Bible quotes on their walls or erecting a giant, crucifixes and hills in various places, and it's not.
I think that people in the heartland are like besieged by left wing.
Hold me aims and less like onto
Her nurse like want to follow them
you can do like microwave re collection and like make people feel like
these urban liberals are like constantly shitting on you or something. But it's not really true.
everyone is just pretty. I dunno people just live their lives.
I mean I grew up in North Texas and they just spent last weekend with my folks actually and they see no sort of clips on Fox when there is a particularly
the bomb section of that. You know of something you know when
they really outrageous would happen on girls that might wind up on Fox etc, but is also the case that people outside of these kind of metro poles are also totally confident in their way of life and views.
It doesn't really hurt them to see what's going on in the Metropole, so I don't know
awareness, but what does it matter? It's it's not as devastating. I think, as one might conclude from reading,
wheats? But I've been. I guess you don't. You do you're to your point, my legs, a fox, and this again it's like the main way that I have seen him. You know people interacting with like progressive cultural values here is that Tucker Karlsson will clip them. Then package them as very alarming and then tell people about all this terrible.
That's happening and that's a good business for him. I guess he's very successful television host, but it's
if you want to know like who makes people feel besieged by their cultural enemy, is it's like their friends doing it?
for profit, and I mean- and I am sure that something of the same vein, as happens in the blue zones, you I used to work in progress and a big thing. We would do there. Is
unlike the most insane thing of Republicans
legislator said that day and there, like thousands of state legislatures in America
and some of them are saying something very insane,
any given day and like you, can pick that up and broadcast to the world
and for a while it was a good traffic generation strategy, but I just feel
makes everyone feel like angrier than that need to be yeah Amy. I think
again in my he's part of what I was trying to gift to the world:
my personal feeling that sort of your choice,
whether you wanna be pissed off I and feel,
besieged and out of control or not-
just because someone says the day
looked down on you and that's your problem or whatever just
because everybody gets mad about your mother's day, peas and calls you a fascist or attract Cath or whatever its
completely within your control, whether you're going to care at the end the day it is people being mad,
and they'll be mad about something else. Tomorrow I alluded to this.
Four, but I really do feel that watching during Tiger with, with my kid taught me some valuable,
since about emotional control, and you know when you feel so mad that you want a roar, you can take a deep breath and counter for and adult focused media. Like does not tended to that message, read like to try.
To convince people that a good thing to do in your life is to be really
they had all the time at everybody? Am I mean, I think, a personal growth for me as a pair
it has been trying to think more seriously about what sort of advice you want to give like a tiny person. Grubbing up at my way
behavior. Do you want to model for them? And it just like seems very clear. It's like you, try to get a raise kids to be calmer than they naturally are about things right that my kids are always getting upset about different stuff, but like yeah. It's not bad but like gross is about trying to
throw yourself and have a little bit of points in these situations.
but on social media we have grown ups, doing tantrums and convincing themselves that it's like high politics,
and that its normal or acceptable I mean, I think, about twitter as like being at the grocery store. So, like you can make Joe
looks and be silly like. You could talk to a friend and be silly and make jokes at the grocery store. But when people are absolutely freaking out- and you know,
adding slurs and condemnations and making threats and so forth. That is just totally buzz,
our behaviour to me, but I tell my daughter, my five year old is ill
actions are really big and
really strong, but your intellect
your rational mind. Your thoughts are actually correct.
and your emotions are often times totally wrong and they don't call
spawned to reality at all, so you can feel
really big anger about something, really small and you just
I use your mind
it's your behavior. Nor did, I think, I think, that's exactly right,
That is the message that american society needs to hear. I'm just gonna put it in my twitter, bile you're, feeling
wrong you're a big kid now, America, its side to get a grip on. So, thank you so much thanks as always.
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Transcript generated on 2021-09-05.