Shortly after the inauguration ceremonies ended, Ezra, Matt, and Sarah gathered to analyze what it all means in the first Trump-era Weeds episode.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The following. Podcast contains explicit language while the Mitchell our day off, hooray Hello I come to another blow to the weeds boxes. Policy pod cast an apparently network. I my Matthew, glaziers with my colleagues here cliff and as recline as usual, coming to you from the first pod cast of dollar trumps America, American, Such a special edition particle acquiring new generation in the city of Washington is in a bit of a guess
our state of car media, that it does not know carnage she as well that occurred at the time we're talking. There is right gas on the streets, it isn't huge protest, but I believe that a hundred people have been arrested. There were a couple of injuries, including among police, who were hit by things. People were throwing there's some tear guessing some new stands, but on fire you miss, unbroken windows but is also a presidential inauguration today heard about that hasn't blessings were connected. I should say: oh yes right, they were actually protesting at the new, the new president, Amazon His name is down from the former realistic who is unlikely rise to the presidency has been Let me give some previous discussions on the weeds broadcaster go back and listen so did you guys think of Bee inaugural address here? I have a lot of thoughts. Donald Trump is often characterized in terms of his lack of discipline.
This speech, though, was like in some ways the opposite of that right. there was a Donald Trump theory of the election, which was that you could get white working class Northerners to vote for the Republican Party in a larger numbers than had been a case traditionally if Donald Trump distanced himself from the nutritional republican Party. And strongly emphasised themes of american economic Nationalism and law and law and order that theory. It prove true in a particular way. The fact the trumpet lost the popular vote makes it flight doubly true. I think. Sometimes you hear these things that eyeball, because from wine like he has his finger on the pulse of the american people and stuff, but that's all
He lost the puppet of any lesser quite badly, but that actually shows how well done the demographic targeting. What swayed there was a crucial constituency, people, white working class people in the midwest who really really really like this message and who I think democrats- may have even forgotten how many develops of that message they used to put into their kinds of speeches and were not prepared to be sort of like out anti outsourced, the way that they were by Trump, and he just like stuck. Right. I mean it was like if he was give a rally in Michigan the week before the election. This is what he would have said. And he's being inaugurated and it's what he said righty was like cisely on target for the Trump theory of the electorate there, a lot of other things you could have conceivably try.
Do with inauguration and he didn't try, but there's this group of people who put him in the White House and he delivered a message right for that. What did you think about Sarkozy? He didn't he did and talk about? It I'm a care he didn't do anything to reach out to people who are potentially unnerved by him he's doing, is very low. Providing the quotas are taken on that piece of it I'm surprised at how restrained it felt like met was saying that I think we ve got like you select Trump going off the rails a little bit and it felt like inauguration. I could have. I heard it would not have felt crazy to me to hear someone else give this integration. But it sounds like you disagree with me. So real Indonesia is where things at felt. wait. Familiar about it to me was that the rhetoric of this speech does not line up with them. Where things our policy wise, and I think that that is kind of like how we think about the fact Obamacare was there at all and in a way like thoughts from
that a lot of times I feel like anything, doesn't like matter about Dillon. abuse for are upset about today, that there are often in a lot of the Trump Roderick just does not match up in any sort of semblance to the actual policies that pursuing so in his integration today he talked a lot about returning wealth. People and ITALY improving the country, but when you look at his actual policies like what we see in weight, Housetop Gov. So far, it's quite different and it felt like this was quite different from his again and again said o volunteers, echoing number one domestic priority like made this point so clearly and in this speech there that was nowhere to be There was no discussion at all of it and that's all because I really familiar to me as a policy reporter in the Trump era, like a really big disconnect between what comes up and The dresses like what is actually happening like in the policy,
those who does put out in like the actual world of legislating that they seem, Don't you totally separate people a running to totally separate theories? government and strategies of legislating in that way. You you and I were talking earlier today about a bill. You ve all live in peace. published at the national or view about the Obamacare Fightin and not did not to dive. Obamacare here, but he is interesting thing where he talks about the difference between what trumpets Saint publicly and then what his stout where's your doing privately, and he says- and I make this wrong for memory. His chum Staff is cutting a very different figure than Donald Trump himself in an apparently be the idea. Among a lot of reports, right now is to sort of ignore A trumpet saying and just assume at his staff is really riches liking. Their easy re making the oak I mean, but let me make one more point on the speech before before go into that this was a very dark speech. This was a very midnight in America speech.
and I will say that one- I was surprised how little effort was made to reach out at all. I said this- I don't ever sit on the podcast before I don't think it would be difficult for trump to be at a much higher approval rating right now, I don't think would have been difficult for him to have a couple of paragraphs in the speech that would have been friendlier. to the folks who are concerned, about his inauguration. I think the bar for him to reach out right now is very low and he did not take it. The other is that I often find trump at his least effective when he is at its most scripted. Innocent and speeches. Bad is populist in an interesting way, but it was is without trumps. Carnival atmosphere without his he's very funny, very good on the stump. He's got a really good extemporaneous style. He he is able to lighten a very dark speech but he did in his rallies. Wise rallies were funded, go do his interesting when he's doing that and when you
all that stuff. Out of this happen, I thought it is convention to and his convention did not end up holding particularly well. It's not that I think the speech is going to be some kind of public disaster. I don't think by any means disaster born you several trump from his sort of idiosyncratic reality. Television show dimension and it's just his incredibly grim vision of the state of the country I find it Very heavy I'll be curious to see if it's something that works on people in a broader sense. Jimmy was interesting. Is you know all politicians, I think president's especially have a certain amount of do of labour in their administration, where there is one group of people who works on speeches, and there is another group of people who works on like talking to members of Congress about what's up
and Trump seems really committed to the idea that those universes can proceed really, I'm like totally totally separate tracks and to give him like some credit where, due on that, I do think it's true that if you look with like an adequately you know cold, I add the Obama administration or congressional Democrats. You often see this thing that they try to do where there's a provision in- or I shouldn't even say it's a parisian, but in the corporate income tax code business can deduct expensive sprite for forming
and the cost of doing business. So one way you might incur expenses is, if you close down a factory and relocate production to another country, there would be some expenses associated with closing that factory down. So companies did at that from the tax bill either way they were deduct. Any other kind of expense democrats have for as long as I have been involved in politics characterize this as tax breaks for companies that ship, jobs overseas, which is, I think, a pretty abusive characterisation of of what's going on, and then they ve hung on that characterisation. Like a lot of a lot of rhetoric, you know I work today about a foot, Bravo Obama's, GINO, inclusive vision of Amerika, and I went back and I was we reading his is two thousand for conventional. Which I think is mostly dedicated to articulating Barack Obama's inclusive vision of America. But there is this.
a thing in their about tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas, which was like a constant refrain of John, carries campaign of congressional Democrats in two thousand and six as it turns out. When Democrats, had the majority here for two years. They somehow seem to have not gotten rid of these tax breaks. Perhaps to have something that Obama could again talk about once Republicans to Congress. but like if he really really really wanted to close this very minor loophole ride like if you, if you really believe that, like the key to rebuilding american industry, was eliminating this possibility from the corporate income tax called, you could have found a bargain with Paul Ryan about, but like he didn't write, in this way is a real thing, but Democrats have been bullshitting about for like a long time, but they,
in this weird democratic kind of way they ve been totally bullshitting about it, but also really really insistent on maintaining the policy provisions right, and I think that the Trump proposition is. I got what, if you went beyond rightly who, in the world even understands the relationship between that rhetoric about company ship jobs overseas and corporate income tax accounting right like why not just lie like if you're gonna be dishonest, like. Why not just lie, and I think that like Trump has always gotten really far in life by lying to people, it's been like integral to his. His business process has been too like, say: he's gonna pay you for this, and then he doesn't. I think it could work. You know if you have a credible legislative affair staff who Paul Ryan and other people
Will you don't believe those guys? Your speeches can just say something else what Simon make case against lying one from the very controversial, but I think it's something like this is the point where it catches up to you They get said someone you to start actually Legislating and like this has become like a clear to me. Like the Healthcare Smith, Donald Trump spent an entire campaign talking about how cover everybody. How he's not gonna? Let anyone die in the street and people at least the trumpeters. I talked to daily voted on that they thought that was true. They thought that was Donald Trump healthcare plan, they use Obamacare and they expected him to come up with something that was going to be just as comprehensive, even if not more which is bore actually no resemblance to his campaign proposal. Like a, I think, it's some point in the leg. It feels it we're getting to that point. Right now is when The lying actually catches up with you when you have to pass laws and propose proposals that will really show kind of where Europe.
is shape up either, but I can't Congress has, for I mean I agree as we discuss on previous episodes right, like congressional Republicans, are going to have some difficulty like finding a single piece of legislation that they all want to go for, but I, if they do then trumped consign it and if they don't Then they don't like it just doesn't seem like Donald Trump has a problem here. I think he does. I'm a will see, but I the peace this morning and have a thing about this whilst couple days, something that was very unique about Donald Trump at the presidential level, was that he was able to run without a political record. The people could hold him to Ireland. sort of exactly the point you're making that hell I couldn't had along. Good and had had a lot of that rhetoric over the course of her record who is the single most effective attack? Chump would levy at Clinton was will you ve been around thirty years and you haven't fixed it and people I get. You have been
run thirty years and you haven't fixed it, and you know now, Trump is going to be in this position where instead People looking at him as a change agent, they're gonna be looking at him to actually change things into, have made good on changing things and when they do that, he is I have to have something to show for it when he says that the end of the campaign and met you are the one reminded me this today that this is your. A chance to achieve every dream. You ve ever dream for your country. That does seem like a bed, but even so the make Amerika great stuff. He is somebody who people thought he didn't, he doesn't have appropriate experience and it turned out to be a candidate. He did people not recognised how in an era of cable news and disinter mediated communication through social networks, the experience of a reality, television star who is really skilful at keeping the attack
and focused on him ass, she was really relevant. Runny a campaign but governing is very different. Governing is difficult. This is a place where I think that one reason politicians Trinity light out rightly, is cause death. you and of having these attacks levied at you in ways that are ways it are complicated and so he's gonna have to fight. I think some way for people do not view him as a total fraud. Now it could be the case that people to stop her one thing that is interesting about trumpets, a certain shamelessness about him and The reason I always find it fascinating is it one of the questions I think it has raised. At least for me, is whether the thing that huh politicians is when they get caught lying and doing something wrong or when they admit that they have been caught lying and doing something wrong. Trump, often we'll get a pact and in a place where a normal politician would fold he just won't. He will just fight back and refuse and go on the offensive and, I think, sometimes about during the campaign? I remember there was a if it goes in NBC, form and visas,
I think that Lauer read it because you know what I'm talking about in the first seven questions were some version of what about your emails to Hillary Clinton and because Hillary Clinton had taken a stance of. I did do something wrong, I'm sorry that every time she had to admit that she done something wrong and she was agreeing and met. Lauer is agreeing nobody's, agreeing was bad and then you, become out or whatever and Matlock. I think that he did it gets, but others would say. Will you ve lied about yours support for the Iraq war and nodded and he always created the fight around him. and so maybe it's true- maybe you do not get caught flying in politics. You only get caught for it's only bad for you. If you allow, to be precise, agreeing the what did, I think, there's something else going. I don't really know what it s like, I think, to the whole grab by the pussy incident where he did get on national television, and he said this wasn't appropriately Where do you think the one time I've seen em up higher than in didn't seem to. Maybe you think over who did by all the rest of the stuff, but even when like-
It's been caught in this case like seeing something that, like he agreed, he would later say like this was inappropriate. Generally seem to matter marginal, I thought was going to be like campaign ending in a lot of people. That would be, I think, and I think that was the episode. The did hurt him and I think in part, because if you can remember like a bunch of Republicans, withdrew their endorsements right, then I think part of it was because he wasn't creating a fight over it created space a lot of misgivings about him to erupt. It didn't campaign and write like that, and I agree that it should have, but I think there is more to it. That's what I'd also like? I do want to say. I didn't results matter and politics, I'm just not sure they matter in the particular supposed to the general. So it's like, if Donald Trump takes office and There is a recession of any kind in the year of the twenty twenty election, whether it is because of his policies or not, he is probably going to lose the twenty twenty election and if there was a boom Many kind like I think, irrelevant to whether or not he has been keeping up with his promises. He pie to win the twenty twenty election, so you can
Scape reality if he started a disastrous war for no reason in their body bags and people hate it. I don't even out communicate that, but it may be that you don't have to be super super faithful what you are actually doing in your public, litigation here I mean I'm a fundamentals guy. I dont want to say that like extra reality doesn't matter, but I do think that the question of why do like legislative results matter? does it go a lot over our conventional wisdom about the presidency, where a lot of like what I have read in books about the presidency and about effectiveness and models that corner got worse, I dont work are based on the assumption that the president has a sort of a proper motive for having become president that perhaps mistakenly, that the president has a vision for the country that he wants to move to
and so the success or failure is determined by like the delta between the status quo and why admission is, and so that's what we get. I d is like Bill Clinton. First chief of staff was in effect right or J F. K is fondly remembered, but didn't get much done as president, but I dont believe that Donald Trump particularly carers, however, Donald Trump is at implementing. What we make. We may say: there's there's a MIKE Pence side of Donald Trump and is also a Steve Ban inside of Donald Trump, and I don't, Donald Trump cares about either of those agenda spread and if he,
I'm pushing some of those things. Fine if he doesn't also fine. He has an objective need to maintain an adequate level of institutional support from congressional republicans right, which means, I don't think you can just jettison their agenda, but he can clearly. He clearly feel confident that at this point he can stand up delivery. a profile speech. That literally, does not mention any of house Republicans key legislative priorities, and they will not complain about right. There should be a different situation if, if the way we thought the world worked, was that, after giving a speech like that, job, hence would be featured. Fox news saying: I'm really disappointed that the president didn't talk about core conservative priorities and then, he'll, o Reilly and other conservative pundits would shows that were about how terror
all this inaugural address was right it, but there is not that kind of jumpy they jumping, it does not exist in major conservative media and it doesn't exist in the Caucasus, no, there may be nervous and swayed, but, like famously Democrats are neurotic right and like any time anything happens, brok. Obama was present when Hillary Clinton was a candidate to meet we be like a big prominent debate inside the illogical, centralized circles, but like taking place out in public. It's like is the huge betrayal is she blowing it, and at the moment at least, tromp has mastery over his movement right and everything is celebratory and if he wants to strike a populist tone, everyone talks about what a striking populist tone it was. He got Is that, like a in a traditional sense, I have no idea. I dont think that that matter so right now, of course,
if the country is mired in a recession than you know, what's trump Gonna say right, but the economy's ok now if the economy just sort of continues to or along, but from starts talking about how now its awesome because blue eyes matter it just. It seems to me that that could be good enough at the same time that those folks were not criticising the speech for not having enough in traditional Publican concerns about one of the really fascinating things have happened was during the speech, the transition, White House, Dhaka from being President Obama's website to President trumps website happened, and they have an issues page these page only has six things on it. It is America, first Energy Plan, America, first, foreign policy, bringing back jobs, making our military, strong, again interesting, standing up for law enforcement, community and trade deals working for all Americans and, with the exception of the trade plank, If you read these issues, it's pretty standard issue, conservative problem, I should say Papa
standard issue. Conservative idea, the energy thing is interesting now, because it is a very normal conservative. Like climate changes, gray, we love oil companies, but it's cold a mere right. First read it's it's a it's! A striking new branding of the attic solace and this without was fascinating, because Here you have in the official channels top right, and this is the staff written channel. This is, I think, the pence side of Trump. It just looks Rina with some trompe branding like a plan, the guy from the Heritage Foundation plus the law enforcement piece of it, meanwhile, his speeches all other thing, and this really is an answer. I want the ambition to hear you expound on a bed. Is you have real doubts that Levin and others who are suggesting that you can manage Trump by just letting him say what he wants it: men, assuming he will do his conservative staff, and are recommending that he does. But I think you think that's not true.
I think that you can muddle through. That way. Is that what you're saying? No? So if I understood what you're saying earlier, buffoon correctly, this idea that people have the can cut one deal with Trump staff and there were some kind of thinks and says out there doesn't matter my as you are sceptical of that It seems very odd to me that you can just decide that ITALY, who decide what he is saying that just doesn't, Matter and it seems more plausible, like us, a person in surprise me, isn't it where the website is that there's just no healthcare sector health go it I just down like so. I went into the website, no searched for o bomber care. There is not a single word about Obamacare on White House, thank God, as of like three p m on Friday. not a single mention of the phrase affordable care act on white, our stock of which is a little surprising. Given that president dolls percent. His number one agenda item is repealing the affordable care. So that was a bit surprised
I expected does something where Minos views absent in the speech, but then you're the thing on the website. Those kind of like cribbed from here or his, you know campaign website about health care. So in terms of what his role is in. All of this seems like you want to insert himself into this is not just treating about it, but he s been giving so many interview interviews to accede owes to wash and opposed to do your times where he's going out there like making. thoughts known accepting the bar often turns for everyone, and I Actually I'm starting to think and I'll, be writing about this more next week lake conservator, of policy ends up kind of bending, kind of interesting ways towards the ideals that trumpets setting I think there is a desire to set aside what he is doing, but that's really hard to do when he is now leader of Europe, in President United States and I think, We'll see four ball am like this idea
enrollment, which could have it felt like obscure in health policy like I talked to Senators Senator Cassidy from ASEAN about it, but never like felt prominent, always yeah, it's ATO and let auto enrollment is basically signing it seems. To me. This is in a few republican healthcare plans, but ideas physically, you get a very basic plan that cost the exact amount, as the tax credit and you role people into that, and that is actually it seems like a way you could get towards this promise that Donald Trump is made of coverage. everyone? I didn't want you to. How do you unroll people automatically those it and we don't have that figure it out of the lake you'd out if there was a public ups right? So we do not know the mechanisms like some people have taught you suggested, could go through medication. Is unclear like how exactly this works, but idea something I came across a few months ago. Wasn't getting a bunch of attention and its leaders others fires aiming like it's not the hardest thing in the world, but, like others, buzz and health policy circles around. The idea of Otto in Rome
Can I go? Maybe that's something we should explore to get these coverage of. All that trouble is talking about, is it feels He is as much a be involved directly in these negotiations like what he says it. Man Isn't it matters because he's the President United States at all here of the republic and party leaders are now? I know what I mean to me, this seems to paint tortured, on care p, all ending in some kind of slightly embarrassing muddle and Capitol Hill way that I think it is owing to be challenging to come up with a plan that meets- this kind of goals that enough Republicans are actually excited about voting for, to make it worth doing where
kind of like an intellectual exercise like can. We come up with a plan that meets these coverage goals, but also is cheaper and probably some clever walks can. But, like I mean the thing Democrats found writing affordable care at right. Is it's it's hard to write a concrete law that gets tons and tons who people to Argo vote for it, because people's opinions differ and it's very complicated, there's a lot of removing parties. They also learned its hard to deliver uncreate promise when I, like your help, ensure is that you can you play for the we use in their abominable past. Is that a lot of members of Congress, like people Bernie Sanders Right fairly fundamental philosophical disagreements with that legislation voted for anyway, and because they cared enough about the sort of underlying?
issue that they were willing to vote for a bill. That year was he saw later in his campaign. He was actually quite disparaging about the system that it set up, but he feels passionately about coverage and I just don't see in congressional republican ranks like that level. of interest in the underlying thing they will get. You don't use. You write a bill right and it's like some people's of what a good bill is and the necessarily it's a bunch of other people's idea like and not so good bill, and you need people to like go vote for the not so good bill, and I think that's a high. It's a high bar declare, its I'm really, we were publicans are in their heads and if we see from Trump like not putting the sun's website, not putting a speech is also not like the president is actually can be out there. Lake at people like hey man, I gotta get your on board for the Trump care right
I mean he seems I mean I take that sort of bullet points summer on the website at its at face value Tromp is definitely want. Some kind of big tax guide he's definitely wants a big energy. Do deregulation and he's gonna do something on trade. I think he's happy to do other stuff if like Congress wants to, but it's hard to lighten up, but I got hurting cats. air and when he's not gonna be the cat heard, let me ask one: question: brings back it jumps in our girl, the that I'm curious about before wrap up where you guys surprised that the speech you didn't make more of an effort, being conciliatory, but all I know trumpets tweeting and we talked about this- it. He doesn't believe the pulse, but people around him belief, pulse and he we now have slew of Paul suggesting he's in the high thirty slow forties, which is really bad at this juncture. This was a speech is very court to the basis was a speech. It was really
his people and he had actually this fascinating line. And there were you talked about the forgotten man and woman and how you have Washington now and they will never forget you again and you were the people created this movement and it was very much you describing not the american people but but trumps support us, and indeed do you think that There is a theory here that they just kind of have to write off, the folks who, on the other side of the political divide from them that issues too far gone and the thing to do, is really focus on the intensity of us. quarters at new things, just like their intuition. Do they gotta. This reading it. This is something that I thought I see more of the speech and and and there it is really wasn't there, he ain't something that is traditionally and its future. Evan chain. One of our rapporteur, SIRI did this good peace where he read every integration from washing Obama, actually that turns out there's a formula we ve had virtual, the ears and part of it is like this call to unity
so in that way it was kind of surprising in that, like it is such a traditional part the negotiations for centuries. Now it didn't you, surprising to me watching it like it felt like it from speech. It felt like talking to his base in the lake is after I wrote a story today about how I'm a new Fox NEWS poll showed that about one cares more popular than Trump and immediately the emails. I got we're all about how that's a fake, Paul and I'm take, do really, and language like ok, well enough, that's like the environment were in a kind of get it more now like why bother to give any created, if you, those a Fox news, a false news hall, but I got a few on Twitter, one of my emails, whereas some of this subject- Latinus fake news and went into it average human I am, but if that's like, where people are out? I guess why mess with that at this point like why
let me give you decide to think out this phase of not believing the Paul's like white use. This speech to go in the direction of saying, like I know, were divided when you ve decided that your position is like I'm an incredible amazing human mckendrick thing. I think the thing that they Blake strategically about this hard pessimism is that it confounds trumps point why I think that is challenging for Democrats to respond to that message, not because the message per se is like so amazing, or that, like everybody, loves it but did they re all set of fishers inside the democratic coalition over this like basic, Emotional reaction to the present right and there is a set of you know. I don't know like bushy urban liberals who, I think have wanted to say over the past year
like America, is already grey. Cities are not living in hell, you know like thing, things are good And there's another faction of Democrats that keeps wanting to say, like yeah, the economy is rigged, the big players. Getting over on you kind of thing, and they trump by leaning like so comically into this sort of like rigged system rhetoric, makes it hard for his opponents to like coordinate made on what it is. They are trying to say against him and at least creates the possibility for what he pulled off in November, which was to win despite being unpopular right like if you can't make people who dislike Donald Trump start to like Donald Trump
if you can make the adversaries argue with each other right. If you can turn all of afternoon twitter into being liberals scolding, anarchists for lighting trash cans on fire and then like more left wing people who wouldn't actually out their setting trash cans on fire, but you don't like when centrists punch left are Chris You don't like, like that kind of thing right, just like constantly stirring the pot is, I think, I don't want to give up too much credit to. This is like a genius idea, but I think it's something the day that they like. I think that we saw a story that I thought was ridiculous of the time about how tromp was going to micro target young African Americans with Facebook, video old facebook, video of Hillary Clinton talking wets
we're predators. In the mid nineties. I dont know whether that was a good idea, but they really did do right and turn out among young African Americans really was down for debt I think a sort of first level analysis that, like Democrats were placed a black candidate with a white candidate, and that's why I went down probably carries more weight than like this. Facebook video strategy was brilliant, but they clearly thought it was a good idea because they did and it achieves, result that they were hoping for, and so I do think that you're going to see like just more and more that just kind of like mine games and- and you know, get hard like what is Chuck shimmers reply to the idea that Washington politicians have been enriching themselves at the expense of all voters does shimmer try to say no actually, Washington. Insiders are amazing, because that sounds a bad but shimmer who's been in Congress, since I was in diapers, try to say like now.
I'm a real outsider Likud's. It's tough. Thank you, sir. You asked the question: what do you think? I think it's a bad idea. I think that I did too mats point. I think it works for precisely like seventy two more hours that that's on actually driving force for another year. But at that point, when your president, I mean this happened. Brok, Obama too, Obama was the consummate outside or when he ran for present. now, he was really good at ride. He he had these great rest is. I got you know the the look older as they want you to get more seasoning get shaken up a little bit more stirred get a few more great like he, these very funny long rafts, if he remembers rallies from back then and then a point, your president, and you just on it and confounding as it might be the minority champion someone can have the pivot he's gonna, and this is a pity that the Obama administration never figured out how to make either eyes it. Someone can after pivot and say you did a let me
now. Things aren't so terrible. I brought in all these Goldman Sachs people. Then I'm in the CEO of Exxon and now the cropped up hatred longer rigging the economy in their favour, like it it's for you, so I take nuts point, but I kind of donor where they take it from beat the other thing. I'll say that I think really does. At least a little bit is. Theirs is other big theme in the speech. and I think that in a way that if I had Steve Bannon sitting here or Donald Trump sitting here, what they would say to this is that's not a pessimistic speech and, incidentally, not advice of speech there is a speech. It is extremely heavy on themes of nationalism and patriotism and that's a unifying theme. I dont think in the way that use it actually is a unifying thing, but I think they might actually think it is trunk of using the term America first, which has a very semitic history, but I think give him the better for the data.
The guts how their seeing it hopefully. But one thing it's interesting within that is, I do think, there's something very proper. and about chums world view that he reveals in these speeches again and again another line in there that you know our simple principles: gonna be jobs in America made in America. Something like that. american higher by American higher Mercosur, his wife, it was born in Slovenia. Skirts are made in China and it is his new golf courses in Scotland, but an international business man trump the very transactional view of the world of politics of foreign policy, the zero sum in its structure he thinks of it, though the limited amount of money, a limited amount of jobs, and when China gets more, we get less and in some weird way, Trump doesn't really believe this, and I think if you pick him down and talk to him about his golf course, he would say uneasily. Is it good for Scotland Avatar
golf course are you say yeah. This is great, like I'm, a genius golf course designer and like they're so lucky to have my golf course and then Lily they won't. Is it good for you to have your golf courses but yeah, I'm making all this money off of my Scotland Golf course It's a trump in some intuitive way understands that there are benefits they can beat. You can actually grow the pie by having a much more global outlook, but in his policymaking, doesn't this who's trying to have this very a very narrow kind of transition, Journalism led into a kind of patriotism that I think he believes you'll be unifying and a place where I have a pre core disagreement with him is, I don't think the messages at unifying, but more to the point. I think if he does, in starting trade wars with Germany and China and Mexico. I think it would be bad for both Amerika and the people are having trade wars with and then a bad economy is definitely not. Europe
and I think this is serious in how he's gonna govern. I think this is something that he really believes it. We did this great feature where different folks in them, news. You read all twelve of chums like books, except for the one on Gulf, and this is a theme going all the way back, the beginning has a zero sum, transactional view of like economic foreign policy, its here in the speech. I think it's what he thinks will be unifying by thing. It's bad policy and I think In the way it's gonna come out part of the way he wheeled set against fire who certainly a lot of folks on the left, believed to be part of the american story. At this point, it doesn't work I have been fascinated to see is that I think Most people don't realize the extent to which President Bush and Obama have actually been doing the stuff that they think they want Donald Trump.
to do, and they always a wind up sort of going small with it, because it doesn't. It doesn't work but, like me, I sort of wine foray into like Trump country reporting was talking to some people in a buck. Sport mean who told me they had. voting for some Democrats in the past. It had not voted in some other elections, but like Donald Trump was afresh republican. They were excited about. They were excited about him because he was gonna, bring back paper mill, jobs from China He turns out. There was a great saurian in the Wall Street Journal about Obama's twenty fifteen of tariffs on chinese paper. That wound up rather canadian paper. wind up leading to counter measures from Canada which closed some other plant, and eventually bought the USA, Canada bounded backing down. from there's. Some jobs were lost in the interim the plant. They were trying to save under anyway, because there's been a structural declining in paper as
I think that we lose the paper or so I think there was a good story and then, when looking for more background on it, I found that there have been a previous round of paper tariffs against China. Did Obama levied in twenty two and I'm in the middle of this heated campaign about trade. There was actually Obama put her a very steep. I think of four hundred percent tariff on imported chinese steel, which pleased still work. girls, but then it turned out that end users of steel were complaining Ministration Bush didn't like to tear of China for reasons that Obama people have always puzzled me about, but he got into lots of obscure trade fights with you. up himself at the end of the Bush years. There was this like crippling tax, on work for cheese from France. As they had started. Getting really. Cuba seems on brand yeah. So
They started getting what this was that it was a dispute. The underlying issue has to do with bananas, which are, of course not grown in the United States or in Europe. But U S, based in European, based banana conglomerates were warring over bananas of central american origin, so Europeans started levying tariffs dormant, specifically hit Republicans like in Iowa, because I always swing state. so then Bush came up with these. Like fancy french cheese taxes, nothing was like accomplished Any of the sun was one of the early things. Obama did was just like kind of like wiped the decks clean and Europe forgave him for God, because Data hated Bush and they loved Obama. So I am going to be interested to see how this place because I could see making the case- and I saw Wilbur Ross s testimony in his view seems to be that would you need to do is go in
these things, not because it's your sob, where, precisely because it is positive sum, if you go in and you look like you're the crazy person who is absolutely willing to completely burn the whole thing to the ground. They kind of like have to give you a bigger share the pie, because, if the whole, global trading system collapses. Everybody suffers, but the United States efforts less because our country is so big. That's what you seemed to me to be saying: I don't that's. Satan is risky in an unusual way, I dont know if they will really go through with it, but it to me it's it's the thing to why trade, because there's a version of this policy that we ve seen under the past, present and it doesn't work. So one possibility is trampled, try the same thing that doesn't work, but with more bells and whistles, the other possibilities that he'll try like what they didn't. Try right, which is like go to the mattresses tonight
many are not dazzling. Display of obscure trade fight, erudition, there's been special american carnage, edition of the weeds, the weeds, so calm and panoply, podcast and we'll be back as normal next week, and thank you you are producers who are here late on a Friday, a theme Shapiro and Peter Lenin to debris, especial episode of elites.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-14.