« The Weeds

Joe Biden ain't black

2020-05-26

Jane, Dara, and Matt on gaffes and the racial politics of 2020

Resources:

"Do Joe Biden’s “you ain’t black” comments ultimately matter?" by Fabiola Cineas, Vox

White paper

Hosts:

Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Jane Coaston (@cjane87), Senior politics correspondent, Vox

Dara Lind (@DLind), Immigration reporter, ProPublica

Credits:

Jeff Geld, (@jeff_geld), Editor and Producer

The Weeds is a Vox Media Podcast Network production

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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change our environment and working towards a better future learn more. It INDIGO Ag dotcom, Slash Reechoed. A problem figuring out whether you're for or Trump, and you ain't black have nothing to do with Trump. It has to do with the fact. I want something for my community. I would love to see you look at my record man. I've said at the voting racks twenty five years. I have a record that is second to none. Then a cps endorse me every time I run the world, I mean come on, take a look at the record. hello, welcome through them some of the breed. Some, the Fox media, podcast network, I'm Matthew, Glacius here with Jane coasted, Coston Propublica, lend I feel that life is is slow,
Lee returning to normal, I gotta iced coffee to go from a local coffee shop this morning and in a further sign of normalization, I felt american politics last week was roiled by a gaff gonna watch. It seems I just wanna know here that won't talking about coming back to normal. I think it's like american political journalists may be coming back to normal and they were roiled by a gas And then, if you were not on twitter, you were like I'm looking for my face mask and, and keep my hands clean and attempting to socially distance, while everyone else, the socially distance, which means I ve spent a lot of the last several weeks, just rock walk in the middle of roads, which at some point is going to end badly for me, but not now, but yes, so with, as it does seem that the kind of the elite signal, sent you know. The relaxing of at home owners mean that people are welcome to return to the
regularly scheduled freak out which, in the case of political journalists, means gaff cup. That coverage is for political journalism. The lake of the Ozarks poor party, yeah, that's really signed. We want as the damned yes we're all crowded in drinking of heavily gassing, so so to explain. What's going on, Joe Biden went on the breakfast club, which is a radio show hosted by I remain the God and all of these non abiden democratic candidates went on this show during the primary, presumably to court african american voters who were thought to be decisive in the primary. They all voted, furred Biden who had not cut off the shell, which caused some went into question. The theory that the show is the key to to the after american voter nevertheless Biden, one to do it. They had all of Charlemagne interviews. Are there. He is he's a tough interview,
Isaac Shatner, you dont know about, and people dont know that before they come on the show and then like users like, he asks very distinct, very tough questions. If you are too if Isaac Charter were also Joe Rogan right. If this were also someone through whom you can an audience who you don't necessarily otherwise have reliable way of getting your message out too. So it's raven higher pressure than the kind of intellectual spot worrying that were used. Raymond Lake elite, tough interviews: this is what happens when some one gains this kind of platform pray, merrily because Lakes Charlemagne, how they story of getting have you used to say tremendously regrettable things right, but so I then to me it is right, some technical questions because, like yes, it's good to reach audiences, but it's not good each audiences in a way that just makes you look back
and Charla means interviewing style, because I actually think that I think is, is not the analogy I would use. A lot of fraud have embarrassed themselves talking to Isaac. But if you actually look at the Isaac Chatter Interview archives, there are lots of supernormal ones right inside like entirely normal conversations with like Ben Stiller yeah. I mean it or, like he's very interested in India. So, like you, can like talk to a scholar about problems in South Asia, and they just have a nice commerce surely is more like TIM Russell interviews that that the late host and meet the press who, like his identity, was bound up in being a tough interviewer right like he was just gonna, give everybody a hard time and is like a test of your metal whether or not you can you can put through it. And it's really hard for Democrats, though, because it's a tough interview which comes from the specific perspective
a somewhat disgruntled with the Democratic Party on the younger side, african American who both of us. His opinions that are widely held by segment of the population not at all the views of the median voter in America right like them media in american voter is not at all worried that, with the Democratic party does is spent not enough time. Worrying about we shall minorities and their problems right. Even if that means valid worry, but it becomes this like difficult. You know edge to walk for Democrats, they put themselves in this awkward position. I think each of them think they are so amazing that they're going to ace it and then none of them, do so. This ended with binding at the end being
a little bit frustrated by having sort of been given a hard time. Saying look at the end of the day right if you can't choose between Biden and Trump, you ain't black, which became a problem because its I've been, I think, fundamentally became around because it's odd for an old white person to be questioning the racial authenticity of other people, which again so much of this like it, would be odd for anyone to do it and it's especially odd for Joe Biden to do it just because he is so want to do it, and thus someone should have probably been like you know, for anyone don't do it for Joe Biden, especially particularly don't do it, I mean I feel a little bit bad for for the implication of what I'm about to say. But it is true that the following two statements are valid over the last several weeks.
One Joe Biden has not been making any kind of negative nears under his standing, polls has improved substantially as President Trump's response to the coronavirus. For damage has like become a continued topic of public debate to Joe Biden hasn't been out in public much he inner, obviously he hasn't been doing public events is campaign has been due some. You know socially distance virtual events, but it's not even the kind of mass media interview, things that are in the sweet spot of what do as a presidential candidate. And what can you do and the safety of your own home, like he hasn't, been doing as much as president from has even, and so it is difficult? tell whether Joe Biden is genuinely a better campaigner than he was the last several times he ran for the presidential nomination and lost, all of which, were you know generally,
that are to be in part, because Joe Biden wasn't very good the campaign trail for reasons including his propensity to get himself tied up in gas cycles, where say something dumb and then see no half dead missed and waste valuable time. It could be used, you know doing what near whatever the opportunity cost. That is nothing about his victory. The primary necessarily indicated that, like this was not only that this was a problem that he had fixed didn't even necessarily indicate that this was a problem that he and his campaign thought of as a potential liability, Letty, either in the primary or the general. So when I can't who has known flaws wins a an election in spite of those known flaws like Donald Trump, Is it being a very good example of this? There can be a tendency for that persons that politicians team to say this validates everything we ve been saying about why our candidate is strong, and you know it means that
anything. Anyone any naysayers told us to worry about, isn't actually concern. This is in a certain way, the first test of Henry Biden in his first general election is approach annual candidate. Stop they himself for inner, like Kenya's team. Stop him from doing the kind of things that people, who were bears on Joe Biden said, was going to happen all along. I, as you want to note the pit this in a symmetry in this because the same day, or I think, or maybe the day before, that that he did this breakfast Club Interview Biden, went on CNBC with, I think, would Joe Carmen and also had a somewhat hostile interview with the sea, and we seek I coming at him from sort of what you would expect a CNBC right of center, pro business, free market perspective and Biden. I think acquitted himself quite well. Actually, I think a lot of sort of Biden skeptics, particularly on the left, would have been really pleased to see this interview, in which Biden,
hit on a lot of sort of populist notes? You know he was in irritated that the kind of right, enter business. Guys didn't agree with his perspective. He was like proud to be the candidate fighting for a minimum wage hike things like that, and it was not like by MS, not going to suddenly become like the most eloquent public speaker that you ve ever seen, and but it was a good politician ing stuff right, but it doesn't make headlines because, unlike the President of the United States, he's not the President so his random remarks are not newsworthy per se the whole interview with with country like it was a good interview, but it didn't it legitimately didn't make a new site. I saw it and I was like that was a pretty good interview and I was like. Can I make this into a story like
and at a pretty good- and I couldn't you know it it just like it wasn't that interesting. Then he goes on breakfast club and like it's the opposite right, like a gap that has relatively little content becomes story and that's the a symmetry, of campaigning media and it's a little perverse. You know what I mean. There will now have been far more coverage of this. One line than of anything Biden has proposed to do on public policy, probably combined, which is actually what we should get to, because I think that so much of our understanding of gaps is actually. We are trying to talk about a thing, and then the gap is like next door to the thing. So we focus
on like how could this person have said that, then what are we actually talking about, and so the subjected actual hand is the relationship between african american voters and the Democratic Party, which is something Charlemane has brought up? He did another interview with We read later where you talked about how if Biden were to choose a boring vice presidential candidate that could depress the black vote, which was a big problem in two thousand and sixteen, as we saw in a host of states and could be another concern for two thousand and twenty, because I think so much of gap coverage is like. We know this is important, but we can't really quite circle around to why so we're just gonna cover this a lot and also, I think that there's another symmetry here, which is, I think, very strange, especially in this race, which is that at this current moment, the president of the United States is tweeting that a host of an MSNBC show may have killed
woman and the husband of the woman who died has written a letter to Twitter, asking that they stop this, and so it's really weird have this asymmetry between Like Biden like what about your gaffes. Well Trump is kind of believed to be immune from politics, and we even presume that, because you one in twenty sixteen that means that all of this stuff is somehow good or helpful to him and so you see a lot of political journalists being actually that's. Why accusing people of murder is an amazing, meanwhile hears Joe Biden, so I think that we should. We should probably get too like the policy angle at hand on talking about black voters and democratic party, but there is this weird, it's weird and we, have to talk about. This is the fundamental problem with being a a podcast that is focused on policy and committed to the idea that, like the reason that power Tax matters is because politics leads to policy that which impacts people's lives. Also being in the midst of a campaign season, where, like let's be real
of, what we would be talking about is dependent on the question of who wins in November, and a lot of what people want to hear is. Who's going to win in November. It means that any time you have a question of like handed, it affects broadly construed, whether that's did Donald Trump wind by sheer force of his personality or, like is Joe Biden, a singularly bad campaigner who is less likely to win. Then the inner then like a replacement level Democrat in other regards like it's, not some that we should be talking about normative leave, but it also he's an inevitable like if we're going to say that these matters to elections, at all, and there is a possibility that it does. It can't be voided end, and we can't we don't have a good language to really figure out exactly how much it is or isn't going to matter when people get. It was your way. I think you know it's. What trying to survive. Consider like an attack
apology of gas and then we will delve in into the policy here, because I think that's where it gets you right to sort of canonical gaff. I think the original form of gaff is simply the politician says something and the thing that that person said was dumb and like the classic here is Gerald Ford in a debate against Jimmy Carter, says that is no soviet domination of Eastern Europe and under a Ford administration that never will be, and that was just like wow, that factually false you know what I mean. It was very embarrassing for the President of the United States to indignantly, say this thing. That was totally wrong. It's hard to say exactly I, that Quantum called matters it just becomes a big news story, because it's so stupid. Anything like it makes you think, he'll up what like what is going on here, but critically
Nobody was actually saying in good faith that the fourth administration was I confused about the nature of the Warsaw Pact. Like that, wasn't the point it was, it was just a guess: right. Then, the great political journalist, Michael Kinsley, coined the concept of the Kinsley gaff, in which this is meant to be a counterpoint to afford style, gas and Atkins the gap. The mistake is that you accidentally say what you mean, and so that would be something like if Donald Trump went up, which I
he hasn't done. If Donald Trump went up and said, my administration is working really really hard to increase the amount of pollution and american drinking water, which is like that is a factually true statement, but he never says it. So that would be a gaff, because it's sort of an admission against interest, then you have the sort of person says something that is just an awkward phrasing. So Kevin has it: just over the weekend has been getting dunked for a lot of people by saying that America's human capital stock is ready to come back to work, and this is like a piece of evil. Jargon that, if you are familiar with economic, Like like, I know exactly what he means a totally reasonable thing to say, but it sounds ridiculous makes you sound, like you're, a robot who doesn't know how to talk about human beings to other human beings or Mitt Romney is binders full of women with us of famously like that, right, like the little
The thing that he said I had binders full of women is a really odd turn of phrase, but like it's not factually wrong, and is also not like a damning admission against interest. It's just literally a weird thing to say it's like that, He was a make. It was totally normal. Heeds is like hell. He will send him the recipes of a lot of women, so he can make sure he was hiring women which, like great you, no good for you, then there's the other kind of Romney the forty seven percent of people will never vote for me or Hillary Clinton, and the deplorable rules are observed, Mama and the clinging to guns and religion. We're like the point is totally cogent. It's just kind do offensive. You don't in its just like it's a raw meat. You can quibble, obviously with the details of those
but the reason it scene is politically damaging, is that politicians aren't supposed to be attacking segments of the electorate right like eight, it's not really about black. Why do people for the opposition at its time and again, parties get too up with this question, the question amounts to like: why aren't you universally beloved and its time, You mean like what are you gonna say? Are you gonna say like while, because my ideas aren't that good or like a lot of people. Think by policies will wreck the around me. So you come up with some sick. Poligized reason, which you end up like pathologies using the people who are voting for you and it seems to me that, like the right, way to understand you. Ain't black is that it's a subspecies of that last. Of a right that, like it's tough because, like Biden can't say,
literally, every single african American is gonna love for me, because that's not true and binding also can't say that, like a lot of black people, have really good reason to not want to vote for me, because actually I read in Cheryl Laird and is my own whites book. That Democrats do better without makin voters, then you would gas based on African Americans issue beliefs because they have strong institutional affiliation with the Democratic party so I'm actually just counting on an over performance relative to the fundamentals and I'm going to focus on white voters right like that. That would be sorry. I think this is why this is why either you should be one hundred percent fired by a campaign or bug barred from entering campaigns alternate. But I mean he's just so. It is a great book, shareware new Israel White. It's called steadfast Democrats and they showed it like there are lots of people were view just hear. What does this person think about taxes and abortion and various other things like?
persons, probably a Republican, but then, if you add in also he's african American and particularly also he's african American and he goes to a black church, there very likely to be Democrat, right, but what do you suggest I do like you? Can you can say that in a radio show, a red light gets insulting I've, also like implies that they should vote for the which is inadequate message, so what Biden came up with a sort of actual, like a version of the ladies in white which is to say like well. If you're not voting for me, it's because you're not really black, because that's what black people do and you should reach Charles an interview with her on our box outcome website today and its super interesting. But obviously the problem here is that, like a binding is not a black pastor, scolding Awayward parishioner right, like he's, he's a white guy who actually has a long history,
problematic racial gap right- and this is a category of gap that I'm not sure your typology really gets- that, like the kind of thing that, as you might say, in criminal law, goes to character. Right like- and this is this is where I kind of keep coming back to. We just don't have a good language to talk about candidate effects, because in theory, something like a mean. Sarah pale ends. Katy Kirk Interview right, we're like it was a matter of the relationship between her candidacy, the Republican Party platform in the Republican Party coalition. It's not like any tensions there were being exposed. It was just that a perception that she was a total lightweight was apparently confer by her performance in that interview, and so there are cases where the kind of this tells us
thing about this person. I mean we have this thing with Trump all the freaking time right. The number of genuinely unimportant trump utterances versus the number of from utterances that are unimportant. Lake insofar as their not related to his job, immediate performances president of the the United States, but tell tell us something about his character. This is an important function of in kind kind of the drama figuring out who these people are, who are leading or aspire to lead us and who they are going to listen to once they get into office, which is where it does become kind of a coalition of issue, because if you assume that when the president is alive did they are in a certain way, less beholden to various stakeholders than they were while they were running for election looking at? Who is the who are the people who this person instinctively lessons to is not a time
way to predict. Who are the people who he's going to listen to once he's actually in the oval office right? One of the particular concerns with Biden is that this is Joe Biden saying: this did Joe Biden of the crime Belle and Joe Biden of Young, his friendships with strong Thurman didn't. I think that that is what is being read into this its useful, also to get that there are a lot of people tweeting about this arm and which was a bad idea. This is like the least twitter a bull topic. This is no, but that a lot of people who did not understand that, like a how he put this, both plays into his own personal history of talking about issues involving black voters, but also the history of black voters, Our voters are viewing this election, where it real it is not for many black letters, indecision between Joe Biden entitled trapper what you're, like Blue Lou, I'm really interested in this economic,
But I am intrigued by your views on Medicare for all now. It is very much for many african Americans, specifically african american men, a choice between voting for Joe Biden and not voting at all. Obviously, exceptions. I have received many emails from black trump groups and black Trump representatives, but we've looked at the polling numbers we can. We can all read, and so I think that that's the that's the concern here is talking about you. It's not so much a choice between two equal candidate did it's a choice between one candidate and not doing anything at all, which is what many black voters did into Two thousand and sixteen you see in the three states where Trump was able to win by various slim margins. You saw a host of black men specifically dropping out of the electorate altogether. Yes, you, did see that other I mean I always do want to say that, like in twenty see in like African Megan turn out was roughly. Where was in two thousand for and non
College African Americans voted at a higher rate than non college white and black College graduates voted at a higher rate than White College graduates Whites voted a higher rates than Martinez and Asians, so one reason that this is hard for Democrats is that it's not like black turnout was super low in twenty. Sixteen is it. It was super high into doesn't eight and twenty twelve. I mean they're their operating on a difficult, margin right because you're, saying, okay, Hillary Clinton gets ninety percent of the african american vote and also african Americans in education, adjusted ways voted higher rate than any other racial ethnic group in the United States, but still that wasn't quite good enough right. It just means that, as the Democrats are operating on a difficult margin here, you know what I mean they're, not talking about. How do you appeal to like
the median black voter you're talking about how do you appealed to a pretty idiosyncratic set of people which then becomes ages? It makes it a difficult sort of pride
I said you know, because the logical thing to do is go to say a popular african american radio housed right, but like popular media figures, don't necessarily represent the views of like eccentric people who are on the Biden Trump Marge right. So you have this kind of like dialogue of the deaf. We're like Biden is Gaffin, but also that stakeholders are pushing an issue agenda that I don't think there's like it really clear evidence. Sherry base that like that is what drives doubts about the Democratic Party with the people, who are the most relevant Marge right. A lot of this seems to be kind of a say, signalling device ever somewhere if you workin,
and about Joe Biden ability to reach out to black voters. Previously, I've noticed that some of the people who I think started talking about this earliest were people who are extremely prominent supporters of Bernie Sanders, which is totally fine. You are allowed to believe that the person who made receive the democratic nomination is not as good as the person you wanted to receive the democratic nomination, because that's our politics works, but so much of this is a signal and also a little of it seems to have been based on less thing to the perspectives of black voters. Let's, let's, let's take a break because we're long overdue for that and unless, let's turn to, to some matters of substance. If the last year is taught us, anything it's, that we don't know what will happen next, but there's one thing, I'll be sure of the only future is one we can all share and leading the charge in building that future is mercy Corps
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There's a lot of just sort of doubts raised about Biden's record. Particularly on criminal justice, where he has been a sort of a real, tough on crime sort of hot and in a lot of media circles and activist circles. I think the criminal justice issue has been sort of framed as like the route to the african american vote and if you go to the black voices, four trump website. The number one bullet point on their like hears trumps policy agenda for African Americans is to note that the unemployment rate is it start glows, which I think was probably when they wrote that, but has stopped being true and they didn't update it and then there's a bunch of stuff about the first Step ACT, which was a modest bipartisan criminal justice.
form effort, tromp, has sort of high lighted his work with with Kim Kardashian on summit, stuff. He I'm I'm I'm forgetting the name, but you know Trump has taken advantage of black lives matter to really make himself like a cop candy you know and like the thin blue line candidate and get extraordinary levels of support from police officers and law enforcement group Well, then, also using moderate amounts of interest in criminal justice reform, as sort of a hook in his black electorate pitch. If you look at Biden, sort of policy pitch two african Americans. It is really back to the future stuff from Democrats right He heavily leans into the fact that the binding and afford the welfare state would be very, very good for the african american community, which is true,
so like he wants to raise a phenomenon waged fifty dollars an hour. I like this up national employment law project says most African Americans in America make less than fifteen dollars an hour so that, on its own, like that's a really big deal like most people like to get more money. He wants to turn section eight housing vouchers into an entitlement program which would roughly triple the number of families who are eligible. I saw some place. It was like debunking the myth that this is a program just for black people, which is true. It turns out that there's a program about a third of the vouchers go to African Americans, which means that triple the rate in the population. He wants to double Pell grants. He wants to triple title one education assistance which again, like that's, not a rate. Targeted programme, but disproportionately the kids in title, one schools, our african Americans. So this
How Democrats used to do politics ride like if you go back, you read like Eric sticklers buck racial realignment about the nineteen thirties, and it was like Democrats do things that help people in the bottom. Third of the income distribution, because african Americans are very disproportionately in that bottom. Third of the income distribution. They like those programmes, vote for the party that supports them. Whose voice to try to address specific concerns, but our primarily backing Democrats based on a race, neutral economic agenda, and then what conservatives do is they try to say? ha this race, neutral economic agenda is really code for taking step away from white people and giving it to me
people so like Russia, Limbaugh says that Obama CARE is reparations, so that's it. Conservative messaging tactic, right and Democrats messaging tactic is to do what Biden does right in like what are you going to do for African Americans and you list off the bunch of stuff that you're gonna do for lower income people, another thing and abides agenda nearer and nearer to the weeds heart is like he talks about how African Americans disproportionately suffer from air pollution and he's going to do this than the other thing. I think that's all like it. It's all totally true right, but he doesn't gibe with the current the post Obama sort of raised ambitions. I think that exist which want Democrats to address specific, racial sources of inequity, rather than offer a race blind economic program, the disproportionately benefits African Americans and Biden.
Really not done that it. He has a real part of, like is being an old guy and his being a politically cautious sky? Is that when a lotta. Democrats seemed inclined to maybe like a reparations chain or call the criminal justice system racist in the forward. Thinking structural racism kind of way like buying talks. An old guy who's a Democrat to a t like you could copy and paste him from the mid nineties at me, because he was there in the mid nineties as promised a Democrat and it's like. Sometimes things are exactly, they here and I feel like in the case of Joe Biden being a conventional Democrat whose also very old like it is exactly how it appears like he has a broad powers. The agenda that is quite beneficial to lots and lots of african american
and he also does not have a like copy and paste it out of the twenty twenty playbook like policy agenda. That addresses race conscious policy making in that kind of way. I also think it's interesting because I've been obsessed with this concept of signaling and it's interesting, how each side talks about criminal justice reform, but they actually mean two separate things: the Trump administrations in creation of criminal justice reform is, like you committed a crime of some kind, but we're going to try and get you out of here an earlier or if you talk to coke industries and the efforts by a lot of libertarian leaning criminal justice reform groups there talking about the back end of criminal justice reform there talking about getting any limiting recidivism and talking about changing the number of prisons has been a big effort. The right is to close more presence when Democrats and gentle people on the left or talking about criminal
justice reform there talking about cops and they're talking about fewer people getting arrested for fewer crimes, because there should be no how crimes are enforced if your understanding, as that, like a law, is enforced by the power of the state that maybe we need to change laws and decriminalize things. These are both criminal justice reform, but they are signals to two different ends of criminal justice reform, not at all sure that the term criminal justice reform is actually like. He has the the political valence you're, saying it as legal right up until twenty fourteen criminal justice reform was understood on a bipartisan manner in like in the states, as well as at the federal level to mean sentencing reform. Unlike what You meant front end or back and sentencing reform, and you know how far you were willing to go on, quote unquote like violent offenders, or any of that was like that might be. very some not or you know why you were opposing it and whether you what a man of you increased spending.
programming you would tolerate to lower recidivism verses, seeing lowering recidivism as virtuous for the purposes of cutting budgets. You know that, like those that things had political balances, but the fact that criminal justice reform, Sensing, her former synonymous and were seen as legislative efforts. Wasn't that you know partisan, and I think that the rise of the. Black lives matter. Movement has focused attention of the left and left of centre on policing, but I think that the relationship of that policy is still kind of Angola and that's not least because its really hard to make policing policy at the national level or even at the state level like there are theory, radically things that you could do, but those things are actually be there. There The Ben Diagram of Police clay, low hanging fruit and things that a state or federal government can actually do you know you can you can?
what all the money in the world toward body cameras and like that's, been done, but that's basically at. I do think that it's worth understanding the issue of criminals, just reform in be like since the remains alive in the states and, frankly, it's going to be very interesting to see whether states with extremely crunched budgets. I decided splendid that by doing any kind of sentencing, reform or whether because appropriations and legislation are very different in this, it's even when you do have to have a balanced budget, all around you don't necessarily have to. You know balance it through. Policy whether the answer will just be too like clothes, more prisons and stuff the same number of people into less space, but you know. I think that this is a pretty good example actually of an issue where democratic politics We have found a language that appeals really well to their constituents that doesn't necessarily commit them to particular policy positions. Just because there are obvious thing.
that a version of Joe Biden, who it is more appealing to black lives matter, does in office. That are the things that Joe Biden as he exists. Right now is doing right, and I think that that's an important note is that one of the interesting is about this administration has been YO. I returned to the wonders of federalism and some, for example. If the policy were like, the federal government should take a bigger hand. Local policing- unlike maybe not- but I do think it's interesting how entire conversation in south, becomes a signalling device in which a lot of the comfort you d conversations about trumpet first step is almost not so much about talking to black voters, but talking to white voters who are a kind of cancer,
with what what black loaders maybe think, but through the interpretation of the truck administration- and I think that that is really where this specific gas quota quote come came up, because what Biden did here is that he crossed the streams into a world that is talking to black voters, not talking to white voters about black voters like Charlemagne. The God is someone who I think is representative of a group of people who are like. I am not particularly enthused by Democratic Party. I am not going to vote for Trump, but I am not very excited about this. You should help me up. Why should I be excited about this? And it's an interesting moment, because so much of talking about.
The fact that the first thing that comes up when people talk about like voters as criminal justice perform or an just like as a black person. I'm just saying that my dealings with the criminal justice system have been extremely few knock on what, but like the idea. That in itself is a signal that, in itself that, like so much of that prior to reservation, comes it like you. That is what the issue should be for black Americans when I'm thinking about you, maternal and child health Einstein how about a food deserts? I'm thinking about corona virus in the impact on black business owners who have been ravaged by the economic devastation caused by this pandemic. But it's all of this is our signalling devices, and I think that that's why this moment it was not important important, but it was important in that it was part of this overall signalling, but its trust in the talking to the people that they were signal about not about them. So I think that it is come in for Democrats too
that republican outreach efforts to African Americans are really about signaling to white moderates, but the Trump campaign people like they swear to me up and down that like they are deadly serious about this and have been for a long time and the democratic data people who I think, are the best in the world. They were legitimately worried about this and, like not worried about the the sort of hyper. Medical, like super, woke, I'm not enthusiastic enough about the Democrats person. They will enthusiastic about again, not the typical african american vote right. But the african american voter, who is more conservative than eighty percent of African Americans right that person deciding I like Donald Trump deciding I dont like them.
I I think the economy is booming under I am probably more prosperous than the average african american man, and I am just like going to vote for it because I think he's doing a good job and the difficulty for Democrats is that they tend to. do black politics through these sort of institutionalized pillar swayed you go to certain churches. You go on certain radio shows, but the people who are the contested vow are the least institutionalized segment of the. They are people who do not just have died. So about the Democratic Party, but they have doubts about those controlling institutions in african american life right, and so it's why the Trump pitch one pillar of it was the strong economy and another pillar of it was school choice right. Which is a thing were as a matter of good coalition politics, the
has become has become hostile schools, charter schools right because it's the Democratic Party blah and so the pitch there is again not that the media in african american voter wants to disagree with the into Boise P about charter schools, but its debts, some of them, maybe do some of them may be feel that black institutions, are selling them out for the sake of being good citizens inside the Democratic Party and actually some conservative ideas are our good right now. The problem for tromp is that again, like Literally, you can go today to the black voices for Trump website, and their headline point is that there's a record low unemployment rate and, like that's, not true right, it's not true because of corona arrests and then specifically, we know that the pandemic is devastating black at a much higher rate and that the Trump administration is,
now running on, like actively running on indifference to vulnerable communities. In this regard, and saying that, like for the sake of the greater economic good, think we just gotta open things up and I think that really undermine. You know he's he's lucky that Biden did a gas because he had a strategy here that I think made a certain amount of sense and it's just completely collapsed in the face of the pandemic. Because he never really had done anything that lead african american unemployment rate being the lowest on record, but it was like it was true that that happens right now. It's just the reverse write. Something is happening epidemiologically that is like way worse for African Americans and for the typical white person. It's kind of trumps faults and he's
doing anything about it. And you know if you would just like stick to that point instead of saying weird stuff like that seems like it would be a good, a good message: But this is what there was saying at the beginning. That, like Joe Biden may just like not be that good. At talking about politics ray, I mean, like various things, that you know what Talking about the danger of fleeting black Americans with criminals. Does her for you know, which runs the risk of implying that, like you, think, black people are criminals. The treaty, an old democratic policy platform of lake race, blind programmes that disproportionately help african american people because of it locking inequalities can lead to the kind of stuff that is the other thing that one of the Joe Biden quotes that got brought out of the vault. In the wake of this, you know you ain't black gate which as you know, his saying that, like a poor, kid should have the same chances of white kid like if you're making those it those
nations that maybe both mathematically like? Yes, it is, in fact true. There is a correlation between regional inequality and wealth inequality and like no one would dispute that it still now a good idea to have a politician who is as obvious, ending cautious as to actually say that they think of the two is largely synonymous so to a certain extent, this is just of different people are different and when your analyzing blocks of voters, you run the danger of us rising them anyway, and that's particularly problematic, When you have you know, people who are plugged into politics talking about how to reach a soul. Graphic that is not plugged into politics, but it also does you know the institutionalization Wait, I think, is really important because it both gets to what is so difficult about reaching out to disaffected voters, because you can have all the group.
The game in the world. But if that ground game is being led by the exact same institutions, that a particular group of people doesn't trust It doesnt, particularly matter that you have good Julian's and get Julian's of people pounding the pavement, and you know running the text Bank and all of that. It also gets into the problem that the people who are The scene eyes gatekeepers, who are representative, who art token ized of my. Ready group within an elite aren't necessarily the same. People who are who are supposed to be reached out to write like the kind of- and I just not it is simply as a matter of personality. The kind of person who was driven to make a career in democratic party politics may be different from the the person who isn't sheriff they're going to vote in any given year, and this can be just a it's. It's an outrage problem that I
We often fall back on candidate effects to explain whether those are the representation effects of like oh in open Obama turned out a lot of black voters. You don't otherwise throughout develop The regular basis or this kind of belief in Donald trumps, enow ability to pull people out who make them a care about politics who otherwise would, though these are things that We can see happen because we know that the people who respond to them don't necessarily respond to all of the kind of science ties ways, getting voters to the polls that people have been developing it Lee cycle over cycle oversight over generations. Should we she returned to Emma, may the real future. Yes, ok, take a break we'll be back
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not a lender terms and programme rules apply. We have today persistent effects of violent media content, which turns out to be, I think, I'm a little broader than the actual savage of the paper wiersma. Jason Window Isaac, Swenson England model. This reflects a topic that was it. Huge hop button in the in the nineties, which was does violence in the media, turn young people into psychopathic killers or something, and so they look specifically at the rise of the ultimate fighter, which was like the first big head. Like mix martial arts, television show- and you know what we're just and just to just to back up the ultimate fighter, the premises that
There are different you're, a bunch of Mme fighters mix, martial arts who are competing and living together all to get a contract. If I remember correctly with the ultimate fighting championship, which, as you have seen, the most visible level of mixed martial arts, and so they were, they were They lived in houses and they swore at each other a lot and then they fought it was great they do. You know they do they they instrumental eyes the change in ratings on the network that air this across different geographical locations so basic they're saying like ok, where, where did a lot of people start tuning in to the ultimate fighter and just fortunate way, and they show that a lot of people watching the ultimate fighter was associated with a decline in violent crime. They then for robustness, sort of check with that. You have see main events.
Which is on paper view, and they again show that a lot of interest in watching makes martial arts on television is associated with a decline in violent crime does very interesting, and certainly if the opposite was the case, people would be like jumping up and down about it. I think it's a little aggressive decided this did. This shows that vital the content reduces crime, but it definitely seems to not increase it right or it's hard to have these kind of statistical coincidences. I never watched, mix martial arts on television. I think I've knit and bars are you know clips here and there, but it's probably to do so. Much cries, as is that a fact, has been an overarching debate. If we recall after the parkland school shooting the Trump administration's first thought was video games or the issue here, because it
seems to be an easy way to of to sort of talk about gun violence without ever having to talk about guns, and so the video game industry has put up with this. For thirty forty years now, mixed martial arts, which form the late senator former Senator John Mccain, referred to as human cock fighting back, and I can't ninety six. They have chain like what the legalization of mixed martial arts and each state was actually that's an entirely, separate podcast subject, but that in itself was a big challenge, and so this whole debate has been ongoing at its best. It receives paper because that's been reflected in current yo. They talk a little bit about violent movies and violence and video games and the court In addition, as this paper details between what people do in their lives everyday lives and what people watch is not as connected as we think it is an especially because I think one of the things I found fussing about this is that is to say,
Paper that was written about a show about a sport. It was not written about people who are like no do you watch mixed martial martial arts was a very specific subject. I found that interesting because how the ultimate fighter depicts mixed martial arts is very much. These are two people who hate each other. Finally, they're gonna get in the octagon and settle it mixed martial arts If you ve ever done digits two or cut yo any sort of kickboxing at the fact that Thursday stand up came the ground get it. You can do this in a very specific way, but they went after the means of discussing mission mix, martial arts, which is itself the most glamorizing of violence that I found that interesting that that you it's about this show which end and it's about how violence is pursed, even even when it is
glorified in a specific context, it doesn't seem to have that correlation to the lived experiences of the people watching it. I am not necessarily sure that you come away from a paper that says that people who are occupied, doing this activity, that that population is meaningful enough difference to lower the, Overall, I think, to the contrary that indicate that the people who are being incapacitated by watching the stuff might in fact be those who are more likely to be committing crimes that they didn't have anything else to do with them, and that's like that's the literature that they're situating cells in right is like this idea of incapacitation that is in a centrally, but something similar to to what previous studies have shown with video games with the internet, with like a lot of other ways that people can spend their
I'm that weren't necessarily available to them in the nineteen eighties and early ninety Ninetys. It turns out that if you kill, you know a population that is disproportionately in no, like disproportionate number of violent crimes being committed by young men like things, the forms alternative waste occupied themselves that appeal to that demographic are going to have impacts on crime now, at the same time, it's kind of the interchange ability of that that makes it so hard to credit. This particular idea that there's something in Billig violence of the content itself right Lake Weave- and you know we have discussed this on the weeds plan- This is certainly come up at box. A lot like the answer to widen crime go down so much over the past quarter century. Is it's just such a huge, huge, huge change that not all, Does no single thing explain it, but there is a lot of stuff that partially explains it, and it's so it can
a little harder to assume that this is I just I'm having trouble giving this any much credit above and beyond. Well, yes, you know it a lot of happened. Crime went down for a lot of different reasons. This is one of those reasons. Yeah though I mean it. You know to the sort of specific connection to violent content. Right, if you think about this, for my parents, point of view in case anybody you know has like a five year old son kicking around oftentimes one will observe a young person more often than not a young boy exhibiting a lot of interest in interpersonal violence? As its subject matter and you are trying to discourage that person from you know: miss behaving hurting other people getting into fights, etc.
And you might legitimately wonder whether this person's interest in the subject right in June little violent games with his toys? Talking about these things right? Does that is that the leading you down a path of escalation or is it as there was saying right? Is it a substitution effect where it's like? You got to do something with your time if you are interested in violence like you, could a book about a war or you can go punch somebody racket and it would be healthier to channel in the I went media direction than in the actual violence connect direction If a sort of baseline level of interest in violence is I baked into the cake, right now. Obviously, that's like way beyond the scope of correlation of studies of ten ratings
drills down closer to the heart of the human psyche, but I That's the reason, though, why I think these like video games, cost we'll shootings things, are intuitively appealing to a lot of people now because they watched their kids. Get interested in life A game where you're mowing down people are aliens or creatures or whatever it is, and you worry because, like you trying to raise kids in a responsible way- and it's like- is this like programming children, to think that DEC of acting out like is good, or that this would be fine, or is it not right and so that's to me, I think that's why there's like always an elevated sort of level of interest in this kind of topic, even if it's not policy relevant, and if you don't get it
whatever you think about this right, like we have a first amendment like this, that you you're not gonna, pass a law that cycle there can't be any actions of violence on television, so you could say like was so why right? But it in my experience, though, just like of intense interest too the visual yuppie pants score like wondering what to do Their time sets mighty sense. What I am hearing is that you need to get your son into mixed martial arts. This is the most exciting development of the day, where he is he's very hints. Issue battling as he says you now, jumping on his parents punching kicking yeah, what is becoming a civil war by Sir that's good excellent, Definitely the most productive way to channel all childhood aggression is to turn them into the kind of people who are going to end up reading killer angels by the time they're out of Iraqis, yet you
Just let me know when he's ready for the George Mcclellan conversation my parents talk to your kids about George Macleod before Jane. Does it forty? That's it! That's a tough one! How to talk to your kids venture to define a perfect is gonna, be going to be some content for the future, so I think I think heads I'll take him out we can handle here is some thanks guys, thanks as always to our wonderful producer, Jeffrey held and the weeds, we'll be back on Friday, a gray.
Transcript generated on 2021-05-19.