Andrew Prokop joins Matt to talk about Steve Bannon’s war on the GOP establishment.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Just a flake news of the week about fake, like cast flaky weeds hello, what them to another pursuit of the weeds and the fox media. Pakistan work Matthew Glaziers today, I have with me a justa into programme, because I really wanted to sort of delve into story that that he published this week caught Buttercup called the perch. It's called the republican purge has we just begun yet, and it is a great piece, erasure, read it and I think it's it's about some of the events that have sort of made waves this week, but it's really about the kind of deeper trends that that lie beneath it. But first let me let's, let's talk about what happened on Tuesday, which was at an idea in more problem
Eddie politics. Yes, so on Tuesday Senator Jeff Lake of Arizona announced TAT, he was not going to run for reelection in twenty eighteen. He gave a speech on the floor. Denouncing Donald Trump then really seeming to question his own parties. Sir hesitancy to criticise tramp now flake himself wrote a book that he published earlier this year called conscience of a conservative in which he he really did sort of lay out. A multi pride critique of trump there by some have criticised him, because he he's a conservative republican and he's tended to support the parties agenda in his actual votes in Congress, Also, he hasn't really, you know, seem to be too aggressive when it comes to US cider or any of the other sort of things you can do he he really seem
be waging this ideological critique that he was trying to make in his book and what he specifically said was that heat he objected to trumps anti immigrant and anti muslim kind of rhetoric and policies, he criticised Trump or not being conservative enough on economics and foreign policy, and he also just kind of generally criticized his character, behaviour and fitness. office flakes flakes bug. It seemed to me was really well timed for the poor, Mary Mine, that we in which Hillary Clinton as president, and which we don't happen to be living in right but like when we thought Hilary was going to win. We thought there would be a lot of post election were nations from Republicans, and the stance flake takes in the book is a stance that, in that
counterfactual reality, I think would make a lot of sense. Wait like there would be different camps, but like the Jeff flight Camp, that's like hey guys. We went and did something a little nutty, unlike we shouldn't have done that we should come back to the pure conservative principles of our fathers. Like the book title echoes the title of bury gold. What Spock quite by Goldwater? Was a centre from Arizona before Jeff Lake with Senator from Arizona? It's like a reply kids are in the wilderness. You now come to Jesus sore or just a Smith than in flakes case, and, and you know, let's like have a renewal in the Trump era. Likud's we're because don't from his governing and Jeff Lake is also governing, One naturally asks like what like doing, and the answer is he's quitting
and- and it was also an odd choice- just you know- we're republicans have tended to align strategically if they ve criticized it. If they have misgivings with what Trump is doing or they don't like the direction it's taken. The party and Republicans in elected office have generally decided to keep their mouth shut about it this year. Occasionally, one or two of them well speak up every. So often bad, but it was really odd for flake to go our friend and drop this book and damn you know, I did, as you saying it, it's sort of disconnected from the powers of his office. Necessarily this is a book he could have written if he was just a conservative columnist at some media outlets. You know that there is really nothing particularly
being a senator that has sort of made his behavior change this year, his actual political behaviour that may be different. Now he said that he wants his SAM decisions and actions in office for the remainder of his term until he's gone at the end of twenty eighteen to be completely detached from an effort to in renomination into when a primary. So maybe he will start. doing more The actual you know policy political front using his powers as senator more but I think he has been hesitant to because he was looking at this potential, prime, hurry all along, and you know so. He he's kind of been restrained like he wrote the book, but
it's not like. You went on tv every single week criticising Donald Trump like like he was. He was trying to sort of have it both ways to kind of preserve, at least a glimmer of hope. To win a primary. Why so joining part of the change here is that fake had been looking at a very tough primary challenge all year, right and had seemed to be the loser. Frankly, to not even that strong candidate he was down by by by September. He was trailing by about twenty five points in two separate poles, which is just absolutely horrific numbers for an income at you almost never see numbers letter. So what happened on Tuesday was he he gave up and he gave a speech that was much more, could help but you it was a meaner than his book.
Like he said. I will not be complicit in the various degradations of public life and embargo by implying that his colleagues are complicit right and saying very explicitly that one of his goal? rules in not running, for reelection is to sort of like cut himself off from these political type considerations, and so I think it it raised expectations that, like there should be a A second punch right, so it's like here my ideas and now like here's, the thing I'm going to do about it ideas, but he doesn't seem too, and I simply I mean there's some back and forth about this warlike. So, conservative will be like Trump is bad because he does crazy tweets and then a labourer will be like, but your voting but Trump on tax policy the conservative will be like. But why should a conservative abandon conservative tax policy just because Trump has bad tweets?
And I sympathise with all that- and you still remains the case that, like politics, is a field of of action, and that its incumbent on a would be political leader to come up with some kind of a plan and to me I mean this had been a striking. The theme of like never trump conservatism for one or two years now is a lot of kind of like notions, but very little in the way of like here's, what we're gonna do? Here's who I'm gonna work west, here's what we're going to try to accomplish and here's the means that we're gonna use- and I I was watching flake speech and I was like our I like what what's come in and like it seems like nothing has come here I mean I think once that'll be interesting to watch over the next ten years or so until the new class of Congress comes in it
Nineteen is whether these lame duck republican senators. Who'd dislike trump will really try to get together on anything that that sort of traditional thing to do in the Senate. If you want to flex your muscles is to form a group that can actually block legislation nor or nominees or so forth. In and there's right now, there's Bob Corker, whose retiring there's Jeff Flake, there's John Mccain, who is probably not going to run again in twenty twenty two twenty except the end it seems like they could get together made. Maybe there's something they could do on you. No more oversight on the Russia scanned. All a tougher sort of scrutiny of nominees, to U S attorney posts, for instance, that there have been some sort of questions about
Tromp personally interviewing those nominees and and whether that could then present some kind of conflicts. but we really haven't seen it so far. I mean it only takes three republican senators to get together to block any nominee or bill, and they you now. Obviously the Obamacare bill went down, but as far as anything else really We just haven't seen it and even the Obamacare bill which went down, wait it down in a very disorganized way when it was not the case that Mccain, Collins and Mc Caskey formed a blocking coalition that put out some kind of collective demands, that then Mitch Mcconnell, another Republicans were unwilling or unable to meet this demands or that in the demands they lost votes on the right. You can imagine something that had played out that way with like defined blocks and negotiation and, ultimately a failure, but like actually what
happened was was that they rushed toward the Enzo on with a bill that they thought maybe might pass, or maybe my not, and at the last minute John Mccain decided. He was against it Collins in Macao, Ski who would not enough to block the way sort of had laid out some some red lines and some real markers, but Mccain, just kind of scuttled at which, from I mean I don't know if you like, medicate by good for John Mccain but its again not very efficacious. Senator ring compare to something like how house blue dogs back when Democrats had majority would try to You know hold meetings and have a decision making process amongst themselves and exercise their leverage You you could imagine, I mean flake Court, Mccain, and I would say Susan Collins have all gone.
one way or another by pretty far off the threat, their political brands at this point are not like Hindustan Donald Trump liking. Them and they could get together and try to say I don't know hears like three things that are important to us and we're going to try to get them done and then think about ways to get those things done, but they don't. They don't really seem to collaborate, even even the flake thing so gently was timed. On the same day, the Bob Corker went on all the morning shows to talk about how Trump as a maniac, but that doesn't seem to be coordinated yet, and I think that for these senators, who are sticking around their under a lot of pressure, not to do anything as ostentatious as form a block like this is that is something that Mitch Mcconnell leadership really would not like. They would see it as a serious threat and, if you are say LISA, Mc Caskey or John Mccain,
one thinks for Miss Mcconnell John Mccain cares deeply about how I'm his military authorization bill turns out. Lisa Morocco, ski really wants to. at the Arctic National Wildlife refuge for more oil drilling there, and these are things that Mcconnell could either cooperate with or not cooperate with so they're trying to sort of calibrate their opposition. You know it's always up to them whether they vote for against something in the end, but challenging the leaderships power so ostentatiously by forming gang or a block, or something like that. They have a lot to do that yet and now I think with Corker flake headed out the door. There might be more of an impetus to and just the things flake is saying. This was true when he wrote his book too
You know the severity of the problem. He seems to describe how he describes you know all sorts of in stark terms have how he thinks Trump is unfit for office and how, dangerous to democracy, and it would seem that such a severe problem in his mind with, would merit a severe response that goes beyond just you know saying this is a problem like you should probably come up with more creative tactics to do something about it in and they really haven't yet and said now. The question is whether, now that he doesn't have to have this primary in the back of his mind anymore, whether he will be a little more creative going forward. and just like you know your listening- I have some ideas we could. We could talk about some, some more creative legislative tactics, I want to take a break in and then I want to talk about the purge that that you're describing more properly
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You're. Talking about up a plan that Steep Bannon seems to have hatched. That goes because a lot bigger than taking on the Jeff Lakes and in accordance with the carcass yeah, so basically Steve than in former white has chief strategist now on the outside. He has said that he wants to make Basically, a totally new republican Party tear down the existing establishment and its leadership and just build something new replace it. So what he's doing in twenty eighteen is he's backing primary challengers to almost every republican senator on the ballot. The only exception is TED crews, who he thinks is enough of a kind of firebrand bomb. Thrower anti leadership die too
to merit being spared by every sort of ordinary republican senator, which includes Roger Wicker from Mississippi or Dead Fisher, from the brass guy John Boracic, from why oh man like these are people who vote very conservative lay, but they get a lot of headlines and they don't they're not like eager culture warriors and and they're not sort of making trouble for Mitch Mcconnell all the time and to ban in that is enough to make him want them. like he wants he once more TED cruises. He wants more, you know, disruptive kind of people and what I think that a lot of this sort of coverage of this has gotten alive. Wrong is their ban in his usually described as as a nationalist populist? Who wants the Republican Party too?
do you much harsher on immigration and but but also has different views on economics like he is he's very critical of recent trade deals in and in the White House. There are all these stories about how he would be pushing for a big infrastructure plan or wanted to raise tax cuts on the rich and those ladder to, in particular, have really sort of fallen by the wayside in his effort to recruit challengers because he's really trying to build a coalition that can take down the existing establishment and ass. He surveys the world of conservative activist groups and what conservative voters really care about. What he's noticed is that a lot of this dissatisfaction is highest on the
the biggest traditionally conservative activist sore or the people who really want to slash government spending or or the freedom caucus types in the house or or the outside groups. That have been supporting primaries like this for years like heritage action and so on. So he views those groups his allies in his project in destroying the existing congressional wings establishment leadership, which is currently Paul Ryan image, Mcconnell and replacing them with something else. I think it is important to bear down on him in some detail, read so Donald Trump as a candidate as a primary candidate right. He in important ways tax to the centre on you it gets you swayed. He says, is give me no cuts to medical and social security. He can amuses about cutting taxes on the rich. He endorses glass, Steagall, twenty four
century Glass Steagall bill that would break up the largest international banks. He's critical of international trade deal and he criticizes trade deals in populist term that would be familiar for him to get part shared well on or frankly, John Kerry's, two thousand and four campaign against George W Bush, and I think I think there was something underplayed about this in like post, two thousand and sixteen election analysis, because so much happened in twenty. Sixteen but like once, would have been all thing that happened in twenty. Sixteen is it Donald Trump abandoned certain unpopular right wing economic policy stances and gained votes as a result of that in a sort of varied, normally kind away, then in office trump has governed as a much more orthodox guenaud tax, cutting deregulating conservative,
He campaigned as and one of the other things that has happened while Trump has been in office. Is that Steve Ban in who very much plugged these populist economic themes left the White House under somewhat contentious terms? So the obvious, like next chapter, four Bannon, just in a abstract space of pure logic, would have been to take up the ideological banner of campaign trump and like find, can that's. Who would resist that Paul toward establishment economic policy views and, of course, also insisting on my wing views on immigration and Islam and and all that other stuff, but it's not just like Bannon hasn't taken, path? What would you weren't ones that Bennett has done the opposite way? that is formed an alliance with the law
the standing sort of economic policy in ecological purists. I'm just a common goal of electing people who will say mean things about benchmark. Ah, yes or or people who are just sort of war, you now eager to shake things up, tear down the system- I don't know like people that will just be harder fur leadership to whip into line on certain votes like right now, they're they're, probably only you know from the right, there are only two or three people in the Senate who really said that description in and he wants to sort of build up that block and- and I think you also have to keep in mind that you know we talk about this ideological project, but also Bannon runs a
when news website bright bad news in his you know he's very plugged into some sort of what people are clicking on what people are reading. Where The energy is end, and he part of his project is to promote politicians who would be more likely to say the kind of things that bright Bart readers with like, and one thing that's been pretty clear over the course of this year- is that you know economic. You know, liberalism is not one of the things that is most likely to get. You click son right, Bart NEWS, it's this sort of the immigration issues stand racial controversies and, and things like that, if they generally tried to downplay the economic side that load, they write about.
Trade, a fair amount, but then I guess I have like a somewhat harsher view of that, like if I think, back to Andrew Bright part states at bright by like one of the things he really pioneered in journalism, was deliberately making things up right like way. Politicians will often do that red tape, so he would things like collaborate with people and you sting videos were then the sting video wouldn't show anything damning, so they were just edit. It were all right, so that was like I mean lying has always existed in human endeavour, but, like tradition, Molly and the journalistic view. People try not till I like Andrew Bright Bark, he fuckin loved lie. and see man, and I think I just like brought that to the fore like he's financed by a family of wealthy New York, finance billionaires, who he likes to hang out with on their luxury yacht. In CAN France, and he
and his really rich friends have decided that one way to help is really rich. Friends. Get really really rich is to just pretend that they're doing something else, and so like that. This is like the the ban in from deal. I think it's just like they just lying. I dont like downplaying it cause. A deafening clicks like sports. Do bad and wants is for there to be no taxes and no welfare state and no regulation of business, but he thinks that's unpopular, unlike Republicans have long had complicated strategy for dealing with the unpopularity of those ideas, but his idea, which I think is better, is to just lie. I there's something to that, but I do think that you know he was. If you go back to November twenty six teen, Tromp had just one bad and was coming in to be white has teeth strategies, the possibilities really seem endless there and he
eyes going around talking about like how he in the White House. Soon was going to infuriate conservatives by putting together a trillion dollar infrastructure spending plan. Rebuilding everything in the country you know it would make those traditional republican conservatives, heads explode but they're going to do this and are going to complete. We build a new political coalition and and rework just just how american politics works, and I think he he did want to do that. That is something that that he thought would have been a good idea, and he just got to the White House and just ran into this complete wall of resist.
Since and also, I think, was perhaps reminded of just how strong the forces within the Republican Party and the republican coalition, who don't want new spending who, would never, in a million years, support a big infrastructure plan who really really want to cut entitlements and and cut Medicaid and so on, and who really really hate. Tax increases, like those are extremely powerful forces in the conservative movement and the Republican Party who have who have been around for decades and You know you can I just I just I don't see the evidence that were so like he said. As you said right, there was like this very spot. She, like I'm gonna, make conservatives had expired and we'll get behind a trillion dollar infrastructure bell
and you say that, like matters once but like multiple times too many, many different outlets Senate Democrats then put together a proposal for a trillion dollar infrastructure Bell and it's not like. Ultimately, that proposal died due to fierce resistance from hard core conservatives Steve Bannon never had them over for meeting yeah like there was no, there was no bright Bart. ever ran a story about how there was this proposal, and maybe it was good, like he didn't, make any effort to do any of these things, and that's why he didn't succeeded. Meanwhile, he's seems to be legitimately trying to get the Danny Turkey elected Senator from Nevada. It's hard to do things in Washington. Impossible to do them. If you doc, try it all yeah it, and I think there was a
strategic decision made in the White House to sort of back the Ryan Mcconnell view of what the ordering of the legislative strategy should be, that they should do healthcare first and then tax cuts in first actually tbd like this was the call made by rents, pre basin and Trump signed onto it in You know, I don't know, maybe ban and could have protested. A little more argued a little better turn that over, but it's not like. He had sole authority to do this kind of thing in the White House and chose not to do it like this was many other factors went into these decisions about what the administration should prioritize by the, but I do think that what he wants to do with the Republican Party. It is maybe less de illogically, coherent, then now than one might think, and is more about sort of
hacking enemies, kind of negatively focused and his bright Barroso is best and ban and as always best when they are attacking someone and when they sort of deemed an enemy, not when they're, trying to prove actively do something, and so he's dames Mcconnell as his top enemy and target for for the next couple years in and he's just going to, as he said, try to make him toxic and so he's just using whatever he can to do. The same and there is some ideological coherence. I think all of the challenger she's going to back are going to be really anti immigration really against it. Any sort of fat deal on to protect the dream yours or anything like that. But that is also an issue that has proven itself again and again to be really really Potan in Republican Pray.
and you sort of have you know, you're making the case and other people have made the case that trumps heresies on economic x and entitlement spending and saw were more important in the primaries. Then a lot of people give credit for. Compare to you know everyone says you what he won the private, because he demagogue on Y know. I was singing aid that the general. Oh, yes, well, that's a totally different wreck question an end and that something that I don't think he's really focused on ah he wants to build his prison in power as a king Baker in the Republican Party, and he wants to destroy the existing leadership of the Republican Party and the way you do that is through primaries and if he ends up if his some of his more far Challenges are successful and they lose in the general election. Then
you know- I don't know if you would necessarily that's problem for the future- that the current objective is to try to embarrass and humiliate Bitch Mcconnell as much as possible the single break October. What's what's the end game of this but to be leaving the house. These days is a huge routine here. Yet from your keys girlfriend who, while it you back your laptop you phone but with trapper that can change at eight years ago, Tracker changed everything with their first tracking device and are they ve done it again? they're all new tracker, pixel ass. If it would take a picture, You never worry about losing your things again. It's the lightest, Bluetooth tracking device on the market, It's the tracker pixel on whatever it is. You tend to lose at keys, wallets, even your cat. I don't have a cat. I was my keys. All the time tat might factor there, it small enough if it on when you misplaced item that has a tractor pixel attached, you just phone and ninety decibel will help you find in seconds. That's like a loud noise, dumb and even as a power
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You did a very good job of describing the sort of banning by Bart. I would say it is a sort of like courage, median approach to politics, which is about friends and enemies more than its about. I don't like high minded ideas, admit Mcconnell. the enemy now bright and immigration is the tool that beats Mitch Mcconnell and different from a different way of looking at politics right because, like Mitya Mcconnell does not have liberal views on immigration, it's possible damage, Mcconnell doesn't have strongly held views on immigration at all, but certainly if, if you are just somebody who is interested in immigration policy, the consumers have one that fight in the republican Party. Right Mitya Mcconnell, is like not doing. Immigration deals he's he's going along, but he's. There is still the Dreamer question, madam sure, but I think,
I mean it gets it covers, as you is like four years algae BT activists were trying to get Democrats to endorse marriage equality and over time they succeeded and having succeeded. They took yes for an answer they didn't use that as a wedge to them like run primary campaigns against people who were late to the party or sea. less than fully sincere or whatever else like that right, they were issue activists who wanted to get the position changed, and then they shook hands and said. Thank you. But its clear that, like there isn't going to be a reconciliation with much more common right, there's no there's no like contract. He can sign on the dotted line like the objective is to win primaries with Anti Mcconnell challengers render Mcconnell toxic, and I don't know what force him into some kind of humiliating retirement or force into step down or or he's up in twenty twenty. So there could be a primary challenge against
you're too, you are, he might just bout right. Yeah say you know, I mean he's been in the sentinel on. It, wouldn't be crazy from its Mcconnell to decide to announce after the twenty eight in mid terms, is it for me. I'm gonna stay leader for the next two years of them. Then we can have a new guy you, after that, rape is shocking, were admittedly these things happen in politics. You isn't he but some question is like to what to what end like what would we be achieved if we added two or three: more TED crews, type troublemakers, increased pressure on Mcconnell to announces retirement like what what happens differently in Amerika. I think a few things would be achieved. One of them would be
that the Republican Party would be more scared of Steve than in and more solicitous of what his concerns and the concerns of bright Bart readers more generally, to the extent that use them he's using that as a weapon against them. So so there there's a purely self interested motivation here, in that, to the extent he successful with these, he will become a more powerful and influential figure within the party that senators so try to keep on their good side in fear of facing a primary challenge from him later So that's wine, then the other thing I think would happen is that american politics would get more negative, more toxic and more cost
intentional the people, their ban in his backing, he's back in them specifically because they are not the types to go along and nicely support. Mitch Mcconnell work Lee, with leadership. They'll be there on the votes when they are needed, and try to do normal, traditional politician things he supporting. Boy who are bomb throwers I ran who will just try to cause all sorts of trouble and stuff like that, so I think that, in a way, what you cheeses, some something that he does one is is to make a more kind of more conflict, more tumult, more kind of chaos within american politics in general. I mean he's not trying to
really build a coalition that will better pass Donald Trump agenda, he's trying to build a coalition that will create a lot of drama ethically yeah. I mean me, it's interesting: do you not think about, like how this is is meant to work. Cried I mean. Is it A famous moment from from the french Revolution, where or one of one of the various convulsions where somebody says like Saturn. The revolution is devouring its children and there's a element of that too conservative politics, where that conservative movement Eaters seem most comfortable with the part of the narrative arc. That's like Ronald Reagan, challenges Gerald Ford in the nineteen seventy six primary nuke Gingrich rebelled against Bob Michel George W Bush two to go against tax increases.
And less comfortable with the part. That's like in the media is present Megan needs to cut some deals on its legislative matters or like as how Speaker New Gingrich, makes some balanced budget agreements with the democratic president and, like I, dont, think that, while Reagan, you, Gingrich suddenly changed their minds are newts case. He just like went back to going being up again. There are once he wasn't speaker anymore, but it's like IQ I in governing rolls were quite I urge you to discharge their responsibilities of office in certain ways that accord with how american institutions function and is not compatible with being a Andy, Establishment Firebrand too, like the majority leader of the state Senate, I would say almost by definition, is not an anti establishment. Firebrand. He's the majority leader of the United States Senate and like he has to form I can
says among his caucus and reach deals with politicians who occupy other pivot points, it doesn't to me like makes sense to envision, like TED crews, acting like tat crews, but holding much MC mission because you just like you can't do that, and maybe this instead balance problem like he's not in governance. He is at an already, as he's like a political consultant and media impresario, but it's a it's a strange vision of political action. It seems to me yeah, and I think one of the story lines of this year that actually been interesting is the house. Freedom. Cock has existed for a while on the far right and they caused all end.
Sort of problems to John Vainer little bit to Paul Ryan when he came in a speaker and they were just constantly throwing things into account, ass, and then this year when things are suddenly Republicans control. The presidency, in both houses of Congress republican legislation actually might pass. They did famously spike. The first version of the health care bill in the house, but then they came around and learned to deal they. They concluded that you know constant raging opposition, which was not the best approach for this political environment. I mean they they ones concessions that help bring them around, but but yes, they were willing to get into more of a governing posturing, make a deal, and you saw that again with and by the end of health care. They were saying like whenever
fifty votes in the Vienna we're going right. I mean they, these scuttled a healthcare bell. Then they made it in which they got real concessions, but like by the and they were saying that they will go along with anything they said they were them when the Senate was struggling to pass anything in there eventually failed struggle in July. I believe Mark Matter said that the house would would be willing to sort of past whenever the Senate did and then- and that just happen on the budget, yeah yeah yeah. Exactly so is the this. Isn't the high stakes thing in the world because the budget is some, doesn't really have the force of law were result in any actual spending because of the way Congresses budgeting process is set up, it doesn't make a ton sense, but basically they the House Freedom Caucus, had been squabbling over.
Certain numbers in this on paper, budget and and whether spending was cut enough in the budget in and they fought a lot within the house. They eventually got, some sort of compromise version that they were happy with it passed. The has the Senate Billy ignored it road, its own budget, past it, and then he went back to the house and the Freedom caucus was happy to sign up to it, and you know this. This is the main purpose of this budget was just to set up a tax reform on these budget reconciliation track so that goal was achieved by them but yeah, then they re a pragmatic way. You're saying, like luck is important, but these other parts, budget say so we're getting go along and not make a big deal about right, like
To me, that makes perfect sense is just very different approach from freedom. Pockets is like think in, like concrete terms, are we getting closer to something that we want? They are so well that four, yet good free right like, but that's like that's quintessential norm, politics, yeah and- and I think there is also a certain element of growing in office. Two. If you go back to the seventies there is, here is a conservative, primary challenges and and conservative trying to push more conservative candidates for a lot of these seats in the Senate and the house and and some of these people who actually won and were the more conservative candidates at the time like one it is now or in hatch. Who is now the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee in and he is, he is not a far right. Bombs are at all. He really wants to pass
This tax bill he's been willing to deal on immigration in the past and he's been in office so long that he's sort of realized, devalue, of actually trying to achieve and accomplished something's rather than you know, just constantly criticising whatever is up for a vote for now. Conservative weight. But it's it's interesting that this trajectory is so long. I mean just flake when he was in the house, was a conservative bomb through our like now, he's like the cock, sell out who's being driven out of the Senate and growing in office. I think, is something whether you think it's growing officer like going native in selling out is something that happens in in all respects, but there's a very particulars, I think, couldn't Republican Party conservative movement specific
back of where, from the seventies forward, there is a constant state of sort of convulsed, wait, and there is no moment where you're saying like yeah like this. This is it like. This is this is what Gotta do it was amazing on and that letter that, banning put together like a like sign on letter from conservative movement leaders and suddenly more guys like Richard Vagary who like happens writing these letters since, like one before you are, I you I could read and its its remarkable that Blake nothing. I don't even want to say nothing is good enough. It just like the position that they enjoy occupying in life. Is this semi outside one? Were there not think they not? Quite there like Wanna, be king makers.
But you really want to make like, like the guy who stands next to the king, like sort of yelling at him rather than the actual king, who has to make decisions and take responsibility for further. and it's it's conducive to balance, but particular style of politics, because not actually governing is a good way to serve cover up the fact that the like the math doesn't add up. on the trillion dollar infrastructure bill, but also the tax cuts. That's all somehow paid for by constructing a wall that Mexico, somebody who will pay for it- and I think one thing that's going on Here- is that the project that is being put forward here that ban and is trying to do to an extent it's about just constant opposition, but also there
If you look at what the Republican Party is now what their coalition is now there really are. You know, establishment elements to it: the Chamber of commerce. There are certainly nothing liberal about them, but there an extremely influential for soon the party that Mitch, Mcconnell and Paul Ryan take very seriously. They represent sort of the main stream interests of business. And so I mean one way I sort of think about what is trying to do. Is that he's just trying to reduce the power of the Chamber of Commerce and and reduce how much you know, republican politicians care about the Chamber of Commerce, compare to how much they care about what bright our readers thank or what Fox news viewers. Think or something like that, like her
once this confrontational opposition, all brand of politics, to have bore sort of firm, more teeth to it, then am then this kind of more establishment sell out keep this is working kind of thing I, but I think we will leave it at that until until the the revolution terms and that the views of weeds listeners eyed the dominant force and in american politics. Thank you, Andrew for being on be here today. I thanks to Peter Leonard Fur, producing the Michel, and we will be back next week with more weeds,
Transcript generated on 2021-09-13.